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Posted: 9/10/2018 6:02:59 PM EDT
[#1]
We have the lot number from OP's photo, but does anyone have any other lot numbers associated with this type of failure?
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Posted: 9/10/2018 6:10:47 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like the photo says 5.56 and Hornady ,but not Frontier . Two differant " brands " of Hornady ammo ? Here is the box with the lot number. He just sent me this picture. He thought it was Frontier.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 6:13:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Ran into a guy at the range who was also having popped primers with his frontier ammo, 55gr FMJs
ETA: DD and BCM factory built uppers/bcg's as well. |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 6:15:44 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Has OP's friend contacted Hornady yet? Who is going to take care of OP's friend Hornady or Federal? |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 6:18:14 PM EDT
[#5]
For clarity, frontier or hornady black?
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Posted: 9/10/2018 6:19:26 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For clarity, frontier or hornady black? |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 6:21:22 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We have the lot number from OP's photo, but does anyone have any other lot numbers associated with this type of failure?  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 6:22:19 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I haven't talked to my friend yet. He is at work , so I am sure he hasn't had time to call. I will post info as soon as I find out. |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 6:25:16 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've got 3 of the 150 round boxes, different lot number. Haven't shot any of it yet, but I've got a range day planned for this Sunday. I'm going to take some and put it through a couple rifles while paying close attention to the spent brass. I'll report back next week. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/421675/1F1AD22F-D155-4F51-8637-4D485995C185-667593.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/421675/25270A79-3762-40A1-AD1A-35D6B504CFF2-667594.JPG How long have you had yours? Any idea if it's older or newer production? |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 6:32:44 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's interesting... I also have the 150 round boxes of 55gr FMJ, but my item number is FR202 and the lot number is a similar format to OP's, not yours. Your label looks very different. How long have you had yours? Any idea if it's older or newer production? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've got 3 of the 150 round boxes, different lot number. Haven't shot any of it yet, but I've got a range day planned for this Sunday. I'm going to take some and put it through a couple rifles while paying close attention to the spent brass. I'll report back next week. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/421675/1F1AD22F-D155-4F51-8637-4D485995C185-667593.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/421675/25270A79-3762-40A1-AD1A-35D6B504CFF2-667594.JPG How long have you had yours? Any idea if it's older or newer production? |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 6:33:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I always like to check fired casings when shooting a new batch of ammo. This is why. I know it is a little paranoid, but it has saved me a few times. |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 6:55:43 PM EDT
[#12]
Was that gun chambered in 556 or 223 Wylde?
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Posted: 9/10/2018 7:03:18 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's when your primer drops out, when it's way overloaded and the pocket stretches out to the point of letting the primer go, maybe that's what he's asking IDK. Punctured primers is what I have run into, and no I didn't notice it until I picked up brass, it eats your firing pin tip, which I have had happen to me. Using CCI 400's. But when you run at max pressure cci 400's are not the primer to use , so my fault. I kept my powder charge the same {a popular load with Hornady 55gr fmj} but switched primers, and with that same load I've never had another puncture. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The only time I've had a blown primer it was very noticeable as I couldn't pull the trigger for the next shot. Primer had made its way under the FCG preventing the trigger from being pulled. Punctured primers is what I have run into, and no I didn't notice it until I picked up brass, it eats your firing pin tip, which I have had happen to me. Using CCI 400's. But when you run at max pressure cci 400's are not the primer to use , so my fault. I kept my powder charge the same {a popular load with Hornady 55gr fmj} but switched primers, and with that same load I've never had another puncture. I have had a squib round in a hand gun and noticed that because it didn't cycle properly. I'm just curious if there are any other tell tale signs than looking at the brass. I'm thinking if ammo is loaded hot enough to blow primers it would be noticeable but IDK. Plus I pretty much shoot suppressed so I don't if that would mask signs of over pressure or not. |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 7:10:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure about production date, just checked my email and it was ordered from Midway on 08/11/2018 Item number FR2015 is not shown on Hornady's website, so I wonder if it's a special run for large retailers like Midway. It could also be their newest form of labeling and packaging. I'll try to remember to check the item number at Cabela's the next time I am there. |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 7:12:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was that gun chambered in 556 or 223 Wylde? |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 7:16:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Check the headspace.
Even if a "GO" gauge fits if it is very tight fit you can have pressure/chambering issues. BTDT twice in the last 10 or 12 years. Grabbed several AR15's, took the bolts apart, checked headspace, swapped the loosest fit bolt for the tight one and no issues after that. A bolt can "close" on a GO gauge. The last one I built the bolt would close. You could feel it grating/dragging as the bolt turned, but it would close/turn. On the other AR15's I had a couple bolts that I could easily close on the GO gauge and even wiggle the bolt tale back and forth a little bit - but the NO GO gauge would not begin to fit in. So, one AR15 ends up with a bolt to extension fit a little looser than it was (but still well in spec) and the other ends up with the bolt to extension fit a little tighter than it was (but still well in spec) and the rifles/carbines work/shoot fine with no high pressure signs. I can't tell you just how many thousandths of an inch either one changed, but I can tell you both now work without the issues they had. So, it doesn't take a lot of change, sometimes. Back to get out the headspace gauges and check it out. edited to add - Yes, the first time the carbine was blowing primers out, leaving empty cases in the chamber, not chambering/bolt closing on some rounds and the reloads I was using were my "ancient" recipe that has worked just fine in thirteen (13) other AR15's I own or have built as gifts for my sons/wife. After the bolt swap they work just fine in that problem carbine. Have for 6 or 8 years now. |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 7:32:58 PM EDT
[#17]
Almost bought a 500 round box of the Frontier M193 this weekend for $150 but decided not to due to the sales tax, knew I could do better with a free shipping deal online... Seems as though I chose well. Wondering about the 200 rounds of Frontier 5.56, 75g I bought a few weeks ago now though.
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Posted: 9/10/2018 7:37:59 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was thinking the same thing. get a close up of the powder grains maybe we can identify what they used and how much. |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 7:41:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP any chance you can get hold of a few round like 5 and break them down and weigh the powder load? get a close up of the powder grains maybe we can identify what they used and how much. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I was thinking the same thing. get a close up of the powder grains maybe we can identify what they used and how much. |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 7:42:11 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was asking about blown primers as shown in the OP's picture. I have had a squib round in a hand gun and noticed that because it didn't cycle properly. I'm just curious if there are any other tell tale signs than looking at the brass. I'm thinking if ammo is loaded hot enough to blow primers it would be noticeable but IDK. Plus I pretty much shoot suppressed so I don't if that would mask signs of over pressure or not. That said, in a pistol you're building pressure much faster than you are in a rifle. I've never actually seen a pistol blow a primer (I don't shoot a lot of pistols either); I would imagine that's because there's a much finer line between "really hot load" and "blow the gun up" in a semi-auto handgun. |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 8:04:19 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will ask my friend to send me a picture of a pulled round and powder. I have no idea if he has scales to weigh it. This may take a day or so to get the info. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I was thinking the same thing. get a close up of the powder grains maybe we can identify what they used and how much. 
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Posted: 9/10/2018 8:12:39 PM EDT
[#22]
Tagging for Hornady's response!
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Posted: 9/10/2018 8:23:57 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I always like to check fired casings when shooting a new batch of ammo. This is why. I know it is a little paranoid, but it has saved me a few times. |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 8:28:42 PM EDT
[#24]
5.56 in a .223 maybe? Borderline over pressure for a 5.56 could just be too much for the .223?
Just spitballing here. |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 8:31:51 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
5.56 in a .223 maybe? Borderline over pressure for a 5.56 could just be too much for the .223? Just spitballing here. |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 9:48:44 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If he doesn't and he's in the DFW area I've got a scale that's never been used. About the time I was getting ready to start reloading ammo prices dropped |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 9:54:36 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In before it's because piston guns "shit where they eat." |
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Posted: 9/11/2018 2:39:01 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As someone who's never experienced a blown primer....Is it something that is noticeable while shooting without inspecting the brass? Other than when you kaboom the gun. |
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Posted: 9/11/2018 11:32:54 PM EDT
[#29]
My friend hasn't contacted Hornady yet. He has finally got the upper off the lower.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 9/11/2018 11:43:13 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 9/12/2018 12:47:04 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryDamn, that bolt carrier just totally came apart. Wow. |
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Posted: 9/12/2018 12:54:03 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Check the headspace. Even if a "GO" gauge fits if it is very tight fit you can have pressure/chambering issues. BTDT twice in the last 10 or 12 years. Grabbed several AR15's, took the bolts apart, checked headspace, swapped the loosest fit bolt for the tight one and no issues after that. A bolt can "close" on a GO gauge. The last one I built the bolt would close. You could feel it grating/dragging as the bolt turned, but it would close/turn. On the other AR15's I had a couple bolts that I could easily close on the GO gauge and even wiggle the bolt tale back and forth a little bit - but the NO GO gauge would not begin to fit in. So, one AR15 ends up with a bolt to extension fit a little looser than it was (but still well in spec) and the other ends up with the bolt to extension fit a little tighter than it was (but still well in spec) and the rifles/carbines work/shoot fine with no high pressure signs. I can't tell you just how many thousandths of an inch either one changed, but I can tell you both now work without the issues they had. So, it doesn't take a lot of change, sometimes. Back to get out the headspace gauges and check it out. edited to add - Yes, the first time the carbine was blowing primers out, leaving empty cases in the chamber, not chambering/bolt closing on some rounds and the reloads I was using were my "ancient" recipe that has worked just fine in thirteen (13) other AR15's I own or have built as gifts for my sons/wife. After the bolt swap they work just fine in that problem carbine. Have for 6 or 8 years now. |
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Posted: 9/12/2018 1:00:25 AM EDT
[#33]
It was a nice gun!
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Posted: 9/12/2018 1:21:18 AM EDT
[#34]
WOW bolt is still fully locked.
He can rule out out of battery bang. 
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Posted: 9/12/2018 7:23:01 AM EDT
[#35]
Was the BCG staked?
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Posted: 9/12/2018 7:46:47 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was the BCG staked? |
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Posted: 9/12/2018 8:53:51 AM EDT
[#37]
Without knowing what the burn characteristics of the powder are, weighing the powder load will not tell you anything. A number of years ago, a friend mistakenly loaded 2400 instead of 4198 in a 7mm TCU, the results were impressive. Fortunately the Thompson Center Contender is a VERY strong firearm, but he did stretch the frame.
Commercial manufacturers do not use the same powders that we can normally purchase from our suppliers. They purchase to a general spec and test the powder prior to establishing a load. |
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Posted: 9/12/2018 9:20:22 AM EDT
[#38]
Cant help but notice that appears to be an SBR with a pistol gas located gas port distance. Not saying it's not the ammo - but the cycle timing of that gun is going to be a bit different than typical - might be a factor?
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Posted: 9/12/2018 9:39:54 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cant help but notice that appears to be an SBR with a pistol gas located gas port distance. Not saying it's not the ammo - but the cycle timing of that gun is going to be a bit different than typical - might be a factor? |
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Posted: 9/12/2018 11:06:34 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please explain in as much detail as possible how a tight headspace causes pressure to spike. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Check the headspace. Even if a "GO" gauge fits if it is very tight fit you can have pressure/chambering issues. BTDT twice in the last 10 or 12 years. Grabbed several AR15's, took the bolts apart, checked headspace, swapped the loosest fit bolt for the tight one and no issues after that. A bolt can "close" on a GO gauge. The last one I built the bolt would close. You could feel it grating/dragging as the bolt turned, but it would close/turn. On the other AR15's I had a couple bolts that I could easily close on the GO gauge and even wiggle the bolt tale back and forth a little bit - but the NO GO gauge would not begin to fit in. So, one AR15 ends up with a bolt to extension fit a little looser than it was (but still well in spec) and the other ends up with the bolt to extension fit a little tighter than it was (but still well in spec) and the rifles/carbines work/shoot fine with no high pressure signs. I can't tell you just how many thousandths of an inch either one changed, but I can tell you both now work without the issues they had. So, it doesn't take a lot of change, sometimes. Back to get out the headspace gauges and check it out. edited to add - Yes, the first time the carbine was blowing primers out, leaving empty cases in the chamber, not chambering/bolt closing on some rounds and the reloads I was using were my "ancient" recipe that has worked just fine in thirteen (13) other AR15's I own or have built as gifts for my sons/wife. After the bolt swap they work just fine in that problem carbine. Have for 6 or 8 years now. |
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Posted: 9/12/2018 11:09:52 AM EDT
[#41]
With the new pictures, seeing the bolt locked in place, damn impressive! Looks like the round may have been 1/2 full of C-4.
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Posted: 9/12/2018 11:51:58 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is a piston POF. The bolt carrier is one peice. |
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Posted: 9/12/2018 11:56:15 AM EDT
[#43]
There are labs that can test the remaining rounds in pressure barrels to measure peak chamber pressure.
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Posted: 9/12/2018 12:06:58 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My friend hasn't contacted Hornady yet. He has finally got the upper off the lower. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/126115/558415072-668911.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/126115/IMG_5705-668921.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/126115/IMG_5710-668923.JPG More pictures 
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Posted: 9/12/2018 12:22:08 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote History |
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Posted: 9/12/2018 12:24:50 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With the new pictures, seeing the bolt locked in place, damn impressive! Looks like the round may have been 1/2 full of C-4. |
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Posted: 9/12/2018 12:39:32 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its interesting also because I've chronoed this load and its noticeably slower than IMI, PPU and LC M193. I've had zero issues with the 62gr SP, 55gr FMJ and 75gr T2 5.56 loadings. In fact, they're all fairly slow for 5.56 loads. My 75gr handloads are faster than their T2 and I'm not even close to max loads (24gr Ramshot TAC). I've got several hundred of the 75gr for a rainy day. I'll have to shoot 5 from each box over a chrono to verify pressure  It's actually a fairly simple calculus problem, area under the curve for the duration that the bullet is in the barrel. |
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Posted: 9/12/2018 12:48:13 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No it's not. At least not anymore. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It is a piston POF. The bolt carrier is one peice. |
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Posted: 9/12/2018 3:19:19 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You may be correct. I may be thinking of another piston gun. 
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Posted: 9/12/2018 3:59:45 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm talking about this gun in particular. |
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