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Posted: 6/27/2024 10:32:55 AM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alex_F: We've fooled with these and they can be very handy but if you have access to real PDWs they take a backseat quickly. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alex_F: Originally Posted By bcw107: Seems like PCC/braced pistols has become synonymous with PDW. Not a knock. I have a bunch. I like them. We've fooled with these and they can be very handy but if you have access to real PDWs they take a backseat quickly. What makes these not a "PDW" type weapon? |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/27/2024 10:37:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: manowar669]
[#2]
Anybody have a DBX 57? I think 3lbs, 1" thick, 8" barrel. They've been around for years.
Palmetto's X57 looks great too. Whenever it becomes available. 
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Posted: 6/27/2024 11:12:54 AM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74novaman: So, a general thought experiment on pdws…. I’m driving 400+ miles each way on a road trip next week with my boys. Staying both at hotels and with family. Going to be gone from home for a week. I already have my answer, but thought this might help people in the decision making phase of which pdw to get…which one would you be taking on that trip, the raider or the rattler? https://i.imgur.com/jGyYT5Z.jpeg My guess is the Flux Raider as it’s much easier & more discrete to transport, considering all of the moving of luggage, etc. that you and your family will be doing for that week. It’s also easier to keep with you at all times if possible or placed inside a safe within the vehicle if needed. Would love to hear your detailed reasons, though. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 12:05:52 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alacran: Please keep bumping this thread to the 2024 election. You have no idea how important this will become. https://www.thefirearmblog.com/media/2024/05/19/14597437/b-t-usw-g17-conversion-kit-for-the-glock-17-19.jpg?size=720x845&nocrop=1 Who make that? |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 12:07:19 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cyclone: What makes these not a "PDW" type weapon? They're not automatic? |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 12:14:41 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alex_F: They're not automatic? Tell me you were too lazy to read the OP without telling me. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 12:17:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: Alex_F]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74novaman: Tell me you were too lazy to read the OP without telling me. I read the OP, I'm not sure what the fuck you're trying to get across here. You asked a question, I answered. What is your point, or are you just trolling? /edit sorry, HE asked a question, you came in to white knight for him or something |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 12:26:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 74novaman]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alex_F: I read the OP, I'm not sure what the fuck you're trying to get across here. You asked a question, I answered. What is your point, or are you just trolling? /edit sorry, HE asked a question, you came in to white knight for him or something Not white knighting. The thread is about civilian pdws. If you have full auto, great. Most people dont, but the concept is a useful frame work to talk about upgraded carry options past a handgun when shit is spicy for civilians. Which you would have understand if you read literally any part of this thread before chiming in on page 8 to whine about terminology. “Its not a pdw unless its full auto” was adressed repeatedly already. You’re welcome to believe that. This thread probably isn’t for you then. I’m not trolling my own thread, but you certainly seem incapable of engaging civilly in it. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 12:28:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: cyclone]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alex_F: They're not automatic? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alex_F: Originally Posted By cyclone: What makes these not a "PDW" type weapon? They're not automatic? Does it need to be? |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 12:33:45 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By steviesterno16: @rDigital I carry my rattler in my kid's old backpack from when he was in kindergarten. It's not out of place at all stuffed under his seat in the minivan or slogging through hotel lobbies, as who hasn't seen a slightly grumpy chubby dad sick of carrying his kid's shit around?  part of the reason I like Flux and Rattlers. Many "discreet" bags don't look discreet at all to anyone paying the least bit of attention. The race car themed baby bag is actual grey man in my context. baby bag is hard to beat! |
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USA
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Posted: 6/27/2024 12:43:46 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cyclone: What makes these not a "PDW" type weapon? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cyclone: Originally Posted By Alex_F: Originally Posted By bcw107: Seems like PCC/braced pistols has become synonymous with PDW. Not a knock. I have a bunch. I like them. We've fooled with these and they can be very handy but if you have access to real PDWs they take a backseat quickly. What makes these not a "PDW" type weapon? The definition of the original military term was broad enough, technology has progressed far enough, and the civilian use case is limited enough that the term tends to be applied to anything smaller than "my carbine". A gun with the magazine in the pistol grip necessitates a pistol caliber. It will be lighter and smaller in every dimension at the expense of per/shot wounding effect and effective range. It can be plausibly concealed under a loose shirt from casual observation for at least short term and carried in a much smaller bag, or take up less room in a bag with work items in it. It amplifies whatever capability your CCW pistol would provide up to and somewhat beyond normal handgun ranges. A rifle caliber weapon is a lot heavier and larger in every dimension. Even casual concealment is much more difficult and they require a significantly larger and heavier duty bag. In return you get rifle level wounding and more range. It comes down to how you parse the threat and what you place more weight upon. If your perception of threat goes from daily CCW level to essentially open ideological warfare/banditry you might not see any use for anything less than a rifle that is handy enough. OTOH if you think the threat level will increase and may spike briefly but still require engaging in daily life and its associated errands under color of law then you may see a mission for a pistol based solution to augment your CCW. IMO that seems to be the disconnect in approaches. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 12:56:34 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aftac: Who make that? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aftac: Originally Posted By Alacran: Please keep bumping this thread to the 2024 election. You have no idea how important this will become. https://www.thefirearmblog.com/media/2024/05/19/14597437/b-t-usw-g17-conversion-kit-for-the-glock-17-19.jpg?size=720x845&nocrop=1 Who make that? B&T supports various platforms which obviously include Glock…  Make Your Glock ROCK! | B&T USW-G A brace version…  B&T USW-G17 update video |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 1:00:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: Alex_F]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74novaman: Not white knighting. The thread is about civilian pdws. If you have full auto, great. Most people dont, but the concept is a useful frame work to talk about upgraded carry options past a handgun when shit is spicy for civilians. Which you would have understand if you read literally any part of this thread before chiming in on page 8 to whine about terminology. “Its not a pdw unless its full auto” was adressed repeatedly already. You’re welcome to believe that. This thread probably isn’t for you then. I’m not trolling my own thread, but you certainly seem incapable of engaging civilly in it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74novaman: Not white knighting. The thread is about civilian pdws. If you have full auto, great. Most people dont, but the concept is a useful frame work to talk about upgraded carry options past a handgun when shit is spicy for civilians. Which you would have understand if you read literally any part of this thread before chiming in on page 8 to whine about terminology. “Its not a pdw unless its full auto” was adressed repeatedly already. You’re welcome to believe that. This thread probably isn’t for you then. I’m not trolling my own thread, but you certainly seem incapable of engaging civilly in it. My post was along the lines of "these are neat but are quickly eclipsed by real PDWs". I'm not sure how that's trolling, or even a non-reasonable post. I don't know why there are multiple posts now bitching about it and saying "I SAID I KNOW THEY'RE NOT REAL PDWS". No fucking shit they're not. My first response was civil and to the point. These posts are not reasonable and are pointless (yours, not mine, I'm merely responding to you). /edit to add: My initial post was on page 7, I read the first post and not the rest because I read THE FIRST POST AND RESPONDED TO THE FIRST POST, not the next 6 pages. Originally Posted By cyclone: Does it need to be? 
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Posted: 6/27/2024 1:05:42 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alex_F: My first response was civil and to the point. These posts are not reasonable and are pointless (yours,] Okay. Thanks for stopping by the thread and sharing your valuable, helpful and never posted before insights. Much appreciated! |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 1:06:01 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By feudist: Good question. The definition of the original military term was broad enough, technology has progressed far enough, and the civilian use case is limited enough that the term tends to be applied to anything smaller than "my carbine". A gun with the magazine in the pistol grip necessitates a pistol caliber. It will be lighter and smaller in every dimension at the expense of per/shot wounding effect and effective range. It can be plausibly concealed under a loose shirt from casual observation for at least short term and carried in a much smaller bag, or take up less room in a bag with work items in it. It amplifies whatever capability your CCW pistol would provide up to and somewhat beyond normal handgun ranges. A rifle caliber weapon is a lot heavier and larger in every dimension. Even casual concealment is much more difficult and they require a significantly larger and heavier duty bag. In return you get rifle level wounding and more range. It comes down to how you parse the threat and what you place more weight upon. If your perception of threat goes from daily CCW level to essentially open ideological warfare/banditry you might not see any use for anything less than a rifle that is handy enough. OTOH if you think the threat level will increase and may spike briefly but still require engaging in daily life and its associated errands under color of law then you may see a mission for a pistol based solution to augment your CCW. IMO that seems to be the disconnect in approaches. I'll just add (in concurrence with Alex_F), I have never liked the additional weight and size that PC PDWs brought to the table (MP5, et al.) if they weren't full auto. In my mind, it never made any sense. With the very hi-cap, smaller pistols of today, the pistol chassis completely throws the above option out the window. If you don't need to beef up components to increase durability in full auto, it only makes sense to be as small and light as possible, with pistol calibers. Again, in my mind. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 1:06:14 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74novaman: Okay. Thanks for stopping by the thread and sharing your valuable, helpful and never posted before insights. Much appreciated! You are extremely welcome, mister sarcasm. click |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 1:09:25 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74novaman: Damn thats crazy small. I didnt think I wanted a 365 flux but with that size comparison and the hilarious flux marketing I may reconsider…. For real though. I don't need one, but the size of that thing is awesome. Think of all the places it would fit! |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 6/27/2024 1:21:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: PaladinM1911]
[#18]
Just finished my "Surf" retro pistol.
  80's PDW. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 1:28:43 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tortilla-flats: I have never liked the additional weight and size that PC PDWs brought to the table (MP5, et al.) if they weren't full auto. In my mind, it never made any sense. I understand why this line of thought exists, especially if you only view pdws as a historical military concept. But go view the scores of any uspsa match where decent ppc shooters outperform outstanding pistol shooters. Take your wife or gf to the range and see what she makes better hits with. Ask yourself if an AR-15 doesn’t make sense if its not full auto. Consider if you’d have an easier time moving around cops without hassle in a natural disaster situation with a concealed semi auto pdw or an openly carried rifle. I think the pdw concept even sans full auto makes sense, given that context. Ymmv. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 6/27/2024 1:58:53 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By manowar669: Anybody have a DBX 57? I think 3lbs, 1" thick, 8" barrel. They've been around for years. https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.KQQIR6yU6ape2XCTx_-TDQHaEK?rs=1&pid=ImgDetMain I've had one for awhile. I haven't shot a ton of rounds through it but the size, weight, and AR-familiar controls are all pretty great. My only real gripe is the stupid back-angled mags due to using existing format pistol mags, but that's an aesthetic issue on my part. At the size and weight it makes a pretty great travel package IMO. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 2:22:26 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74novaman: Consider if you’d have an easier time moving around cops without hassle in a natural disaster situation with a concealed semi auto pdw or an openly carried rifle. This is a great point in the Rattler vs Flux debate. Following a natural disaster qualifies as increased spiciness for me so it would be Rattler all day. Taking the wife for a weekend trip to Asheville in our "current" climate, I'd feel just fine with the Flux. (If I had one )
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Posted: 6/27/2024 2:27:16 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kersty52: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/320626/IMG_3806_jpeg-3243106.JPG Just waiting to get my Omega 9k… @kersty52 Can you post a photo of the other side? I wanna see how you mounted the tap switch. Need a light for my SBR 3+ but wasn’t sure how to put it to work |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 2:35:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: cyclone]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tortilla-flats: From my POV, that sums it up pretty good. I'll just add (in concurrence with Alex_F), I have never liked the additional weight and size that PC PDWs brought to the table (MP5, et al.) if they weren't full auto. In my mind, it never made any sense. With the very hi-cap, smaller pistols of today, the pistol chassis completely throws the above option out the window. If you don't need to beef up components to increase durability in full auto, it only makes sense to be as small and light as possible, with pistol calibers. Again, in my mind. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tortilla-flats: Originally Posted By feudist: Good question. The definition of the original military term was broad enough, technology has progressed far enough, and the civilian use case is limited enough that the term tends to be applied to anything smaller than "my carbine". A gun with the magazine in the pistol grip necessitates a pistol caliber. It will be lighter and smaller in every dimension at the expense of per/shot wounding effect and effective range. It can be plausibly concealed under a loose shirt from casual observation for at least short term and carried in a much smaller bag, or take up less room in a bag with work items in it. It amplifies whatever capability your CCW pistol would provide up to and somewhat beyond normal handgun ranges. A rifle caliber weapon is a lot heavier and larger in every dimension. Even casual concealment is much more difficult and they require a significantly larger and heavier duty bag. In return you get rifle level wounding and more range. It comes down to how you parse the threat and what you place more weight upon. If your perception of threat goes from daily CCW level to essentially open ideological warfare/banditry you might not see any use for anything less than a rifle that is handy enough. OTOH if you think the threat level will increase and may spike briefly but still require engaging in daily life and its associated errands under color of law then you may see a mission for a pistol based solution to augment your CCW. IMO that seems to be the disconnect in approaches. I'll just add (in concurrence with Alex_F), I have never liked the additional weight and size that PC PDWs brought to the table (MP5, et al.) if they weren't full auto. In my mind, it never made any sense. With the very hi-cap, smaller pistols of today, the pistol chassis completely throws the above option out the window. If you don't need to beef up components to increase durability in full auto, it only makes sense to be as small and light as possible, with pistol calibers. Again, in my mind. I see your point, but I think these types of firearms as well as others like the PSA X57, at least to me, qualify as a "personal" defense weapon. Since not many of us have or can afford an F/A weapon, these fit a requirement. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 2:37:41 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aftac: Who make that? B&T, and yes its awesome. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 2:42:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: tortilla-flats]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74novaman: I understand why this line of thought exists, especially if you only view pdws as a historical military concept. But go view the scores of any uspsa match where decent ppc shooters outperform outstanding pistol shooters. Take your wife or gf to the range and see what she makes better hits with. Ask yourself if an AR-15 doesn't make sense if its not full auto. Consider if you'd have an easier time moving around cops without hassle in a natural disaster situation with a concealed semi auto pdw or an openly carried rifle. I think the pdw concept even sans full auto makes sense, given that context. Ymmv. Are we talking competition or defense? I'm not arguing that 2 points of contact are better than 3 points of contact. I'm also not arguing that pistol caliber platforms are better than rifle caliber platforms. Those are your strawmen, not mine. My point is that platforms that are sized for rifle calibers but shoot pistol calibers, don't make sense in the semi-auto context. To me. My point also was the pistol chassis make a whole lot more sense then PC PDWs like the MP5, APC9, et al. ETA: I own two AR9s. One is a PCC comp gun. The other is, arguably, a waste of money. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 2:47:57 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tortilla-flats: Are we talking competition or defense? I'm not arguing that 2 points of contact are better than 3 points of contact. I'm also not arguing that pistol caliber platforms are better than rifle caliber platforms. Those are your strawmen, not mine. My point is that platforms that are sized for rifle calibers but shoot pistol calibers, don't make sense in the semi-auto context. To me. My point also was the pistol chassis make a whole lot more sense then PC PDWs like the MP5, APPC9, et al. That makes sense. A PDW sized weapon probably/should be mag fed through the grip. Not saying you dudes with mp5K sized guns don't have PDW's, but they're not in the same class as a raider, b&t etc. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 2:47:58 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cyclone: I see your point, but I think these types of firearms as well as others like the PSA X57, at least to me, qualify as a "personal" defense weapon. Since not many of us have or can afford an F/A weapon, these fit a requirement. ^^^ That's called a "hot sports opinion" around here. 
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IL, USA
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Posted: 6/27/2024 5:49:01 PM EST
[#28]
I think a 5.7 in a chassis would be "close" to a PDW if we are talking handguns in chassis. Or maybe someone is rocking some very particular ammo.
Full auto aside, the other "requirements" of a PDW are bottleneck rounds that can penetrate soft armor. Chassis are more akin to subguns, but it really all blurs together. I think 10mm in a chassis makes more sense than 9mm. Basically something with a bit more ass. 3 points of contact will help control recoil. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 6:15:47 PM EST
[#29]
And to clarify, I'm not interested in trying to define a PDW.
I'm more interested in identifying a firearm(s) for the OP's scenario(s). |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 9:02:02 PM EST
[#30]
Here's another option. 11.5" 5.56; 7lbs 2.5oz w/suppressor. Goes together in less than 1 minute.
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Posted: 6/27/2024 10:23:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: kersty52]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Amped: @kersty52 Can you post a photo of the other side? I wanna see how you mounted the tap switch. Need a light for my SBR 3+ but wasn’t sure how to put it to work Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Amped: Originally Posted By kersty52: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/320626/IMG_3806_jpeg-3243106.JPG Just waiting to get my Omega 9k… @kersty52 Can you post a photo of the other side? I wanna see how you mounted the tap switch. Need a light for my SBR 3+ but wasn’t sure how to put it to work @Amped No problem  Attached FileCloud Defensive LCS |
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Posted: 6/28/2024 6:07:41 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By panthermark: I think a 5.7 in a chassis would be "close" to a PDW if we are talking handguns in chassis. Or maybe someone is rocking some very particular ammo. Full auto aside, the other "requirements" of a PDW are bottleneck rounds that can penetrate soft armor. Chassis are more akin to subguns, but it really all blurs together. I think 10mm in a chassis makes more sense than 9mm. Basically something with a bit more ass. 3 points of contact will help control recoil. The S&W 5.7 is an interesting piece. Locking barrel, optics ready, threaded. A chassis and 30 rd. mags for it would be pretty hard to not buy. |
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Posted: 6/28/2024 6:50:08 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lokifox: The S&W 5.7 is an interesting piece. Locking barrel, optics ready, threaded. A chassis and 30 rd. mags for it would be pretty hard to not buy. This is what I would like to see |
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Posted: 6/28/2024 6:52:32 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kersty52: @Amped No problem https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/320626/IMG_4813_jpeg-3252485.JPG Cloud Defensive LCS @kersty52 thank you fine sir |
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Posted: 6/28/2024 8:18:28 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alacran: My guess is the Flux Raider as it’s much easier & more discrete to transport, considering all of the moving of luggage, etc. that you and your family will be doing for that week. It’s also easier to keep with you at all times if possible or placed inside a safe within the vehicle if needed. Would love to hear your detailed reasons, though. Thats a good reason to roll with the raider. I’m taking the rattler, even though it is slightly more of a pita to transport. 400+ miles from home if I need something other than my carry gun I want a rifle. Another factor is wife is staying home and working so its just me and the boys. If she was coming I’d probably go raider because its easier for her to handle and as you mentioned, my luggage load would increase by about 3x if she was with us.
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Posted: 6/28/2024 8:42:14 AM EST
[#36]
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Posted: 6/28/2024 8:45:03 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lokifox: The S&W 5.7 is an interesting piece. Locking barrel, optics ready, threaded. A chassis and 30 rd. mags for it would be pretty hard to not buy. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lokifox: Originally Posted By panthermark: I think a 5.7 in a chassis would be "close" to a PDW if we are talking handguns in chassis. Or maybe someone is rocking some very particular ammo. Full auto aside, the other "requirements" of a PDW are bottleneck rounds that can penetrate soft armor. Chassis are more akin to subguns, but it really all blurs together. I think 10mm in a chassis makes more sense than 9mm. Basically something with a bit more ass. 3 points of contact will help control recoil. The S&W 5.7 is an interesting piece. Locking barrel, optics ready, threaded. A chassis and 30 rd. mags for it would be pretty hard to not buy. Wasn’t the S&W 5.7 the one having issues with baffle strikes, due to another part of the gun being threaded instead of the actual barrel? |
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Posted: 6/28/2024 9:21:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: lokifox]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94: Wasn’t the S&W 5.7 the one having issues with baffle strikes, due to another part of the gun being threaded instead of the actual barrel? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94: Originally Posted By lokifox: Originally Posted By panthermark: I think a 5.7 in a chassis would be "close" to a PDW if we are talking handguns in chassis. Or maybe someone is rocking some very particular ammo. Full auto aside, the other "requirements" of a PDW are bottleneck rounds that can penetrate soft armor. Chassis are more akin to subguns, but it really all blurs together. I think 10mm in a chassis makes more sense than 9mm. Basically something with a bit more ass. 3 points of contact will help control recoil. The S&W 5.7 is an interesting piece. Locking barrel, optics ready, threaded. A chassis and 30 rd. mags for it would be pretty hard to not buy. Wasn’t the S&W 5.7 the one having issues with baffle strikes, due to another part of the gun being threaded instead of the actual barrel? Yep. The barrel sleeve is the threaded part. I run a 9mm can on mine to eliminate the risk. Dang thing has been good to go so far. Actually need to get it out and shoot it again. I put a Ping Ping special EPS Carry MRS on it. ETA - Would have rather put Trijicon on it but they don't sell anything in the correct footprint. |
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Posted: 6/28/2024 10:16:17 AM EST
[#39]
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Posted: 6/28/2024 11:08:17 AM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sabre331: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/31920/IMG_2561_jpeg-3252735.JPG Ooh very nice. Never liked the big floppy braces they had on those originally. Been wanting to get a Strongarm Brace since they came out, but never have for whatever reason. 
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Posted: 6/28/2024 11:32:26 AM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74novaman: Thats a good reason to roll with the raider. I’m taking the rattler, even though it is slightly more of a pita to transport. 400+ miles from home if I need something other than my carry gun I want a rifle. Another factor is wife is staying home and working so its just me and the boys. If she was coming I’d probably go raider because its easier for her to handle and as you mentioned, my luggage load would increase by about 3x if she was with us. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74novaman: Originally Posted By Alacran: My guess is the Flux Raider as it’s much easier & more discrete to transport, considering all of the moving of luggage, etc. that you and your family will be doing for that week. It’s also easier to keep with you at all times if possible or placed inside a safe within the vehicle if needed. Would love to hear your detailed reasons, though. Thats a good reason to roll with the raider. I’m taking the rattler, even though it is slightly more of a pita to transport. 400+ miles from home if I need something other than my carry gun I want a rifle. Another factor is wife is staying home and working so its just me and the boys. If she was coming I’d probably go raider because its easier for her to handle and as you mentioned, my luggage load would increase by about 3x if she was with us. I have to admit that even in my own experience, planning for a trip that lasts a few days is one thing but one that stretches out for a week or more is quite another. My planning & preparations do go up another level. On a personal level and on a world level, a lot can happen within a week. Yep, I absolutely guessed poorly here but it was still a fun thought exercise. |
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Posted: 6/28/2024 3:43:30 PM EST
[#42]
Shot the 365 Raider today. For how small it was, it shot really well and I was able to print really small groups quickly. Shot a scorpion, mpx 9mm, MCX 300bo and flux Glock at the same session. All of them shot softer, obviously, but the 365 wasn’t angry or tough to shoot. Wasn’t even that gassy.
I’m thinking I’ll build it out and put it in the “real” rotation. |
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Posted: 6/28/2024 4:01:51 PM EST
[#43]
Awesome! Thanks for the feedback!
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Posted: 6/29/2024 5:44:12 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74novaman: So, a general thought experiment on pdws…. I’m driving 400+ miles each way on a road trip next week with my boys. Staying both at hotels and with family. Going to be gone from home for a week. I already have my answer, but thought this might help people in the decision making phase of which pdw to get…which one would you be taking on that trip, the raider or the rattler? https://i.imgur.com/jGyYT5Z.jpeg Literally just got back from the FL Keys trip, a nice 11.5 hour drive! We had some initial transportation issues as my wife's Cherokee Trailhawk's transfer case went out about 100 miles from the house which created some logistics issues We used my truck to tow her Woolly Bear trailer. After we unload, I'll take some picks, but anything over 100 miles and/overnight, I take an AR or AK pistol. This trip was my AR15 travel pistol, P365X, and a LCP Max. The little .380 made all the paddle board and kayak adventures...and we did several tight mangrove adventures My threat assessment was low for the destination, but the travel distance and route is what my concerns are. Having a discreet bag makes transferring much easier when having to take an Uber to get my truck, head back to the dealership to pick up the trailer, stay at a hotel (with a shit ton of K9 cops from all over the nation), visit the dealership to pick up the rest of the gear from my wife's car before hitting the road. Discreet carry was a critical factor. ROCK6 |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 2:05:43 PM EST
[#45]
PDWs! I’ll play!
This is my grey man setup in my vehicle for my everyday commute and short trips to a larger, more violent city. I’m not realistically going to wear my full battle rattle, Level 4 plate carrier, battle belt, and AR in any possible scenarios that I think could happen in my area of operations (AO). I believe the local deputies would probably shoot first and ask questions later if they saw me wearing all that. I’ve chosen to keep a simple, lightweight setup in a secure armored area that I can open with the click of a button in the back of my vehicle. It would take time and a metal saw to access it otherwise. My normal everyday carry is a G43X MOS with three 15-round mags. My grab-and-go grey man setup includes a racket bag and a small sling bag, which is all anyone would see walking down the street. They contain a PS90 with the latest generation illuminated ring sight, seven mags (350 rounds) and an M&P 5.7 with four mags (89 rounds). The 5.7x28mm ammo is a mix of mags loaded with SS192, SS197, SS198, T6B, and Vanguard Fangs. I plan to test the new CD ammo that’s showing promise when I can get my hands on some. 2 smoke grenades One everyday armor t-shirt with Level 3A panels (front and back)—better than nothing Normal bag contents: earplugs, multitool, boo-boo kit with 2 tourniquets, clot gauze, 2 chest seals, a small emergency bag of water, light stick, gun oil wipes and a pull-through, and extra batteries I’m always alone during my commute, so I wanted a setup that is very light and gives my weapons 485 rounds of endurance. I think on the slim chance I’ll ever need it, it will be useful to help me escape a trouble spot and deter anyone chasing me.     
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Posted: 6/30/2024 2:21:47 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By clickclickBOOM: PDWs! I’ll play! This is my grey man setup in my vehicle for my everyday commute and short trips to a larger, more violent city. I’m not realistically going to wear my full battle rattle, Level 4 plate carrier, battle belt, and AR in any possible scenarios that I think could happen in my area of operations (AO). I believe the local deputies would probably shoot first and ask questions later if they saw me wearing all that. I’ve chosen to keep a simple, lightweight setup in a secure armored area that I can open with the click of a button in the back of my vehicle. It would take time and a metal saw to access it otherwise. My normal everyday carry is a G43X MOS with three 15-round mags. My grab-and-go grey man setup includes a racket bag and a small sling bag, which is all anyone would see walking down the street. They contain a PS90 with the latest generation illuminated ring sight, seven mags (350 rounds) and an M&P 5.7 with four mags (89 rounds). The 5.7x28mm ammo is a mix of mags loaded with SS192, SS197, SS198, T6B, and Vanguard Fangs. I plan to test the new CD ammo that’s showing promise when I can get my hands on some. 2 smoke grenades One everyday armor t-shirt with Level 3A panels (front and back)—better than nothing Normal bag contents: earplugs, multitool, boo-boo kit with 2 tourniquets, clot gauze, 2 chest seals, a small emergency bag of water, light stick, gun oil wipes and a pull-through, and extra batteries I’m always alone during my commute, so I wanted a setup that is very light and gives my weapons 485 rounds of endurance. I think on the slim chance I’ll ever need it, it will be useful to help me escape a trouble spot and deter anyone chasing me. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/40842/IMG_6021-3254486.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/40842/IMG_6016-3254491.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/40842/IMG_6019-3254487.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/40842/IMG_6018-3254489.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/40842/IMG_5890-3236902.jpg Like this setup |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 2:24:54 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alacran: B&T supports various platforms which obviously include Glock…  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXNqzac4Aa4A brace version… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTgVcZRZmmI@Alacran Much appreciated, amigo. I forgot about B&T's USW. I already have Radian's Ramjet/Afterburner on my G19, so I think that would be better to use in a compact weapon without my having to go out and buy a P365 + Flux Raider or G17/G17L for said B&T. I spent a good penny having serrations cut into it, but hey, I'd rather go PDW
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Posted: 6/30/2024 3:12:13 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gunnie357: Like this setup Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gunnie357: Originally Posted By clickclickBOOM: PDWs! I’ll play! This is my grey man setup in my vehicle for my everyday commute and short trips to a larger, more violent city. I’m not realistically going to wear my full battle rattle, Level 4 plate carrier, battle belt, and AR in any possible scenarios that I think could happen in my area of operations (AO). I believe the local deputies would probably shoot first and ask questions later if they saw me wearing all that. I’ve chosen to keep a simple, lightweight setup in a secure armored area that I can open with the click of a button in the back of my vehicle. It would take time and a metal saw to access it otherwise. My normal everyday carry is a G43X MOS with three 15-round mags. My grab-and-go grey man setup includes a racket bag and a small sling bag, which is all anyone would see walking down the street. They contain a PS90 with the latest generation illuminated ring sight, seven mags (350 rounds) and an M&P 5.7 with four mags (89 rounds). The 5.7x28mm ammo is a mix of mags loaded with SS192, SS197, SS198, T6B, and Vanguard Fangs. I plan to test the new CD ammo that’s showing promise when I can get my hands on some. 2 smoke grenades One everyday armor t-shirt with Level 3A panels (front and back)—better than nothing Normal bag contents: earplugs, multitool, boo-boo kit with 2 tourniquets, clot gauze, 2 chest seals, a small emergency bag of water, light stick, gun oil wipes and a pull-through, and extra batteries I’m always alone during my commute, so I wanted a setup that is very light and gives my weapons 485 rounds of endurance. I think on the slim chance I’ll ever need it, it will be useful to help me escape a trouble spot and deter anyone chasing me. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/40842/IMG_6021-3254486.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/40842/IMG_6016-3254491.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/40842/IMG_6019-3254487.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/40842/IMG_6018-3254489.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/40842/IMG_5890-3236902.jpg Like this setup Thanks! |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 4:18:03 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By panthermark: I think a 5.7 in a chassis would be "close" to a PDW if we are talking handguns in chassis. Or maybe someone is rocking some very particular ammo. Full auto aside, the other "requirements" of a PDW are bottleneck rounds that can penetrate soft armor. Chassis are more akin to subguns, but it really all blurs together. I think 10mm in a chassis makes more sense than 9mm. Basically something with a bit more ass. 3 points of contact will help control recoil. You get three points of contact and a very compressed profile, even more than with a very short SBR. It sidesteps the Brace issue completely. Gun Jesus and Lucky Gunner have both done pieces on this. Here's a guy writing about using a 5.7 Ruger Charger in that role.  I've fired my MP15/22 this way and it's very fast and accurate. I've also mocked one up out of an old Umarex MP9 and played with it around the house. It seems very intuitive and usable. This guy used one in Airsoft and Go-Proed it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk9tshT17VU&list=PLF5CB7A56A7191748&ab_channel=blobworksbits I keep saying I'm going to set up a 22 Charger or get a MP15/22P and wring it out like that... |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 4:43:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: Alacran]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scalped: @Alacran Much appreciated, amigo. I forgot about B&T's USW. I already have Radian's Ramjet/Afterburner on my G19, so I think that would be better to use in a compact weapon without my having to go out and buy a P365 + Flux Raider or G17/G17L for said B&T. I spent a good penny having serrations cut into it, but hey, I'd rather go PDW Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scalped: Originally Posted By Alacran: B&T supports various platforms which obviously include Glock… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXNqzac4Aa4A brace version… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTgVcZRZmmI@Alacran Much appreciated, amigo. I forgot about B&T's USW. I already have Radian's Ramjet/Afterburner on my G19, so I think that would be better to use in a compact weapon without my having to go out and buy a P365 + Flux Raider or G17/G17L for said B&T. I spent a good penny having serrations cut into it, but hey, I'd rather go PDW @Scalped There are some good prices out there right now for LE trade-in G17s and some G19s. I’ve seen some G17 trade-ins for around $350. B&T also makes a kit to support the CZ P10 that can be found new starting at $350. Yeah, both of those options are just a little more that the 365 Raider kit by itself in case you want to keep your customized G19 as is. That 365 Flux Raider package is stupid small though. Edit: I guess the price of a dedicated RDS should be included in all that, too. |
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