It's not about dictating rules, it is about common decency.

Just because you can bring your crying baby into a restaurant does not mean you should.

Just because you can bring your miniature horse on the airplane does not mean you should.

There should not need to be a rule that says just leave your animals at home when you go to your workplace or patronize a business that other people patronize that is not specifically some place like pets-mart.

Yeah I hate picture passing too...

Haha or whoever just came back from break

If the owner says it's okay, then it's okay. You don't get to decide. If I see a sign that says "pets welcome" then you're shit out of luck. If it says "service dogs only" then I'm shit out of luck. If it doesn't say then I either move along or ask first.
That's common courtesy.

This a good balanced take, along with the employee retention bit, the adage being "people don't quit jobs, they quit shitty bosses"

There's a lot of differences depending on what level of what size company/what department in what industry at what payscale that makes most of this conversation pretty useless though.

It flips depending on how rich a people you know

This is true.  It may be the owner’s shtick.

There is a coffee place locally that has a playground for toddlers.  Guess where all the moms go to get their coffee?  You would be crazy to open a laptop and try to work there, but that’s not the business the owner is after.

The dog thing is interesting in general though.  When I was a kid (not that old), our dogs lived outside.  They weren’t allowed in the house, and we would never dream of taking them anywhere public.  Then Paris Hilton came along with her dog in a purse or baby carriage, and now all of a sudden dogs are treated like toddlers.  It’s an interesting shift.

I’m still surprised when I see people with full sized dogs that shed, like labs or retrievers, that let them inside and even let them sleep in their beds, but I’ve accepted that it’s the new reality.

Sounds fine to me.

I dont know where you got that from my post..  

There's a local brewery like that. Their location is surrounded by neighborhoods and they have indoor and outdoor play areas for kids with games and toys etc. They seem to stay busy.

It also depends on location i guess. Around here dog friendly places are pretty common. My dog is fairly small (well, I'm used to GSDs so she's small to me) and extremely well behaved in public. When there's 5 other people at the brewery/hardware store/wherever with dogs, why shouldn't I bring mine too, just because one guy on the internet thinks it's rude?

My dog is NOT a toddler...I have real kids. But she is allowed on the furniture and she's my buddy so...

Mine did not ignore it - they actively condemned it.  I was told it was unprofessional.  I had 2 partners that did not really believe that people should breed much, and certainly should get it over with in their 20’s.  My having a family in my 40’s was an adoration.

Because I think my boss is a good boss and he doesn't seem overly concerned with personal stuff.

What is a family?

Well. It all depends on context here. Because yea there's a whole lot of people that should never breed.
And yea typically as you get up in age the chances of complications during pregnancy rise sharply so it's probably better to do it earlier on.
Plus the older you are probably the further along in your career you are and it's more difficult with very small children. But yea sometimes it doesn't always work out like that and you have to make due.

“Friendship that overrides hierarchy results in workers without accountability”

Managers should have compassion, but it’s their job to make sure your job is getting done.

Last week our new executive director wanted me to bring a doctor's note for a routine dental checkup.  She's also requested doctor's notes for 2 pediatrician appointments and a PCP visit of mine.

She also requests doctor's notes whenever anyone is out sick.  I get that some people might be playing fast and loose with sick days, but for the people who are actually sick, I'd hope they could be adults and determine on their own if they need to see a doctor.  Most colds are viral based so the doc can't do anything anyway.  So we have to pay a PCP co-pay or an urgent care co-pay ($70) just because the new boss doesn't believe people when they say they're out sick.

Oh, and she wants 5-days' notice to take vacation time.

Before her: start/end times were flexible, if you needed a sick day you took a sick day, and if you wanted to take a day off, you told your boss "Hey it's nice outside, I think I'll be off tomorrow" and you were off tomorrow.  It was great.  She completely ruined it.

Yeah, I'm looking for a new job.

No, mine just doesn't believe in time off. You are expected to be on call and available 24/7 even if that was never the initial agreement. Simple stupid little things have to be addressed NOW.

I walked away from a really, really good paying job over that.
It was not explained to me at time of hire that I was point of contact (with expected contact times of less then 30 minutes) 24/7/365. There was no on call schedule for management, there was one for the service techs but I was supposed to contact client, attempt phone diag and if unsuccessful, contact and dispatch a tech within 30 minutes.
And none of what we did was life or death.

Really difficult to do when I was sitting at the bedside of a loved one in the ICU.
And no, the company did not care. Didn't expect them to but one of those things that would have been nice to know about before I accepted the job offer.

As far as the ignoring your family life.
Professional distance. It is a a lot easier to avoid all the traps that can befall an employer these days if you stay cold and aloof.
Kind of sucks but in the age of discrimination, #metoo and labor boards that are stacked decks against you, it is the best policy.
Can't get sued for being a cold asshole. Can get sued for becoming "buddies" with your workers, some of whom might be doing nothing more then baiting you, springing the trap when the time is right.

Last larger company I worked for had two women that ran the office. I made it a point to never be alone with either of them. I would often find excuses to leave the office and be out in the field if just one of the ladies and I were there. I also moved my desk to be near the window into my office so that I was in full view of the camera that was in the hallway (I had a window into the hall).

People are not robots; therefore they should not let their personal life interfere with the work they have agreed to do in exchange for a salary.

A leader may care about your personal life but YOU should not expect that from your leader or manager.

I personally have never expected my boss or my company to do anything beyond the salary they pay me.

What a man!!!

So edgy

Man, you're on a roll tough guy!!!

That would be my guess. Some people were abusing the shit out of it which pissed some people off who in turn bitched to management and a new company policy was born.
From my experience most new company policies don't just happen, it's because somebody fucked it up for everyone else.

Same here.

I literally only went home for dinner, shower and a few hours sleep.  In two years I could count on one hand the amount of full days off.  I started as a truck driver and the job descriptions just snowballed.  I ended up on what seemed to be perpetual call.  I was the only person that knew how to run the Locomotive and was in that damn thing for many many hours a week shuffling trains around.  I wanted to train a relief operator so I dint have to be in it so much.  That was a no.

They expected me to climb into a 80,000 bushel bin with a running bin sweep and gate conveyor and got pissed when I made them shut it down to fix the problem.

I was called on Christmas eve night to run the Locomotive,  I went in,  worked the train,  Wife drove to the yard to bring me dinner and my boss chewed her ass for daring to bring me food on the Locomotive.

They tried to make me enter the bin again while live. I refused.  Fits were had.  I punched out and went home. Boss claimed he was worried I had gotten hurt somewhere because I didn't notify him when I went home.   I asked him if he had checked my time card,  because if he had he would have known I punched out and went home.  He tried to raise his voice about it and I told him I'm done.  The following few days he had random other employees calling to see if I was coming to work.  I informed them that I am not.

My replacement.... A young kid 18 or 19 was killed in a bin when he was buried and crushed.  

The money was amazing,  The overtime was insane.  I missed two years of my kids lives and couldn't go anywhere to spend my money if I wanted to.

My farm job was also awesome,  the farm manager was a petulant prick.  Tried to tell me he would not allow me to accompany my wife to her cancer treatments and was a rude asshole to the neighboring farmers.  He was so bad the neighboring farmers would never help us.  I got hung up in a field and needed a pull,  asked the farmer in the neighboring field for a pull.  he asked if I worked for 'so and so'.  Yes I said,  "Hell no! fuck off" he said.  
He did apologize after I said "I am not 'so and so"  I would help you..."  

I'm sure that's one of the reasons for the policy.  My issue is that they should work with those people, and not punish everyone.

I see both sides of the arguement.

Personal life spills over into work. Work spills over into the personal life. Pretending that there's absolutely no relationship between the two doesn't change that.

IMO, good employees try to maintain separation and know that they are there to make money for the company and try to maximize that for mutual benefit.  However, it seems there's a number of people in this thread who don't recognize the value of taking a few moments to show/pretend you care. Those words can make a big difference when it comes to employees morale and retention.

Personally, I'm there to work and advance my skills and career, but occasional words of encouragement or acknowledgement of work well done are also appreciated.  Drama, rumors and petty stuff can take a hike - there's enough of that here.

There's a range of personalities and people are motivated differently - identifying and responding to those traits is the mark of a good manager, or even better, a leader.

He's actually right....I have never really viewed any of my co-workers as true friends, and I worked LE for two decades.

Friendship comes from true common interests and "letting your hair down" hours of simple talk and discussion.

I taught at a small private school until this morning.  I was paid $11 gross per class per day.  I had 9 classes a day.  I spent 1.5 hours daily grading papers, making lesson plans (for 7 different subjects), putting lessons together, all without pay.  No pay for non-teaching hours.  No bennies.   No insurance.  No accrued time off.  No sick leave.  No retirement plan.  None of that for being there even for paid hours.

Last Wednesday Mrs Rabinowitz had shoulder surgery.  I took the afternoon off.  No PTO.  I was off the clock but I still worked in the OR waiting room while she was under the knife for nearly three hours.  I took all of Thursday off, no pay, no PTO, to care for her.  I was obligated to make sure lesson plans were posted and that low grade alerts were sent out.

I sent out the alerts to the parents at home while taking care of her pain management.   In one of them I put the wrong subject into the subject line.  The parent called up all excited that her son’s schedule had been changed without warning.  The principal took the call.  I’ve had this kid in years past.  He didn’t do homework, rarely passed a test, and didn’t participate in class most of the times.  In that time, I sent her several dozen grade alerts.  She never responded to a single one.  His academic performance never improved.

I got an email from the principal admonishing me for the error and for even sending it.  The guideline was any average below 80 got an alert sent.  This kid had a generous 77.  I was told that I should not have sent it out prior to a 4 day weekend and certainly not for a 77 in spite of an earlier email telling the staff to send them out per guidelines.

He said my error made the school look bad.  In the future all grade alerts from me would have to be pre-approved.

I could have stomached that if he hadn’t cut my pay by 1/3rd at the start of the year (with the same workload) in order to “get all pay in line.”

I walked in today with my letter of resignation, grade book, school calculator, and digital files of all 11 subjects I had taught in the past 6 years.  It was heartbreaking for me.  Sometimes the best decisions are the hardest.

I told him that I was retiring to care for my wife....which is true.  I stopped there.  I gave no other reason, thanked him, shook his hand and said goodbye.   I might have given him two weeks, but I got tired of working for less money, for free 25% of the time, and the nitpicking micromanaging.

I feel like shit.  I had loved working at that school before he took over.  When you teach it is your identity.  I spent more time with some kids than their own parents.  I know about their lives.  I loved my students.

Right now I am struggling with the grief that comes from a sudden loss of an entire family and my own identity.

I just reached my breaking point.

Ha!  My specific team has the highest divorce rate in the entire dept.  Zero fucks given.

I've been following your threads off and on. I'm sure that wasn't an easy choice to make, but I think I would have done the same.

Best wishes to you and your wife as you move into the next phase of your life!

I am sorry that you walked away from a job that meant a lot to you, but it is better to do that once you realize you are at the breaking point. BTDT myself.

This, sucks!!

Do you take a lot of vacations with less than 5 days of planning?

I was wondering that also. Most places it's a minimum of 30 days notice. I have worked places that would instill a no more vacation time policy if a bunch of people wanted the same time periods off.
The hospital my sister works at time off requests must be made quarterly and even that far out they are not always approved if staffing needs aren't going to be met.

Well...I’m in the Army, so yeah I feel the pain. 30 days in the “field”...no personal cell phones. See you in a month hunny...I’ll be 4 miles down the road.

While I'm sure some abuse the workplace over their kids, if you usually have a consistent end time being told to work late when you need to pick up your kids is going to be a major problem.
What would have them do, leave the kids at an empty school for hours?

Bingo to that.

I liked what the wife did on the show "Last Man Standing" she started her own private tutoring business and was able to teach students without all the administrative interference.

Shoot. I would be like “no”. Don’t like it fire me I’ll take my skills and client connections to your nearest competitor.

She had a boss too I bet right?  Talk to them. It’s way too hot of a job market for most fields to tolerate that. I imagine others at your work feel similar.

You are assuming that "annual leave" = "long vacation".

While they might be one and the same, that isn't always the case.  Have you ever decided, on a Tuesday, that you'd like to take that Friday off?  We can't do that anymore, because it's less than 5-days' notice.  We've always been able to take time off like that.  Heck, one of my co-workers would occasionally leave mid-day to go deer hunting, as long as there weren't any meetings and things were a little slow.

I have never worked anywhere that required 30-days' notice to take a single day of vacation.  That's an absurd policy.

Public school district, so there's no competitor.  Yes, many of us feel the same way.
There aren't many places locally where I could take my IT skills, I'm in a bit of a niche area of the field, and I'm stuck here in this immediate area due to kids/divorce.  I actually had a fantastic interview awhile back for a job that would have almost tripled my salary, about 30-40 minutes away.  I found out 2 days ago that they are going through a big merger and all IT positions are on hold until at least April while they figure out what they're doing.  That was a huge letdown.

Today we were told that the last 2-weeks of school, and the first 2-weeks of next year's school year, are now blackout dates that no one can take vacation...so yes, they're literally saying no one in our department can take a day off (unless you're sick, and then they'll require a sick note) for 2-weeks in June, and 2-weeks in August.

This. Oh well.

That attitude still exists some places, think old school manufacturing. It’s rapidly dying. I manage a large organization in a fortune 50 company, and training managers on how to engage people on a personal level is a big thing. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with being very work focused, but some of the things described here are just absurd. You can ask about how people’s personal lives are without being someone’s best friend. If they’re fucked up at home they’re probably going to be fucked up at work, it just makes business sense. Especially in an economy where people can find another job in a heartbeat.

... and then on the other hand, you have posts like this. Holy shit dude, stay in education. 4 weeks of blackout dates.. the horror

I worked at a printing company like that for many years. Soul-sucking.

I swore I'd never allow any business to do that to me again. I'm not a fucking slave.

The company I work at now is nothing like that. They have a lot of cool things they do for us, the managers directly above me all know my living situation and what my home life is like for better or worse, and are accommodating when I need time for have things that require me to be away. It's a friendly atmosphere and we're more like a family than a bunch of nameless co-workers.

Some of you that think that's all gross or unnecessary are just mental. Who the fuck wants to work where you're just a lifeless cog? Jesus christ, what a pathetic way to spend your days.

I don’t get all this and the whole work life balance personal stuff at work.  it’s really none of my business about your personal life.  I don’t bring my personal life to work and I don’t bring my work life home.  Part of it for me is some level of situational leadership.  For the needy people I do ask and inquire so they feel heard and to some degree it is shallow as I really don’t as these people will go on and on for 30 minutes of personal chit chat which I have to cut off as there is work to get done.
I do try to acknowledge as short as possible like “Hey Joe how was your vacation”?  Joe responds.  Me “cool. Glad you had a great time. Welcome back”. As I am walking away.  My people are always accountable. They get done what they need before leaving, they pick up where they left off.  I don’t have to ask for such and such summary or data as they understand deadlines and won’t leave for a vacation with shit that needs to get done before they leave.
If I needed to ask someone where that “report” was from two weeks ago, they wouldn’t be on my team for long as ultimately if the report was needed two weeks ago i would’ve done it for them.

Our employee handbook stated that since we weren’t open on Fridays, all medical appointments should be made for that day.  BTW, with zero PTO if I had to miss a class because of an appointment, I don’t get paid for that class.  They would bring in a sub for $2.50 less for that classes.  Thus, it cost my former employer ZERO for me to go to the doctor since the sub would be paid instead of me and at a lower rate.

If you treat your employees like cattle, don’t expect good results.

I had a boss one time that had the men of the company work on Christmas Eve which was a Saturday because we were always there on Saturdays. We weren’t a retail outfit.  We were a pet food company.  The plant was not running but the men had to come to work.  The women were specifically excused.  BTW, he was very up front about his Christianity.   Nothing got done.  Well, that’s not correct.  The resentment cost him 100X in loss of productivity.

Vacation for a sick kid but it's a great place to work? Wtf yo

This attitude is exactly what this thread is about.