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Posted: 7/30/2024 1:12:54 AM EDT
[#1]
It's Boeing.... and they're STILL Foing
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Posted: 7/30/2024 9:21:13 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WesJanson: Ehhh... As much as I hate Boeing, realistically they probably have a 70-80% chance of survival if they undock in Starliner and attempt reentry. That's..not terrible. Definitely not great. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WesJanson: Originally Posted By TheWhiteHorse: If they leave in that thing they are going to die. Ehhh... As much as I hate Boeing, realistically they probably have a 70-80% chance of survival if they undock in Starliner and attempt reentry. That's..not terrible. Definitely not great. Not terrible? I can tell you're not the one strapping in for the ride... |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 10:52:23 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By killingmachine123: Not terrible? I can tell you're not the one strapping in for the ride... No, the 2 who signed on for this are highly trained astronauts who have decades of firsthand experience with this stuff. If they are willing to take the risk then they do so on an informed basis. I doubt that Boeing or NASA is keeping them in the dark on anything. If they are then it will come out later and it will be an ugly scandal. |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 11:00:07 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: No, the 2 who signed on for this are highly trained astronauts who have decades of firsthand experience with this stuff. If they are willing to take the risk then they do so on an informed basis. I doubt that Boeing or NASA is keeping them in the dark on anything. If they are then it will come out later and it will be an ugly scandal. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Originally Posted By killingmachine123: Not terrible? I can tell you're not the one strapping in for the ride... No, the 2 who signed on for this are highly trained astronauts who have decades of firsthand experience with this stuff. If they are willing to take the risk then they do so on an informed basis. I doubt that Boeing or NASA is keeping them in the dark on anything. If they are then it will come out later and it will be an ugly scandal. That's the silly thing about bad actors hiding behind classifications - oh, we screwed up, or let's do this evil thing - we'll just classify it Top Secret! Classifications are just a time delay. The truth always outs later. |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 11:03:06 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: I doubt that Boeing or NASA is keeping them in the dark on anything. I hope this is sarcasm. |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 11:21:52 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By robertmegar: I hope this is sarcasm. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By robertmegar: Originally Posted By Hesperus: I doubt that Boeing or NASA is keeping them in the dark on anything. I hope this is sarcasm. I'm sure they've given them a full rundown, just like they did for the Columbia astronauts. |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 11:35:22 AM EDT
[#7]
 Attached FileQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By killingmachine123: I'm sure they've given them a full rundown, just like they did for the Columbia astronauts. Attached File |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 11:40:44 AM EDT
[#8]
If they stay in space enough they might as well declare the ISS an independent country.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 7/30/2024 11:42:23 AM EDT
[#9]
It is really tough to figure what is going internally at Boeing. I know my ex-BIL was ordered to move from Manhattan Beach(McDonald-Douglas) to Seattle, but he choose to take early retirement because his reasoning if he made the move, there is no guarantee how long they will keep him.
Also for many years here on ARFCOM, we have had ex-Boeing engineers claim he was laid-off and a DEI-replacement was hired in his place. Personally, the solution to Boeing's problem is to cut loose everyone from the CEO down to the janitor, and repopulate it with engineering people. |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 11:52:56 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By robertmegar: I hope this is sarcasm. Where is your proof? Wacko paranoia passed as fact doesn't cut it. So far, they are as transparent as they need to be. You are not entitled to know every piece of minutia. The astronauts are safe and being useful. No big deal. If they aren't worried, we shouldn't be either. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 7/30/2024 12:01:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chisum: Where is your proof? Wacko paranoia passed as fact doesn't cut it. So far, they are as transparent as they need to be. You are not entitled to know every piece of minutia. The astronauts are safe and being useful. No big deal. If they aren't worried, we shouldn't be either. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chisum: Originally Posted By robertmegar: I hope this is sarcasm. Where is your proof? Wacko paranoia passed as fact doesn't cut it. So far, they are as transparent as they need to be. You are not entitled to know every piece of minutia. The astronauts are safe and being useful. No big deal. If they aren't worried, we shouldn't be either. Why aren't we entitled to know what is being done with our tax money and employees? |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 7/30/2024 12:02:28 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: No, the 2 who signed on for this are highly trained astronauts who have decades of firsthand experience with this stuff. If they are willing to take the risk then they do so on an informed basis. I doubt that Boeing or NASA is keeping them in the dark on anything. If they are then it will come out later and it will be an ugly scandal. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Originally Posted By killingmachine123: Not terrible? I can tell you're not the one strapping in for the ride... No, the 2 who signed on for this are highly trained astronauts who have decades of firsthand experience with this stuff. If they are willing to take the risk then they do so on an informed basis. I doubt that Boeing or NASA is keeping them in the dark on anything. If they are then it will come out later and it will be an ugly scandal. Boeing, lying to the astronauts about their survival chances on a return trip on a malfunctioning shuttle? Naw, they would never! That would be almost as bad as murdering whistleblowers… |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 12:08:48 PM EDT
[#13]
I know it's been discussed but how difficult is it for SpaceX to throw 2 extra space suits into their capsule? They must have every measurement possible of the two guinea pigs in space in a fitting manual for the Boeing suits. Cheap? No. But it shouldn't be insurmountable.
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Posted: 7/30/2024 12:10:30 PM EDT
[#14]
But did the emergency exit door stay attached?
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 7/30/2024 12:12:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johnh57: I know it's been discussed but how difficult is it for SpaceX to throw 2 extra space suits into their capsule? They must have every measurement possible of the two guinea pigs in space in a fitting manual for the Boeing suits. Cheap? No. But it shouldn't be insurmountable. And if there is a measurement they don't have I bet the iss has a tape measure |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 12:41:55 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By warlord: It is really tough to figure what is going internally at Boeing. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By warlord: It is really tough to figure what is going internally at Boeing. Originally Posted By Chisum: So far, they are as transparent as they need to be. You are not entitled to know every piece of minutia. The astronauts are safe and being useful. No big deal. If they aren't worried, we shouldn't be either. Sure keep classified things classified, but all they've said about the thruster issue is: Ground testing conducted on thrusters that maneuver Boeing’s capsule in space found that Teflon used to control the flow of rocket propellant eroded under high heat conditions, while different seals that control helium gas showed bulging, they said. It's bullshit artificial opaqueness that does nothing other than erode the public's confidence in a once great institution. Same reason nobody trusts politicians, the DMV, cops, unions, or any other bloated bureaucracy. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 7/30/2024 12:47:25 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CoyoteGray: Elon should offer to go get them... Better idea send Trump ... |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 12:51:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: And if there is a measurement they don't have I bet the iss has a tape measure It’s in the drawer in the kitchen where they keep the scissors, scotch tape and the screwdrivers. 
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Posted: 7/30/2024 5:26:54 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Morgan321: No it's not, management is doing what they think is best for Boeing. "best" may or may not involve building the best airplanes and spaceships ever. No they aren't. I'm a taxpayer and I want to know what they are doing with my money. Sure keep classified things classified, but all they've said about the thruster issue is: Why haven't other spacecraft had this same problem? Is the teflon in question thread sealant or is it seals inside valves or fittings? If it erodes under heat more than they anticipated how do they know it won't erode enough to cause a problem during the return trip? Is the teflon erosion the cause of the inoperative thruster? Where are these teflon parts located? How do you know the helium seals won't degrade further during the return trip? How much helium is currently on the starliner and how much is needed for the return trip? Where are the leaks and what are the actual leak rates(in mass per unit time)? It's bullshit artificial opaqueness that does nothing other than erode the public's confidence in a once great institution. Same reason nobody trusts politicians, the DMV, cops, unions, or any other bloated bureaucracy. Have you listened to all of the telecons? What you're asking has been covered. |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 5:28:23 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: No, the 2 who signed on for this are highly trained astronauts who have decades of firsthand experience with this stuff. If they are willing to take the risk then they do so on an informed basis. I doubt that Boeing or NASA is keeping them in the dark on anything. If they are then it will come out later and it will be an ugly scandal. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Originally Posted By killingmachine123: Not terrible? I can tell you're not the one strapping in for the ride... No, the 2 who signed on for this are highly trained astronauts who have decades of firsthand experience with this stuff. If they are willing to take the risk then they do so on an informed basis. I doubt that Boeing or NASA is keeping them in the dark on anything. If they are then it will come out later and it will be an ugly scandal.  |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 5:37:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: delemorte]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chisum: Where is your proof? Wacko paranoia passed as fact doesn't cut it. So far, they are as transparent as they need to be. You are not entitled to know every piece of minutia. The astronauts are safe and being useful. No big deal. If they aren't worried, we shouldn't be either. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chisum: Originally Posted By robertmegar: I hope this is sarcasm. Where is your proof? Wacko paranoia passed as fact doesn't cut it. So far, they are as transparent as they need to be. You are not entitled to know every piece of minutia. The astronauts are safe and being useful. No big deal. If they aren't worried, we shouldn't be either. Historical context. https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/nasa-discussed-not-telling-astronauts-about-columbia-s-doom-1.1390174 "You know there is nothing we can do about damage to the (thermal protection system)," Hale quotes Harpold a decade later. "If it has been damaged, it's probably better not to know. I think the crew would rather not know. Don't you think it would be better for them to have a happy successful flight and die unexpectedly during entry than to stay on orbit, knowing that there was nothing to be done until the air ran out." They told astronauts they weren't worried about damage from foam insulation coming off the massive shuttle fuel tank during launch, hitting a wing that allowed superheated gases in when the shuttle re-entered the atmosphere. No one was aware of the seriousness of the damage at the time. This was a what-if type question that conveyed a fatalistic attitude about the heat shield system being unfixable, which was "a wrong-headed cultural norm that we had all bought into," Hale said in a Thursday telephone interview. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/30/2024 5:51:11 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By killingmachine123: Not terrible? I can tell you're not the one strapping in for the ride... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By killingmachine123: Originally Posted By WesJanson: Originally Posted By TheWhiteHorse: If they leave in that thing they are going to die. Ehhh... As much as I hate Boeing, realistically they probably have a 70-80% chance of survival if they undock in Starliner and attempt reentry. That's..not terrible. Definitely not great. Not terrible? I can tell you're not the one strapping in for the ride... They're experienced. They signed up for Boeing knowing *exactly* what they were getting into. They decided the risks were worth the reward of getting a ride into orbit. I won't take away a single shred of ownership they have in their own decision making. They both chose to go, and take the attendant risks. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 8/1/2024 9:45:36 AM EDT
[#23]
Reminder, top men at Boeing are hard at work calling SpaceX for help to avoid...
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Posted: 8/1/2024 9:57:04 AM EDT
[#24]
DEI strikes again.
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Posted: 8/1/2024 10:17:35 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WesJanson: They're experienced. They signed up for Boeing knowing *exactly* what they were getting into. They decided the risks were worth the reward of getting a ride into orbit. I won't take away a single shred of ownership they have in their own decision making. They both chose to go, and take the attendant risks. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WesJanson: Originally Posted By killingmachine123: Originally Posted By WesJanson: Originally Posted By TheWhiteHorse: If they leave in that thing they are going to die. Ehhh... As much as I hate Boeing, realistically they probably have a 70-80% chance of survival if they undock in Starliner and attempt reentry. That's..not terrible. Definitely not great. Not terrible? I can tell you're not the one strapping in for the ride... They're experienced. They signed up for Boeing knowing *exactly* what they were getting into. They decided the risks were worth the reward of getting a ride into orbit. I won't take away a single shred of ownership they have in their own decision making. They both chose to go, and take the attendant risks. Sure, buy the ticket, take the ride. I would like to think that they were aware of the 2nd rate nature of this whole thing. However, a 70% chance of not being incinerated is still terrible odds when it comes to living. |
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Posted: 8/1/2024 11:06:29 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By killingmachine123: Sure, buy the ticket, take the ride. I would like to think that they were aware of the 2nd rate nature of this whole thing. However, a 70% chance of not being incinerated is still terrible odds when it comes to living. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By killingmachine123: Originally Posted By WesJanson: Originally Posted By killingmachine123: Originally Posted By WesJanson: Originally Posted By TheWhiteHorse: If they leave in that thing they are going to die. Ehhh... As much as I hate Boeing, realistically they probably have a 70-80% chance of survival if they undock in Starliner and attempt reentry. That's..not terrible. Definitely not great. Not terrible? I can tell you're not the one strapping in for the ride... They're experienced. They signed up for Boeing knowing *exactly* what they were getting into. They decided the risks were worth the reward of getting a ride into orbit. I won't take away a single shred of ownership they have in their own decision making. They both chose to go, and take the attendant risks. Sure, buy the ticket, take the ride. I would like to think that they were aware of the 2nd rate nature of this whole thing. However, a 70% chance of not being incinerated is still terrible odds when it comes to living. Nah, the heat shield will work. It's just a question of running out of oxygen prior to reentry. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/1/2024 2:23:08 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Nah, the heat shield will work. It's just a question of running out of oxygen prior to reentry. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By killingmachine123: Originally Posted By WesJanson: Originally Posted By killingmachine123: Originally Posted By WesJanson: Originally Posted By TheWhiteHorse: If they leave in that thing they are going to die. Ehhh... As much as I hate Boeing, realistically they probably have a 70-80% chance of survival if they undock in Starliner and attempt reentry. That's..not terrible. Definitely not great. Not terrible? I can tell you're not the one strapping in for the ride... They're experienced. They signed up for Boeing knowing *exactly* what they were getting into. They decided the risks were worth the reward of getting a ride into orbit. I won't take away a single shred of ownership they have in their own decision making. They both chose to go, and take the attendant risks. Sure, buy the ticket, take the ride. I would like to think that they were aware of the 2nd rate nature of this whole thing. However, a 70% chance of not being incinerated is still terrible odds when it comes to living. Nah, the heat shield will work. It's just a question of running out of oxygen prior to reentry. But would aerodynamic passive stability drag-stabilize into the correct orientation before friction heating cooks the cabin? I'd ask "what do the models show?" but we already know Boeing hasn't bothered to test or simulate it, since clearly the entirety of their simulation regimen entails playing a few hours of KSP. |
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Posted: 8/1/2024 2:27:00 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WesJanson: But would aerodynamic passive stability drag-stabilize into the correct orientation before friction heating cooks the cabin? I'd ask "what do the models show?" but we already know Boeing hasn't bothered to test or simulate it, since clearly the entirety of their simulation regimen entails playing a few hours of KSP. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WesJanson: Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By killingmachine123: Originally Posted By WesJanson: Originally Posted By killingmachine123: Originally Posted By WesJanson: Originally Posted By TheWhiteHorse: If they leave in that thing they are going to die. As much as I hate Boeing, realistically they probably have a 70-80% chance of survival if they undock in Starliner and attempt reentry. That's..not terrible. Definitely not great. Not terrible? I can tell you're not the one strapping in for the ride... They're experienced. They signed up for Boeing knowing *exactly* what they were getting into. They decided the risks were worth the reward of getting a ride into orbit. I won't take away a single shred of ownership they have in their own decision making. They both chose to go, and take the attendant risks. Sure, buy the ticket, take the ride. I would like to think that they were aware of the 2nd rate nature of this whole thing. However, a 70% chance of not being incinerated is still terrible odds when it comes to living. Nah, the heat shield will work. It's just a question of running out of oxygen prior to reentry. But would aerodynamic passive stability drag-stabilize into the correct orientation before friction heating cooks the cabin? I'd ask "what do the models show?" but we already know Boeing hasn't bothered to test or simulate it, since clearly the entirety of their simulation regimen entails playing a few hours of KSP. It's basically an Apollo CM. The thrusters on the CM aren't in question - it's the thrusters in the Service module that are problematic and needed to lower the orbit for reentry. Reentry isn't the concern. It's a timely reentry that's the question. Or banging into the ISS as you pull away, which has heretofore been purely a Russian concern for Progress. 
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Posted: 8/1/2024 2:48:41 PM EDT
[#29]
How do we know they are still alive? Government tells us?
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Posted: 8/1/2024 2:56:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dirtyboy: How do we know they are still alive? Government tells us? Umm, you can listen to the orbit to ground radio, don't think it's encrypted. The Russians aren't going to cover up the death of American contractors. |
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Posted: 8/1/2024 3:04:56 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By warlord: It is really tough to figure what is going internally at Boeing. I know my ex-BIL was ordered to move from Manhattan Beach(McDonald-Douglas) to Seattle, but he choose to take early retirement because his reasoning if he made the move, there is no guarantee how long they will keep him. Also for many years here on ARFCOM, we have had ex-Boeing engineers claim he was laid-off and a DEI-replacement was hired in his place. Personally, the solution to Boeing's problem is to cut loose everyone from the CEO down to the janitor, and repopulate it with engineering people. The only one to one replacements are among senior management. The rest are water in a bucket and one person leaving is an issue for about 10 seconds. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 8/1/2024 3:59:18 PM EDT
[#32]
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LA, USA
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Posted: 8/2/2024 9:15:10 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dirtyboy: How do we know they are still alive? Government tells us? 
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Posted: 8/2/2024 9:18:14 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dirtyboy: How do we know they are still alive? Government tells us?  "Is there air? You don't know!" |
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Posted: 8/2/2024 9:31:54 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SamBoga:
He must not read GD...... |
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Posted: 8/2/2024 9:44:32 AM EDT
[#36]
If they get rescued, can Boeing/NASA try to bring the craft down unmanned?
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Posted: 8/2/2024 9:48:20 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Intune: If they get rescued, can Boeing/NASA try to bring the craft down unmanned? Yes. Its autonomous |
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Posted: 8/2/2024 10:01:15 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delemorte: Yes. Its autonomous Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delemorte: Originally Posted By Intune: If they get rescued, can Boeing/NASA try to bring the craft down unmanned? Yes. Its autonomous Thank you. So do the astronauts actually fly it at all? Or are they just along for the ride? Seems like an unmanned test flight would have been the way to go. But hubris might have come into play on this one. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 8/2/2024 10:03:35 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Intune: Thank you. So do the astronauts actually fly it at all? Or are they just along for the ride? Seems like an unmanned test flight would have been the way to go. But hubris might have come into play on this one. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Intune: Originally Posted By delemorte: Originally Posted By Intune: If they get rescued, can Boeing/NASA try to bring the craft down unmanned? Yes. Its autonomous Thank you. So do the astronauts actually fly it at all? Or are they just along for the ride? Seems like an unmanned test flight would have been the way to go. But hubris might have come into play on this one. They did an unmanned test flight a couple of times. They were both horrible but NASA let them press forward. |
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Posted: 8/2/2024 10:09:32 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: They did an unmanned test flight a couple of times. They were both horrible but NASA let them press forward. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: Originally Posted By Intune: Originally Posted By delemorte: Originally Posted By Intune: If they get rescued, can Boeing/NASA try to bring the craft down unmanned? Yes. Its autonomous Thank you. So do the astronauts actually fly it at all? Or are they just along for the ride? Seems like an unmanned test flight would have been the way to go. But hubris might have come into play on this one. They did an unmanned test flight a couple of times. They were both horrible but NASA let them press forward.  Both flights landed intact, did they not?
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Posted: 8/2/2024 10:16:29 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By joemama74: At best a lot of that interior stuff needs a bleach power washing. Space is gross and brutal. That would be a very interesting challenge for cleaning tech, and it's not gonna go away. People are going to be living in tin cans (or inflatable bags) for the foreseeable future. The company that corners cleaning habs will make BANK. |
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Posted: 8/2/2024 10:20:32 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Intune: Thank you. So do the astronauts actually fly it at all? Or are they just along for the ride? Seems like an unmanned test flight would have been the way to go. But hubris might have come into play on this one. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Intune: Originally Posted By delemorte: Originally Posted By Intune: If they get rescued, can Boeing/NASA try to bring the craft down unmanned? Yes. Its autonomous Thank you. So do the astronauts actually fly it at all? Or are they just along for the ride? Seems like an unmanned test flight would have been the way to go. But hubris might have come into play on this one. Yea, on the way up after thrusters started to malfunction they took manual control of the space craft. There has been some speculation that this is what contributed to the overheating of thrusters causing more malfunctions. They have been doing tests to recreate this to see if that was in fact an issue. They wont know for certain until they get through all the numbers and release a report some time in the future. As it stands now they feel they have a new thrust profile to account for this but that's assuming that everything goes as planned and they dont need to take manual control again. The rub here is that if they get off the ISS OK and their thrusters cant complete the de-orbit burn correctly you got two outcomes. It comes down somewhere its not meant to do and you hope you come down on land or you are stuck in space. The first is a problem cause that thing ain't meant for a water landing. The second is there is nothing you can do about it. You cant just send up dragon, rendezvous and then just change capsules. There are no suits in that thing rated for space and neither capsule is built to depressurize and represurize it self. So even if you could get close, life support is still an issue. This isn't some science fiction movie. |
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Posted: 8/2/2024 10:22:00 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Both flights landed intact, did they not?Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By Imzadi: Originally Posted By Intune: Originally Posted By delemorte: Originally Posted By Intune: If they get rescued, can Boeing/NASA try to bring the craft down unmanned? Yes. Its autonomous Thank you. So do the astronauts actually fly it at all? Or are they just along for the ride? Seems like an unmanned test flight would have been the way to go. But hubris might have come into play on this one. They did an unmanned test flight a couple of times. They were both horrible but NASA let them press forward. Both flights landed intact, did they not?Well, the first one didnt make its orbit cause it thought it was somewhere it was completely not. The second had thruster issues and parachute issues. Neither was a successful flight to any one but boeing leadership who would spin it any way they could to secure future contracts. |
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Posted: 8/2/2024 10:33:01 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: They did an unmanned test flight a couple of times. They were both horrible but NASA let them press forward. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: Originally Posted By Intune: Originally Posted By delemorte: Originally Posted By Intune: If they get rescued, can Boeing/NASA try to bring the craft down unmanned? Yes. Its autonomous Thank you. So do the astronauts actually fly it at all? Or are they just along for the ride? Seems like an unmanned test flight would have been the way to go. But hubris might have come into play on this one. They did an unmanned test flight a couple of times. They were both horrible but NASA let them press forward. Oh, damn. Terrible I will read all of the thread before asking any more questions that have already been answered. |
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Posted: 8/2/2024 10:44:55 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delemorte: Yea, on the way up after thrusters started to malfunction they took manual control of the space craft. There has been some speculation that this is what contributed to the overheating of thrusters causing more malfunctions. They have been doing tests to recreate this to see if that was in fact an issue. They wont know for certain until they get through all the numbers and release a report some time in the future. As it stands now they feel they have a new thrust profile to account for this but that's assuming that everything goes as planned and they dont need to take manual control again. The rub here is that if they get off the ISS OK and their thrusters cant complete the de-orbit burn correctly you got two outcomes. It comes down somewhere its not meant to do and you hope you come down on land or you are stuck in space. The first is a problem cause that thing ain't meant for a water landing. The second is there is nothing you can do about it. You cant just send up dragon, rendezvous and then just change capsules. There are no suits in that thing rated for space and neither capsule is built to depressurize and represurize it self. So even if you could get close, life support is still an issue. This isn't some science fiction movie. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delemorte: Originally Posted By Intune: Originally Posted By delemorte: Originally Posted By Intune: If they get rescued, can Boeing/NASA try to bring the craft down unmanned? Yes. Its autonomous Thank you. So do the astronauts actually fly it at all? Or are they just along for the ride? Seems like an unmanned test flight would have been the way to go. But hubris might have come into play on this one. Yea, on the way up after thrusters started to malfunction they took manual control of the space craft. There has been some speculation that this is what contributed to the overheating of thrusters causing more malfunctions. They have been doing tests to recreate this to see if that was in fact an issue. They wont know for certain until they get through all the numbers and release a report some time in the future. As it stands now they feel they have a new thrust profile to account for this but that's assuming that everything goes as planned and they dont need to take manual control again. The rub here is that if they get off the ISS OK and their thrusters cant complete the de-orbit burn correctly you got two outcomes. It comes down somewhere its not meant to do and you hope you come down on land or you are stuck in space. The first is a problem cause that thing ain't meant for a water landing. The second is there is nothing you can do about it. You cant just send up dragon, rendezvous and then just change capsules. There are no suits in that thing rated for space and neither capsule is built to depressurize and represurize it self. So even if you could get close, life support is still an issue. This isn't some science fiction movie. Stayliner can't get stuck in space. It will come back to earth sooner or later. You just want to get back before the oxygen runs out. And while the suits may not be rated for hours of EVA in space, they're pressure suits and would get you into Dragon in a pinch. Given SpaceX is planning an EVA shortly, it sure sounds like they have the capabilities to either depressurize Dragon or can hang an airlock off of it. |
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Posted: 8/2/2024 11:03:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: delemorte]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Stayliner can't get stuck in space. It will come back to earth sooner or later. You just want to get back before the oxygen runs out. And while the suits may not be rated for hours of EVA in space, they're pressure suits and would get you into Dragon in a pinch. Given SpaceX is planning an EVA shortly, it sure sounds like they have the capabilities to either depressurize Dragon or can hang an airlock off of it. Ive seen you say this before but you never address the elephant in the room. Which of those two crafts has the ability to depressurize and re-pressurize in orbit right now? Which one of those vessels is currently built to deal with an EVA? how do you connect those two space ships so you can support a transport of crew with out drift or crushing someone? Those are soft suits not meant for a vacuum, they are meant to deal with sudden cabin depressurization. So without the needed cooling and support structures of the suit, how do they deal with the temps and vacuum of space without turning into that kid from a christmas story. Alexei Leonov found out using a suit built for it. His answer was to depressurize his suit so he could get back in his capsule and it almost killed him. |
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Posted: 8/2/2024 11:05:20 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delemorte: Yea, on the way up after thrusters started to malfunction they took manual control of the space craft. There has been some speculation that this is what contributed to the overheating of thrusters causing more malfunctions. They have been doing tests to recreate this to see if that was in fact an issue. They wont know for certain until they get through all the numbers and release a report some time in the future. As it stands now they feel they have a new thrust profile to account for this but that's assuming that everything goes as planned and they dont need to take manual control again. The rub here is that if they get off the ISS OK and their thrusters cant complete the de-orbit burn correctly you got two outcomes. It comes down somewhere its not meant to do and you hope you come down on land or you are stuck in space. The first is a problem cause that thing ain't meant for a water landing. The second is there is nothing you can do about it. You cant just send up dragon, rendezvous and then just change capsules. There are no suits in that thing rated for space and neither capsule is built to depressurize and represurize it self. So even if you could get close, life support is still an issue. This isn't some science fiction movie. Dragon can depress/repress. They in fact planning a tethered EVA right now. Doesn’t change the fact that a dragon can’t just a let them climb in like the movies. People don’t understand that these spacecraft BARELY make it to the ISS because mission parameters for any launch are crazy tight. They just don’t have the power or fuel to simply drive around anywhere on orbit. Movies make it look simple. It’s not. |
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Posted: 8/2/2024 11:13:55 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delemorte: Well, the first one didnt make its orbit cause it thought it was somewhere it was completely not. The second had thruster issues and parachute issues. Neither was a successful flight to any one but boeing leadership who would spin it any way they could to secure future contracts. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delemorte: Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By Imzadi: Originally Posted By Intune: Originally Posted By delemorte: Originally Posted By Intune: If they get rescued, can Boeing/NASA try to bring the craft down unmanned? Yes. Its autonomous Thank you. So do the astronauts actually fly it at all? Or are they just along for the ride? Seems like an unmanned test flight would have been the way to go. But hubris might have come into play on this one. They did an unmanned test flight a couple of times. They were both horrible but NASA let them press forward. Both flights landed intact, did they not?Well, the first one didnt make its orbit cause it thought it was somewhere it was completely not. The second had thruster issues and parachute issues. Neither was a successful flight to any one but boeing leadership who would spin it any way they could to secure future contracts. IIRC, they had heat shield issues on the second flight. |
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Posted: 8/2/2024 11:15:22 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: Dragon can depress/repress. They in fact planning a tethered EVA right now. Doesn’t change the fact that a dragon can’t just a let them climb in like the movies. People don’t understand that these spacecraft BARELY make it to the ISS because mission parameters for any launch are crazy tight. They just don’t have the power or fuel to simply drive around anywhere on orbit. Movies make it look simple. It’s not. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: Originally Posted By delemorte: Yea, on the way up after thrusters started to malfunction they took manual control of the space craft. There has been some speculation that this is what contributed to the overheating of thrusters causing more malfunctions. They have been doing tests to recreate this to see if that was in fact an issue. They wont know for certain until they get through all the numbers and release a report some time in the future. As it stands now they feel they have a new thrust profile to account for this but that's assuming that everything goes as planned and they dont need to take manual control again. The rub here is that if they get off the ISS OK and their thrusters cant complete the de-orbit burn correctly you got two outcomes. It comes down somewhere its not meant to do and you hope you come down on land or you are stuck in space. The first is a problem cause that thing ain't meant for a water landing. The second is there is nothing you can do about it. You cant just send up dragon, rendezvous and then just change capsules. There are no suits in that thing rated for space and neither capsule is built to depressurize and represurize it self. So even if you could get close, life support is still an issue. This isn't some science fiction movie. Dragon can depress/repress. They in fact planning a tethered EVA right now. Doesn’t change the fact that a dragon can’t just a let them climb in like the movies. People don’t understand that these spacecraft BARELY make it to the ISS because mission parameters for any launch are crazy tight. They just don’t have the power or fuel to simply drive around anywhere on orbit. Movies make it look simple. It’s not. Planning yes and in the future i am sure it would be more than capable. But what happens today? If they get stuck up there tomorrow, there will not be time to simply build something out. Its either turn key right this second, swap out the return vehicle or roll the dice. Those are your options today. |
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Posted: 8/2/2024 11:29:54 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delemorte: Historical context. https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/nasa-discussed-not-telling-astronauts-about-columbia-s-doom-1.1390174 Not the same at all, not even close. The crew knows the problem and is involved in the on-board tests. There is no evidence the NASA crew is ignorant of what is happening. They are safe and can stay for an extended time. They will be brought home when it is deemed safe. Supply flights are upcoming. You are just rumor-mongering and you know it. "Doom, doom, oh my god, doom!' ROFL |
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