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Posted: 8/2/2024 11:32:02 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SamBoga:
Are you volunteering for the next test flight? Is that transparent enough for you? No? I didn't think so. |
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Posted: 8/2/2024 2:28:01 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chisum: Not the same at all, not even close. The crew knows the problem and is involved in the on-board tests. There is no evidence the NASA crew is ignorant of what is happening. They are safe and can stay for an extended time. They will be brought home when it is deemed safe. Supply flights are upcoming. You are just rumor-mongering and you know it. "Doom, doom, oh my god, doom!' ROFL Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chisum: Originally Posted By delemorte: Historical context. https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/nasa-discussed-not-telling-astronauts-about-columbia-s-doom-1.1390174 Not the same at all, not even close. The crew knows the problem and is involved in the on-board tests. There is no evidence the NASA crew is ignorant of what is happening. They are safe and can stay for an extended time. They will be brought home when it is deemed safe. Supply flights are upcoming. You are just rumor-mongering and you know it. "Doom, doom, oh my god, doom!' ROFL Ok buddy. |
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Posted: 8/2/2024 2:42:44 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delemorte: Ok buddy. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delemorte: Originally Posted By Chisum: Originally Posted By delemorte: Historical context. https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/nasa-discussed-not-telling-astronauts-about-columbia-s-doom-1.1390174 Not the same at all, not even close. The crew knows the problem and is involved in the on-board tests. There is no evidence the NASA crew is ignorant of what is happening. They are safe and can stay for an extended time. They will be brought home when it is deemed safe. Supply flights are upcoming. You are just rumor-mongering and you know it. "Doom, doom, oh my god, doom!' ROFL Ok buddy. All is well! |
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Posted: 8/2/2024 2:55:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Antero]
[#4]
I assume the Stayliner is capable of being remotely controlled like SpaceX capsules. They should probably just send the Boeing rattletrap back unmanned. The astronauts can then return safely in a SpaceX capsule. Sounds like things are heading that way.
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Posted: 8/2/2024 3:05:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: delemorte]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Antero: I assume the Stayliner is capable of being remotely controlled like SpaceX capsules. They should probably just send the Boeing rattletrap back unmanned. The astronauts can then return safely in a SpaceX capsule. Sounds like things are heading that way. Thats whats currently being discussed. Leaks are saying that nasa is 50/50 split on sending up Dragon but boeing is still convinced its GTG. https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/02/nasa-may-return-starliner-astronauts-on-boeing-or-spacex.html https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/08/yes-nasa-really-could-bring-starliners-astronauts-back-on-crew-dragon/ The truth of the matter is noone on this board can say one way or the other what's happening or going to happen. Anyone in the know aint on this board spitting known facts of the matter from behind closed doors. However in a historical context the Gov, Nasa and Boeing all have a storied histories of not being upfront or truthful about the comings and goings of their affairs. To which in certain situations have cost the lives of both pilots and passengers. But it certainly does not instil confidence that this was an 8 day flight turned into 2 weeks then assured that the craft was certified to be on station for up to 45 days and when they were close to meeting that they recertified it for longer and have now blown past some 50 something days in space with out a verified return date. Then you add that nasa paid Space X some quarter of a million to investigate the feasibility of a rescue launch profile and shit just kind of lines up that, yet again, you are not getting the straight truth from those in charge. I ain't got stock in either company so i just hope they come home safe. And i'm a big supporter of multiple spacecraft for redundancy. Now that we wont use a soyez we need to be space independent of any other country and in cases like this where something happened, a plan B is important. |
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Posted: 8/2/2024 7:41:53 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delemorte: Ive seen you say this before but you never address the elephant in the room. Which of those two crafts has the ability to depressurize and re-pressurize in orbit right now? Which one of those vessels is currently built to deal with an EVA? how do you connect those two space ships so you can support a transport of crew with out drift or crushing someone? Those are soft suits not meant for a vacuum, they are meant to deal with sudden cabin depressurization. So without the needed cooling and support structures of the suit, how do they deal with the temps and vacuum of space without turning into that kid from a christmas story. Alexei Leonov found out using a suit built for it. His answer was to depressurize his suit so he could get back in his capsule and it almost killed him. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delemorte: Originally Posted By backbencher: Stayliner can't get stuck in space. It will come back to earth sooner or later. You just want to get back before the oxygen runs out. And while the suits may not be rated for hours of EVA in space, they're pressure suits and would get you into Dragon in a pinch. Given SpaceX is planning an EVA shortly, it sure sounds like they have the capabilities to either depressurize Dragon or can hang an airlock off of it. Ive seen you say this before but you never address the elephant in the room. Which of those two crafts has the ability to depressurize and re-pressurize in orbit right now? Which one of those vessels is currently built to deal with an EVA? how do you connect those two space ships so you can support a transport of crew with out drift or crushing someone? Those are soft suits not meant for a vacuum, they are meant to deal with sudden cabin depressurization. So without the needed cooling and support structures of the suit, how do they deal with the temps and vacuum of space without turning into that kid from a christmas story. Alexei Leonov found out using a suit built for it. His answer was to depressurize his suit so he could get back in his capsule and it almost killed him. Dragon; Dragon; Zip ties, obviously; A pressure suit kinda inherently deals w/ the vacuum of space. The temps are the issue, but if you're going from spacecraft to spacecraft we're not talking a 5 hour EVA. If the alternative is running out of oxygen before yer orbit decays there's probably a lot of incentive to switch teams mid-flight. |
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Posted: 8/2/2024 7:43:09 PM EDT
[#7]
Boeing has turned into such a shit show
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 8/4/2024 2:16:38 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 8/4/2024 3:32:39 PM EDT
[#9]
If true, wow.
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Posted: 8/4/2024 3:43:48 PM EDT
[#10]
Boeing should stick to making planes.
Space X is such a boss. I would vote for Elon to be POTUS if that was possible. |
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Posted: 8/4/2024 3:50:00 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By farfromhome: Boeing should stick to making planes. Space X is such a boss. I would vote for Elon to be POTUS if that was possible. Yeah, they've been doing great with that too. They need some corporate introspection before they drive a once great company completely into the ground. |
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Posted: 8/4/2024 3:50:01 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BlueCoyote: Boeing has turned into such a shit show The longer this goes on the more money they lose and the more stupid they look. That said if they wind up killing 2 astronauts in some ham fisted attempt at a coverup that would probably be as Mr Smithers said. "Crossing the line between normal everyday evil and cartoonish super evil." |
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Posted: 8/4/2024 3:52:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Hesperus]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Yeah, they've been doing great with that too. They need some corporate introspection before they drive a once great company completely into the ground. I think they are going to ride Boeing into the ground like Major Kong. As long as the executives get their golden parachutes deposited into an offshore bank account and a guaranteed job doing the same shit at some other corporation. The cycle will continue. They have zero incentive to do otherwise. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 8/4/2024 3:59:43 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Yeah, they've been doing great with that too. They need some corporate introspection before they drive a once great company completely into the ground. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By farfromhome: Boeing should stick to making planes. Space X is such a boss. I would vote for Elon to be POTUS if that was possible. Yeah, they've been doing great with that too. They need some corporate introspection before they drive a once great company completely into the ground. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/how-boeing-lost-its-bearings/602188/ https://www.yahoo.com/tech/1997-merger-paved-way-boeing-090042193.html In a clash of corporate cultures, where Boeing's engineers and McDonnell Douglas's bean-counters went head-to-head, the smaller company won out. The result was a move away from expensive, ground-breaking engineering and toward what some called a more cut-throat culture, devoted to keeping costs down and favoring upgrading older models at the expense of wholesale innovation. Only now, with the 737 indefinitely grounded, are we beginning to see the scale of its effects. "The fatal fault line was the McDonnell Douglas takeover," says Clive Irving, author of Jumbo: The Making of the Boeing 747. "Although Boeing was supposed to take over McDonnell Douglas, it ended up the other way around." |
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Posted: 8/4/2024 5:54:36 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crownvic96: Boeing died when the fuckheads at McD-D took over in that shitfest of a merger. . It's been downhill ever since. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/how-boeing-lost-its-bearings/602188/ https://www.yahoo.com/tech/1997-merger-paved-way-boeing-090042193.html Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crownvic96: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By farfromhome: Boeing should stick to making planes. Space X is such a boss. I would vote for Elon to be POTUS if that was possible. Yeah, they've been doing great with that too. They need some corporate introspection before they drive a once great company completely into the ground. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/how-boeing-lost-its-bearings/602188/ https://www.yahoo.com/tech/1997-merger-paved-way-boeing-090042193.html In a clash of corporate cultures, where Boeing's engineers and McDonnell Douglas's bean-counters went head-to-head, the smaller company won out. The result was a move away from expensive, ground-breaking engineering and toward what some called a more cut-throat culture, devoted to keeping costs down and favoring upgrading older models at the expense of wholesale innovation. Only now, with the 737 indefinitely grounded, are we beginning to see the scale of its effects. "The fatal fault line was the McDonnell Douglas takeover," says Clive Irving, author of Jumbo: The Making of the Boeing 747. "Although Boeing was supposed to take over McDonnell Douglas, it ended up the other way around." Dupont is doing the same shit after that merger with Dow. They're still a little earlier in the process is all. |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 10:21:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AeroE]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crownvic96: Boeing died when the fuckheads at McD-D took over in that shitfest of a merger. . It's been downhill ever since. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/how-boeing-lost-its-bearings/602188/ https://www.yahoo.com/tech/1997-merger-paved-way-boeing-090042193.html Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crownvic96: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By farfromhome: Boeing should stick to making planes. Space X is such a boss. I would vote for Elon to be POTUS if that was possible. Yeah, they've been doing great with that too. They need some corporate introspection before they drive a once great company completely into the ground. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/how-boeing-lost-its-bearings/602188/ https://www.yahoo.com/tech/1997-merger-paved-way-boeing-090042193.html In a clash of corporate cultures, where Boeing's engineers and McDonnell Douglas's bean-counters went head-to-head, the smaller company won out. The result was a move away from expensive, ground-breaking engineering and toward what some called a more cut-throat culture, devoted to keeping costs down and favoring upgrading older models at the expense of wholesale innovation. Only now, with the 737 indefinitely grounded, are we beginning to see the scale of its effects. "The fatal fault line was the McDonnell Douglas takeover," says Clive Irving, author of Jumbo: The Making of the Boeing 747. "Although Boeing was supposed to take over McDonnell Douglas, it ended up the other way around." Boeing was selling every airplane at a loss in 1997, and the engineering prowess and quality is a myth. But a MDA takeover by an evil cabal of accountants is an easy argument. Almost three decades have passed since Boeing bought MDA, a target sweetened by that over funded retirement program, one of JS McDonnell's legacies. An engineer's legacy. The CEO at the buyout was a legacy Boeing employee. A fine manager that went to prison for ethics behavior that is shot through the company. Condit's Legacy. The condition of the corporation now cannot be blamed on the buyout, it's the fault of a bureaucracy and corrupt culture that dates to the 1980's at minimum. Before I retired I described Boeing culture as a mix of Alice in Wonderland, 1984, and the East German Surveillance Society. The machinery has no doubt improved. The next few years in Boeing Defense will be interesting. I predict high cost extremely low rate production of one or two F-15 variants, probably the same for F-18 whether the Navy wants them or not, and after this initial F-18 SLM grind and polish I won't be surprised by a run of new wings and empennage, and likely a new forward fuselage in the early 203O's. There will be one major cockpit upgrade to install what should have been a 2025 cockpit. If the Dims get control of f Washington, Boeing Defense will probably be reduced to building JDAM kits and maybe the prime subcontractor in LM's next fighter. With NGAD stalled, watch for retirements from St. Louis engineering this coming winter.  |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 8/5/2024 10:54:48 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LoBrau: Dupont is doing the same shit after that merger with Dow. They're still a little earlier in the process is all. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LoBrau: Originally Posted By crownvic96: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By farfromhome: Boeing should stick to making planes. Space X is such a boss. I would vote for Elon to be POTUS if that was possible. Yeah, they've been doing great with that too. They need some corporate introspection before they drive a once great company completely into the ground. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/how-boeing-lost-its-bearings/602188/ https://www.yahoo.com/tech/1997-merger-paved-way-boeing-090042193.html In a clash of corporate cultures, where Boeing's engineers and McDonnell Douglas's bean-counters went head-to-head, the smaller company won out. The result was a move away from expensive, ground-breaking engineering and toward what some called a more cut-throat culture, devoted to keeping costs down and favoring upgrading older models at the expense of wholesale innovation. Only now, with the 737 indefinitely grounded, are we beginning to see the scale of its effects. "The fatal fault line was the McDonnell Douglas takeover," says Clive Irving, author of Jumbo: The Making of the Boeing 747. "Although Boeing was supposed to take over McDonnell Douglas, it ended up the other way around." Dupont is doing the same shit after that merger with Dow. They're still a little earlier in the process is all. Similar with Honeywell and Allied Signal. In that case, the latter's con-artist executives took over and screwed up the former. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 8/5/2024 12:32:51 PM EDT
[#18]
NASA likely to significantly delay the launch of Crew 9 due to Starliner issues
NASA is planning to significantly delay the launch of the Crew 9 mission to the International Space Station due to ongoing concerns about the Starliner spacecraft currently attached to the station. While the space agency has not said anything publicly, sources say NASA should announce the decision this week. Officials are contemplating moving the Crew-9 mission from its current date of August 18 to September 24, a significant slip. https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/08/nasa-likely-to-significantly-delay-the-launch-of-crew-9-due-to-starliner-issues/ |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 12:56:32 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SamBoga: NASA likely to significantly delay the launch of Crew 9 due to Starliner issues NASA is planning to significantly delay the launch of the Crew 9 mission to the International Space Station due to ongoing concerns about the Starliner spacecraft currently attached to the station. While the space agency has not said anything publicly, sources say NASA should announce the decision this week. Officials are contemplating moving the Crew-9 mission from its current date of August 18 to September 24, a significant slip. https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/08/nasa-likely-to-significantly-delay-the-launch-of-crew-9-due-to-starliner-issues/ Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SamBoga: NASA likely to significantly delay the launch of Crew 9 due to Starliner issues NASA is planning to significantly delay the launch of the Crew 9 mission to the International Space Station due to ongoing concerns about the Starliner spacecraft currently attached to the station. While the space agency has not said anything publicly, sources say NASA should announce the decision this week. Officials are contemplating moving the Crew-9 mission from its current date of August 18 to September 24, a significant slip. https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/08/nasa-likely-to-significantly-delay-the-launch-of-crew-9-due-to-starliner-issues/  The Crew 9 delay is relevant to the Starliner dilemma for a couple of reasons. One, it gives NASA more time to determine the flight-worthiness of Starliner. However, there is also another surprising reason for the delay—the need to update Starliner’s flight software. Three separate, well-placed sources have confirmed to Ars that the current flight software on board Starliner cannot perform an automated undocking from the space station and entry into Earth’s atmosphere. At first blush, this seems absurd. After all, Boeing’s Orbital Flight Test 2 mission in May 2022 was a fully automated test of the Starliner vehicle. During this mission, the spacecraft flew up to the space station without crew on board and then returned to Earth six days later. Although the 2022 flight test was completed by a different Starliner vehicle, it clearly demonstrated the ability of the program's flight software to autonomously dock and return to Earth. Boeing did not respond to a media query about why this capability was removed for the crew flight test. It is not clear what change Boeing officials made to the vehicle or its software in the two years prior to the launch of Wilmore and Williams. It is possible that the crew has to manually press an undock button in the spacecraft, or the purely autonomous software was removed from coding on board Starliner to simplify its software package. Regardless, sources described the process to update the software on Starliner as "non-trivial" and "significant," and that it could take up to four weeks. This is what is driving the delay to launch Crew 9 later next month. |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 1:02:30 PM EDT
[#20]
LOL.
"this seems absurd" Yes, yes it does. |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 1:18:28 PM EDT
[#21]
...cannot perform an automated undocking from the space station... So if this capsule, that they are having problems with, became a danger to the station... 
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Posted: 8/5/2024 1:20:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kharn]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SamBoga: NASA likely to significantly delay the launch of Crew 9 due to Starliner issues NASA is planning to significantly delay the launch of the Crew 9 mission to the International Space Station due to ongoing concerns about the Starliner spacecraft currently attached to the station. While the space agency has not said anything publicly, sources say NASA should announce the decision this week. Officials are contemplating moving the Crew-9 mission from its current date of August 18 to September 24, a significant slip. https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/08/nasa-likely-to-significantly-delay-the-launch-of-crew-9-due-to-starliner-issues/ Buying time for SpaceX to sew them new suits, or because Starliner is occupying the docking port and they can't get someone to make the decision on an occupied or unoccupied return? Did they consider the automated undocking code a flight safety risk, if it executed uncommanded when the occupants weren't ready? Kharn |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 1:20:48 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By klinc: So if this capsule, that they are having problems with, became a danger to the station... Heh, forget the deorbit vehicle. They might have to contract with SpaceX for some kind of honest to god version of this to get the damn thing off the station.  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 1:28:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: FreefallRet]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By klinc: So if this capsule, that they are having problems with, became a danger to the station... Whoever made that capsule needs to be beat |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 1:31:22 PM EDT
[#25]
Put a brick on the accelerator, jump and roll.
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Posted: 8/5/2024 1:34:56 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FreefallRet: I guess one person does a manual detach, exits the spacecraft and makes a spacewalk back to the station. Since they don’t have those jet pack systems on EVA suits anymore I suppose that spacewalker is going to have to flap their arms really, really hard. 
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Posted: 8/5/2024 1:49:25 PM EDT
[#27]
Boeing did not respond to a media query about why this capability was removed for the crew flight test. Boeing: 
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USA
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Posted: 8/5/2024 1:55:45 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m200maker: It's a Boeing what could possibly go wrong?
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Posted: 8/5/2024 2:08:02 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SamBoga:
A bit of a white pill: That this is the situation and the option of hiring a rocket from an eccentric billionaire immigrant genius is on the table... That gives me a bit of hope. |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 2:15:19 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Since they don’t have those jet pack systems on EVA suits anymore I suppose that spacewalker is going to have to flap their arms really, really hard. Load up with beans in chili and fart your way to safety! |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 2:28:07 PM EDT
[#31]
It has literally become a fox body mustang on cinder blocks outside the ISS and it can’t get moved.
It is blocking a key docking port on the station. What a piece of shit. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/5/2024 2:33:05 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By midwinter: A bit of a white pill: That this is the situation and the option of hiring a rocket from an eccentric billionaire immigrant genius is on the table... That gives me a bit of hope. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/5/2024 2:44:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: PeepEater]
[#33]
At some point Boeing is going to figure out that if they kill them in space they can't testify at the follow up hearing.
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Posted: 8/5/2024 2:45:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Heh, forget the deorbit vehicle. They might have to contract with SpaceX for some kind of honest to god version of this to get the damn thing off the station. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/383325/27D0D83B-CBE0-4E98-ACC5-9321B264E922_jpe-3286465.JPG I think, the bigger overview question to ask here is: Is NASA covering for Boeing (insomuch as it can) because it MUST be multi-source for Commercial Crew. (I forget, Sierra-Nevada's Dreamchaser isn't in that program?) And "NASA is ultimately doing it for NASA's benefit," and not Boeing's? Or, is NASA doing it for "Boeing's benefit," or politic$ & backscratching-patronage stuff that has Boeing's back? Maybe even straight up ideological PC/SJW things, because instead of the whole finger-pointing debate over: "McDonnel Douglas merger's to blame, vs. Boeing's corp. culture was sick and borked way before that." There's potentially DEI AND "bean counting" with racial/ethnic overtones, like "offshore code" like the 737MAX debacle? I mean... if "Please do the needful"-code scraped from GitHub, bodged through Reddit questions, and a little ChatGPT 1.0Beta did make its way into Starliner, or, Idunno, someone with a Boeing WFH gig sent his VPN credentials over there for a cut while they played Fortnite instead... there's some damn awkward ITAR problems. Cause, well, "Space capsule shit" is in broad terms, "MIRV shit" too. |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 2:47:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: Put a brick on the accelerator, jump and roll. Got dangit, the fact that I immediately thought 'that won't work, no gravity' and then realized the joke wasn't even as absurd as some of the facts of this situation is depressing as hell |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/5/2024 2:49:42 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alien: We'll just call it an extended stay. Your username / avatar posting in this thread makes one’s imagination run wild
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Posted: 8/5/2024 2:55:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Hesperus]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJ_Dual: ZOMG... Thank you @Hesperus that was my legit laugh for the day. I think, the bigger overview question to ask here is: Is NASA covering for Boeing (insomuch as it can) because it MUST be multi-source for Commercial Crew. (I forget, Sierra-Nevada's Dreamchaser isn't in that program?) And "NASA is ultimately doing it for NASA's benefit," and not Boeing's? Or, is NASA doing it for "Boeing's benefit," or politic$ & backscratching-patronage stuff that has Boeing's back? Maybe even straight up ideological PC/SJW things, because instead of the whole finger-pointing debate over: "McDonnel Douglas merger's to blame, vs. Boeing's corp. culture was sick and borked way before that." There's potentially DEI AND "bean counting" with racial/ethnic overtones, like "offshore code" like the 737MAX debacle? I mean... if "Please do the needful"-code scraped from GitHub, bodged through Reddit questions, and a little ChatGPT 1.0Beta did make its way into Starliner, or, Idunno, someone with a Boeing WFH gig sent his VPN credentials over there for a cut while they played Fortnite instead... there's some damn awkward ITAR problems. Cause, well, "Space capsule shit" is in broad terms, "MIRV shit" too. You're welcome. I can't take full credit though. Wangstang came up with it after I suggested Elon send a Starship up there to swallow it. As for why NASA and Boeing are handling it like they are. I chalk it up to regulatory capture. The same people going back and forth between Boeing, NASA, the FAA and a few other bureaucracies trying to cover for each other as much as they can. There are already some amusing conspiracy theories floating around about Starliner and in the absence of actionable information, conspiracies abound. Sierra Space isn't ready to launch Dream Chaser just yet. They are still doing some testing on it and if that testing prevents them from screwing up like this then it makes them look pretty darn good by comparison. I expect in the next few years we will have a few more options for manned orbital launch systems. But the ISS will probably be decommissioned before they can be certified. So I suppose we are muddling along like this for awhile. |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 4:34:04 PM EDT
[#38]
A someone who is not following this thing as closely as some of you: What's killing Boeing in the eye of public perception (IMO) is the message that "All is well, we are just checking things out". I get that they are being very careful and all that, but if public perception plays into Boeing's future as a viable space company, then they're absolutely doing themselves no favors by being so nebulous.
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USA
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Posted: 8/5/2024 4:48:09 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: It has literally become a fox body mustang on cinder blocks outside the ISS and it can't get moved. It is blocking a key docking port on the station. What a piece of shit. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/5/2024 4:50:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By midwinter: A bit of a white pill: That this is the situation and the option of hiring a rocket from an eccentric billionaire immigrant genius is on the table... That gives me a bit of hope.  |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 5:03:27 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bubbatheredneck: Elon should claim salvage rights to both the Starliner and the ISS. Elon wants Mars and the ISS won't help him get there. It's in an unsuitable orbit to be used as an orbital refueling depot and even if it was in a good orbit for that. Its not a structure suited to being rebuilt as an enormous flying gas station. See Michael Bay's Armageddon for what can go wrong when a space station becomes a fuel depot.
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Posted: 8/5/2024 6:24:15 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJ_Dual: ZOMG... Thank you @Hesperus that was my legit laugh for the day. I think, the bigger overview question to ask here is: Is NASA covering for Boeing (insomuch as it can) because it MUST be multi-source for Commercial Crew. (I forget, Sierra-Nevada's Dreamchaser isn't in that program?) And "NASA is ultimately doing it for NASA's benefit," and not Boeing's? Or, is NASA doing it for "Boeing's benefit," or politic$ & backscratching-patronage stuff that has Boeing's back? Maybe even straight up ideological PC/SJW things, because instead of the whole finger-pointing debate over: "McDonnel Douglas merger's to blame, vs. Boeing's corp. culture was sick and borked way before that." There's potentially DEI AND "bean counting" with racial/ethnic overtones, like "offshore code" like the 737MAX debacle? I mean... if "Please do the needful"-code scraped from GitHub, bodged through Reddit questions, and a little ChatGPT 1.0Beta did make its way into Starliner, or, Idunno, someone with a Boeing WFH gig sent his VPN credentials over there for a cut while they played Fortnite instead... there's some damn awkward ITAR problems. Cause, well, "Space capsule shit" is in broad terms, "MIRV shit" too. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJ_Dual: Originally Posted By Hesperus: Heh, forget the deorbit vehicle. They might have to contract with SpaceX for some kind of honest to god version of this to get the damn thing off the station. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/383325/27D0D83B-CBE0-4E98-ACC5-9321B264E922_jpe-3286465.JPG I think, the bigger overview question to ask here is: Is NASA covering for Boeing (insomuch as it can) because it MUST be multi-source for Commercial Crew. (I forget, Sierra-Nevada's Dreamchaser isn't in that program?) And "NASA is ultimately doing it for NASA's benefit," and not Boeing's? Or, is NASA doing it for "Boeing's benefit," or politic$ & backscratching-patronage stuff that has Boeing's back? Maybe even straight up ideological PC/SJW things, because instead of the whole finger-pointing debate over: "McDonnel Douglas merger's to blame, vs. Boeing's corp. culture was sick and borked way before that." There's potentially DEI AND "bean counting" with racial/ethnic overtones, like "offshore code" like the 737MAX debacle? I mean... if "Please do the needful"-code scraped from GitHub, bodged through Reddit questions, and a little ChatGPT 1.0Beta did make its way into Starliner, or, Idunno, someone with a Boeing WFH gig sent his VPN credentials over there for a cut while they played Fortnite instead... there's some damn awkward ITAR problems. Cause, well, "Space capsule shit" is in broad terms, "MIRV shit" too. Sierra Space /Sierra Nevada Corp only has NASA contracts for resupply missions, but they have said all along they plan on a crewed version. |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 8:12:31 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJ_Dual: ZOMG... Thank you @Hesperus that was my legit laugh for the day. I think, the bigger overview question to ask here is: Is NASA covering for Boeing (insomuch as it can) because it MUST be multi-source for Commercial Crew. (I forget, Sierra-Nevada's Dreamchaser isn't in that program?) And "NASA is ultimately doing it for NASA's benefit," and not Boeing's? Or, is NASA doing it for "Boeing's benefit," or politic$ & backscratching-patronage stuff that has Boeing's back? Maybe even straight up ideological PC/SJW things, because instead of the whole finger-pointing debate over: "McDonnel Douglas merger's to blame, vs. Boeing's corp. culture was sick and borked way before that." There's potentially DEI AND "bean counting" with racial/ethnic overtones, like "offshore code" like the 737MAX debacle? I mean... if "Please do the needful"-code scraped from GitHub, bodged through Reddit questions, and a little ChatGPT 1.0Beta did make its way into Starliner, or, Idunno, someone with a Boeing WFH gig sent his VPN credentials over there for a cut while they played Fortnite instead... there's some damn awkward ITAR problems. Cause, well, "Space capsule shit" is in broad terms, "MIRV shit" too. I’m guessing NASA was told “you’re GOING to make this happen” but, they know they’re finished if these two go boing off the atmosphere. They’re not going to accept Boeing’s word that “we THINK it should work”. |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 8:19:26 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Elon wants Mars and the ISS won't help him get there. It's in an unsuitable orbit to be used as an orbital refueling depot and even if it was in a good orbit for that. Its not a structure suited to being rebuilt as an enormous flying gas station. See Michael Bay's Armageddon for what can go wrong when a space station becomes a fuel depot.  Attached File |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 8/5/2024 8:20:43 PM EDT
[#45]
Waiting for Elon to offer to take the head of NASA and the CEO of Boeing up to the station in the Dragon. They then get to decide if they'll take the Starliner or Dragon back down.
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Posted: 8/6/2024 10:16:26 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: A someone who is not following this thing as closely as some of you: What's killing Boeing in the eye of public perception (IMO) is the message that "All is well, we are just checking things out". I get that they are being very careful and all that, but if public perception plays into Boeing's future as a viable space company, then they're absolutely doing themselves no favors by being so nebulous. That is a cultural inability to tell truth. Innovative distortion and obfuscation is rewarded. |
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Posted: 8/6/2024 11:46:40 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Elon wants Mars and the ISS won't help him get there. It's in an unsuitable orbit to be used as an orbital refueling depot and even if it was in a good orbit for that. Its not a structure suited to being rebuilt as an enormous flying gas station. See Michael Bay's Armageddon for what can go wrong when a space station becomes a fuel depot. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck: Elon should claim salvage rights to both the Starliner and the ISS. Elon wants Mars and the ISS won't help him get there. It's in an unsuitable orbit to be used as an orbital refueling depot and even if it was in a good orbit for that. Its not a structure suited to being rebuilt as an enormous flying gas station. See Michael Bay's Armageddon for what can go wrong when a space station becomes a fuel depot. But being a taxi driver pays the bills while you're building your dream under a tarp in the backyard.  Kharn |
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Posted: 8/6/2024 12:05:23 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kharn: But being a taxi driver pays the bills while you're building your dream under a tarp in the backyard. Kharn Oh certainly, also it's easier to get to low Earth orbit than to go to Mars. His ambitions are enormous and the experiences of the past 20 years have taught him and humanity a lot of valuable lessons as we move off world. But clearly we have a ways left to go before we become a multi-planetary species. One of the most important lessons seems to be don't lie or try to cover up problems under layers of bureaucracy. |
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Posted: 8/6/2024 3:29:51 PM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 8/6/2024 10:40:51 PM EDT
[#50]
 NASA has been hiding a shocking secret about Starliner! How did this happen?? |
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