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Posted: 7/7/2023 9:23:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Speaking strictly from my own perspective, some weapons are more trouble than they are worth. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You're assuming your enemy is as disciplined. Speaking strictly from my own perspective, some weapons are more trouble than they are worth. Especially when they're hot when sitting on the shelf. |
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Posted: 7/7/2023 9:29:54 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Johnson Island wasn’t the only stockpile. I did a lot of work at the Pine Bluff Arsenal and they had plenty of their own.  Ft McClellan, Ala |
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Posted: 7/7/2023 9:30:14 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Johnson Island wasn’t the only stockpile. I did a lot of work at the Pine Bluff Arsenal and they had plenty of their own. Small world, we sold a lot of stuff to you guys while that was still going on. @frog_legs |
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Posted: 7/7/2023 9:30:55 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s great. We are leading the way! Rah Rah! Is any other country complying? Is there any verification? If some one used their stockpile on us, we are phukt. We will have no retaliation in kind. Thanks Joe for handing us over so easily. Don’t spend it all in one place. Whatever paint chips you didn't eat as a child, we can drop those on our enemy. To great effect. Apparently. |
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Posted: 7/7/2023 9:31:49 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote History"no public carrier would accept it for transportation" WTF would you dispose of sodium like that? Couldn't it be sold into the commercial market in smaller quantities? |
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Posted: 7/7/2023 9:32:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: . really? remember Big Lou and Paintball? how about a red dog tag from 763? who had a zebra pic on his GP ID card? . Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I was stationed on a site in West Germany that had a stockpile. I was there when they were shipped to Johnston. Fun times. really? remember Big Lou and Paintball? how about a red dog tag from 763? who had a zebra pic on his GP ID card? .  Attached FileI do remember the doctors at the 763rd were Major Kramp and Captain Finger. Sick call wasn't popular. |
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Posted: 7/7/2023 9:35:20 PM EDT
[#7]
I remember sailing near Johnston Atoll and hoping we weren't close enough to get a whiff of that stuff.
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Posted: 7/7/2023 9:43:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It seems that it required the designing and manufacturing of a lot of specialized equipment. Somewhere there's a documentary that details the robotic process of dismantling mustard gas artillery rounds from WW2. Which leaves me wondering how they made industrial quantities this shit back in those days. I suppose we have different standards for safe working conditions. Out at Dugway Proving Grounds they have historic pictures on the walls of one of the Admin buildings. One picture shows two guys in hip waders standing in a metal tank up to their mid thighs in mustard gas. No other PPE but the hip waders. Temperature was low enough that there is no vapor, but if you slip it's a shit way to die. |
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Posted: 7/7/2023 9:51:06 PM EDT
[#9]
I wonder if Johnston Island is still active
I got threatened with duty assignment there, heard good and bad about it but t mostly bad |
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Posted: 7/7/2023 9:54:48 PM EDT
[#10]
They could pop that shit off in the Pech river valley and do humanity a favor
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Posted: 7/7/2023 9:57:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Out at Dugway Proving Grounds they have historic pictures on the walls of one of the Admin buildings. One picture shows two guys in hip waders standing in a metal tank up to their mid thighs in mustard gas. No other PPE but the hip waders. Temperature was low enough that there is no vapor, but if you slip it's a shit way to die. That's one of the more disturbing things I've read on this site. Shocking and yet not surprising. |
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Posted: 7/7/2023 10:00:00 PM EDT
[#12]
May as well we are too pussy to use them anymore anyway.
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Posted: 7/7/2023 10:04:24 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 7/7/2023 10:11:28 PM EDT
[#14]
VX nerve gas testing on a goat
 Footage Of Nerve Gas Testing On A Goat - 1964 |
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Posted: 7/7/2023 10:13:03 PM EDT
[#15]
Been going on for a long time. About time they finished up. Doubt we ever really has a warplan that involved heavy use of them anytime in the last 30-40 years since we consider nukes a fair alternative to it, I suppose we don't have need for them anymore and I'd bet upkeep/maintenance was a bitch (assuming we still have a nuke=chem=bio stance, I vaguely recall that going away at some point?)
I think I still have an couple ATNAA (sp?) sitting around here actually from when I came back from deployment and they didn't take them...Wonder when that shit expires |
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Posted: 7/7/2023 10:16:00 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryWouldn’t it just turn to Salt and other harmless sodium compounds? Why did we have barrels of pure sodium for wartime? |
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Posted: 7/7/2023 10:16:34 PM EDT
[#17]
   The US military dropped off its last batch of artillery shells carrying deadly VX nerve agent to be destroyed |
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Posted: 7/7/2023 10:17:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It probably would have been cheaper to give them to Ukraine than to safely dismantle them. 
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Posted: 7/7/2023 10:20:09 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/02/25/world/25nerveagent-1/25nerveagent-1-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale https://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/TWCNews/EKU_VX_nerve_agent_0608_ky https://media.defense.gov/2022/May/18/2003000637/-1/-1/0/211101-D-D0439-1001.JPG The US military dropped off its last batch of artillery shells carrying deadly VX nerve agent to be destroyed https://i.insider.com/60957cc334af8d001859c116?width=853&format=jpeg The irony of that last picture of them pushing those VX munitions around while wearing face diapers is not lost on me. |
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Posted: 7/8/2023 7:56:54 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The irony of that last picture of them pushing those VX munitions around while wearing face diapers is not lost on me. I'm sure that a permeable cloth mask would have saved the goat in the video who got hit with VX.
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Posted: 7/8/2023 8:11:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "no public carrier would accept it for transportation" WTF would you dispose of sodium like that? Couldn't it be sold into the commercial market in smaller quantities? Sure. How do you suggest making it "smaller quantities"? A guy with a chainsaw? |
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Posted: 7/8/2023 8:13:26 PM EDT
[#22]
but have we really?
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Posted: 7/8/2023 8:13:29 PM EDT
[#23]
I'll keep a pilot plant open for personal use and to sell IP to the feds when they realize they need them again.
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Posted: 7/8/2023 8:28:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I played paintball. I don't recall Big Lou or who had a zebra pic on his ID. Somewhere around here I still have my red dog tag. I went looking for it and it wasn't where I thought it was, but I did find some artifacts. Sanitized pictures below. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/74363/PXL_20230708_004146273_MP_2__2__jpg-2877533.JPG I do remember the doctors at the 763rd were Major Kramp and Captain Finger. Sick call wasn't popular. remember Bowman flipping the M1025? how about that SGT in CO HQ with orange skin and white hair... or what happened to Scrappy? . |
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Posted: 7/8/2023 8:30:39 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Been going on for a long time. About time they finished up. Doubt we ever really has a warplan that involved heavy use of them anytime in the last 30-40 years since we consider nukes a fair alternative to it, I suppose we don't have need for them anymore and I'd bet upkeep/maintenance was a bitch (assuming we still have a nuke=chem=bio stance, I vaguely recall that going away at some point?) I think I still have an couple ATNAA (sp?) sitting around here actually from when I came back from deployment and they didn't take them...Wonder when that shit expires ROKs v Norks was about it, these days. Get the Koksan crews into MOPP-4 and slow down the rate of shelling Seoul. Or spray VX over an area they'll have to march through to get to Seoul. But that's about it. Too many bad things start happening when WMD-equipped nations start flicking them at each other. OTOH, knowing what we know now, Saddam probably should have flipped the switch. Assuming he had the capability. Not like we could hang him twice. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 1:48:41 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure. How do you suggest making it "smaller quantities"? A guy with a chainsaw? But metallic sodium is difficult to deal with and there aren't a lot of high volume uses for it. It is also easy to make and it is extremely abundant. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 1:56:56 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The irony of that last picture of them pushing those VX munitions around while wearing face diapers is not lost on me. They have their m40 slung. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 2:12:07 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: These shells were really old, probably not all that viable in combat. Just for the record. True, but their contents are still quite dangerous. The US builds far flung factories full of battle robots to dispose of a few hundred thousand shells. The French just stack their chemical UXO between antitank mines for a good burn when they detonate them on the beach. 
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Posted: 7/9/2023 2:24:04 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: but have we really? This. They would t have gotten rid of them if they didn’t have something more effective available. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 4:02:34 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Metallic elemental sodium is very soft and can easily be cut by hand with a pocket knife. But metallic sodium is difficult to deal with and there aren't a lot of high volume uses for it. It is also easy to make and it is extremely abundant. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Sure. How do you suggest making it "smaller quantities"? A guy with a chainsaw? But metallic sodium is difficult to deal with and there aren't a lot of high volume uses for it. It is also easy to make and it is extremely abundant. So your plan is "guy with a pocket knife" will just carve the appropriate size chunks off a 10' cube as orders come in? Neat. I've cut sodium with a pocket knife. I've burned it, thrown it in water, sealed it in glass, boiled it, squished it between my fingers, and more. If I had a flatbed of sodium that I was professionally responsible for and no carrier would accept it and I had a dead lake and no EPA, you bet your ass that shits going right in there. It's the economical choice. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 4:04:27 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: True, but their contents are still quite dangerous. The US builds far flung factories full of battle robots to dispose of a few hundred thousand shells. The French just stack their chemical UXO between antitank mines for a good burn when they detonate them on the beach. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: These shells were really old, probably not all that viable in combat. Just for the record. True, but their contents are still quite dangerous. The US builds far flung factories full of battle robots to dispose of a few hundred thousand shells. The French just stack their chemical UXO between antitank mines for a good burn when they detonate them on the beach. All chemical weapons are the same and the disposal method used for century old formulas work on modern formulas just fine with literally no problem. -You |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 4:05:35 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So your plan is "guy with a pocket knife" will just carve the appropriate size chunks off a 10' cube as orders come in? Neat. I've cut sodium with a pocket knife. I've burned it, thrown it in water, sealed it in glass, boiled it, squished it between my fingers, and more. If I had a flatbed of sodium that I was professionally responsible for and no carrier would accept it and I had a dead lake and no EPA, you bet your ass that shits going right in there. It's the economical choice. If I was professionally responsible for it I might even advocate for it's disposal slightly outside of purely fiscal concerns. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 4:07:31 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All chemical weapons are the same and the disposal method used for century old formulas work on modern formulas just fine with literally no problem. -You It's mustard. It's a century old formula. I'm sure you could differentiate ww1 German mustard gas from ww2 US mustard gas chemically, but I assure you it's disposal and it's effect on anyone exposed to it will be largely indistinguishable in any useful sense. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 4:10:37 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I was professionally responsible for it I might even advocate for it's disposal slightly outside of purely fiscal concerns. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So your plan is "guy with a pocket knife" will just carve the appropriate size chunks off a 10' cube as orders come in? Neat. I've cut sodium with a pocket knife. I've burned it, thrown it in water, sealed it in glass, boiled it, squished it between my fingers, and more. If I had a flatbed of sodium that I was professionally responsible for and no carrier would accept it and I had a dead lake and no EPA, you bet your ass that shits going right in there. It's the economical choice. If I was professionally responsible for it I might even advocate for it's disposal slightly outside of purely fiscal concerns. You haven't lived until you've partied with airborne, molten, flaming sodium or potassium. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 4:11:22 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's mustard. It's a century old formula. I'm sure you could differentiate ww1 German mustard gas from ww2 US mustard gas chemically, but I assure you it's disposal and it's effect on anyone exposed to it will be largely indistinguishable in any useful sense. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: All chemical weapons are the same and the disposal method used for century old formulas work on modern formulas just fine with literally no problem. -You It's mustard. It's a century old formula. I'm sure you could differentiate ww1 German mustard gas from ww2 US mustard gas chemically, but I assure you it's disposal and it's effect on anyone exposed to it will be largely indistinguishable in any useful sense. Then let's just blow it up wherever we find it. No possible downsides. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 4:14:35 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then let's just blow it up wherever we find it. No possible downsides. That aint quite the Demineur protocol. ETA- they have a nice section of beach with a big tidal throw. When the tide goes down they excavate some trenches in the sand and stack pallets of UXO, chemical shells nestled amongst large explosive components like AT mines. When the tide comes back in they blow it. I don't know of any issues with this method of disposal but I assume some cranky euro would've vomited up some stupid opinion of such if it was in any way a problem. You're completely right if you're raging that nerve gasses are nowhere in this mixture and I don't disagree with remote sites demilitarizing nerve agents, but they're just getting rid of old mustard shells. All of the nerve shit should be years in the past. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 4:27:05 PM EDT
[#37]
Well at least we aren't piling these up in obsolete cargo ships, taking them out in the ocean then cutting holes and sinking em.
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Posted: 7/9/2023 4:27:43 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well at least we aren't piling these up in obsolete cargo ships, taking them out in the ocean then cutting holes and sinking em. Lol, true. Operation CHASE was a hoot. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 4:29:54 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That VX will have come in handy for a couple hundred million screaming Chinamen here in a few years… We can make more. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 5:24:26 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So your plan is "guy with a pocket knife" will just carve the appropriate size chunks off a 10' cube as orders come in? Neat. I've cut sodium with a pocket knife. I've burned it, thrown it in water, sealed it in glass, boiled it, squished it between my fingers, and more. If I had a flatbed of sodium that I was professionally responsible for and no carrier would accept it and I had a dead lake and no EPA, you bet your ass that shits going right in there. It's the economical choice. If you needed to portion it, you would do so with mechanized slicers or, more likely, just heat it to the melting point which is less than 209F and mold it. But as my second sentence pointed out, it isn't used in enormous volumes and is easy to make, so having huge volumes for war effort, probably meant it wasn't practical to keep around. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 5:34:20 PM EDT
[#41]
I wonder what they were planning to do with all that metallic sodium during WW2? Use it to make bombs?
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Posted: 7/9/2023 5:53:36 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well at least we aren't piling these up in obsolete cargo ships, taking them out in the ocean then cutting holes and sinking em. The solution to pollution is dilution. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 5:56:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of course not. You were the one that offered the stupid suggestion of using a chain saw when it is a very soft material. If you needed to portion it, you would do so with mechanized slicers or, more likely, just heat it to the melting point which is less than 209F and mold it. But as my second sentence pointed out, it isn't used in enormous volumes and is easy to make, so having huge volumes for war effort, probably meant it wasn't practical to keep around. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So your plan is "guy with a pocket knife" will just carve the appropriate size chunks off a 10' cube as orders come in? Neat. I've cut sodium with a pocket knife. I've burned it, thrown it in water, sealed it in glass, boiled it, squished it between my fingers, and more. If I had a flatbed of sodium that I was professionally responsible for and no carrier would accept it and I had a dead lake and no EPA, you bet your ass that shits going right in there. It's the economical choice. If you needed to portion it, you would do so with mechanized slicers or, more likely, just heat it to the melting point which is less than 209F and mold it. But as my second sentence pointed out, it isn't used in enormous volumes and is easy to make, so having huge volumes for war effort, probably meant it wasn't practical to keep around. Sweet. Lemme buy some one time use mechanical slicers or stand up a inert atmosphere crucible for a couple truckloads of scrap. It isn't economically viable, they made the right call to ditch the bitch |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 5:58:59 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The irony of that last picture of them pushing those VX munitions around while wearing face diapers is not lost on me. That was during covid. Don't want to covid over vx nerve gas.
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Posted: 7/9/2023 6:02:09 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was during covid. Don't want to covid over vx nerve gas. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The irony of that last picture of them pushing those VX munitions around while wearing face diapers is not lost on me. That was during covid. Don't want to covid over vx nerve gas. It's a SCAMDEMIC pushed by the GLOBOHOMOS to make people SUBMIT to their CLAWT SHAWT. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 6:02:37 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a SCAMDEMIC pushed by the GLOBOHOMOS to make people SUBMIT to their CLAWT SHAWT. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The irony of that last picture of them pushing those VX munitions around while wearing face diapers is not lost on me. That was during covid. Don't want to covid over vx nerve gas. It's a SCAMDEMIC pushed by the GLOBOHOMOS to make people SUBMIT to their CLAWT SHAWT. SAFE EFFECTIVE |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 6:05:14 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We should have kept them in my opinion. I don't trust our enemies have gotten rid of theirs. These shells were old….and getting older. Many had began to leak. I lived and played just outside the incinerator in Tooele, Utah. Tooele had the largest stockpile of these weapons in the country. Sirens installed for miles around…you know-just in case. Good riddance to those nasty pos weapons. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 6:18:03 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It probably would have been cheaper to give them to Ukraine than to safely dismantle them. And what exactly would they do with them? It sure as hell not be using them on the Russians. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 7:02:39 PM EDT
[#49]
Wait, that's good, that's good, I like that. But it may not evacuate everybody. There's always some joker who thinks he's immune. What I need is something so scary it'll clear three hundred square miles of every living Christian soul. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 7:11:12 PM EDT
[#50]
From what I have read, chemical weapons are not that useful. They make good terror weapons but do not have much tactical use. In WW1 they achieved nothing with them despite extensive use by both sides.
I am definitely glad the old stock was destroyed due to the significant risk of leaks and accidents. The binary agents were much more stable but not without their own problems. |
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