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Posted: 2/14/2024 10:44:21 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you want to learn about hardening your home, talk to the firefighters. At any rate. The best door would be a steel door, with thick ass hinges, that are somehow covered (or opens in and has cross bars) and is recessed. They will get in, they will just call the FD or get their armored car or armored bobcat. The FD and PD are not the people I am concerned with anyway. Same here. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 10:45:43 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah around here theyll just use the bearcat to rip down the whole wall That actually seems like option number 1 a lot around here for a barricaded subject  What fuckin' part of Indiana do you live in man! I grew up not far from Gary but sheesh! 
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Posted: 2/14/2024 10:47:27 AM EDT
[#3]
I saw a design once using a 2 inch thick steel door on what looked like suspension coil springs off an old truck or something.
You could pound on the thing all day long and it just gives and snaps back. Of course, if the door doesn't open, unless the house is made out of concrete, the walls, roof and windows represent significant vulnerabilities.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 10:47:49 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Breacher strip laughs at hardened door construction. Murder cage or punji pit laughs at the guys rushing through the hole they just made. Cops are lucky most criminals are lazy incompetent and stupid. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 10:50:02 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Murder cage or punji pit laughs at the guys rushing through the hole they just made. Cops are lucky most criminals are lazy incompetent and stupid. I saw that once in the 80's....drug dealer had a simple security door and then interior door. But then once you got in the door you were in a cage and just made yourself an easy target. Not a house I'd want to live in but it was interesting to see. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 10:50:51 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know of local volunteer Fire Departments that have a door frame "stretcher". You mount it in the door and it pushes the frame apart enough to just push the door open, regardless of how strong it is. It's just a ram, usually hydraulic (these days with a portable tool battery powered pump instead of a hand pump), you can also use a HiLift but they're heavy. I've been in at least one house here and overseas where there were screens on the window (so the you couldn't toss anything in or just put a hook on a security bar and pull) and the door and door frame was metal set into cinder block walls while the security bars (plural) slid into place, not just dropped down like the old castle style, so any attempts to spread the door frame were going to be met with resistance. It would have taken explosive breaching to get in or ram one of those penetrator/spike attack nozzles through the wall punch a hole and pump in whatever chemical agent you decided to use and drive the occupants out if they didn't have equipment for that or an escape route. The one overseas supposedly had an improvised, inexpensive system over the front and rear entrances that would have decimated any entry team stacked up. Lots of ways to skin that cat if you're creative, especially if you have money. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 10:50:52 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What fuckin' part of Indiana do you live in man! I grew up not far from Gary but sheesh! Its not that bad around here 
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Posted: 2/14/2024 10:51:32 AM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 2/14/2024 10:52:55 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I saw a design once using a 2 inch thick steel door on what looked like suspension coil springs off an old truck or something. You could pound on the thing all day long and it just gives and snaps back.  That's a great idea. A door with just ever so little give to it can be fucking maddening to pop. Been there, done that. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 10:54:37 AM EDT
[#10]
Just a note, security bars on your windows/doors will kill you in a fire. I've see two elderly couples burn to death in this way, bodies found on the floor below the window.
It's not even effective. Burglars routinely pull them off with a car and a Harbor Freight tow strap. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 10:55:00 AM EDT
[#11]
The better flat doors in Israel are outward swing
With a reinforced overlapping edge and three way bolting on three edges They aren’t built that way to keep the police out though |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 10:55:04 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think OP is confusing incompetence with hardened targets. Short of a cinder-block structure with steel doors and door frames, any reasonably-competent breaching team is coming in. They'd be there for a while. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 10:55:26 AM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 2/14/2024 10:57:45 AM EDT
[#14]
Put the ram on the Bearcat. This way you don't break the house or scratch the paint on the BC.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:00:51 AM EDT
[#15]
Chainsaw to the wall sounds quick.
You’d probably freak if you realized how easy some could gain entry if they didn't care about damaging anything. Used to work for a door/window company. In R&D we did destructive testing in a wind/pressure chamber. Sometimes those doors and windows are stronger than the wall they are installed in. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:00:56 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At best you’re buying a moment when someone is trying to break in. You can rub the boogers out of your eyes and load a lot of mags in a moment though |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:02:01 AM EDT
[#17]
I built a house last year for a client that would frustrate anyone trying to breach it. Walls are 12 inch core ICF. Both entry doors are solid steel and so is the frame that’s anchored into the concrete walls. He made the doors and they are impressive. As always the windows would be the weak point. But your not driving a bearcat through the wall and I doubt any normal cities swat team has the explosives to cut through a wall.
ICF houses are becoming very common here. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:03:17 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My dad's house has a solid steel door and it's not facing parallel to the street it is perpendicular because he says that way it can't be easily pulled off by a vehicle with a chain. That door is just a decoy though because it opens up into an entrance where the real door to enter his house is. My dad is really paranoid that someone is out to get him some day. I told him one time that he should build a trap door in the floor of his entrance room that can open up and drop intruders into a deep pit. He told me he had already thought about that. So what you're saying is to get the job done, the man has to breach your dad's second wall 
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:03:55 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just a note, security bars on your windows/doors will kill you in a fire. I've see two elderly couples burn to death in this way, bodies found on the floor below the window. There was a guy at the basement window, trapped by fire. He burned to death right in front of them as they were cutting the bars off the window. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:04:03 AM EDT
[#20]
We always invited at least one Firefighter to our police MOE classes
The FF's would often stand around and laugh at the Keystone Kops who couldn't be taught anything new 
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:04:25 AM EDT
[#21]
Swat will literally rip the front of your house off, seen it happen here locally when some dude kidnapped a kid a block away.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:05:42 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Breacher strip laughs at hardened door construction. Punji pit on the other side of the door laughs at the #1&2 man |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:08:34 AM EDT
[#23]
There are companies who sell level IV security doors; but you must also install an equivalent wall system. These systems are designed to delay a determined aggressor for 15 minutes. Think embassy safe room and such. They are also $$$$.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:08:57 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My dad's house has a solid steel door and it's not facing parallel to the street it is perpendicular because he says that way it can't be easily pulled off by a vehicle with a chain. That door is just a decoy though because it opens up into an entrance where the real door to enter his house is. My dad is really paranoid that someone is out to get him some day. I told him one time that he should build a trap door in the floor of his entrance room that can open up and drop intruders into a deep pit. He told me he had already thought about that. He already built the pit trap, you just didn't have the security clearance to be informed of it. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:13:15 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol no it does not Theyll just use the bearcat that they all rolled up in https://www.lencoarmor.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/6444-Charcoal-Grey-G3-em-EDIT.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZNwqc6mr2N0/maxresdefault.jpg I take it you have never worked in the construction and design side of the business. That Bear Cat would be useless in the situation you applying it to if the facility was designed correctly. I have installed barriers that were designed to stop a 65,000 pound truck traveling 65 mph and not sustaining structural damage to the barrier. One of the facilities had a street racer hit one of the barriers in a Mustang. They had to cut the Mustang off of the barrier. All that was required was a repaint of the barrier. These facilities protection measures were added after 911. They are in your cities across America and the protections measures are hidden in plain sight. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:13:18 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Explosive breaching for the win. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:13:41 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Punji pit on the other side of the door laughs at the #1&2 man Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Breacher strip laughs at hardened door construction. Punji pit on the other side of the door laughs at the #1&2 man There are more effective ways to decimate a stacked breaching team; I'll let you do your own research (I'm not talking about using explosives either). There's a reason why EMS and fire are not the agencies that make entry into certain houses- the cops get paid to take those risks. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:14:36 AM EDT
[#28]
I've run into a few doors that were monsters to get through. But there is 1 complex in my city that has doors that are crazy hard. They are metal frame and door with traditional locks, plus 4 1 inch pins that go into the metal frame when locked. They can take 2 hydra-rams and several haligan bars to get through
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:15:59 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I take it you have never worked in the construction and design side of the business. That Bear Cat would be useless in the situation you applying it to if the facility was designed correctly. I have installed barriers that were designed to stop a 65,000 pound truck traveling 65 mph and not sustaining structural damage to the barrier. And this was a average bros home? The fact of the matter is that a granny can breach 99.999999% of GDs home with her Buick Now do it with trained bored SWAT bros who are an hour away from end of shift and a gauntlet of tax payer funded specifically designed breaching tools Sure hardened homes may deter petty criminals But 18,0000 lb bearcat just goes brr straight through your concrete wall with a battering ram |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:18:10 AM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:18:33 AM EDT
[#31]
Have you ever seen the "bend it and send it" method of door removal?
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:18:40 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think OP is confusing incompetence with hardened targets. Short of a cinder-block structure with steel doors and door frames, any reasonably-competent breaching team is coming in. When I had just joined my volunteer dept some turds lot a concession stand on fire that was concrete and steel. I got put on the door with the vast knowledge I had just learned in my FF1 class. That door kicked my ass. I was drenched in sweat before we made it in. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:18:54 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or go through a window. Or multiple windows simultaneously. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:20:03 AM EDT
[#34]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:20:42 AM EDT
[#35]
Cause I'm not issued or allowed to use det cord & C4.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:20:52 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whatever method you guys choose just remember old people mistaking the gas and brake pedal can breach buildings more sturdy than most homes with zero training https://www.rlsmedia.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/field/image/article/img_3198.jpg?itok=IWG3BYeu Idjit driver can't read and I don't know how the driver passed the written portion of the driving exam. It says Drive-Thru, not Drive-In. 
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:21:10 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Explosive breaching for the win. Not if it destroys the facility and the occupants inside. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:22:22 AM EDT
[#38]
I always thought a water mist system, flooded sump area etc with 200 amps would be good to counter an emergent breach.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:22:51 AM EDT
[#39]
Why do most of the videos of breeching failure never have a dude hitting the hinges and lock with a slug
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:23:40 AM EDT
[#40]
Steel frames mortared in place. Multiple drop bars of steel or heavy timber. Steel bar that slides into the foundation to wedge the door shut.
You just have to advance your methods if you want in bad enough. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:24:02 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And this was a average bros home? The fact of the matter is that a granny can breach 99.999999% of GDs home with her Buick Now do it with trained bored SWAT bros who are an hour away from end of shift and a gauntlet of tax payer funded specifically designed breaching tools Sure hardened homes may deter petty criminals But 18,0000 lb bearcat just goes brr straight through your concrete wall with a battering ram I agree; but the original question as I understood it, is can it be done. The answer is yes you can design it to delay a breaching; but the reality is can you afford to do it. The easiest and simplest way is to instal multiple barriers. All it does is buy you time. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:24:13 AM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:24:33 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Theyll just tear your wall down if they cant get through the door Not when the wall is 20 plus inches thick of masonry. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:24:56 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And this was a average bros home? The fact of the matter is that a granny can breach 99.999999% of GDs home with her Buick Now do it with trained bored SWAT bros who are an hour away from end of shift and a gauntlet of tax payer funded specifically designed breaching tools Sure hardened homes may deter petty criminals But 18,0000 lb bearcat just goes brr straight through your concrete wall with a battering ram Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I take it you have never worked in the construction and design side of the business. That Bear Cat would be useless in the situation you applying it to if the facility was designed correctly. I have installed barriers that were designed to stop a 65,000 pound truck traveling 65 mph and not sustaining structural damage to the barrier. And this was a average bros home? The fact of the matter is that a granny can breach 99.999999% of GDs home with her Buick Now do it with trained bored SWAT bros who are an hour away from end of shift and a gauntlet of tax payer funded specifically designed breaching tools Sure hardened homes may deter petty criminals But 18,0000 lb bearcat just goes brr straight through your concrete wall with a battering ram We have the technology  :max_bytes(150000):strip_icc():focal(749x0:751x2)/car-crashes-into-house-041923-4-020f0c4810a54a02856dc71b9edd1fcb.jpg)
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:25:28 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Breacher strip laughs at hardened door construction. yeah some like to go splody |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:26:40 AM EDT
[#46]
A certain Texas middle school comes to mind
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:26:51 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree; but the original question as I understood it, is can it be done. The answer is yes you can design it to stop a breaching; but the reality is can you afford to do it. The easiest and simplest way is to instal multiple barriers. All it does is buy you time. Ill concede there as its true But it would have to be designed from the ground up 3" screws in your frame(as mentioned in the OP) aint stopping swat |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:27:15 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I take it you have never worked in the construction and design side of the business. That Bear Cat would be useless in the situation you applying it to if the facility was designed correctly. I have installed barriers that were designed to stop a 65,000 pound truck traveling 65 mph and not sustaining structural damage to the barrier. One of the facilities had a street racer hit one of the barriers in a Mustang. They had to cut the Mustang off of the barrier. All that was required was a repaint of the barrier. These facilities protection measures were added after 911. They are in your cities across America and the protections measures are hidden in plain sight. No one is living in what you describe. There are houses so cheap I've seen a drunk on a riding lawn mower breach a bedroom wall.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:27:58 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I had just joined my volunteer dept some turds lot a concession stand on fire that was concrete and steel. I got put on the door with the vast knowledge I had just learned in my FF1 class. That door kicked my ass. I was drenched in sweat before we made it in. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think OP is confusing incompetence with hardened targets. Short of a cinder-block structure with steel doors and door frames, any reasonably-competent breaching team is coming in. When I had just joined my volunteer dept some turds lot a concession stand on fire that was concrete and steel. I got put on the door with the vast knowledge I had just learned in my FF1 class. That door kicked my ass. I was drenched in sweat before we made it in. But you did make it in. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:28:54 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Btw, this is the one I was talking about from overseas...   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cVug3bxXrMThat’s where Leon lives. More bad than corn pop. |
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