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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 1:38:13 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pcsutton:
Leads me to believe he was in the process of swinging the bat when the ol' boy capped him. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pcsutton:
Originally Posted By bagofcrabs65:
Hit him after he fired the gun. He went aftet them with the bat, got plugged and decided he didn't want more and threw the bat. It's not rocket surgery. The son fucked up but old pops original shots were good to go. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 1:39:18 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trueweltall: https://image.ibb.co/jwPQ7K/Not_All_Heros_Wear_Capes_Bully2_1537523246.png |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 1:42:38 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 9/21/2018 1:48:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GreyHat: It was legally inadvisable...and possibly uncivilized, by white collar suburbanite standards. Modernist victim morality prefers outsourcing norm enforcement to minimize skin in the game wherever possible. But can it be really be called wrong in a nation founded on the concept of standing your ground? https://i.postimg.cc/Kvbq6FYP/1537543863078.jpg |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 1:49:46 PM EDT
[#5]
It use to be suicide by cop, now we have a new one..
Suicide by white trash. I think the shooters fate rest on the quality of the public defender, they don't look like they can afford a lawyer, especially a good one. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 1:50:37 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sixpack595:
It can definitely be called dumb as shit. The undisciplined, dumb underclass - arguably for those reasons - is the last bastion of early colonial honour culture. This is a rare opportunity to view the founding fathers in 1080p. It's what America used to be about. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 1:51:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KingRollo:
Because defending you and yours is bad, right? I don't know if orange shirt guy was on the ground or was he coming at them again? If he was on the ground, I see no need to blow his head apart with a shotgun. If he was still coming at him, then if the 2nd party rule takes affect then fat JR has the right to unload on him. I am not the juror, just my opinion and I watched the video once. Granted adrenaline was flying through fat JR, and if I had to guess I bet he wished he hadn't made that shot. That said, the world is rid of one less idiot he pushed it to the limit and lost.. Like I mentioned before, even if both parties walked away, and watching what was taking place between them this was not going to end that day. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 1:53:36 PM EDT
[#8]
Another case of a women getting her man killed by running her mouth and egging him on. With her knowing of his problems, maybe she's the one that should be facing charges.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 1:55:12 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JimmyAR: No not at all. I don't know if orange shirt guy was on the ground or was he coming at them again? If he was on the ground, I see no need to blow his head apart with a shotgun. If he was still coming at him, then if the 2nd party rule takes affect then fat JR has the right to unload on him. I am not the juror, just my opinion and I watched the video once. Granted adrenaline was flying through fat JR, and if I had to guess I bet he wished he hadn't made that shot. That said, the world is rid of one less idiot he pushed it to the limit and lost.. Like I mentioned before, even if both parties walked away, and watching what was taking place between them this was not going to end that day. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 1:57:48 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JimmyAR: No not at all. I don't know if orange shirt guy was on the ground or was he coming at them again? If he was on the ground, I see no need to blow his head apart with a shotgun. If he was still coming at him, then if the 2nd party rule takes affect then fat JR has the right to unload on him. I am not the juror, just my opinion and I watched the video once. Granted adrenaline was flying through fat JR, and if I had to guess I bet he wished he hadn't made that shot. That said, the world is rid of one less idiot he pushed it to the limit and lost.. Like I mentioned before, even if both parties walked away, and watching what was taking place between them this was not going to end that day. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 1:58:03 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 40xb:
I would rather deal with insurance and getting a new car that dealing with court and a long prison sentence. YMMV I'm not going to stand in the street and taunt the guy with a gun in my hand while someone records it. I am going to try to de-escalate, move to a place with a better defensive advantage, and wait for police to get there so I can file charges against the guy. Again YMMV. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 40xb:
Originally Posted By frayedknot:
Originally Posted By 40xb:
You know the more I think about this situation the more I think the Father and Son wanted to either "get it on" or were to damn stupid to understand what position they were in. I understand SYG and all that. Even though it is legal to stand where you are at and defend yourself that doesn't mean it is the smarter thing to do. Had they just backed up and covered each other until they got back to their home and called the police for the raving lunatic outside they wouldn't be in jail for murder charges. Both parties seemed to be in mutual combat mode, they were both instigating and taunting, one party just happened to bring a stick to a gun fight because he himself was a moron as well. With that said, calling the cops on crazy neighbors is a joke. It does zero to resolve the issue unless there is enough to put them away for a long time. That kind of thinking got my sister’s car firebombed in her yard just a few weeks ago. I'm not going to stand in the street and taunt the guy with a gun in my hand while someone records it. I am going to try to de-escalate, move to a place with a better defensive advantage, and wait for police to get there so I can file charges against the guy. Again YMMV. Getting a new car isn’t when you don’t have a lot of money...which is why you would be living in the ghetto. And then living in constant fear for your safety...and the safety of a little one who now can’t play outside. Sure, “you” don’t have to worry about that. Neither do I. So it’s hard to identify with the situation. But not everyone is like us. My only point is that in bad neighborhoods, cops can’t and don’t do shit to protect the good people. That’s just not how it works. **See Second Amendment.** Oh wait...the old guy was exercising his second amendment rights. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:01:01 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GreyHat:
200 years ago it would be called frontier justice. The undisciplined, dumb underclass - arguably for those reasons - is the last bastion of early colonial honour culture. This is a rare opportunity to view the founding fathers in 1080p. It's what America used to be about. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GreyHat:
Originally Posted By Sixpack595:
It can definitely be called dumb as shit. The undisciplined, dumb underclass - arguably for those reasons - is the last bastion of early colonial honour culture. This is a rare opportunity to view the founding fathers in 1080p. It's what America used to be about. 
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:02:10 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RR_Broccoli:
Some of us bring weapons/firearms to every interaction we have with anybody any day all day. Bringing a weapon means nothing. What state are you in? Go back to DU. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:02:17 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Miami_JBT:
Mayne Commando.... there is a scene where they kill a guy taking out the trash.  Garbage Day! (high quality) |
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:04:59 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By beardog296: Of course he was. If they were going to shoot over words they would have already done it. He went aftet them with the bat, got plugged and decided he didn't want more and threw the bat. It's not rocket surgery. The son fucked up but old pops original shots were good to go. "Box said John Miller walked up to her and put the handgun to her head, yelling at her to get on the ground. She said Michael Miller went over to Aaron’s brother, placed the shotgun to his head, and ordered him to the ground." https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/fort-worth/article218728710.html |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:07:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sanunan:
Just because you tell someone you are going to blow their brains out, doesn't make it legal. You seriously think "well I told that cocksucking faggot if he came within xxx feet of me I was going to shoot him, so I did" is a legit defense? I would be shocked if that held up in court. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sanunan:
Originally Posted By Flamicane:
Wife probably egged her husband on to "Act like a man!" based on her escalating the issue as well. Right or wrong, they warned the guy like 50 times. But when the other guy threatened repeatedly that he was going to kill both you and your father, was much bigger than you, had a history of violent outbursts and threatening interactions with regular people doing regular folks (like the post office worker), then I think you have a much better case of holding up a self-defense argument in court, than if you randomly tell someone not to cross a line or you will shoot them. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:08:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JimmyAR]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KingRollo:
If you don't know then why would you convict? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KingRollo:
Originally Posted By JimmyAR: No not at all. I don't know if orange shirt guy was on the ground or was he coming at them again? If he was on the ground, I see no need to blow his head apart with a shotgun. If he was still coming at him, then if the 2nd party rule takes affect then fat JR has the right to unload on him. I am not the juror, just my opinion and I watched the video once. Granted adrenaline was flying through fat JR, and if I had to guess I bet he wished he hadn't made that shot. That said, the world is rid of one less idiot he pushed it to the limit and lost.. Like I mentioned before, even if both parties walked away, and watching what was taking place between them this was not going to end that day. If it comes out orange shirt guy was 15 ft away and just standing there after he half ass'd threw the bat at fat dad shot and just looking at them, things would change for fat jr. Not knowing and lack of video, I guess the kid would walk. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:08:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bagofcrabs65:
Either party should have walked away. Both were on neutral ground. The ally was behind the house of the guy who was killed... The men with the firearms made clear their intentions. Then, they got emotionally involved, especially the son. He was making outright threats. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bagofcrabs65:
Originally Posted By Kiran04: Avoiding conflict is almost universally a good thing. If you had to resort to shooting someone, then that situation just sucked all around. If everyone walks away alive and unharmed, then it wasn't such a bad day. Some people just have no self control and are deluded beyond belief. This guy actually thought he could take two gunmen with guns already drawn on with just a baseball bat and school yard insults. Both were on neutral ground. The ally was behind the house of the guy who was killed... The men with the firearms made clear their intentions. Then, they got emotionally involved, especially the son. He was making outright threats. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:12:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JimmyAR: Had no idea there was the 2nd or 3rd party rule, honestly never heard of it. I just watched the shit show again, and I agree with what was said about the level of the shotgun being head high. That said not knowing how far fat jr and orange shirt were apart a lotta variables there as to if he was coming back at them or not. Fat jr is in a defensive position when he fired with no hesitation, so he must have felt threatened. If it comes out orange shirt guy was 15 ft away and just standing there shot looking at them, things would change for fat jr. Not knowing and lack of video, I guess the kid would walk. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:13:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike_Anthony:
Both father and son lost their rights to invoke a self defense claim once they provoked the victim, they committed murder, plain and simple. Then they tried to play policeman afterwards.... "Box said John Miller walked up to her and put the handgun to her head, yelling at her to get on the ground. She said Michael Miller went over to Aaron’s brother, placed the shotgun to his head, and ordered him to the ground." https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/fort-worth/article218728710.html Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike_Anthony:
Originally Posted By beardog296: Of course he was. If they were going to shoot over words they would have already done it. He went aftet them with the bat, got plugged and decided he didn't want more and threw the bat. It's not rocket surgery. The son fucked up but old pops original shots were good to go. "Box said John Miller walked up to her and put the handgun to her head, yelling at her to get on the ground. She said Michael Miller went over to Aaron’s brother, placed the shotgun to his head, and ordered him to the ground." https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/fort-worth/article218728710.html 
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:13:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike_Anthony:
Both father and son lost their rights to invoke a self defense claim once they provoked the victim, they committed murder, plain and simple. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike_Anthony:
Originally Posted By beardog296: Of course he was. If they were going to shoot over words they would have already done it. He went aftet them with the bat, got plugged and decided he didn't want more and threw the bat. It's not rocket surgery. The son fucked up but old pops original shots were good to go. They won't go down for 1st degree or 2nd degree murder. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:13:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KingRollo:
If someone was telling you multiple times they were going to kill you then proceeded to run at you with a baseball bat or made a feint lunge at you how many feet before good shoot? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KingRollo:
Originally Posted By JimmyAR: Had no idea there was the 2nd or 3rd party rule, honestly never heard of it. I just watched the shit show again, and I agree with what was said about the level of the shotgun being head high. That said not knowing how far fat jr and orange shirt were apart a lotta variables there as to if he was coming back at them or not. Fat jr is in a defensive position when he fired with no hesitation, so he must have felt threatened. If it comes out orange shirt guy was 15 ft away and just standing there shot looking at them, things would change for fat jr. Not knowing and lack of video, I guess the kid would walk. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:17:18 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By frayedknot:
That’s the easy part. Getting a new car isn’t when you don’t have a lot of money...which is why you would be living in the ghetto. And then living in constant fear for your safety...and the safety of a little one who now can’t play outside. Sure, “you” don’t have to worry about that. Neither do I. So it’s hard to identify with the situation. But not everyone is like us. My only point is that in bad neighborhoods, cops can’t and don’t do shit to protect the good people. That’s just not how it works. **See Second Amendment.** Oh wait...the old guy was exercising his second amendment rights. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By frayedknot:
Originally Posted By 40xb:
Originally Posted By frayedknot:
Originally Posted By 40xb:
You know the more I think about this situation the more I think the Father and Son wanted to either "get it on" or were to damn stupid to understand what position they were in. I understand SYG and all that. Even though it is legal to stand where you are at and defend yourself that doesn't mean it is the smarter thing to do. Had they just backed up and covered each other until they got back to their home and called the police for the raving lunatic outside they wouldn't be in jail for murder charges. Both parties seemed to be in mutual combat mode, they were both instigating and taunting, one party just happened to bring a stick to a gun fight because he himself was a moron as well. With that said, calling the cops on crazy neighbors is a joke. It does zero to resolve the issue unless there is enough to put them away for a long time. That kind of thinking got my sister’s car firebombed in her yard just a few weeks ago. I'm not going to stand in the street and taunt the guy with a gun in my hand while someone records it. I am going to try to de-escalate, move to a place with a better defensive advantage, and wait for police to get there so I can file charges against the guy. Again YMMV. Getting a new car isn’t when you don’t have a lot of money...which is why you would be living in the ghetto. And then living in constant fear for your safety...and the safety of a little one who now can’t play outside. Sure, “you” don’t have to worry about that. Neither do I. So it’s hard to identify with the situation. But not everyone is like us. My only point is that in bad neighborhoods, cops can’t and don’t do shit to protect the good people. That’s just not how it works. **See Second Amendment.** Oh wait...the old guy was exercising his second amendment rights. As discussed before if you want to shoot someone over trash and not make life easier on yourself by not dealing with a death investigation, trial, and jail/prison time go right on ahead. You can claim that the old guy was using his 2nd a right but obviously the DA's office and police know something that you don't which is why the guy and his son were arrested, jailed, and now awaiting a murder trial. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:17:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GreyHat]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sixpack595:
That's what they never tell you in the history books. America was founded on the hoodrat ideals of not being disrespected and killing each other over trash cans. Makes the guy who killed the other guy over who makes the best Kool Aid the spiritual successor to George Washington. Loyalists like Peter Oliver or Governor Hutchinson fisked the Declaration of Independence as a sarcastic poster today might mock Jesse Jackson's latest screed. These guys are underclass as fuck...but they're indisputably heritage Americana. Only a Puritan could hate them. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:19:58 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Drakich: Apparently, they should have let themselves get their brains bashed out. And he didn't have the bat at that point, and I do not know if he was running at fat jr or not. But if he was running at fat jr and then got shot in the head wouldn't the momentum keep him coming at fat jr and drop him at his feet? Looks to me he is laying on the ground and whats left of his head is laying in the opposite direction? |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:19:59 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dipper: The Dynamic Fat Duo had at least 2 minutes to leave the area before Mr. Orange shirt had any kind of weapon in his hands. They had every opportunity to leave the area but instead decided to stay and poke Mr. Orange shirt enough to the point that they could shoot him. They are not clean by any stretch of the imagination and were the first to bring weapons to the party. They were in total control of the situation and screwed up. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:21:06 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KingRollo:
If someone was telling you multiple times they were going to kill you then proceeded to run at you with a baseball bat or made a feint lunge at you how many feet before good shoot? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KingRollo:
Originally Posted By JimmyAR: Had no idea there was the 2nd or 3rd party rule, honestly never heard of it. I just watched the shit show again, and I agree with what was said about the level of the shotgun being head high. That said not knowing how far fat jr and orange shirt were apart a lotta variables there as to if he was coming back at them or not. Fat jr is in a defensive position when he fired with no hesitation, so he must have felt threatened. If it comes out orange shirt guy was 15 ft away and just standing there shot looking at them, things would change for fat jr. Not knowing and lack of video, I guess the kid would walk. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:21:23 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JimmyAR:
That's not at all what I said. And he didn't have the bat at that point, and I do not know if he was running at fat jr or not. But if he was running at fat jr and then got shot in the head wouldn't the momentum keep him coming at fat jr and drop him at his feet? Looks to me he is laying on the ground and whats left of his head is laying in the opposite direction? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JimmyAR:
Originally Posted By Drakich: Apparently, they should have let themselves get their brains bashed out. And he didn't have the bat at that point, and I do not know if he was running at fat jr or not. But if he was running at fat jr and then got shot in the head wouldn't the momentum keep him coming at fat jr and drop him at his feet? Looks to me he is laying on the ground and whats left of his head is laying in the opposite direction? |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:21:28 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JimmyAR: That's not at all what I said. And he didn't have the bat at that point, and I do not know if he was running at fat jr or not. But if he was running at fat jr and then got shot in the head wouldn't the momentum keep him coming at fat jr and drop him at his feet? Looks to me he is laying on the ground and whats left of his head is laying in the opposite direction? |
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:21:36 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike_Anthony:
Both father and son lost their rights to invoke a self defense claim once they provoked the victim, they committed murder, plain and simple. Then they tried to play policeman afterwards.... "Box said John Miller walked up to her and put the handgun to her head, yelling at her to get on the ground. She said Michael Miller went over to Aaron’s brother, placed the shotgun to his head, and ordered him to the ground." https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/fort- worth/article218728710.html Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike_Anthony:
Originally Posted By beardog296: Of course he was. If they were going to shoot over words they would have already done it. He went aftet them with the bat, got plugged and decided he didn't want more and threw the bat. It's not rocket surgery. The son fucked up but old pops original shots were good to go. "Box said John Miller walked up to her and put the handgun to her head, yelling at her to get on the ground. She said Michael Miller went over to Aaron’s brother, placed the shotgun to his head, and ordered him to the ground." https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/fort- worth/article218728710.html And I don't believe a word out of that cunt wife's mouth. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:23:04 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mikNtx: for reference, tueller drill is 21 ft. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:23:46 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Drakich: Nope. Victim was the aggressor. Were the shooters' words unwise? Sure, but they were responding to aggressive provocation, not initiating it. They won't go down for 1st degree or 2nd degree murder. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:23:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Aimless]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By plowboy:
Why do they have to leave? Orange shirt crazy guy off his meds could have left also but he continued to say he was going to follow them and kill them. What do you when he says "I'll kill you later Jeopardy is on" and goes back to his trailer? |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:24:22 PM EDT
[#34]
Both parties should have just walked away. America wins tho...3 assholes off the street.
I'd have a hard time handing down a murder conviction if on jury however. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:25:36 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Drakich: Buckshot has a lot of momentum. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:26:04 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aimless:
So if some retard says he'll kill you you do what? Stay there until it escalates to a shooting or you die of old age? What do you when he says "I'll kill you later Jeopardy is on" and goes back to his trailer? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By plowboy:
Why do they have to leave? Orange shirt crazy guy off his meds could have left also but he continued to say he was going to follow them and kill them. What do you when he says "I'll kill you later Jeopardy is on" and goes back to his trailer? |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:27:13 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike_Anthony:
The father and son became the aggressors the moment they walked onto public property, armed with guns, to confront the victim. In case you are not aware, they were arrested for it.......if you know more about Texas law than the police and prosecutors, please feel free to call them and let them know that they made a mistake. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike_Anthony:
Originally Posted By Drakich: Nope. Victim was the aggressor. Were the shooters' words unwise? Sure, but they were responding to aggressive provocation, not initiating it. They won't go down for 1st degree or 2nd degree murder. Zimmerman the flim flam man was charged with murder too. He walked. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:29:59 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pcsutton:
The dead guy had a history of violent tendencies - including threatening to shoot the mailman just a couple weeks prior to this incident. The guy was a known lunatic both in the neighborhood and to police. You don't need any kind of weapon in your hands if your size and age give you a physical advantage over your victim. It's called 'disparity of force'. Your assertion that they had 2 minutes to leave isn't legally relevant. They were under no legal obligation to retreat. It appears the old man was trying to comply with the local trash pick-up regulations by removing the mattress from the dumpster per those regulations. That apparently brought the violent lunatic out to confront them. From what I can gather, the old guy was carrying a pistol when he went out to remove the mattress from the dumpster. It's unclear when he felt compelled to draw his weapon, but obviously something occurred by which he felt threatened. It also appears that was junior's cue to go retrieve the shotgun to back up his father. Once the father was confronted by a younger and much larger threat...he had no obligation to retreat, nor was it out of line for him to draw his weapon. Given the father's advanced age, the dead guy's predilection for threatening deadly violence as his solution for all things which upset him, the age and size differences, and the concept of 'disparity of force'...I fail to see the father's use of deadly force as being wrong. Junior fucked up letting himself be goaded into the 3rd grader shit he displayed. I don't know if that escalated the conflict or not, but given the violent history of the dead guy...I'm not sure it matters much. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:30:57 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KingRollo:
If someone was telling you multiple times they were going to kill you then proceeded to run at you with a baseball bat or made a feint lunge at you how many feet before good shoot? When I first watched the video, it was clear to me who the out of control asshole was. He went out of his way to do every possible thing he could to escalate this into his death. I have to think as a juror, I'd operate on the very simple principle of 'who was the the asshole.' The video makes this abundantly clear. I expect that a typical juror from Abilene Texas will not be willing to parse this much further than I. Absent a videotaped confession from these guys where they say that they went out there EXPRESSLY to provoke & kill him, I'm folding my arms, sitting in the deliberation room for as long as it takes and saying "NOT GUILTY." Sorry to my fellow jurors, but I won't put these guys in prison for owning and carrying firearms or defending themselves against a brutally enraged man swinging and throwing a baseball bat, even if they are hardcore whiskey tangos or are shitheads in some other way. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:31:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KingRollo]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike_Anthony: The father and son became the aggressors the moment they walked onto public property, armed with guns, to confront the victim. In case you are not aware, they were arrested for it.......if you know more about Texas law than the police and prosecutors, please feel free to call them and let them know that they made a mistake. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:31:26 PM EDT
[#41]
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:32:29 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By plowboy:
Why do they have to leave? Orange shirt crazy guy off his meds could have left also but he continued to say he was going to follow them and kill them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By plowboy:
Originally Posted By Dipper: The Dynamic Fat Duo had at least 2 minutes to leave the area before Mr. Orange shirt had any kind of weapon in his hands. They had every opportunity to leave the area but instead decided to stay and poke Mr. Orange shirt enough to the point that they could shoot him. They are not clean by any stretch of the imagination and were the first to bring weapons to the party. They were in total control of the situation and screwed up. Now they are charged with murder and will have extensive legal bills at the very least. This is the hill to die on. A dispute over garbage. This shit right here and other similar acts is what is going to get the "stand muh ground" law changed. It wasn't meant for this shit. NORMAL everyday people ain't going to put up with this shit. My bet is you are going to find out exactly why the dynamic shirtless duo should have left. But then, you'll come up with many excuses on how and why the dynamic duo got screwed by the legal system. This isn't a simple matter of the fat asses being attack by a nut and then they had to shoot. There is MUCH more to this altercation. Fat asses are going down. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:32:50 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fargo007: Papa gave him all the way up to three feet away. That's plenty close to do someone split second harm. When I first watched the video, it was clear to me who the out of control asshole was. He went out of his way to do every possible thing he could to escalate this into his death. I have to think as a juror, I'd operate on the very simple principle of 'who was the the asshole.' The video makes this abundantly clear. I expect that a typical juror from Abilene Texas will not be willing to parse this much further than I. Absent a videotaped confession from these guys where they say that they went out there EXPRESSLY to provoke & kill him, I'm folding my arms, sitting in the deliberation room for as long as it takes and saying "NOT GUILTY." Sorry to my fellow jurors, but I won't put these guys in prison for owning and carrying firearms or defending themselves against a brutally enraged man swinging and throwing a baseball bat, even if they are hardcore whiskey tangos or are shitheads in some other way. 
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:32:55 PM EDT
[#44]
This will never not be funny.
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:34:30 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LRShooter:
It use to be suicide by cop, now we have a new one.. Suicide by white trash. I think the shooters fate rest on the quality of the public defender, they don't look like they can afford a lawyer, especially a good one. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:34:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aimless:
being told to put trash back in the can sure sounds like a reason to draw down Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By Pike:
According to the UK Daily Mail, Orange shirt was the one bossing the Elder Pear around trying to force him to put the mattress BACK in the trashcan [which is against published Abilene solid waste rules] and that is when the elder pear first pulled his pistol. "Howard [orange] then told Miller to put the mattress back into the dumpster. Miller [Elder Pear] refused, then added some foul language. 'That's when John (Miller) pulled a pistol out of his shorts,' she [deceased's fiance] said." UK Daily Mail Just sayin’ |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:36:30 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Vik:
I could not convict them based on that video. They told him to leave. They told him not to advance on them or they would fire. They never actually threatened him other than to warn him not to advance past 3 feet. Orange shirt dead guy, repeatedly stated he would kill both of them, over and over and over again. He was twice their size and strength. He was facing two armed men, yet, he retrieved, brandished and advance on the two armed men with a baseball bat. He ended up DRT as per the warning. Not saying it was a good shoot, but I would not convict. Dude tried acting tough in front of his old lady and it cost him his life. Can't help but think that the dumb bastard's poor kids are probably going to end up watching this video eventually. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:36:39 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dipper:
I guess they really didn't HAVE TO leave. They were in control of the situation and armed . They could have left and avoided all the headaches they are facing now. No, they stayed and insisted on the "stand muh ground" mantra. Now they are charged with murder and will have extensive legal bills at the very least. This is the hill to die on. A dispute over garbage. This shit right here and other similar acts is what is going to get the "stand muh ground" law changed. It wasn't meant for this shit. NORMAL everyday people ain't going to put up with this shit. My bet is you are going to find out exactly why the dynamic shirtless duo should have left. But then, you'll come up with many excuses on how and why the dynamic duo got screwed by the legal system. This isn't a simple matter of the fat asses being attack by a nut and then they had to shoot. There is MUCH more to this altercation. Fat asses are going down. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dipper:
Originally Posted By plowboy:
Originally Posted By Dipper: The Dynamic Fat Duo had at least 2 minutes to leave the area before Mr. Orange shirt had any kind of weapon in his hands. They had every opportunity to leave the area but instead decided to stay and poke Mr. Orange shirt enough to the point that they could shoot him. They are not clean by any stretch of the imagination and were the first to bring weapons to the party. They were in total control of the situation and screwed up. Now they are charged with murder and will have extensive legal bills at the very least. This is the hill to die on. A dispute over garbage. This shit right here and other similar acts is what is going to get the "stand muh ground" law changed. It wasn't meant for this shit. NORMAL everyday people ain't going to put up with this shit. My bet is you are going to find out exactly why the dynamic shirtless duo should have left. But then, you'll come up with many excuses on how and why the dynamic duo got screwed by the legal system. This isn't a simple matter of the fat asses being attack by a nut and then they had to shoot. There is MUCH more to this altercation. Fat asses are going down. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:37:49 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ske714:
He said, "Come on, take a swing" repeatedly. What is YOUR definition of "provoke"? |
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 2:37:53 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By flpickupman:
There’s a pretty good chance he didn’t state his request in a calm, rational manner. Just sayin’ Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By flpickupman:
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By Pike:
According to the UK Daily Mail, Orange shirt was the one bossing the Elder Pear around trying to force him to put the mattress BACK in the trashcan [which is against published Abilene solid waste rules] and that is when the elder pear first pulled his pistol. "Howard [orange] then told Miller to put the mattress back into the dumpster. Miller [Elder Pear] refused, then added some foul language. 'That's when John (Miller) pulled a pistol out of his shorts,' she [deceased's fiance] said." UK Daily Mail Just sayin’ |
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