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Posted: 6/3/2019 3:51:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think some folks interpreting this the wrong way. IF I read what GB is saying correctly - Brownells does NOT now own or is a partner in ARFCOM. Rather ARFCOM is now owned by the 2nd adventure holding company. Which also owns Brownells. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Will Brownells mention this or publicize AR15.com? Just looked on their website and Facebook page, no mention so far. IF I read what GB is saying correctly - Brownells does NOT now own or is a partner in ARFCOM. Rather ARFCOM is now owned by the 2nd adventure holding company. Which also owns Brownells. 
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Posted: 6/3/2019 3:52:14 PM EDT
[#2]
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As far as I'm concerned, this transition to corporate ownership can only end for this site in exactly one way: https://media.giphy.com/media/9mgfUcJmFgx7W/giphy.gif Seriously this is one FUCKED UP DECISION and I do not support it. 
I was about to renew my paid membership but I'm seriously rethinking that now. 
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Posted: 6/3/2019 3:52:38 PM EDT
[#3]
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What would the ham icon look like, though? A 400lb blob with two pocket protectors, slide rule, Coke bottle thick glasses, and a dozen HT radios attached to his tan tacticool vest and a truckers hat with his call sign in blinking LEDs? Oh yeah, and don't forget the powered scooter with the Skywarn megnetic signs plastered all over it.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And HAM icons? |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 3:52:57 PM EDT
[#4]
At least they didn't sell to Internet Brands.
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Posted: 6/3/2019 3:53:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Too much hyped up corporate speech to believe it's a good thing Give it a couple months and see where we are. See if your fears are coming true and if any new chaos threatens this place. |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 3:54:07 PM EDT
[#6]
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At least they didn't sell to Internet Brands. Actually I don't think I've ever seen a forum get sold and flourish... Ever? |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 3:54:14 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok so I look at it like ARFCOM just got access to a nice piggy bank, some amazing people, and a connection to a company focused on the 2A. What would you do if you had all that at your disposal and could enact change? Where does your mind go? What do you do first?  The Dark Knight Rises - The Fire Rises |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 3:54:22 PM EDT
[#8]
Any details on your plans?
Also can we still shitpost in GD? |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 3:54:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok so the best thing I can say is this. Give it a couple months and see where we are. See if your fears are coming true and if any new chaos threatens this place. 
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Posted: 6/3/2019 3:55:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, then, did I just pay Brownells to be an Industry Partner here? If so, that's genius on their part, maybe not so smart on my part. It's a legitimate concern going forward. Good for you guys (Avilas), you worked hard and got rewarded. |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 3:55:26 PM EDT
[#11]
Not sure what I think, but I can't say I've ever had a problem with Brownell's. They sell stuff, I buy it, it works as advertised. They're competent, in an Amazon.com way where their stuff ships when they say it will and I get it when they say I will. They're doing some cool stuff for the community with their retro rifles and the AR-180 stuff is interesting.
Put me in the 65% chance this is awesome, 35% chance of suck category. |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 3:56:33 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any details on your plans? Also can we still shitpost in GD? What's GD without shit posting. Although Aimless is out for blood today so watch your tail feathers. 
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Posted: 6/3/2019 3:58:15 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Plans for the evening or...? (Just going to try to find time to eat something. Maybe throw up a couple times. Otherwise sit here and try to answer questions and calm fears.) What's GD without shit posting. Although Aimless is out for blood today so watch your tail feathers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Any details on your plans? Also can we still shitpost in GD? What's GD without shit posting. Although Aimless is out for blood today so watch your tail feathers. 
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Posted: 6/3/2019 3:58:34 PM EDT
[#14]
Sorry, but I'm extremely pessimistic about this. I've not once witnessed a 'takeover' like this as a good thing. Sure, it's always stated 'nothing is going to change' and it doesn't for the first little while, then wham... it's over before you know it. I do want to say, IMO this is the best forum on the net and the community here (even though I've never met anyone) feels like a family. The collective knowledge is amazing and I've learned so much about so many different things. It's usually the first site I check daily and definitely spend most of my time on.
Nothing against the owners whatsoever, this is a business and should be treated as such. Does that make us a commodity? |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 3:59:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok so the best thing I can say is this. Give it a couple months and see where we are. See if your fears are coming true and if any new chaos threatens this place. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Too much hyped up corporate speech to believe it's a good thing Give it a couple months and see where we are. See if your fears are coming true and if any new chaos threatens this place. |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:00:34 PM EDT
[#16]
In every large group of great people like this one, there is always a small sub-set of naysayers and pessimists
I am not surprised to see some of you afraid of change.That has been the history of the world, and certainly that of Arfcom, but I urge you all to look up instead of down! If the same group of had been around the American colonies in 1776, they would be saying: -No country has beaten the British military and gotten independence..........ever! -If the revolution succeeds, it will become a tyranny, just like it has happened in every revolution before, blah,blah,blah! TL;DR version: Have some faith in what is being done and be positive!
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:00:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Plans for the evening or...? (Just going to try to find time to eat something. Maybe throw up a couple times. Otherwise sit here and try to answer questions and calm fears.) What's GD without shit posting. Although Aimless is out for blood today so watch your tail feathers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Any details on your plans? Also can we still shitpost in GD? What's GD without shit posting. Although Aimless is out for blood today so watch your tail feathers. And hooray for shitposting! |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:01:10 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In every large group of great people like this one, there is always a small sub-set of naysayers and pessimists I am not surprised to see some of you afraid of change.That has been the history of the world, and certainly that of Arfcom, but I urge you all to look up instead of down! If the same group of had been around the American colonies in 1776, they would be saying: -No country has beaten the British military and gotten independence..........ever! -If the revolution succeeds, it will become a tyranny, just like it has happened in every revolution before, blah,blah,blah! TL;DR version: Have some faith in what is being done and be positive! 
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:02:05 PM EDT
[#19]
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Our deal is a little different. They need us and we need them. In order for this thing to be successful, we invested in each other and we each took risks in each other. There are items in the relationship which allow us to have a big say on changes and there are things which protect them from us going rogue. In short, we are dedicated to making ARFCOM more of what it is and staying true to the community. That's the core of the entire thing. This was not a cash and run scenario and we NEVER would have agreed to anything like that. (I don't think they would have done so either.) This place is special because of everyone involved in it. WE all make arfcom great because of the spirit and love of the community. You are as important a piece of that as I am. These advertising companies who buy sites do not look at things like that. They look at how it is going to increase revenues and for how long. What does "we invested in each other" mean? Who bought who? What does "have a big say on changes" and "protected them from us going rogue" mean? Like if ARFcom went anti-gun and started organizing marches for Hogg's people? Or like if people kept posting memes that put the company in a bad light after twisted by news media if they're officially "associated with" ARFcom? Does "big say on changes" mean outright vetoes that would mess up site interfaces or change/alter/delete important sections of the site and thus the site maintains its integrity? Or does it mean you get to say "this wasn't part of the deal" and when Brownells alters the deal, and pray they don't alter it any further? |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:03:34 PM EDT
[#20]
What kind of discount do I get for changing my board name to BrownellsMcBrownellface?
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:03:58 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What do we do about the old chaos? There's an upper limit to chaos before it mystically becomes orderly again. |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:04:40 PM EDT
[#22]
So, does this mean no 20 year pin?
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:05:11 PM EDT
[#23]
I'm contacting the 2nd Adventure group directly. I want to become a MOD and there are quite a few people I want to suppress here...
Or maybe just have a coke...dunno yet. |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:06:02 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What kind of discount do I get for changing my board name to BrownellsMcBrownellface? |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:06:21 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: I think some folks interpreting this the wrong way. IF I read what GB is saying correctly - Brownells does NOT now own or is a partner in ARFCOM. Rather ARFCOM is now owned by the 2nd adventure holding company. Which also owns Brownells. Quoted: This is correct! Gold star for you!  (or a tank emoji!)The 2nd Adventure Group website does have AR15 listed on their site so there is that. Has Brownells mentioned or advertised that they are now owned by a holding company? No big deal, just curious how they were handling all of this. |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:06:38 PM EDT
[#26]
What are you going to do when the banks and credit card companies Force Brownells to divest of all the evil black rifles or no more credit card processing or loans?
And then they find out they are part of a coalition that owns a web site dedicated to the evil black rifle? |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:07:29 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just meant your ideas for the site to grow into. And hooray for shitposting! Uhm same as always. We actually have a lot in the works. Things like the new EE to make it easier to have a real (or hybrid) tool to list and sell stuff. Improvements to things people complain about. Increase content on all fronts (video and articles). New products and fun stuff. A lot of what we have spent years doing and things which have been on the list for far too long. Even rebuilding the forum itself to more modern software would be nice. (Thankfully on the agenda!) Same forum, just the middle tier being brought up to speed. (So interface and all stays, DB backend mostly stays, middle tier changes to be faster and more responsive.) |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:09:56 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm working on a LOT of the old chaos. I figure we cycle through chaos and keep it fresh. Otherwise where's the fun in old chaos? It just becomes commonplace and boring. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: What do we do about the old chaos? There's an upper limit to chaos before it mystically becomes orderly again. |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:12:15 PM EDT
[#29]
Can you set my post count to zero?
Much love HK |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:12:36 PM EDT
[#30]
Does this mean IRC will be coming back...
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:14:58 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok so I look at it like ARFCOM just got access to a nice piggy bank, some amazing people, and a connection to a company focused on the 2A. What would you do if you had all that at your disposal and could enact change? Where does your mind go? What do you do first? There are so many possibilities now and while we are focused on this site first, it is no longer having tight walls on where we can go. Imagine your yard just got bigger. Say it's 100 acres around your home and any neighbors are gone and you can do anything you want. Would you be content to sit and stare? Would you build a range? ATV/Truck/Mudding course to play on? How about a pool/garden/party shack? There really is no limitations except what you can think of. So we have been running ARFCOM for 20+ years and there are things we always wanted to do and have run into walls. This is an opportunity to make something special with a like minded company. (Like a national gathering! Who remembers the BRC and Gunstock!) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok so I look at it like ARFCOM just got access to a nice piggy bank, some amazing people, and a connection to a company focused on the 2A. What would you do if you had all that at your disposal and could enact change? Where does your mind go? What do you do first? There are so many possibilities now and while we are focused on this site first, it is no longer having tight walls on where we can go. Imagine your yard just got bigger. Say it's 100 acres around your home and any neighbors are gone and you can do anything you want. Would you be content to sit and stare? Would you build a range? ATV/Truck/Mudding course to play on? How about a pool/garden/party shack? There really is no limitations except what you can think of. So we have been running ARFCOM for 20+ years and there are things we always wanted to do and have run into walls. This is an opportunity to make something special with a like minded company. (Like a national gathering! Who remembers the BRC and Gunstock!) I follow the metaphor and what you mean by it, though. 
I was going to ask for specific examples or specific future plans, and I see that's addressed: We actually have a lot in the works. Things like the new EE to make it easier to have a real (or hybrid) tool to list and sell stuff. Improvements to things people complain about. Increase content on all fronts (video and articles). New products and fun stuff. A lot of what we have spent years doing and things which have been on the list for far too long. Even rebuilding the forum itself to more modern software would be nice. (Thankfully on the agenda!) Same forum, just the middle tier being brought up to speed. (So interface and all stays, DB backend mostly stays, middle tier changes to be faster and more responsive.) |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:15:09 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does this mean IRC will be coming back... |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:17:39 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a HUGE drawback I see. Every time some sandy vagina reads something here they don't like they start a boycott Brownells campaign. Speech gets cracked down on and dumbed down. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
When the day comes that the Brownells believe the chatter here negatively reflects upon their business, they will drop the hammer on Arfcom. |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:18:41 PM EDT
[#34]
Good move on cashing out while the cashing is good. It didn’t work well for Snipershide when they sold/leased/whatever the fuck Frank did but this one might be better.
Side note- will it now take 10 days for team memberships to ship?
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:19:09 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even rebuilding the forum itself to more modern software would be nice. (Thankfully on the agenda!) Same forum, just the middle tier being brought up to speed. (So interface and all stays, DB backend mostly stays, middle tier changes to be faster and more responsive.)
I'll just say the redesign was rough for a bit and sucked performance wise at first but the continual improvements over the years have really made it into something great.
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:19:28 PM EDT
[#36]
Tough break for Hand Job.
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:20:33 PM EDT
[#37]
Two great Company's coming together for the greater good! Congrats!!
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:21:39 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In every large group of great people like this one, there is always a small sub-set of naysayers and pessimists I am not surprised to see some of you afraid of change.That has been the history of the world, and certainly that of Arfcom, but I urge you all to look up instead of down! If the same group of had been around the American colonies in 1776, they would be saying: -No country has beaten the British military and gotten independence..........ever! -If the revolution succeeds, it will become a tyranny, just like it has happened in every revolution before, blah,blah,blah! TL;DR version: Have some faith in what is being done and be positive! Congrats! |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:21:58 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In every large group of great people like this one, there is always a small sub-set of naysayers and pessimists I am not surprised to see some of you afraid of change.That has been the history of the world, and certainly that of Arfcom, but I urge you all to look up instead of down! If the same group of had been around the American colonies in 1776, they would be saying: -No country has beaten the British military and gotten independence..........ever! -If the revolution succeeds, it will become a tyranny, just like it has happened in every revolution before, blah,blah,blah! TL;DR version: Have some faith in what is being done and be positive! Arfcom's merry band of misfits has become a primary source of entertainment for me over the last decade and change and it sure would suck to see it become corporatized and less rough around the edges. Have seen many forums wind up in the hands of corporate entities, most of those are now shells of their former selves and places I seldom, if ever visit. In fact I can't say that any forum that I frequented has been improved by a change like this. That said, from a business point of view I totally understand the decision. |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:23:00 PM EDT
[#40]
So as I read through the thread I am seeing this change as a wholesale change for the 2nd Group that now owns Brownells and AR15.com, using that leverage to affect positive change.
AR15.com already has 10s of thousands of members and an internet presence while Brownells has marketing figured out. The Brownells leader stepped away from the corruption in the NRA and wants to go their own way. So that person can lead the good fight. By purchasing AR15.com the 2nd group actually purchased access to us as a community, the largest pro 2nd community on the net. Boom instant viable replacement for the NRA. They then have a Business Leader and former NRA leader to step up and lead the 2nd community out of the mess we are in. The new lobbying and business venture can raise their hand as a viable option to the NRA because AR15.com becomes the base population and it has more people than any other like group because they started with us. NSSF and others who have tried had no base population to start with and had very little internet presence and basically failed. If I am seeing this correctly this could be a win but I do see our seedy side being phased out. The entire venture can then lead into a new option for a true 1st A platform on the net. It can pull in Full30 and other baby companies that support freedom and help all of them work together. |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:23:05 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They get me! Ok, so 2nd Adventure Group gets a strong voice in the community and an opportunity to help bring change to both arfcom and the community at large. We have some fun things planned for the industry, fun things planned for all of you, and fun things planned for the larger group of gun owners and 2A supporters. The goal is growth and expansion and the ability to fill needs for the 2a community that have been stifled by all the liberal platforms out there in control of too much. So folks like google and facebook and amazon who provide a liberal option have no opposition on the conservative side and thus no fear of shutting doors on us. Whatever 2nd group lets me pursue, or I should say whatever we pursue together, will be focused on an improved outreach to a segment of society too long bullied. Now there's no promises here, but the goal of this thing is to shake things up for the benefit of all. As I have said before. We are not at an ending but at a new beginning. I am very excited to be part of that! Quote HistoryQuoted: They get me! Ok, so 2nd Adventure Group gets a strong voice in the community and an opportunity to help bring change to both arfcom and the community at large. We have some fun things planned for the industry, fun things planned for all of you, and fun things planned for the larger group of gun owners and 2A supporters. The goal is growth and expansion and the ability to fill needs for the 2a community that have been stifled by all the liberal platforms out there in control of too much. So folks like google and facebook and amazon who provide a liberal option have no opposition on the conservative side and thus no fear of shutting doors on us. Whatever 2nd group lets me pursue, or I should say whatever we pursue together, will be focused on an improved outreach to a segment of society too long bullied. Now there's no promises here, but the goal of this thing is to shake things up for the benefit of all. As I have said before. We are not at an ending but at a new beginning. I am very excited to be part of that! The goal is growth and expansion fill needs for the 2a community but the goal of this thing is to shake things up I want to first thank the Avila's for their hard work over the years. I understand the commitment ARFCOM has been to you. Thank you. |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:23:41 PM EDT
[#42]
It’s all good, congratulations! ARFcom
Carry on! Business as usual. |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:25:44 PM EDT
[#43]
1:
Just make this our ham radio icon.  2: I'm not afraid of change but I know perfectly well that corporate ownership of what is mostly a pretty free wheeling and fun loving forum like this, one that talks about GUNS freely, must almost certainly result in big changes, more rules, and locked down content. You must surely see this. Entering the corporate world means that corporate oversight is absolutely going to happen. That corporate oversight means that there will be people with such varying titles as "Cultural Compliance Officer" and "Political Apparatchik" and "Social Justice Compliance Regulator" are going to totally have their way with the site. Eventually there will be no authorized firearms content of any sort save that which comes from a divison of the company. The Avilas will continue to manage the site...until they get their pink slips. (I hear TRG might have several in his undies drawer already....  ) (I keed, I keed!) And then it's [hicks]Game over, man! Game over![/hicks] for most of the fun.
To Ed Sr, if you don't have a very well written and carefully proofread (by a great lawyer) contract in your hand specifying that the Avilas will continue site management and to what level you may choose the direction and daily operations of the site, then the corporate interest is going to bend you over a barrel. Even with a good contract in hand, the moment a clause expires they're going to push you aside regarding the content of that clause. If you're guaranteed two years of management, expect the "You're fired" letter two years and one day after the contract effective date. In the long term I simply do not expect this to be a positive thing. I really don't because of this little thing called THE VOICE OF FUCKING EXPERIENCE that is screaming in my ear. This could be as bad for the site as when Disney bought out Lucasfilm and the Star Wars franchise. |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:27:50 PM EDT
[#44]
With the years of hard work and countless hours the Avila’s have put into this site, I really hope this goes as well as it is envisioned it will.
Corporate groups are generally fueled by one thing. Highly doubtful it is supporting the 2A or the members of an Internet forum site that they truly got into this deal for. Business is business at the end of the day. Arf is unique, maybe it will be the one forum site in the history of the internet that doesn’t become an over censored shadow of itself. |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:27:52 PM EDT
[#45]
Great googly moogly.
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:27:57 PM EDT
[#46]
Hope all the Avila's benefited nicely for all their work making this place what it is. And while I understand people's apprehension, I can't imagine a better company to pair up with / sell too. And may the future bring good things for this forum.
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:28:51 PM EDT
[#47]
I like iowa
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:29:19 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just meant your ideas for the site to grow into. And hooray for shitposting! |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:30:23 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What does "we invested in each other" mean? Who bought who? What does "have a big say on changes" and "protected them from us going rogue" mean? Like if ARFcom went anti-gun and started organizing marches for Hogg's people? Or like if people kept posting memes that put the company in a bad light after twisted by news media if they're officially "associated with" ARFcom? "Invested in each other" means that the contract is setup so that 2nd Adventure Group needs the Avila family to stay involved and continue to grow and advance not just ARFCOM, but future projects which may not fall directly under the ARFCOM brand. (Related project, just not ARFCOM projects.) We will continue to manage and run the site and sign off on changes which could alter the site. (Either positively or negatively. Referencing your "big say on changes" portion.) In turn, we need 2nd group to invest in us in the future, for some of these projects. Be it time, resources, money, whatever it takes to get the job done. We took a risk and they took a risk. If things work out, it's great for both sides, so that is our goal. In short, the deal is setup to be a shared risk and encourage involvement and growth. They want to see ARFCOM grow and flourish and all our plans for the site were welcomed. We also had some outside interests which also were welcomed and are on the table for discussion. While we know we wont get support on everything we want to do, the plan is to grow and continue growing where it makes sense. Hopefully this helps explain things a bit more. |
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Posted: 6/3/2019 4:30:26 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What kind of discount do I get for changing my board name to BrownellsMcBrownellface?
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