Originally Posted By xd341:
The humanity of hamas is not in debate. They have none.  The humanity that needs to preserved is that of Israel.  The easiest thing in the world is to take the righteous anger of Israel and use it to raze Gaza and all that live there.  They have the ability and the motive.  There is even a practical security justification that is impossible to argue against.

In order for Israel to have a secure future they can't just wipe Gaza off the map.  They can target Hamas, they can inflict some collateral damage in pursuit of that end, but they can't go all hand of God on Gaza.  The entire world will end up worse off if they do.

The Arab countries that are nominal allies at this point will not survive if Israel expels Palestinians from Gaza, the citizens of those countries will rise up against thier government, likely with the help of Iran.   Plunging the world into at least a regional war, if not something bigger.

The world is a tinder box right now, more so than at any time since the cold war and there are already several little fires smoldering.

Israel needs to take the high road, not because Hamas deserves it, but because the global stakes are higher than they have been since '76.  Israel has the ability to reverse a generation of progress if they get this wrong.

The movement of IDF forces into the northern Gaza Strip was more rapid than could have been expected at first. Four days after the start of the ground maneuver, it is already escalating into a full-blown war, between IDF large infantry and armored forces, and the Hamas defensive array, which includes several concentric circles surrounding the organization’s security center in downtown Gaza. There is tough, persistent fighting deep in urban areas, much of them devastated in the air force’s preliminary bombings.

As a result, there are apparently hundreds of Hamas fighters dead, but Israel is also paying a price. Tuesday brought news of two soldiers from the Givati Brigade reconnaissance battalions killed in the battles.

As the days go by, the challenge facing the troops becomes more complex. Hamas is a terror group, but in defense it fights using guerrilla tactics. There is no benefit, from its point of view, in a frontal clash with an enemy that enjoys an immense advantage in technology and firepower. It seeks weak spots, where it can exact a heavy toll from the Israeli military. IDF Spokesperson, Brig. Gen. Daniel Hagari, admitted that “intense battles in Gaza” are taking place, and that “there is a price.”

For 20 years, the IDF deliberated and argued about the ground maneuver. The prevailing opinions held that the ground forces, and particularly the reserves, are not sufficiently fit and trained for such a complex mission, and that the Israeli public would struggle to deal with the scope of casualties it might entail. This time, the government and IDF have decided in favor of deploying the forces for hard fighting in the Gaza Strip, in light of the severity of Hamas’ attack. The question of whether the move will prove as effective as they hope has yet to be decided. This will become clear only later on, although there have already been operational achievements.

The IDF’s ground operations are focused at this point on the northern part of the Strip, which is bisected by Gaza River. The distances are not large. The width of the Strip, at its narrowest, is barely six kilometers. There is a point at which the blue arrow, denoting the movement of IDF forces on the map, must stop and seek other missions: Destroying tunnels, sweeping for armed militants and munitions (and optimistically, for hostages as well). The more Israel tightens the noose, the more it encounters the risk that its forces will be too static and thus exposed to harm.

The question of time is also a factor: The IDF is preparing for long months of continuous operation within the Strip. The American administration prefers that Israel refrain from a permanent presence, and that from a certain stage – perhaps within weeks – that it begin focusing on military raids (entering and then leaving) against specifically defined targets. International patience is not infinite, especially since the images of devastation caused by Israel in the Strip are already turning public opinion in some Western countries against the operation. To mitigate some of the damage, Israel has agreed to increase humanitarian aid to the south of the Strip. Now the option of allowing many dozens of trucks in from Egypt on a daily basis is also being discussed. Israel conditions this upon a strict security check. The humanitarian crisis in the Strip is significant. This may impact the IDF’s latitude, over time.

In its first days, the ground operation took place in a rather orderly fashion. In recent years, all units taking part in the operation have undergone detailed training and practice for the event of war in Gaza under the Southern Command. Previous operational plans were less ambitious, and required adjustment following the October 7 terror attack. But the IDF is not unprepared for such a challenge. There is also the impact of other factors, such as fighting spirit and belief in the rightness of the cause. Despite the enormous anger at the government and security establishment brass, who share in the blame of the surprise attack and failure, it seems that troops and commanders alike are focused mainly on the effort to cripple Hamas.

Hamas’ staying power
On Tuesday morning Houthi rebels in Yemen, allied with Iran, fired ballistic missiles and launched drones from Yemen toward the city of Eilat in southern Israel, which were successfully intercepted over the Red Sea. This is part of the planned Iranian effort to back Hamas in its war against Israel. But the main focus of danger remains the Lebanese front. Hezbollah’s dilemma there sharpens more and more as the IDF’s incursion into the city of Gaza deepens, and Beirut and Tehran have concerns as to Hamas’ staying power.

On this, as well, Israel had best err on the side of caution. In the 51 days of fighting during Operation Protective Edge in 2014, Military Intelligence predicted more than 10 times that Hamas would agree to a cease-fire, only to be proven wrong. Willingness to agree to a cease-fire only crystallized at the end of the military campaign, after the IDF greatly intensified aerial attacks in Gaza (a level far exceeded this time, in light of the circumstances).

In the coming days Hezbollah may intensify its reactions, and try to gradually stretch its rocket line southward. This also depends on Israeli moves: The IDF is hitting a large part of the squads firing anti-tank missiles and mortars, gradually pushing Hezbollah’s Radwan Force positions from the border area.

Arab media has reported that the commander of the al-Quds Force of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards, General Esmail Qaani, came to Beirut after October 7 to consolidate Iran and Hezbollah’s response policy. And yet, the prevailing argument is that the final decision rests with Hezbollah Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah, and that Iranian leadership highly respects Nasrallah’s understanding of developments on the Israeli side. Meanwhile, polls are published in Lebanon, even in Hezbollah-affiliated media, showing most of the public opposed to Hezbollah’s involvement in the war, for fear that it will lead to the destruction of Lebanon, already suffering from a particularly severe economic crisis.

Jordanian think tank al-Quds, whose senior staff are retired Jordanian generals, held a discussion on the war in Gaza. The institute’s members write that “the ground war in Gaza is an existential necessity for Israel, following the earthquake of October 7.” They estimate that “Iran will not intervene in the war directly, and Hezbollah will do so only if forced by Israel. The current situation in Arab countries does not indicate a widening of the war, and Washington shows a disinclination for such.” However, the Jordanian experts believe that “Israel may wipe out Hamas’ capabilities, but the resistance is an ideology, a doctrine and a never ending project. It will grow more popular and take on new forms.”

Hysterical hyperbole
Israel’s international difficulties are not limited to a lack of sympathy among Western liberals. The statements by Russian President Vladimir Putin have become more and more extreme, now bordering on antisemitism. Putin describes the war as part of a global struggle between good and evil. In his eyes, Russia and the Palestinians are on the same side, whereas Israel is part of an axis of evil with the U.S. and Ukraine, which all decent people should oppose. These things again shed the light of ridicule upon the claims by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, just a few short years ago, alleging that he had managed to make Russia pro-Israel.

The shortsightedness of Israel’s foreign policy stood out again on Tuesday night, at the unsuccessful speech by Israel’s ambassador to the UN, Gilad Erdan. Israel’s arguments are strong enough. They need no bolstering via a theatrical display in which the ambassador and his staff affixed yellow stars to their lapels. The massacre committed by the Hamas terrorists in the Gaza border area may have been reminiscent in its brutality of images from the Holocaust, but Israel is not helpless. It is a regional military power, enjoying unprecedented security backing from the United States.

This hysterical hyperbole does nothing but feed self-pity and panic. Dani Dayan, chairman of Yad Vashem, the Holocaust Memorial Museum (and as always, a voice of sanity and reason) rightly said that the ambassador’s choice desecrates both the victims of the Holocaust and the State of Israel. But somehow, one gets the sneaking suspicion that Erdan is not interested in the reactions of Dayan and his ilk. He’s already preparing for the Likud race for Netanyahu’s mantle.

A powder keg
Amidst all the terrible commotion, we mustn’t for a moment ignore what is happening in the West Bank. Security personnel following the developments there describe a deliberate effort by settlers – and not just the most extreme and violent ones – to take over territories, chase Palestinians away, and terrorize the residents of the West Bank, in a manner which may ignite a more severe conflict there as well.

The sources say this is a broad, planned and organized operation, in which residents of illegal outposts also participate with sporadic and independent operations. The Civil Administration does not sufficiently document and report events, raising suspicions about a conspiracy of silence on the matter among IDF brass. Some actively collaborate in this effort, and others turn a blind eye and refrain from confrontations.

Among the actions done are the paving of roads around settlements, connecting them to outposts and relatively new ranches. Some of the routes are paved by the IDF, though most are paved independently by the settlers. There is an organized move to run Palestinians off their lands through threats and violence, in the Susya area of the South Hebron Hills, among other areas. There is a noticeable uptick in displays of violence: The uprooting of hundreds of olive trees (in the Tulkarm area), arson, vandalism, and shootings (in the Yitzhar area). Concurrently, new illegal outposts have been established: Two near Peduel in the Ariel area, one in the Shiloh Valley north of Ramallah and one in the Jordan Valley. All these may seem like minuscule matters compared to the horrific massacre in the Gaza border area or the hard fighting in Gaza. But these incident have the potential to cause a deterioration in the West Bank, turning into another front that will pin down resources and troops the IDF needs in more urgent and critical theaters.

The security establishment says that they plan to issue more administrative detention orders for extreme operatives (one has already been issued). Border Police troops are being beefed up in areas of friction between Palestinians and settlers, and the Shin Bet has entered the picture more actively. And yet, there is a powder keg here, threatening to explode. The state must respond more harshly, despite the presence of the hilltop youth’s delegates in the government and security cabinet.

Originally Posted By texashomeserver:
https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1719701693753962797

Footage was released today by the Houthi Terrorist Organization in Yemen which shows the launch of Ballistic and Land-Attack Cruise Missiles as well as Drones during their 4 claimed Attacks against Southern Israel over the last week or so.

Originally Posted By Rossi:



Uncanny similarity with the US' school system and how it deals with traditional moral values.

Universities' masks dropped big time with the Hamas attack on Israel.

Originally Posted By Rossi:



Uncanny similarity with the US' school system and how it deals with traditional moral values.

Universities' masks dropped big time with the Hamas attack on Israel.

Originally Posted By xd341:
The Palis have no place to go.  They are such bad actors in global affairs that no nation wants them.  They are full of Iranian influence, impossible to vet, have a history of insurgency and are the favored tool of the #1 global state sponsor of terror.  

It would be like donating your living body so cancer has a place to live.   That being said, the citizens of those Arab countries, Egypt, SA, the emirates, jordan..they have huge populations that are sympathetic to the Palestinians.

They also have reached relative peace with Israel, while not suffering popular uprisings, or having recovered from them.

Israel is in the driver's seat here. If they try to drive the Palestinians out of Gaza the whole region goes to shit again.   Iran knows this, that's why they use the Sunni Palestinians as a weapon, Iran is Shia, they think Sunnis are sub human. They don't actually care about Palestinians. They are just a pawn on Iran chess board.  That's why Iranian proxies are also poking at Israel, trying to get them to over react and cause division in the Sunni Arab countries.

Fucking turkey is helping

Originally Posted By SoCalExile:

Hamas Official Ghazi Hamad: We Will Repeat the October 7 Attack Time and Again Until Israel Is Annihilated; We Are Victims - Everything We Do Is Justified #Hamas #Gaza #Palestinians pic.twitter.com/kXu3U0BtAP

MEMRI  (@MEMRIReports) November 1, 2023

Originally Posted By shotar:


I take them at their word.  I repeat my best solution.  Total war to the unconditional surrender of Hamas.

Originally Posted By Dave_Markowitz:


Omnes occidunt, Deus suos noverit.

Originally Posted By xd341:
It's not about the cancer. It's about allowing Iran to manipulate the region into a wider war. A war that will destabilize more than the Mid-east.

This is all Iran. They are the puppet masters from Syria all the way through Gaza.  I'm not worried about Israel. There is a lot of fight in the Jewish state and for good reason.  

Roughly half of the arab world is pretty OK with Islamic extremism. Maybe not participating but not resisting it either.  Somehow most of the arab world is run by people willing to at least acknowledge that Israel exists. That's fragile. It was making quiet but significant progress.  That's why Iran had to throw a wrench in the gears.  If the Sunni Arab world aligns with Israel and the US,  Iran is fucked.

The last thing Iran can allow is Palestinians to have secure coexistence with Israel. The atrocities of 7 Oct were designed specifically to outrage Israel beyond control and make them fracture the region.

Originally Posted By xd341:
It's not about the cancer. It's about allowing Iran to manipulate the region into a wider war. A war that will destabilize more than the Mid-east.

This is all Iran. They are the puppet masters from Syria all the way through Gaza.  I'm not worried about Israel. There is a lot of fight in the Jewish state and for good reason.  

Roughly half of the arab world is pretty OK with Islamic extremism. Maybe not participating but not resisting it either.  Somehow most of the arab world is run by people willing to at least acknowledge that Israel exists. That's fragile. It was making quiet but significant progress.  That's why Iran had to throw a wrench in the gears.  If the Sunni Arab world aligns with Israel and the US,  Iran is fucked.

The last thing Iran can allow is Palestinians to have secure coexistence with Israel. The atrocities of 7 Oct were designed specifically to outrage Israel beyond control and make them fracture the region.

Originally Posted By Eagle157:


Surrender is unacceptable.  Hamas and their sympathizers must be wiped from existence or we will continue to see this type of crap for eternity.

Originally Posted By SoCalExile:

NEW Gaza satelite image TODAY.

Go for it at https://t.co/LV1ET7LErY

Working now on something else but feel free to tag me or answer here if want me to take a look at your findings.

Sem tempo irmão! ;)

— Tom Bike (@tom_bike) November 1, 2023

Link to imagery .

Originally Posted By texashomeserver:
Biden admin reportedly considering stationing US troops in Gaza

https://nypost.com/2023/10/30/news/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-latest-news-as-idf-expands-gaza-ground-operation/

Originally Posted By fike:


Taken with a space potato?

Originally Posted By SoCalExile:

Hamas Official Ghazi Hamad: We Will Repeat the October 7 Attack Time and Again Until Israel Is Annihilated; We Are Victims - Everything We Do Is Justified #Hamas #Gaza #Palestinians pic.twitter.com/kXu3U0BtAP

MEMRI  (@MEMRIReports) November 1, 2023

Originally Posted By x248716x:
see a few Merkavas with COPE cages for drone-dropped grenades, etc.  wonder what the next generation of tank design, how it will be incorporated.  active armor topside? mounted on stand-off plate?

Originally Posted By TinSpinner:


It will continue with or without Hamas, plenty of other radical groups to step in if they are eliminated

Originally Posted By shotar:


I take them at their word.  I repeat my best solution.  Total war to the unconditional surrender of Hamas.

Originally Posted By tsg68:


Exploit their own sectarianism against them.  Encourage the Sunni vs Shia divide, build a fence around that condlict and let them kill each other.

Originally Posted By Logcutter:


Um, kicking the can down the road hasn't worked.  Ever.