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Link Posted: 11/14/2023 8:39:17 AM EDT
[#1]
Vid of Hamas arms room: https://t.me/ILtoday/3828
Found under a hospital in Gaza City. According to the Geneva Conventions, these hospitals no longer enjoy "protected" status. They are hostile enemy camps.

Link Posted: 11/14/2023 8:49:04 AM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SoCalExile:
Vid of Hamas arms room: https://t.me/ILtoday/3828
Found under a hospital in Gaza City. According to the Geneva Conventions, these hospitals no longer enjoy "protected" status. They are hostile enemy camps.

View Quote


I don't see how the Geneva Conventions even apply to this conflict.  Gaza is not a state.  For all practical intents and purposes it is sovereign Israeli territory and I would imagine the only applicable laws governing this conflict are Israeli ones.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 8:50:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: fike] [#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SoCalExile:
Vid of Hamas arms room: https://t.me/ILtoday/3828
Found under a hospital in Gaza City. According to the Geneva Conventions, these hospitals no longer enjoy "protected" status. They are hostile enemy camps.

View Quote


That vid has been used for a bunch of different things. Last week it was tunnels.

It’s a store (airsoft, outdoor gear, etc).
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 8:50:58 AM EDT
[#4]


Warning: Graphic content from Hamas sexual violence on October 7:
Click To View Spoiler

Link Posted: 11/14/2023 8:55:56 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SoCalExile:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-41e_ZXEAA37Xd?format=jpg&name=small
View Quote

The equipment looks like something out of a science fiction movie. I had no idea they were that big.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 8:55:57 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 9:00:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: texashomeserver] [#7]







IDF says Eilat sirens tripped by air defense missile fired at ‘aerial target’

The Israel Defense Forces says rocket sirens sounded in Israel’s southernmost city of Eilat a short while ago due to an air defense missile being fired at an “aerial target.”

The IDF says there was no actual infiltration into Israeli airspace.

It is unclear what the target was, or whether it was intercepted.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 9:05:25 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jack19:


You'll notice that Ismail Haniyeh fled Qatar to the relative safe haven of Iran. He knew he was no longer safe in Qatar.  

I think what you will find is that over the next decade or so, Israel will hunt down every one of the leadership and likely everyone who participated. Just as they did after the 1972 Munich massacre.  Every one of them is a target.


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Originally Posted By Jack19:
Originally Posted By xd675:


I doubt that.

Hamas leadership doesn’t reside in Gaza.  Hamas is bigger than Gaza and will not be destroyed even if the entire strip is razed.  

Hamas is likely getting more cash and resources than it has in ages, it’s just not going to Gaza right now.  Hamas leadership and their propaganda teams will be all over the Islamic world showing how the evil Jew treats poor Muslims, leveraging the Koran for all its worth highlighting texts about aiding fellow Muslims.

You know it’s going to be successful because Hamas is one of the few groups not really bound by Sunni or Shia dogmas.  Hamas is technically Sunni but Iran heavily supports them which pressures Sunni states like Saudi Arabia to do so.  Even Turkey is floating ideas of aid to Gaza.

I see this likely that Hamas become a more international group that still is the primary insurgent for Israel in Gaza.


You'll notice that Ismail Haniyeh fled Qatar to the relative safe haven of Iran. He knew he was no longer safe in Qatar.  

I think what you will find is that over the next decade or so, Israel will hunt down every one of the leadership and likely everyone who participated. Just as they did after the 1972 Munich massacre.  Every one of them is a target.




They will and a new shit head will take his place.

They have plenty willing to step into that role and it always sends the next will try to beat the last in violence and depravity.

Maybe the only peace plan I see is Turkey coming in as a peace keeping nation but only after the entire logistical network of Hamas in Gaza is destroyed which will take years of holding all of the strip.

Even then i suspect there is a high risk of a new insurgent group taking over and using Turkeys military as a shield to hide behind.  Fighting the Turks to clear them out would be far more difficult and risks large scale war.

Turkey however might keep the peace and be interested in consolidating a position in the other side of the Med to use to project air and naval power in the region, especially with all the bare oil and gas fields they’ve found at sea.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 9:13:06 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By xd675:


They will and a new shit head will take his place.

They have plenty willing to step into that role and it always sends the next will try to beat the last in violence and depravity.

Maybe the only peace plan I see is Turkey coming in as a peace keeping nation but only after the entire logistical network of Hamas in Gaza is destroyed which will take years of holding all of the strip.

Even then i suspect there is a high risk of a new insurgent group taking over and using Turkeys military as a shield to hide behind.  Fighting the Turks to clear them out would be far more difficult and risks large scale war.

Turkey however might keep the peace and be interested in consolidating a position in the other side of the Med to use to project air and naval power in the region, especially with all the bare oil and gas fields they’ve found at sea.
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Originally Posted By xd675:
Originally Posted By Jack19:
Originally Posted By xd675:


I doubt that.

Hamas leadership doesn’t reside in Gaza.  Hamas is bigger than Gaza and will not be destroyed even if the entire strip is razed.  

Hamas is likely getting more cash and resources than it has in ages, it’s just not going to Gaza right now.  Hamas leadership and their propaganda teams will be all over the Islamic world showing how the evil Jew treats poor Muslims, leveraging the Koran for all its worth highlighting texts about aiding fellow Muslims.

You know it’s going to be successful because Hamas is one of the few groups not really bound by Sunni or Shia dogmas.  Hamas is technically Sunni but Iran heavily supports them which pressures Sunni states like Saudi Arabia to do so.  Even Turkey is floating ideas of aid to Gaza.

I see this likely that Hamas become a more international group that still is the primary insurgent for Israel in Gaza.


You'll notice that Ismail Haniyeh fled Qatar to the relative safe haven of Iran. He knew he was no longer safe in Qatar.  

I think what you will find is that over the next decade or so, Israel will hunt down every one of the leadership and likely everyone who participated. Just as they did after the 1972 Munich massacre.  Every one of them is a target.




They will and a new shit head will take his place.

They have plenty willing to step into that role and it always sends the next will try to beat the last in violence and depravity.

Maybe the only peace plan I see is Turkey coming in as a peace keeping nation but only after the entire logistical network of Hamas in Gaza is destroyed which will take years of holding all of the strip.

Even then i suspect there is a high risk of a new insurgent group taking over and using Turkeys military as a shield to hide behind.  Fighting the Turks to clear them out would be far more difficult and risks large scale war.

Turkey however might keep the peace and be interested in consolidating a position in the other side of the Med to use to project air and naval power in the region, especially with all the bare oil and gas fields they’ve found at sea.

Lol, we don't need Islam involved in anything. They are the problem.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 9:17:45 AM EDT
[#10]
So basically the IDF needs to capture the hospital and evacuate anyone sheltering there.

Well, evacuate the non combatant folks.

Then they can look to do what they want with the facilities and all the tunnels under it.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 9:31:55 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SoCalExile:
Vid of Hamas arms room: https://t.me/ILtoday/3828
Found under a hospital in Gaza City. According to the Geneva Conventions, these hospitals no longer enjoy "protected" status. They are hostile enemy camps.

View Quote

Bomb bomb bomb the hospital now!!!!  All 12 hospitals!
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 9:34:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: michigan66] [#12]


Article in Times of Israel.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 9:35:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: texashomeserver] [#13]


Portland -

Link Posted: 11/14/2023 9:57:19 AM EDT
[#14]
Lots of questions about who is winning in Gaza.  Problem is Israel and Hamas have different definitions of a win.

Haaretz | Israel News Analysis | What Would Israel and Hamas Consider a 'Win' in Gaza?

For Israel, nothing less than eradicating the terror organization here and now will be seen as a win. Hamas wants to sustain a permanent state of conflict, so just living to fight another day will be seen as a victory by its leaders

Highlights:
By conventional definition and the relevant metrics that measure power, there is no strategic proportionality whatsoever between Israel and Hamas. Israel is exponentially superior and stronger in every aspect. But sometimes the far more powerful can paradoxically find itself at a disadvantage.

This asymmetry uniquely exists when a state is at war with a non-state entity, and it relates particularly to the concepts of time and objective.

For Israel, a win invariably means comprehensively destroying Hamas militarily – or at least inflicting degrading, irretrievable military damage.

An Israeli win would also entail politically debilitating Hamas and rendering the terror organization incapable of exerting power and governing in Gaza. Anything less than that would amount to a limited tactical achievement, not a strategic game-changer.

For Hamas, a win means staying on its feet. The grand objective is to fuel and sustain a permanent state of conflict, constantly disrupt the status quo, and fight and murder to live another day.

Hamas is a vicious terror organization, a tyrannical political movement and an extremist, theocratic-nationalist ideology, so therefore a win means retaining residual military capabilities, sufficient political power and maintaining a level of legitimacy among the Palestinians.

This is where the concept of time and perspectives of time frames are relevant.

Israel needs to win now. This is the outcome of the magnitude, barbarity and level of devastation caused by the October 7 attack, as well as for the more vague concepts of restoring deterrence and dissuading Hezbollah from escalating

Hamas is not thinking about the here and now but in terms of decades. It seeks to undermine and delegitimize Israel, so a military defeat – as resounding and decisive as it might be – does not detract from that goal.

While Hamas cannot tolerate the Mideast status quo that existed, especially with the prospect of Israeli-Saudi relations, Israel turned the status quo into a comfort zone of denial.

In other words, Israel needs the win to be strategic in scope, while Hamas, if it is not entirely obliterated, may see defeat merely as a tactical setback.
View Quote


Entire Article:
Click To View Spoiler
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:04:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: michigan66] [#15]
Institute Study of War Update as of 2:00 PM 13 November

Interesting summary of Hamas casualties:

The IDF said it has weakened 10 out of 24 Hamas battalions in the Gaza Strip.  (IDF) report says Hamas is comprised of 30,000 militia fighters in the Gaza Strip, which are divided into five regional brigades, 24 battalions, and 140 companies.

The IDF said on November 13 that it had assassinated five leaders with various roles in Hamas’ intelligence services, anti-armor units, and special forces.


Israel also reported clashes with Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine forces and armed elements of Fatah in addition to Islamic Jihad and Hamas.

Key Takeaways:

The IDF said it has weakened 10 out of 24 Hamas battalions in the Gaza Strip.

Israel is pressuring Hamas to surrender its position inside the al Shifa Hospital. Hamas prevented al Shifa Hospital staff from accepting fuel from Israeli forces, according to the Israel Defense Forces.

Israeli forces advanced further into the al Nasr neighborhood in the northwestern Gaza Strip. Israeli forces also fought with Palestinian militia fighters at the al Quds Hospital in southwestern Gaza City.

Palestinian fighters engaged Israeli forces in seven small arms clashes and detonated five IEDs targeting Israeli forces across the West Bank on November 13.

Iranian-backed militants, including Lebanese Hezbollah (LH), conducted at least 12 attacks into northern Israel on November 13

Israeli officials stated on November 13 that LH attacks on November 12 killed and wounded 17 Israeli soldiers and civilians.  LH acknowledged on November 13 that 73 of its fighters have died fighting Israel since October 7.

The Islamic Resistance in Iraq claimed one attack targeting US forces in Syria on November 12 and claimed to fire one drone at US forces stationed at Green Village. CTP-ISW recorded four attacks targeting US forces in Syria on November 13.
View Quote
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:06:07 AM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:17:53 AM EDT
[#17]
A few hundred pages ago I mentioned showing some visible sign of support for the Jews in this country. Here is one way we might do this. Put a Mezuzah on your doorframe. The article gives some history of a couple similar events in American history.

https://townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/2023/11/14/the-little-box-that-could-change-america-n2631168
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:20:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Red_Blue] [#18]
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Originally Posted By bigstick61:
I don't see how the Geneva Conventions even apply to this conflict.  Gaza is not a state.  For all practical intents and purposes it is sovereign Israeli territory and I would imagine the only applicable laws governing this conflict are Israeli ones.
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Originally Posted By bigstick61:
I don't see how the Geneva Conventions even apply to this conflict.  Gaza is not a state.  For all practical intents and purposes it is sovereign Israeli territory and I would imagine the only applicable laws governing this conflict are Israeli ones.

All Geneva Conventions of 1949 (that is I through IV) apply to conflicts between non-state actors and states. That principle is called the “Article 3 common to the Geneva Conventions” and for the protection of civilians (Convention IV) it reads as follows:

In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each Party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:

(1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed ' hors de combat ' by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.

To this end, the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

(b) taking of hostages;

(c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment;

(d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

(2) The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for.

An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.


Also, it is quite easily arguable that since Palestine is a state party to the convention, that the war is between two state parties. If you would accept that, then any attacks against hospitals would be subject to the much more strict requirements of Article 19 that neither side has shown that they have complied with:

The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy. Protection may, however, cease only after due warning has been given, naming, in all appropriate cases, a reasonable time limit, and after such warning has remained unheeded.

The fact that sick or wounded members of the armed forces are nursed in these hospitals, or the presence of small arms and ammunition taken from such combatants and not yet handed to the proper service, shall not be considered to be acts harmful to the enemy.


Holding hostages or even prisoners of war not under care inside a hospital might satisfy the “acts harmful to the enemy” standard, but the reprisal for that could not be aerial bombardment as that could easily endanger the hostages/prisoners. A raid with ground troops might be defensible as a compliant use of military force though.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:29:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: fike] [#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By michigan66:
Lots of questions about who is winning in Gaza.  Problem is Israel and Hamas have different definitions of a win.

Haaretz | Israel News Analysis | What Would Israel and Hamas Consider a 'Win' in Gaza?

For Israel, nothing less than eradicating the terror organization here and now will be seen as a win. Hamas wants to sustain a permanent state of conflict, so just living to fight another day will be seen as a victory by its leaders

Highlights:


Entire Article:
Click To View Spoiler
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By michigan66:
Lots of questions about who is winning in Gaza.  Problem is Israel and Hamas have different definitions of a win.

Haaretz | Israel News Analysis | What Would Israel and Hamas Consider a 'Win' in Gaza?

For Israel, nothing less than eradicating the terror organization here and now will be seen as a win. Hamas wants to sustain a permanent state of conflict, so just living to fight another day will be seen as a victory by its leaders

Highlights:
By conventional definition and the relevant metrics that measure power, there is no strategic proportionality whatsoever between Israel and Hamas. Israel is exponentially superior and stronger in every aspect. But sometimes the far more powerful can paradoxically find itself at a disadvantage.

This asymmetry uniquely exists when a state is at war with a non-state entity, and it relates particularly to the concepts of time and objective.

For Israel, a win invariably means comprehensively destroying Hamas militarily – or at least inflicting degrading, irretrievable military damage.

An Israeli win would also entail politically debilitating Hamas and rendering the terror organization incapable of exerting power and governing in Gaza. Anything less than that would amount to a limited tactical achievement, not a strategic game-changer.

For Hamas, a win means staying on its feet. The grand objective is to fuel and sustain a permanent state of conflict, constantly disrupt the status quo, and fight and murder to live another day.

Hamas is a vicious terror organization, a tyrannical political movement and an extremist, theocratic-nationalist ideology, so therefore a win means retaining residual military capabilities, sufficient political power and maintaining a level of legitimacy among the Palestinians.

This is where the concept of time and perspectives of time frames are relevant.

Israel needs to win now. This is the outcome of the magnitude, barbarity and level of devastation caused by the October 7 attack, as well as for the more vague concepts of restoring deterrence and dissuading Hezbollah from escalating

Hamas is not thinking about the here and now but in terms of decades. It seeks to undermine and delegitimize Israel, so a military defeat – as resounding and decisive as it might be – does not detract from that goal.

While Hamas cannot tolerate the Mideast status quo that existed, especially with the prospect of Israeli-Saudi relations, Israel turned the status quo into a comfort zone of denial.

In other words, Israel needs the win to be strategic in scope, while Hamas, if it is not entirely obliterated, may see defeat merely as a tactical setback. [/b]


Entire Article:
Click To View Spoiler


The goal posts can be continually moved to serve a particular narrative for Hamas. Just throw “which is what Hamas wanted” at the end of everything.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:34:59 AM EDT
[#20]
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Originally Posted By Red_Blue:

All Geneva Conventions of 1949 (that is I through IV) apply to conflicts between non-state actors and states. That principle is called the “Article 3 common to the Geneva Conventions” and for the protection of civilians (Convention IV) it reads as follows:

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Originally Posted By Red_Blue:
Originally Posted By bigstick61:
I don't see how the Geneva Conventions even apply to this conflict.  Gaza is not a state.  For all practical intents and purposes it is sovereign Israeli territory and I would imagine the only applicable laws governing this conflict are Israeli ones.

All Geneva Conventions of 1949 (that is I through IV) apply to conflicts between non-state actors and states. That principle is called the “Article 3 common to the Geneva Conventions” and for the protection of civilians (Convention IV) it reads as follows:
In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each Party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:

(1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed ' hors de combat ' by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.

To this end, the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

(b) taking of hostages;

(c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment;

(d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

(2) The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for.

An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.


So all terrorist organizations as well? Seems like fighting with a handicap when they aren’t going follow these rules.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:41:04 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By michigan66:
Lots of questions about who is winning in Gaza.  Problem is Israel and Hamas have different definitions of a win.

Haaretz | Israel News Analysis | What Would Israel and Hamas Consider a 'Win' in Gaza?

For Israel, nothing less than eradicating the terror organization here and now will be seen as a win. Hamas wants to sustain a permanent state of conflict, so just living to fight another day will be seen as a victory by its leaders

Highlights:


Entire Article:
Click To View Spoiler
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By michigan66:
Lots of questions about who is winning in Gaza.  Problem is Israel and Hamas have different definitions of a win.

Haaretz | Israel News Analysis | What Would Israel and Hamas Consider a 'Win' in Gaza?

For Israel, nothing less than eradicating the terror organization here and now will be seen as a win. Hamas wants to sustain a permanent state of conflict, so just living to fight another day will be seen as a victory by its leaders

Highlights:
By conventional definition and the relevant metrics that measure power, there is no strategic proportionality whatsoever between Israel and Hamas. Israel is exponentially superior and stronger in every aspect. But sometimes the far more powerful can paradoxically find itself at a disadvantage.

This asymmetry uniquely exists when a state is at war with a non-state entity, and it relates particularly to the concepts of time and objective.

For Israel, a win invariably means comprehensively destroying Hamas militarily – or at least inflicting degrading, irretrievable military damage.

An Israeli win would also entail politically debilitating Hamas and rendering the terror organization incapable of exerting power and governing in Gaza. Anything less than that would amount to a limited tactical achievement, not a strategic game-changer.

For Hamas, a win means staying on its feet. The grand objective is to fuel and sustain a permanent state of conflict, constantly disrupt the status quo, and fight and murder to live another day.

Hamas is a vicious terror organization, a tyrannical political movement and an extremist, theocratic-nationalist ideology, so therefore a win means retaining residual military capabilities, sufficient political power and maintaining a level of legitimacy among the Palestinians.

This is where the concept of time and perspectives of time frames are relevant.

Israel needs to win now. This is the outcome of the magnitude, barbarity and level of devastation caused by the October 7 attack, as well as for the more vague concepts of restoring deterrence and dissuading Hezbollah from escalating

Hamas is not thinking about the here and now but in terms of decades. It seeks to undermine and delegitimize Israel, so a military defeat – as resounding and decisive as it might be – does not detract from that goal.

While Hamas cannot tolerate the Mideast status quo that existed, especially with the prospect of Israeli-Saudi relations, Israel turned the status quo into a comfort zone of denial.

In other words, Israel needs the win to be strategic in scope, while Hamas, if it is not entirely obliterated, may see defeat merely as a tactical setback.


Entire Article:
Click To View Spoiler

Haaretz is to the left of the New York Times. Way to the left. I would look for a more credible source.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:45:12 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By texashomeserver:


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-5SdFaXQAAQT_O?format=jpg&name=medium

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-5SdQiWsAAFGs5?format=jpg&name=large

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Except we've got a video now from CNN showing that elevator shaft is outside, while the tweet is trying to make it sound like its inside the building?

Its a service lift, I'll give him that, but one that goes that deep is damn suspicious in and of itself.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:47:19 AM EDT
[#23]
Hamas commits war crimes in hospitals and mosques, but world says nothing

Hamas supporters in New York and London took to the streets this weekend to pressure the American and British governments to cut off support for Israel’s war on terrorism.

Hamas responded by reminding the world why Israel must succeed in destroying this terror organization once and for all.

The Israel Defense Forces released footage Monday of Hamas firing rocket-propelled grenades toward Israeli troops. The catch? The terrorists were firing from the entrance of Al-Quds hospital in Gaza City — committing a war crime by using civilians as human shields.

The IDF returned fire and confirmed killing 21 Hamas terrorists using the hospital for cover. When civilians tried to run away, Hamas terrorists ran with them to create physical shields. As the dust settled, some terrorists went back inside the hospital.

The events at Al-Quds are nothing compared to what’s happening at Gaza City’s Al-Shifa hospital — the headquarters of Hamas operations. Hamas is locked in an intense ground fight against Israel in the areas surrounding Shifa — potentially seeing the battle as a last stand before losing effective operational control of the Gaza Strip.

Israeli officials have spoken with the hospital and offered to coordinate the evacuation of sick patients, including children. Staff told the IDF that Hamas was hoarding fuel underneath the hospital, sacrificing more civilians for its own terrorist agenda.

The IDF dropped off additional fuel to help the hospital continue operations. But Hamas blocked its retrieval. The terrorists want patients to die as a means of pressuring Israel to stop short of seizing its headquarters, which reportedly lies under the hospital.

The Hamas supporters in the street blame Israel for civilian deaths in Gaza. But for those paying any attention, Hamas demonstrates every day that those civilians are dead because of Hamas, not Israel.

Rather than condemn Hamas for violating the laws of war, the World Health Organization’s director-general accused Israel of targeting hospitals in Gaza and called for an immediate cease-fire.

WHO has not condemned Hamas for using hospitals as human shields, basing its headquarters under Shifa or denying a hospital access to fuel. No outrage can be found over Hamas using ambulances to transport terrorists and weapons.

Like the rest of the United Nations, WHO does not recognize Hamas as a terrorist organization.

This is nothing new from WHO, a China-influenced agency that castigates Israel on an annual basis at its World Health Assembly. Now, with Syria and North Korea on its executive board, it is nothing more than a Hamas mouthpiece — albeit a mouthpiece funded generously by the United States taxpayer.

The IDF late Monday released video footage from inside a Hamas terror tunnel that ended in the basement of Gaza’s Rantisi hospital. Israel reportedly found diapers in the basement alongside rope used to hold Israeli hostages.

A baby bottle found on top of a box bearing the WHO logo completed the indictment of a United Nations that is actively working against its founding promise: Never again.

Hamas’ daily war crimes extend beyond the health-care sector. On Sunday, the IDF released footage of weapons, ammunition and explosive devices found inside a kindergarten in northern Gaza.

Israel is also finding major terror infrastructure in and under mosques. Weapons were seized from the Abu Bakr mosque while four IDF soldiers were killed in a booby-trapped tunnel under another mosque in Beit Hanoun.

Sadly, as the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques hosted a summit of Arab governments in Riyadh to discuss the crisis in Gaza, not one leader condemned Hamas for desecrating mosques or using Muslims as human shields. Honored guests at this summit included Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi.

But there was no condemnation for Assad’s mass murder of hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Syria — or Raisi’s mass murder of thousands upon thousands of Muslims in Iran. Only the Jewish state — the one party actively evacuating Muslim civilians from Hamas’ evil clutch — was singled out for condemnation.

During his remarks, Raisi unveiled a new final solution for the Jews: “From the river to the sea,” the very same chant American and British citizens heard this weekend from pro-Hamas demonstrators.

Hearing it from Hamas’ chief terror sponsor should remove any doubt what that phrase means — and why it’s imperative Israel succeed in destroying the Tehran-backed cancer on its borders.

Author:
Richard Goldberg, a senior adviser at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, is a former National Security Council official and senior US Senate aide.


Hamas commits war crimes in hospitals and mosques, but world says nothing
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:49:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: texashomeserver] [#24]
Reuter's live feed at Nasser Hospital in Gaza

[tweet]https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1MYGNoRAwXbJw[/tweet]
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:49:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: tnriverluver] [#25]
Active as hell atm
GAZA LIVE : Palestine,GAZA | Multi-cams | Stream #88
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:50:28 AM EDT
[#26]
We do this yet?

400 Anonymous Biden Administration Officials Demand Cease-Fire

Four hundred government officials from 40 departments and agencies within President Biden's administration signed a letter opposing the president's handling of the Israel-Hamas war and demanded a cease-fire.

The Tuesday letter, first reported by the New York Times, includes officials from the State Department, White House, National Security Council and the Justice Department. The signatories of the letter remained anonymous to protect against professional retaliation.

"We call on President Biden to urgently demand a cease-fire; and to call for de-escalation of the current conflict by securing the immediate release of the Israeli hostages and arbitrarily detained Palestinians; the restoration of water, fuel, electricity and other basic services; and the passage of adequate humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip," the letter reads, in part.
View Quote


No surprise.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:52:29 AM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Halberdier:

Haaretz is to the left of the New York Times. Way to the left. I would look for a more credible source.
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Originally Posted By Halberdier:
Originally Posted By michigan66:
Lots of questions about who is winning in Gaza.  Problem is Israel and Hamas have different definitions of a win.

Haaretz | Israel News Analysis | What Would Israel and Hamas Consider a 'Win' in Gaza?

For Israel, nothing less than eradicating the terror organization here and now will be seen as a win. Hamas wants to sustain a permanent state of conflict, so just living to fight another day will be seen as a victory by its leaders

Highlights:
By conventional definition and the relevant metrics that measure power, there is no strategic proportionality whatsoever between Israel and Hamas. Israel is exponentially superior and stronger in every aspect. But sometimes the far more powerful can paradoxically find itself at a disadvantage.

This asymmetry uniquely exists when a state is at war with a non-state entity, and it relates particularly to the concepts of time and objective.

For Israel, a win invariably means comprehensively destroying Hamas militarily – or at least inflicting degrading, irretrievable military damage.

An Israeli win would also entail politically debilitating Hamas and rendering the terror organization incapable of exerting power and governing in Gaza. Anything less than that would amount to a limited tactical achievement, not a strategic game-changer.

For Hamas, a win means staying on its feet. The grand objective is to fuel and sustain a permanent state of conflict, constantly disrupt the status quo, and fight and murder to live another day.

Hamas is a vicious terror organization, a tyrannical political movement and an extremist, theocratic-nationalist ideology, so therefore a win means retaining residual military capabilities, sufficient political power and maintaining a level of legitimacy among the Palestinians.

This is where the concept of time and perspectives of time frames are relevant.

Israel needs to win now. This is the outcome of the magnitude, barbarity and level of devastation caused by the October 7 attack, as well as for the more vague concepts of restoring deterrence and dissuading Hezbollah from escalating

Hamas is not thinking about the here and now but in terms of decades. It seeks to undermine and delegitimize Israel, so a military defeat – as resounding and decisive as it might be – does not detract from that goal.

While Hamas cannot tolerate the Mideast status quo that existed, especially with the prospect of Israeli-Saudi relations, Israel turned the status quo into a comfort zone of denial.

In other words, Israel needs the win to be strategic in scope, while Hamas, if it is not entirely obliterated, may see defeat merely as a tactical setback.


Entire Article:
Click To View Spoiler

Haaretz is to the left of the New York Times. Way to the left. I would look for a more credible source.


Any comment on the substance of the article?  

Re:  other sources, feel free to post them.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:53:01 AM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By birdbarian:


You've obviously never seen a female Australian Aborigine.
View Quote


Can't possibly be uglier than Rashida. Especially on the inside.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:53:03 AM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tyvar:



Except we've got a video now from CNN showing that elevator shaft is outside, while the tweet is trying to make it sound like its inside the building?

Its a service lift, I'll give him that, but one that goes that deep is damn suspicious in and of itself.
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Originally Posted By Tyvar:
Originally Posted By texashomeserver:


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-5SdFaXQAAQT_O?format=jpg&name=medium

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-5SdQiWsAAFGs5?format=jpg&name=large




Except we've got a video now from CNN showing that elevator shaft is outside, while the tweet is trying to make it sound like its inside the building?

Its a service lift, I'll give him that, but one that goes that deep is damn suspicious in and of itself.


All of the regular names go out the window when you have a subterranean shaft. Elevator, lift, ground floor.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:55:03 AM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ascendent:
So all terrorist organizations as well? Seems like fighting with a handicap when they aren’t going follow these rules.
View Quote

Geneva Conventions or laws of war in general apply fully to terrorist organizations if they fight a particular conflict in compliance with the rules of war. That is doubtful for how a terrorist organization normally conducts itself, but is not entirely unreasonable. For example, you might have a particular terror cell that conducts crimes against humanity getting attacked by a state and then defended by another group that doesn't take part in terrorism in that particular conflict.

Laws of war also include the concept of reprisals, or violations that are defensible as unilateral punishment for the violations of the other side. The scope of reprisals is heavily limited in GC and even more limited in the additional protocols. A reprisal against hospital is mentioned in Article 19 of GC IV as I quoted and is only possible for violations involving that hospital itself and even then after a sufficient opportunity is given to cure the violation at the hospital. You cannot bomb a hospital as a reprisal for taking hostages for example.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:55:18 AM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By texashomeserver:
View Quote

And they're saying "alleged Hamas 'armory'" in their headline.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:56:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: michigan66] [#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fike:


The goal posts can be continually moved to serve a particular narrative for Hamas. Just throw “which is what Hamas wanted” at the end of everything.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fike:
Originally Posted By michigan66:
Lots of questions about who is winning in Gaza.  Problem is Israel and Hamas have different definitions of a win.

Haaretz | Israel News Analysis | What Would Israel and Hamas Consider a 'Win' in Gaza?

For Israel, nothing less than eradicating the terror organization here and now will be seen as a win. Hamas wants to sustain a permanent state of conflict, so just living to fight another day will be seen as a victory by its leaders

Highlights:
By conventional definition and the relevant metrics that measure power, there is no strategic proportionality whatsoever between Israel and Hamas. Israel is exponentially superior and stronger in every aspect. But sometimes the far more powerful can paradoxically find itself at a disadvantage.

This asymmetry uniquely exists when a state is at war with a non-state entity, and it relates particularly to the concepts of time and objective.

For Israel, a win invariably means comprehensively destroying Hamas militarily – or at least inflicting degrading, irretrievable military damage.

An Israeli win would also entail politically debilitating Hamas and rendering the terror organization incapable of exerting power and governing in Gaza. Anything less than that would amount to a limited tactical achievement, not a strategic game-changer.

For Hamas, a win means staying on its feet. The grand objective is to fuel and sustain a permanent state of conflict, constantly disrupt the status quo, and fight and murder to live another day.

Hamas is a vicious terror organization, a tyrannical political movement and an extremist, theocratic-nationalist ideology, so therefore a win means retaining residual military capabilities, sufficient political power and maintaining a level of legitimacy among the Palestinians.

This is where the concept of time and perspectives of time frames are relevant.

Israel needs to win now. This is the outcome of the magnitude, barbarity and level of devastation caused by the October 7 attack, as well as for the more vague concepts of restoring deterrence and dissuading Hezbollah from escalating

Hamas is not thinking about the here and now but in terms of decades. It seeks to undermine and delegitimize Israel, so a military defeat – as resounding and decisive as it might be – does not detract from that goal.

While Hamas cannot tolerate the Mideast status quo that existed, especially with the prospect of Israeli-Saudi relations, Israel turned the status quo into a comfort zone of denial.

In other words, Israel needs the win to be strategic in scope, while Hamas, if it is not entirely obliterated, may see defeat merely as a tactical setback. [/b]


Entire Article:
Click To View Spoiler


The goal posts can be continually moved to serve a particular narrative for Hamas. Just throw “which is what Hamas wanted” at the end of everything.


Nothing stated as a goal for Hamas is out of the ordinary for an insurgency.  They make perfect sense in this circumstance.

If you think they had other goals what were they?
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:58:35 AM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Clockwork138:

And they're saying "alleged Hamas 'armory'" in their headline.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Clockwork138:
Originally Posted By texashomeserver:

And they're saying "alleged Hamas 'armory'" in their headline.


Information provided by Israel
Media: " cannot be independently verified..."


Information provided by Hamas
Media: "Look at what the Jews are doing!"
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:59:05 AM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fike:


That vid has been used for a bunch of different things. Last week it was tunnels.

It’s a store (airsoft, outdoor gear, etc).
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fike:
Originally Posted By SoCalExile:
Vid of Hamas arms room: https://t.me/ILtoday/3828
Found under a hospital in Gaza City. According to the Geneva Conventions, these hospitals no longer enjoy "protected" status. They are hostile enemy camps.



That vid has been used for a bunch of different things. Last week it was tunnels.

It’s a store (airsoft, outdoor gear, etc).


lol I was thinking to myself, that looks more like a store than an "arms room".
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 10:59:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: thehun06] [#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SoCalExile:
Vid of Hamas arms room: https://t.me/ILtoday/3828
Found under a hospital in Gaza City. According to the Geneva Conventions, these hospitals no longer enjoy "protected" status. They are hostile enemy camps.

View Quote

How is Hamas getting all that Western gear ....
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 11:02:23 AM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thehun06:


How is HAMAS getting all that Western gear ...
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thehun06:
Originally Posted By SoCalExile:
Vid of Hamas arms room: https://t.me/ILtoday/3828
Found under a hospital in Gaza City. According to the Geneva Conventions, these hospitals no longer enjoy "protected" status. They are hostile enemy camps.



How is HAMAS getting all that Western gear ...


Ask FJB about what we left behind in AFG
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 11:04:23 AM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tyvar:

Except we've got a video now from CNN showing that elevator shaft is outside, while the tweet is trying to make it sound like its inside the building?

Its a service lift, I'll give him that, but one that goes that deep is damn suspicious in and of itself.
View Quote



I guess I don't understand the purpose of the tweet.  Do people think that with all of the millions Hamas spent of building tunnels that Hamas would hand carry all the equipment down in the tunnel instead of adding some lifts/elevators.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 11:05:30 AM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Clockwork138:
We do this yet?

400 Anonymous Biden Administration Officials Demand Cease-Fire



No surprise.
View Quote
Im curious who would organize such a thing and also how you anonymously sign something. In reality it could be 1, 2, or 10 people pretending, right?
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 11:09:10 AM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SoCalExile:
Vid of Hamas arms room: https://t.me/ILtoday/3828
Found under a hospital in Gaza City. According to the Geneva Conventions, these hospitals no longer enjoy "protected" status. They are hostile enemy camps.

View Quote

I wonder if they know they don't have to use braces.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 11:12:39 AM EDT
[#40]
????? ????? ???? ????: ???????? ??????? ?? ????? ?? ??"? ????? (????? ???)




The demolition of the terrorist's house from the attack at the Badalek Baali gas station

????? ???? ?? ????? ??????? ????? ???? ???? (????? ???)
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 11:12:59 AM EDT
[#41]


Link Posted: 11/14/2023 11:16:53 AM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sh768:
Information provided by Israel
Media: " cannot be independently verified..."
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sh768:
Information provided by Israel
Media: " cannot be independently verified..."

Or, in the case of the British media, they don't report it at all.

Originally Posted By sh768:
Information provided by Hamas
Media: "Look at what the Jews are doing!"

They then bury that it's based on accusations made by Hamas "officials" in the body of the article.

Link Posted: 11/14/2023 11:22:11 AM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Clockwork138:

Or, in the case of the British media, they don't report it at all.


They then bury that it's based on accusations made by Hamas "officials" in the body of the article.

View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Clockwork138:
Originally Posted By sh768:
Information provided by Israel
Media: " cannot be independently verified..."

Or, in the case of the British media, they don't report it at all.

Originally Posted By sh768:
Information provided by Hamas
Media: "Look at what the Jews are doing!"

They then bury that it's based on accusations made by Hamas "officials" in the body of the article.



The Guardian ( Brit tabloid ) - must have a Hamas staff and editor.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 11:22:52 AM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Clockwork138:
We do this yet?

400 Anonymous Biden Administration Officials Demand Cease-Fire



No surprise.
View Quote

How do you sign a letter and remain anonymous?
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 11:24:36 AM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By michigan66:


Nothing stated as a goal for Hamas is out of the ordinary for an insurgency.  They make perfect sense in this circumstance.

If you think they had other goals what were they?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By michigan66:
Originally Posted By fike:
Originally Posted By michigan66:
Lots of questions about who is winning in Gaza.  Problem is Israel and Hamas have different definitions of a win.

Haaretz | Israel News Analysis | What Would Israel and Hamas Consider a 'Win' in Gaza?

For Israel, nothing less than eradicating the terror organization here and now will be seen as a win. Hamas wants to sustain a permanent state of conflict, so just living to fight another day will be seen as a victory by its leaders

Highlights:
By conventional definition and the relevant metrics that measure power, there is no strategic proportionality whatsoever between Israel and Hamas. Israel is exponentially superior and stronger in every aspect. But sometimes the far more powerful can paradoxically find itself at a disadvantage.

This asymmetry uniquely exists when a state is at war with a non-state entity, and it relates particularly to the concepts of time and objective.

For Israel, a win invariably means comprehensively destroying Hamas militarily – or at least inflicting degrading, irretrievable military damage.

An Israeli win would also entail politically debilitating Hamas and rendering the terror organization incapable of exerting power and governing in Gaza. Anything less than that would amount to a limited tactical achievement, not a strategic game-changer.

For Hamas, a win means staying on its feet. The grand objective is to fuel and sustain a permanent state of conflict, constantly disrupt the status quo, and fight and murder to live another day.

Hamas is a vicious terror organization, a tyrannical political movement and an extremist, theocratic-nationalist ideology, so therefore a win means retaining residual military capabilities, sufficient political power and maintaining a level of legitimacy among the Palestinians.

This is where the concept of time and perspectives of time frames are relevant.

Israel needs to win now. This is the outcome of the magnitude, barbarity and level of devastation caused by the October 7 attack, as well as for the more vague concepts of restoring deterrence and dissuading Hezbollah from escalating

Hamas is not thinking about the here and now but in terms of decades. It seeks to undermine and delegitimize Israel, so a military defeat – as resounding and decisive as it might be – does not detract from that goal.

While Hamas cannot tolerate the Mideast status quo that existed, especially with the prospect of Israeli-Saudi relations, Israel turned the status quo into a comfort zone of denial.

In other words, Israel needs the win to be strategic in scope, while Hamas, if it is not entirely obliterated, may see defeat merely as a tactical setback. [/b]


Entire Article:
Click To View Spoiler


The goal posts can be continually moved to serve a particular narrative for Hamas. Just throw “which is what Hamas wanted” at the end of everything.


Nothing stated as a goal for Hamas is out of the ordinary for an insurgency.  They make perfect sense in this circumstance.

If you think they had other goals what were they?


It essentially starts and ends with the initial assessments of “the attack sidelined normalization attempts between SA and Israel and forces the IDF to take actions that will hurt their standing with neighbors in the ME”.

Attempting to portray the current situation for Hamas under the standards of “Hamas thinks in terms of decades” or even full fledged defeat as a “tactical setback”, is a spurious rebranding of reality.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 11:31:08 AM EDT
[#46]
Translation: The IDF destroyed the monument to the memory of Yasser Arafat in Tulkarm

??"? ??? ?? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 11:35:33 AM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By texashomeserver:
View Quote

Good video
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 11:41:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: realwar] [#48]
IDF reveals the firepower used by Hamas terrorists on the October 7th Massacre



IDF Special Underwater Unit Uncovers Hamas Weapons Arsenal

IDF Special Underwater Unit Uncovers Hamas Weapons Arsenal
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 11:47:19 AM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Clockwork138:
We do this yet?

400 Anonymous Biden Administration Officials Demand Cease-Fire



No surprise.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Clockwork138:
We do this yet?

400 Anonymous Biden Administration Officials Demand Cease-Fire

Four hundred government officials from 40 departments and agencies within President Biden's administration signed a letter opposing the president's handling of the Israel-Hamas war and demanded a cease-fire.

The Tuesday letter, first reported by the New York Times, includes officials from the State Department, White House, National Security Council and the Justice Department. The signatories of the letter remained anonymous to protect against professional retaliation.

"We call on President Biden to urgently demand a cease-fire; and to call for de-escalation of the current conflict by securing the immediate release of the Israeli hostages and arbitrarily detained Palestinians; the restoration of water, fuel, electricity and other basic services; and the passage of adequate humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip," the letter reads, in part.


No surprise.


Just makes it easier to justify purging everyone.
Link Posted: 11/14/2023 11:47:56 AM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Clockwork138:

And they're saying "alleged Hamas 'armory'" in their headline.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Clockwork138:
Originally Posted By texashomeserver:

And they're saying "alleged Hamas 'armory'" in their headline.


It’s an airsoft store.

The boots are on a sales racks
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