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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:00:35 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agreed. But now go back through just THIS thread and count all the people saying, "He should have just followed the law..."  The law most of them agree is "bullshit" and unConstitutional... but they follow it anyway and denigrate anyone stepping out of line.Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Our government, especially federal law enforcement is an outright criminal disgrace. The law most of them agree is "bullshit" and unConstitutional... but they follow it anyway and denigrate anyone stepping out of line.This appears to be on the same level. Fucking around with import sanctions is massively stupid, and not a 2nd amendment issue. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:02:08 PM EDT
[#2]
Pathetic.
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:04:34 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They went after the autokeycard guy too. It's like the govt is afraid of its citizens You made that connection too. It's almost as if there's a secret effort to make an example of gun YouTubers or something. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:07:37 PM EDT
[#4]
Have the pages of the thingy thing been posted in this thread yet? This twitter link has some of the "stipulation of facts" which larry signed. I'm not a lawyer, but I think this is the stuff he's agreed to.
They got him on txt, whatsapp, and email conspiring on the law letters to import B&Ts and getting parts for AK12, AK105, and bizon mags and shit, as well as general business colludings with kalashnikov concern with marketing and social media while they were sanctioned. They got trident LLC on the conspiring with vickers and the law letters to import some NFA stuff and then immediately listing it for sale on the internet forums.
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:09:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the war on drugs is largely unconsitutional, and people should be able to smoke weed if they want to. I still think someone that walks into a police station in, say, Alabama, and lights a joint under a no-smoking sign is a dumbass. This appears to be on the same level. Fucking around with import sanctions is massively stupid, and not a 2nd amendment issue. You are vying to be the last person with a sling-shot before the Feds outlaw them too... |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:09:00 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP should change the thread title. Vickers isnt just indicted. He plead guilty and testified against the others. That does seem silly that all he had to do to avoid this would be demo the gun for whatever agency. Buy them lunch, let them dump a couple mags. And then the letter of the law has been upheld and he can do whatever he was going to do with the MG afterwards. That's what it looked like, as written at least. This is less a prosecution focusin on the machine gun possession, and more of a prosecution focusing on compliance with importation regulations, it looks like. In any case, a simple letter to one LEO agency saying "dear sirs, I would like to demonstrate some firearms for your examination of possible sale", and a copy of that letter in a folder, is literally all he had to do. Doesn't matter if they never call him back, he demonstrated intent. Yes, the law shouldn't be there at all. And in particular, the import shit is way over the top IMHO. But what really got him, is he got sloppy and it cost him. Between this and the Scorpion Stock dude, one thing about getting railroaded for NFA violations - is that the railroad tends to hit people who are sloppy. My guess is Vickers got caught up in a dragnet iniated by the other dudes. And since he's the big name, he's the one we all talk about. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:10:34 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It sounds like Larry’s going away for a while, holmes Based on other cases I’ve seen, I think LAV will get 12-18 month in club Fed. It will be a farm camp w no walls and bed check only. If he can roll on a few other dealers, he might get zero time. What got him was the illegal import, the love letters was just the icing on the cake. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:11:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's what it looked like, as written at least. This is less a prosecution focusin on the machine gun possession, and more of a prosecution focusing on compliance with importation regulations, it looks like. In any case, a simple letter to one LEO agency saying "dear sirs, I would like to demonstrate some firearms for your examination of possible sale", and a copy of that letter in a folder, is literally all he had to do. Doesn't matter if they never call him back, he demonstrated intent. Yes, the law shouldn't be there at all. And in particular, the import shit is way over the top IMHO. But what really got him, is he got sloppy and it cost him. Between this and the Scorpion Stock dude, one thing about getting railroaded for NFA violations - is that the railroad tends to hit people who are sloppy. My guess is Vickers got caught up in a dragnet iniated by the other dudes. And since he's the big name, he's the one we all talk about. After reading the twitter link I posted a couple posts up, larry's involvement goes deeper than that. This wasn't just him not doing some demos of some MGs. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:12:14 PM EDT
[#9]
I like how they crucified him when there was no chance any of those weapons were going to be used in crimes.
Meanwhile our government gave machine guns to terrorist and the taliban. And were supposed to be okay with that. Pretty sure no one will be held accountable for that. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:13:16 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like how they crucified him when there was no chance any of those weapons were going to be used in crimes. Meanwhile our government gave machine guns to terrorist and the taliban. And were supposed to be okay with that. Importing stuff from a sanctioned country we are kinda sorta but not really at war with is frowned upon. I would assume a Delta guy would understand why giving money to people that are sanctioned is bad. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:14:13 PM EDT
[#11]
But they drop charges against black gangbangers with Glock switches, who actually use guns to commit crimes, because there are “too many black men in prison.”
Regulatory offenses, like this should be petty misdemeanors, punishable by a fine and forfeiture of the weapon, in the worst case scenario. But in reality, offenses like this are unconstitutional and shouldn’t be on the books. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:15:18 PM EDT
[#12]
If you or i did it.....we would be broke from paying lawyers, reason I don't mess around with the feds........
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:17:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Correct, they really should have known better. Absolutely.........Ive noticed just run of the mill FFL holders are dotting all the I's and crossing all the T's.........recently bought a rifle and had to stand in front of the camera holding my ID like a mug shot.............. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:18:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Damn, good luck man
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:18:30 PM EDT
[#15]
Printer Repairmen - 1
Ex-Delta Operator - 0  I like Larry, took some classes of his back in the day but it's stupid to break firearms laws no matter how unConstitutional they are. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:19:13 PM EDT
[#16]
Not a crime.
Case dismissed. NEXT. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:20:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Printer Repairmen - 1 Ex-Delta Operator - 0 I like Larry, took some classes of his back in the day but it's stupid to break firearms laws no matter how unConstitutional they are.  Gives some serious irony to your screen name too. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:20:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Remember the whole lesson on "A Right not openly and frequently exercised is easily taken"? By your reasoning, we just let the BATFE to continue to write their own laws whittling away at the 2A until there is NOTHING left. You are vying to be the last person with a sling-shot before the Feds outlaw them too... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think the war on drugs is largely unconsitutional, and people should be able to smoke weed if they want to. I still think someone that walks into a police station in, say, Alabama, and lights a joint under a no-smoking sign is a dumbass. This appears to be on the same level. Fucking around with import sanctions is massively stupid, and not a 2nd amendment issue. You are vying to be the last person with a sling-shot before the Feds outlaw them too... In this case it is particularly stupid, since there's a paper trail, and the sales records, clearly showing that fraudulent LE letters were used to get otherwise import banned items into the country for resale. I absolutely have sympathy for the blackwater situation, this one is a bit different. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:24:00 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The import sanction part has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment. Imports were controlled before and after the Constitution was written, such as the articles of association in 1774. You don't have a constitutional right to import and sell AK-12 parts kits. In this case it is particularly stupid, since there's a paper trail, and the sales records, clearly showing that fraudulent LE letters were used to get otherwise import banned items into the country for resale. I absolutely have sympathy for the blackwater situation, this one is a bit different. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:26:19 PM EDT
[#20]
The AK12 is what did him in trying to get a real unicorn like the AN-94. I know of 2 that were built and then seized by the ATF. They were on earlier kits that came in with bolt/carrier/Trunnion intact and the receiver was saw cut down the middle.
If you search around the files, you can find several of the long cut receivers that were sold. example- EG Long cut receiver. by FATFE this is still a MG as it is not properly demilled. Also this one is still a MG by definition |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:28:25 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have the pages of the thingy thing been posted in this thread yet? This twitter link has some of the "stipulation of facts" which larry signed. I'm not a lawyer, but I think this is the stuff he's agreed to. They got him on txt, whatsapp, and email conspiring on the law letters to import B&Ts and getting parts for AK12, AK105, and bizon mags and shit, as well as general business colludings with kalashnikov concern with marketing and social media while they were sanctioned. They got trident LLC on the conspiring with vickers and the law letters to import some NFA stuff and then immediately listing it for sale on the internet forums.
Was about to post this. It looks like they were trying to set up shop on AK12s here. Damn it! 
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:29:23 PM EDT
[#22]
I remember the AK-12 kit guns were making the rounds around the guntubers about a year ago. 9-hole reviews, Brandon Herrera etc. Since they now appear to be contraband, I wonder if they are going to be peppering their Angus soon?
 
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:29:49 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ... and this is how we end up with even MORE unConstitutional gun laws. JFC... SMH. Gives some serious irony to your screen name too. Give it a rest. My post isn't going to increase gun control. What you don't get is they are never going to stop until all of the guns are out of our hands and/or we're dead. All of your bitching, crying, letter writing etc. isn't going to stop them. I bet you'll give up your firearms without a fight. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:30:02 PM EDT
[#24]
How many M4 with PVS14, Quad Lens Gen 5 NVG, etc did Pedo Joe Beijing Biden leave the Taliban?
Which has caused more crime & murder in the world? MSG Vickers' weapons imported on ATF F6 or Biden? |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:30:07 PM EDT
[#25]
LAV is a good dude. Dudes been through a lot these last few years. Just keeps getting kicked while he's down.
Fucking clown world. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:31:15 PM EDT
[#26]
I wonder if this will increase or decrease the value of Vickers Glocks.
I also wonder if he had a TBL decal on his vehicle? |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:31:57 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: After reading the twitter link I posted a couple posts up, larry's involvement goes deeper than that. This wasn't just him not doing some demos of some MGs. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:32:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Importing stuff from a sanctioned country we are kinda sorta but not really at war with is frowned upon. I would assume a Delta guy would understand why giving money to people that are sanctioned is bad. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I like how they crucified him when there was no chance any of those weapons were going to be used in crimes. Meanwhile our government gave machine guns to terrorist and the taliban. And were supposed to be okay with that. Importing stuff from a sanctioned country we are kinda sorta but not really at war with is frowned upon. I would assume a Delta guy would understand why giving money to people that are sanctioned is bad. Didn’t he give them like $6 Billion or something? Oh wait 
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:33:19 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Printer Repairmen - 1 Ex-Delta Operator - 0 I like Larry, took some classes of his back in the day but it's stupid to break firearms laws no matter how unConstitutional they are. I was assured on ARFCOM that non-compliance is what all the cool kids are doing 
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:36:27 PM EDT
[#30]
Larry is a very smart guy and was making a ton of money, I can’t believe he would take the risk. smh.
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:38:26 PM EDT
[#31]
Billions to Uke and Israel to arm it's citizens but going after LV over stupid shit like a law letter?
So....No more guns for Larry or did his plea include an option to keep them? |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:39:56 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Billions to Uke and Israel to arm it's citizens but going after LV over stupid shit like a law letter? So....No more guns for Larry or did his plea include an option to keep them? I don't think there's such a thing as pleading guilty to a Federal felony and keeping your guns. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:40:27 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Importing stuff from a sanctioned country we are kinda sorta but not really at war with is frowned upon. I would assume a Delta guy would understand why giving money to people that are sanctioned is bad. Did the importing madhine guns happen befpre or after Feb 2022? He had a lots of youtube shows below that date and before he had his cancer treatment, of trips to russia |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:41:21 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn’t he give them like $6 Billion or something? Oh wait He worked for the government long enough to understand how the world works. He played the game and got burned. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:43:01 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is where I'm at with blatant firearms law violations. I personally believe that every single firearm law on the books is bullshit and an infringement of everyone's 2A rights. I also believe that if someone openly violates existing law (however stupid it is), they're a fucking idiot. I don't hope they get caught, but if they do I can't have much sympathy. What did he think was going to happen?! It's stupid. You will get caught - everything has been tried and the FBATFE has figured it out. Is the NFA unconstitutional? Yes. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:44:36 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah that makes a lot more sense than him randomly getting picked out of a sea of people with sketchy post dealer samples. Yup, conspiring to import MG's from foreign countries will get you noticed. I feel really bad for him, but God damned... what a stupid thing to do. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:44:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did the importing madhine guns happen befpre or after Feb 2022? He had a lots of youtube shows below that date and before he had his cancer treatment, of trips to russia I think the outright ban on all guns/ammo from Russia goes back to 2021 or maybe even earlier. I know some stuff was banned from import from Russia way before that. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:50:20 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember the AK-12 kit guns were making the rounds around the guntubers about a year ago. 9-hole reviews, Brandon Herrera etc. Since they now appear to be contraband, I wonder if they are going to be peppering their Angus soon? had the same thought |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:53:03 PM EDT
[#39]
Oooh. HK G28 SBR and Stg90s. I feel bad for someone with such classy taste in rifles.
 Quoted: So....No more guns for Larry or did his plea include an option to keep them? Release order (n) says... 
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Posted: 10/20/2023 5:56:19 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm confused as to why vickers did not even try to fight this? There is obviously some more stuff missing for details on what they had for a case. And if I was him I would not go to prison at 60 over this shit. No fucking way. That's all I'm saying on that. The justice system would rather take all his money from him instead of throwing him in prison. I am also wondering why he got to keep some machine guns and not others. Our gun laws are absolutely garbage and have never been intended to be used against actual criminals, just citizens that are trying to enjoy their second amendment rights and unfortunately get caught making some small mistake with our non stop changing gun laws/rules. If only one federal department could be gone immediately I would vote atf. They only move forward on cases they know they can win. To fight Federal charges you need multiple $450+ an hour attorneys. And money to pay them. Unless you have "fuck you" money or a huge fund raising effort, you're going to cut a deal or they will bankrupt you. I knew a guy, 100% innocent of the charges, that his attorney told him "take the deal... give them the win... do the time... you're already broke...." He did. Couldn't afford to fight. That's why US attorneys have a near 100% conviction rate. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:02:48 PM EDT
[#41]
Hmm…the conversations around Kalashnikov Concern (blueprints, US company, etc.) sure sounds like Kalashnikov USA.
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:05:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Having seen enough of his videos to understand that he's pretty cocky, I guarantee his own hubris got him in trouble. He believed the hype that he was the top dog of the guntubers and trainers due to his SOFD-D career and figured that and his friendship with a lot of LEO's would keep him out of trouble. Dude was a traveling instructor. He could have scheduled a weekend course anywhere he wanted, showed up Friday morning, did a range demo to members of the local PD, and kept everything legit. Instead, he used his reputation and relationships to acquire things most people can't get just for personal and professional gain without doing all the steps required by law. In reality, he's no different than the Lake Arthur reserve cops. The NFA and GCA are bullshit laws, but they are the laws of the land. If you've got legitimate ways to bypass them, do it, but do it all correctly and don't be surprised if failing to do so causes you to get your dick slapped. In short, he fucked around and found out. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:05:37 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Department of "Justice" has literally thousands of attorneys who get a monthly USG check from the Treasury (tax $). They only move forward on cases they know they can win. To fight Federal charges you need multiple $450+ an hour attorneys. And money to pay them. Unless you have "fuck you" money or a huge fund raising effort, you're going to cut a deal or they will bankrupt you. I knew a guy, 100% innocent of the charges, that his attorney told him "take the deal... give them the win... do the time... you're already broke...." He did. Couldn't afford to fight. That's why US attorneys have a near 100% conviction rate. That's stomach turning.
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:06:11 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Based on other cases I’ve seen, I think LAV will get 12-18 month in club Fed. It will be a farm camp w no walls and bed check only. If he can roll on a few other dealers, he might get zero time. What got him was the illegal import, the love letters was just the icing on the cake. and being a convicted felon his days of firearm instruction to those who enter into harms way are over. His livelihood is gone.
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:07:05 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oooh. HK G28 SBR and Stg90s. I feel bad for someone with such classy taste in rifles. https://i.imgur.com/KqVRFfN.png Release order (n) says... https://i.imgur.com/I66q7Hn.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Oooh. HK G28 SBR and Stg90s. I feel bad for someone with such classy taste in rifles. https://i.imgur.com/KqVRFfN.png Quoted: So....No more guns for Larry or did his plea include an option to keep them? Release order (n) says... https://i.imgur.com/I66q7Hn.jpg At least he's still allowed to get drunk. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:12:35 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Department of "Justice" has literally thousands of attorneys who get a monthly USG check from the Treasury (tax $). They only move forward on cases they know they can win. To fight Federal charges you need multiple $450+ an hour attorneys. And money to pay them. Unless you have "fuck you" money or a huge fund raising effort, you're going to cut a deal or they will bankrupt you. I knew a guy, 100% innocent of the charges, that his attorney told him "take the deal... give them the win... do the time... you're already broke...." He did. Couldn't afford to fight. That's why US attorneys have a near 100% conviction rate. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm confused as to why vickers did not even try to fight this? There is obviously some more stuff missing for details on what they had for a case. And if I was him I would not go to prison at 60 over this shit. No fucking way. That's all I'm saying on that. The justice system would rather take all his money from him instead of throwing him in prison. I am also wondering why he got to keep some machine guns and not others. Our gun laws are absolutely garbage and have never been intended to be used against actual criminals, just citizens that are trying to enjoy their second amendment rights and unfortunately get caught making some small mistake with our non stop changing gun laws/rules. If only one federal department could be gone immediately I would vote atf. They only move forward on cases they know they can win. To fight Federal charges you need multiple $450+ an hour attorneys. And money to pay them. Unless you have "fuck you" money or a huge fund raising effort, you're going to cut a deal or they will bankrupt you. I knew a guy, 100% innocent of the charges, that his attorney told him "take the deal... give them the win... do the time... you're already broke...." He did. Couldn't afford to fight. That's why US attorneys have a near 100% conviction rate. Or you have to be so broke dick you can qualify for a federal public defender. Kharn |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:12:36 PM EDT
[#47]
I get F the Fed.. Im that guy.
I get F gun Control. Also that guy. But i have a hard time feeling sorry for Vickers. He was allowed to have shit you and I cant have cause we dont have "Friends" in the goverment who allow us to have shit the normal every day guy cant have. He was stupid for trusting the gov but F rules for thee but not for me. If an FFL/SOT can have a thing every average Joe should be able to have a thing. This episode only proves you cant trust the GD gov and any one who works for them. Shall not be infringed is a rule or it aint and there should not be "Special people" who get to skirt that. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:12:47 PM EDT
[#48]
What a bunch of horse shit, the man to a huge risk to serve his country and he gets this shit? JFK
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:13:02 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Department of "Justice" has literally thousands of attorneys who get a monthly USG check from the Treasury (tax $). They only move forward on cases they know they can win. To fight Federal charges you need multiple $450+ an hour attorneys. And money to pay them. Unless you have "fuck you" money or a huge fund raising effort, you're going to cut a deal or they will bankrupt you. I knew a guy, 100% innocent of the charges, that his attorney told him "take the deal... give them the win... do the time... you're already broke...." He did. Couldn't afford to fight. That's why US attorneys have a near 100% conviction rate. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm confused as to why vickers did not even try to fight this? There is obviously some more stuff missing for details on what they had for a case. And if I was him I would not go to prison at 60 over this shit. No fucking way. That's all I'm saying on that. The justice system would rather take all his money from him instead of throwing him in prison. I am also wondering why he got to keep some machine guns and not others. Our gun laws are absolutely garbage and have never been intended to be used against actual criminals, just citizens that are trying to enjoy their second amendment rights and unfortunately get caught making some small mistake with our non stop changing gun laws/rules. If only one federal department could be gone immediately I would vote atf. They only move forward on cases they know they can win. To fight Federal charges you need multiple $450+ an hour attorneys. And money to pay them. Unless you have "fuck you" money or a huge fund raising effort, you're going to cut a deal or they will bankrupt you. I knew a guy, 100% innocent of the charges, that his attorney told him "take the deal... give them the win... do the time... you're already broke...." He did. Couldn't afford to fight. That's why US attorneys have a near 100% conviction rate. If the Feds offer a deal, take it. If you fight it you’ll lose, go broke and do 5 x as many years as you would taking the deal. |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:14:31 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuck the ATF. Dude goes out and serves his country doing some real dangerous shit and this is how he gets paid back. Despicable. Amen! |
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