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Posted: 11/24/2021 10:39:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: My God that’s a ton to carry. They just hang shit on our boys until they can't move then take off a pound. 
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Posted: 11/24/2021 10:42:58 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To blend in with the local smells they would have cooked rice stuffed in socks, eating what the locals ate No C rations allowed My dad was in the LRRPs and said they ate "indigenous rations". |
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Posted: 11/24/2021 10:46:25 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: From this link: https://gatdaily.com/john-tilt-meyers-macv-sog-loadout/ 34 - 20 round magazines loaded 18 to a mag Sawed off M-79 grenade launcher with 12 rounds. Each team member carried this. 10-12 fragmentation grenades I assume water and some stripped down C-rats but that’s not stated here. My God that’s a ton to carry. I read some of those reports when I was infantry in the 80's. Not that I ever used them but stories like that convinced me to run two 3 mag packs on each side of my LBE belt plus a SAW pouch on my ruck that held 7 more mags. Figured 20 30 rounders total plus 4 frags on my belt wouldn't be a bad thing in the days of commie hordes coming across the W. German border. Of course I was the guy with 2 canteens on my belt and a 2 quart on my pack for a gallon total. It's been said the only time you can have too much ammo is when you're swimming. |
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Posted: 11/24/2021 10:52:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My dad was in the LRRPs and said they ate "indigenous rations". Everything there stinks like sweat and fish, sweat and beef is different. |
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Posted: 11/24/2021 10:59:58 PM EDT
[#5]
I know a hard ass that was a LRRP in 'Nam, he told me they carried gas masks and CS grenades for the M79's as well. "The Vietnamese didn't have gas masks", he said they would throw gas in the "mad minute" and break contact.
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Posted: 11/24/2021 11:20:13 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I was a LRRP, some of the old-hand tricks passed down included taping your halazone water purification tablets to the canteen cap strap. We had 5-quart water bladders. You could carry a bunch of Dutch V40 mini-frags in a canteen cover. These were B-52 patrol tips: B-52 Patrolling Tips Downloaded and saved. |
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Posted: 11/24/2021 11:40:44 PM EDT
[#7]
I’ll have to listen to those podcasts. I’ve read Meyers’ Across The Fence and it’s a great book.
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Posted: 11/24/2021 11:41:49 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Downloaded and saved. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: When I was a LRRP, some of the old-hand tricks passed down included taping your halazone water purification tablets to the canteen cap strap. We had 5-quart water bladders. You could carry a bunch of Dutch V40 mini-frags in a canteen cover. These were B-52 patrol tips: B-52 Patrolling Tips Downloaded and saved. There are B-720 tips out there as well, from 7th SFG IIRC. If you're into that sort of thing. Ed Wolcoff of RT New York wrote a book, Special Reconnaissance and Advanced Small Unit Patrolling: TTPs for Special Operations Forces, that's in the same vein that was very good. It's available in PDF form with a bit of googling. |
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Posted: 11/24/2021 11:52:27 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yall need to listen to Tilt's new SOGCast. 11 episodes up on Spotify, 1st YouTube vid went up today. How do I find it on spotify ? Under SOGcast ? |
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Posted: 11/24/2021 11:56:08 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Sawed off M-79 grenade launcher with 12 rounds. Each team member carried this." That was just RT Idaho. Other teams could be different depending on personal choice. Alabama and Habu carried similar loadouts. I’ve read quite a few books on SOG and they all seem fairly similar. They say the NVA would think they were a company with the firepower one team could put out. |
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Posted: 11/24/2021 11:57:54 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: read: John Stryker Meyer John Plaster Lynn Black Nick Brokhausen - very entertaining along with the action. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 12:01:38 AM EDT
[#12]
Where is our very own RT UTAH at? He's done a ton of research on MACV-SOG and there was the Epic thread in Team from a member here who found his uncles old MACV-SOG gear.
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Posted: 11/25/2021 12:04:53 AM EDT
[#13]
Talk about rolling HEAVY
  
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Posted: 11/25/2021 12:08:39 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How do I find it on spotify ? Under SOGcast ? Yes |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 12:08:59 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How do I find it on spotify ? Under SOGcast ? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yall need to listen to Tilt's new SOGCast. 11 episodes up on Spotify, 1st YouTube vid went up today. How do I find it on spotify ? Under SOGcast ? It popped up on my Youtube stuff. Looks like Jocko helped them setup their own new podcast. Should be some badass stuff coming up soon. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 12:09:33 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where is our very own RT UTAH at? He's done a ton of research on MACV-SOG and there was the Epic thread in Team from a member here who found his uncles old MACV-SOG gear. @RTUTAH |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 12:09:42 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where is our very own RT UTAH at? He's done a ton of research on MACV-SOG and there was the Epic thread in Team from a member here who found his uncles old MACV-SOG gear. He wrote a sog book also and recently sat in on one of Tilt's Sogcasts. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 12:10:31 AM EDT
[#18]
https://www.historynet.com/studies-and-observations-group-vietnam.htm
"MACV-SOG recon casualties exceeded 100 percent, the highest sustained American loss rate since the Civil War. In 1968, every MACV-SOG recon man was wounded at least once, and about half were killed. But despite such high losses, MACV-SOG boasted the highest “kill ratio” in U.S. military history, topping out at 158-to-1 in 1970." That's pretty fucking wild. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 12:14:15 AM EDT
[#19]
Knew a guy who did that.
Sounds about right on the load out. Told me he always had at least 20, 20 rounders and 10 frag grenades. Sometimes 30+ magazines and a belt for the M60. Told me they didn't carry anything else except a canteen or two of water, compass, map. If it didn't go bang they didn't want to carry it. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 12:56:57 AM EDT
[#20]
Off topic, but I knew one SNCO in the Marines that had served in a CAP unit (Combined Action Platoon) and while they stayed near their ville they went out to set up ambushes every night and their M79 dude carried a WP bag full of 40MM. They never knew if the ville would turn on them and they'd have to fight their way back to a line unit which was usually a days hump away.
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Posted: 11/25/2021 1:03:11 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just learned my FIL was MACV. Had no idea. Trying to learn more now. My uncle was too, but he won't talk about Vietnam. 
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Posted: 11/25/2021 1:09:06 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everything there stinks like sweat and fish, sweat and beef is different. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My dad was in the LRRPs and said they ate "indigenous rations". Everything there stinks like sweat and fish, sweat and beef is different. I took a Vietnam course in college and the prof would open a bottle of some fish sauce for the class to smell. Said one day a Vietnam vet was in the building for a totally unrelated reason and simply followed his nose to her class. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 1:14:47 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Going where they did, behind enemy lines. I would want all the ammo I could carry. Also you did not add the weight of their big brass balls to the total weight  This... |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 1:20:32 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It popped up on my Youtube stuff. Looks like Jocko helped them setup their own new podcast. Should be some badass stuff coming up soon. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yall need to listen to Tilt's new SOGCast. 11 episodes up on Spotify, 1st YouTube vid went up today. How do I find it on spotify ? Under SOGcast ? It popped up on my Youtube stuff. Looks like Jocko helped them setup their own new podcast. Should be some badass stuff coming up soon. I'll be sure to check that out. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 1:29:36 AM EDT
[#25]
Considering guys wouldn't even carry that rolling into a deliberate assault... I'm guessing a fair amount of that is exaggerated given the years. That load out would make moving fast and quietly difficult... Which was sort of the point of the RT teams.
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Posted: 11/25/2021 1:30:38 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I took a Vietnam course in college and the prof would open a bottle of some fish sauce for the class to smell. Said one day a Vietnam vet was in the building for a totally unrelated reason and simply followed his nose to her class. I've known a fair few people that arrived in the US as refugees after the Vietnam war. Evidently we smell like Knorr beef sauce. 
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Posted: 11/25/2021 2:12:29 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That load out would make moving fast and quietly difficult... Which was sort of the point of the RT teams. Recon is typically done slowly and deliberately. If, or when you make contact is when you need to break contact and move out quickly. Give you an idea of how an ambush might work (Australian SASR patrol example):  The Odd Angry Shot |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 2:36:58 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Considering guys wouldn't even carry that rolling into a deliberate assault... I'm guessing a fair amount of that is exaggerated given the years. That load out would make moving fast and quietly difficult... Which was sort of the point of the RT teams. In the books referenced in this thread, they actually have photos of the gear lay-outs. And, yeah they did. Even line units back then carried a lot more ammo than we would consider normal now. And from my personal experience over 4 tours, I’d say they knew what they were doing. Really it’s not all that far fetched. The standard 7 mag load out is bullshit, and I didn’t go out without at least 10. My last 2 tours(Iraq 2008, Afghanistan ‘10) if I knew we were going somewhere with the potential for real trouble I carried 24 mags (2-40 rd on my carbine, 8 30s & a 40 on my gear, a bandolier with 6 more 30s, and another bandolier with 7 20s). Granted, I was a squad leader and I knew both of the 249s in my squad would actually run mags like they were supposed to. And I figured that I could keep us fighting longer if we had to. I had my people carry extra as well. Yeah I was in the minority with this. But after I left, my unit got into some heavier fighting. One of my guys told me later that after all that, he understood exactly why I did what I did and I trained them to do the same. And most of the other guys I knew, who either had several tours or at least one bad one, tended to have the same mindset I did about this. There just weren’t that many of us, relatively speaking. When you know help is not going to get to you quickly, if at all, you carry a lot of ammo if you’re smart. There were lots of occasions where isolated units got into 4-5 hour firefights-it happened more often than was reported back here. How far do you think 7 mags will get you in something like that? Yeah all that ammo weight sucks. I can remember days where I was praying to get shot at so I could use some ammo and lighten my load. Newsflash: war is not fun. But the suck factor of carrying all that ammo sucks less then ending up in a flag-draped coffin because you ran out. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 2:42:07 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, the point of reconnaissance was to find or report on the enemy. Recon is typically done slowly and deliberately. If, or when you make contact is when you need to break contact and move out quickly. Give you an idea of how an ambush might work (Australian SASR patrol example):  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBrGoSkp9roAn old friend of mine calls it “the ballet of death”. Probably the best description of it. The movie that clip was from is one of my personal favorites. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 3:23:51 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Had two second lieutenant friends in the Ammo Handling Area doing an inventory (2nd Infantry Division DMZ battalion in Korea). One asked the other if those things (plastic M14 Anti-Personnel Mine) are real, and how sensitive the fuses are. No kidding, one removes the safety clip, turns the head to arm, and throws it down on to the black top. Boom. One walked back into the orderly room peppered and blackened, his fatigues smoking, looking like Wile E. Coyote in a Roadrunner cartoon. Birth control glasses protected his eyes, but he couldn't hear for a couple of hours. He eventually made full Colonel. I don't know what happened to the thrower.  that visualization though. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:14:36 AM EDT
[#31]
I loved the best quote from SOG by John Plaster.
"I've got them surrounded from the inside." "Mad Dog" Shiver. To my general understanding that SOG had the freedom to outfit the anyway they wanted from foreign to US made weapons. Laurie Thorne used the 1903 Springfield One of the MOH winners I believed used a Gryojet pistol. Someone actually used a bow and arrow during a mission. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 5:29:35 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He wrote a sog book also and recently sat in on one of Tilt's Sogcasts. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Where is our very own RT UTAH at? He's done a ton of research on MACV-SOG and there was the Epic thread in Team from a member here who found his uncles old MACV-SOG gear. He wrote a sog book also and recently sat in on one of Tilt's Sogcasts. Its a good read. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 6:10:23 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They just hang shit on our boys until they can't move then take off a pound. My first deployment when I was AB'ing for my TL with the 240L I went on target with 1000 rounds of 7.62 in a medium ALICE, CW gear, water, snacks, PVS-15's, helmet, spare batteries times a fuckload, M4 + 7 mags, plate carrier with XL plates and radio. Plus a bunch of little shit. Typically when we weighed out for load planning I was around ~360lb with all gear ready to go. This was when 8-12K infils were typical with at least a couple thousand feet of elevation gain unless we got that coveted on the Y infil which almost never happened. On the plus side those Nam guys didn't have to worry about body armor and plates |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 6:56:44 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: From this link: https://gatdaily.com/john-tilt-meyers-macv-sog-loadout/ 34 - 20 round magazines loaded 18 to a mag Sawed off M-79 grenade launcher with 12 rounds. Each team member carried this. 10-12 fragmentation grenades I assume water and some stripped down C-rats but that’s not stated here. My God that’s a ton to carry. Lol. Spoken like someone who has never carried the PRC 70, DMDG and generator. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 7:06:43 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've known a fair few people that arrived in the US as refugees after the Vietnam war. Evidently we smell like Knorr beef sauce. ] We smell like greasy meat. GF is Vietnamese, not born in the US, but that comment comes from her older family members. Her family members and their homes definitely smell different, but I wouldn't say fish (sauce), I've never put too much thought into exactly what the smell is. I've gotten to where I really like the fish sauces. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 7:28:30 AM EDT
[#36]
Interesting pictures of the different weapons they used: https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/the-unique-weapons-of-macv-sogs-covert-commandos-in-vietnam/
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Posted: 11/25/2021 7:34:38 AM EDT
[#37]
Tagged.
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Posted: 11/25/2021 8:01:26 AM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 11/25/2021 8:40:35 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I was a LRRP, some of the old-hand tricks passed down included taping your halazone water purification tablets to the canteen cap strap. We had 5-quart water bladders. You could carry a bunch of Dutch V40 mini-frags in a canteen cover. These were B-52 patrol tips: B-52 Patrolling Tips Thanks for posting that. It was a good read. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 9:20:51 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We smell like greasy meat. GF is Vietnamese, not born in the US, but that comment comes from her older family members. Her family members and their homes definitely smell different, but I wouldn't say fish (sauce), I've never put too much thought into exactly what the smell is. I've gotten to where I really like the fish sauces. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I've known a fair few people that arrived in the US as refugees after the Vietnam war. Evidently we smell like Knorr beef sauce. ] We smell like greasy meat. GF is Vietnamese, not born in the US, but that comment comes from her older family members. Her family members and their homes definitely smell different, but I wouldn't say fish (sauce), I've never put too much thought into exactly what the smell is. I've gotten to where I really like the fish sauces. I had a Scout Pilot that could smell the bad guys before he actually found them as he buzzed the treetops in his Loach. He really could. When we heard him say "I smell 'em" we had to get ready because that meant he was about to get shot at. Without fail he always did. He had an incredible sense of smell or they were extremely smelly and he knew what their smell was. Maybe both. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 9:37:29 AM EDT
[#41]
SFC Bob Howard with a cut down M-14.
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Posted: 11/25/2021 9:38:56 AM EDT
[#42]
I guess this is one way to carry it all. Not sure what the chest rig is. Maybe a claymore mine bag or a med kit or gas mask bag?
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Posted: 11/25/2021 9:54:56 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Considering guys wouldn't even carry that rolling into a deliberate assault... I'm guessing a fair amount of that is exaggerated given the years. That load out would make moving fast and quietly difficult... Which was sort of the point of the RT teams. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 9:57:56 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess this is one way to carry it all. Not sure what the chest rig is. Maybe a claymore mine bag or a med kit or gas mask bag? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/107472/1274F47A-66AB-40DD-951E-CE7C0EDEE370-2180441.jpg |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 10:25:42 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I took a Vietnam course in college and the prof would open a bottle of some fish sauce for the class to smell. Said one day a Vietnam vet was in the building for a totally unrelated reason and simply followed his nose to her class. My spelling is gonna be off but I believe that is called “Nuc-Mam” or something like that. I worked with a Viet refuge and it is like Frank’s Hot Sauce to them. It’s basically the runoff from salted fish. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 10:35:06 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess this is one way to carry it all. Not sure what the chest rig is. Maybe a claymore mine bag or a med kit or gas mask bag? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/107472/1274F47A-66AB-40DD-951E-CE7C0EDEE370-2180441.jpg I think it's a Corpsman field medical bag. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 10:46:32 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What other information did you want? A list of all the MOSs of people who wore the MACV patch? If so that's gonna be a long and boring list. Guy said he discovered his FIL was MACV in a MACV-SOG thread, so I was just commenting that one didn't automatically equal the other. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 10:52:24 AM EDT
[#48]
I asked in the mil forum but I'll ask here again:
Any way to verify if a Marine was assigned to MAC-V SOG? I know someone making claims that don't add up. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:00:06 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I asked in the mil forum but I'll ask here again: Any way to verify if a Marine was assigned to MAC-V SOG? I know someone making claims that don't add up. Doubt you could verify membership in that unit. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:03:18 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think it's a Corpsman field medical bag. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I guess this is one way to carry it all. Not sure what the chest rig is. Maybe a claymore mine bag or a med kit or gas mask bag? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/107472/1274F47A-66AB-40DD-951E-CE7C0EDEE370-2180441.jpg I think it's a Corpsman field medical bag. I think you’re right. When I searched the image, this popped up. https://www.gear-illustration.com/2016/05/09/rubberized-canvas-m3-medic-bag-vietnam-war-era/ |
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