I can see someone leaving their pistol with mounted sight sitting in the window of their bedroom. "I have the charge up my gun"

after the EMP, we'll be using iron sights.

I was making a broad statement. The PRC is a communist nation run by a dictator.  All of the businesses there are linked in one way or another to the government. So the trillions that they save by stealing trade secrets from other countries benefit all PRC companies as whole.

Yes, there is some phenomenal technological advances being made in the PRC, especially in the areas of supercomputing but make no mistake, the base research…..the slog of spending money to get to the higher levels of technology were for the most part stolen.

Look back a few years when a member here, Marshal I believe, formed Primary Arms. His only product in those days was an Aimpoint knock-off that he had manufactured in the PRC. They were decent, not great but decent for the $35 they cost.  

I'm willing to bet a case p-mags* that the base tech for those scopes came from RD done here in the states or elsewhere but not China. I'm also betting that the subsequent tech of battery life, optics, etc…also was stolen  

Sure, they're now doing some good independent RD on their own but don't forget they got there by PRC government sanctioned and enabled theft of intellectual property from other companies.

That being said, at times I certainly buy CHICOM goods. I try to avoid them if I can but it's about impossible in today's world.


*Note: The term "I'll bet a case of P-mags" is meant to convey a strong opinion and is in the common vernacular of ARFCOM. It in no way alludes to betting an actual case of P-mags.

Not arguing. Just a hell of a way to go down in history.

You do realize that patents run out every minute and nothing in a red dot in terms of design matters, right?

Given how man places Holosun has put solar cells, buttons, features, etc., you do realize that by your logic Trijicon and Aimpoint basically can't innovate now. There is no place left on an MRDS body for Trijicon to sue their competitors over button placement anymore, and if they even think about putting a solar cell on a piece of aluminum or put the rear lens ahead of the elevation adjustment Holosun's lawyers will go scorched earth and put a boot up their ass so far they will taste kiwi polish for a month, right?

Is this one of those Call of Duty EMP’s that kill red dots, or like, a real one?

It made me feel dirty but I replaced my 7 Trijicon RMR type 2s with Holosun 508ts and 509ts because I got sick of reconfirming zero every year when I swapped batteries. I would gladly pay more for an equivalent American optic but Trijicon refuses to innovate. Their release of the RMRcc shows just how out of touch they are. Hopefully the Aimpoint Acro P-2 isn't a flop.

Yeah the RMScc release was 10/10 . You can't try to roll out a new micro footprint after a (non Chinese) competitor (Shield) has gotten one to be industry standard for years now. Trying to use your clout to box people out of other options by coming up with proprietary footprints gross

I ditched Trijicon for Holosun last year and couldn’t be happier.  Holosun products are fantastic and always innovating.  Even the 515 and 530 rifle optics are rough as nails.  I’ll buy at least two of these new sights.

I wonder what life expectancy you can expect from the internal battery.  
How many times can it be charged before it will no longer take a charge and becomes a paper weight?

Offhand I would not be super concerned. $20 watches have been doing it fine for decades.

Look, I'm not arguing with you. I'm simply stating facts and they are that every single company and corporation the PRC are "run" by the government at some level. That's not conjecture, that's a fact. Secondly China steals 100's of billions of dollars in intellectual property every single year.  Again, that's a fact and I'm little more than open source news familiar with that problem set.

Yes, the days of direct patent infringement of technology are coming to an end.

My point was simply that China, hence Chinese companies, have a sizable advantage.  In simple terms let's say that Trijicon invests $10M in some new technology and hopes to recoup their investment. What will occur is that China will steal that RD through industrial espionage. They'll examine the tech and modify it to avoid patent infringement. Hell, most the time they improve it and then using their government run and managed environment they manufacture that product for substantially less money…..and they saved the $10M in initial RD.

The fact is that China practices industrial espionage on scale the world has never seen before and if you don't understand that it plays a role even in something as mundane as a red dot then I'd say you're uninformed. They put the Israelis to shame...

I'll take three.

Do they steal IP?  Of course they do.  But your example is a little off as it relates to these products.  Stealing IP certainly saves development cost, but that only gives you a “me too” product.  Holosun isn’t stealing anything from anyone.  They are the leaders in innovation.  If anything, Trijicon will need to steal their ideas if they at least want to catch up.  Point is, you cannot accuse the company with the most innovative and advanced products of stealing from those who haven’t innovated in a decade.

The argument that the Chinese stole the solar power, shake awake, auto adjust, and multiple reticles from an American optics manufacturer needs validation.  Which American company developed those technologies and brought them to market first?  

Look, it's well known that the Chinese steal IP.  It was a given in the manufacturing sector that if you had your product sourced from a Chinese factory, they would be your main competition within 18 months.  I'm not defending them, just asking for someone to point out the source of the technology in this case.

ETA: Dang, beat like a mule!

Lol. Ok.

You're not a Chinese national by any chance are you?

You're looking at all of this myopically. Think in broad terms about an environment, China, where companies don't compete but rather share all technologies to create a world-wide economic advantage and that much of the base technology was originally stolen.

Ok there has been quite a bit of bitching. What is the solution?

So broadly speaking; environmentally of course, which industries were solar power, shake awake, auto adjust, and multiple reticles obtained from?

I'm happy to outright support them, fuck china (until I decide my outrage ends where muh savings begin)!

This is one of the problems with a medium such as here on GD. You seem to have intimated with your comment that I'm bitching. I'm not. I'm just giving an observation.

To your point ref what to do?  Well, I'm not sure what the real answer is. The world is addicted to inexpensive Chinese goods and of course the problem is that these profits fuel a regime that seeks to control the world. The Chinese 100 year plan is real and if you haven't already you should read it, or at least the abstract.  Economic LOOs are currently their main effort but that may change as they gain momentum. Read up on DIMEFIL as well if you haven't already, as elements of national power.

So I suppose one of the answers is realizing that China is slowly, very slowly, slicing the throat of the West with a knife that we have sharpened for them.  One thing is for certain and that's that we are at war with China.  Until our leaders exhibit the political will to address this we will continue down the path to extinction of the West as we know it. Kind of tough to do though when you have a sitting POTUS whose in bed with them.

Anyways, I didn't mean to turn this into political "hate-china" thread.  I'll back out.

6-8 hrs to full charge which will last 2000 hrs…. Apparently.

Auto adjust only is fucking gay and disgusting.

My optics don’t have batteries

So it takes a whole new factory to build a new product?

If thats the case, Triji has really been dragging their feet, because HS showed a functioning prototype of this sight at SHOT 2020.  The video was posted earlier in this thread.

ETA: My mistake, Dumak posted the video in My Thread about the new EPS sights:

Source? If so that’s excellent. Not to mention it’ll probably charge up fully as long as you leave it under a lamp for a night

Really, you poors don't have a black light in the gun safe already to charge your biden approved green initiative hybrid optics?

You haven't been thinking in the year 2025.

May have spoken too soon.  Just noticed it s a 2020 story....

https://www.recoilweb.com/prototype-holosun-red-dot-teased-new-gen-2-models-at-shot-157096.html

Prototype Holosun Red Dot Teased & New Gen 2 Models At SHOT
Patrick Roberts
January 23, 2020


While most eyes were on the new Gen 2 models of Holosun red dots, we caught a glimpse of aHolosun prototype red dot quietly dropped on the floor by Holosun to gauge reactions to the concept.

The not yet named proof of concept isn't just interesting in that it is designed for MOS style pistols and no longer uses an adapter plate, but also because the dot is solar power only. No batteries to change here.

Interestingly, Holosun like took some inspiration from the Noblex-Docter sight that replaces the MOS cover plate with the optic. This dispenses with the adapter plate so you only have to worry about ensuring that one set of screws are tight rather than worrying that the unreachable screws that normally hide under the optic. A loss of zero as a result of a loose MOS plate could be a thing of the past if Holosun runs with the idea.

While not a new concept, stretching the electronics out over the entire MOS slot allowed them to keep the overall size of the dot to a minimum allowing for the use of standard height sights rather that suppressor height sights.

Remember how we said it was solar only? A Holosun rep told us that the dot would run for 2,000 hours on a 6 to 8-hour charge.

The two models of the prototype Holosun floating about the show were the all too obvious Glock MOS pattern and the far more elusive P10 pattern optic. Note that both variants of the prototype even have slide serration features in the housing that mate up with the slide's factory serrations.

Holosun's Updated Second Gen Models
As far as the second generation red dots, Holosun had quite the selection on display. First up is the updated HS508T that incorporates a new side load battery compartment as well as larger, easier to use controls. The second gen optic still retains the circle dot reticle that made the original so popular with those that have poor eyesight.

As was the case on the first gen, the HS507C was very close in performance with the exception of the hS508T being made of titanium and the standard model being built from more conventional aluminum.

All of the updated second-gen models use larger, easier to activate rubber buttons instead of the tiny eraser heads used on the first-gen models. Thank the lord.

Also on the firing line at Industry Day at the Range was the new slim HS507K. mounted to a Glock 48 churched up by Agency. Holosun carried the same features and controls over to the slimmer housing, you still get the three reticle options to choose from.

The dot that got us the most excitedwas the HS509T, Holosun's new enclosed emitter dot.

The new enclosed emitter dot uses a mounting system that appears to be close in design to Aimpoint's ACRO without breaking out some tools to remove the optic. There was a clamp visible on the left side of the housing that appeared to be nearly identical to the ACRO but sadly Holosun says that the HS509 will not share mounts with the ACRO and referred to it as “proprietary.”

Like the rest of the Holosun line, the HS509 uses a solar panel on the top of the housing to stretch the battery as far as possible.

Holosun also carried the new side load battery compartment over to the HS509.


You can find more information about the Holosun lineup on Holosun's website. We will be sure to bring you more information about the prototype Holosun MRDS as we find out more.

Nails are pretty rough, but I'm looking for toughness.

Dude, just use your dremel!

Without the ability to swap a battery I’m a big nope.  

No way I’m tying my red dot functionality to an onboard battery.  

It seems like a marketing gimmick.

Sounds rather... efficient.

It's not brandishing, it is environmentally friendly recharging

If that’s what they did on the prototype I’d be very surprised if the production version wasn’t very similar

A very small umbrella.

How does the quoted apply? Of the many exclusively holosun offered features, what have they stolen? If only American companies made MRDS worth buying. They don’t.  Enclosed is better.  

Having LED’s reflect off glass? Did trijicon steal from aimpoint too?

Edit:  I read other replies you’ve given to TheOtherDave, and I get where you’re coming from.  I’m not going to but a Pinto just because ford makes it.  I’ll buy the Corolla, and hopefully ford starts to innovate before they become too big to fail.

You can still safely use this while retaining your virtue and sacred honor then. It goes on your pistol.

That's why you leave it on dash in your car.

So is it Patriotic to buy Holosun?

I am confused.

Aaron Cowan has had one for a year:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CY19U8qvndh/

He approves

Yeah, Holosun is really eating Trijicon's lunch with their LPVO line.

Wrong

No!

They do work well with nods though. Suck in all other situations except shooting in full sunlight.

I like it and I tend to be a Trijicon guy.

Arfcom loves to gnob gobble the CCP when it comes to gun stuff. If China ever makes ARs cheaper than PSA this place would jump for joy.

It won't, but 90% of GD doesn't actually shoot their guns so it won't matter.

That would be an even better power source than fucking tritium, dude.