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OFFICIAL Russo-Ukrainian War (Page 1955 of 5591)
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Link Posted: 5/15/2022 10:23:16 PM EDT
[#1]
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Originally Posted By PurpleOtter:
So there will be an official issued Security Blanket SB-1, one each.
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It will be called the Low Infared Netting Ultra Strength aka the LINUS aka the Cope Blanket
Link Posted: 5/15/2022 10:23:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Star_Scream] [#2]
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Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck:

My takeaway was that this "small government Conservative" thinks the FedGov should be spending billions on producing formula because the private sector isn't meeting demand. Sounds like your typical Big R Republican to me...

If she cared so much about the formula shortage, she'd be sponsoring a bill to fast track the FDA reopening the plant it shuttered instead of crying about Ukraine.
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Look at GD, someone makes a comment and the responses are a various combinations of buzzwords and whataboutisms. She knows her base and works it well.

If she spent as much time writing bills that have a prayer of a chance to get heard as she does making videos, being a meme or going on right-wing media she'd get something done. For now she's focused on fundraising and soundbites
Link Posted: 5/15/2022 10:33:33 PM EDT
[#3]
Kadyrov.  

The Administration of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan was ready to evacuate the Nazis of the Azov Regiment trapped in the cellars of Azostal.
With all due respect to the leader of the Musumal state, I would like to remind you that the Azov regiment is a fascist-Nazi criminal armed formation that is involved in numerous atrocities and murders of the civilian population of Donbass.

In the cellars of "Azovstal" these fascist criminals keep civilians, using them as human shields.
Members of this bandit organization are known in Ukraine and abroad for their regular statements insulting the great Islamic values ​​and ridiculing the religion of Islam in general.

If the Muslims of Russia were saddened by the news that Turkey, a Muslim country, helped Ukraine with the supply of Bayraktar drones, then imagine how sharply they perceived the message that Turkey was ready to evacuate ardent opponents and detractors of Islam?

I appeal to Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan: the people of Azov are murderers and atheists, whom they now want to present to you as innocent victims of Russian aggression. Do not let yourself be deceived by criminals who want to avoid trial and well-deserved punishment with your help.

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Link Posted: 5/15/2022 10:40:34 PM EDT
[#4]
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Originally Posted By iggy1337:


Nice! Doesn't sound like a orderly abandon ship was on the cards.

Also interesting that they are hailing a tugboat
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Sounds fake, or at least the Klaxon horn.  It doesn't have the same distortion as the person talking.  Plus it sounds like one from an US diesel sub.
Link Posted: 5/15/2022 10:48:35 PM EDT
[#5]
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Originally Posted By Star_Scream:



Look at GD, someone makes a comment and the responses are a various combinations of buzzwords and whataboutisms. She knows her base and works it well.

If she spent as much time writing bills that have a prayer of a chance to get heard as she does making videos, being a meme or going on right-wing media she'd get something done. For now she's focused on fundraising and soundbites
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Originally Posted By Star_Scream:
Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck:

My takeaway was that this "small government Conservative" thinks the FedGov should be spending billions on producing formula because the private sector isn't meeting demand. Sounds like your typical Big R Republican to me...

If she cared so much about the formula shortage, she'd be sponsoring a bill to fast track the FDA reopening the plant it shuttered instead of crying about Ukraine.



Look at GD, someone makes a comment and the responses are a various combinations of buzzwords and whataboutisms. She knows her base and works it well.

If she spent as much time writing bills that have a prayer of a chance to get heard as she does making videos, being a meme or going on right-wing media she'd get something done. For now she's focused on fundraising and soundbites

It's been said by others but, the 4channing of ARFCOM.

Guess we've gotten a sneak peek of what that entails with Buffalo.
Link Posted: 5/15/2022 10:50:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Hesperus] [#6]
The first story on 60 Minutes tonight was about these guys.

https://www.bellingcat.com/about/

Using social media to document war crimes in Ukraine and uncovering Putin's assassination squads. Rather dangerous sounding work.
Link Posted: 5/15/2022 10:51:30 PM EDT
[#7]
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Originally Posted By AlaskaJohn:

I respectfully disagree, I believe they are using high threat tactics and striking a specific target after the pull-up and turn. They aren't going to waste munitions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX73JWZj2aE
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I'm no fighter ace but this is a totally different tactic. The Russians are not "popping up" and engaging any target. They never see the target but are lobbing their unguided rockets in the general direction of the enemy.

This is the equivalent to infantry using their automatic grenade launcher for indirect fire. They have no idea where the rounds will hit, they do not see the target, but are hoping to get lucky.

Infantry analog is holding your rifle above your head, hopefully out of the foxhole and emptying a mag towards the enemy.

Link Posted: 5/15/2022 10:56:19 PM EDT
[#8]
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Originally Posted By AlaskaJohn:

I respectfully disagree, I believe they are using high threat tactics and striking a specific target after the pull-up and turn. They aren't going to waste munitions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX73JWZj2aE
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Originally Posted By AlaskaJohn:
Originally Posted By Croak:


They're lobbing those rockets in and then banking away, and as they bank they have turn their hot engines towards any seeker heads the bad guys may have pointed at them, so popping flares gives them cover as they get back down on the deck.

That rocket lob technique is of of questionable effectiveness, turning the direct fire rockets into ballistic weapons, but it does give them a lot more stand off range and less exposure to ground fire and MANPADS.  First saw this used by Russian helicopters earlier in the conflict.  Probably better for morale than anything, grunts like knowing they have CAS.  Also makes for nice photo ops.

I respectfully disagree, I believe they are using high threat tactics and striking a specific target after the pull-up and turn. They aren't going to waste munitions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX73JWZj2aE


Ugh. One of the things I did a long time ago was develop the algorithms for an automated offset pop-up weapon delivery maneuver. Suffice to say determining the specific roll angle required to match the time in the mostly-inverted pull-down and the heading change was a royal PITA. It was kinda fun watching the algo work splendidly the first time, though. I was never able to beat the accuracy of the algo flying the sim manually. Neither was anybody else.
Link Posted: 5/15/2022 11:05:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlaskaJohn] [#9]
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

I'm no fighter ace but this is a totally different tactic. The Russians are not "popping up" and engaging any target. They never see the target but are lobbing their unguided rockets in the general direction of the enemy.

This is the equivalent to infantry using their automatic grenade launcher for indirect fire. They have no idea where the rounds will hit, they do not see the target, but are hoping to get lucky.

Infantry analog is holding your rifle above your head, hopefully out of the foxhole and emptying a mag towards the enemy.

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They were Ukranian SU-25s.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/uqa239/two_ukrainian_su25_attackers_launching_rockets_at/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

eta: After further review, it does appear they are lofting the rockets. I am a bit disappointed.
Link Posted: 5/15/2022 11:07:48 PM EDT
[#10]
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Originally Posted By stone-age:


Again?
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Originally Posted By stone-age:
Originally Posted By sq40:
https://www.newsmax.com/world/globaltalk/ukraine-kyrylo-budanov-vladimir-putin-russia/2022/05/14/id/1069864/

Ukraine Military Intelligence Chief: Coup Against Putin Underway

A coup to remove Russian President Vladimir Putin is underway and it is "impossible to stop it," according to Ukrainian Major Gen. Kyrylo Budanov, the country's military intelligence chief.

The defeat of Russia in Ukraine, Budanov explained to Sky News in an exclusive interview, will not only lead to Putin being removed, but also to disintegration.

"It will eventually lead to the change of leadership of the Russian Federation," Budanov said. "This process has already been launched, and they are moving into that way."


And when the interviewer pressed if that means a coup of Putin is underway, Budanov replied: "Yes. They are moving in this way, and it is impossible to stop it."

He also told the interviewer, Putin is in a "very bad psychological and physical condition, and he is very sick," as he reportedly has cancer and other illnesses.

Budanov rejected suggestions he is spreading propaganda with such claims about Putin.

"It's my job; it's my work," he told Sky News. "If not me, who will know this?"


Again?

I don’t think he means “there is a coup happening at this moment.”  Based on the interview I read it as “The process of moving against Putin/finding his replacement” is underway.
Link Posted: 5/15/2022 11:10:01 PM EDT
[#11]
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Originally Posted By 74HC:

Sounds fake, or at least the Klaxon horn.  It doesn't have the same distortion as the person talking.  Plus it sounds like one from an US diesel sub.
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Originally Posted By 74HC:
Originally Posted By iggy1337:


Nice! Doesn't sound like a orderly abandon ship was on the cards.

Also interesting that they are hailing a tugboat

Sounds fake, or at least the Klaxon horn.  It doesn't have the same distortion as the person talking.  Plus it sounds like one from an US diesel sub.

Agreed.  I’m skeptical to say the least.
Link Posted: 5/15/2022 11:13:11 PM EDT
[#12]
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Originally Posted By Javak:
Instead of joining NATO, maybe nations from Finland down to Poland and Ukraine should form their own mutual defense block.
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Which would do absolutely zero good.

Both are regional powers.
Link Posted: 5/15/2022 11:13:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Croak] [#13]
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Originally Posted By AlaskaJohn:

I respectfully disagree, I believe they are using high threat tactics and striking a specific target after the pull-up and turn. They aren't going to waste munitions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX73JWZj2aE
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Originally Posted By AlaskaJohn:
Originally Posted By Croak:


They're lobbing those rockets in and then banking away, and as they bank they have turn their hot engines towards any seeker heads the bad guys may have pointed at them, so popping flares gives them cover as they get back down on the deck.

That rocket lob technique is of of questionable effectiveness, turning the direct fire rockets into ballistic weapons, but it does give them a lot more stand off range and less exposure to ground fire and MANPADS.  First saw this used by Russian helicopters earlier in the conflict.  Probably better for morale than anything, grunts like knowing they have CAS.  Also makes for nice photo ops.

I respectfully disagree, I believe they are using high threat tactics and striking a specific target after the pull-up and turn. They aren't going to waste munitions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX73JWZj2aE


That isn't what they were doing.  Those were not fairly heavy gravity bombs where most of the weight is the explosive and that have a nice clean parabola that can be calculated, they were small warhead direct fire rockets that are going to burn out at varying rates and therefore hit all over the place when they come down ballistically.  They're really not meant to be launched that way.  

What you saw in that video were either 57mm S-5 or 80mm S-8 rockets, if the former max warhead weight is about 2 kilos, if the latter, about 4kg...about a hundred times smaller than most bombs (and about 5-10 times less payload than a 155mm arty round), but they do pack 20 in a pod (doesn't look like 20 got off in that video though).  Might have about 5km range fired ballistically, with a huge CEP.

Even with 20 rockets, that's still not much of a boom for blind area bombardment considering the platform risk.  They rely on being fairly accurate in direct fire pointed at a target or target area before firing for maximum effect.  But like I said, lobbing them is a way to avoid ground fire and still lay some hate on the orcs, and the friendly troops love seeing it.
Link Posted: 5/15/2022 11:17:36 PM EDT
[#14]
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Originally Posted By Firefly1032:


If true, it's a decent indicator that UA isn't planning an attempted counterattack or or supporting push anytime soon. Hopefully they are able to hold Severodonetsk or are smart enough to avoid another Mariupol and withdraw if needed.
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Just not there.  There are other places.
Link Posted: 5/15/2022 11:35:49 PM EDT
[#15]
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Originally Posted By Capta:

Ukraine is suffering losses, but appear to be achieving a 3:1 loss ratio.  Ukraine has the manpower and certainly appears to have the will to continue the war at any cost.  They’re expanding the army to 1,000,000 men.  Even if Russia fully mobilized they can’t outnumber the Ukrainians *in Ukraine*.  Russia also can’t really equip such a force and can’t remotely supply them outside its borders.
Russia’s situation is already precarious.  Encirclement of Ukraine’s army in the east was Plan B, and with the UA victory in Kharkiv that is fast going into the shitter along with Plan A.  Russia was counting on Ukraine to fight a static defense where they could be cut off in numbers, and that isn’t happening.  Now the UA is poised to interdict and possibly cut off the supply lines for 20 BTGs, something like 20% of Russia’s force in Ukraine.
Plan C is probably to dig in and run the Ukrainian’s playbook in reverse - bleed the UA, kill as many civilians as possible but squeal that the UA is committing genocide against Russian speakers they are “protecting,” and continue to flog their nuclear cock.  Short of some kind of bonkers plan with Transnistria/Moldova/Odessa, that’s their only option until Putin is overthrown, or nukes fly.
Ukraine has options and doesn’t need to do an elbow-to-elbow offensive at this stage.  Right now the play is limited counter-offensives to cut off over-extended Russian BTGs and defeat them in detail in the east.  At the same time they are trading modest ground across a broad front for time and Russian KIAs.  Next, I suspect they will deal with Kherson and after that Crimea.  Crimea (particularly Sevastopol) is the real strategic prize that Russia MUST have.  Donbas is optional for Russia.  Take Kherson, drive down the west coast of Crimea and arty the living shit out of Sevastopol.  Go for the throat in Crimea and avoid the slog in the east.  Then you’ll see the Russians ready to deal.
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That hits the nail on the head.
Link Posted: 5/15/2022 11:37:12 PM EDT
[#16]
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Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:



Now I see, thanks!

https://i.insider.com/624ed08e1096d50018d1e011?width=1000&format=jpeg&auto=webp
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Where do they attach stuff.
Link Posted: 5/15/2022 11:39:00 PM EDT
[#17]
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Originally Posted By fadedsun:


Which would do absolutely zero good.

Both are regional powers.
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Originally Posted By fadedsun:
Originally Posted By Javak:
Instead of joining NATO, maybe nations from Finland down to Poland and Ukraine should form their own mutual defense block.


Which would do absolutely zero good.

Both are regional powers.

Main problem is nukes.  An alliance of regional non-nuclear powers is only useful against another non-nuclear power.  Otherwise some shithead is going to say, “I get to invade you and rape, murder, and steal my way through your country.  If you invade me I’ll nuke you.  If you dare to resist me and kick my ass, I’ll nuke you.”
That’s why NATO ultimately rests on the US nuclear deterrent.
Link Posted: 5/15/2022 11:43:00 PM EDT
[#18]
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Originally Posted By Capta:

Main problem is nukes.  An alliance of regional non-nuclear powers is only useful against another non-nuclear power.  Otherwise some shithead is going to say, “I get to invade you and rape, murder, and steal my way through your country.  If you invade me I’ll nuke you.  If you dare to resist me and kick my ass, I’ll nuke you.”
That’s why NATO ultimately rests on the US nuclear deterrent.
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Well, and the UK and France, too, to a lesser extent.
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 12:00:37 AM EDT
[#19]
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Originally Posted By Circuits:

Well, and the UK and France, too, to a lesser extent.
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The discussion was on central European countries which are not nuclear powers forming an alliance.
Even France and the UK only have nuclear forces sufficient to deter an attack on themselves.  If Russia could be assured of the US sitting it out, I believe they would take the bloody nose to wipe the UK and France out and conquer Europe.
MAD is a thing, and if an aggressive (but sane) actor calculates that they can benefit from an exchange then nukes are not a deterrent.
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 12:00:38 AM EDT
[#20]
The last one needs to be changed to a Ukrainian tank


Link Posted: 5/16/2022 12:01:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Capta] [#21]
Double post
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 12:06:10 AM EDT
[#22]
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Originally Posted By polishkebasa:


Quite the optic setup on the ar.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/454522/IMG_20220515_091901_jpg-2384589.JPG
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Both are also rocking Glock Field Knives; they seem to be the most common field knife in the conflict.
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 12:07:23 AM EDT
[#23]
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Originally Posted By Prime:
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The fact that Kadyrov said this makes it even more laughable and retarded.
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 12:17:28 AM EDT
[#24]
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Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:


Both are also rocking Glock Field Knives; they seem to be the most common field knife in the conflict.
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Which is sad as they kinda suck
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 12:17:55 AM EDT
[#25]
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Originally Posted By Capta:

The discussion was on central European countries which are not nuclear powers forming an alliance.
Even France and the UK only have nuclear forces sufficient to deter an attack on themselves.  If Russia could be assured of the US sitting it out, I believe they would take the bloody nose to wipe the UK and France out and conquer Europe.
MAD is a thing, and if an aggressive (but sane) actor calculates that they can benefit from an exchange then nukes are not a deterrent.
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Originally Posted By Capta:
Originally Posted By Circuits:

Well, and the UK and France, too, to a lesser extent.

The discussion was on central European countries which are not nuclear powers forming an alliance.
Even France and the UK only have nuclear forces sufficient to deter an attack on themselves.  If Russia could be assured of the US sitting it out, I believe they would take the bloody nose to wipe the UK and France out and conquer Europe.
MAD is a thing, and if an aggressive (but sane) actor calculates that they can benefit from an exchange then nukes are not a deterrent.


"Bloody Nose"

You're talking about ~350  one+ megatonish sized explosions. Largely from things that will only allow about 15 minutes warning.
A guy could bleed to death with that nose
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 12:24:45 AM EDT
[#26]
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Originally Posted By AlaskaJohn:
They were Ukranian SU-25s.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/uqa239/two_ukrainian_su25_attackers_launching_rockets_at/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

eta: After further review, it does appear they are lofting the rockets. I am a bit disappointed.
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Originally Posted By AlaskaJohn:
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

I'm no fighter ace but this is a totally different tactic. The Russians are not "popping up" and engaging any target. They never see the target but are lobbing their unguided rockets in the general direction of the enemy.

This is the equivalent to infantry using their automatic grenade launcher for indirect fire. They have no idea where the rounds will hit, they do not see the target, but are hoping to get lucky.

Infantry analog is holding your rifle above your head, hopefully out of the foxhole and emptying a mag towards the enemy.

They were Ukranian SU-25s.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/uqa239/two_ukrainian_su25_attackers_launching_rockets_at/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

eta: After further review, it does appear they are lofting the rockets. I am a bit disappointed.

Seems like a waste of vital airpower. And a waste of semi hard to get rockets
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 12:43:30 AM EDT
[#27]
Russian TG channels.


"I want to tell about my grief so that people know the truth. My husband, a simple worker. Sent on March 14 to the distributor of the military unit 08805 in Makeevka. On March 27 he was sent to Mariupol. On March 28, he wrote an SMS early in the morning, saying that he is the 3rd line of defense. Since then, silence ... For a whole month I was looking for my husband, hoping that he was alive, that there was simply no connection. Military unit 08805 lied to me on the phone. Yes, and when they arrived they were not allowed into the unit. They did not report where he serves. At the end of April, they said that he was not here, that he was in the direction of Kherson. And when I myself found my husband in the morgue of Mariupol, I informed the unit that he had died. But he was not listed as dead on their lists and wounded. The unit of me asked - WHERE HE SERVED???? Me, who was looking for him and tried to find out in the unit. According to the stories of colleagues, it was not possible to pick him up from the place of death, since there were battles. How long did my husband lie there - unknown. Part does not keep records of the dead, wounded and missing. Do not tell the truth to relatives, so that there are no panic. Our family itself was looking for its own, calling the morgues of Mariupol, Mangush. Found it at the end of April. April 21 was the act of opening it. But no one considered it necessary to inform his relatives that he was lying there. As the workers of the morgue said - THIS IS NOT IN THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES. Our relatives lie in sacks under fences in Kalinin, Makiivka, and so on. for 1-2 months and NOBODY tells them about it. Poor mothers, wives, children must examine all the corpses that are in the morgues and look for their relatives themselves. Why do we women of Donbass have to endure this!? For 8 years they killed us, worked for a penny like slaves, and now they have destroyed our men!!! There is a purposeful destruction of the male population of Donbass. I was found by his guys, who respected my husband, became friends, but they were lucky - they remained alive. They reported that on March 27, half an hour after their arrival in Mariupol, they immediately entered the battle. Our husbands, sons, without military experience, without protective equipment, were simply thrown into battle right away !!! What is the 3rd line of defense???? On March 31, my husband died and many men were with him too. Men are gradually being taken out of there. They throw our inexperienced, unprotected husbands straight into battle. They call them "mushrooms". They only have helmets. And they are mowed down like mushrooms. With the help of our inexperienced guys, enemy firing points are revealed. Now, in addition to hatred for Ukraine, hatred for the DPR and Russia has been added for using our relatives as targets. How many volunteers are there who want to fight!!! Why was it necessary to mobilize ordinary hard workers and purposefully and thoughtlessly send them to death?!!!"

These are all, not isolated cases, a lot of people write, unfortunately I can’t publish all the stories.
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 12:44:27 AM EDT
[#28]
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Originally Posted By Capta:

The discussion was on central European countries which are not nuclear powers forming an alliance.
Even France and the UK only have nuclear forces sufficient to deter an attack on themselves.  If Russia could be assured of the US sitting it out, I believe they would take the bloody nose to wipe the UK and France out and conquer Europe.
MAD is a thing, and if an aggressive (but sane) actor calculates that they can benefit from an exchange then nukes are not a deterrent.
View Quote

Deterrence levels aside, and I do have opinions on the matter at odds with your own, I think Russia's saber-rattling and Iran's ongoing nuclear ambitions are about to lead the world to a whole host of nuclear proliferation, with nations like Ukraine, and some others, joining the nuclear club.  There's about a dozen countries that have existing nuclear infrastructure and scientific, technological and industrial expertise sufficient to go nuclear, even if only in a rudimentary sense, in a year or less.
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 12:59:25 AM EDT
[#29]
The Charge of the Light Brigade
By Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
  Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!" he said.
Into the valley of Death
  Rode the six hundred.

"Forward, the Light Brigade!"
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
  Someone had blundered.
  Theirs not to make reply,
  Theirs not to reason why,
  Theirs but to do and die.
  Into the valley of Death
  Rode the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
  Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
  Rode the six hundred.

Flashed all their sabres bare,
Flashed as they turned in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
  All the world wondered.
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right through the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reeled from the sabre stroke
  Shattered and sundered.
Then they rode back, but not
  Not the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
  Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell.
They that had fought so well
Came through the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of hell,
All that was left of them,
  Left of six hundred.

When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
  All the world wondered.
Honour the charge they made!
Honour the Light Brigade,
  Noble six hundred!
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 1:22:04 AM EDT
[#30]
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Originally Posted By Circuits:

Deterrence levels aside, and I do have opinions on the matter at odds with your own, I think Russia's saber-rattling and Iran's ongoing nuclear ambitions are about to lead the world to a whole host of nuclear proliferation, with nations like Ukraine, and some others, joining the nuclear club.  There's about a dozen countries that have existing nuclear infrastructure and scientific, technological and industrial expertise sufficient to go nuclear, even if only in a rudimentary sense, in a year or less.
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I totally agree.  Nations at risk will have to arm up with nukes.  They simply cannot trust Russia and China and cannot expect nuclear deterrence from the US forever.  Ukraine and Poland have to and absolutely will.  The Baltics should but don’t have the resources.  Germany should but they may be too socially compromised.  South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and Australia/New Zealand have to and probably will.
This will make nuclear war inevitable in the medium to long term even if we avoid it this time.  Thanks again Putin, you fuck.
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 1:26:31 AM EDT
[#31]
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Originally Posted By Capta:

I totally agree.  Nations at risk will have to arm up with nukes.  They simply cannot trust Russia and China and cannot expect nuclear deterrence from the US forever.  Ukraine and Poland have to and absolutely will.  The Baltics should but don’t have the resources.  Germany should but they may be too socially compromised.  South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and Australia/New Zealand have to and probably will.
This will make nuclear war inevitable in the medium to long term even if we avoid it this time.  Thanks again Putin, you fuck.
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Originally Posted By Capta:
Originally Posted By Circuits:

Deterrence levels aside, and I do have opinions on the matter at odds with your own, I think Russia's saber-rattling and Iran's ongoing nuclear ambitions are about to lead the world to a whole host of nuclear proliferation, with nations like Ukraine, and some others, joining the nuclear club.  There's about a dozen countries that have existing nuclear infrastructure and scientific, technological and industrial expertise sufficient to go nuclear, even if only in a rudimentary sense, in a year or less.

I totally agree.  Nations at risk will have to arm up with nukes.  They simply cannot trust Russia and China and cannot expect nuclear deterrence from the US forever.  Ukraine and Poland have to and absolutely will.  The Baltics should but don’t have the resources.  Germany should but they may be too socially compromised.  South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and Australia/New Zealand have to and probably will.
This will make nuclear war inevitable in the medium to long term even if we avoid it this time.  Thanks again Putin, you fuck.


Any half-intelligent tyrant should have been looking for nukes for decades.  Realistically, they're the ultimate insurance policy.  Does anyone think we would have invaded Iraq if Saddam actually had a half-dozen nuclear SCUDs?
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 1:31:41 AM EDT
[#32]
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Originally Posted By Krater:

Russian TG channels.


"I want to tell about my grief so that people know the truth. My husband, a simple worker. Sent on March 14 to the distributor of the military unit 08805 in Makeevka. On March 27 he was sent to Mariupol. On March 28, he wrote an SMS early in the morning, saying that he is the 3rd line of defense. Since then, silence ... For a whole month I was looking for my husband, hoping that he was alive, that there was simply no connection. Military unit 08805 lied to me on the phone. Yes, and when they arrived they were not allowed into the unit. They did not report where he serves. At the end of April, they said that he was not here, that he was in the direction of Kherson. And when I myself found my husband in the morgue of Mariupol, I informed the unit that he had died. But he was not listed as dead on their lists and wounded. The unit of me asked - WHERE HE SERVED???? Me, who was looking for him and tried to find out in the unit. According to the stories of colleagues, it was not possible to pick him up from the place of death, since there were battles. How long did my husband lie there - unknown. Part does not keep records of the dead, wounded and missing. Do not tell the truth to relatives, so that there are no panic. Our family itself was looking for its own, calling the morgues of Mariupol, Mangush. Found it at the end of April. April 21 was the act of opening it. But no one considered it necessary to inform his relatives that he was lying there. As the workers of the morgue said - THIS IS NOT IN THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES. Our relatives lie in sacks under fences in Kalinin, Makiivka, and so on. for 1-2 months and NOBODY tells them about it. Poor mothers, wives, children must examine all the corpses that are in the morgues and look for their relatives themselves. Why do we women of Donbass have to endure this!? For 8 years they killed us, worked for a penny like slaves, and now they have destroyed our men!!! There is a purposeful destruction of the male population of Donbass. I was found by his guys, who respected my husband, became friends, but they were lucky - they remained alive. They reported that on March 27, half an hour after their arrival in Mariupol, they immediately entered the battle. Our husbands, sons, without military experience, without protective equipment, were simply thrown into battle right away !!! What is the 3rd line of defense???? On March 31, my husband died and many men were with him too. Men are gradually being taken out of there. They throw our inexperienced, unprotected husbands straight into battle. They call them "mushrooms". They only have helmets. And they are mowed down like mushrooms. With the help of our inexperienced guys, enemy firing points are revealed. Now, in addition to hatred for Ukraine, hatred for the DPR and Russia has been added for using our relatives as targets. How many volunteers are there who want to fight!!! Why was it necessary to mobilize ordinary hard workers and purposefully and thoughtlessly send them to death?!!!"

These are all, not isolated cases, a lot of people write, unfortunately I can’t publish all the stories.
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If things were going differently, would this woman lament the Ukrainian men, women and children killed by her husband and people like him?  You have sown the wind and you are reaping the whirlwind.
At least now you know whom you serve and that you mean NOTHING to them.
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 1:34:15 AM EDT
[#33]
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Originally Posted By Capta:

If things were going differently, would this woman lament the Ukrainian men, women and children killed by her husband and people like him?  You have sown the wind and you are reaping the whirlwind.
At least now you know whom you serve and that you mean NOTHING to them.
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Of course not, she wouldn't give a damn.  She is just upset because her man was used exactly as Russian government sees him - cannon fodder.
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 1:34:45 AM EDT
[#34]
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Originally Posted By Phocks:


Any half-intelligent tyrant should have been looking for nukes for decades.  Realistically, they're the ultimate insurance policy.  Does anyone think we would have invaded Iraq if Saddam actually had a half-dozen nuclear SCUDs?
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A good argument can be made that Iran’s nuclear ambition is a direct result of our adventurism in the Middle East, and to that extent we have only ourselves to blame.
There is the question of capability and resources, not to mention Israel, who bombed the Iraqi reactor well before we were there.
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 1:46:55 AM EDT
[#35]
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Originally Posted By Capta:
A good argument can be made that Iran’s nuclear ambition is a direct result of our adventurism in the Middle East, and to that extent we have only ourselves to blame.
There is the question of capability and resources, not to mention Israel, who bombed the Iraqi reactor well before we were there.
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Iran intends to go nuclear and thinks no one will ever dare fuck with them again.

Israel has repeatedly stated they will not allow that to occur, and I've never heard of the Izzies bluffing on an issue like that.

Before this decade is ended, someone or perhaps several someones, will have fucked around, and we'll all find out.
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 1:52:01 AM EDT
[#36]
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Originally Posted By Krater:


Of course not, she wouldn't give a damn.  She is just upset because her man was used exactly as Russian government sees him - cannon fodder.
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I am sorry for people like her and her husband and still do not hate them.  The little guy is getting fucked like always.  Regardless, they serve evil men with evil aims and real change will only come at horrific cost.
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 1:54:11 AM EDT
[#37]
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Originally Posted By Krater:


Of course not, she wouldn't give a damn.  She is just upset because her man was used exactly as Russian government sees him - cannon fodder.
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Originally Posted By Krater:
Originally Posted By Capta:

If things were going differently, would this woman lament the Ukrainian men, women and children killed by her husband and people like him?  You have sown the wind and you are reaping the whirlwind.
At least now you know whom you serve and that you mean NOTHING to them.


Of course not, she wouldn't give a damn.  She is just upset because her man was used exactly as Russian government sees him - cannon fodder.



I'll say it again, though nobody really cares- there are a lot of Russians who absolutely do give a damn.
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 1:57:00 AM EDT
[#38]
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Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:



I'll say it again, though nobody really cares- there are a lot of Russians who absolutely do give a damn.
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A lot in absolute numbers, perhaps. In terms of percentages...I'd cap it at about 20% overall, maybe 30% in younger people.
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 2:02:05 AM EDT
[#39]
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Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:


Both are also rocking Glock Field Knives; they seem to be the most common field knife in the conflict.
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Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:
Originally Posted By polishkebasa:


Quite the optic setup on the ar.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/454522/IMG_20220515_091901_jpg-2384589.JPG


Both are also rocking Glock Field Knives; they seem to be the most common field knife in the conflict.
x39 AR? Mag looks much more curved.
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 2:11:09 AM EDT
[#40]
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Originally Posted By 74HC:

Sounds fake, or at least the Klaxon horn.  It doesn't have the same distortion as the person talking.  Plus it sounds like one from an US diesel sub.
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Re: reputed Moskva radio comms.

Agreed. Don't know about what a klaxon on a Rooskie CG would sound like. But the recording sounds like two tracks laid down and not one recording via a microphone.  Mainly to me, that monologue sounds like it was made by a paying passenger on a cruise ship and not by anyone who's going to actually get near a radio and broadcast from onboard a warship of any bluewater navy. Too ignorant of basic, descriptive naval terminology and vague. Also, from photo evidence we've seen and expert commentary, the two missile strikes were both ABOVE the waterline after the ship had listed and lost six or eight feet of freeboard aft, not below as the speaker says.  Possibly something doctored up to monetize youtube hits or something.

Link Posted: 5/16/2022 2:32:04 AM EDT
[#41]
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Originally Posted By THOT_Vaccine:


"Bloody Nose"

You're talking about ~350  one+ megatonish sized explosions. Largely from things that will only allow about 15 minutes warning.
A guy could bleed to death with that nose
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Russia and the USSR before them never understood nuclear war to be “unthinkable.”  They planned for and expended the resources to limit their casualties and preserve productive capacity.  During the cold war, the USSR would have accepted 80% casualties to “win” an all-out nuclear war with the US.  Only overwhelming MAD prevented them from testing that philosophy.  Unfortunately, 200-400 total warheads will not fulfill the requirements of MAD.  All of them are sub-based, and typically 1/3 to 2/3 of that arsenal is in port at any given time.  Now we’re down to 130-264 at most.  Of those maybe 20% will fail.  Now we’re down to 104-211.
If they could be guaranteed of the US sitting it out, Russia would try to split the nuclear NATO nations from the rest and from each other in order to achieve their aims in Europe.  Faced with total destruction, it is very likely that France and possibly Britain would forge a separate peace with Russia.  If only Britain opposed them, that’s 180 warheads, only 100 of which will hit targets.  An unknown number of those would be neutralized by Russia’s ABM defenses.  If Russia could achieve those conditions, and given the current power structure in Russia, I believe they would launch tomorrow and accept the damage while holding the rest of the world hostage.  You’re free to disagree.
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 3:21:43 AM EDT
[#42]
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Originally Posted By Capta:

Russia and the USSR before them never understood nuclear war to be “unthinkable.”  They planned for and expended the resources to limit their casualties and preserve productive capacity.  During the cold war, the USSR would have accepted 80% casualties to “win” an all-out nuclear war with the US.  Only overwhelming MAD prevented them from testing that philosophy.  Unfortunately, 200-400 total warheads will not fulfill the requirements of MAD.  All of them are sub-based, and typically 1/3 to 2/3 of that arsenal is in port at any given time.  Now we’re down to 130-264 at most.  Of those maybe 20% will fail.  Now we’re down to 104-211.
If they could be guaranteed of the US sitting it out, Russia would try to split the nuclear NATO nations from the rest and from each other in order to achieve their aims in Europe.  Faced with total destruction, it is very likely that France and possibly Britain would forge a separate peace with Russia.  If only Britain opposed them, that’s 180 warheads, only 100 of which will hit targets.  An unknown number of those would be neutralized by Russia’s ABM defenses.  If Russia could achieve those conditions, and given the current power structure in Russia, I believe they would launch tomorrow and accept the damage while holding the rest of the world hostage.  You’re free to disagree.
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Originally Posted By Capta:
Originally Posted By THOT_Vaccine:


"Bloody Nose"

You're talking about ~350  one+ megatonish sized explosions. Largely from things that will only allow about 15 minutes warning.
A guy could bleed to death with that nose

Russia and the USSR before them never understood nuclear war to be “unthinkable.”  They planned for and expended the resources to limit their casualties and preserve productive capacity.  During the cold war, the USSR would have accepted 80% casualties to “win” an all-out nuclear war with the US.  Only overwhelming MAD prevented them from testing that philosophy.  Unfortunately, 200-400 total warheads will not fulfill the requirements of MAD.  All of them are sub-based, and typically 1/3 to 2/3 of that arsenal is in port at any given time.  Now we’re down to 130-264 at most.  Of those maybe 20% will fail.  Now we’re down to 104-211.
If they could be guaranteed of the US sitting it out, Russia would try to split the nuclear NATO nations from the rest and from each other in order to achieve their aims in Europe.  Faced with total destruction, it is very likely that France and possibly Britain would forge a separate peace with Russia.  If only Britain opposed them, that’s 180 warheads, only 100 of which will hit targets.  An unknown number of those would be neutralized by Russia’s ABM defenses.  If Russia could achieve those conditions, and given the current power structure in Russia, I believe they would launch tomorrow and accept the damage while holding the rest of the world hostage.  You’re free to disagree.


The U.S. has never considered nuclear war "unthinkable".
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 3:38:21 AM EDT
[#43]
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Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:



I'll say it again, though nobody really cares- there are a lot of Russians who absolutely do give a damn.
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I care. *said in my best Luke Skywalker voice.*
That said, my college major was Russian and Eastern European studies, so I know that going back hundreds of years Russia has always taken the path of authoritarianism.  Always.  What’s going on now is totally unsurprising to me.
A large and vocal majority (centered on the over 40s) are all for genocide against Ukraine.  There is no other way to put that.  What criticism does appear in the public space is that Russia’s performance isn’t matching Russian jingoists’ expectations - i.e. Russia’s lack of success thus far in committing genocide.  No one is complaining that Ukrainian children are being blown to pieces, except to comment on how evil the Ukrainian Nazis are to blow their own children to pieces so they can blame it on Russia.  It’s insane and I cannot even describe my contempt for these people.  NO ONE is so fucking stupid that they don’t know what is really going on.
A significant percentage of younger Russians (under 40) harbor genuine, and even strong opposition to the war. However, these people aren’t making policy and are doing little if anything AFAIK to affect Russia’s public discourse.  I feel sorry for good people caught in a bad situation, but if all those under 40s who opposed the war took to the streets and to social media, they couldn’t arrest everyone and send them to Siberia.  Putin’s government would fall in a week.  But (outside of a tiny minority) they aren’t saying anything and they aren’t acting.  They are allowing genocide to take place in their name and they are allowing their own nation to commit suicide.  I don’t say that lightly or jingoistically.  Ukraine and the world in general are in deep shit thanks to Putin, but Russia is on the brink of destruction.  The exodus of young Russians provides some proof that the younger generation understands that their country is going to hell, but they’re taking the easy way out instead of fighting for change.
Sorry, long reply to a short statement.
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 3:44:31 AM EDT
[#44]
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Originally Posted By Anastasios:


The U.S. has never considered nuclear war "unthinkable".
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The near total lack of preparation to preserve population and industry says otherwise.
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 3:49:35 AM EDT
[#45]
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 5:29:56 AM EDT
[#46]
https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/news/2022/05/16/7139472/


The United States believes that Ukraine can "bypass" the MAP on the way to NATO, as Finland and Sweden

According to US Chargé d'Affaires Christina Quinn, Ukraine has a chance to become a member of NATO without a member of the Membership Action Plan, such as Finland and Sweden, because it is not a mandatory part of the accession process.
She said this in an interview with European Truth .
"As for the possibility of Finland's accession without a MAP, the Membership Action Plan has never been a legal requirement for NATO membership, so Ukraine can also join the Alliance without a MAP. However, I would not call it a shortened procedure," she said. .
She noted that the MAP is a mechanism that allows a Member State to meet compatibility requirements, and if a State already meets all the requirements, the Membership Action Plan becomes unnecessary.
"Therefore, neither Ukraine nor any other country should receive a Membership Action Plan and implement it if you generally meet most of the requirements," said Christina Quinn.
It should be noted that the decision of the NATO Summit in Brussels in June 2021 confirmed the decision of the Bucharest Summit in 2008 that Ukraine will become a member of the Alliance in the future through the Membership Action Plan.
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 5:36:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: iggy1337] [#47]
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 5:48:57 AM EDT
[#48]
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Originally Posted By iggy1337:



At the start of May (intent to supply was announced in April) the US stated that you were supplying Ukriane with laser guided versions of those (normaly dumb) hydra  rockets that are carried in pods.
Dunno if they would be so user friendly to be hooked up to any jet and have a ground crew laze targets.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/what-will-fire-the-laser-guided-rockets-donated-to-ukraine-is-still-a-mystery  

https://www.navair.navy.mil/product/APKWS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V092M25KeUA


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Originally Posted By iggy1337:
Originally Posted By AROKIE:
Originally Posted By AlaskaJohn:
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

I'm no fighter ace but this is a totally different tactic. The Russians are not "popping up" and engaging any target. They never see the target but are lobbing their unguided rockets in the general direction of the enemy.

This is the equivalent to infantry using their automatic grenade launcher for indirect fire. They have no idea where the rounds will hit, they do not see the target, but are hoping to get lucky.

Infantry analog is holding your rifle above your head, hopefully out of the foxhole and emptying a mag towards the enemy.

They were Ukranian SU-25s.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/uqa239/two_ukrainian_su25_attackers_launching_rockets_at/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

eta: After further review, it does appear they are lofting the rockets. I am a bit disappointed.


Seems like a waste of vital airpower. And a waste of semi hard to get rockets



At the start of May (intent to supply was announced in April) the US stated that you were supplying Ukriane with laser guided versions of those (normaly dumb) hydra  rockets that are carried in pods.
Dunno if they would be so user friendly to be hooked up to any jet and have a ground crew laze targets.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/what-will-fire-the-laser-guided-rockets-donated-to-ukraine-is-still-a-mystery  

https://www.navair.navy.mil/product/APKWS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V092M25KeUA



Often aerial designation works better,  but as  long as the designator is using the right PRF code and some geometry limitations are met, the APWKS are agnostic of the designator.
Link Posted: 5/16/2022 6:35:48 AM EDT
[#49]
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Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck:

It's been said by others but, the 4channing of ARFCOM.

Guess we've gotten a sneak peek of what that entails with Buffalo.
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Unfortunately an awful lot of people have been very,very influenced by the Internet. My SO of 12 years and I are taking a break from each other now that may very well become permanent due to how much Jordan Peterson and Gad Saad and their social media circle has shaped her world view from being conservative to having moments of sheer crazy talk. It’s a horrible thing to essentially lose someone to the internet but I can not accept “you have to at least be skeptical,Ukraine is corrupt and has faked many things” when discussing mass murder. We are a tiny nation on Russia’s border,I don’t want to hear about “they have their security concerns too”. No.

 This isn’t someone who had zero knowledge of history and geography,it’s a bright woman who latched on to the exact same talking points without thinking about them critically. It made me realize what caused this shift in her from being fairly conservative to complaining about Muslim immigration - there are next to none here - or homsexuals and such when I honestly don’t see them remotely being an issue in our society.

 My overall take is that if she can be manipulated about these things then it would be very,very easy to convince her about our country and myself. I see too many ways for this war to go sideways and involve us but more to the point when she told me that the aid I’ve personally sent to UA is just prolonging the fighting and that they need to make concessions for peace it was just too much,this isn’t something she would have said a few months ago and quite frankly I’m terrified of the day she starts to go on about Globohomo and white replacement. It’s just too upsetting that I feel I lost someone to a virtual cult and here is the thing: I can say my piece but I get told I’m  wrong because a bunch of virtual opinions say so,it’s too insulting and ridiculous.


 It makes it very easy to see how someone with little real world experience to temper things can take a bunch of shit far too literally. This is legitimately scary to me because if she can have her world view fucked by this then it it’s no wonder someone young with no real world experience can easily adopt the worst aspects of the far right rhetoric and act upon them.

Link Posted: 5/16/2022 7:12:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: iggy1337] [#50]
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