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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/11/2022 6:38:44 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DPeacher: Yup! He could have negotiated access and basing leases for Crimea and just sat back and sold shit. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DPeacher: Originally Posted By K0UA: Think about it: All Russia had to do was sell energy to western Europe, mine diamonds, gold and titanium and sell to the rest of the world, raise grain to sell. and continue to sell their crappy weapons systems to anyone that wanted them. and just rake in money and be a friendly with everyone. That is all they had to do to become rich and happy. Then came Feb. 24th, 2022 and pootey poot. just screwed up EVERYTHING. It was really that simple. Yup! He could have negotiated access and basing leases for Crimea and just sat back and sold shit. It's the nature of a kleptocracy. After they run out of hapless victims at home to defraud and thieve, they turn outward. You have to keep feeding the machine or they turn on you. |
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Posted: 8/11/2022 6:41:31 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonKey153: Pull! 
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Posted: 8/11/2022 6:44:24 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Arminius: At that time, with the improved ammo, after the M 60 was discovered to cannot penetrate the T 72´s glacis in the 70´s! Hermann Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Arminius: Originally Posted By Lightning_P38: What was the record between M60a3s and T72s in Desert Storm. They went toe to toe under conditions that favored the Iraqis, and the outcome was definitive, the M60 was vastly superior, by about a 100 to 1 ratio. At that time, with the improved ammo, after the M 60 was discovered to cannot penetrate the T 72´s glacis in the 70´s! Hermann Don’t tell them that, someone will be along to say that they watched moto videos in the 80s that said US tanks were unstoppable. |
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Posted: 8/11/2022 7:01:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Capta]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By THOT_Vaccine: It's kinda fun watching the people with Putin daddy issues choke on the cognitive dissonance. Anyone else notice that the pussy Russians didn't kill a bunch of civilians after getting their ass handed to them? That's a new thing. Usually they target a bus station, a hospital, and an elementary school after a bloody nose. Give it a few days. They’re probably at a political crossroads in Moscow. In addition to all the propaganda/military aspects of the Crimean base attack which have already been discussed, there is one that really hasn’t been, which is the political aspect. Russia has been threatening nuclear response (under their standing policy) to any incursion into “Russian territory.” They have already “annexed” Crimea. They are preparing to “annex” Donbas and Kherson. This attack was a political statement by Ukraine (and implicitly, the West) that Ukraine and its backers give no fucks about Russian threats. Their bluff is being called. Clear statements have already been made by Ukraine and the US that Crimea and Donbas are Ukraine. This attack and future attacks will back that up. This is also against the larger background of the HIMARS offensive against Russian logistics, in spite of hysterical Russian threats. The ball is back in the Russian court. Either Putin is politically strong enough to continue down the road to destruction by implementing a “nuclear response to an attack on Russian territory”, or internal opposition will force him to begin to back down, possibly even overthrow him. If opposition forces gain the upper hand we may see no obvious response at all while the political situation shakes out in Moscow. If Putin retains the upper hand I think there is a realistic possibility of an NBC attack (or an attack on a NPP) against Ukraine. Putin has been humiliated and will want revenge in kind, but that may take days to arrange. If I were the Ukrainian government I would move critical people out of Kiev to remote locations until the response is known. |
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Posted: 8/11/2022 7:05:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Russian soldiers drown tank to escape Ukrainian shelling
 Russian soldiers drown tank to escape Ukrainian shelling |
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Posted: 8/11/2022 7:09:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By absael: Russian soldiers drown tank to escape Ukrainian shelling  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVrCg2TicWs
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USA
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Posted: 8/11/2022 7:11:09 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Here I am thinking that I could contribute nothing to the UA speaking only Eng. and Hungarian and not a word of Ukrainian (except Cuka). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
After near miss, guy runs to the vehicle and video cuts out.
Here I am thinking that I could contribute nothing to the UA speaking only Eng. and Hungarian and not a word of Ukrainian (except Cuka). Love this! Franko! |
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Posted: 8/11/2022 7:12:24 PM EDT
[#8]
A fun little simulation of Mig-29 w/HARMS vs. Russian air defense:
 Is Ukraine Hitting Russian Radars With US HARM Anti-Radiation Missiles? (WarGames 71) | DCS |
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USA
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Posted: 8/11/2022 7:18:52 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Pretty cool video of a Javelin strike. Tank drives for a while on fire before engine gives out. Driver bails. https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/wlykc2/javelin_takes_down_the_orcs_take_possibe_two_crew/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 Russian TOS-1 strike on a town, demonstrating why you don’t want to be under one. https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/wlnafs/and_here_is_a_visual_video_explaining_why_russia/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 Fleeing BMP gets nailed, two other dead BMPs visible. https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/wlnym9/destruction_of_3_enemy_bmps_at_once_using_a_light/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 Russia is so dumb...they are using TOS-1s on abandoned buildings...good job Ruskies... |
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Posted: 8/11/2022 7:23:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: Russia is so dumb...they are using TOS-1s on abandoned buildings...good job Ruskies... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: Originally Posted By Capta: Pretty cool video of a Javelin strike. Tank drives for a while on fire before engine gives out. Driver bails. https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/wlykc2/javelin_takes_down_the_orcs_take_possibe_two_crew/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 Russian TOS-1 strike on a town, demonstrating why you don’t want to be under one. https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/wlnafs/and_here_is_a_visual_video_explaining_why_russia/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 Fleeing BMP gets nailed, two other dead BMPs visible. https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/wlnym9/destruction_of_3_enemy_bmps_at_once_using_a_light/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 Russia is so dumb...they are using TOS-1s on abandoned buildings...good job Ruskies... What makes you think the UAF isn't holed up in the ruins? |
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Posted: 8/11/2022 7:45:20 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 8/11/2022 8:10:35 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By birdbarian: What makes you think the UAF isn't holed up in the ruins? Yep, absolutely possible. |
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Posted: 8/11/2022 8:16:52 PM EDT
[#13]
Seems a bit quiet for HIMARS O'Clock. Not much popping on TG.
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Posted: 8/11/2022 8:17:44 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By birdbarian: What makes you think the UAF isn't holed up in the ruins? |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/11/2022 8:19:44 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WoodHeat: On my first ship as a cadet I walked in on the Captain drinking Aqua Velva or something that looked like it. We were a few days out from home port after a thirty day run. I guess his stash ran out. Weird shit happened on that ship when we were towards the end of the run. When people want to get a buzz they find a way. May not have been Aqua Velva...or whatever. My dad sent me vodka in a Scope bottle, died blue. It tasted like crap though so I traded it to one of the more professional drinkers. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/11/2022 8:35:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K0UA: I still remember watching NBC news from Desert Storm and experts on the news told us over and over how the T72 was going to cream our tanks because our tanks were just not made to run in the hot and dusty conditions like the T72's were. I can remember the father in law telling me how we were going to take a beating. They also mentioned that our men were not conditioned to operate in the desert either like the Iraqi's were. And showed a clip of a GI drinking from a liter bottle of water and in obvious heat distress. And the whole thing was over in about 100 hours. Due to the overwhelming air superiority, the Iraqis had to dig their tanks in. Our M1's and TOW's out ranged them and where free to maneuver. We also had NV and thermal while the Iragi's did not (mostly). I agree that the M1 was superior to the T72 used by Iraq. But it was mainly the ability to see and hit the target while the target (T72) could not and had to sit there and take it. I talked to TOW gunners that were knocking out T72 after T72 at the extreme end (or a little beyond) their range while the Iraqi's had nothing to respond. Based on this scenario, you could say that a Hummer with a TOW is a better "tank" than the T72. Obviously not true but if you play to your strengths against the enemies' weakness, you will appear to be 10X better. Mosin with a 4X scope at 1000M is a better "assault rifle" than the M4 or AK or whatever. |
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Posted: 8/11/2022 8:38:17 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CS223: Seems a bit quiet for HIMARS O'Clock. Not much popping on TG.  Attached File |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/11/2022 8:38:46 PM EDT
[#18]
So seeing videos of Russian equipment....like putting modern covers over their old surplus metal helmets. One I saw yesterday was a Russian tank that had foam blocks in the explosive armor instead of explosives. Is the bulk of Russian equipment in that state? Is that the consensus?
And was there any fallout over the rooskie that was identified after mutilating the Ukrainian soldier? |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 8/11/2022 9:13:35 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Apparently the USMC didn’t get thermals on M60s. Ever. Except some A3s from the Army in theater. True. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 8/11/2022 9:39:33 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Fewer than a dozen M60A3s served in ODS, the Army had the M1A1 and the Marines the M60A1 with ERA. The T-72s Iraq used weren’t what the Soviets would have put in the front line. Theirs had composite armor, reactive armor and DU ammunition. There were studies in the late 1980s that assessed a 105mm round would have less than a 1 in 4 chance of penetrating from the front. And that was the high range of the estimate. Of course, Marine crews are 100 times better than Iraqi crews. That makes a difference. Marines were probably only 50x better than Soviet crews.  Edit: couldn’t remember when I typed this which era we were talking about specifically. Comparing like era T-72 and M-60 they are a lot more alike than people want to admit. The big differences being advances in ammunition, thermals, fire control and armor. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By Lightning_P38: What was the record between M60a3s and T72s in Desert Storm. They went toe to toe under conditions that favored the Iraqis, and the outcome was definitive, the M60 was vastly superior, by about a 100 to 1 ratio. Fewer than a dozen M60A3s served in ODS, the Army had the M1A1 and the Marines the M60A1 with ERA. The T-72s Iraq used weren’t what the Soviets would have put in the front line. Theirs had composite armor, reactive armor and DU ammunition. There were studies in the late 1980s that assessed a 105mm round would have less than a 1 in 4 chance of penetrating from the front. And that was the high range of the estimate. Of course, Marine crews are 100 times better than Iraqi crews. That makes a difference. Marines were probably only 50x better than Soviet crews. Edit: couldn’t remember when I typed this which era we were talking about specifically. Comparing like era T-72 and M-60 they are a lot more alike than people want to admit. The big differences being advances in ammunition, thermals, fire control and armor. We lost 2 of 17 M60a1's in our company. Neither to enemy fire. 1 was lost to an anti-personnel mine that got flipped into the track right at a roadwheel by a mine roller, and the 2nd to a final drive failure. As far as crew quality, you're likely right. We had spent 7-8 months + training together, even if we didn't get as much live fire time as we'd have liked. We drilled and drilled some more. Communication within crews and even across platoons and companies was terse and to the point. Fire commands were down to 3-4 words (target and ammunition selection) and 2 responses long by the time we got to that point. Give me an hour or two to refresh and I could probably call for artillery fire or do a 9-line brief for air with a high level of competence - because work on tanks, lift weights, and drill, drill, drill was about it for excitement for months on end. We were stunned by the failure of the Iraqi army to fight effectively (There were a few notable exceptions to that - but this is enough thread drift). |
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Posted: 8/11/2022 9:42:43 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion on Russian-Kazakhstan relationship (Polish source):
https://youtu.be/53aeFyCz-vQ Discussion on US-Baltic military cooperation and defense posture (Polish source): https://youtu.be/4c3XP52E6Dw |
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Posted: 8/11/2022 9:50:33 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By B5Sluggo: We lost 2 of 17 M60a1's in our company. Neither to enemy fire. 1 was lost to an anti-personnel mine that got flipped into the track right at a roadwheel by a mine roller, and the 2nd to a final drive failure. As far as crew quality, you're likely right. We had spent 7-8 months + training together, even if we didn't get as much live fire time as we'd have liked. We drilled and drilled some more. Communication within crews and even across platoons and companies was terse and to the point. Fire commands were down to 3-4 words (target and ammunition selection) and 2 responses long by the time we got to that point. Give me an hour or two to refresh and I could probably call for artillery fire or do a 9-line brief for air with a high level of competence - because work on tanks, lift weights, and drill, drill, drill was about it for excitement for months on end. We were stunned by the failure of the Iraqi army to fight effectively (There were a few notable exceptions to that - but this is enough thread drift). And if you’d done your train up in T-72 Urals and fought Iraqi M60A1s the result would likely have been exactly the same. |
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Posted: 8/11/2022 9:53:01 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 8/11/2022 10:05:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Capta]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Russia has made so many nuclear threats that its impossible to count them at this point. I recall two statements by the US. This one, and another that said “credible nuclear deterrent is in place.” You can bet that the latest statement was in response to things we know are being discussed/planned by Russia in response to the Crimean airbase attack. I believe we’re serious and aren’t going to let Russia get away with nuclear blackmail, let alone nuclear use. Someone in Russia had better do what’s necessary, fast. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/11/2022 10:35:08 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime:
Thanks Prime.  Your link is super valuable to the people following the actual effects on the Russian economy. I will re-post a link to a study from The Yale School of Management, evaluating the actual condition of the Russian economy (since nothing from the Kremlin is trustworthy): https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4167193 The outlook for Russia is grim. |
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Posted: 8/11/2022 10:41:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WoodHeat]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: May not have been Aqua Velva...or whatever. My dad sent me vodka in a Scope bottle, died blue. It tasted like crap though so I traded it to one of the more professional drinkers. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By WoodHeat: On my first ship as a cadet I walked in on the Captain drinking Aqua Velva or something that looked like it. We were a few days out from home port after a thirty day run. I guess his stash ran out. Weird shit happened on that ship when we were towards the end of the run. When people want to get a buzz they find a way. May not have been Aqua Velva...or whatever. My dad sent me vodka in a Scope bottle, died blue. It tasted like crap though so I traded it to one of the more professional drinkers. I doubt that was the case, but it's possible. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/11/2022 10:48:42 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: I expect he woke up with a hang-over and thought to himself. "Wow, I kind of went overboard last night. New rule is No Posting When Drinking." And I don't know if the chicken or the egg came first, but americans are now very divided and seem to have a policy toward other americans of "If you are not with me, then you are against me." That attitude lends itself really well to being manipulated by other people who find it useful. And the perfect example is that a bunch of americans can be turned against Ukraine simply by pointing out something from Ukraines history or ancient history that people in american would have a problem with. But it's a common theme/tactic I see a lot lately and it works. It also works perfectly with cancel culture. Find a questionable text message from 15 years ago, and a person is kicked out of the team. It's really bad for america, and russia has been able to capitalize on it, we've all seen it. People should support Ukraine in this conflict, but failing to support either side is not the same as actively supporting the other side. I'll get off my soapbox,...for now. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Originally Posted By AROKIE: Incase yall missed the meltdown of a bizarre commie lover last night.. https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/F-Yo-Ukraine/5-2576400/?page=1 I expect he woke up with a hang-over and thought to himself. "Wow, I kind of went overboard last night. New rule is No Posting When Drinking." And I don't know if the chicken or the egg came first, but americans are now very divided and seem to have a policy toward other americans of "If you are not with me, then you are against me." That attitude lends itself really well to being manipulated by other people who find it useful. And the perfect example is that a bunch of americans can be turned against Ukraine simply by pointing out something from Ukraines history or ancient history that people in american would have a problem with. But it's a common theme/tactic I see a lot lately and it works. It also works perfectly with cancel culture. Find a questionable text message from 15 years ago, and a person is kicked out of the team. It's really bad for america, and russia has been able to capitalize on it, we've all seen it. People should support Ukraine in this conflict, but failing to support either side is not the same as actively supporting the other side. I'll get off my soapbox,...for now. You are not wrong about the dangerous division in American society; I believe the danger is underestimated. Consider this survey: 25% of university students believe violence is an acceptable way to shut down controversial speakers |
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Posted: 8/11/2022 10:57:24 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroEngineer: Since there is more than one crew member but only the driver escapes, I'm assuming the rest are dead? ETA: Would have been nice if the drone had been carrying an antipersonnel grenade and could have taken out the crewmember as he ran away. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroEngineer: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Nice Javelin kill on a Russian tank, drone gets close near the end.
Since there is more than one crew member but only the driver escapes, I'm assuming the rest are dead? ETA: Would have been nice if the drone had been carrying an antipersonnel grenade and could have taken out the crewmember as he ran away. I was hoping the turret would blow and squish him when it returned to earth. 
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Posted: 8/11/2022 11:18:30 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: You are not wrong about the dangerous division in American society; I believe the danger is underestimated. Consider this survey: 25% of university students believe violence is an acceptable way to shut down controversial speakers Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: Originally Posted By stone-age: Originally Posted By AROKIE: Incase yall missed the meltdown of a bizarre commie lover last night.. https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/F-Yo-Ukraine/5-2576400/?page=1 I expect he woke up with a hang-over and thought to himself. "Wow, I kind of went overboard last night. New rule is No Posting When Drinking." And I don't know if the chicken or the egg came first, but americans are now very divided and seem to have a policy toward other americans of "If you are not with me, then you are against me." That attitude lends itself really well to being manipulated by other people who find it useful. And the perfect example is that a bunch of americans can be turned against Ukraine simply by pointing out something from Ukraines history or ancient history that people in american would have a problem with. But it's a common theme/tactic I see a lot lately and it works. It also works perfectly with cancel culture. Find a questionable text message from 15 years ago, and a person is kicked out of the team. It's really bad for america, and russia has been able to capitalize on it, we've all seen it. People should support Ukraine in this conflict, but failing to support either side is not the same as actively supporting the other side. I'll get off my soapbox,...for now. You are not wrong about the dangerous division in American society; I believe the danger is underestimated. Consider this survey: 25% of university students believe violence is an acceptable way to shut down controversial speakers That can, and should go both ways if one side wants to go there. |
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Posted: 8/11/2022 11:19:25 PM EDT
[#30]
Regarding the HARM that supposedly struck a house today.
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USA
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Posted: 8/11/2022 11:45:31 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
It would be just terrible if the Free Russia Legion discovered cheap, easily made, thermite . . . |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 12:52:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Capta]
[#32]
Read and watched some stuff by Dzokhar Dudayev today that’s relevant.
 ''The Ukrainians will never agree with russification'' Dzhokhar Dudayev, Interview 1995 (English dub) Another quote: “The biggest mistake is to neglect the Ukrainians, consider Ukrainians weak, offend the Ukrainians. Never offend Ukrainians. Ukrainians are never as weak as you think. Almighty Allah forbid, expel Ukrainians or take something away from Ukrainians. Ukrainians always come back. The Ukrainians will return and return what is theirs. But when the Ukrainians return, they do not know how to calculate the force and apply it proportionally. They will destroy everything in their path. Do not offend the Ukrainians. Otherwise, when Ukrainians return to the land where their ancestors are buried, those living on this land will envy the dead." -Dzokhar Dudajev The more I read about Dudayev the more I respect the man. He was astute almost beyond belief. Helping Russia assassinate him has to be one of the stupidest foreign policy decisions this country ever made. After reading the last quote, given Dudayev’s predictive track record, I think it would be wise for all Russian transplants to leave Ukraine before the Russian army leaves Ukraine. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 12:54:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AROKIE]
[#33]
I was scrolling through this thread from the beginning of the invasion well actually the day before to see again how it all went down, and i came across this guy again, same dude who had the melt down yesterday in GD about Ukraine... the day before the invasion he was on here posting how we were all wrong and falling for the "hype" and that there would be no invasion and calling it all bullshit along with us... well here is this GEM and i noticed also no one called him out on how wrong he was, and now i guess it explains his meltdown yesterday, i guess it really damaged his psyche pretty bad being so wrong in the beginning.
 Originally Posted By Bluegrass cardinal: Originally Posted By 58Teague: @Bluegrasscardinal While I agree that monitoring EAMS is pointless, and twitter is 2nd hand info, your predictions do not match the situation on the ground. Maybe so? But who really knows what the situation the ground is? All we can gather is that Russia has recognized two breakaway republics and has "unverified" moved assets into these areas. There is also unconfirmed cyber attacks on UKR govt websites. If we wake up in the morning to missile attack on Kyiv and invasion, y'all can bust my balls all day tomorrow. Won't happen though.   The next morning Ukraine did wake up to missile attack, even the day before the invasion he was still calling the Russian buildup "unverified"... lol
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Posted: 8/12/2022 1:01:29 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Regarding the HARM that supposedly struck a house today.
Russia still doesnt understand that the rest of the world is smarter than there "smartest" propagandist's... lol everytime they put out some fake incident or "proof" of something It doesnt take but a few hours for it to be totally debunked...i love it... it must really piss them off when it happens every time..
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Posted: 8/12/2022 1:17:47 AM EDT
[#35]
CCTV video of a battle outside Zaporizhia NPP in March. Never saw this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/wmayao/with_nuclear_disaster_looming_remember_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 1:19:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: _disconnector_]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Russia still doesnt understand that the rest of the world is smarter than there "smartest" propagandist's... lol everytime they put out some fake incident or "proof" of something It doesnt take but a few hours for it to be totally debunked...i love it... it must really piss them off when it happens every time.. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Regarding the HARM that supposedly struck a house today.
Russia still doesnt understand that the rest of the world is smarter than there "smartest" propagandist's... lol everytime they put out some fake incident or "proof" of something It doesnt take but a few hours for it to be totally debunked...i love it... it must really piss them off when it happens every time.. I mean seriously . . . - Ukrainians are super soldiers created in US labs - Mosquitos carrying Russian specific biowarfare germs getting blown over the border - A dropped cigarette blew up an entire airbase - The Moskva blew up due to yet another dropped cigarette - That the entire civilized world sanctioning Russia hasn't effected their economy - That the entire Kyiv debacle in the first couple of weeks was an intentional feint - That Russia is holding back "the good stuff" - etc etc etc People stupid enough to believe this crap will believe anything. Ergo the painfully bad propaganda. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 1:36:17 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _disconnector_: People stupid enough to believe this crap will believe anything. Ergo the painfully bad propaganda. It doesn't explain how all the Alexi Joneskov & Tucker worshippers seem to believe it, too, though. Cognitive Dissonance. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 1:43:27 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: It doesn't explain how all the Alexi Joneskov & Tucker worshippers seem to believe it, too, though. Cognitive Dissonance. They are like tv preachers that depend on suckers to make a living. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 1:56:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: _disconnector_]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: It doesn't explain how all the Alexi Joneskov & Tucker worshippers seem to believe it, too, though. Cognitive Dissonance. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: Originally Posted By _disconnector_: People stupid enough to believe this crap will believe anything. Ergo the painfully bad propaganda. It doesn't explain how all the Alexi Joneskov & Tucker worshippers seem to believe it, too, though. Cognitive Dissonance. I'm a principal engineer for an overly large technology company. I'm surrounded day in and out by other engineers and developers. My peer group is technical and type A for the most part. While I'm certainly no genius, I deal with complex problems every day and design unique and (hopefully) innovative solutions with my brain and experience. I know that many of you do work every day in the trades that require the same sort of thinking and smarts so I know it's not just a technology thing. My dad who is a car mechanic is literally the smartest "common sense" man that I know - he can figure out pretty much anything if you give him time to get oriented. This isn't a schooling thing - it's a natural ability to process data and come up with effective solutions. And we all have self selected a group that's like ourselves to hang out with so we assume *everyone* is like us. But they aren't . . . One day I was driving home and I was struck by the utter incomprehensible stupidity of many of the folks in cars around me. Many of them drive like the cognitive load of operating a motor vehicle and breathing simultaneously is just too much. They wander all over the road oblivious to everyone else around them like they're lost or something. Or just step into a Walmart for 10 minutes and you'll be up to your neck in people who probably need Ikea style pictographic instructions to put on their underwear correctly. I said to myself - " what the f^&k?!?! . . . it's like they're stupid or something". And it struck me - the average IQ is 100 right? That means that 50% of Americans fall on the high AND the low side of the curve. Literally half of the people around you have a sub 100 IQ. I know it sounds like an obvious thing but I had never really thought about it. It's just that many people are literally stupid and lack the ability to process incoming data and create intelligent opinions. That's the only reason that I can come up with to explain people following Alex Jones or QAnon. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 2:04:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Jack67]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Russia still doesnt understand that the rest of the world is smarter than there "smartest" propagandist's... lol everytime they put out some fake incident or "proof" of something It doesnt take but a few hours for it to be totally debunked...i love it... it must really piss them off when it happens every time.. The problem is - debunking it in English on the internet doesn't matter at all. You have to debunk it in Russian on domestic TV. And no one is able to do that. It's propaganda designed for a closed audience at home. They only need it to play for a short while at home to achieve their objectives. "We are losing only because of overwhelming assault by NATO forces." This propaganda is to indoctrinate and misdirect at home; any effects from bleed-over past the borders is incidental and unimportant. I have very anti-Putin Russian immigrant friends who still haven't been completely de-programmed from what they were exposed to in Russia. For example, huge swathes of Russian-language media consumers still believe: - A US submarine sank the Kursk - A Ukrainian Su-25 shot down the Malaysian Air 17 Boeing 777. Going further back, they still push things like: - The Katyn massacre was done by the Germans. - Tukachevsky was a German spy, victim of Stalin. etc., etc. They have been hammered with these lies and shown evidence, and no truth or counter. When they are given a clear case, they figure it out. And the bitterness becomes deeper. But it's not something you can do domestically in Russia with the media and language barriers. Language is a part of the fascist success in Russia - it keeps outside ideas at bay when there is really no other media access for most of the population. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/12/2022 2:21:27 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: Yeah, I was just thinking about that, the Russians are about to lose a lot of market share. Some because it will take them at least a decade to replace all their own blown up stuff, some because all the customers watched that stuff blowing up helplessly in HD. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/172926/arms_exports_jpg-2485311.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: Yeah, I was just thinking about that, the Russians are about to lose a lot of market share. Some because it will take them at least a decade to replace all their own blown up stuff, some because all the customers watched that stuff blowing up helplessly in HD. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/172926/arms_exports_jpg-2485311.JPG The real winner is China and other Asian countries. Russian stuff has already been falling out of favor. Eastern Europe has largely turned towards the West for weaponry. India and Egypt (mainly for political reasons) are still big buyers of Russian stuff. There are many other Asian and African countries that would be interested in Russian stuff. The problem is Russia will have a problem, at least in the short term, replenishing advanced technologies like radars. Of course eventually China will fill in longer term and Russia can get back to exporting and building. The problem is by that time China will likely have eclipsed most if not all Russian equipment. China is already making massive strides. Their stuff is still not great, but their newest designs are getting better. They can also produce on a mass scale bringing favorable economies of scale. In the future we'll see a lot more Asian and African countries turning to Chinese equipment over Russia. And for other middle ground countries like Poland, Egypt, Malaysia and the like there will be South Korea and now Japan. Poland is buying massive amounts of Korean tanks, artillery, and planes. For many neutral countries Asia will be mass exporters in the future. They have more money to throw around than most European countries. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 2:29:28 AM EDT
[#42]
An angle of the Saky base attack i haven't seen:
 Ukraine war, Two simultaneous explosions at Saki airbase in occupied Crimea, possible Neptune attack |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 8/12/2022 3:23:18 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By urbanredneck: So seeing videos of Russian equipment....like putting modern covers over their old surplus metal helmets. One I saw yesterday was a Russian tank that had foam blocks in the explosive armor instead of explosives. Is the bulk of Russian equipment in that state? Is that the consensus? And was there any fallout over the rooskie that was identified after mutilating the Ukrainian soldier? What you saw was a T-80BVM that was captured in March that had already been stripped of anything useful including the explosive filler in the ERA. https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1498984538319597573?s=21&t=MWyEhXO_4tGbrnploGw5-Q https://youtu.be/T_fwZf9vrO0 |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 3:43:41 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dbnd: What you saw was a T-80BVM that was captured in March that had already been stripped of anything useful including the explosive filler in the ERA. https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1498984538319597573?s=21&t=MWyEhXO_4tGbrnploGw5-Q https://youtu.be/T_fwZf9vrO0 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dbnd: Originally Posted By urbanredneck: So seeing videos of Russian equipment....like putting modern covers over their old surplus metal helmets. One I saw yesterday was a Russian tank that had foam blocks in the explosive armor instead of explosives. Is the bulk of Russian equipment in that state? Is that the consensus? And was there any fallout over the rooskie that was identified after mutilating the Ukrainian soldier? What you saw was a T-80BVM that was captured in March that had already been stripped of anything useful including the explosive filler in the ERA. https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1498984538319597573?s=21&t=MWyEhXO_4tGbrnploGw5-Q https://youtu.be/T_fwZf9vrO0 Russian tanks have been found with there era filled with wood blocks and even egg crates.. the corruption in russian manufacturing is terrible |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 8/12/2022 4:04:17 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Russian tanks have been found with there era filled with wood blocks and even egg crates.. the corruption in russian manufacturing is terrible And some like the tank below and the one in question are stripped of anything useful once in Ukrainian hands. https://mobile.twitter.com/uaweapons/status/1519795024715730946 |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 5:31:56 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Someone forgot where NTC is. I was with C 1/5 Cav(Inf) attached to 1/8 Cav(Tankers) for the exercise. I heard that some of the M1s had the same problem, but I can't verify. I was a PV2 Bradley driver at the time.  |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 5:38:12 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Nice Javelin kill on a Russian tank, drone gets close near the end.
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Posted: 8/12/2022 6:10:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Jack67]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: An angle of the Saky base attack i haven't seen: Ya, we posted this one day of - but it's worth re-posting because IME it's the best one. It clearly shows the low drifting smoke, then the two near-simultaneous explosions, then another. It has the closest perspective and feel for timing. I tried playing with it the other day going frame by frame, mainly looking for any glint or hint of a missile. Nothing. However I don't think that means anything because of distance, resolution, and frame rate. All I learned is that they do have some large hummingbirds in Crimea - that's the thing about :07.  The best I could figure was that this was about 2mi north of the base in an area called Orekhovo, and those were explosions of some of the munitions among the revetments in the principal photo everyone has been ogling. The wind drift correlates with that of the beach photos (offshore wind). Anyway, didn't really learn anything from this so I didn't go into depth. The big question in my mind was how two cooked off simultaneously. I keep thinking air burst, but I'm not an SME in this so I don't know! The other thing that bugs me is each of the three explosions are almost identical, within variance. No secondaries obvious. To me that means identical, massive primary source- not drones, or planted bombs, etc. Maybe someone else can glean more from it. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 7:20:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: theskuh]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Ya, we posted this one day of - but it's worth re-posting because IME it's the best one. It clearly shows the low drifting smoke, then the two near-simultaneous explosions, then another. It has the closest perspective and feel for timing. I tried playing with it the other day going frame by frame, mainly looking for any glint or hint of a missile. Nothing. However I don't think that means anything because of distance, resolution, and frame rate. All I learned is that they do have some large hummingbirds in Crimea - that's the thing about :07. The best I could figure was that this was about 2mi north of the base in an area called Orekhovo, and those were explosions of some of the munitions among the revetments in the principal photo everyone has been ogling. The wind drift correlates with that of the beach photos (offshore wind). Anyway, didn't really learn anything from this so I didn't go into depth. The big question in my mind was how two cooked off simultaneously. I keep thinking air burst, but I'm not an SME in this so I don't know! The other thing that bugs me is each of the three explosions are almost identical, within variance. No secondaries obvious. To me that means identical, massive primary source- not drones, or planted bombs, etc. Maybe someone else can glean more from it. Yea. They hit every ammo storage building. Every crater is under a storage building. I am leaning towards someone planted charges or attacked the storage buildings locally and thats what caused the original smoke. Then the secondaries took over, thats what we are seeing on the videos when people noticed the smoke and maybe initial charges not the original attacks. if it was missiles people would be frantically starting to film like the other himars vid you see. This is different like it was a fire at first not an attack. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 7:27:08 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Ya, we posted this one day of - but it's worth re-posting because IME it's the best one. It clearly shows the low drifting smoke, then the two near-simultaneous explosions, then another. It has the closest perspective and feel for timing. I tried playing with it the other day going frame by frame, mainly looking for any glint or hint of a missile. Nothing. However I don't think that means anything because of distance, resolution, and frame rate. All I learned is that they do have some large hummingbirds in Crimea - that's the thing about :07. The best I could figure was that this was about 2mi north of the base in an area called Orekhovo, and those were explosions of some of the munitions among the revetments in the principal photo everyone has been ogling. The wind drift correlates with that of the beach photos (offshore wind). Anyway, didn't really learn anything from this so I didn't go into depth. The big question in my mind was how two cooked off simultaneously. I keep thinking air burst, but I'm not an SME in this so I don't know! The other thing that bugs me is each of the three explosions are almost identical, within variance. No secondaries obvious. To me that means identical, massive primary source- not drones, or planted bombs, etc. Maybe someone else can glean more from it. I don't think that is ammo going off. Every video I've seen of ammo going boom has tons of shit flying through the air. There is none of that in those explosions. Just big booms of exactly the same size and shape. That screams warheads to me. |
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