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Posted: 9/14/2022 2:27:37 AM EDT
[#1]
Stuck page bump
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Posted: 9/14/2022 2:29:20 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Georgia proposes to hold a referendum and ask if Georgians want war with Russia "The leadership of Georgia can organize a nationwide referendum and ask the question: do the Georgians want a war with Russia. Giorgi Kobakhidze, chairman of the party, made such a statement at a briefing in the office of the ruling Georgian Dream party. “Let the people say whether they want to open a second front in Georgia against Russia,” Mr. Kobakhidze emphasized. He promised that the authorities “will act as the people say.” The politician expressed hope that the Georgian people “will bring clarity, whether he agrees with the statements of Ukrainian politicians about the need to involve Georgia in the war or with the position of the authorities of his country.”" https://odessa-journal.com/georgia-proposes-to-hold-a-referendum-and-ask-if-georgians-want-war-with-russia/ Blood in the water. Now is the time to take back lost territory. |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 2:31:47 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Georgia proposes to hold a referendum and ask if Georgians want war with Russia "The leadership of Georgia can organize a nationwide referendum and ask the question: do the Georgians want a war with Russia. Giorgi Kobakhidze, chairman of the party, made such a statement at a briefing in the office of the ruling Georgian Dream party. “Let the people say whether they want to open a second front in Georgia against Russia,” Mr. Kobakhidze emphasized. He promised that the authorities “will act as the people say.” The politician expressed hope that the Georgian people “will bring clarity, whether he agrees with the statements of Ukrainian politicians about the need to involve Georgia in the war or with the position of the authorities of his country.”" https://odessa-journal.com/georgia-proposes-to-hold-a-referendum-and-ask-if-georgians-want-war-with-russia/ Oh yes. It’s on.  Attached File |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 9/14/2022 3:45:06 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flogger23m: People just want the enemies gun. That is the appeal. There is some differences with the barrel I believe, but probably nothing noteworthy. Simply put Russia is attached to the AK and didn't seem to want to build something from scratch. They didn't have the money to buy high end stuff, so they ended up buying low end trash parts and decided to give it a new name. It has become clear Russia was so poorly funded. Not that a rifle makes much of a difference, but it is just another example of how ill equipped Russia was. Sunk costs. They have millions of 74s, 74Ms, etc in service and in storage. A token order for some AK-12s and upgrade kits for the 74s is less expensive than developing the AM-17 and tooling up to make it by their thinking. They would have probably been better off just cloning the RS Regulate mounts and actually buying optics to go on them |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 3:49:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: PMB1086]
[#5]
Russians calling the surrender line.
 'Hello, is this Ukraine?' I want to surrender – Russian soldiers realise they are losing the war |
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IRL
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Posted: 9/14/2022 4:02:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Schmigs]
[#6]
  It's interesting that Russian casualties are still high but Tank and AFV losses are so low. |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 4:23:51 AM EDT
[#7]
Vehicle losses are also very high. I suspect they are exploiting still and in pursuit.
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Posted: 9/14/2022 4:45:41 AM EDT
[#8]
Pre-fabricated sections for bridge repair is my guess. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/14/2022 4:47:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: There was a report a week or so ago that the Russians are pulling WWII era 122mm howitzers out of the back corner of the depots to replace their 155mm's partly because of a 155mm ammo shortage, partly because the 155 barrels are burned out (and since then a bunch of 155's were captured or killed by counterbattery). I guess burst barrels should become less common for a time, but they're giving up a third of the range and half the shell weight. Rate of fire is similar, so they're taking a big hit to firepower (and to survivability due to the reduced range) by downgrading caliber. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: I don't have time to read every page, so apologies if this was already posted.
@R0N Am I right in thinking this is going to be close to the condition of a LOT of Russian artillery tubes for the weeks to come? Not only the barrels, the whole vehicle is done after this heavy firing. BTW, RU is using 152mm arty, 155mm is the NATO standard |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 5:07:04 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PMB1086:
Pre-fabricated sections for bridge repair is my guess. I thought about this before, and how to quickly "fix" the bridges. After Hurricane Katrina in the New Orleans area, a temporary bridge was constructed over the areas with missing spans. Basically like an erector set.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 5:31:54 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easterner: I thought about this before, and how to quickly "fix" the bridges. After Hurricane Katrina in the New Orleans area, a temporary bridge was constructed over the areas with missing spans. Basically like an erector set. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/5d16930a373a3_image_jpg-2525672.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/5d16930a1bf98_image_jpg-2525673.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easterner: Originally Posted By PMB1086:
Pre-fabricated sections for bridge repair is my guess. I thought about this before, and how to quickly "fix" the bridges. After Hurricane Katrina in the New Orleans area, a temporary bridge was constructed over the areas with missing spans. Basically like an erector set. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/5d16930a373a3_image_jpg-2525672.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/5d16930a1bf98_image_jpg-2525673.JPG from the comments below the tweet
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Posted: 9/14/2022 6:09:17 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PMB1086: from the comments below the tweet
In Ukraine, slumbering HIMARS shift in their sleep, their noses sensing fresh prey within reach. |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 6:13:54 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: In Ukraine, slumbering HIMARS shift in their sleep, their noses sensing fresh prey within reach. Let's hope that some day Ukrainian school children will be learning about "The day of 1,000 HIMARS". |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 6:13:54 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: In Ukraine, slumbering HIMARS shift in their sleep, their noses sensing fresh prey within reach. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: Originally Posted By PMB1086: from the comments below the tweet
In Ukraine, slumbering HIMARS shift in their sleep, their noses sensing fresh prey within reach. Hah that was clever. Straight out of a Goodnight Construction Site book. Lol. |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 6:14:56 AM EDT
[#15]
 
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Posted: 9/14/2022 6:20:32 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PMB1086: from the comments below the tweet
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PMB1086: Originally Posted By Easterner: Originally Posted By PMB1086:
Pre-fabricated sections for bridge repair is my guess. I thought about this before, and how to quickly "fix" the bridges. After Hurricane Katrina in the New Orleans area, a temporary bridge was constructed over the areas with missing spans. Basically like an erector set. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/5d16930a373a3_image_jpg-2525672.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/5d16930a1bf98_image_jpg-2525673.JPG from the comments below the tweet
They want all that equipment to go with them. I hope Ukraine lets them repair the bridge and sink that shit in the river as well. |
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IRL
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Posted: 9/14/2022 6:43:05 AM EDT
[#17]
This is probably bullshit but...
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Posted: 9/14/2022 6:51:31 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Oh yes. It’s on. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/It_s_Happening_Isn_t_It-117.gif Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By stone-age: Georgia proposes to hold a referendum and ask if Georgians want war with Russia "The leadership of Georgia can organize a nationwide referendum and ask the question: do the Georgians want a war with Russia. Giorgi Kobakhidze, chairman of the party, made such a statement at a briefing in the office of the ruling Georgian Dream party. “Let the people say whether they want to open a second front in Georgia against Russia,” Mr. Kobakhidze emphasized. He promised that the authorities “will act as the people say.” The politician expressed hope that the Georgian people “will bring clarity, whether he agrees with the statements of Ukrainian politicians about the need to involve Georgia in the war or with the position of the authorities of his country.”" https://odessa-journal.com/georgia-proposes-to-hold-a-referendum-and-ask-if-georgians-want-war-with-russia/ Oh yes. It’s on. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/It_s_Happening_Isn_t_It-117.gif I’m not sure, I’ve been skipping that because I don’t know what to make of it. His political party has been accused of being secretly pro-Russian, and this could just be them offering something that no one wants to improve their image. I’m curious if anyone here understands Georgia and can explain not only the politics, but why so many guys are named Giorgi. |
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IRL
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Posted: 9/14/2022 6:53:30 AM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 9/14/2022 7:07:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#20]
“Whoa – wait a minute, wait a minute… what have we here, gentlemen?
The Russians have themselves an RV”
Belgorod publics write that the border guards of the Russian Federation abandoned the Verigovka border checkpoint.
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Posted: 9/14/2022 7:15:19 AM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 9/14/2022 7:21:05 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Schmigs: This is probably bullshit but...
Maybe…🤞 https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1669022/ukraine-live-vladimir-putin-russia-war-kremlin-kharkiv-volodymyr-zelensky-updates |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 7:27:13 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime:
Maybe https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1669022/ukraine-live-vladimir-putin-russia-war-kremlin-kharkiv-volodymyr-zelensky-updates Given that the Russians made no attempt to hide the fact that they sent teams into Kiev to assassinate Zelensky one day one of the invasion the Ukrainians certainly would be justified, but I believe their teams would be more effective. |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 7:37:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: omar]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Schmigs: It's interesting that Russian casualties are still high but Tank and AFV losses are so low. They are in Russia's rear areas tearing up support troops. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 9/14/2022 7:43:34 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By omar: They are in Russia's rear areas tearing up support troops. Not to mention the russians aren't replacing tanks quickly, but i've seen IFVs and Arty being pulled by trucks.... so i imagine the tank numbers have to drop off after there are none left. I wonder if a stolen Lada is included in the numbers if it goes boom while carrying Rooshuns? |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 7:51:49 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: For all we know, fewer than that are functional. We need to keep working on missile defense. Every single one of the "Its hopeless, the Russians will just overwhelm whatever we come up with" smarty pants assholes from the 80s needs to be punched right in the mouth. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By sq40: Only 1-2% of their nuclear weapons need to work and reach their targets to be absolutely devastating to the world in unimaginable ways. For all we know, fewer than that are functional. We need to keep working on missile defense. Every single one of the "Its hopeless, the Russians will just overwhelm whatever we come up with" smarty pants assholes from the 80s needs to be punched right in the mouth. I hope that they have completely fucked up their nuclear program and it would largely fail. I would think their subs probably have the most well maintained weapons of the lot. If war seems imminent, a preemptive strike is obviously our best chance. On the SDI, I agree. It should have been our top priority for decades. It’s funny, but a lot of average people believe that it was never stopped and we have some wonder technology that will protect us in full. |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 9/14/2022 8:07:29 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: 1.474 deployed strategic warheads. 1% of that is 15. Can they promise to get California?  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By sq40: Only 1-2% of their nuclear weapons need to work and reach their targets to be absolutely devastating to the world in unimaginable ways. 1.474 deployed strategic warheads. 1% of that is 15. Can they promise to get California? As much as we joke about wanting it to happen, that would be devastating to our economy. |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 8:10:46 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: I am not saying its right, but I could pull four books off my bookshelves that describe precisely those events taking place, and I can tell you the names of the people who did it. A retired COL described being with the 82nd, he had about a squad, they had a squad of SS prisoners, and they had to exfiltrate through the woods at night or be overrun. If they took them along they'd get jumped. They didnt take the chance. The more you study of history the more you realize its grey. And the more leaders get attached to their men, the more things they are willing to do to keep their people alive. A similar vignette in the 2ID. Another in the 101st. Makes you wonder, hm? That's not a hypothetical, that's what actually happens. I suppose that COL had to ask himself if he took the SS along and one of his men died as a result, could he face the family of the man he lost? At the end of the day, the job has the potential to be impossible. People have breaking points. Physical, moral, mental. In the last modern wars we were rarely in positions that people found themselves in those positions. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: Originally Posted By CenterMass762: Originally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By CenterMass762: I've argued against mistreatment and torturing of POWs multiple times in this very thread, a few months back. With that said, I could easily be persuaded to agree in this case. Here’s a datapoint on how the American officer pool feels about torturing/killing prisoners. Pretty much 50/50 on it from this example. -Several years ago (over a decade) I was interviewed by a USN O-6 for a slot. He interviewed quite a few candidates across all branches and a few civilians, was not USN specific. - After the interview was done and the evaluation fixed, he posed a hypothetical. If ordered by a USMC BG in your chain of command, would you kill a prisoner who was a high-value enemy intelligence operative? The reason is that you are about to be overrun and you can not evacuate him w/you. - I was aghast and said no. He asked why, I reiterated the same points as mentioned here for the most part. Afterwards, I asked him what his pool-wide results were across candidates and a few years. He said it was very much 50-50. Would it make me a bad person if my answer isn't a hard no?  I could see being okay doing that under certain circumstances. Torturing them, however, would be a hard no from me no matter who's giving the order. I am not saying its right, but I could pull four books off my bookshelves that describe precisely those events taking place, and I can tell you the names of the people who did it. A retired COL described being with the 82nd, he had about a squad, they had a squad of SS prisoners, and they had to exfiltrate through the woods at night or be overrun. If they took them along they'd get jumped. They didnt take the chance. The more you study of history the more you realize its grey. And the more leaders get attached to their men, the more things they are willing to do to keep their people alive. A similar vignette in the 2ID. Another in the 101st. Makes you wonder, hm? That's not a hypothetical, that's what actually happens. I suppose that COL had to ask himself if he took the SS along and one of his men died as a result, could he face the family of the man he lost? At the end of the day, the job has the potential to be impossible. People have breaking points. Physical, moral, mental. In the last modern wars we were rarely in positions that people found themselves in those positions. My great grandfather was in the Royal Hungarian army and during the war, they encountered and captured Soviet POWs. They employed them and did gardening and other remedial style task with no issues. This went one for several months until the Germans found out and took the POWs. In any case, they were treated pretty well and were fine doing these task. They were eating much better than what the Soviet army was giving out. |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 8:12:35 AM EDT
[#29]
My concern is that RU has the P66 highway and is still in Lyman.
The ua has burned a lot of men and material here. Gains are good, yes but I don't think they're as good as we think. Hope I'm wrong in my concerns |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 8:15:32 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cryo_tech: My concern is that RU has the P66 highway and is still in Lyman. The ua has burned a lot of men and material here. Gains are good, yes but I don't think they're as good as we think. Hope I'm wrong in my concerns There are numerous geolocated pictures of Ukraine at / holding sections of the P66. RU might hold a few points, but the connection is broken from a logistics use perspective for RU. Russians still active in Lyman are cut off. They lack the ability to break out, and I don't see Russia being able to put together an offensive to come get them. |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 8:29:47 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Their country is frozen by mass hysteria. They literally cannot recognize reality as it is kicking them in the nuts. Even now, they're more concerned with coming up with excuses for failure than solutions for success. Most of them appear to have learned NOTHING from all of this. Despite incurring a hefty bill for their education at 50k dead sons, husbands, fathers, and brothers. And climbing. What lesson have they learned? "We should hit all of the 'hohols' power plants and transformers!"  Russian culture is fucking cancer. 80 years of communism ruined anything good about their culture, irrevocably. The only possible reformers have fled the country to start new lives elsewhere and took with them any chance of making Russia better. We talk about a coup to "fix" Russia... fix it with what? They only have more of the same to replace it with. You can't make a government less corrupt than the sum of its constituent members. Well said. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 9/14/2022 8:34:06 AM EDT
[#32]
Exclusive: As war began, Putin rejected a Ukraine peace deal recommended by aide
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-began-putin-rejected-ukraine-peace-deal-recommended-by-his-aide-2022-09-14/ Vladimir Putin's chief envoy on Ukraine told the Russian leader as the war began that he had struck a provisional deal with Kyiv that would satisfy Russia's demand that Ukraine stay out of NATO, but Putin rejected it and pressed ahead with his military campaign, according to three people close to the Russian leadership. The Ukrainian-born envoy, Dmitry Kozak, told Putin that he believed the deal he had hammered out removed the need for Russia to pursue a large-scale occupation of Ukraine, according to these sources. Kozak's recommendation to Putin to adopt the deal is being reported by Reuters for the first time. Putin had repeatedly asserted prior to the war that NATO and its military infrastructure were creeping closer to Russia's borders by accepting new members from eastern Europe, and that the alliance was now preparing to bring Ukraine into its orbit too. Putin publicly said that represented an existential threat to Russia, forcing him to react. But, despite earlier backing the negotiations, Putin made it clear when presented with Kozak's deal that the concessions negotiated by his aide did not go far enough and that he had expanded his objectives to include annexing swathes of Ukrainian territory, the sources said. The upshot: the deal was dropped. Asked about Reuters findings, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said: "That has absolutely no relation to reality. No such thing ever happened. It is absolutely incorrect information." Kozak did not respond to requests for comment sent via the Kremlin. Mykhailo Podolyak, an adviser to the Ukrainian president, said Russia had used the negotiations as a smokescreen to prepare for its invasion, but he did not respond to questions about the substance of the talks nor confirm that a preliminary deal was reached. "Today, we clearly understand that the Russian side has never been interested in a peaceful settlement," Podolyak said. Two of the three sources said a push to get the deal finalized occurred immediately after Russia's Feb. 24 invasion. Within days, Kozak believed he had Ukraine's agreement to the main terms Russia had been seeking and recommended to Putin that he sign an agreement, the sources said. "After Feb. 24, Kozak was given carte blanche: they gave him the green light; he got the deal. He brought it back and they told him to clear off. Everything was cancelled. Putin simply changed the plan as he went along," said one of the sources close to the Russian leadership. The third source - who was told about the events by people who were briefed on the discussions between Kozak and Putin - differed on the timing, saying Kozak had proposed the deal to Putin, and had it rejected, just before the invasion. The sources all requested anonymity to share sensitive internal information. Moscow's offensive in Ukraine is the largest military campaign in Europe since World War II. It prompted sweeping economic sanctions against Russia and military support for Ukraine from Washington and its Western allies. Even if Putin had acquiesced to Kozak's plan, it remains uncertain if the war would have ended. Reuters was unable to verify independently that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy or senior officials in his government were committed to the deal. Kozak, who is 63, has been a loyal lieutenant to Putin since working with him in the 1990s in the St. Petersburg mayor's office. Kozak was well-placed to negotiate a peace deal because since 2020 Putin had tasked him with conducting talks with Ukrainian counterparts about the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine, which has been controlled by Russian-backed separatists following an uprising in 2014. After leading the Russian delegation in talks with Ukrainian officials in Berlin on Feb. 10 – brokered by France and Germany – Kozak told a late-night news conference that the latest round of those negotiations had ended without a breakthrough. Kozak also was one of those present when, three days before the invasion, Putin gathered his military and security chiefs and key aides in the Kremlin's Yekaterinsky hall for a meeting of Russia's Security Council. State television cameras recorded part of the meeting, where Putin laid out plans to give formal recognition to separatist entities in eastern Ukraine. Once the cameras were ushered out of the vast room with its neo-classical columns and domed ceiling, Kozak spoke out against Russia taking any steps to escalate the situation with Ukraine, said two of the three people close to the Russian leadership, as well as a third person who learned about what happened from people who took part in the meeting. Another individual interviewed by Reuters, who helped in the post-invasion talks, said discussions fell apart in early March when Ukrainian officials understood Putin was committed to pressing ahead with the large-scale invasion. Six months on from the start of the war, Kozak remains in his post as Kremlin deputy chief of staff. But he is no longer handling the Ukraine dossier, according to six of the sources who spoke to Reuters. "From what I can see, Kozak is nowhere to be seen," said one of the six, a source close to the separatist leadership in eastern Ukraine. |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 8:39:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#33]
The Safety Of Novorossiysk Novorossiysk sits on the Russia’s Black Sea coast, between Sochi and the now famous Kerch Bridge linking to Crimea. In recent years the naval base has been expanded and, during the Ukraine War, has been the home of many landing ships. Some submarines are normally based there but for much of the war Sevastopol became their hub. Now they have largely moved back from Sevastopol. Submarines do still call at Sevastopol, and the older submarine Alrosa, which is undergoing post-refit trials, is still active there. But it is now normal to have three Kilos in Novorossiysk, and that is a change. The move came shortly after Ukraine stepped up drone attacks on Sevastopol, targeting the Black Sea Fleet’s headquarters. The prominent HQ building was approached by drones which flew from the east, over the submarine berths. This may be part of the motivation for the change.  |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 8:46:47 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: I am not saying its right, but I could pull four books off my bookshelves that describe precisely those events taking place, and I can tell you the names of the people who did it. A retired COL described being with the 82nd, he had about a squad, they had a squad of SS prisoners, and they had to exfiltrate through the woods at night or be overrun. If they took them along they'd get jumped. They didnt take the chance. The more you study of history the more you realize its grey. And the more leaders get attached to their men, the more things they are willing to do to keep their people alive. A similar vignette in the 2ID. Another in the 101st. Makes you wonder, hm? That's not a hypothetical, that's what actually happens. I suppose that COL had to ask himself if he took the SS along and one of his men died as a result, could he face the family of the man he lost? At the end of the day, the job has the potential to be impossible. People have breaking points. Physical, moral, mental. In the last modern wars we were rarely in positions that people found themselves in those positions. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: Originally Posted By CenterMass762: Originally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By CenterMass762: I've argued against mistreatment and torturing of POWs multiple times in this very thread, a few months back. With that said, I could easily be persuaded to agree in this case. Here’s a datapoint on how the American officer pool feels about torturing/killing prisoners. Pretty much 50/50 on it from this example. -Several years ago (over a decade) I was interviewed by a USN O-6 for a slot. He interviewed quite a few candidates across all branches and a few civilians, was not USN specific. - After the interview was done and the evaluation fixed, he posed a hypothetical. If ordered by a USMC BG in your chain of command, would you kill a prisoner who was a high-value enemy intelligence operative? The reason is that you are about to be overrun and you can not evacuate him w/you. - I was aghast and said no. He asked why, I reiterated the same points as mentioned here for the most part. Afterwards, I asked him what his pool-wide results were across candidates and a few years. He said it was very much 50-50. Would it make me a bad person if my answer isn't a hard no? I could see being okay doing that under certain circumstances. Torturing them, however, would be a hard no from me no matter who's giving the order. I am not saying its right, but I could pull four books off my bookshelves that describe precisely those events taking place, and I can tell you the names of the people who did it. A retired COL described being with the 82nd, he had about a squad, they had a squad of SS prisoners, and they had to exfiltrate through the woods at night or be overrun. If they took them along they'd get jumped. They didnt take the chance. The more you study of history the more you realize its grey. And the more leaders get attached to their men, the more things they are willing to do to keep their people alive. A similar vignette in the 2ID. Another in the 101st. Makes you wonder, hm? That's not a hypothetical, that's what actually happens. I suppose that COL had to ask himself if he took the SS along and one of his men died as a result, could he face the family of the man he lost? At the end of the day, the job has the potential to be impossible. People have breaking points. Physical, moral, mental. In the last modern wars we were rarely in positions that people found themselves in those positions. I recall reading about some Rangers who executed some prisoners at... Point Du Hoc, maybe? I'm pretty sure it was D-Day. It was a similar situation to the one that 82nd COL was in. Something like that is one of those "certain circumstances" I mentioned. There isn't much I wouldn't do if it meant saving the lives of my boys. Yeah, I'd have to live with it but it would be easier to live with than losing guys and knowing I probably could've prevented it. War is heck. |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 8:50:53 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By governmentman: There are numerous geolocated pictures of Ukraine at / holding sections of the P66. RU might hold a few points, but the connection is broken from a logistics use perspective for RU. Russians still active in Lyman are cut off. They lack the ability to break out, and I don't see Russia being able to put together an offensive to come get them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By governmentman: Originally Posted By cryo_tech: My concern is that RU has the P66 highway and is still in Lyman. The ua has burned a lot of men and material here. Gains are good, yes but I don't think they're as good as we think. Hope I'm wrong in my concerns There are numerous geolocated pictures of Ukraine at / holding sections of the P66. RU might hold a few points, but the connection is broken from a logistics use perspective for RU. Russians still active in Lyman are cut off. They lack the ability to break out, and I don't see Russia being able to put together an offensive to come get them. This saves UA troops. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 9/14/2022 8:56:39 AM EDT
[#36]
So the UA has crossed the oskil?
The isw.map had them around kupyansk but not across the river. |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 8:58:21 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stgdz: So the UA has crossed the oskil? The isw.map had them around kupyansk but not across the river. I believe everything is delayed 24-48 hours for operational security. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/14/2022 9:00:58 AM EDT
[#38]
 
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Posted: 9/14/2022 9:07:07 AM EDT
[#39]
Do the Russian loss claim infographics include prisoners taken? Or is that KIA only.
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Posted: 9/14/2022 9:13:29 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: I don't have time to read every page, so apologies if this was already posted.
@R0N Am I right in thinking this is going to be close to the condition of a LOT of Russian artillery tubes for the weeks to come? If they are shooting at the rate reported, we are going to see quite a few tubes needing replacement. The resulta are going to be, loss in max range, severally degraded accuracy and tube failures were guns either explode of their tubes split open. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/14/2022 9:15:30 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flogger23m: People just want the enemies gun. That is the appeal. There is some differences with the barrel I believe, but probably nothing noteworthy. Simply put Russia is attached to the AK and didn't seem to want to build something from scratch. They didn't have the money to buy high end stuff, so they ended up buying low end trash parts and decided to give it a new name. It has become clear Russia was so poorly funded. Not that a rifle makes much of a difference, but it is just another example of how ill equipped Russia was. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flogger23m: Originally Posted By HLS30: Originally Posted By Flogger23m: There are a number of videos on it on Youtube. Essentially it is just an AK-74 with crappy Tapco style plastic on it. Except it might be even worse because the hand guard flexes without needing to heat up. The Zenitco stuff looked much better, as do American made accessories. And then there is something about the safety selector being easier to push out of battery than essentially all other AKs, which makes it even worse than an old AK-74. Essentially it does nothing that slapping on some good accessories onto an old AK won't do better. And if you really want a modern AK, Galil ACE Is probably where it is at. Ive always thought that the AK-12 was a Russian Tapco fucked AK and that it provided nothing better than what's available on the open market. Never understood the appeal. People just want the enemies gun. That is the appeal. There is some differences with the barrel I believe, but probably nothing noteworthy. Simply put Russia is attached to the AK and didn't seem to want to build something from scratch. They didn't have the money to buy high end stuff, so they ended up buying low end trash parts and decided to give it a new name. It has become clear Russia was so poorly funded. Not that a rifle makes much of a difference, but it is just another example of how ill equipped Russia was. And to think people here will pay $6k or more for an AK-12 clone…idiotic. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/14/2022 9:20:56 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Schmigs:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fcm8dGnXgAMsMMs?format=jpg&name=medium Our leadership wouldn’t dare to go that close to a frontline… |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 9:32:27 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: It gets even worse when you add in the question of delivery. How many of their ICBMs will work when called upon? How many of the unknown percentage of functional warheads are being carried by functional missiles? All of which, in my uneducated opinion, adds up to a US ballistic missile defense system that may be far more up to the challenge than alot of people give it credit for. The Russians sure seemed to think it was credible from all the bitching about it they did in the Bush years. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By Circuits: An ongoing question has been about the state of the Russian nuclear arsenal - the US spends ~$60B/yr maintaining its 3750 nuclear weapons. Even with purchasing power parity adjustments, that would consume over half of Russia's entire defense budget, plus Russia has more warheads (5000) to maintain, and a known and notable problem with graft, theft and corruption within its manpower and equipment procurement processes. Not to say all of their bombs will fizzle (produce lower than expected yields) or outright fail, just that some, reportedly fairly large, percentage of their delivery vehicles will malfunction if not produced within the past 10-15 years, and of those that function, some number will probably not perform to expectations. It would be too much to hope that they've hollowed out their forces so completely that none of them will work, so they retain a potent nuclear deterrence force, but just how much of a force it is remains to seen or at least speculated upon. It gets even worse when you add in the question of delivery. How many of their ICBMs will work when called upon? How many of the unknown percentage of functional warheads are being carried by functional missiles? All of which, in my uneducated opinion, adds up to a US ballistic missile defense system that may be far more up to the challenge than alot of people give it credit for. The Russians sure seemed to think it was credible from all the bitching about it they did in the Bush years. Bingo.  All of this effort has been accelerated since the invasion, so the next few years are going to rapidly deterioriate the threat that the Russian and Chinese missiles can pose. |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 9:33:58 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: Our leadership wouldn't dare to go that close to a frontline Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: Originally Posted By Schmigs:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fcm8dGnXgAMsMMs?format=jpg&name=medium Our leadership wouldn't dare to go that close to a frontline Our leadership probably couldn't find the frontline. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/14/2022 9:34:56 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jungatheart: Well said. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jungatheart: Originally Posted By 1Andy2: Their country is frozen by mass hysteria. They literally cannot recognize reality as it is kicking them in the nuts. Even now, they're more concerned with coming up with excuses for failure than solutions for success. Most of them appear to have learned NOTHING from all of this. Despite incurring a hefty bill for their education at 50k dead sons, husbands, fathers, and brothers. And climbing. What lesson have they learned? "We should hit all of the 'hohols' power plants and transformers!" Russian culture is fucking cancer. 80 years of communism ruined anything good about their culture, irrevocably. The only possible reformers have fled the country to start new lives elsewhere and took with them any chance of making Russia better. We talk about a coup to "fix" Russia... fix it with what? They only have more of the same to replace it with. You can't make a government less corrupt than the sum of its constituent members. Well said. I agree. Everyone should re-read what 1Andy2 wrote, and consider this video, which has been previously posted here on Arfcom. Compare it with the second video on “Russian Peace” (Ruski Mir):  MASS PSYCHOSIS - How an Entire Population Becomes MENTALLY ILL  Russian World. Have you heard about it? |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 9:36:36 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Bingo. All of this effort has been accelerated since the invasion, so the next few years are going to rapidly deterioriate the threat that the Russian and Chinese missiles can pose.Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By Circuits: An ongoing question has been about the state of the Russian nuclear arsenal - the US spends ~$60B/yr maintaining its 3750 nuclear weapons. Even with purchasing power parity adjustments, that would consume over half of Russia's entire defense budget, plus Russia has more warheads (5000) to maintain, and a known and notable problem with graft, theft and corruption within its manpower and equipment procurement processes. Not to say all of their bombs will fizzle (produce lower than expected yields) or outright fail, just that some, reportedly fairly large, percentage of their delivery vehicles will malfunction if not produced within the past 10-15 years, and of those that function, some number will probably not perform to expectations. It would be too much to hope that they've hollowed out their forces so completely that none of them will work, so they retain a potent nuclear deterrence force, but just how much of a force it is remains to seen or at least speculated upon. It gets even worse when you add in the question of delivery. How many of their ICBMs will work when called upon? How many of the unknown percentage of functional warheads are being carried by functional missiles? All of which, in my uneducated opinion, adds up to a US ballistic missile defense system that may be far more up to the challenge than alot of people give it credit for. The Russians sure seemed to think it was credible from all the bitching about it they did in the Bush years. Bingo. All of this effort has been accelerated since the invasion, so the next few years are going to rapidly deterioriate the threat that the Russian and Chinese missiles can pose.The war has made me evaluate some of the moduling and sims on various US weapons’ ability to penetrate enemy intergrated defenses that were discounted as they were too optomisitic. |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 9:37:51 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Bingo. All of this effort has been accelerated since the invasion, so the next few years are going to rapidly deterioriate the threat that the Russian and Chinese missiles can pose. |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 9:38:07 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: 1.474 deployed strategic warheads. 1% of that is 15. Can they promise to get California? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By sq40: Only 1-2% of their nuclear weapons need to work and reach their targets to be absolutely devastating to the world in unimaginable ways. 1.474 deployed strategic warheads. 1% of that is 15. Can they promise to get California? It becomes fascinating when you do the math on this stuff. Remember those are just the warheads, and Russia basically put most of it's eggs in one basket, the land part of their nuclear triad, You shoot down a single outdated SS-18, and you may have destroyed 10 warheads. Destroy 10 of those, and 100 potentially capable warheads are gone, and those are mostly all of their 800kt size warheads. Other missiles use the smaller 100kt warheads. |
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Posted: 9/14/2022 9:39:25 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: Our leadership wouldn’t dare to go that close to a frontline… he won't even stand infront of a camera without a script. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/14/2022 9:40:52 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: Do the Russian loss claim infographics include prisoners taken? Or is that KIA only. KIA only. It does not include prisoners or wounded. Normal estimates of the ratio of wounded to KIA vary, and they are only estimates. But conservatively, its often 3 to 1. If that estimate is correct, then over 200,000 of Russia’s available fighting force is dead or wounded. This level of loss helps explain why men aged 18 to 65 (yes, 65), are being grabbed off the streets of DonBass And other occupied territory and forced to fight for the Russians. |
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