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OH, USA
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Posted: 11/12/2022 1:27:31 AM EDT
[#1]
Do we have a timeframe for Ukraine shutting the water off to Crimea?
That's like thing #1 for what happens when Russia loses Kherson, and will be a PR blow equally as bad as losing the oblast itself. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 11/12/2022 1:34:41 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KELBEAST: Kiev was just a feint. Russia is just falling back to pull Ukraine in to a trap. Pls bro |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 1:39:42 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SBR300BLK: Putin's latest masterstroke. A feint to draw them still closer. The old 'We got them right where they want us' maneuver. Well done! |
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USA
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Posted: 11/12/2022 1:46:54 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shockergd: Do we have a timeframe for Ukraine shutting the water off to Crimea? That's like thing #1 for what happens when Russia loses Kherson, and will be a PR blow equally as bad as losing the oblast itself. That isn't controlled in Kherson. It starts in Nova Kakhovka (East of the dam) and runs South, all in RU controlled territory. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 1:49:16 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
But…but…but they won’t have Russia Forever! 
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Posted: 11/12/2022 1:51:11 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johnh57: Its like all the Russian denial jokes you've ever heard are suddenly ratified. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johnh57: Originally Posted By stone-age: It's actually kind of embarrassing to watch the kremlin continue to say land is theirs AS their forces are running away. Its like all the Russian denial jokes you've ever heard are suddenly ratified. Getting their ass kicked out of Kharkiv oblast didn’t stop them from annexing it, either! |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 1:58:39 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lightning_P38: When the Russians came were there civilians on the streets welcoming them? The Ukrainian forces are being met by misty eyed grannies wanting to adopt and feed them, men and women lining up to hug and take pictures with them. Those Russians in hiding won't last long, they will be reported if they are lucky, they will be executed and left in the street for the dogs if they aren't. A guerrilla campaign only works with the strong support of the local population, I doubt the Russians have that in Kherson. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lightning_P38: Originally Posted By gatetraveller: Ukraine needs to use loudspeakers, leaflets, posters, etc... to put out the word that any Russian soldiers in civilian clothing who do not immediately surrender are subject to summary execution in the field for spying. Those Russians in hiding won't last long, they will be reported if they are lucky, they will be executed and left in the street for the dogs if they aren't. A guerrilla campaign only works with the strong support of the local population, I doubt the Russians have that in Kherson. The smart ones will surrender soon and will be treated reasonably. Even if they think they can lay low with a sympathizer, someone will rat them out. I suspect any that attempt a guerrilla war in civilian clothes will not be taken prisoner. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 1:59:22 AM EDT
[#8]
Someone on here mentioned that the Left bank of the Dnipro where the Russians retreated to and dug in is lower in elevation to the Right bank, the Kherson side.
I was just wondering if the Ukraine military had control of the dam and could open the gates (not blow the dam) if the water would flood out the entrenched Russian positions? |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 2:04:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#9]
He mad
 This same Mi-8 was given to us as a trophy at the very beginning of the war. Mi-2, which we got there, were taken out. 2 Mi-8s and several Mi-24s remained at the airfield. This is Chernobaevka, for those who do not understand. And yes, we couldn’t include it in the Armed Forces, because there is no ZhPV and other documentation, it’s old and doesn’t fucking need it, blah blah blah and so on and so forth. We could not. But the fucking crest, he will gladly take him to the ARZ and return him to service. Fuckers who left and did not burn. In a couple of months, several full blocks of B-8 will fall on your heads from it. Damn donkeys, I have no other name for you. https://t.me/NeoficialniyBeZsonoV/19755 
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Posted: 11/12/2022 2:13:09 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Are we on the topic of nonsense? Because I gots some nonsense. Member of the Federation Council: the timing of negotiations between Russia and Ukraine depends on Kiev's Western partners https://tass.ru/politika/16305499 SIMFEROPOL, November 12. /TASS/. Negotiations between Moscow and Kiev will certainly take place, but the timing of their holding depends on the position of Ukraine's partners in the United States and European countries. This was announced on Saturday by TASS member of the Committee on Foreign Affairs of the Federation Council Sergei Tsekov. "Negotiations [between Russia and Ukraine] will definitely happen in the end, but they will be very difficult, very complicated," the source said. - In my opinion, they will only be when Europeans and Americans are "ripe" for this. If they continue to provoke a conflict, there will be no negotiations." To date, according to Tsekov, the achievement of any result following the talks seems unlikely, since Kiev takes an unacceptable position, demanding from Russia the return of lost territories and compensation. "We must remember how the special military operation began. The issues of demilitarization, denazification have not been removed from the agenda," the senator stressed. He added that Moscow would not accept the existence of a Nazi state that would constantly threaten Russia. Earlier, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said that the Russian leadership is still ready to hold talks on Ukraine. He noted that Russia is ready to listen to colleagues from the West if they offer to organize a conversation on the détente of tension, taking into account the interests of Moscow. Press Secretary of the President of the Russian Federation Dmitry Peskov, in turn, expressed the opinion that negotiations on Ukraine should be conducted primarily with Washington. wow they really are living in a fantasy world. 
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Posted: 11/12/2022 2:15:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Jack67]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zam18th: That isn't controlled in Kherson. It starts in Nova Kakhovka (East of the dam) and runs South, all in RU controlled territory. And it isn’t controlled in Nova Kakhovka, either. It’s controlled by a dam in Kalanchak, ~40 miles due south. They built it there in 2014 to cut the canal’s flow to Crimea, but not hinder it in southern Kherson Ob. Ukr will have to: -capture Nova Kakhovka dam and city, on the left bank. -establish a secure bridgehead on the left bank of sufficient depth to allow engineers to build a new dam. - defend that bridgehead on a 180 degree front, with the canal bisecting the bridgehead. -the canal origin is about a mile or so from the existing dam, in the southern most corner of the reservoir. This isn’t going to be easy or very quick. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 2:36:19 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: And it isn’t controlled in Nova Kakhovka, either. It’s controlled by a dam in Kalanchak, ~40 miles due south. They built it there in 2014 to cut the canal’s flow to Crimea, but not hinder it in southern Kherson Ob. Ukr will have to: -capture Nova Kakhovka dam and city, on the left bank. -establish a secure bridgehead on the left bank of sufficient depth to allow engineers to build a new dam. - defend that bridgehead on a 180 degree front, with the canal bisecting the bridgehead. -the canal origin is about a mile or so from the existing dam, in the southern most corner of the reservoir. This isn’t going to be easy or very quick. What is the structure across the canal between Nova Kakhova and Tavriisk? Its not far from the reservoir and looks like a dam. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 2:52:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Jack67]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PMB1086: What is the structure across the canal between Nova Kakhova and Tavriisk? Its not far from the reservoir and looks like a dam. As far as I can find, only bridges (I could be wrong). The dam to block it in Kalanchak is an impromptu affair. It isn’t an enormous task to block the canal, but you need to be safe from indirect fire. This is building it in 2014:  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 2:57:20 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: I'm sure they have and they are probably going to look for another way across. Planning Questions: How many boats do the Ukrainians have? What is their capacity for the first lift? How many can they move per boat? How resilient are these boats against artillery? (doubtful) How heavy are they? How do they get moved? What trucks move them? Are the trucks able to move across muddy terrain? How well can you hide the trucks? Once the Ukrainians get infantry across the river, are there spare boats to move supplies in addition to troops? How can the Ukrainians get tanks and iron across the river? Will the Russians blow the bridges? How much equipment do the Ukrainians have to repair bridges? How vulnerable are the dams? Can the Russians wreck them? Once the Ukrainian infantry get across the river, what do the Russian defenses look like? Are there tank capable ferries? How many? How much experience do the Ukrainians have at this task? How often do they practice it? Can you parachute in? Air Assault? Conclusion: Highly likely the Kherson Dneiper front becomes a quiet sector in a few weeks. If they push across and the Russians fall back, IF that happens, then the end is near and collapse is imminent. Pushing south is so complex across that blue line that if it works, the Russians are collapsing. Ill be very surprised if the main effort doesn't shift east. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: Originally Posted By Lightning_P38: Originally Posted By JG_Wentworth: what is Ukraines plan for crossing the river to continue its advance south? are they planning to build a permanent bridge crossing?I I'm sure they have and they are probably going to look for another way across. Planning Questions: How many boats do the Ukrainians have? What is their capacity for the first lift? How many can they move per boat? How resilient are these boats against artillery? (doubtful) How heavy are they? How do they get moved? What trucks move them? Are the trucks able to move across muddy terrain? How well can you hide the trucks? Once the Ukrainians get infantry across the river, are there spare boats to move supplies in addition to troops? How can the Ukrainians get tanks and iron across the river? Will the Russians blow the bridges? How much equipment do the Ukrainians have to repair bridges? How vulnerable are the dams? Can the Russians wreck them? Once the Ukrainian infantry get across the river, what do the Russian defenses look like? Are there tank capable ferries? How many? How much experience do the Ukrainians have at this task? How often do they practice it? Can you parachute in? Air Assault? Conclusion: Highly likely the Kherson Dneiper front becomes a quiet sector in a few weeks. If they push across and the Russians fall back, IF that happens, then the end is near and collapse is imminent. Pushing south is so complex across that blue line that if it works, the Russians are collapsing. Ill be very surprised if the main effort doesn't shift east. I think the immediate future of the Kherson front depends on the Nova Kharkova Dam Bridge. If the UA can restore that (under some degree of Russian fire) then an offensive can continue in the south. I don’t think we have that information yet. Even if it can happen, it will probably be after weeks of HIMARS tap-dancing on Russian arty and logistics. The UA would have to force all Russian arty away from the bridgehead. In the short term, it does seem likely that that focus of both sides will shift elsewhere - either Zaporizhia, Bakhmut, or Svatove. First, it is likely that Ukrainian and NATO combined intel will identify where Russian troop movements are going. There will not be a surprise attack of the Russians that escaped Kherson If Russia believes itself capable of further offensive operations, Bahkmut is the obvious play. It may also be a politically attractive play to show progress after the Kherson disaster. That said, Bakhmut is a favorable situation for Ukraine to commit modest forces and cause high Russian casualties. Even if the Russians committed the entire 40K troops from Kherson to attack Bakhmut, the UA could commit 20-40K to successfully defend it, and still have 60-80K quality troops to use elsewhere. My opinion is that Ukraine will commit whatever troops it needs to hold Bakhmut because it has the luxury to do so while still having troops left over to execute an offensive elsewhere. It is also a political imperative to prevent more of Ukraine (including particularly valuable industrial territory) falling to Russia. If Russia seriously tries to take it, it will simply turn into an even bigger meatgrinder. The shouldn’t be able to take it, but they can probably turn it into Verdun 2022. If the Russian situation is worse than we understand, and they make objective military decisions on that basis, the Russians shouldn’t continue to attack Bakhmut. They should play defensively and protect 1)approaches to Crimea and 2)Approaches to the northern flank of the LPR. The safest play for the Russians is to defend against an attack from the east bank of the Dnepr toward Crimea or the coast. Crimea is the objective they absolutely cannot lose. How Russian moves develop in the next few weeks should tell us some valuable information. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 3:01:40 AM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 11/12/2022 3:07:52 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SoCalExile: Drone drop. This is a rough one:
Objectively, seen worse. I hope he didn't suffer long and found forgiveness. |
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USA
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Posted: 11/12/2022 3:14:47 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: As far as I can find, only bridges (I could be wrong). The dam to block it in Kalanchak is an impromptu affair. It isn't an enormous task to block the canal, but you need to be safe from indirect fire. This is building it in 2014: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/556465/61C8957D-F771-4F56-BE94-51A3CE251173_jpe-2597160.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By PMB1086: What is the structure across the canal between Nova Kakhova and Tavriisk? Its not far from the reservoir and looks like a dam. As far as I can find, only bridges (I could be wrong). The dam to block it in Kalanchak is an impromptu affair. It isn't an enormous task to block the canal, but you need to be safe from indirect fire. This is building it in 2014: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/556465/61C8957D-F771-4F56-BE94-51A3CE251173_jpe-2597160.JPG I think there needs to be some kind of control structure where the canal begins in order to keep the flow steady as the reservoir level rises and falls. But yeah, that would not be an easy undertaking. Russia will anticipate that and make it even more difficult. Sure would be nice to even further stress their logistics by making them bring in water though. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 3:17:48 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/114465/FaT-BeOXEAI2Q5Q_jpg-2596384.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhRsxn3XEAAclYK?format=png&name=small I’ll have you know, you made me expel beer through my nose, sir! 
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Posted: 11/12/2022 3:24:26 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Objectively, seen worse. I hope he didn't suffer long and found forgiveness. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 3:29:12 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zam18th: I think there needs to be some kind of control structure where the canal begins in order to keep the flow steady as the reservoir level rises and falls. But yeah, that would not be an easy undertaking. Russia will anticipate that and make it even more difficult. Sure would be nice to even further stress their logistics by making them bring in water though. Or they do that with the main dam? They were designed at the same time to work together, and of the canal pics I have reviewed, it is pretty high-banked. There is also a control station in northern Crimea. It is a pump complex that lifts the water so it flows further south to Simferopol and Kerch. So it can also be used to control the level. The dam and canal are considered together as one of the official “Great Construction Projects of Communism” (yawn). That means I guess it got a postage stamp and onto this list: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Construction_Projects_of_Communism |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 3:29:28 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By weptek911: I can’t remember the city but I think it was Kherson where the Russians were met with protests and townsfolk telling them in Russian that they weren’t being oppressed and there were no Nazis. And who can forget the bababushka that told the Russian soldier to fill his pockets with sunflower seeds so at least his corpse could do some good? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By weptek911: Originally Posted By Lightning_P38: When the Russians came were there civilians on the streets welcoming them? The Ukrainian forces are being met by misty eyed grannies wanting to adopt and feed them, men and women lining up to hug and take pictures with them. Those Russians in hiding won't last long, they will be reported if they are lucky, they will be executed and left in the street for the dogs if they aren't. A guerrilla campaign only works with the strong support of the local population, I doubt the Russians have that in Kherson. I can’t remember the city but I think it was Kherson where the Russians were met with protests and townsfolk telling them in Russian that they weren’t being oppressed and there were no Nazis. And who can forget the bababushka that told the Russian soldier to fill his pockets with sunflower seeds so at least his corpse could do some good?  Russian Troops Open Fire On Ukrainian Protesters In Kherson |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 3:37:44 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: That was exactly my thinking as well. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: Originally Posted By Charging_Handle: Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: Zelensy sends a positive message and thanks to the US and US troops on Veterans Day.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XGnkdwrZboIt is nice to actually be appreciated by a nation we are trying to help for a change. This is refreshing after spending 20 years trying to unfuck the Middle East and being hated by the very people we were trying to assist. That was exactly my thinking as well. It’s an extraordinary moment of moral clarity after 30 years of “now why the fuck are we doing this?” Ukraine benefits - a lot. We benefit. Europe benefits. Our mutual enemy loses - a lot. Fuck Russia until they straighten their own shit out, It’s out finest moment since 1945. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 3:40:03 AM EDT
[#23]
 Ukraine War: Wrong Lessons @TheChieftainsHatch |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 3:53:25 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AndrewS: This is the part that I am thinking about. Previously the North Crimean Canal was damed at Kalanchak which is ~10mi from Crimea and ~80mi from the Dnipro river that feeds it. This was done after Russia took Crimea and is a large part of why Russia invaded again. It was costing them billions to truck water in across the Kerch bridge which is something they can no longer do. They would have to truck through Mariupol which is a much longer distance. Would it be feasible to strike this man made canal with artillery somewhere along that 80mi stretch to create a flooding or a blockage of some sort to disrupt Crimea's water supply again? Or will they have to cross and seize land on the other side of the Dnipro and dam it again? Obviously Russia currently occupies the area and could deploy resources to fix it but that divides resources and creates new target opportunities which could aid in crossing. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AndrewS: Originally Posted By Dominion21: As a thought-exercise, it’s useful to exhaust ideas which are unworkable. That reduces options to: 1) conventional river crossing by boat, and head on attack against 3 layers of prepared defenses, or 2) a flanking maneuver Both involve significant challenges for the UA. Personally, I hope they find a way to finish off the Kerch straight bridge, shut off the water to Crimea, and allow time to take its toll on the Russians, siege-style. Springtime planting season will be particularly tough on occupied Crimea without water from Kherson. This is the part that I am thinking about. Previously the North Crimean Canal was damed at Kalanchak which is ~10mi from Crimea and ~80mi from the Dnipro river that feeds it. This was done after Russia took Crimea and is a large part of why Russia invaded again. It was costing them billions to truck water in across the Kerch bridge which is something they can no longer do. They would have to truck through Mariupol which is a much longer distance. Would it be feasible to strike this man made canal with artillery somewhere along that 80mi stretch to create a flooding or a blockage of some sort to disrupt Crimea's water supply again? Or will they have to cross and seize land on the other side of the Dnipro and dam it again? Obviously Russia currently occupies the area and could deploy resources to fix it but that divides resources and creates new target opportunities which could aid in crossing. So if Russia invaded Ukraine the second time because Ukraine cut off water because Russia invaded the first time, why did Russia invade Ukraine the first time? (This is a trick question.) |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 3:55:19 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NE223: Stuck at home for a couple of days so yesterday I watched some of the appearances by Scott Ritter and Doug Macgregor on Judge Napolitano's show. It was a trip into some alternate universe.where up is down, the Russians are invincible and Ukraine is losing every battle.  Of the 2 Ritter seems the most out of touch with reality, going on and on about the winter offensive that will take place toward the end of December - first of January when 200,000 troops currently being trained in Russia show up on the front. Scott evidently doesn't realize a significant number of those 200,000 are in eternal rest in the mud of Kherson. It is interesting to me that these two and others have no problem at all believing every bit of bullshit that comes out of Russia while paying no attention to reports from dozens of news outlets worldwide. I realize Ukraine is putting its own spin on things but often those are verified by other sources. Are these two paid? Have they been promised a farm in Donetsk? What the hell is going on? Ritter I understand. He’s compromised. Napolitano kind of shocks me. I used to respect him. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:10:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#26]
">10 KIA".
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:16:21 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SFguy: Welcome to the board. Now going to click ignore because this is complete garbage. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SFguy: Originally Posted By catu_rix68: It bears some comprehension, that this world is in material communication with the rest of the universe. Evidence for life being widespread and common grows stronger. Even staying within known physics, someone need only have gotten here, anywhere in this galaxy a million years before us to have spread across its entirety. How many billions of years old do the currently fashionable cosmologies posit the universe is? What if someone got here several billion before us? What could this conflict mean to them? If indeed galactic civilization is mostly heterogeneous and varied, and I believe it likely is across genetic, cultural, technological, astrophysical, organizational, and other lines, what portion among them would take an interest in us and why? Having moved on from beer to scotch, I’ll have you know you almost made me expel scotch through my nose. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:20:34 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SoCalExile:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhUCxRxXoBExPtF?format=png&name=small So…what are Ukrainians feeling? Oh yeah, there are no such things as Ukrainians. Ukrainians are Russians whom we haven’t killed enough of to convince them they’re actually Russians. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:26:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Easterner]
[#29]
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USA
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:31:12 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Or they do that with the main dam? They were designed at the same time to work together, and of the canal pics I have reviewed, it is pretty high-banked. There is also a control station in northern Crimea. It is a pump complex that lifts the water so it flows further south to Simferopol and Kerch. So it can also be used to control the level. The dam and canal are considered together as one of the official "Great Construction Projects of Communism" (yawn). That means I guess it got a postage stamp and onto this list: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Construction_Projects_of_Communism Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By Zam18th: I think there needs to be some kind of control structure where the canal begins in order to keep the flow steady as the reservoir level rises and falls. But yeah, that would not be an easy undertaking. Russia will anticipate that and make it even more difficult. Sure would be nice to even further stress their logistics by making them bring in water though. Or they do that with the main dam? They were designed at the same time to work together, and of the canal pics I have reviewed, it is pretty high-banked. There is also a control station in northern Crimea. It is a pump complex that lifts the water so it flows further south to Simferopol and Kerch. So it can also be used to control the level. The dam and canal are considered together as one of the official "Great Construction Projects of Communism" (yawn). That means I guess it got a postage stamp and onto this list: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Construction_Projects_of_Communism Anyway, I found this where the canal starts. Definitely some kind of control structure.  |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:33:19 AM EDT
[#31]
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IRL
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:39:01 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easterner: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/IMG_20221112_094231_jpg-2597184.JPG |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:41:10 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zam18th: I guess that's possible but I think it would unnecessarily complicate it and handcuff them. Anyway, I found this where the canal starts. Definitely some kind of control structure. https://i.imgur.com/EbVTWML.png Ok, there it is. I found that on a map but no sat view, unable to tell if it was bridges, or… So instead of piling sandbags, they have to seize that an defend it, without the Russians blowing it first (in which case, more sandbags). It’s here, about 1.5 miles from the dam proper. They would have to cross and hold the bridgehead.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 4:42:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Schmigs: How many days since 70k? Correction: Crossed over 70,000 on 29Oct- exactly two weeks. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:01:21 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: LoL, he is literally calling for a dictatorship of the proletariat. Literally. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By SoCalExile:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhUCxRxXoBExPtF?format=png&name=small LoL, he is literally calling for a dictatorship of the proletariat. Literally. Given his overt politics I disagree. Dugin is identifying himself as a literal Nazi - a national socialist, or an economic socialist where the nation-state (Russia) is supreme, with a traditional absolute monarch in the tsarist form. The rhetoric (if not always the reality) of communism and the USSR was internationalist and universalist, although i will be the first to say that in most cases this was rhetoric and not reality. Communism in the USSR was always Russian Imperialism by another name. Universalism was a useful concept for communist advances overseas. It’s actually a very interesting public statement and worthy of examination by smarter people than me. Dugin combines some truly ancient political ideas with - IMO - a revenge play for his daughter’s death. There are some interesting parallels between Dugin’s antiquarian fascism and the antiquarian movements that were a part of the rise of fascism in Germany - romanticizing the distant teutonic past to justify national socialism in the present. Dugina was (IMO) an FSB plot with Putin’s blessing. Dugin, who is an academic with no real power, can only hope that a true believer in his brand of Russian fascist ideology will obey his implied command. I don't think its a totally ridiculous assumption. Russia is in a catastrophic situation entirely due to Putin’s stupidity, and Putin’s self-serving propaganda aside, many inside Russia must know this. Hence the threat - absolute power, absolute responsibility. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:06:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Easterner]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Schmigs: How many days since 70k? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Schmigs: Originally Posted By Easterner: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/IMG_20221112_094231_jpg-2597184.JPG As stated 2 weeks.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:10:47 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: At least 3 tacticians that have been correct in the past are saying this is the next step in 4 to 6 weeks.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhUYfjMUAAMGawu?format=jpg&name=large I agree. Only questions are 1)can the Russians foresee this and 2)can they stop it? |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:19:32 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Arminius: That´s what I wonder: IF there were 100.000 Ukrainians fighting on the west side of the Dnjepr, and onyl 25.000 Russians there, why was there no significant land gain for SIX weeks??? Hermann Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Arminius: Originally Posted By sq40: I think from ChargingHandle: The Ukrainians have committed something like 100,000 troops to taking Kherson. Now that the force of 25,000 Russians have been forcefully evicted from Kherson and the bridges across the river destroyed, a huge chunk of those 100,000 Ukrainian troops will now also be freed up to be deployed to other sectors. If Russia sends most of those 25,000 to Bakhmut, I would imagine Ukraine could send 75,000 or so troops from the Kherson area to meet them. Russia isn't getting back across the river in the Kherson area, so there will no longer be any reason for Ukraine to keep such a large force tied down defending it. That´s what I wonder: IF there were 100.000 Ukrainians fighting on the west side of the Dnjepr, and onyl 25.000 Russians there, why was there no significant land gain for SIX weeks??? Hermann Because competent dug-in troops can always make it hard on the attackers. |
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NZL
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:38:03 AM EDT
[#39]
Worth keeping an eye out for an attack on the dam. Either that or the orcs plan to retreat even further...
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:50:44 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhTMtOAWQAAw2QO?format=jpg&name=large So…whose hands are the blood of the 100,000+ Ukrainian dead on? Oh yeah…they aren’t people… 
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Posted: 11/12/2022 5:56:07 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Are we on the topic of nonsense? Because I gots some nonsense. Member of the Federation Council: the timing of negotiations between Russia and Ukraine depends on Kiev's Western partners https://tass.ru/politika/16305499 SIMFEROPOL, November 12. /TASS/. Negotiations between Moscow and Kiev will certainly take place, but the timing of their holding depends on the position of Ukraine's partners in the United States and European countries. This was announced on Saturday by TASS member of the Committee on Foreign Affairs of the Federation Council Sergei Tsekov. "Negotiations [between Russia and Ukraine] will definitely happen in the end, but they will be very difficult, very complicated," the source said. - In my opinion, they will only be when Europeans and Americans are "ripe" for this. If they continue to provoke a conflict, there will be no negotiations." To date, according to Tsekov, the achievement of any result following the talks seems unlikely, since Kiev takes an unacceptable position, demanding from Russia the return of lost territories and compensation. "We must remember how the special military operation began. The issues of demilitarization, denazification have not been removed from the agenda," the senator stressed. He added that Moscow would not accept the existence of a Nazi state that would constantly threaten Russia. Earlier, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said that the Russian leadership is still ready to hold talks on Ukraine. He noted that Russia is ready to listen to colleagues from the West if they offer to organize a conversation on the détente of tension, taking into account the interests of Moscow. Press Secretary of the President of the Russian Federation Dmitry Peskov, in turn, expressed the opinion that negotiations on Ukraine should be conducted primarily with Washington. Still don’t think Russia and their quislings quite get it. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 6:24:15 AM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 11/12/2022 6:24:49 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Given his overt politics I disagree. Dugin is identifying himself as a literal Nazi - a national socialist, or an economic socialist where the nation-state (Russia) is supreme, with a traditional absolute monarch in the tsarist form. The rhetoric (if not always the reality) of communism and the USSR was internationalist and universalist, although i will be the first to say that in most cases this was rhetoric and not reality. Communism in the USSR was always Russian Imperialism by another name. Universalism was a useful concept for communist advances overseas. It’s actually a very interesting public statement and worthy of examination by smarter people than me. Dugin combines some truly ancient political ideas with - IMO - a revenge play for his daughter’s death. There are some interesting parallels between Dugin’s antiquarian fascism and the antiquarian movements that were a part of the rise of fascism in Germany - romanticizing the distant teutonic past to justify national socialism in the present. Dugina was (IMO) an FSB plot with Putin’s blessing. Dugin, who is an academic with no real power, can only hope that a true believer in his brand of Russian fascist ideology will obey his implied command. I don't think its a totally ridiculous assumption. Russia is in a catastrophic situation entirely due to Putin’s stupidity, and Putin’s self-serving propaganda aside, many inside Russia must know this. Hence the threat - absolute power, absolute responsibility. Dugin is literally calling for a populist commisar and dictatorship. It’s not vague or an illusion. The “Soviet Russia was just imperialist Russia…” concept is getting a little overcooked. It’s very useful and in some areas applicable, but not across the board. There were genuine and sincere efforts to end absolute authoritarianism and a long line of men fought that corner seriously -and many losing their lives to Stalin n the process. Notably Kamenev, Trotsky, and Zinoviev. I also immediately felt this was a dagger aimed directly at Putin, a blatant call to arms against him - personally motivated or sincerely public, we don’t know clearly but it could be either, or both. Regrettably, way too late this hour to engage in this deeply enough. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 6:30:33 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryLots of Russian goodwill there! |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 7:00:50 AM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 11/12/2022 7:03:59 AM EDT
[#46]
Does anyone know what the conditions are like for civilians in the city of Luhansk?
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Posted: 11/12/2022 7:06:11 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: It's actually kind of embarrassing to watch the kremlin continue to say land is theirs AS their forces are running away. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Originally Posted By CS223: Until UA takes Moscow.... It's actually kind of embarrassing to watch the kremlin continue to say land is theirs AS their forces are running away. Moscow every day;  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 7:06:37 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: As this threat goes towards the 3000 pages and the Russians have been kicked out of Kherson I would like to thank the news updaters/analists, @AlmightyTallest @Prime @Fadesun @ARokie @M35ben @Ryan_Scott @Ryan_Ruck @Joszi @Eastener @CPT_CAVEMAN And any others I forgot for making this the single best and most comprehensive news/analisis source in this war. Unlike what parts of GD think this war wil be pretty much defining for the world for a long time and it's of the utmost importance that Russia is not allowed to get away with their actions because of the consequensea that will entail not only for Ukraine. It's been a weird time were (I was genuinly supprised by this) 'conservative gun owners' would prefere to be aligned with Russia, NORKs, Iran, Syria, Zimbawe, commie Cuba, Venezuela ect. over the US and Western world. Most of the time the argumets don't even make sense in a 'having logical thought pattern' type way or are just repeated from know Russian sources as ghospel. Anyway I'l give a round of applause for the above posters who brought the bad and the good news over the last 3k pages Mega dittos. |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 7:43:29 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PMB1086: Does anyone know what the conditions are like for civilians in the city of Luhansk? Not a lot of news comes out of there. It was quiet for a while, Donetsk gets all the attention. It's not great, I'm sure.  |
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Posted: 11/12/2022 7:47:16 AM EDT
[#50]
 
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