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Posted: 12/6/2022 7:54:18 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eat_Beef: You're talking about giving away public money in hopes of private companies making a private profit. How conservative. Or do you think that the taxes on future EXTRA sales will more than make up for what we're giving away now? That would be awesome, but please show your math. I'm all for Ukraine getting saved and Russia getting torched, but let's not pretend this is a financial windfall.  “Priming the pump” in economic terms is NOT conservative or liberal - it’s just economics. Tested and proven. Labeling it one way or the other is a red herring. Even if there’s, oh let’s say 50% break-even on arm sales world-wide vs. donated to Ukraine, it’s still going to be a massive windfall in the long run from: - multiplier effect of activity in the US economy from increased production - increased long-term trade activity from sales (downstream maintenance contracts, etc.) - increased unrelated economic activity from a more secure global trade environment - reinforcement of the USD as the global reserve currency Plus, it’s the correct moral and legal thing to do, so there’s that. If someone complains about the cost to the US, show them our total budget outlays for welfare spending/transfer payments, and then hand them a catalog of a local community college with a decent macroeconomics course. To bottom line it, it starts with this:  Attached File(Source: visegrad 24 via twitter) |
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Posted: 12/6/2022 7:56:00 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: (But wait...there's more) Czech Company Modernizes Tanks For Ukraine With The Help Of Refugees  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_hqsKEiDjcI applied for a job there last March |
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USA
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Posted: 12/6/2022 7:58:28 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Originally Posted By Flogger23m: It has a lot to do with production time and localized production. South Korea claims they can have tanks delivered to Poland this year. I suppose we'll see if that happens. Today: https://i.imgur.com/Qbdfd7A.jpg First 10 K2 Black Panther MBT and 24 K9A1 thunder SPH arrived to port in Gdynia, Poland. @Flogger23m There we go. Looks like their decision was right. Big improvement over the T-72s they've given away. I know they're buying M1A1s from us. If we can get those there soon maybe they can offload the rest of the T-72s to Ukraine. |
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Posted: 12/6/2022 8:21:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CMOS: UKR is on my bucket list now also . . . . . CMOS Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CMOS: Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By weptek911: I've never wanted to visit a foreign country in my life as much as I'd like to see a post victory Ukraine. Same. UKR is on my bucket list now also . . . . . CMOS Cola Warrior: Sunflower Fields  Heck, even an ARF meet up in Ukraine would be pretty epic. My FIL can arrange a trip to the skeet field and "carbine" range. My MIL spoke with friend of FIL who delivered some of the supplies we collected in Team to an element of the 36th Marine Brigade in the Donetsk Oblast (he said I could say where but I'll refrain from specifics). The were originally in Kherson, but moved over after the Russians retreated. This is now the 3rd time they have been formed up, as they were one of the original units in Mariupol and all but destroyed. Mostly young and/or green soldiers. Said they believe they are outnumbered in this area 8:1, but the Russians are just doing non organized charges again and again. The merino wool socks and thermals were very much appreciated as none of the soldiers had what was proper for their situation. I couldn't imagine being in that mud with cotton socks. It sounds like they are doing good rotations, keeping the troops on the front fresh. I have heard from someone else they do 1 week on the first line of contact, then 2 in the rear. They sent me a video of their drive in from inside the HMMWV, and I was very easily able to geolocate the exact road they drove in on, so I won't share that. They said these photos are all safe to share. I asked if they wanted their faces blurred and the response was "No, show the world the defenders of Ukraine." They are no more than 3 miles from Russian positions. They send thanks to everyone who donated    Thank you messages  Bag of wool socks/thermals/beanies from ARF       |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 12/6/2022 8:31:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Saw this picture and wondered what the story was, though it obviously wasn’t good. All things considered it doesn’t appear terrible. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203719/A7EAE446-0ABC-4862-83CC-2A713BE6CE47-2626235.jpg Head wound, one of my workers got a big gash on his scalp and it was real thick almost clumpy blood dripping on the floor, like on that vest. Bosses son did not like wearing his hard hat. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 12/6/2022 8:40:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: They are much more stealthy and made specifically to go after the most modern and well defended capital ships our enemy has. They have A.I. to plan their own route to avoid radar on the way in and can target specific areas of a ship, like the bridge and magazines. You should not have to spam them. You can use Naval strike missiles and Tomahawk Block 5's for other ships. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: In terms of whether Ukraine is impinging on the US Ability to fuck the Chicoms over Taiwan, the answer appears to be the opposite - its leading to an across the board increase in munitions purchases. US now looking to purchase over 1,100 JASSM/LRASM air launched stealth cruise missiles per year:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjM0Jh-UoAEg4Ea?format=jpg&name=large Likely other long range precision fires weapons will be bumped up as well:
This is just one project, but this is another clue to the kind of stuff is happening all across the board regarding precision weapons and other military systems being manufactured. They originally wanted 210 LRASM's by 2025, but we are already years ahead of schedule for meeting that deadline, and apparently we're going to make more than they thought.  Awesome  I imagine the B21 + LRASM will pair nicely. Obviously specs are secret. But is the expectation that these will reliably make it through a modern ships defenses pretty easily, or do we still need shitloads of them to spam their AA defenses until they run out of AA missiles? They are much more stealthy and made specifically to go after the most modern and well defended capital ships our enemy has. They have A.I. to plan their own route to avoid radar on the way in and can target specific areas of a ship, like the bridge and magazines. You should not have to spam them. You can use Naval strike missiles and Tomahawk Block 5's for other ships. Spectacular, thank you. |
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Posted: 12/6/2022 8:55:50 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Cola Warrior: Sunflower Fields Heck, even an ARF meet up in Ukraine would be pretty epic. My FIL can arrange a trip to the skeet field and "carbine" range. My MIL spoke with friend of FIL who delivered some of the supplies we collected in Team to an element of the 36th Marine Brigade in the Donetsk Oblast (he said I could say where but I'll refrain from specifics). The were originally in Kherson, but moved over after the Russians retreated. This is now the 3rd time they have been formed up, as they were one of the original units in Mariupol and all but destroyed. Mostly young and/or green soldiers. Said they believe they are outnumbered in this area 8:1, but the Russians are just doing non organized charges again and again. The merino wool socks and thermals were very much appreciated as none of the soldiers had what was proper for their situation. I couldn't imagine being in that mud with cotton socks. It sounds like they are doing good rotations, keeping the troops on the front fresh. I have heard from someone else they do 1 week on the first line of contact, then 2 in the rear. They sent me a video of their drive in from inside the HMMWV, and I was very easily able to geolocate the exact road they drove in on, so I won't share that. They said these photos are all safe to share. I asked if they wanted their faces blurred and the response was "No, show the world the defenders of Ukraine." They are no more than 3 miles from Russian positions. They send thanks to everyone who donated https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184365/feda8bb2--2626333.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184365/f89d2602--2626332.jpg Thank you messages https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184365/b34e6a8b--2626331.jpg Bag of wool socks/thermals/beanies from ARF https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184365/53035837--2626330.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184365/96fd27e5--2626329.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184365/64cd0243--2626328.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184365/6ef5adc9--2626327.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184365/6b9d532d--2626326.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184365/4ffeea10--2626325.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By CMOS: Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By weptek911: I've never wanted to visit a foreign country in my life as much as I'd like to see a post victory Ukraine. Same. UKR is on my bucket list now also . . . . . CMOS Cola Warrior: Sunflower Fields Heck, even an ARF meet up in Ukraine would be pretty epic. My FIL can arrange a trip to the skeet field and "carbine" range. My MIL spoke with friend of FIL who delivered some of the supplies we collected in Team to an element of the 36th Marine Brigade in the Donetsk Oblast (he said I could say where but I'll refrain from specifics). The were originally in Kherson, but moved over after the Russians retreated. This is now the 3rd time they have been formed up, as they were one of the original units in Mariupol and all but destroyed. Mostly young and/or green soldiers. Said they believe they are outnumbered in this area 8:1, but the Russians are just doing non organized charges again and again. The merino wool socks and thermals were very much appreciated as none of the soldiers had what was proper for their situation. I couldn't imagine being in that mud with cotton socks. It sounds like they are doing good rotations, keeping the troops on the front fresh. I have heard from someone else they do 1 week on the first line of contact, then 2 in the rear. They sent me a video of their drive in from inside the HMMWV, and I was very easily able to geolocate the exact road they drove in on, so I won't share that. They said these photos are all safe to share. I asked if they wanted their faces blurred and the response was "No, show the world the defenders of Ukraine." They are no more than 3 miles from Russian positions. They send thanks to everyone who donated https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184365/feda8bb2--2626333.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184365/f89d2602--2626332.jpg Thank you messages https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184365/b34e6a8b--2626331.jpg Bag of wool socks/thermals/beanies from ARF https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184365/53035837--2626330.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184365/96fd27e5--2626329.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184365/64cd0243--2626328.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184365/6ef5adc9--2626327.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184365/6b9d532d--2626326.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184365/4ffeea10--2626325.jpg This is always great to see, thanks for keeping us updated on the aid getting to the front. |
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Posted: 12/6/2022 8:58:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CharlieR]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flogger23m: It has a lot to do with production time and localized production. South Korea claims they can have tanks delivered to Poland this year. I suppose we'll see if that happens. The next part is they will eventually be built in Poland. Poland wants to kickstart their own arms industry. They already do some stuff but clearly want to do everything. Co-producing tanks is a good way to get started. I recall that we are sending the M1117 to Ukraine. How does this compare to the M113 in terms of armor and carrying capacity? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/M1117_Armored_Security_Vehicle.jpg Obviously I assume wheels are better on road and worse off road. Just wondering how these will be used and what role they do. At least the turret is protected. M1117 is a tin can. Outside of the two crew in the front and the gunner, I think it can carry one or maybe two pax. Getting in and out through the door sucks. An RPG-7 will raise havoc. Crosscountry mobility in snow is very poor. The gunner has a 3x day only sight, and you can dump a lot of .50 and mark19 on someone, better then a humvee. But reloading the ammo is also slow and painful. It is an MP vehicle that was useful for convoy security in rear areas. An MATV with a CROWS mount is far better. It is basically obsolete. An M113 is tracked, better cross country mobility, can carry a squad and they can get on and off quickly. Also wont take a hit from an RPG. Not really a fighting vehicle, more of a taxi and I would drop off the dismounts behind cover, at least 500m back, and let them walk in. Can carry lots of stuff. You *could* mount lots of weapons on it, like .50, mark19, 7.62MGs, but its armor is, in the modern world, very thin and its more of a taxi. It can reload belts faster then an M1117. One is a crosscountry uber for grunts and you want to keep it out of trouble, the other is a not very useful convoy security truck. |
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Posted: 12/6/2022 9:20:29 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Today: Korea has indeed started deliveries. Whether for show or for dough remains to be seen, but Poland ordering over 1200 MBTs from western-aligned powers, along with 220 HIMARS, and F-35s means they're serious. Dead. Fucking. Serious. Let's see Russians, or anyone, make a Polack joke in the late 2020s. Maybe I need to buy some Polish vodka and find me a Polish gal to make babies with. |
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Posted: 12/6/2022 9:24:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: FN F2000. Its a modernized, forward ejecting AUG basically, built with a completely sealed action making it largely impervious to mud. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qQ0ubEgu-gIt was designed to pair with a 40mm grenade launcher and computerized smart scope, which would be powered with a battery inside the rifles stock. Sort of a "OICW Lite" - sadly this genius combo was not adopted by anyone. https://i.ibb.co/njXK0tP/download-4.jpg Tactical Tuna converts to Strategic Sailfish. It was a neat idea for the time. |
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Posted: 12/6/2022 9:26:38 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 12/6/2022 9:30:48 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 12/6/2022 9:44:59 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: Korea has indeed started deliveries. Whether for show or for dough remains to be seen, but Poland ordering over 1200 MBTs from western-aligned powers, along with 220 HIMARS, and F-35s means they're serious. Dead. Fucking. Serious. Let's see Russians, or anyone, make a Polack joke in the late 2020s. Maybe I need to buy some Polish vodka and find me a Polish gal to make babies with. How many Polacks does it take to level Moscow? 
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USA
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Posted: 12/6/2022 10:12:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Be perfect for you. I've lurked long enough to see your work.
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Posted: 12/6/2022 10:22:31 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: I get the distinct impression the russians who have any idea of what is going on, are pretty scared of what nato definitely is going to do if russia uses a nuke. And now that they have been at war with Ukraine, they no longer have any doubt of how badly nato will humiliate them. They would no longer have enough of a military to defend themselves, there would be a civil war, and it would be very violent as the average people take revenge on all of the government people and their family members. <That will never happen. Most Russians support Putin, they believe his lies and are probably incensed with rage that their bases were hit, the exact same way we would feel if we got hit. Pearl Harbor wasn't even a State when Japan bombed us. America went to War! |
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Posted: 12/6/2022 10:29:34 PM EDT
[#17]
Not sure when this happened.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/zegbsi/ukrainian_fighter_pilot_karaya_gives_a_thumb_up/  Attached FilePilots insta https://www.instagram.com/___karaya___/ |
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Posted: 12/6/2022 10:40:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: Korea has indeed started deliveries. Whether for show or for dough remains to be seen, but Poland ordering over 1200 MBTs from western-aligned powers, along with 220 HIMARS, and F-35s means they're serious. Dead. Fucking. Serious. Let's see Russians, or anyone, make a Polack joke in the late 2020s. Maybe I need to buy some Polish vodka and find me a Polish gal to make babies with. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: Originally Posted By 4xGM300m: Today: Korea has indeed started deliveries. Whether for show or for dough remains to be seen, but Poland ordering over 1200 MBTs from western-aligned powers, along with 220 HIMARS, and F-35s means they're serious. Dead. Fucking. Serious. Let's see Russians, or anyone, make a Polack joke in the late 2020s. Maybe I need to buy some Polish vodka and find me a Polish gal to make babies with. I dare you. If they are like Polish American women, they make great tank drivers |
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Posted: 12/6/2022 10:47:02 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MNGearhead: Not sure when this happened. https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/zegbsi/ukrainian_fighter_pilot_karaya_gives_a_thumb_up/ https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/299228/UkraineWarVideoReport-bsi_jpg-2626573.JPG Pilots insta https://www.instagram.com/___karaya___/ At least he didn't get any blood on the risers.  Vincent J. Speranza's Full Original Version-BLOOD UPON THE RISERS & BAND of BROTHERS-Music From WWII |
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Posted: 12/6/2022 10:48:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: Korea has indeed started deliveries. Whether for show or for dough remains to be seen, but Poland ordering over 1200 MBTs from western-aligned powers, along with 220 HIMARS, and F-35s means they're serious. Dead. Fucking. Serious. Let's see Russians, or anyone, make a Polack joke in the late 2020s. Maybe I need to buy some Polish vodka and find me a Polish gal to make babies with. Polish friend of mine asked if I could read write or speak Polish. When said no he asked how it felt to be dumber than a Polack. |
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Posted: 12/6/2022 10:49:18 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MouseBoy: I dare you. If they are like Polish American women, they make great tank drivers I just want pierogis and fat happy babies. And beer. I want pierogis and fat happy babies and beer. Is that so wrong? |
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Posted: 12/6/2022 10:54:56 PM EDT
[#22]
ISW assessment for December 6th.
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-december-6 |
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Posted: 12/6/2022 11:04:57 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: <That will never happen. Most Russians support Putin, they believe his lies and are probably incensed with rage that their bases were hit, the exact same way we would feel if we got hit. Pearl Harbor wasn't even a State when Japan bombed us. America went to War! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: Originally Posted By stone-age: I get the distinct impression the russians who have any idea of what is going on, are pretty scared of what nato definitely is going to do if russia uses a nuke. And now that they have been at war with Ukraine, they no longer have any doubt of how badly nato will humiliate them. They would no longer have enough of a military to defend themselves, there would be a civil war, and it would be very violent as the average people take revenge on all of the government people and their family members. <That will never happen. Most Russians support Putin, they believe his lies and are probably incensed with rage that their bases were hit, the exact same way we would feel if we got hit. Pearl Harbor wasn't even a State when Japan bombed us. America went to War! I think Russians are predisposed to follow whoever is the strongest leader, and will turn on Putin in favor of someone they see as stronger in an instant. Stronger doesn’t necessarily mean more aggressive or warlike, but has an ability to rouse ideas of restoring Russian greatness, and rapid recovery from Putin’s failure. |
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Posted: 12/6/2022 11:07:11 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: How many Polacks does it take to level Moscow? Fiddinta |
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Posted: 12/6/2022 11:14:08 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 12/6/2022 11:18:08 PM EDT
[#26]
Working out in the open, I wonder if this is training.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/ze4qrq/ukrainian_partisans_making_ieds_and_a_vbied/ |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 12/6/2022 11:26:13 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 12/6/2022 11:45:19 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MNGearhead: Not sure when this happened. https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/zegbsi/ukrainian_fighter_pilot_karaya_gives_a_thumb_up/ https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/299228/UkraineWarVideoReport-bsi_jpg-2626573.JPG Pilots insta https://www.instagram.com/___karaya___/ Shouldn't we be buying him a new plane? Gofundme? |
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NZL
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Posted: 12/7/2022 12:07:17 AM EDT
[#29]
Another interesting data point to watch. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 12:08:18 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheLurker:
Another interesting data point to watch. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 12:17:30 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jungatheart: Polish friend of mine asked if I could read write or speak Polish. When said no he asked how it felt to be dumber than a Polack.  That's freakin funny.
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Posted: 12/7/2022 12:23:02 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheLurker:
Another interesting data point to watch. Any specific reason why that's happening? Now? |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 12:29:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AROKIE]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MNGearhead: Not sure when this happened. https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/zegbsi/ukrainian_fighter_pilot_karaya_gives_a_thumb_up/ https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/299228/UkraineWarVideoReport-bsi_jpg-2626573.JPG Pilots insta https://www.instagram.com/___karaya___/ Lol did he take a selfie while still in the air in his chute?? ..I swear kids these days gotta get that insta clout. 
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Posted: 12/7/2022 12:29:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AROKIE]
[#34]
double tap
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USA
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Posted: 12/7/2022 12:29:40 AM EDT
[#35]
The large transfer flotilla off the west coast of Portugal is unsustainable. They are literally pumping oil from small bulk carriers to large bulk carriers in the open sea and then making the journey to India or China.
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NZL
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Posted: 12/7/2022 12:31:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheLurker]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Any specific reason why that's happening? Now? Not 100% sure, but likely to do with the price cap on orc oil, and ship insurance being contingent on not shipping oil over the cap price. IIRC, Turkey has stopped a bunch of tankers on insurance grounds lately. It's going to rile the orcs up something fierce if it continues. Wonder how long they can hold until they have to stop pumping from the wells? |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 12:36:20 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: That's deliberate messaging to Putin that we're going to pressure Ukraine to give up Crimea.  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By lorazepam: Interesting verbage by the SOS
That's deliberate messaging to Putin that we're going to pressure Ukraine to give up Crimea. It may or may not be. Here are some opinions/thoughts: -“The west” sees value in keeping their aims and level of support obscure and does this by changing rhetoric, calibrating their material support, calibrating their economic approach to Russia, and so on. -the clearest statement of what is probably an actual war aim was by secdef Austin, who said (paraphrasing) “the goal is to make sure Russia cannot do this again.” -Western officials/sources have at some important times “head-faked” Russia for little obvious reason. For example, when a decision was due on HIMARS, there was a flurry of “leaks” saying that the US had decided AGAINST sending HIMARS. Then, IIRC it was Lavrov who issued a public statement complementing the US for its “reasonable” decision. A couple of days later the US sent HIMARS and changed the course of the war. On the surface you could call it a troll, but I think it has a point beyond juvenile humor. Is this one a head-fake, an attempt to show division where there is none? Or is it an intentional revelation? -If this was an intentional revelation, the west may be considering “secondary effects” of the war, and alternate means to achieve their aims. That is, things beyond battlefield outcomes in Ukraine. For example, I've put forward the opinion that Russia is losing the ability to dominate their periphery as they have for hundreds of years. Power struggles, economic decline, and breakaway regions may already be baked into the cake. If the west can get the outcome to the point where Russia can keep what they took in 2014, but has to gut their military and economy to do it, the west may take that. (An alternate way of saying this would be the West understands that the Russians will gut their nation to salvage their pigheaded imperial pride, so the west will offer exactly that path.) Why? Because the west expects that Russia will collapse internally in the medium term anyway, and this approach minimizes risk to the west of direct, all-out war in the short term. And Ukraine still might end up getting back Crimea, the Donbas, and more in the long term. To be clear, I’m not saying “this is happening”, I’m saying that its worth thinking about what western interests and aims may be, and how the west perceives they can achieve them. I think it’s also important to stay frosty about any one piece of rhetoric, and keep it in the larger context. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 12:40:01 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Lol did he take a selfish while still in the air in his chute?? ..I swear kids these days gotta get that insta clout. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By MNGearhead: Not sure when this happened. https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/zegbsi/ukrainian_fighter_pilot_karaya_gives_a_thumb_up/ https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/299228/UkraineWarVideoReport-bsi_jpg-2626573.JPG Pilots insta https://www.instagram.com/___karaya___/ Lol did he take a selfish while still in the air in his chute?? ..I swear kids these days gotta get that insta clout. Yes, that's what the reddit says. I don't have insta, so not sure what he posted. Someone did say that he posted that to insta to show that it's not all glamour. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 12:55:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Capta]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Video of a Ukrainian artillery barrage in Bakhmut.
 
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USA
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Posted: 12/7/2022 12:56:42 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: That's deliberate messaging to Putin that we're going to pressure Ukraine to give up Crimea. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By lorazepam: Interesting verbage by the SOS
That's deliberate messaging to Putin that we're going to pressure Ukraine to give up Crimea. Yep. It is also in direct violation of our obligations under the Budapest memo, to provide guaranteed security to Ukraine in exchange for its nukes. Either boots on the ground, or give them back their nukes. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 1:05:53 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: Yep. It is also in direct violation of our obligations under the Budapest memo, to provide guaranteed security to Ukraine in exchange for its nukes. Either boots on the ground, or give them back their nukes. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: Originally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By lorazepam: Interesting verbage by the SOS
That's deliberate messaging to Putin that we're going to pressure Ukraine to give up Crimea. Yep. It is also in direct violation of our obligations under the Budapest memo, to provide guaranteed security to Ukraine in exchange for its nukes. Either boots on the ground, or give them back their nukes. Well hopefully when it comes time to actually take Crimea, they will no longer need our help and will have enough on hand to do so. But yeah that doesnt sound like we will be helping at that point. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2022 1:12:40 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: Korea has indeed started deliveries. Whether for show or for dough remains to be seen, but Poland ordering over 1200 MBTs from western-aligned powers, along with 220 HIMARS, and F-35s means they're serious. Dead. Fucking. Serious. Let's see Russians, or anyone, make a Polack joke in the late 2020s. Maybe I need to buy some Polish vodka and find me a Polish gal to make babies with. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: Originally Posted By 4xGM300m: Today: Korea has indeed started deliveries. Whether for show or for dough remains to be seen, but Poland ordering over 1200 MBTs from western-aligned powers, along with 220 HIMARS, and F-35s means they're serious. Dead. Fucking. Serious. Let's see Russians, or anyone, make a Polack joke in the late 2020s. Maybe I need to buy some Polish vodka and find me a Polish gal to make babies with.  I like this stuff. |
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NZL
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Posted: 12/7/2022 1:21:37 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jman1984: https://www.athloneliquorstore.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Zubrowka-Bison-Grass.jpg I like this stuff. I have a bottle of that in the booze cabinet. I really should try it soon. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2022 1:22:33 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: M1117 is a tin can. Outside of the two crew in the front and the gunner, I think it can carry one or maybe two pax. Getting in and out through the door sucks. An RPG-7 will raise havoc. Crosscountry mobility in snow is very poor. The gunner has a 3x day only sight, and you can dump a lot of .50 and mark19 on someone, better then a humvee. But reloading the ammo is also slow and painful. It is an MP vehicle that was useful for convoy security in rear areas. An MATV with a CROWS mount is far better. It is basically obsolete. An M113 is tracked, better cross country mobility, can carry a squad and they can get on and off quickly. Also wont take a hit from an RPG. Not really a fighting vehicle, more of a taxi and I would drop off the dismounts behind cover, at least 500m back, and let them walk in. Can carry lots of stuff. You *could* mount lots of weapons on it, like .50, mark19, 7.62MGs, but its armor is, in the modern world, very thin and its more of a taxi. It can reload belts faster then an M1117. One is a crosscountry uber for grunts and you want to keep it out of trouble, the other is a not very useful convoy security truck. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: Originally Posted By Flogger23m: It has a lot to do with production time and localized production. South Korea claims they can have tanks delivered to Poland this year. I suppose we'll see if that happens. The next part is they will eventually be built in Poland. Poland wants to kickstart their own arms industry. They already do some stuff but clearly want to do everything. Co-producing tanks is a good way to get started. I recall that we are sending the M1117 to Ukraine. How does this compare to the M113 in terms of armor and carrying capacity? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/M1117_Armored_Security_Vehicle.jpg Obviously I assume wheels are better on road and worse off road. Just wondering how these will be used and what role they do. At least the turret is protected. M1117 is a tin can. Outside of the two crew in the front and the gunner, I think it can carry one or maybe two pax. Getting in and out through the door sucks. An RPG-7 will raise havoc. Crosscountry mobility in snow is very poor. The gunner has a 3x day only sight, and you can dump a lot of .50 and mark19 on someone, better then a humvee. But reloading the ammo is also slow and painful. It is an MP vehicle that was useful for convoy security in rear areas. An MATV with a CROWS mount is far better. It is basically obsolete. An M113 is tracked, better cross country mobility, can carry a squad and they can get on and off quickly. Also wont take a hit from an RPG. Not really a fighting vehicle, more of a taxi and I would drop off the dismounts behind cover, at least 500m back, and let them walk in. Can carry lots of stuff. You *could* mount lots of weapons on it, like .50, mark19, 7.62MGs, but its armor is, in the modern world, very thin and its more of a taxi. It can reload belts faster then an M1117. One is a crosscountry uber for grunts and you want to keep it out of trouble, the other is a not very useful convoy security truck. Best way to think of an M1117 is as a replacement for the Uparmored HMMWV, as it is significantly better for most missions (especially off-road). It was upgraded design based on the V350/V500 vehicles used in Vietnam and was initially acquired or the IFOR/SFOR/KFOR missions in the Balkans and was later produced in numbers for the Iraq and Afghanistan missions, as it was significantly better than most other readily-available options circa-2004. As pointed out, they are really designed for route reconnaissance, convoy security, QRF missions and other securtiy.MP-type tasks. M1117 beats using Scooby vans, Russian Jeeps or unarmored pickups for tactical missions, but it is really designed for insurgency and rear security work, not taking on mech forces. I like the analogy of the M113 as an Uber for Grunts, provided you don't have the Uber take you tp the front door of the party. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2022 1:35:33 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Any specific reason why that's happening? Now? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By TheLurker:
Another interesting data point to watch. Any specific reason why that's happening? Now? The $60/bbl price cap on Russian oil set by the EU yesterday? |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2022 1:38:45 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: I just want pierogis and fat happy babies. And beer. I want pierogis and fat happy babies and beer. Is that so wrong? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: Originally Posted By MouseBoy: I dare you. If they are like Polish American women, they make great tank drivers I just want pierogis and fat happy babies. And beer. I want pierogis and fat happy babies and beer. Is that so wrong? You'd like Detroit actually, much pierogis and paczkis here and many fat happy Polish babies. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2022 1:41:43 AM EDT
[#47]
Some additions at Saint Javelin.
https://www.saintjavelin.com/products/holiday-himars-ugly-christmas-sweater-adult 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2022 1:42:22 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: Korea has indeed started deliveries. Whether for show or for dough remains to be seen, but Poland ordering over 1200 MBTs from western-aligned powers, along with 220 HIMARS, and F-35s means they're serious. Dead. Fucking. Serious. Let's see Russians, or anyone, make a Polack joke in the late 2020s. Maybe I need to buy some Polish vodka and find me a Polish gal to make babies with. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Circuits: Originally Posted By 4xGM300m: Today: Korea has indeed started deliveries. Whether for show or for dough remains to be seen, but Poland ordering over 1200 MBTs from western-aligned powers, along with 220 HIMARS, and F-35s means they're serious. Dead. Fucking. Serious. Let's see Russians, or anyone, make a Polack joke in the late 2020s. Maybe I need to buy some Polish vodka and find me a Polish gal to make babies with. Poland inherited the "Prussian Dilemma", as the terrain they possess is not forgiving of strategic errors. It looks like the Poles are adopting the Prussian solution, which is to have a "counteroffensive" army that can both stop an invader AND launch a massive counterattack to ensure than, while the initial battles may be fought on Polish territory, the culminating battles will be on the invader's territory. As long as the Poles can avoid two-front wars (such as the German WWI experience or the 1939 Poland) experience, they probably have both the means and the motivation to effectively execute this strategy. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 1:43:05 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: Yep. It is also in direct violation of our obligations under the Budapest memo, to provide guaranteed security to Ukraine in exchange for its nukes. Either boots on the ground, or give them back their nukes. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: Originally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By lorazepam: Interesting verbage by the SOS
That's deliberate messaging to Putin that we're going to pressure Ukraine to give up Crimea. Yep. It is also in direct violation of our obligations under the Budapest memo, to provide guaranteed security to Ukraine in exchange for its nukes. Either boots on the ground, or give them back their nukes. For the umteenth time, our obligations under the BudaMemo were to respect their border, not use nukes or conventional weapons against them, no economic coercion, and to take any issues to the UN. We've done all that. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 1:50:15 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Well hopefully when it comes time to actually take Crimea, they will no longer need our help and will have enough on hand to do so. But yeah that doesnt sound like we will be helping at that point. And if they take Crimea before Melitopol? As someone else pointed out yesterday or so, this creates an incentive to alter strategy around the political reality instead of the most efficient battlefield strategy. Personally it’s not a threat. It could have been an innocent remark, a head fake, a few different things. The fact that repeated statements have been made that there will be no “imposed” peace on Ukraine would indicate that. |
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