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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/21/2022 6:33:03 PM EST
[#1]
3203
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Posted: 12/21/2022 6:33:28 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: I'm really happy to see Soviet artillery and tank ammo in this package. Hopefully this a trend that continues, seeing as Ukraine has a lot more 122mm/152mm arty pieces than they do 155mm/105mm. It would be VERY interesting to learn the source of that ammo. Supposedly C17's have been flying to all sorts of weird places since this war started. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 12/21/2022 6:34:58 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Infantry26: Fuck that. You touch them. Sprinkle with diesel and top with a flare. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Infantry26: Originally Posted By johnh57: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Load 'em up in catapults and throw them back. |
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NZL
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Posted: 12/21/2022 6:38:08 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KELBEAST: Here we fucking go with the 3 page thread slide…  The pattern is interesting though. I'm interpreting it as an indication of how rattled the orcs are to see Zelensky go to the 🇺🇸, and freaking out about Ukraine getting more/better equipment. The trolls are ramping up bigly, likely in response to a jump in orc talking points from kompromat talking heads 
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Posted: 12/21/2022 6:38:48 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JQ66: I think that would be a waste of time. But Ron Klain will probably be in the room too. For it to work the request must be done in public. And have lots of “good” visuals of what Russians have done the Ukraine, but concise enough to fit in a minute or two. Appeal directly to the American people (and congress) Joe is too far gone to understand what is happening Zelensky would be better off visiting Disney and having a one on one meeting with Mickey. I bet this whole meeting is to make sure Zelensky is "on board" with keeping quiet about Hunter, Joe, et al from 2016-2020 in exchange for continued aid. |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 6:44:24 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hoverguy5: 3203 Congratulations! Is that how you made it to 69 posts in 9 years. Lol |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 6:47:26 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 7empest: Damn he looked uncomfortable. Can't say I blame him being next to Biden would be even scarier than being on the front lines.. Hopefully MRS. Z and their kids stayed away and didnt get sniffed or groped by pedo. |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 6:52:33 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Ukrainian heavy quad style drone shot down by Russian forces. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/zs1zsu/heavy_quad_drone_of_ukraine_brought_down_by/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb Dang. That thing was loaded for bear too. Too bad it didnt have time to unload the payload on their heads. |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 6:54:55 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: We have to assume there will be some losses, because there just will. And russians will eventually stop being just awful at absolutely everything. But I'd like to know if that actually is a Ukraine drone as opposed to a russian drone. And if it's Ukranian I'd like to know what brought it down so work can be done to protect them, if that's possible. It's a very big drone, big target. A belt fed machinegun with tracers would be hard to defend against with anything other than altitude. That is the problem with those giant drones like that crazy mortar revolver. It's big enough to be seen and or heard and engaged with small arms. It's literally 20X larger than the small ones but must stay about the same altitude to get accurate drops. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/21/2022 6:57:39 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: The SU-27 mods were mentioned a couple weeks ago. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Definately shaping operations for the next offensive.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fkg5EHRWYAAE0PS?format=jpg&name=large The infographic mentions SU-27s adapted. Previously we only heard of Mig-29s firing HARMs. I also wonder if they're getting more modern HARMs and if their planes are being modified to fully use them instead of just "easy mode". Pretty interesting development. Russia will have to get a lot smarter with their radars, but with their poor communications that's a problem. If Ukraine can afford to keep a HARM Mig airborne near important areas of the front they can keep up a steady attrition on radars. The SU-27 mods were mentioned a couple weeks ago. Some pictures on the wings of an Su-27:  Putting some JDAMs on those would be helpful. Currently the planes are just doing cruise missile interception, SEAD and lofting rockets in the general direction of the enemy. With some JDAMs they may actually be able to hit some targets on the ground. Being able to do so while contending with Russian interceptors will still be an issue. But at least now they might find windows after SEAD missions where they can get a few bombs on target. |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 7:14:09 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flogger23m: Some pictures on the wings of an Su-27: https://www.thedrive.com/uploads/2022/09/09/Su-27_HARM.jpg?auto=webp&auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=3840 Putting some JDAMs on those would be helpful. Currently the planes are just doing cruise missile interception, SEAD and lofting rockets in the general direction of the enemy. With some JDAMs they may actually be able to hit some targets on the ground. Being able to do so while contending with Russian interceptors will still be an issue. But at least now they might find windows after SEAD missions where they can get a few bombs on target. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flogger23m: Originally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Definately shaping operations for the next offensive.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fkg5EHRWYAAE0PS?format=jpg&name=large The infographic mentions SU-27s adapted. Previously we only heard of Mig-29s firing HARMs. I also wonder if they're getting more modern HARMs and if their planes are being modified to fully use them instead of just "easy mode". Pretty interesting development. Russia will have to get a lot smarter with their radars, but with their poor communications that's a problem. If Ukraine can afford to keep a HARM Mig airborne near important areas of the front they can keep up a steady attrition on radars. The SU-27 mods were mentioned a couple weeks ago. Some pictures on the wings of an Su-27: https://www.thedrive.com/uploads/2022/09/09/Su-27_HARM.jpg?auto=webp&auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=3840 Putting some JDAMs on those would be helpful. Currently the planes are just doing cruise missile interception, SEAD and lofting rockets in the general direction of the enemy. With some JDAMs they may actually be able to hit some targets on the ground. Being able to do so while contending with Russian interceptors will still be an issue. But at least now they might find windows after SEAD missions where they can get a few bombs on target. Never though I'd see the day a Flanker was armed with HARMS I like the false canopy painted on too, pretty cool visual deception technique. I'm not sure how useuful JDAMs will be considering the threat environment. I really wish we would just give them cruise missiles and ATACMS already especially with Putin now promising to double down on the war effort 
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Posted: 12/21/2022 7:14:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: CharlieR]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: That is the problem with those giant drones like that crazy mortar revolver. It's big enough to be seen and or heard and engaged with small arms. It's literally 20X larger than the small ones but must stay about the same altitude to get accurate drops. The small ones are dropping individual grenades on 1-3 people. I think a six mortar salvo on a saquad can be from higher up. Since it isn’t a person, treat it like ammo. It’s an expendable component. It’s cheaper then a javelin round, or Excalibur. If you could get two sorties out of it and knock out two vehicles, that’s twice as good as a javelin.At 1/3 t 2/3 the cost. |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 7:15:52 PM EST
[#13]
A Patriot Missile "Battery"......... Is that one radar and multiple spread out launchers? Or Multiple radars and multiple launchers? Or one radar one launcher? Just trying to understand "Battery" in Army speak.
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Posted: 12/21/2022 7:21:56 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hoverguy5: 3203
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Posted: 12/21/2022 7:34:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USMC88-93: A Patriot Missile "Battery"......... Is that one radar and multiple spread out launchers? Or Multiple radars and multiple launchers? Or one radar one launcher? Just trying to understand "Battery" in Army speak. Its most likely a complete system with multiple launchers, your first thoughts are probably correct. 
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Posted: 12/21/2022 7:39:12 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IEC: Yup, at this point MTG is either on the payroll... or is a useful idiot of the Kremlin. How about just "an idiot"? |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 12/21/2022 7:43:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: YaNi05]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brok3n: Never though I'd see the day a Flanker was armed with HARMS I like the false canopy painted on too, pretty cool visual deception technique. I'm not sure how useuful JDAMs will be considering the threat environment. I really wish we would just give them cruise missiles and ATACMS already especially with Putin now promising to double down on the war effort Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brok3n: Originally Posted By Flogger23m: Originally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Definately shaping operations for the next offensive.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fkg5EHRWYAAE0PS?format=jpg&name=large The infographic mentions SU-27s adapted. Previously we only heard of Mig-29s firing HARMs. I also wonder if they're getting more modern HARMs and if their planes are being modified to fully use them instead of just "easy mode". Pretty interesting development. Russia will have to get a lot smarter with their radars, but with their poor communications that's a problem. If Ukraine can afford to keep a HARM Mig airborne near important areas of the front they can keep up a steady attrition on radars. The SU-27 mods were mentioned a couple weeks ago. Some pictures on the wings of an Su-27: https://www.thedrive.com/uploads/2022/09/09/Su-27_HARM.jpg?auto=webp&auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=3840 Putting some JDAMs on those would be helpful. Currently the planes are just doing cruise missile interception, SEAD and lofting rockets in the general direction of the enemy. With some JDAMs they may actually be able to hit some targets on the ground. Being able to do so while contending with Russian interceptors will still be an issue. But at least now they might find windows after SEAD missions where they can get a few bombs on target. Never though I'd see the day a Flanker was armed with HARMS I like the false canopy painted on too, pretty cool visual deception technique. I'm not sure how useuful JDAMs will be considering the threat environment. I really wish we would just give them cruise missiles and ATACMS already especially with Putin now promising to double down on the war effort The idea of manned UAF fighters dropping JDAMs on russian positions seems comical. The skies over the battlefield are not a friendly place between the MANPADs, SHORAD, SAMs, and Flankers w/ R-37M (AA-13). https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/a-mig-29-pilots-inside-account-of-the-changing-air-war-over-ukraine This article has a pretty good explanation of the air war. I just don't know how they get to the point of being able to loiter at 20k+ft and drop warheads on foreheads. Higher altitude could put them out of range of MANPADS and some SHORAD, but the would really need to put a massive emphasis on SEAD and then some kind of aggressive air superiority shift with some kind of air patrols well behind the lines, since russian aircraft are launching those R-37's from very long range. They don't have near enough aircraft of quantity or quality to accomplish that. |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 7:47:34 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JQ66: Do you really think all of that is going to Ukraine? Not a single dollar is being used to fund DNC activities, to make sure no republicans, especially true conservatives, ever get into public office again? Who’s being naive? There will be no “recouping the spend”. The USA is over $30 TRILLION aim debt. You great great grandchildren- if you have any, might only begin to start paying on this part of the debt right before they die of old age. And the result of that, the USA entrenched in marxism for 100 years. But go ahead. Question nothing. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JQ66: Originally Posted By IEC: Originally Posted By JQ66: Nobody should trust the DC establishment And the DNC is controlling the purse strings right now. Yeah, they’ve always been above board. My tax dollars being used to equip a sovereign nation's military that just so happens to be beating the half dead, partially-dismembered corpse of the old Soviet boogeyman to death is fine with me. We'll recoup all the spend and then some in new arms deals and increased manufacturing and economic activity stateside. Destroying an enemy by proxy without any boots on the ground. Do you really think all of that is going to Ukraine? Not a single dollar is being used to fund DNC activities, to make sure no republicans, especially true conservatives, ever get into public office again? Who’s being naive? There will be no “recouping the spend”. The USA is over $30 TRILLION aim debt. You great great grandchildren- if you have any, might only begin to start paying on this part of the debt right before they die of old age. And the result of that, the USA entrenched in marxism for 100 years. But go ahead. Question nothing. By all means start your own thread where you provide extensive and well-researched proof of what you are alleging. When you do, feel free to come back and drop a link. |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 7:48:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#19]
Big thread illustrating the Russian order of battle for those interested, much more maps and explanations in thread.
        
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Posted: 12/21/2022 7:49:20 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CleverNickname: How about just "an idiot"? |
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USA
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Posted: 12/21/2022 7:49:34 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brok3n: Never though I'd see the day a Flanker was armed with HARMS I like the false canopy painted on too, pretty cool visual deception technique. I'm not sure how useuful JDAMs will be considering the threat environment. I really wish we would just give them cruise missiles and ATACMS already especially with Putin now promising to double down on the war effort Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brok3n: Originally Posted By Flogger23m: Originally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Definately shaping operations for the next offensive.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fkg5EHRWYAAE0PS?format=jpg&name=large The infographic mentions SU-27s adapted. Previously we only heard of Mig-29s firing HARMs. I also wonder if they're getting more modern HARMs and if their planes are being modified to fully use them instead of just "easy mode". Pretty interesting development. Russia will have to get a lot smarter with their radars, but with their poor communications that's a problem. If Ukraine can afford to keep a HARM Mig airborne near important areas of the front they can keep up a steady attrition on radars. The SU-27 mods were mentioned a couple weeks ago. Some pictures on the wings of an Su-27: https://www.thedrive.com/uploads/2022/09/09/Su-27_HARM.jpg?auto=webp&auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=3840 Putting some JDAMs on those would be helpful. Currently the planes are just doing cruise missile interception, SEAD and lofting rockets in the general direction of the enemy. With some JDAMs they may actually be able to hit some targets on the ground. Being able to do so while contending with Russian interceptors will still be an issue. But at least now they might find windows after SEAD missions where they can get a few bombs on target. Never though I'd see the day a Flanker was armed with HARMS I like the false canopy painted on too, pretty cool visual deception technique. I'm not sure how useuful JDAMs will be considering the threat environment. I really wish we would just give them cruise missiles and ATACMS already especially with Putin now promising to double down on the war effort The threat from Russian fighters/interceptors is real. Only thing I can see happening that would make them very useful is if they get more long range systems like more Patriots and that long range European system to provide enough coverage so they can get behind enemy lines with some coverage and then hit some key targets. They're getting more Brimstone missiles. If they can start operating at the front lines with reasonable protection and we can manage to integrate those onto Soviet era planes that would be a game changer. |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 7:50:08 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Zelensky would be better off visiting Disney and having a one on one meeting with Mickey. I bet this whole meeting is to make sure Zelensky is "on board" with keeping quiet about Hunter, Joe, et al from 2016-2020 in exchange for continued aid. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By JQ66: I think that would be a waste of time. But Ron Klain will probably be in the room too. For it to work the request must be done in public. And have lots of “good” visuals of what Russians have done the Ukraine, but concise enough to fit in a minute or two. Appeal directly to the American people (and congress) Joe is too far gone to understand what is happening Zelensky would be better off visiting Disney and having a one on one meeting with Mickey. I bet this whole meeting is to make sure Zelensky is "on board" with keeping quiet about Hunter, Joe, et al from 2016-2020 in exchange for continued aid. It’s a legitimate visit, but biden wasn’t on board from the start. And other than his handlers seeing how this is largely been a good PR thing for the administration, I doubt they still are. As much as many of you guys hate Austin, he’s done a lot more to get what Ukraine needs than biden. Blinken too. Not sure where Biden’s main staff like Klain lies, but I doubt he’s a real ally of Ukraine. And you know people like FBHO and VJ and not with them. They allowed Russian to take lots of territory in 2014 and only gave Ukraine some blankets, I’d guess most of the evidence of the biden crime family’s operations in Ukraine are destroyed in this war. And his partners from there are either dead or fled to russia or other parts unknown. |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 7:52:08 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: By all means start your own thread where you provide extensive and well-researched proof of what you are alleging. When you do, feel free to come back and drop a link. You’re not my supervisor |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 7:53:32 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CleverNickname: How about just "an idiot"? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CleverNickname: Originally Posted By IEC: Yup, at this point MTG is either on the payroll... or is a useful idiot of the Kremlin. How about just "an idiot"? Since this is GD I will go with both. |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 7:54:30 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FkggPrwWIAEr6ge?format=jpg&name=medium I had the honor of welcoming to Ukraine the Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Poland and my friend General Raimund Andrzejczak. This is an opportunity to openly discuss the security situation in the region and the scenarios of its development. I am grateful that Ukraine is not alone in resisting Russian armed aggression, and this is a huge merit of the Polish brothers. He thanked for the provided international military aid, which includes weapons, military equipment, ammunition and necessary materials. I appreciate the opportunity to conduct professional training of our servicemen on Polish territory. Together, we implement a strategically important decision regarding Ukraine's transition to the heavy armament of NATO member states. Deep gratitude to the Polish side for the treatment and rehabilitation of wounded Ukrainian soldiers. "Without a free Ukraine, a free Poland is unthinkable," - the famous Polish intellectual Jerzy Giedroyc is considered the author of these words. They are extremely relevant now. It was our honor and responsibility to fight for the will of Ukraine and the whole of Europe side by side. @CinCAFU
Timing? Zelensky visits the US. while the Poles visit Ukr. Head fake to Russia to see what Putin does? I'm no master strategist, just a knuckle dragger. |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 7:57:46 PM EST
[#26]
This speech by Zelensky to congress is good so far.
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Posted: 12/21/2022 7:58:31 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bushleaguepilot: Or when they get their draft notices... Hell they should be enlisting in droves to support the war and this great president who is dragging us into it. How do you know there aren't soldiers participating? They have 400,000 troops they are trying to train and equip.You are welcome to help speed things up if you have ideas. |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 8:01:16 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JQ66: You're not my supervisor Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JQ66: Originally Posted By Capta: By all means start your own thread where you provide extensive and well-researched proof of what you are alleging. When you do, feel free to come back and drop a link. You're not my supervisor |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 8:01:54 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: This speech by Zelensky to congress is good so far. Got a link? |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 8:03:03 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: Got a link?  President Zelenskyy delivers an address to U.S. Congress — 12/21/22 |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 8:06:42 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JQ66: You’re not my supervisor What happened man? You have posted a bunch in this thread and you were never like this before. |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 8:08:05 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: [/b] Zelensky would be better off visiting Disney and having a one on one meeting with Mickey. I bet this whole meeting is to make sure Zelensky is "on board" with keeping quiet about Hunter, Joe, et al from 2016-2020 in exchange for continued aid. Lol. |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 8:10:37 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: The small ones are dropping individual grenades on 1-3 people. I think a six mortar salvo on a saquad can be from higher up. Since it isn’t a person, treat it like ammo. It’s an expendable component. It’s cheaper then a javelin round, or Excalibur. If you could get two sorties out of it and knock out two vehicles, that’s twice as good as a javelin.At 1/3 t 2/3 the cost. I read an article that that said the life expectancy of a drone was less than 10 missions. |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 8:11:19 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: Originally Posted By ludder093: Got a link?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUSPV-Kydks |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 8:11:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: iggy1337]
[#35]
We'll do another Scot Ritter ON Redacted.
Dont give em the click just to mprove I'm not just making up looney shit - Lopsided Russian advantage. - Russia has a hands down advatage in troops, equipment and tactics - Ukriane can no longer wage combined arms warfare. - Ukraine has no atrillery and no ammo, Russia destoyed everything. - Ukraine has no tanks or armored vehicles. - Russia has been holding back. Now Russia wil send in the good stufTM - Russia to push Ukraine back 200km. - Odessa on the board. - Ukraine wil become a land locked country. - When Russia's offensive starts it's a unstoppeble tidalwave. - Russian terms wil be surrender or die and if they don't surrender fast they wil be killed. - Taking of Odessa is going to happen and link up with Tranistia. - Russian's are methodical unstoppable force. - Odessa done by the end of summer. |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 8:12:00 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: Thank you Ben. |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 8:25:48 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: We'll do another Scot Ritter ON Redacted. Dont give em the click just to mprove I'm not just making up looney shit - Lopsided Russian advantage. - Russia has a hands down advatage in troops, equipment and tactics - Ukriane can no longer wage combined arms warfare. - Ukraine has no atrillery and no ammo, Russia destoyed everything. - Ukraine has no tanks or armored vehicles. - Russia has been holding back. Now Russia wil send in the good stufTM - Russia to push Ukraine back 200km. - Odessa on the board. - Ukraine wil become a land locked country. - When Russia's offensive starts it's a unstoppeble tidalwave. - Russian terms wil be surrender or die and if they don't surrender fast they wil be killed. - Taking of Odessa is going to happen and link up with Tranistia. - Russian's are methodical unstoppable force. - Odessa done by the end of summer. I wouldn't want to play poker with him. Talk about lying with a straight face... |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 8:28:48 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: True again. But I dont think they are all trolls here to stir up shit. I have big arguments with my own father who watches conservative Hungarian news sources and basically gets 100% RU propaganda. I KNOW he is not trolling me but honestly believes what he see's and reads on-line. Most busy people watch 1 or 2 news sources, maybe for a few minutes per day and THAT is the basis of their opinions. It's the same shit with folks on the left that only watch cnn or msnbc and are convinced that Trump never paid taxes and Jan6 was an actual insurrection. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By Capta: Gotta say I agree. Silence gives consent. The large majority of readers here are probably silent and not paid members with an ignore button. If false positions are allowed, without opposition, to be stated continually, consistently, and (as appears to be the tactic) by mutually reinforcing posters, those points will gain traction. It’s the sad reality of propaganda as identified by Dr. Goebbels. ““If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” Maybe we don't need to engage in a running gunbattle with every troll, and the mod edits onto previous troll posts identifying the poster as banned are a useful addition for the people who read in chronological order. But such positions need to be rebutted completely with facts EVERY TIME, for the sake of newer readers to the thread. Yes, it’s tiresome to repeat the same exercise every three days, but the trolls WILL NOT stop. The bottom line is that it’s a cost of doing business in an environment polluted by paid trolls, bots, actual foreign agents, and domestic fools captured by political hatred. I’ll say a couple of things to the last group - domestic fools. You are objectively siding with Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea. Russia has been our sworn enemy for a century, has cost us hundreds of thousands of lives of American servicemen, and has sown untold death, misery, and terror across the world. You are flirting with treason. For God’s sake, re-evaluate your positions and admit you made a mistake. True again. But I dont think they are all trolls here to stir up shit. I have big arguments with my own father who watches conservative Hungarian news sources and basically gets 100% RU propaganda. I KNOW he is not trolling me but honestly believes what he see's and reads on-line. Most busy people watch 1 or 2 news sources, maybe for a few minutes per day and THAT is the basis of their opinions. It's the same shit with folks on the left that only watch cnn or msnbc and are convinced that Trump never paid taxes and Jan6 was an actual insurrection. Whether a troll is a paid foreign agent or an unpaid domestic citizen who doesn’t realize he’s functioning as an agent of influence for an enemy power, the effect is the same. It’s not that i’m unsympathetic or unaware of the problem. If I discussed this with my dad today I think it’d be tough. He’s bought (IMO) into the “if a democrat says it’s black it must be white” paradigm. But I think he has some internal cognitive dissonance - he fought in Nam, and has been a Texas conservative his whole life. And to admit publicly again - I was one of the people who got suckered in 2014. So I more than understand. You can shake loose, but it’s painful. |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 8:29:38 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CleverNickname: How about just "an idiot"? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CleverNickname: Originally Posted By IEC: Yup, at this point MTG is either on the payroll... or is a useful idiot of the Kremlin. How about just "an idiot"? |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 12/21/2022 8:31:46 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USMC88-93: A Patriot Missile "Battery"......... Is that one radar and multiple spread out launchers? Or Multiple radars and multiple launchers? Or one radar one launcher? Just trying to understand "Battery" in Army speak. Essentially, the Patriot System more-or-less operates as a Battalion (Squadron-size element for you Naval Aviation, Air Force or Cavalry types). This is a Commanded by a Lieutenant Colonel with a nose count somewhere north of 600 personnel. The Battalion has between six and nine Batteries (Artillery equivalent to a Flight, Company, or Troop) commanded by a Captain (O-3 type) with roughly 80-ish soldiers per Battery. Two of these are a Headquarters Battery and a Maintenance Company (or Battery), with between four and six "line batteries", which are the actual firing batteries that employ the Patriot systems. Each line battery consists of (usually) six launchers and is organized into three or four platoons: a Fire Control platoon, a Launcher platoon, and a Headquarters/Maintenance platoon (which, depending on the unit, can be organized as either a single platoon or as two separate platoons). The Fire Control Platoon maintains and operates the "Patriot Big 4" (AN/MPQ-65 Radar, M-900 series Engagement Control station, OE-349 Antenna Mast Group, and the electric power plant, which consists of relatively huge tactical generators). Naturally, the Launcher Platoon operates and maintains the launchers, and Headquarters/Maintenance platoon(s) provides the Battery with maintenance support and a Headquarters section. Hope this helps. |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 8:34:09 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: That is the problem with those giant drones like that crazy mortar revolver. It's big enough to be seen and or heard and engaged with small arms. It's literally 20X larger than the small ones but must stay about the same altitude to get accurate drops. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By stone-age: We have to assume there will be some losses, because there just will. And russians will eventually stop being just awful at absolutely everything. But I'd like to know if that actually is a Ukraine drone as opposed to a russian drone. And if it's Ukranian I'd like to know what brought it down so work can be done to protect them, if that's possible. It's a very big drone, big target. A belt fed machinegun with tracers would be hard to defend against with anything other than altitude. That is the problem with those giant drones like that crazy mortar revolver. It's big enough to be seen and or heard and engaged with small arms. It's literally 20X larger than the small ones but must stay about the same altitude to get accurate drops. So far as I've seen they exclusively fly these at night for exactly that reason. If the Russians actually shot it down it would have to be something with NV. Maybe even radar. Whether it was actually shot down is unknown. It could’ve been jammed, had a mechanical problem, or run out of juice in the cold. The Russians would obviously claim they shot it down which is understandable. |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 8:44:15 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: You are welcome Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: Originally Posted By ludder093: Thank you Ben. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 12/21/2022 8:45:07 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: We'll do another Scot Ritter ON Redacted. Dont give em the click just to mprove I'm not just making up looney shit - Lopsided Russian advantage. - Russia has a hands down advatage in troops, equipment and tactics - Ukriane can no longer wage combined arms warfare. - Ukraine has no atrillery and no ammo, Russia destoyed everything. - Ukraine has no tanks or armored vehicles. - Russia has been holding back. Now Russia wil send in the good stufTM - Russia to push Ukraine back 200km. - Odessa on the board. - Ukraine wil become a land locked country. - When Russia's offensive starts it's a unstoppeble tidalwave. - Russian terms wil be surrender or die and if they don't surrender fast they wil be killed. - Taking of Odessa is going to happen and link up with Tranistia. - Russian's are methodical unstoppable force. - Odessa done by the end of summer. Wait, so we're back to March 2022 talking points? |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 8:47:07 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By YaNi05: The idea of manned UAF fighters dropping JDAMs on russian positions seems comical. The skies over the battlefield are not a friendly place between the MANPADs, SHORAD, SAMs, and Flankers w/ R-37M (AA-13). https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/a-mig-29-pilots-inside-account-of-the-changing-air-war-over-ukraine This article has a pretty good explanation of the air war. I just don't know how they get to the point of being able to loiter at 20k+ft and drop warheads on foreheads. Higher altitude could put them out of range of MANPADS and some SHORAD, but the would really need to put a massive emphasis on SEAD and then some kind of aggressive air superiority shift with some kind of air patrols well behind the lines, since russian aircraft are launching those R-37's from very long range. They don't have near enough aircraft of quantity or quality to accomplish that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By YaNi05: Originally Posted By Brok3n: Originally Posted By Flogger23m: Originally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Definately shaping operations for the next offensive.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fkg5EHRWYAAE0PS?format=jpg&name=large The infographic mentions SU-27s adapted. Previously we only heard of Mig-29s firing HARMs. I also wonder if they're getting more modern HARMs and if their planes are being modified to fully use them instead of just "easy mode". Pretty interesting development. Russia will have to get a lot smarter with their radars, but with their poor communications that's a problem. If Ukraine can afford to keep a HARM Mig airborne near important areas of the front they can keep up a steady attrition on radars. The SU-27 mods were mentioned a couple weeks ago. Some pictures on the wings of an Su-27: https://www.thedrive.com/uploads/2022/09/09/Su-27_HARM.jpg?auto=webp&auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=3840 Putting some JDAMs on those would be helpful. Currently the planes are just doing cruise missile interception, SEAD and lofting rockets in the general direction of the enemy. With some JDAMs they may actually be able to hit some targets on the ground. Being able to do so while contending with Russian interceptors will still be an issue. But at least now they might find windows after SEAD missions where they can get a few bombs on target. Never though I'd see the day a Flanker was armed with HARMS I like the false canopy painted on too, pretty cool visual deception technique. I'm not sure how useuful JDAMs will be considering the threat environment. I really wish we would just give them cruise missiles and ATACMS already especially with Putin now promising to double down on the war effort The idea of manned UAF fighters dropping JDAMs on russian positions seems comical. The skies over the battlefield are not a friendly place between the MANPADs, SHORAD, SAMs, and Flankers w/ R-37M (AA-13). https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/a-mig-29-pilots-inside-account-of-the-changing-air-war-over-ukraine This article has a pretty good explanation of the air war. I just don't know how they get to the point of being able to loiter at 20k+ft and drop warheads on foreheads. Higher altitude could put them out of range of MANPADS and some SHORAD, but the would really need to put a massive emphasis on SEAD and then some kind of aggressive air superiority shift with some kind of air patrols well behind the lines, since russian aircraft are launching those R-37's from very long range. They don't have near enough aircraft of quantity or quality to accomplish that. I posted on this yesterday. A toss-bombing (loft-bombing) strategy seems feasible. This is a well-understood method that was developed after WW2. There are many variations, but all of them are designed to get standoff range with a ballistic bomb. From a low-level high speed approach followed by a pull-up to 45 degrees, you should be able to get circa 7-8 mile range. This is enough to stay out of manpad range, and the various Russian SR SAMs. The attacking aircraft will ideally be back on the deck and out of radar coverage before it can be engaged by LR SAMs. The key is to fly the release profile well enough to get the bomb close, and laser guidance will handle the fine aiming. US F-15Es actually used toss-bombing against Iraqi airfields in 1991. The UAF and RUAF have been doing the same with unguided rockets the whole war. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/21/2022 8:47:28 PM EST
[#45]
Man, the spates of vigorous wankers are more funny than they should be.
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Posted: 12/21/2022 8:50:58 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JQ66: You’re not my supervisor Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JQ66: Originally Posted By Capta: By all means start your own thread where you provide extensive and well-researched proof of what you are alleging. When you do, feel free to come back and drop a link. You’re not my supervisor LOL |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 8:51:47 PM EST
[#47]
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Posted: 12/21/2022 9:04:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: jough43]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JQ66: Do you really think all of that is going to Ukraine? Not a single dollar is being used to fund DNC activities, to make sure no republicans, especially true conservatives, ever get into public office again? Who’s being naive? There will be no “recouping the spend”. The USA is over $30 TRILLION aim debt. You great great grandchildren- if you have any, might only begin to start paying on this part of the debt right before they die of old age. And the result of that, the USA entrenched in marxism for 100 years. But go ahead. Question nothing. Dude. Bottom line is Russia loses. Russia is basically destroyed. Nothing will stop that. If Russia wants to survive, they must stop the war, return children and others, prosecuted for war crimes, pay to completely rebuild Ukraine and most importantly...continue being the laughing stock of even second world countries, because they are. |
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Posted: 12/21/2022 9:07:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: Jack67]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: It would be VERY interesting to learn the source of that ammo. Supposedly C17's have been flying to all sorts of weird places since this war started. I don’t know where our C-17s all our, but they are NOT at their bases training. I live about 10 air miles from McChord across the sound. Normally I would see anywhere from two to 10 C-17s a week in the air, when around town on errands, or sometimes from home. I haven’t seen a single one since about May. There are ~50 home based there. Here’s something that was relevant yesterday I meant to post. (I’m pretty sick in bed with Covid rn so in and out of clarity, sorry). Here’s the adapter rack for hooking the AGM-88 to a Mig hardpoint. There’s a lot more to making it work than that, but I thought it might be interesting. Once you work out the adapter and cockpit control, you can put them on anything with the same hardpoints (Su-27, heck an Su-25 even).  Attached File |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 12/21/2022 9:11:14 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johnh57: I've been following some of the Ukraine tweets on Twitter. They are all fawning over how great a man fjb is. I sincerely hope they have a viable plan B for when fjb fucks them over. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johnh57: Originally Posted By 7empest: Damn he looked uncomfortable. Can't say I blame him being next to Biden would be even scarier than being on the front lines.. I've been following some of the Ukraine tweets on Twitter. They are all fawning over how great a man fjb is. I sincerely hope they have a viable plan B for when fjb fucks them over. Considering State and to a lesser extent the Pentagon often complain that getting info out of Kyiv about their plans, ect is like pulling teeth…..I think the higher ups there expect it from Washington. I bet they’ve been squirreling away a lot of the stuff we gave them, too. Zelenskyy has had the naïveté beaten out of him since he took office, especially the war. |
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