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Posted: 1/9/2023 3:20:18 PM EDT
[#1]
We'll see if this gets legs fast with the British offer of Challenger 2.
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Posted: 1/9/2023 3:32:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: … Personally, I do not believe the actual T-62s and T-72s which are physically present in Ukraine right now, will stay in the fight for long after receiving a burst of 25mm fire from a Ukrainian Bradley. If nothing else, the exterior view ports and sensors on a T-72 will be quickly scrubbed off if hit by a Bradley’s 25mm. More distant Russian tanks face the TOW. As for doubts about setting things on fire, it’s not classified as to what DU does if it manages to penetrate: it becomes a potent incendiary. … And we can hope they have the sense to send the M919 DU rounds and not the inferior M791 tungsten rounds. Reports from Desert Storm with the M791 were that it was not effective on heavy armor like the M919. GD (the one with the toys) has a new M919-style tungsten round that has not been adopted (?). Finned long rod like the M919, and a smokin’ V - 4,560fps (1,390mps). https://www.gd-ots.com/munitions/medium-caliber-ammunition/25mm-tungsten-apfsds-t/ |
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USA
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Posted: 1/9/2023 3:41:17 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: That mortar-round drop video is fascinating. Notice how the stretcher-bearers take 2 or 3 steps right after the detonation? It is almost like the chicken who continues to run even after it’s been decapitated. More likely: the leg bones were not shattered or broken by the point-blank blast, and the leg muscles momentarily still functioned, as did the brain and CNS. But within 3 seconds, the front 2 soldiers collapsed. Blood loss? Shock? Every mortar man should watch that video. I rewatched that shit like 4 times because what you see on that video does not compute. Dead man walking… |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:03:46 PM EDT
[#4]
25 min ago.
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USA
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:04:13 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mickdog13: I rewatched that shit like 4 times because what you see on that video does not compute. Dead man walking… Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mickdog13: Originally Posted By Dominion21: That mortar-round drop video is fascinating. Notice how the stretcher-bearers take 2 or 3 steps right after the detonation? It is almost like the chicken who continues to run even after it’s been decapitated. More likely: the leg bones were not shattered or broken by the point-blank blast, and the leg muscles momentarily still functioned, as did the brain and CNS. But within 3 seconds, the front 2 soldiers collapsed. Blood loss? Shock? Every mortar man should watch that video. I rewatched that shit like 4 times because what you see on that video does not compute. Dead man walking… Now I am wondering if those guys just didn't get startled and trip over themselves. Front left guys goes down, but seems to be getting up near end of the video. Doesn't seem to be nursing any wounds. Front right guy walks off screen, suggesting he isn't really hurt. |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:09:10 PM EDT
[#6]
 How is an M777 Howitzer Aimed? |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:09:19 PM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:10:06 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By general_cluster: Now I am wondering if those guys just didn't get startled and trip over themselves. Front left guys goes down, but seems to be getting up near end of the video. Doesn't seem to be nursing any wounds. Front right guy walks off screen, suggesting he isn't really hurt. I’m curious how effective a lot of these drone-dropped munitions are. I mean, they must have to be pretty light. A lot of videos with direct or near-direct hits, with orcs moving around after. Who knows for how long though… |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:14:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mickdog13: I rewatched that shit like 4 times because what you see on that video does not compute. Dead man walking It was almost like a Looney Tunes thing. Like the Coyote doesn't fall for a couple seconds after going over the cliff. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:16:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: general_cluster]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OBird: I’m curious how effective a lot of these drone-dropped munitions are. I mean, they must have to be pretty light. A lot of videos with direct or near-direct hits, with orcs moving around after. Who knows for how long though… Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OBird: Originally Posted By general_cluster: Now I am wondering if those guys just didn't get startled and trip over themselves. Front left guys goes down, but seems to be getting up near end of the video. Doesn't seem to be nursing any wounds. Front right guy walks off screen, suggesting he isn't really hurt. I’m curious how effective a lot of these drone-dropped munitions are. I mean, they must have to be pretty light. A lot of videos with direct or near-direct hits, with orcs moving around after. Who knows for how long though… Obviously hard for us to say from the comfort of our blue screens. seems like they might be impact rather than airburst, which might be degrading performance. |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:19:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
The US ships 50 BFVs and UA might see 1 arrive  
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:21:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: That mortar-round drop video is fascinating. Notice how the stretcher-bearers take 2 or 3 steps right after the detonation? It is almost like the chicken who continues to run even after it's been decapitated. More likely: the leg bones were not shattered or broken by the point-blank blast, and the leg muscles momentarily still functioned, as did the brain and CNS. But within 3 seconds, the front 2 soldiers collapsed. Blood loss? Shock? Every mortar man should watch that video. Impact fuse hitting at close range. The frag pattern that close will still be very close to the ground. Most of the hits were probably to the lower legs |
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USA
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:22:32 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
these seem nifty It takes only 30 seconds to stop and prepare for firing. Out of action time is also as short as 30 second |
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USA
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:23:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Marketing stunt.
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:31:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chaingun: I get it The US ships 50 BFVs and UA might see 1 arrive Yeah, it'd be totally easy for somebody to sell M2 ODS Bradleys on the black market. Totally wouldn't raise any eyebrows or get any authority's attention. |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:31:35 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chaingun: I get it The US ships 50 BFVs and UA might see 1 arrive Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chaingun: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
The US ships 50 BFVs and UA might see 1 arrive lol, if that is what helps them to sleep at night.
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:32:29 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: translated video.
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:33:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By general_cluster: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
these seem nifty It takes only 30 seconds to stop and prepare for firing. Out of action time is also as short as 30 second All the clues for maneuver warfare with rapid reaction long range fires. |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:35:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Did I miss some news about the Brits sending over Challenger 2's to Ukraine? I know this thread moves fast
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:41:24 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: I don't think you're supposed to hit a cas evac. But with everything Russia has done to Ukrainians under their occupation..... Fuck 'em. It made me laugh. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Brutal.
I don't think you're supposed to hit a cas evac. But with everything Russia has done to Ukrainians under their occupation..... Fuck 'em. It made me laugh. 
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:42:56 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Did I miss some news about the Brits sending over Challenger 2's to Ukraine? I know this thread moves fast They're considering it, but nothing concrete yet. |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:45:33 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Did I miss some news about the Brits sending over Challenger 2's to Ukraine? I know this thread moves fast They are saying they are *thinking about* sending 10. Whole point is to break the ice and shame Germany or the US into doing the right thing. |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:45:40 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Brutal.
Boom Jaga Jaga! Pointer guy almost seems to like his hobby to much 
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:45:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: They're considering it, but nothing concrete yet. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Did I miss some news about the Brits sending over Challenger 2's to Ukraine? I know this thread moves fast They're considering it, but nothing concrete yet. Latest word is Britain is going forward by the end of this week, Poland offering 10 Leopards as well, plus the US doing training of 500 Ukrainian troops on maneuver warfare in Europe each month.
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:49:23 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: German gas infographic: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/107chd5/russia_supplied_641_of_germanys_gas_in_may_2021/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 That makes me happy, but keep in mind that the new supply is MUCH more expensive than before. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:50:29 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Yeah, it'd be totally easy for somebody to sell M2 ODS Bradleys on the black market. Totally wouldn't raise any eyebrows or get any authority's attention. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Originally Posted By Chaingun: I get it The US ships 50 BFVs and UA might see 1 arrive Yeah, it'd be totally easy for somebody to sell M2 ODS Bradleys on the black market. Totally wouldn't raise any eyebrows or get any authority's attention. Considering that, in Europe, they pretty much have to be moved long-distance by rail or water, and the Ukrainian seaports are mostly closed, smuggling them out would be a tad difficult
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Posted: 1/9/2023 4:58:37 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote History Fastest Howitzer in The World - Archer Artillery System |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 5:02:41 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: 9 min ago. Part 2 video.
If you tell me you're a pipe hitter, this Is what I think you do. |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 5:09:43 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: And we can hope they have the sense to send the M919 DU rounds and not the inferior M791 tungsten rounds. Reports from Desert Storm with the M791 were that it was not effective on heavy armor like the M919. GD (the one with the toys) has a new M919-style tungsten round that has not been adopted (?). Finned long rod like the M919, and a smokin' V - 4,560fps (1,390mps). https://www.gd-ots.com/munitions/medium-caliber-ammunition/25mm-tungsten-apfsds-t/ Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By Dominion21: Personally, I do not believe the actual T-62s and T-72s which are physically present in Ukraine right now, will stay in the fight for long after receiving a burst of 25mm fire from a Ukrainian Bradley. If nothing else, the exterior view ports and sensors on a T-72 will be quickly scrubbed off if hit by a Bradley's 25mm. More distant Russian tanks face the TOW. As for doubts about setting things on fire, it's not classified as to what DU does if it manages to penetrate: it becomes a potent incendiary. And we can hope they have the sense to send the M919 DU rounds and not the inferior M791 tungsten rounds. Reports from Desert Storm with the M791 were that it was not effective on heavy armor like the M919. GD (the one with the toys) has a new M919-style tungsten round that has not been adopted (?). Finned long rod like the M919, and a smokin' V - 4,560fps (1,390mps). https://www.gd-ots.com/munitions/medium-caliber-ammunition/25mm-tungsten-apfsds-t/ in 1986, that is what I was taught as a M2A0 gunner. |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 5:09:44 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: That makes me happy, but keep in mind that the new supply is MUCH more expensive than before. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Originally Posted By Capta: German gas infographic: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/107chd5/russia_supplied_641_of_germanys_gas_in_may_2021/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 That makes me happy, but keep in mind that the new supply is MUCH more expensive than before. This will get buried in this thread fast, BUT, if you wanted a global energy thread I can chime in. New supplies will go down when it's in a non-emergency situation, such as over the next 9-12 months. |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 5:10:00 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: That makes me happy, but keep in mind that the new supply is MUCH more expensive than before. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Originally Posted By Capta: German gas infographic: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/107chd5/russia_supplied_641_of_germanys_gas_in_may_2021/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 That makes me happy, but keep in mind that the new supply is MUCH more expensive than before. Not nearly as expensive as being chummy with Russia could be. |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 5:18:09 PM EDT
[#32]
"Ukraine soldier says cold weather helps track Russian movements north of Bakhmut  Ukraine soldier says cold weather helps track Russian movements north of Bakhmut |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 5:19:46 PM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 1/9/2023 5:24:11 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: We'll see if this gets legs fast with the British offer of Challenger 2.
Poland I believe U.K. I’m inclined to believe but I doubt most of Europe will emulate Poland’s example. But I’m only half lucid, taking pain pills waiting for this leg to heal. So my posts might be full retard |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 5:26:18 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
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Posted: 1/9/2023 5:33:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: iggy1337]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: That makes me happy, but keep in mind that the new supply is MUCH more expensive than before. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Originally Posted By Capta: German gas infographic: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/107chd5/russia_supplied_641_of_germanys_gas_in_may_2021/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 That makes me happy, but keep in mind that the new supply is MUCH more expensive than before. Dunno about specifically about Germany but we have like punitaive taxes here on gas/energy. 26% of the gas price is the actual gas the rest is all goes to the government in one form or antother. Dutch.gov has been fiddleing with the tax rate to even out the gas costs. It's all BS anyway because NL has one of the biggest gas fields in the world but we reduce pumping to placate the feelz of the limp wristed part of the populace. It's all irrelevant anyway becuase having a little extra money and throwing free people is simpley not an option |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 5:35:01 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
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USA
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Posted: 1/9/2023 5:38:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dominion21]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OBird: I’m curious how effective a lot of these drone-dropped munitions are. I mean, they must have to be pretty light. A lot of videos with direct or near-direct hits, with orcs moving around after. Who knows for how long though… Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OBird: Originally Posted By general_cluster: Now I am wondering if those guys just didn't get startled and trip over themselves. Front left guys goes down, but seems to be getting up near end of the video. Doesn't seem to be nursing any wounds. Front right guy walks off screen, suggesting he isn't really hurt. I’m curious how effective a lot of these drone-dropped munitions are. I mean, they must have to be pretty light. A lot of videos with direct or near-direct hits, with orcs moving around after. Who knows for how long though… What was dropped is very clearly a mortar munition or mortar bomb. It’s possible is was a U.S. 60mm bom for the M224 system. I checked the Russian production (current) and the smallest they currently field appears to be the 82mm. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_infantry_mortars However, my guess is an 82mm mention would have had a more drastic, immediate and devastating effect on those men (but I could be wrong). As for other Ukr drone-dropped munitions, the most typical seems to be the modified Russian 30mm VOG-17 grenade made for their belt fed full auto launcher.  Next would maybe either a standard Russian hand grenade or maybe the modified US 40mm launcher grenade. Subjectively, the Russian 30mm munition seems to have an immediate and horrible effect on the Orcs, with a surprisingly large injury radius for such a small diameter. |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 5:44:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CB1: I would fire and the running gear and engine deck, to stop it, maybe try to disable the turret, then let the infantry kill it. That is of course TOW use was not practical. in 1986, that is what I was taught as a M2A0 gunner. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CB1: Originally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By Dominion21: Personally, I do not believe the actual T-62s and T-72s which are physically present in Ukraine right now, will stay in the fight for long after receiving a burst of 25mm fire from a Ukrainian Bradley. If nothing else, the exterior view ports and sensors on a T-72 will be quickly scrubbed off if hit by a Bradley's 25mm. More distant Russian tanks face the TOW. As for doubts about setting things on fire, it's not classified as to what DU does if it manages to penetrate: it becomes a potent incendiary. And we can hope they have the sense to send the M919 DU rounds and not the inferior M791 tungsten rounds. Reports from Desert Storm with the M791 were that it was not effective on heavy armor like the M919. GD (the one with the toys) has a new M919-style tungsten round that has not been adopted (?). Finned long rod like the M919, and a smokin' V - 4,560fps (1,390mps). https://www.gd-ots.com/munitions/medium-caliber-ammunition/25mm-tungsten-apfsds-t/ in 1986, that is what I was taught as a M2A0 gunner. 
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Posted: 1/9/2023 5:45:14 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: Far more than 50 Bradleys headed over? That makes me happy. As far as the ACTUAL performance/ armor penetration of the 25mm DU rounds? - that is classified information. Which leaves us to speculate. But we have some anecdotal evidence: - take another look at the quotes Jack67 took the time to post in the middle of page 3288. Personally, I do not believe the actual T-62s and T-72s which are physically present in Ukraine right now, will stay in the fight for long after receiving a burst of 25mm fire from a Ukrainian Bradley. If nothing else, the exterior view ports and sensors on a T-72 will be quickly scrubbed off if hit by a Bradley’s 25mm. More distant Russian tanks face the TOW. As for doubts about setting things on fire, it’s not classified as to what DU does if it manages to penetrate: it becomes a potent incendiary. Only time will tell for sure. I believe the 50+ Bradleys will eventually be game changers, negating nearly all of Russia’s armor. There’s a mathematical formula for calculating roughly the penetration depth of an APFSDS projectile and it says 93mm. There are very few places on the front of a T-72 that would fall victim to that and the gun isn’t accurate enough to stack rounds in the same place except at extremely close range. Now, are they sawing through armor with long bursts at 50m? Maybe. But that doesn’t scale. Only a small percentage of enemy armor is going to let you do that without killing you. |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 5:51:19 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Somebody posted some stuff about them a while back. I know exactly nothing about these rascals, whether they’re good or they suck… but they are neat looking. |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 5:51:50 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryThat's pretty badass
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USA
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Posted: 1/9/2023 6:01:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dominion21]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: There’s a mathematical formula for calculating roughly the penetration depth of an APFSDS projectile and it says 93mm. There are very few places on the front of a T-72 that would fall victim to that and the gun isn’t accurate enough to stack rounds in the same place except at extremely close range. Now, are they sawing through armor with long bursts at 50m? Maybe. But that doesn’t scale. Only a small percentage of enemy armor is going to let you do that without killing you. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By Dominion21: Far more than 50 Bradleys headed over? That makes me happy. As far as the ACTUAL performance/ armor penetration of the 25mm DU rounds? - that is classified information. Which leaves us to speculate. But we have some anecdotal evidence: - take another look at the quotes Jack67 took the time to post in the middle of page 3288. Personally, I do not believe the actual T-62s and T-72s which are physically present in Ukraine right now, will stay in the fight for long after receiving a burst of 25mm fire from a Ukrainian Bradley. If nothing else, the exterior view ports and sensors on a T-72 will be quickly scrubbed off if hit by a Bradley’s 25mm. More distant Russian tanks face the TOW. As for doubts about setting things on fire, it’s not classified as to what DU does if it manages to penetrate: it becomes a potent incendiary. Only time will tell for sure. I believe the 50+ Bradleys will eventually be game changers, negating nearly all of Russia’s armor. There’s a mathematical formula for calculating roughly the penetration depth of an APFSDS projectile and it says 93mm. There are very few places on the front of a T-72 that would fall victim to that and the gun isn’t accurate enough to stack rounds in the same place except at extremely close range. Now, are they sawing through armor with long bursts at 50m? Maybe. But that doesn’t scale. Only a small percentage of enemy armor is going to let you do that without killing you. I can appreciate why many stick to the adages about the best ways to attack tanks (from the air, from artillery range, etc) and how the worst place to be is facing the frontal armor. Finding yourself facing a tank head-on, you would ideally want another tank or a concealed ATGM to try to defeat the thickest frontal armor. Even then, sound tank doctrine would never leave a single tank alone facing the enemy, so following your successful shot, a second enemy tank would take you out soon after. But so far in Ukraine, I have rarely seen the Russians employ sound tank doctrine. Hopefully the Ukrainians can exploit that, and take out as many T72s as feasible, without losing many Bradleys, and hopefully they never have to go head to head with a T72. NOTE: as far as the number of vital seconds in an encounter with a tank, it looks like the TOW is much slower to deploy and fire than the Bushmaster cannon. |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 6:16:48 PM EDT
[#44]
 
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Posted: 1/9/2023 6:21:10 PM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 1/9/2023 6:24:26 PM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 1/9/2023 6:27:13 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SoCalExile:
Sounds pretty bad over there. Hope Ukraine can stop the bleeding. |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 6:28:14 PM EDT
[#48]
36 min ago.
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Posted: 1/9/2023 6:40:48 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Marketing stunt. God bless them if they kill a single orc. |
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Posted: 1/9/2023 6:45:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7empest]
[#50]
So damn depressing.
 Hopefully the Ukrainians can recover the situation and push the orcs back.And damn it the West needs to stop debating and slow rolling shit. Give the Ukrainians the fucking tools already and they will do the job. |
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