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Posted: 2/8/2022 6:16:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GreyHat: It's no worse than the New Yorker or NYT. Just a different faction's organ. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GreyHat: Originally Posted By Wreckshooter: The fact that you know what RT is even saying does not speak well to your credibility. It's no worse than the New Yorker or NYT. Just a different faction's organ. No. RT is official, funded by the Russian government, State propaganda. It exists SOLELY for that purpose, and as Russia goes to war, it is a tool of the Russian Information Operations campaign. Anyone who can’t see that is merely a success story of the Russian propaganda campaign |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 6:17:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Cincinnatus]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Who was more honest when reporting the RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA stories about Trump? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Who was more honest when reporting the RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA stories about Trump? But then the next thing you know, you’re accepting some of the other things they say… RT actually had some valid points even though they had different motives than me. It is good to get different perspectives to information to make an educated decision. The RT motive = Russia’s motive. They are one and the same. The only “perspective” you get from RT is the perspective that Russia wants you to have. They want you to regurgitate their “valid points” |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 6:33:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tboy]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: Bother what kind of Ukrainians? The ones you hang out with? Black and red have been part of western Ukrainian history and culture for hundreds of years but you wouldn't know that due to your lack of understanding of Ukrainian history. The fact that you ARE THERE is no confirmation that you know anything about Ukrainian history and would be the same as me walking up to an illegal Mexican in California and expecting him to recite the Federalist Papers and tell me about the life of Patrick Henry because he is here. A lot that comes out of your mouth is derogatory about Ukrainians just like your crack that you would'nt say that Ukrainians are a strong people. You were demeaning about the Ukrainian Insurgent Army's effectiveness, you state that all of the Ukrainians you know are basically unpatriotic and won't fight (which I'm starting to believe that is who YOU associate with, bunch of losers), you made the ridiculous statement that western Ukrainians don't really care about the Holodomor genocide of between 7-12 million Ukrainians when the western part of the country is where the most hard-core nationalists have ALWAYS lived. Your reasoning that western Ukrainians don't care about it because they were under Polish rule during the genocide is laughable. You also don't seem to understand that western Ukraine switched between German and Russian rule back and forth during WWII. Most of my Ukrainian friends I went to 8 years if Ukrainian parochial school with in the 1970s had families (like mine) who were from western Ukraine and almost all of them had posters or paintings hanging somewhere (especially at their grandparents' houses - mine did also) honoring those who were killed in the Holodomor. The church I went to even had a sculpture depicting it. You may be living there, but you are getting some BS fed, have distorted way of "seeing" things, OR you are here posting for another purpose. Please stop telling me how I don't know Ukrainian history. How much of the history you read has been revisionist or hints of propaganda? Be honest. You are reading old history books and living in the past, refusing to see the current. Ukraine from the old days is not Ukraine from today, as the United States isn't the country now that it was in the past. I'm telling you first hand accounts from talking to ACTUAL Ukrainians. Many love their country but most of the younger generation would prefer to leave it behind. You are correct. I mostly talk with younger Ukrainians since the older ones with the Soviet mindset (your age) are laughed at as being backwards. Do you want me to tell you about the rampant drinking problem here and how many people tell me how their fathers are miserable drunks or died an early death due to their drinking? In my book, a man that buries himself in the bottle and abuses his family is not STRONG. The younger generation sees this and many want nothing to do with this. I think looking West helps with this mindset. I understand that you are ethnically Ukrainian and you want to only think and say wonderful things about a country that your family fled from but you need to be honest with yourself and see things how they really are here. MISERABLE. Locals constantly ask me why I wanted to move here and then tell me how much they want to move away. I will admit that the young guys are in great shape but some of the ladies have hinted that they do tend to lack in other areas. Ever hear the saying "Never meet your hero"? Tell us more about this picture since you're a history buff: 
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Posted: 2/8/2022 6:36:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: . Yes, that is how propaganda works. You are the target audience. You agree with some of what they say. You LIKE some of what they say. But then the next thing you know, you’re accepting some of the other things they say… The RT motive = Russia’s motive. They are one and the same. The only “perspective” you get from RT is the perspective that Russia wants you to have. They want you to regurgitate their “valid points” Even though many here view RT as the enemy, it has done some truthful reporting on various topics. As a side note, I didn't realize that there is an American RT division which recently interviewed an American YouTuber living in Kiev. He doesn't watch the news or know anything about RT so agreed to an interview. He was honest in his interview which apparently was turned around, making many people angry at him and forcing him to apologize. |
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NM, USA
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Posted: 2/8/2022 6:37:04 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: No. RT is official, funded by the Russian government, State propaganda. It exists SOLELY for that purpose, and as Russia goes to war, it is a tool of the Russian Information Operations campaign. Anyone who can’t see that is merely a success story of the Russian propaganda campaign Going official is a mark in its favor. Our regime coordinates less officially, so guys like you lap up crap you'd reject if it had a brand label. |
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UKR
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Posted: 2/8/2022 6:37:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: I'm in the "safe" zone where many people feel safe and refugees fled to so there probably are different perspectives here. I think labeling them STRONG is an overstatement but I have met some muscular girls here. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By WildBill375: I see none of that in Central Ukraine. It's probably the crowd you are hanging out with. There are hundreds of veterans of this war living here who own personal firearms and are willing to use them. I see lots of boys doing their duty and serving in the military. There are several monuments dedicated to the heroes who paid the ultimate sacrifice all around my city. Ukrainians are a proud strong people. I'm in the "safe" zone where many people feel safe and refugees fled to so there probably are different perspectives here. I think labeling them STRONG is an overstatement but I have met some muscular girls here. Oleksii Novikov world's strongest man Klitschko brothers heavyweight boxing champions Lyudmila Pavlichenko one of the most deadly soviet snipers Just to name a few.... There are a lot of strong and tall men in this country. More common than I remember seeing stateside. RT News is Russian propaganda news network. Any moron knows this. I remember a while back you stated that you had a go bag and were ready to run away at any sign of war.... and additionally you don't speak Russian or Ukrainian. I don't think you're getting a full ukrainian perspective. Red and black UPA flag carrying people are not evil people. They are proud patriotic people that love their country and most are willing to die to protect their home and country. |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 6:51:59 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Please stop telling me how I don't know Ukrainian history. How much of the history you read has been revisionist or hints of propaganda? Be honest. You are reading old history books and living in the past, refusing to see the current. Ukraine from the old days is not Ukraine from today, as the United States isn't the country now that it was in the past. I'm telling you first hand accounts from talking to ACTUAL Ukrainians. Many love their country but most of the younger generation would prefer to leave it behind. You are correct. I mostly talk with younger Ukrainians since the older ones with the Soviet mindset (your age) are laughed at as being backwards. Do you want me to tell you about the rampant drinking problem here and how many people tell me how their fathers are miserable drunks or died an early death due to their drinking? In my book, a man that buries himself in the bottle and abuses his family is not STRONG. The younger generation sees this and many want nothing to do with this. I think looking West helps with this mindset. I understand that you are ethnically Ukrainian and you want to only think and say wonderful things about a country that your family fled from but you need to be honest with yourself and see things how they really are here. MISERABLE. Locals constantly ask me why I wanted to move here and then tell me how much they want to move away. I will admit that the young guys are in great shape but some of the ladies have hinted that they do tend to lack in other areas. Ever head the saying "Never meet your hero"? Tell us more about this picture since you're a history buff: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Lipniki_massacre.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: Bother what kind of Ukrainians? The ones you hang out with? Black and red have been part of western Ukrainian history and culture for hundreds of years but you wouldn't know that due to your lack of understanding of Ukrainian history. The fact that you ARE THERE is no confirmation that you know anything about Ukrainian history and would be the same as me walking up to an illegal Mexican in California and expecting him to recite the Federalist Papers and tell me about the life of Patrick Henry because he is here. A lot that comes out of your mouth is derogatory about Ukrainians just like your crack that you would'nt say that Ukrainians are a strong people. You were demeaning about the Ukrainian Insurgent Army's effectiveness, you state that all of the Ukrainians you know are basically unpatriotic and won't fight (which I'm starting to believe that is who YOU associate with, bunch of losers), you made the ridiculous statement that western Ukrainians don't really care about the Holodomor genocide of between 7-12 million Ukrainians when the western part of the country is where the most hard-core nationalists have ALWAYS lived. Your reasoning that western Ukrainians don't care about it because they were under Polish rule during the genocide is laughable. You also don't seem to understand that western Ukraine switched between German and Russian rule back and forth during WWII. Most of my Ukrainian friends I went to 8 years if Ukrainian parochial school with in the 1970s had families (like mine) who were from western Ukraine and almost all of them had posters or paintings hanging somewhere (especially at their grandparents' houses - mine did also) honoring those who were killed in the Holodomor. The church I went to even had a sculpture depicting it. You may be living there, but you are getting some BS fed, have distorted way of "seeing" things, OR you are here posting for another purpose. Please stop telling me how I don't know Ukrainian history. How much of the history you read has been revisionist or hints of propaganda? Be honest. You are reading old history books and living in the past, refusing to see the current. Ukraine from the old days is not Ukraine from today, as the United States isn't the country now that it was in the past. I'm telling you first hand accounts from talking to ACTUAL Ukrainians. Many love their country but most of the younger generation would prefer to leave it behind. You are correct. I mostly talk with younger Ukrainians since the older ones with the Soviet mindset (your age) are laughed at as being backwards. Do you want me to tell you about the rampant drinking problem here and how many people tell me how their fathers are miserable drunks or died an early death due to their drinking? In my book, a man that buries himself in the bottle and abuses his family is not STRONG. The younger generation sees this and many want nothing to do with this. I think looking West helps with this mindset. I understand that you are ethnically Ukrainian and you want to only think and say wonderful things about a country that your family fled from but you need to be honest with yourself and see things how they really are here. MISERABLE. Locals constantly ask me why I wanted to move here and then tell me how much they want to move away. I will admit that the young guys are in great shape but some of the ladies have hinted that they do tend to lack in other areas. Ever head the saying "Never meet your hero"? Tell us more about this picture since you're a history buff: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Lipniki_massacre.jpg My whole life from in the late 1960s through today is filled with REAL Ukrainians who were born there. Funny how you rarely say anything about the Holodomor genocide and how terrible it was when its brought up. Or ever commented about how many Ukrainians were killed in WW2 by Germans or by Russian communists after WW1 when they declared independence. Or about how cruel Polish occupation was for decades. Never anything about these events. Just criticism about Ukrainians, and their history. If its anything positive about Ukrainians, you count it as revisionist history - just like any Russian would. Thanks Ivan, you saved me the trouble of wasting any more time outing you. RT News (which you have defended in at least three posts) would love an American foreign corespondent in western Ukraine - they probably pay pretty well. |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 6:54:35 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WildBill375: Oleksii Novikov world's strongest man Klitschko brothers heavyweight boxing champions Lyudmila Pavlichenko one of the most deadly soviet snipers Just to name a few.... There are a lot of strong and tall men in this country. More common than I remember seeing stateside. RT News is Russian propaganda news network. Any moron knows this. I remember a while back you stated that you had a go bag and were ready to run away at any sign of war.... and additionally you don't speak Russian or Ukrainian. I don't think you're getting a full ukrainian perspective. Red and black UPA flag carrying people are not evil people. They are proud patriotic people that love their country and most are willing to die to protect their home and country. It depends how the word "STRONG" is viewed. Physically, I do see many more strong guys because they work as day laborers and have a hard life, unlike the weaker American counterparts which sit behind a desk, making great money, then coming over to take the beautiful ladies back to America with them. I interpreted "STRONG" more on a mental note. That was my impression. We each read a statement how we like. I never said I had a Go Bag and NEVER said I was going to run away at any sign of war. If that was the case, I would have already left, like others here. Actually, I did leave 2 weeks ago and came back which surprised/upset many people. I did say that I love my HOT SHOWERS so that would factor in. My top priority is to ensure those that I love are safe from harm before I decide what to do. I'm also not going to say what I'm going to do, since this is a public forum. I don't speak Russian, Ukrainian, or Polish but I do talk with MANY Ukrainians that are very happy to tell me everything. That's one thing I enjoy about Ukrainians is the willingness and ability to have ANY conversation in a calm, logical manner, discussing viewpoints and pointing out flaws. They are very respectful and honest about many things so they tend to be harder on themselves so I guess that's why I seem to come across as attacking them. They do a pretty good job doing that themselves. I never said the Red/Black flag carrying people were evil. I am just telling you there is more to that movement than Ukrainian patriotism from what I'm trying to learn from those that oppose it. When I first moved here I thought everyone should be Red/Black but after talking with a larger segment of the population, not everyone shares that belief. (And I'm not going to lecture them, telling them that they are wrong in their beliefs) It doesn't make them any less patriotic. I just don't want to poke a hornet's nest because I've opened that can of worms before and it didn't go so well. With that said, there are many anti Red/Black that are extremely patriotic Ukrainians that would give their lives for this country. |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 7:01:05 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Even though many here view RT as the enemy, it has done some truthful reporting on various topics. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: . Yes, that is how propaganda works. You are the target audience. You agree with some of what they say. You LIKE some of what they say. But then the next thing you know, you’re accepting some of the other things they say… The RT motive = Russia’s motive. They are one and the same. The only “perspective” you get from RT is the perspective that Russia wants you to have. They want you to regurgitate their “valid points” Even though many here view RT as the enemy, it has done some truthful reporting on various topics. Russian, state-funded propaganda. |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 7:07:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Cincinnatus]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GreyHat: Going official is a mark in its favor. Our regime coordinates less officially, so guys like you lap up crap you'd reject if it had a brand label. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GreyHat: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: No. RT is official, funded by the Russian government, State propaganda. It exists SOLELY for that purpose, and as Russia goes to war, it is a tool of the Russian Information Operations campaign. Anyone who can’t see that is merely a success story of the Russian propaganda campaign Going official is a mark in its favor. Our regime coordinates less officially, so guys like you lap up crap you'd reject if it had a brand label. Here’s the thing… I don’t watch or listen to Leftist media. Nor do I regurgitate the talking points that are pushed by the MSM. Not now. Not ever. However, we DO see posters here in this very thread who watch RT, apologize for RT and are regurgitating Russian talking points. I guess RT and Russia are more effective. |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 7:08:38 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: My whole life from in the late 1960s through today is filled with REAL Ukrainians who were born there. Funny how you rarely say anything about the Holodomor genocide and how terrible it was when its brought up. Or ever commented about how many Ukrainians were killed in WW2 by Germans or by Russian communists after WW1 when they declared independence. Or about how cruel Polish occupation was for decades. Never anything about these events. Just criticism about Ukrainians, and their history. If its anything positive about Ukrainians, you count it as revisionist history - just like any Russian would. Thanks Ivan, you saved me the trouble of wasting any more time outing you. RT News (which you have defended in at least three posts) would love an American foreign corespondent in western Ukraine - they probably pay pretty well. First, I'm the furthest from being IVAN. Here's a story I was told when I first visited EASTERN Ukraine. My MIL's boss's dad was found in a pile of dead body's during the Holodomor. He was only 6 months old when rescued from being left for dead. He then went to fight against the Germans and survived. Americans like to "one up" one another by telling you how much bigger/better things are but those in the East proudly told me how miserable their lives were and still are. It's just depressing. The Western part of Ukraine isn't near as depressing so I wasn't told those stories because many people here don't have any direct family members that died so it is not as personal to them. You are living in the past with Ukrainians that fled the country. I'm living 50 years in the future in a country that you have refused to visit. I accept that you know your Ukrainian history books so you need to accept that I am living in a country that no longer exists when your family left in the 1940s. Just because I said that RT has been factual on some reports while the ENTIRE US MSM were either silent or actively lying does not make me a Russian apologist. It just makes me a person that wanted to find as much information as possible so I could make the best educated decision. And as I previously stated, I saw those links from other ARFCOM posters. Still waiting on your history lesson from that picture. You know what it is. |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 7:13:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: Russian, state-funded propaganda. Which countered Leftist funded MSM propaganda that was spreading lies about Trump. You and I might not like the source of the information but that shouldn't discredit it if it is the truth. The only time that I have watched any RT was directed from other forums (like ARFCOM). |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 7:18:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Which countered Leftist funded MSM propaganda that was spreading lies about Trump. You and I might not like the source of the information but that shouldn't discredit it if it is the truth. The only time that I have watched any RT was directed from other forums (like ARFCOM). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Russian, state-funded propaganda. Which countered Leftist funded MSM propaganda that was spreading lies about Trump. You and I might not like the source of the information but that shouldn't discredit it if it is the truth. The only time that I have watched any RT was directed from other forums (like ARFCOM). Never watch Russian state-funded propaganda. Period. Never praise it as being “the truth” |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 7:30:00 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Still waiting on your history lesson from that picture. You know what it is. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: Still waiting on your history lesson from that picture. You know what it is. I am impressed by your tenacity here. And appreciate reading your input. It is spot on and echos what my relatives in Ukraine say. |
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UKR
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Posted: 2/8/2022 7:32:24 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: It depends how the word "STRONG" is viewed. Physically, I do see many more strong guys because they work as day laborers and have a hard life, unlike the weaker American counterparts which sit behind a desk, making great money, then coming over to take the beautiful ladies back to America with them. I interpreted "STRONG" more on a mental note. That was my impression. We each read a statement how we like. I never said I had a Go Bag and NEVER said I was going to run away at any sign of war. If that was the case, I would have already left, like others here. Actually, I did leave 2 weeks ago and came back which surprised/upset many people. I did say that I love my HOT SHOWERS so that would factor in. My top priority is to ensure those that I love are safe from harm before I decide what to do. I'm also not going to say what I'm going to do, since this is a public forum. I don't speak Russian, Ukrainian, or Polish but I do talk with MANY Ukrainians that are very happy to tell me everything. That's one thing I enjoy about Ukrainians is the willingness and ability to have ANY conversation in a calm, logical manner, discussing viewpoints and pointing out flaws. They are very respectful and honest about many things so they tend to be harder on themselves so I guess that's why I seem to come across as attacking them. They do a pretty good job doing that themselves. I never said the Red/Black flag carrying people were evil. I am just telling you there is more to that movement than Ukrainian patriotism from what I'm trying to learn from those that oppose it. When I first moved here I thought everyone should be Red/Black but after talking with a larger segment of the population, not everyone shares that belief. (And I'm not going to lecture them, telling them that they are wrong in their beliefs) It doesn't make them any less patriotic. I just don't want to poke a hornet's nest because I've opened that can of worms before and it didn't go so well. With that said, there are many anti Red/Black that are extremely patriotic Ukrainians that would give their lives for this country. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By WildBill375: Oleksii Novikov world's strongest man Klitschko brothers heavyweight boxing champions Lyudmila Pavlichenko one of the most deadly soviet snipers Just to name a few.... There are a lot of strong and tall men in this country. More common than I remember seeing stateside. RT News is Russian propaganda news network. Any moron knows this. I remember a while back you stated that you had a go bag and were ready to run away at any sign of war.... and additionally you don't speak Russian or Ukrainian. I don't think you're getting a full ukrainian perspective. Red and black UPA flag carrying people are not evil people. They are proud patriotic people that love their country and most are willing to die to protect their home and country. It depends how the word "STRONG" is viewed. Physically, I do see many more strong guys because they work as day laborers and have a hard life, unlike the weaker American counterparts which sit behind a desk, making great money, then coming over to take the beautiful ladies back to America with them. I interpreted "STRONG" more on a mental note. That was my impression. We each read a statement how we like. I never said I had a Go Bag and NEVER said I was going to run away at any sign of war. If that was the case, I would have already left, like others here. Actually, I did leave 2 weeks ago and came back which surprised/upset many people. I did say that I love my HOT SHOWERS so that would factor in. My top priority is to ensure those that I love are safe from harm before I decide what to do. I'm also not going to say what I'm going to do, since this is a public forum. I don't speak Russian, Ukrainian, or Polish but I do talk with MANY Ukrainians that are very happy to tell me everything. That's one thing I enjoy about Ukrainians is the willingness and ability to have ANY conversation in a calm, logical manner, discussing viewpoints and pointing out flaws. They are very respectful and honest about many things so they tend to be harder on themselves so I guess that's why I seem to come across as attacking them. They do a pretty good job doing that themselves. I never said the Red/Black flag carrying people were evil. I am just telling you there is more to that movement than Ukrainian patriotism from what I'm trying to learn from those that oppose it. When I first moved here I thought everyone should be Red/Black but after talking with a larger segment of the population, not everyone shares that belief. (And I'm not going to lecture them, telling them that they are wrong in their beliefs) It doesn't make them any less patriotic. I just don't want to poke a hornet's nest because I've opened that can of worms before and it didn't go so well. With that said, there are many anti Red/Black that are extremely patriotic Ukrainians that would give their lives for this country. Originally Posted By Tboy: There's a reason why so many folks from Eastern Ukraine (Dnipro) are moving to Lviv. If/When more fighting breaks out, Dnipro will be one of the areas where they'll be evacuating the wounded, which was a very stressful situation for friends of mine. I moved to Lviv because I found it to be the most beautiful & walkable cities in Ukraine (with international airport). Having it be the furthest from the Russian border sealed the deal. I keep a stash of cash and enough gas in my car to make a run for the border if things do get bad. I am tempted to buy a few Ladas just to piss off the locals so you can envy me! https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Is-there-anything-anyone-can-do-to-stop-Russia-from-taking-Ukraine-if-they-want-it-/5-2510595/?page=3 It's 1:30am and this is just drama. I'm going to bed. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 2/8/2022 7:55:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Charging_Handle]
[#16]
Evidently Zelensky has rejected whatever proposal Putin and Macron put together yesterday. Macron must have suggested giving up more concessions than Ukraine was willing to go along with.
Dude has balls. I can respect that. He doesn't make a bad deal just to say he's made a deal, like some other shmucks we are familiar with (Obama, Biden). Zelensky and the Ukrainian leadership seem much more calm about this situation than most western leaders, to include Biden and Macron. Biden's people are running around in a panic saying an invasion is imminent. But most Ukrainians don't seem to feel that way. Maybe it is a case of wishful thinking on their part. Or maybe they just have a better feel for the Russian mindset and Putin than we do over here? |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 8:24:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BerettaGuy]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: First, I'm the furthest from being IVAN. Here's a story I was told when I first visited EASTERN Ukraine. My MIL's boss's dad was found in a pile of dead body's during the Holodomor. He was only 6 months old when rescued from being left for dead. He then went to fight against the Germans and survived. Americans like to "one up" one another by telling you how much bigger/better things are but those in the East proudly told me how miserable their lives were and still are. It's just depressing. The Western part of Ukraine isn't near as depressing so I wasn't told those stories because many people here don't have any direct family members that died so it is not as personal to them. You are living in the past with Ukrainians that fled the country. I'm living 50 years in the future in a country that you have refused to visit. I accept that you know your Ukrainian history books so you need to accept that I am living in a country that no longer exists when your family left in the 1940s. Just because I said that RT has been factual on some reports while the ENTIRE US MSM were either silent or actively lying does not make me a Russian apologist. It just makes me a person that wanted to find as much information as possible so I could make the best educated decision. And as I previously stated, I saw those links from other ARFCOM posters. Still waiting on your history lesson from that picture. You know what it is. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: My whole life from in the late 1960s through today is filled with REAL Ukrainians who were born there. Funny how you rarely say anything about the Holodomor genocide and how terrible it was when its brought up. Or ever commented about how many Ukrainians were killed in WW2 by Germans or by Russian communists after WW1 when they declared independence. Or about how cruel Polish occupation was for decades. Never anything about these events. Just criticism about Ukrainians, and their history. If its anything positive about Ukrainians, you count it as revisionist history - just like any Russian would. Thanks Ivan, you saved me the trouble of wasting any more time outing you. RT News (which you have defended in at least three posts) would love an American foreign corespondent in western Ukraine - they probably pay pretty well. First, I'm the furthest from being IVAN. Here's a story I was told when I first visited EASTERN Ukraine. My MIL's boss's dad was found in a pile of dead body's during the Holodomor. He was only 6 months old when rescued from being left for dead. He then went to fight against the Germans and survived. Americans like to "one up" one another by telling you how much bigger/better things are but those in the East proudly told me how miserable their lives were and still are. It's just depressing. The Western part of Ukraine isn't near as depressing so I wasn't told those stories because many people here don't have any direct family members that died so it is not as personal to them. You are living in the past with Ukrainians that fled the country. I'm living 50 years in the future in a country that you have refused to visit. I accept that you know your Ukrainian history books so you need to accept that I am living in a country that no longer exists when your family left in the 1940s. Just because I said that RT has been factual on some reports while the ENTIRE US MSM were either silent or actively lying does not make me a Russian apologist. It just makes me a person that wanted to find as much information as possible so I could make the best educated decision. And as I previously stated, I saw those links from other ARFCOM posters. Still waiting on your history lesson from that picture. You know what it is. Had to eat dinner, not ignoring you or your Russian buddy from WI who just chimed in who has Russian relatives in Ukraine. Of course I know that photo. Are you prepared to discuss what led up to it? Are you prepared to discuss what went on for decades before Volyn?: 1) Polish occupation of Ukraine for decades 2) Polish persecution of Orthodox Catholics AND shutting down/closing their churches 3) Polish government banning the use of Ukrainian Cyrillic and language 4) Polish government confiscating farms owned by Ukrainians and giving them to Polish farmers 5) Polish government evicting hundreds of Ukrainians from their homes (in each town) making them homeless only to give the homes to Polish families therefore taking over towns 6) Polish government disarming Ukrainians (you know gun confiscation) 7) Polish government taking over Ukrainian schools, forbidding Ukrainian language, and forbidding Ukrainian history unless the Polish government approved it 8) Polish authorities beating, killing and imprisoning Ukrainians for being Ukrainian. 9) Polish government banning certain Ukrainian holidays, customs, artwork, etc. First, I am not (and never have been) for any atrocities in war against any innocent children, or any of the elderly and women who are not partaking in the fighting so I do not condone any of that. What you are trying to do is to NOT discuss any of the points I made 1 though 9. Second, why did you not bring up any of the massacres by the Poles against Ukrainians or the tyrannical oppression??? I see... the Ukrainians you hang with only talk about how bad Ukrainians are and how fake their history is. |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 8:38:19 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Even though many here view RT as the enemy, it has done some truthful reporting on various topics. As a side note, I didn't realize that there is an American RT division which recently interviewed an American YouTuber living in Kiev. He doesn't watch the news or know anything about RT so agreed to an interview. He was honest in his interview which apparently was turned around, making many people angry at him and forcing him to apologize. Tboy has given me a lot of advice before my trips to Ukraine, and most of it was accurate, some differences. There will be these differences cause 44 million people in a place the size of Texas or going to be different, same as here in America. Some will fight, some will flea, some will not care, and some will be happy. No one piece of information is absolute or final in regards to the whole picture. It's just a data point. I'm here for the data and intel, so I can understand what may happen. |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 9:40:32 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: Ukrainian Snipers on the Front-Line: Why the US Army is Adopting Their Experience (This story, and other military-related stories like it are in the daily news links I post, but I have doubts that many here are reading them.) The woman doing the killing in the video has 10 confirmed.  Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 9:41:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Finslayer83]
[#20]
ya’ll have shit on this thread.
It was informative and most were following from a military / intel / conflict perspective. This Ukrainian dick measuring contest has gotten old. No wonder 58 pulled the thread. |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 9:45:39 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wtfboombrb: The woman doing the killing in the video has 10 confirmed. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/369185/Screenshot_2022-02-08_6_32_37_PM_png-2272248.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/369185/Screenshot_2022-02-08_6_33_15_PM_png-2272251.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/369185/Screenshot_2022-02-08_6_33_59_PM_png-2272258.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/369185/Screenshot_2022-02-08_6_32_04_PM_png-2272260.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/369185/Screenshot_2022-02-08_6_31_30_PM_png-2272262.JPG What scope is that? |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 9:50:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Cincinnatus]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83: ya’ll have shit on this thread. It was informative and most were following from a military / intel / conflict perspective. This Ukrainian dick measuring contest has gotten old. No wonder 58 pulled the thread. It still is informative over there. Observing and tracking the content and pace of propaganda IS intel. This thread serves a purpose and informs the content of THAT thread.  It’s as much an indicator of an impending attack as is the arrival and massing of BTGs. |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 9:57:08 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83: ya’ll have shit on this thread. It was informative and most were following from a military / intel / conflict perspective. This Ukrainian dick measuring contest has gotten old. No wonder 58 pulled the thread. So this thread is for military actions/operations only? Historical info and news not wanted? I will respect @LoBrau since this is his thread and all he has to do is send me an in mail and let me know he no longer wants any Ukrainian politics or history and I will be gone. |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 10:01:26 PM EDT
[#24]
Every time I think the purse-swinging has died down, it flares up again
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Posted: 2/8/2022 10:23:00 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OBird: Every time I think the purse-swinging has died down, it flares up again ARFCOM version of herpes. |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 10:37:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BerettaGuy]
[#26]
I'm out.
For those interested in daily Ukrainian news (all cover military topics), here are some Ukrainian news sources in English: Kyiv Post Ukrinform Ukrainian News.com Ukraine Today Euromaiden Press New Voice of Ukraine Official Website of the President of Ukraine |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 10:44:03 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: What scope is that? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: The woman doing the killing in the video has 10 confirmed. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/369185/Screenshot_2022-02-08_6_32_37_PM_png-2272248.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/369185/Screenshot_2022-02-08_6_33_15_PM_png-2272251.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/369185/Screenshot_2022-02-08_6_33_59_PM_png-2272258.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/369185/Screenshot_2022-02-08_6_32_04_PM_png-2272260.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/369185/Screenshot_2022-02-08_6_31_30_PM_png-2272262.JPG What scope is that? Pulsar. |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 11:08:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: So this thread is for military actions/operations only? Historical info and news not wanted? I will respect @LoBrau since this is his thread and all he has to do is send me an in mail and let me know he no longer wants any Ukrainian politics or history and I will be gone. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: Originally Posted By Finslayer83: ya’ll have shit on this thread. It was informative and most were following from a military / intel / conflict perspective. This Ukrainian dick measuring contest has gotten old. No wonder 58 pulled the thread. So this thread is for military actions/operations only? Historical info and news not wanted? I will respect @LoBrau since this is his thread and all he has to do is send me an in mail and let me know he no longer wants any Ukrainian politics or history and I will be gone. The history and context is welcome, the "no true |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 11:11:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LoBrau: The history and context is welcome, the "no true Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LoBrau: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: Originally Posted By Finslayer83: ya’ll have shit on this thread. It was informative and most were following from a military / intel / conflict perspective. This Ukrainian dick measuring contest has gotten old. No wonder 58 pulled the thread. So this thread is for military actions/operations only? Historical info and news not wanted? I will respect @LoBrau since this is his thread and all he has to do is send me an in mail and let me know he no longer wants any Ukrainian politics or history and I will be gone. The history and context is welcome, the "no true Honestly, who cares? At some point between next week and a few weeks later, this will all become moot. |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 11:38:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: So this thread is for military actions/operations only? Historical info and news not wanted? I will respect @LoBrau since this is his thread and all he has to do is send me an in mail and let me know he no longer wants any Ukrainian politics or history and I will be gone. Yes it is the Ukraine conflict thread. I appreciate your posts and think it would be good to be it’s own separate thread. This has deviated far off the rails compared to the original. |
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Posted: 2/8/2022 11:56:15 PM EDT
[#31]
 Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 2/9/2022 4:37:44 AM EDT
[#32]
so know we have a couple of Ukrainians in here arguing whos more Ukrainian...
 .. are all Ukrainians like this? if so you all wont stand a chance against an invasion, you will all be to busy fighting with each other 
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USA
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Posted: 2/9/2022 5:43:21 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: so know we have a couple of Ukrainians in here arguing whos more Ukrainian... .. are all Ukrainians like this? if so you all wont stand a chance against an invasion, you will all be to busy fighting with each other Is this not thread for Ukrainians to have conflict in? |
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Posted: 2/9/2022 8:57:00 AM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 2/9/2022 9:13:36 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: so know we have a couple of Ukrainians in here arguing whos more Ukrainian... .. are all Ukrainians like this? if so you all wont stand a chance against an invasion, you will all be to busy fighting with each other So, they're just like us americans in GD? |
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Posted: 2/9/2022 9:40:32 AM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 2/9/2022 9:45:42 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryThis guy makes good videos. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 2/9/2022 9:53:56 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: Never watch Russian state-funded propaganda. Period. Never praise it as being “the truth” If I see/hear something on RT, I wonder if it's true. I know they are trying to influence me about Russia. If I see/hear something on CNN/NBC I laugh and assume it's total BS propaganda. I know they are lying about EVERYTHING. *I dont watch either* |
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Posted: 2/9/2022 11:38:49 AM EDT
[#40]
The three 4,080-ton amphibious ships currently in the Black Sea are capable of landing 10 main battle tanks and about 350 troops ashore. The Pytor Morgunov is capable of landing 13 main battle tanks and 300 troops and can field two attack helicopters.
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2022/02/08/six-Russian-amphibious-landing-ships-headed-Black-Sea/8041644371678/ |
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USA
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Posted: 2/9/2022 11:49:27 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By voodochild: ARFCOM version of herpes. This thread is eaten up with it. |
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Posted: 2/9/2022 12:14:47 PM EDT
[#42]
Originally Posted By DirkericPitt: Is this not thread for Ukrainians to have conflict in? LMFAO Originally Posted By Sonoran_Tj: This guy makes good videos. Yeah his content is pretty damn legit, real useful info for the CONUS side of things also. |
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Posted: 2/9/2022 12:42:29 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83: Yes it is the Ukraine conflict thread. I appreciate your posts and think it would be good to be it’s own separate thread. This has deviated far off the rails compared to the original. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: So this thread is for military actions/operations only? Historical info and news not wanted? I will respect @LoBrau since this is his thread and all he has to do is send me an in mail and let me know he no longer wants any Ukrainian politics or history and I will be gone. Yes it is the Ukraine conflict thread. I appreciate your posts and think it would be good to be it’s own separate thread. This has deviated far off the rails compared to the original. I agree if folks want to argue about history, attitudes and the general muscularity of Ukrainian women start another thread. It's gone beyond annoying. This is useful and relevant to this thread....
RC-135 and E8C over Ukraine
The dick measuring not so much |
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Posted: 2/9/2022 12:46:59 PM EDT
[#44]
Looks like APC's being trucked into Kursk. Curious what they are and the paint job on the 1st one is interesting.
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Posted: 2/9/2022 1:03:40 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wreckshooter: Advance up a hardball with open fields on either side without flank protection. Check! Advance across open ground and stop in the open. Check! But I think the Russians are better now. How much better? Who knows? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wreckshooter: Originally Posted By M-1975: The is how much the Russians suck (NSFW):  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmozdOVU21M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p72KRQwYeMoAdvance up a hardball with open fields on either side without flank protection. Check! Advance across open ground and stop in the open. Check! But I think the Russians are better now. How much better? Who knows? I doubt it's very much better. I am not an SME, but my understanding is the Russian/Soviet/Russian army has always been an army of conscripts and officers. The concept of an NCO cadre is foreign to them. Sergeants are pulled out of their conscript class early after being identified as NCO material, and given special sergeant NCO training, but at the end of the term, they leave with the rest, so there is no institutional culture that carries over as we know it. Butter bars in the red army do what the US army would assign to sergeants and corporals. In simple terms, they do not have career NCOs. I've heard blips that they are trying to fix that, but they are starting from way behind. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 2/9/2022 1:20:50 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2tired2run: Looks like APC's being trucked into Kursk. Curious what they are and the paint job on the 1st one is interesting.
Those are MT-LB. Multi-purpose vehicles that usually fill support roles where BMP is their infantry fighting vehicle. Some video of them in the field recently. https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/smqrff/column_of_russian_bmp2_and_mtlb_in_the_fields/ |
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Posted: 2/9/2022 1:25:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: m24shooter]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2tired2run: Looks like APC's being trucked into Kursk. Curious what they are and the paint job on the 1st one is interesting.
Looks like ACRVs to me, but it has been a while since I had Soviet Vehicle Recognition. Looked like the profile of the turret in a couple of them:  ACRV M 19742 IV15 Russian Artillery Command and Reconnaissance Vehicle ACRV |
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Posted: 2/9/2022 1:52:03 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m24shooter: Looks like ACRVs to me, but it has been a while since I had Soviet Vehicle Recognition. Looked like the profile of the turret in a couple of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsVgzz8p3tMQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By m24shooter: Originally Posted By 2tired2run: Looks like APC's being trucked into Kursk. Curious what they are and the paint job on the 1st one is interesting.
Looks like ACRVs to me, but it has been a while since I had Soviet Vehicle Recognition. Looked like the profile of the turret in a couple of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsVgzz8p3tMI've never had Sov vehicle recognition but it kinda looks like a battery command and control section for 122 or 152 SPs. |
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Posted: 2/9/2022 1:56:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dracster]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JohnT83: Those are MT-LB. Multi-purpose vehicles that usually fill support roles where BMP is their infantry fighting vehicle. Some video of them in the field recently. https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/smqrff/column_of_russian_bmp2_and_mtlb_in_the_fields/ Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JohnT83: Originally Posted By 2tired2run: Looks like APC's being trucked into Kursk. Curious what they are and the paint job on the 1st one is interesting.
Those are MT-LB. Multi-purpose vehicles that usually fill support roles where BMP is their infantry fighting vehicle. Some video of them in the field recently. https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/smqrff/column_of_russian_bmp2_and_mtlb_in_the_fields/ MT-LBu. They have an extra road wheel and are a bit taller and are used as the chassis for a lot of their C4 vehicles. |
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Posted: 2/9/2022 2:03:15 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nickmemphis: I doubt it's very much better. I am not an SME, but my understanding is the Russian/Soviet/Russian army has always been an army of conscripts and officers. The concept of an NCO cadre is foreign to them. Sergeants are pulled out of their conscript class early after being identified as NCO material, and given special sergeant NCO training, but at the end of the term, they leave with the rest, so there is no institutional culture that carries over as we know it. Butter bars in the red army do what the US army would assign to sergeants and corporals. In simple terms, they do not have career NCOs. I've heard blips that they are trying to fix that, but they are starting from way behind. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nickmemphis: Originally Posted By Wreckshooter: Originally Posted By M-1975: The is how much the Russians suck (NSFW): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmozdOVU21M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p72KRQwYeMoAdvance up a hardball with open fields on either side without flank protection. Check! Advance across open ground and stop in the open. Check! But I think the Russians are better now. How much better? Who knows? I doubt it's very much better. I am not an SME, but my understanding is the Russian/Soviet/Russian army has always been an army of conscripts and officers. The concept of an NCO cadre is foreign to them. Sergeants are pulled out of their conscript class early after being identified as NCO material, and given special sergeant NCO training, but at the end of the term, they leave with the rest, so there is no institutional culture that carries over as we know it. Butter bars in the red army do what the US army would assign to sergeants and corporals. In simple terms, they do not have career NCOs. I've heard blips that they are trying to fix that, but they are starting from way behind. They have something they use called contract NCO's usually used for technical specialties and not part of their conscripts. Pretty good explanation in this 2017 paper. http://fieldgradeleader.themilitaryleader.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/The-Russian-Way-of-War-Grau-and-Bartles-Personnel-System.pdf |
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