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Posted: 3/19/2023 2:05:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Larpers? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Larpers? Exchange students from Africa, 10 years ago. 
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Posted: 3/19/2023 2:07:30 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: This is great to hear and a great idea doc540! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Easterner: Originally Posted By doc540: I'm seeing multiple vids of Ukraine soldiers loading mags by hand, one round at a time. Perhaps we should throw in and donate a bunch of Maglula AR and AK speed loaders? What do you think? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/183309/maglulaAR1-2751852.png https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/183309/maglulaAK1-2751853.jpg Send some over. We appreciate anything sent this way. Small items like than would be great for mailing to troops with our care packages. We have two great members here that already sent two packages our way. I'll post photos when they make it here.  This is great to hear and a great idea doc540! One package is custom made knives by a member here. It isn't something a person bought (nothing wrong with buying), but something someone did with their time and heart. It really means a lot that someone sent items so personal to get to the troops here. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 3/19/2023 2:08:29 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: I don't like it either, but that is the way the game is played in Weimar America. Looking at it another way, the Democrats gained control of both houses of Congress in 2006 based on their opposition to the wars, and Americans resoundingly rejected the John McCain approach to Foreign Policy in 2008. Additionally, the Democrats did not lose the Senate despite the Afghan debacle in 2022. John McCain and the "Never-Trumpers" also managed to destroy consensus on a lot of topics within the Republican Party between 2016 and 2020, including foreign policy. The Democrats big failure, and they are just now beginning to realize it, is that "Break Shit" as a policy has some significantly negative 2nd- and 3rd- order effects. A lot of folks who "played the game" and tried to do what they thought was best have lost all credibility, and no one conservative-leaning wants their kid to come home in a box or see inflation kill what's left of their lifestyle or believes a word they are told by the self-serving hacks, substandard mediocrities, or petulant emo adolescents who seem to be in charge of our government and major institutions. Calling everyone in Middle America a homophobic racist, starting an epidemic then overreacting, wrecking the economy, ruining large swaths of Urban America with "peaceful protests" and sending over 5000 kids (largely from said Middle America) to die in wars and then saying "nevermind" has consequences, and the chickens are coming home to roost. I think everyone who hasn't completely lost their soul or their marbles wants Ukraine to win, but no one trusts our "Deep State", military, or the Current Presidential figurehead to do the right thing, and it has gotten to the point that no one trusts our "bettors" to tell us the truth about anything, including Ukraine. The current maladministration policy of announcing multi-billions in aid then slow-rolling the delivery of any weapons that can significantly change the battlefield metrics also hasn't helped matters in the least. I too am frustrated, as I am old enough to know what right is supposed to look like, but we have to accept the world as it is before we can begin to fix it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: Originally Posted By nomansland: Originally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: You have to remember, there is profit in opposing war/militarism in American Politics. It has always been this way; the first President to get elected by promising to cut Defense spending and "keep us out of Foreign Conflicts" was Thomas Jefferson, who criticized John Adams for getting the US involved in the "Quasi-War" with France and promised to cut the US Navy down to a gunboat-equipped coast defense force. In both Trump and DeSantis's calculations, they will not have to make any binding policy decisions regarding Ukraine, they can say anything they want (within Reason) but not have to take any concrete actions for at least 21 months This is an eternity in both Warfare and Politics. To put this in perspective, 21 months is roughly half of the US Participation of the US in WWII, 3/5ths of the Korean War and the Mexican-American War, 4/5ths of the War of 1812, and longer than the US Participation in WWI, Desert Storm, The War of 1898, the Boxer Rebellion, etc. So, it is not only a good idea to blow "hot/cold" on the Ukraine War, it is almost an imperative. Remember as well that, between the parties, proportionally a lot more Republican-leaning parents got to send their sons and daughters to war in Iraq and Afghanistan than from the Prep schools in the tony suburbs and the DC areas. Also, among Republicans there is an element of Payback and Opportunity; Payback to the Democrats dating back to the time of Nixon for all the times that Republicans were painted as warmongers and killers for executing wars that were often declared on a bipartisan basis. Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, etc, made serious hay blaming George Bush for both 9/11 and the resulting wars (giving the Clintons, the Deep State/Intelligence Agencies, the INS, and and virtually everyone else a pass) The Republican's goal is to do to the Democrats what was done to the Republicans in the 2005-08 period, while promising Joel and Molly Burger in Zanesville, Ohio that they will "solve" this Ukraine thing so their son in the Marines won't get sent to fight in Ukraine and won't end up like their older son who had some problems settling back to something approaching a "normal" life after his tours in Kandahar and Al Anbar. Further, look at all the stuff that the Democrats extorted from the Bush II administration during the later stages once the war became unpopular. In their world, the war will either be nearly over (one way or the other) or hopelessly stalemated by the time they have to make any binding decisions, and knowing the Biden maladministration will clearly screw this up in some way, they would literally be trusting Joe Biden to do the right thing in Ukraine, and not taking all the credit. So, it would be political malpractice for anyone who will potentially face Joe Biden in the 2024 election to support the "Slow Joe Slow Roll" policy, where we send billions to keep the war going but not the right assets to win it effectively. That is a very likely possibility of DeSantis's motives (and possibly Trump's). Effectively you are saying that they are able to take this position without having to own the consequences on a topic that will likey change significantly by the time either would have to deal with it (along with public perceptions). Unfortunately the consequence of the leaders of the party staking out this position at this time is it makes the passage or support in the house of further aid much more difficult (indeed the congressmen will appear to be going against the potential future leadership). This has real consequences in the current and near future that could dramatically impact the outcome of this war. The amount of money we are spending seems like a lot to most but Colin Kahl has described the real tradeoffs that are having to be made (Feb 24, 2023 War on the Rocks podcast, Feb 28, 2023 House Armed Services hearing). There are those in congress that are pressuring to do "more" such as F16 - which I think that is great as long as they also pass separate funds to pay for it, but it can't be at the expense of ammo/missiles and immediate critical needs for Ukraine (estimates I've seen is current authorization will likely be burned down by summer with just these most critical needs). I honestly think money for F16's would be better spent ramping faster the industrial base (similar to operation warp speed where contractual guarantees were in place to derisk investments by industry) - I think this could have more of a deterrent impact on both Russia and China. It is disappointing to see how slowly Europe is reacting as well - i.e. France arguing over whether EU funds can be used to purchase shells made outside of EU, etc. I agree there should be incentivization of the EU manufacturing base but not at the expense of speed to get munitions to Ukraine. I do think we've had too much discussion of politics and side topics in this otherwise very informative thread. That said, I think a clinical discussion of the potential motivation and consequences of politician's stances (possibly 2nd or 3rd order impacts) on this topic does have a (limited) place. I don't like it either, but that is the way the game is played in Weimar America. Looking at it another way, the Democrats gained control of both houses of Congress in 2006 based on their opposition to the wars, and Americans resoundingly rejected the John McCain approach to Foreign Policy in 2008. Additionally, the Democrats did not lose the Senate despite the Afghan debacle in 2022. John McCain and the "Never-Trumpers" also managed to destroy consensus on a lot of topics within the Republican Party between 2016 and 2020, including foreign policy. The Democrats big failure, and they are just now beginning to realize it, is that "Break Shit" as a policy has some significantly negative 2nd- and 3rd- order effects. A lot of folks who "played the game" and tried to do what they thought was best have lost all credibility, and no one conservative-leaning wants their kid to come home in a box or see inflation kill what's left of their lifestyle or believes a word they are told by the self-serving hacks, substandard mediocrities, or petulant emo adolescents who seem to be in charge of our government and major institutions. Calling everyone in Middle America a homophobic racist, starting an epidemic then overreacting, wrecking the economy, ruining large swaths of Urban America with "peaceful protests" and sending over 5000 kids (largely from said Middle America) to die in wars and then saying "nevermind" has consequences, and the chickens are coming home to roost. I think everyone who hasn't completely lost their soul or their marbles wants Ukraine to win, but no one trusts our "Deep State", military, or the Current Presidential figurehead to do the right thing, and it has gotten to the point that no one trusts our "bettors" to tell us the truth about anything, including Ukraine. The current maladministration policy of announcing multi-billions in aid then slow-rolling the delivery of any weapons that can significantly change the battlefield metrics also hasn't helped matters in the least. I too am frustrated, as I am old enough to know what right is supposed to look like, but we have to accept the world as it is before we can begin to fix it. Spot on. |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 2:08:40 PM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 3/19/2023 2:29:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrmHZhYWAAEvtS8?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrmHktJX0AUjV4B?format=jpg&name=900x900
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrmHupOXoAMQlsi?format=jpg&name=900x900
Sounds like the reports of the IR beacons/markers in and around Kyiv back at the start of the 3 day SMO. |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 2:33:17 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrmHZhYWAAEvtS8?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrmHktJX0AUjV4B?format=jpg&name=900x900
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrmHupOXoAMQlsi?format=jpg&name=900x900
They need to relocate those with drones and help out the orcs. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/19/2023 2:37:09 PM EDT
[#7]
Bayraktar says bad touch and stays flying! |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 3/19/2023 2:37:15 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Well since they said "really serious" is that supposed to helps us believe that more? Hahahaha. If they were really serious they would be packing up all there shit inside Ukraine. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By HIPPO:
Well since they said "really serious" is that supposed to helps us believe that more? Hahahaha. If they were really serious they would be packing up all there shit inside Ukraine.  |
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USA
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Posted: 3/19/2023 2:39:02 PM EDT
[#9]
laughs nervously…ha ha |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 2:42:25 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrmHZhYWAAEvtS8?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrmHktJX0AUjV4B?format=jpg&name=900x900
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrmHupOXoAMQlsi?format=jpg&name=900x900
They should have dropped on the Russian held area with a drone |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 3/19/2023 2:44:35 PM EDT
[#11]
With the Spring Offensive to bring Western Tanks and IFV's it makes me wonder how many ATGM's Russia has left? I have never seen any numbers on how many Konkur's and Fagot's have been produced or how many may have been used so far.
Also, I have been wondering to myself lately that Russia may try to push a Big Peace plan right before the Spring Offensive happens! With their Winter Offensive not amounting to anything of note and their ammo shortages which we are hearing about. I'm believing there might be a big push to throw something across the table that Washington, London, and Berlin will buy into. And unfortunately, probably a plan which allows Moscow to save face, end the war and make everyone happy except Kiev! Basically, I just don't trust Biden, Scholz, and company to be able to push Russia back to their borders! I fear we will see more political maneuvering than Leopard and Bradley Maneuvering in the next few month's. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/19/2023 2:45:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HIPPO]
[#12]
Um, yeah, they just said the quiet part out loud. And I like it.
ETA - tweet with video:
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Posted: 3/19/2023 2:49:01 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrmHZhYWAAEvtS8?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrmHktJX0AUjV4B?format=jpg&name=900x900
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrmHupOXoAMQlsi?format=jpg&name=900x900
It's all fun and games for the Orcs until some poor Turkish fisherman who is taking on water in the Black Sea eats a Kalibur!  I'm guessing this is one of those ruses that only works until discovered, as this is so easy to spoof that it could potentially cause more damage to the Orcs than the Ukes, as you could saturate the battlespace with these using a bunch of bio- or chemical-grade garbage bags, kite string, and a few tanks of hydrogen or helium. Considering the prevailing winds are West-East in those parts, they could potentially land in all sorts of interesting places for the Russians!
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Posted: 3/19/2023 2:50:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ITCHY-FINGER]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MFP_4073: hey Itchy-- in the link address -- if you replace the 'twitter.com' with 'nitter.net' (leave all the link gobbly gook behind that) you will be able to view the content https://nitter.net/noclador/status/1637441083633180674 doesn't work with all twitter links -- but a lot of them Thank you. I'll give it a try. It worked but only with that link you provided that I cut n pasted. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 3/19/2023 2:55:07 PM EDT
[#15]
I would love to see one of those industrious Ukrainians put together a quad memorial souvenir. A plaque with a Postcard of defiant Snake island Soldier, under that a line of three keychains. One each from a T-72 or newer, a Sukhoi (any model), and Helo (again, any model KA-52, Mi 17, 24, or 28)
I bet they would sell a shit ton of them at $87 |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 3:00:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By coralreefer: With the Spring Offensive to bring Western Tanks and IFV's it makes me wonder how many ATGM's Russia has left? I have never seen any numbers on how many Konkur's and Fagot's have been produced or how many may have been used so far. Also, I have been wondering to myself lately that Russia may try to push a Big Peace plan right before the Spring Offensive happens! With their Winter Offensive not amounting to anything of note and their ammo shortages which we are hearing about. I'm believing there might be a big push to throw something across the table that Washington, London, and Berlin will buy into. And unfortunately, probably a plan which allows Moscow to save face, end the war and make everyone happy except Kiev! Basically, I just don't trust Biden, Scholz, and company to be able to push Russia back to their borders! I fear we will see more political maneuvering than Leopard and Bradley Maneuvering in the next few month's. What the Russians want to buy with negotiations is a clear Russian victory. The orcs will settle for time to reconstitute their fighting power and capabilities. The Ukrainians can afford neither, as Time will allow the Ruskies to call up more mobiks, move ammo forward, reposition key systems, and regenerate vehicles and log, and anything identifiable as a Orc victory will neuter Ukraine as an independent nation and turn it into a vassal state of either Poland or Russia. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 3/19/2023 3:01:54 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO: Um, yeah, they just said the quiet part out loud. And I like it.
ETA - tweet with video:
Whoa |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 3:02:30 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO: Um, yeah, they just said the quiet part out loud. And I like it.
ETA - tweet with video:
 holy shit. That takes things up a few notches. |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 3:07:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lieh-tzu]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: For some reason these are always age restricted. At least I can still watch people blowing up... Reminder: replace "twitter.com" with "nitter.net" to get around those age restrictions. Might need to reload a few times to get it to work. And when the same happens on Reddit, replace "www" with "old" |
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USA
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Posted: 3/19/2023 3:07:51 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easterner: Musical intermission  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9EJWtj5ZjI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCwJLT8yDP0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYaE_PVh-g4One of my favorites  DJ Zavala feat. DMNTED - F@ck You Putin [Welcome To Ukraine] by STRIPPED MODE CHANNEL |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 3:09:45 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By toaster: lol I have 3 cats. Bring the house down. Lol. Me too. Was that vid a metaphor for the Russian army? |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 3:11:13 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO: Um, yeah, they just said the quiet part out loud. And I like it.
ETA - tweet with video:
Somewhere, the ghost of Friedrich der Große smiles a knowing smile..... |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 3:14:28 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: I don't like it either, but that is the way the game is played in Weimar America. Looking at it another way, the Democrats gained control of both houses of Congress in 2006 based on their opposition to the wars, and Americans resoundingly rejected the John McCain approach to Foreign Policy in 2008. Additionally, the Democrats did not lose the Senate despite the Afghan debacle in 2022. John McCain and the "Never-Trumpers" also managed to destroy consensus on a lot of topics within the Republican Party between 2016 and 2020, including foreign policy. The Democrats big failure, and they are just now beginning to realize it, is that "Break Shit" as a policy has some significantly negative 2nd- and 3rd- order effects. A lot of folks who "played the game" and tried to do what they thought was best have lost all credibility, and no one conservative-leaning wants their kid to come home in a box or see inflation kill what's left of their lifestyle or believes a word they are told by the self-serving hacks, substandard mediocrities, or petulant emo adolescents who seem to be in charge of our government and major institutions. Calling everyone in Middle America a homophobic racist, starting an epidemic then overreacting, wrecking the economy, ruining large swaths of Urban America with "peaceful protests" and sending over 5000 kids (largely from said Middle America) to die in wars and then saying "nevermind" has consequences, and the chickens are coming home to roost. I think everyone who hasn't completely lost their soul or their marbles wants Ukraine to win, but no one trusts our "Deep State", military, or the Current Presidential figurehead to do the right thing, and it has gotten to the point that no one trusts our "betters" to tell us the truth about anything, including Ukraine. The current maladministration policy of announcing multi-billions in aid then slow-rolling the delivery of any weapons that can significantly change the battlefield metrics also hasn't helped matters in the least. I too am frustrated, as I am old enough to know what right is supposed to look like, but we have to accept the world as it is before we can begin to fix it. Hot damn, another home run by SH! |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 3:21:10 PM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 3/19/2023 3:22:35 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: What the Russians want to buy with negotiations is a clear Russian victory. The orcs will settle for time to reconstitute their fighting power and capabilities. The Ukrainians can afford neither, as Time will allow the Ruskies to call up more mobiks, move ammo forward, reposition key systems, and regenerate vehicles and log, and anything identifiable as a Orc victory will neuter Ukraine as an independent nation and turn it into a vassal state of either Poland or Russia. Yup. It's like a rapist asking for a minute to put on a condom. Hopefully no one falls for it. |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 3:28:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO: Um, yeah, they just said the quiet part out loud. And I like it.
ETA - tweet with video:
I like it a lot. |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 3:33:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lieh-tzu]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO: Um, yeah, they just said the quiet part out loud. And I like it.
ETA - tweet with video:
I've suspected for a while that any attempt by Russia to attack western Ukraine through Belarus would meet Polish opposition. Maybe unmarked (since Russia likes "little green men"), or maybe openly. Russia would attempt to spin it as Poland seizing their historical lands, just like Russia is. But Poland would wreck whatever Russian forces that made that mistake. As another former Soviet vassal, I believe Poland will have Ukraine's back at some level. They've already done a lot in sending arms. |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 3:35:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Freiheit8472]
[#28]
Been a while since Starsky has been posted and this is right up our ally with all of the deep dives:
This is how your country can be defeated (if Ukraine is defeated)  This is how your country can be defeated |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 3:35:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: The US sucked up a shit ton of Ukrainian sourced 74 mags. I had over a hundred at one point. Yup, and millions of rounds of 545 and 54r as well. A Ukranian fella in my town had millions in a warehouse and I got shitloads. |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 3:43:04 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: holy shit. That takes things up a few notches. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: Originally Posted By HIPPO: Um, yeah, they just said the quiet part out loud. And I like it.
ETA - tweet with video:
holy shit. That takes things up a few notches.
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Posted: 3/19/2023 3:49:16 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/114465/796282CC-0F3E-46ED-A71E-7195D6FF9154_jpe-2752009.JPG AWESOME lol hahahahaha  
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/19/2023 3:50:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: THOT_Vaccine]
[#32]
At this point, everyone bordering Russia has realized that if Ukraine falls they are soon to be fighting the same war.
It was never about Ukraine for Vlad. The motherfucker was ALL about re-establishing the "hard R" USSR. Every middle-aged adult in Poland remembers what that was like and seriously wants no part of it. |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 4:13:27 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: I don't like it either, but that is the way the game is played in Weimar America. Looking at it another way, the Democrats gained control of both houses of Congress in 2006 based on their opposition to the wars, and Americans resoundingly rejected the John McCain approach to Foreign Policy in 2008. Additionally, the Democrats did not lose the Senate despite the Afghan debacle in 2022. John McCain and the "Never-Trumpers" also managed to destroy consensus on a lot of topics within the Republican Party between 2016 and 2020, including foreign policy. The Democrats big failure, and they are just now beginning to realize it, is that "Break Shit" as a policy has some significantly negative 2nd- and 3rd- order effects. A lot of folks who "played the game" and tried to do what they thought was best have lost all credibility, and no one conservative-leaning wants their kid to come home in a box or see inflation kill what's left of their lifestyle or believes a word they are told by the self-serving hacks, substandard mediocrities, or petulant emo adolescents who seem to be in charge of our government and major institutions. Calling everyone in Middle America a homophobic racist, starting an epidemic then overreacting, wrecking the economy, ruining large swaths of Urban America with "peaceful protests" and sending over 5000 kids (largely from said Middle America) to die in wars and then saying "nevermind" has consequences, and the chickens are coming home to roost. I think everyone who hasn't completely lost their soul or their marbles wants Ukraine to win, but no one trusts our "Deep State", military, or the Current Presidential figurehead to do the right thing, and it has gotten to the point that no one trusts our "betters" to tell us the truth about anything, including Ukraine. The current maladministration policy of announcing multi-billions in aid then slow-rolling the delivery of any weapons that can significantly change the battlefield metrics also hasn't helped matters in the least. I too am frustrated, as I am old enough to know what right is supposed to look like, but we have to accept the world as it is before we can begin to fix it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: Originally Posted By nomansland: Originally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: You have to remember, there is profit in opposing war/militarism in American Politics. It has always been this way; the first President to get elected by promising to cut Defense spending and "keep us out of Foreign Conflicts" was Thomas Jefferson, who criticized John Adams for getting the US involved in the "Quasi-War" with France and promised to cut the US Navy down to a gunboat-equipped coast defense force. In both Trump and DeSantis's calculations, they will not have to make any binding policy decisions regarding Ukraine, they can say anything they want (within Reason) but not have to take any concrete actions for at least 21 months This is an eternity in both Warfare and Politics. To put this in perspective, 21 months is roughly half of the US Participation of the US in WWII, 3/5ths of the Korean War and the Mexican-American War, 4/5ths of the War of 1812, and longer than the US Participation in WWI, Desert Storm, The War of 1898, the Boxer Rebellion, etc. So, it is not only a good idea to blow "hot/cold" on the Ukraine War, it is almost an imperative. Remember as well that, between the parties, proportionally a lot more Republican-leaning parents got to send their sons and daughters to war in Iraq and Afghanistan than from the Prep schools in the tony suburbs and the DC areas. Also, among Republicans there is an element of Payback and Opportunity; Payback to the Democrats dating back to the time of Nixon for all the times that Republicans were painted as warmongers and killers for executing wars that were often declared on a bipartisan basis. Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, etc, made serious hay blaming George Bush for both 9/11 and the resulting wars (giving the Clintons, the Deep State/Intelligence Agencies, the INS, and and virtually everyone else a pass) The Republican's goal is to do to the Democrats what was done to the Republicans in the 2005-08 period, while promising Joel and Molly Burger in Zanesville, Ohio that they will "solve" this Ukraine thing so their son in the Marines won't get sent to fight in Ukraine and won't end up like their older son who had some problems settling back to something approaching a "normal" life after his tours in Kandahar and Al Anbar. Further, look at all the stuff that the Democrats extorted from the Bush II administration during the later stages once the war became unpopular. In their world, the war will either be nearly over (one way or the other) or hopelessly stalemated by the time they have to make any binding decisions, and knowing the Biden maladministration will clearly screw this up in some way, they would literally be trusting Joe Biden to do the right thing in Ukraine, and not taking all the credit. So, it would be political malpractice for anyone who will potentially face Joe Biden in the 2024 election to support the "Slow Joe Slow Roll" policy, where we send billions to keep the war going but not the right assets to win it effectively. That is a very likely possibility of DeSantis's motives (and possibly Trump's). Effectively you are saying that they are able to take this position without having to own the consequences on a topic that will likey change significantly by the time either would have to deal with it (along with public perceptions). Unfortunately the consequence of the leaders of the party staking out this position at this time is it makes the passage or support in the house of further aid much more difficult (indeed the congressmen will appear to be going against the potential future leadership). This has real consequences in the current and near future that could dramatically impact the outcome of this war. The amount of money we are spending seems like a lot to most but Colin Kahl has described the real tradeoffs that are having to be made (Feb 24, 2023 War on the Rocks podcast, Feb 28, 2023 House Armed Services hearing). There are those in congress that are pressuring to do "more" such as F16 - which I think that is great as long as they also pass separate funds to pay for it, but it can't be at the expense of ammo/missiles and immediate critical needs for Ukraine (estimates I've seen is current authorization will likely be burned down by summer with just these most critical needs). I honestly think money for F16's would be better spent ramping faster the industrial base (similar to operation warp speed where contractual guarantees were in place to derisk investments by industry) - I think this could have more of a deterrent impact on both Russia and China. It is disappointing to see how slowly Europe is reacting as well - i.e. France arguing over whether EU funds can be used to purchase shells made outside of EU, etc. I agree there should be incentivization of the EU manufacturing base but not at the expense of speed to get munitions to Ukraine. I do think we've had too much discussion of politics and side topics in this otherwise very informative thread. That said, I think a clinical discussion of the potential motivation and consequences of politician's stances (possibly 2nd or 3rd order impacts) on this topic does have a (limited) place. I don't like it either, but that is the way the game is played in Weimar America. Looking at it another way, the Democrats gained control of both houses of Congress in 2006 based on their opposition to the wars, and Americans resoundingly rejected the John McCain approach to Foreign Policy in 2008. Additionally, the Democrats did not lose the Senate despite the Afghan debacle in 2022. John McCain and the "Never-Trumpers" also managed to destroy consensus on a lot of topics within the Republican Party between 2016 and 2020, including foreign policy. The Democrats big failure, and they are just now beginning to realize it, is that "Break Shit" as a policy has some significantly negative 2nd- and 3rd- order effects. A lot of folks who "played the game" and tried to do what they thought was best have lost all credibility, and no one conservative-leaning wants their kid to come home in a box or see inflation kill what's left of their lifestyle or believes a word they are told by the self-serving hacks, substandard mediocrities, or petulant emo adolescents who seem to be in charge of our government and major institutions. Calling everyone in Middle America a homophobic racist, starting an epidemic then overreacting, wrecking the economy, ruining large swaths of Urban America with "peaceful protests" and sending over 5000 kids (largely from said Middle America) to die in wars and then saying "nevermind" has consequences, and the chickens are coming home to roost. I think everyone who hasn't completely lost their soul or their marbles wants Ukraine to win, but no one trusts our "Deep State", military, or the Current Presidential figurehead to do the right thing, and it has gotten to the point that no one trusts our "betters" to tell us the truth about anything, including Ukraine. The current maladministration policy of announcing multi-billions in aid then slow-rolling the delivery of any weapons that can significantly change the battlefield metrics also hasn't helped matters in the least. I too am frustrated, as I am old enough to know what right is supposed to look like, but we have to accept the world as it is before we can begin to fix it. Totally agree. We need a LEADER with vision and the spine to lead the party to do the right thing domestically and in foreign affairs rather than pander to blowing winds of opinion or knee-jerk “opposite of what he said!” |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 4:17:50 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrmHZhYWAAEvtS8?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrmHktJX0AUjV4B?format=jpg&name=900x900
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrmHupOXoAMQlsi?format=jpg&name=900x900
It would be terrible if that were delivered by UA drone to a nearby Russian trench or staging area. |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 4:25:32 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO: Um, yeah, they just said the quiet part out loud. And I like it.
ETA - tweet with video:
Now we know where are the big stones of Europe! Poland is hyper aware of the stakes. This puts the screws to NATO support. Either support Ukraine properly so they can defend effectively, or this NATO country will act unilaterally to fight Russia’s forces directly. Yeah those are big stones you hear clunking, what’s your move? |
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USA
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Posted: 3/19/2023 4:29:29 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: I cant say Im super surprised, at all, and my comments on "IFVs used as tanks" is back 1000 pages or so. Dont send an IFV to do a tanks job. Cant assume that there are no ATGMs without a lot of drone coordinatioon. That being said, just to point out, the title of that reddit page is four knocked out, only shows one. Just sayin... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: Originally Posted By anonimovaca: https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/11v8ovt/russian_take_out_4_ypr765_from_netherlands/ Russia destroys four YPR-765. Looks to be the aftermath of the video that shows them moving forwards and backwards. Video is graphic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO4_RKb97TkPossibly part of the same set of vehicles. One vehicle looks to be stopped already, one is hit while moving and soldiers dismount. Edit to add: Previous video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVUVCApf5GoI cant say Im super surprised, at all, and my comments on "IFVs used as tanks" is back 1000 pages or so. Dont send an IFV to do a tanks job. Cant assume that there are no ATGMs without a lot of drone coordinatioon. That being said, just to point out, the title of that reddit page is four knocked out, only shows one. Just sayin... At the start of the video on Reddit there are what looks to be three vehicles off in the distance, can’t tell what they are, they could be Russian for all we know, but that’s probably where the number four is coming from. |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 4:38:36 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO: Um, yeah, they just said the quiet part out loud. And I like it.
ETA - tweet with video:
 Attached File |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 4:40:58 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO: laughs nervously…ha ha I'm no doc but the guy doesn't look/sound healthy. |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 4:42:15 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: Somewhere, the ghost of Friedrich der Große smiles a knowing smile..... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: Originally Posted By HIPPO: Um, yeah, they just said the quiet part out loud. And I like it.
ETA - tweet with video:
Somewhere, the ghost of Friedrich der Große smiles a knowing smile..... Maybe more like Jan Sobieski. If flights of F35 Winged Hussars storm down leading divisions of armor behind a cruise missile barrage I would not be disappointed. I think Poland knows all about a fight to the death and the courage to crush a mortal enemy. Russia may inflict a lot of damage but Poland will take a vital chunk out of its muscle and bone. Russia is going to die as a world power in the next couple of years. Only question is when and by whom and what happens in the aftermath. |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 5:02:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO: Um, yeah, they just said the quiet part out loud. And I like it.
ETA - tweet with video:
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Posted: 3/19/2023 5:03:10 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By THOT_Vaccine: At this point, everyone bordering Russia has realized that if Ukraine falls they are soon to be fighting the same war. It was never about Ukraine for Vlad. The motherfucker was ALL about re-establishing the "hard R" USSR. Every middle-aged adult in Poland remembers what that was like and seriously wants no part of it. Spot on. Weirdly the former East Germans at best don’t remember any of that, or at worst long for the good old days under Stalin. |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 5:09:03 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OBird: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/62477/C74354AC-851E-4E06-A88A-B3E3549890C8_jpe-2752096.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OBird: Originally Posted By HIPPO: Um, yeah, they just said the quiet part out loud. And I like it.
ETA - tweet with video:
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/62477/C74354AC-851E-4E06-A88A-B3E3549890C8_jpe-2752096.JPG That will be comforting to Lukashenko.. |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 5:10:52 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: GD has a hard on for Poland interesting to see the mental gymnastics here lol Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By HIPPO: Um, yeah, they just said the quiet part out loud. And I like it.
ETA - tweet with video:
Yeah it ought to be epic when a strong conservative, Catholic NATO country with post-USSR bonafides takes the field against Russia how half of GD will go into convulsions. Was just talking to a conservative, traditional Catholic friend and was shocked when they started in with Putin is the best defender of Christians today! I could feel the tremors from Ronald Reagan spinning in his grave. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/19/2023 5:13:40 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Spot on. Weirdly the former East Germans at best don’t remember any of that, or at worst long for the good old days under Stalin. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Originally Posted By THOT_Vaccine: At this point, everyone bordering Russia has realized that if Ukraine falls they are soon to be fighting the same war. It was never about Ukraine for Vlad. The motherfucker was ALL about re-establishing the "hard R" USSR. Every middle-aged adult in Poland remembers what that was like and seriously wants no part of it. Spot on. Weirdly the former East Germans at best don’t remember any of that, or at worst long for the good old days under Stalin. The Easties had it sort of "easy" during the cold war. Nobody starved. After the initial purge, very few got the firing squad or the gulag. The stazi were even more fanatical and murderous than the KGB. So, their worst baddie was themselves. Funny how they never quite managed to connect the midnight stazi rides to fucking Russia... A bunch of them wouldn't mind getting back to just drinking themselves to death. |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 5:41:17 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Random intellectual exercise: If you want to understand what it is like to be a Tank or Bradley Commander, get in a car with 3 (or 2) of your favorite pals. But before you do, tape up all of the windows except for a small ~3x8" slit for the driver (3ea), gunner (1ea), and loader (1ea). Absolutely no back glass of course. The driver sits at the wheel, the gunner in the right passenger seat, the commander in the right rear, and the loader at the left rear (no loader for the Bradley). The commander could use the sunroof to simulate a cupola, I guess. This assumes that they could even use their other "vision blocks" because there isn't a huge pile of shit in the bustle rack.  Now "drive the car" by only by giving commands from the back seat. Then try it in reverse (you want to keep the frontal armor facing the threat if you need to get out of there for some reason).  DRIVER LEFT...DRIVER LEFT...NO, FUCK. DUDE "ASS LEFT", "ASS LEFT"!! And don't forget, this can't capture the fun of having a turret, where you can be facing a completely different direction from the driver. Hope you don't get car sick easily! Anyway, entirely unlike the Russians in this video, and this may come as a surprise to some, but if you are taking fire, you don't want to run away completely broadside to an enemy trench line. This is why they caught 2 RPGs in the flank. I wonder if they will live long enough to take this lesson to heart? 
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USA
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Posted: 3/19/2023 5:41:46 PM EDT
[#46]
Interesting article, in spoiler tag below, on some of the major themes, history, and propaganda concepts behind Russia’s war against Ukraine and Putin’s thirst for conquest. Imposing the Past: Putin’s War for History Click To View Spoiler |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 5:46:56 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By weptek911: Watching 1420’s Man on the Street interviews doesn’t give me any hope that a post-Putin Russia will be any less murderous thieving rapist than it is now. You're exactly right. Perun and Kamil Geleev (sp?) have commented on exactly that. When a bunch of people with the means to flee the country does so, then Russia only gets more like its current form. The people left either agree with what is happening or are too ignorant or lacking in options to do anything about it. And after Putin (whenever that is), who is going to be able to keep control in that environment? A great big teddy bear, or some asshole who could survive Putin and all his cronies for years, to suddenly come out of "nowhere" and claw to the top of that dogpile? This person might not emerge for years, but it's going to be ugly. |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 5:47:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#48]
Neat video of kill. It starts shedding its blades for possible ejection of the crew.
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Posted: 3/19/2023 5:51:31 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doc540: I'm seeing multiple vids of Ukraine soldiers loading mags by hand, one round at a time. Perhaps we should throw in and donate a bunch of Maglula AR and AK speed loaders? What do you think? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/183309/maglulaAR1-2751852.png https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/183309/maglulaAK1-2751853.jpg I'll chip in $20. And might I add, although I am sure the IP owners would not be thrilled about it, it might also be useful for someone to make a CAD/Fusion 360 file so that the Ukrainians can print their own (they are on a tighter budget as @GentlemanFarmer has pointed out). Also, for GF, are mags exportable? In other words, could we order a case and send them to you, to be dumped into luggage or boxes and shipped over in bulk? Just thinking out loud. |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 5:53:11 PM EDT
[#50]
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