Originally Posted By Capta:

Reading that article I posted makes it pretty damn clear that games are being played not only with the knowhow but with the financial structuring.  Putin moved his offer from 80% financing to 100% financing, and Hungary doesn’t even start paying on the loan until the reactors go online.  Moscow basically handed a Hungary a shit ton of free money, a jobs program, and two reactors.  That’s a good starting point for understanding Orban’s decision making.
There has to be heavy Kompromat on him too.  After all, looking at Russia spiraling into deeper and deeper shit, an unethical but rational actor would simply say, thanks for the billions and the reactors, now go pound sand and by the way what are you going to do about it?  We’re in NATO, bitch!  Erdogan would do this so fast it would make your freaking head spin.
There is no rational reason for Orban to screw Hungary out of significant financial and political opportunities like he is.  Europe is going to remember this, to say nothing of Ukraine.  Putin has him by the balls, somehow.

Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

I agree. I think Orban has personal animosity towards Zelensky and maybe Ukraine in general on top of all the legitimate concerns Hungary has with the EU. Maybe he also assumed that a quick Russian victory would be followed by very favorable terms for the Hungarian minorities in Ukraine. As an ethnic Hungarian who supports Orban in domestic policies, I am very frustrated by his stupid games over Ukraine.

Originally Posted By sq40:
JFC.  GD is going apeshit.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Who-knows-breaking-Secret-documents-reveal-US-has-boots-on-the-ground-in-Ukraine/5-2637176/

They think the US has troops on the front.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/562719/IMG_5638_jpeg-2778941.JPG

Yet, if you read  we had 14 people there in county.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/49447/BC63C2B6-B539-4A08-B138-098A5DDC9306_jpe-2779330.JPG

Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:


They are quietly making surprises.
https://www.thedrive.com/uploads/2022/11/16/Chien-Hsiang-loitering-munition.jpg?auto=webp&crop=16%3A9&auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=1920

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/taiwan-shows-off-its-radar-killing-kamikaze-drones

Originally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly:


This goes back to one of the foundational principles of the EU, which is to increase both efficiency and interdependence to create a "United States of Europe".  The EU bureaucrats decided that  the "best course" for Hungary was to focus on agricultural production over industry or anything else.  The Hungarians have been (rightly in my opinion) pushing back on this for at least 20 years.  I know it has been a source of friction between the EU and NATO, since it has retarded Hungary's ability to significantly upgrade it's military over the years, and has led to the functional abandonment of several bases that were considered important in NATO planning, Tazsar being the most prominent of these. This goes back to a core conflict between NATO and the EU, where the US and NATO want to boost the economies in the east to improve their overall military capabilities (which means a certain level of industrialization) while the EU tends to favor established producers (largely in the "core" EU) at the expense of eastern members, who have the greatest need and motivation to improve their military capabilities. This is further complicated by the fact that the "Core EU" countries have largely failed/refused to maintain and finance sufficient forces to address the the NATO threats to the East and South (not just Russia) and the NATO countries in the East cannot afford to build or have the capability to maintain these forces, with Poland being the exception.  In foreign relations, Hungary is in an odd position in that it is linguistically separate from all it's neighbors, and has traditionally associated the most with Austria, which is not even a member of NATO.  Additionally, I'm sure Hungarians would be quick to point out that prior to the invasion, Germany and France's foreign policies were at least equally pro-Russian, and the EU going the extra mile to piss off the Hungarians for not accepting the brilliance of EU social, economic and industrial central planning for the last couple of decades has not helped matters, and Hungary does not have the economic "cushion" of Western Europe to play stupid games with things like the German Energiewende, sudden 180-degree shifts in policy, or giving up weapons and equipment it needs and cannot produce internally or afford to replace.  Orban is probably a Putin puppet, but this does not change the fact that current Hungarian policy choices are the outcome of at least 20 years of some seriously flawed EU policies

Originally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly:


This goes back to one of the foundational principles of the EU, which is to increase both efficiency and interdependence to create a "United States of Europe".  The EU bureaucrats decided that  the "best course" for Hungary was to focus on agricultural production over industry or anything else.  The Hungarians have been (rightly in my opinion) pushing back on this for at least 20 years.  I know it has been a source of friction between the EU and NATO, since it has retarded Hungary's ability to significantly upgrade it's military over the years, and has led to the functional abandonment of several bases that were considered important in NATO planning, Tazsar being the most prominent of these. This goes back to a core conflict between NATO and the EU, where the US and NATO want to boost the economies in the east to improve their overall military capabilities (which means a certain level of industrialization) while the EU tends to favor established producers (largely in the "core" EU) at the expense of eastern members, who have the greatest need and motivation to improve their military capabilities. This is further complicated by the fact that the "Core EU" countries have largely failed/refused to maintain and finance sufficient forces to address the the NATO threats to the East and South (not just Russia) and the NATO countries in the East cannot afford to build or have the capability to maintain these forces, with Poland being the exception.  In foreign relations, Hungary is in an odd position in that it is linguistically separate from all it's neighbors, and has traditionally associated the most with Austria, which is not even a member of NATO.  Additionally, I'm sure Hungarians would be quick to point out that prior to the invasion, Germany and France's foreign policies were at least equally pro-Russian, and the EU going the extra mile to piss off the Hungarians for not accepting the brilliance of EU social, economic and industrial central planning for the last couple of decades has not helped matters, and Hungary does not have the economic "cushion" of Western Europe to play stupid games with things like the German Energiewende, sudden 180-degree shifts in policy, or giving up weapons and equipment it needs and cannot produce internally or afford to replace.  Orban is probably a Putin puppet, but this does not change the fact that current Hungarian policy choices are the outcome of at least 20 years of some seriously flawed EU policies

Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:



Yeah, this is why I don't believe these leaks.  The info is all there from literally public sources and in this thread.  The fact one document claims there were 0 Russian S-300 systems knocked out is rubbish.  We have multiple videos and photos of S-300 systems and radar units destroyed on the Russian side.   Other numbers don't add up as well.

Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:

Looks more like Hungary has been trying to play both sides in the short term, with poor regard for the long term.   Nobody respects an “ally” like that.

You want to jump in Warsaw Pact v2.0, knock yourself out… just don’t suck up to Putin then make overtures about how you “remember the past”, and how you’re an opponent to them later.

Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck:

Abrams, Brads, M113s, and HMMWVs storming across the plains of Europe to smite Russians, just as God intended!

Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

I agree. I think Orban has personal animosity towards Zelensky and maybe Ukraine in general on top of all the legitimate concerns Hungary has with the EU. Maybe he also assumed that a quick Russian victory would be followed by very favorable terms for the Hungarian minorities in Ukraine. As an ethnic Hungarian who supports Orban in domestic policies, I am very frustrated by his stupid games over Ukraine.

Originally Posted By RockNwood:

Orban would have been wise to emulate the successes of Poland. Maybe piggyback off some of their moves.

If independence is a high priority for them and being a small country nukes are a bad path. It is a wonderful baseline generation capability but the technology and fuel are highly controlled by larger countries. Also, large Nuke plants like the Russian ones are not the answer. If they pursue nuclear power the French approach if more numerous and smaller plants is much better.

Located near the ME they could have multi-supplier options with natural gas. It is clean and the generation can be quickly ramped up or down to meet demand.

Originally Posted By RockNwood:

Orban would have been wise to emulate the successes of Poland. Maybe piggyback off some of their moves.

If independence is a high priority for them and being a small country nukes are a bad path. It is a wonderful baseline generation capability but the technology and fuel are highly controlled by larger countries. Also, large Nuke plants like the Russian ones are not the answer. If they pursue nuclear power the French approach if more numerous and smaller plants is much better.

Located near the ME they could have multi-supplier options with natural gas. It is clean and the generation can be quickly ramped up or down to meet demand.