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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:27:39 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MarineGrunt: https://twitter.com/LauraLoomer/status/1698518761194602634?s=20 You guys see the new one? Ukraine was responsible for Jan 6 now.  If the Qanon Shaman says a Uke Nazi spy did it, who can dispute that? I’ll confirm with my recently passed cat Miss Cleo. 
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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:29:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: thanosnap]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stgdz: Russia does all that stuff because of our tech. We pulled that plug and it will stay out for awhile. And that's a good thing. They're number 3 in world oil production. Number 3 in wheat. Number 2 in fertilizer. Even if it's our tech. Because regardless of how bad their government is, the more of this stuff is pumped into the world the better we (and the world) are off. We're trying to cripple them, not destroy them. Maybe, hopefully change them one day, but by being a great example to follow a beacon of light, not through destruction. |
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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:30:01 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Auto5guy: Propagandists are not mentally ill. They know exactly what they are doing. They know why they're doing it. Hell they're getting paid for it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Auto5guy: Originally Posted By Jaehaerys: Originally Posted By MarineGrunt: https://twitter.com/LauraLoomer/status/1698518761194602634?s=20 You guys see the new one? Ukraine was responsible for Jan 6 now. Over the past couple of years, I've come to the conclusion that mental illness is far more prevalent than I previously thought. It also hasn't exactly been reassuring to realize that it's by no means limited to one side of the political spectrum. Propagandists are not mentally ill. They know exactly what they are doing. They know why they're doing it. Hell they're getting paid for it. Can I work from home part-time on a gig like that? 💰💰💰💰 |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:31:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: And that's a good thing. They're number 3 in world oil production. Number 3 in wheat. Number 2 in fertilizer. Even if it's our tech. Because regardless of how bad their government is, the more of this stuff is pumped into the world the better we (and the world) are off. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: Originally Posted By stgdz: Russia does all that stuff because of our tech. We pulled that plug and it will stay out for awhile. And that's a good thing. They're number 3 in world oil production. Number 3 in wheat. Number 2 in fertilizer. Even if it's our tech. Because regardless of how bad their government is, the more of this stuff is pumped into the world the better we (and the world) are off. Not when that part of the world has a galaxy brain retard with a gun to the rest of the world. |
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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:32:14 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: Well, aside from the loose nukes possibility this is the main problem. Here's global oil output: https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/16274.jpeg Here's global wheat production. A lot of people eat bread or feed livestock with wheat: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Valentina-Mereu/publication/277007923/figure/fig1/AS:749503481118721@1555706963235/List-of-the-largest-wheat-producing-countries-FAOStat-2011.png Here's global fertilizer producers: https://www.fas.usda.gov/sites/default/files/styles/wysiwyg/public/media/images/2022-06/fertilizer-IATR-2.png?itok=ojlaD6o7 What then happens to the economy? Russia feeds and powers much of the world. We can produce for ourselves because we are a top producer, but our economy is so globalized... Even if nukes aren't lost, how many people die just because we don't like the Russian government? How many people have their quality of life reduced? Do you understand that private businesses can still produce goods if a government collapses, especially when the goods are extraction and agriculture? Nobody needs the Russian government, most especially Russians. The best thing in the world would be for Putin, all his cronies, the siloviki, and the entire FSB to be lynched or shot wherever they are found (or poisoned, drowned, or thrown from windows). The world needs a new Russia that is willing to trade peacefully with its neighbors, not genocide them. Stop defending authoritarianism by saying it's too disruptive or risky to eliminate it. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:33:31 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: The trend is spreading. 
https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1698773626135130112/3RtJbnHW?format=jpg&name=900x900 https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/russia-really-is-using-tires-to-protect-its-bombers-from-attack New drone game: Get the drones inside the jet inlet!
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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:33:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: Well, the collapse happened under the elder Bush, who was Raegan's VP, and much of the same administration. And at the time they were like "oh crap, what about the nukes! They need to stay together." That's undeniable. Sorry if that makes me look like an idiot but its the truth. And today Russia just isn't that important that we should destroy them and need to worry about loose nukes or people (not just in Russia but around the world) unable to feed themselves or put gas in their car or fertilizer on their crops. There might have been a time in the 70s when they were. And "tear down that wall" was about ending the occupation and reuniting East/West Germany. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: Originally Posted By Auto5guy: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/476-342.gif Reagan made all the intellectuals who said the Soviets couldn't be defeated and that he was going to start a nuclear war by trying, look really really stupid. The ivy league idiots have been trying to revise history ever since. Well, the collapse happened under the elder Bush, who was Raegan's VP, and much of the same administration. And at the time they were like "oh crap, what about the nukes! They need to stay together." That's undeniable. Sorry if that makes me look like an idiot but its the truth. And today Russia just isn't that important that we should destroy them and need to worry about loose nukes or people (not just in Russia but around the world) unable to feed themselves or put gas in their car or fertilizer on their crops. There might have been a time in the 70s when they were. And "tear down that wall" was about ending the occupation and reuniting East/West Germany. No, it's not the truth. At. All. Or, even close. We knew they were going to collapse because we were causing their collapse! *THAT* is undeniable. (As Reagan said, "we win, they lose"). We also knew what was going to happen to the nukes, which was nothing. And, no, "tear down this wall" was specifically referring to the iron curtain of the Soviet Union. It was given at the Brandenburg Gate between East and West Berlin as that was *the* symbol of the iron curtain surrounding the Soviet Union. Again, lack of historical knowledge leads one to spectacularly wrong conclusions about current events and what should be current policy. We need to cause the collapse of Russia, like we did to the USSR before it, so that they can never again threaten their neighbors or cause instability worldwide. |
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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:35:42 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5MdbEkWsAEVzSp?format=jpg&name=large
I don't see the point of the frigate camo and the ones like it. The whole point of most navy camo when it was done was to make it hard to visually determine course and speed. That just makes the ship kinda look smaller so just aim for the center? |
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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:36:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: Well, aside from the loose nukes possibility this is the main problem. Here's global oil output: https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/16274.jpeg Here's global wheat production. A lot of people eat bread or feed livestock with wheat: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Valentina-Mereu/publication/277007923/figure/fig1/AS:749503481118721@1555706963235/List-of-the-largest-wheat-producing-countries-FAOStat-2011.png Here's global fertilizer producers: https://www.fas.usda.gov/sites/default/files/styles/wysiwyg/public/media/images/2022-06/fertilizer-IATR-2.png?itok=ojlaD6o7 What then happens to the economy? Russia feeds and powers much of the world. We can produce for ourselves because we are a top producer, but our economy is so globalized... Even if nukes aren't lost, how many people die just because we don't like the Russian government? How many people have their quality of life reduced? We can up production of oil, it ain't a secret we have the reserves. If the dunce in charge would let fly with leases, we could shut them down cold. We can switch from ethanol for fuel to wheat with no issues at all and take up the slack on food. Farmers could make some better money with wheat anyway. Ethanol in the gas is bullshit, and unnecessary. Once their broke dick asses are desperate, we buy fertilizer at a discount rate from them. I imagine if the price goes up, we can find other sources besides russia. If it was worth it, we can mine it here. Just like lots of other stuff we don't bother with because it isn't worth it because of price. We have the means and ability. |
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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:37:39 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By elcope: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5Nn38eW8AAEikt?format=png&name=900x900 
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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:41:32 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Do you understand that private businesses can still produce goods if a government collapses, especially when the goods are extraction and agriculture? Not if the ruble is worthless. A currency these days is only backed by its government. Not if the oil well heads in the permafrost Siberia freeze over again. It would take at least decade to re-drill again. We would actually need to send them aid again to get this stuff going again. I suppose there will always be farming though, it would just be much tougher. |
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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:42:44 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: What's this we shit? You got a mouse in your pocket? "We" in the real world want russia crippled. I want them so crippled that they all shit in a hole in their back yard, like half of them do now. We were overly nice to them during the break up, invited them to join the west and share in prosperity. They managed to fuck that up like they are fucking up now. They are savage assholes, and once they are broke, and the military neutered, they can play hunger games, town vs town. Maybe we can broadcast it, and promise them some money if it is truly entertaining, and welch on the deal like they do every fucking time they make a deal with the west. No the time to teach them pain and humiliation is now. Let those motherfuckers eat each other to stay alive. 
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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:42:58 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: We can up production of oil, it ain't a secret we have the reserves. If the dunce in charge would let fly with leases, we could shut them down cold. We can switch from ethanol for fuel to wheat with no issues at all and take up the slack on food. Farmers could make some better money with wheat anyway. Ethanol in the gas is bullshit, and unnecessary. Once their broke dick asses are desperate, we buy fertilizer at a discount rate from them. I imagine if the price goes up, we can find other sources besides russia. If it was worth it, we can mine it here. Just like lots of other stuff we don't bother with because it isn't worth it because of price. We have the means and ability. Yeah we would be fine. I'm talking about the rest of the world. And the rest of the world does affect our economy. |
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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:43:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: Well, aside from the loose nukes possibility this is the main problem. Here's global oil output: https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/16274.jpeg Here's global wheat production. A lot of people eat bread or feed livestock with wheat: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Valentina-Mereu/publication/277007923/figure/fig1/AS:749503481118721@1555706963235/List-of-the-largest-wheat-producing-countries-FAOStat-2011.png Here's global fertilizer producers: https://www.fas.usda.gov/sites/default/files/styles/wysiwyg/public/media/images/2022-06/fertilizer-IATR-2.png?itok=ojlaD6o7 What then happens to the economy? Russia feeds and powers much of the world. We can produce for ourselves because we are a top producer, but our economy is so globalized... Even if nukes aren't lost, how many people die just because we don't like the Russian government? How many people have their quality of life reduced? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: Originally Posted By lorazepam: Fuck that. They need to be fucked so bad that the populace looks at N. korea with jealousy. ... This is the chance to finish them off, and let the outlying areas head to moscow for payback. Well, aside from the loose nukes possibility this is the main problem. Here's global oil output: https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/16274.jpeg Here's global wheat production. A lot of people eat bread or feed livestock with wheat: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Valentina-Mereu/publication/277007923/figure/fig1/AS:749503481118721@1555706963235/List-of-the-largest-wheat-producing-countries-FAOStat-2011.png Here's global fertilizer producers: https://www.fas.usda.gov/sites/default/files/styles/wysiwyg/public/media/images/2022-06/fertilizer-IATR-2.png?itok=ojlaD6o7 What then happens to the economy? Russia feeds and powers much of the world. We can produce for ourselves because we are a top producer, but our economy is so globalized... Even if nukes aren't lost, how many people die just because we don't like the Russian government? How many people have their quality of life reduced? No, Russia doesn't feed *or* power much of the world. In fact, they barely feed and power their own country. Production =/= export. Further, your charts are inaccurate. Here's the top wheat *exporters* for 2022: Australia: US$10.2 billion (15.4% of total wheat exports) United States: $8.52 billion (12.9%) Canada: $7.9 billion (12%) France: $7.4 billion (11.2%) Russia: $6.8 billion (10.3%) Argentina: $3.1 billion (4.7%) Ukraine: $2.7 billion (4%) Germany: $2.2 billion (3.3%) For oil it's a similar story: Saudi Arabia: US$224.8 billion (16.7% of exported crude oil) Canada: $120.5 billion (8.9%) Russia: $119.5 billion (8.9%) United States: $117 billion (8.7%) United Arab Emirates: $112.7 billion (8.4%) Iraq: $82.3 billion (6.1%) Norway: $57.8 billion (4.3%) Kuwait: $54.3 billion (4%) Russia is a bit player in the global economy. Causing their collapse will be a boon to the rest of the world. |
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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:45:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: And that's a good thing. They're number 3 in world oil production. Number 3 in wheat. Number 2 in fertilizer. Even if it's our tech. Because regardless of how bad their government is, the more of this stuff is pumped into the world the better we (and the world) are off. We're trying to cripple them, not destroy them. Maybe, hopefully change them one day, but by being a great example to follow a beacon of light, not through destruction. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: Originally Posted By stgdz: Russia does all that stuff because of our tech. We pulled that plug and it will stay out for awhile. And that's a good thing. They're number 3 in world oil production. Number 3 in wheat. Number 2 in fertilizer. Even if it's our tech. Because regardless of how bad their government is, the more of this stuff is pumped into the world the better we (and the world) are off. We're trying to cripple them, not destroy them. Maybe, hopefully change them one day, but by being a great example to follow a beacon of light, not through destruction. Nope, not at all. They are a bit player in the world economy and the world would be a better place without them. |
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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:46:34 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: No, Russia doesn't feed *or* power much of the world. In fact, they barely feed and power their own country. Production =/= export. Further, your charts are inaccurate. Here's the top wheat *exporters* for 2022: Australia: US$10.2 billion (15.4% of total wheat exports) United States: $8.52 billion (12.9%) Canada: $7.9 billion (12%) France: $7.4 billion (11.2%) Russia: $6.8 billion (10.3%) Argentina: $3.1 billion (4.7%) Ukraine: $2.7 billion (4%) Germany: $2.2 billion (3.3%) For oil it's a similar story: Saudi Arabia: US$224.8 billion (16.7% of exported crude oil) Canada: $120.5 billion (8.9%) Russia: $119.5 billion (8.9%) United States: $117 billion (8.7%) United Arab Emirates: $112.7 billion (8.4%) Iraq: $82.3 billion (6.1%) Norway: $57.8 billion (4.3%) Kuwait: $54.3 billion (4%) Russia is a bit player in the global economy. Causing their collapse will be a boon to the rest of the world. So when you look at exports they're #6 in wheat and #3 in oil. Your point is? |
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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:48:38 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: Not if the ruble is worthless. A currency these days is only backed by its government. Not if the oil well heads in the permafrost Siberia freeze over again. It would take at least decade to re-drill again. We would actually need to send them aid again to get this stuff going again. I suppose there will always be farming though, it would just be much tougher. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Do you understand that private businesses can still produce goods if a government collapses, especially when the goods are extraction and agriculture? Not if the ruble is worthless. A currency these days is only backed by its government. Not if the oil well heads in the permafrost Siberia freeze over again. It would take at least decade to re-drill again. We would actually need to send them aid again to get this stuff going again. I suppose there will always be farming though, it would just be much tougher. In case you hadn't noticed, the ruble is *already* worthless. Much like it became worthless when the former Soviet Union collapsed. We don't need or want to send them diddly squat. They chose to sow this path. We need to facilitate their collapse so they reap the whirlwind. |
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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:50:17 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: Yeah we would be fine. I'm talking about the rest of the world. And the rest of the world does affect our economy. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: Originally Posted By lorazepam: We can up production of oil, it ain't a secret we have the reserves. If the dunce in charge would let fly with leases, we could shut them down cold. We can switch from ethanol for fuel to wheat with no issues at all and take up the slack on food. Farmers could make some better money with wheat anyway. Ethanol in the gas is bullshit, and unnecessary. Once their broke dick asses are desperate, we buy fertilizer at a discount rate from them. I imagine if the price goes up, we can find other sources besides russia. If it was worth it, we can mine it here. Just like lots of other stuff we don't bother with because it isn't worth it because of price. We have the means and ability. Yeah we would be fine. I'm talking about the rest of the world. And the rest of the world does affect our economy. We would increase our exports because we would be increasing our production just like every other country would do. And, that would affect our economy in a *positive* way so, again, it's in our national interest to see Russia collapse. |
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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:50:27 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: Yeah we would be fine. I'm talking about the rest of the world. And the rest of the world does affect our economy. I am talking about feeding the world, and taking their oil business away from them. The world doesn't need their shit, and we have the ability to replace it. |
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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:51:38 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: So when you look at exports they're #6 in wheat and #3 in oil. Your point is? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: Originally Posted By planemaker: No, Russia doesn't feed *or* power much of the world. In fact, they barely feed and power their own country. Production =/= export. Further, your charts are inaccurate. Here's the top wheat *exporters* for 2022: Australia: US$10.2 billion (15.4% of total wheat exports) United States: $8.52 billion (12.9%) Canada: $7.9 billion (12%) France: $7.4 billion (11.2%) Russia: $6.8 billion (10.3%) Argentina: $3.1 billion (4.7%) Ukraine: $2.7 billion (4%) Germany: $2.2 billion (3.3%) For oil it's a similar story: Saudi Arabia: US$224.8 billion (16.7% of exported crude oil) Canada: $120.5 billion (8.9%) Russia: $119.5 billion (8.9%) United States: $117 billion (8.7%) United Arab Emirates: $112.7 billion (8.4%) Iraq: $82.3 billion (6.1%) Norway: $57.8 billion (4.3%) Kuwait: $54.3 billion (4%) Russia is a bit player in the global economy. Causing their collapse will be a boon to the rest of the world. So when you look at exports they're #6 in wheat and #3 in oil. Your point is? My point is they are a bit player that can easily be replaced if their exports went entirely to *ZERO*. You seem to think that Russia is some major player in the world economy. They are not. |
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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:52:50 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: My point is they are a bit player that can easily be replaced if their exports went entirely to *ZERO*. You seem to think that Russia is some major player in the world economy. They are not. They have a smaller gdp than california. |
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Posted: 9/4/2023 11:59:21 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: In case you hadn't noticed, the ruble is *already* worthless. Much like it became worthless when the former Soviet Union collapsed. We don't need or want to send them diddly squat. They chose to sow this path. We need to facilitate their collapse so they reap the whirlwind. After the invasion it went to about 120 rubles to the dollar, later stabilized to 60, and now is about 100. But I'm talking worthless... no government, it's worth absolutely zero. How is the fertilizer plant going to pay employees? How will farmers buy seed? |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 12:00:12 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: I am talking about feeding the world, and taking their oil business away from them. The world doesn't need their shit, and we have the ability to replace it. Peter Zeihan on the stability of Russian orl:  Peter Zeihan || How Stable Is the Russian Oil Industry? |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 12:02:56 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: They have a smaller gdp than california. That is definitely true. But they have a lot of resources the world can never get enough of. About 10% of the world's oil exports, by your own numbers. we can't make up for that. Oil prices will go up. |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 12:04:35 AM EDT
[#25]
Someone in this thread is FOS.
https://www.ipi.org/ipi_issues/detail/russias-minuscule-economy-the-mouse-that-roars Given all the economic, political and security turmoil Russia creates for the world, and especially for the democratic countries, you’d be forgiven for thinking that the country is an economic powerhouse. It isn’t. According to Investopedia’s rankings, at $1.48 trillion nominal GDP, Russia has the 11th largest economy in the world, and only represents 1.31 percent of the world’s economy. It’s nominal GDP per capita is $10,126.* The world would easily overcome the total elimination of ruzzia. |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 12:05:03 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: If the Qanon Shaman says a Uke Nazi spy did it, who can dispute that? I’ll confirm with my recently passed cat Miss Cleo. There is something wrong with that woman's brain. |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 12:05:46 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: That is definitely true. But they have a lot of resources the world can never get enough of. About 10% of the world's oil exports, by your own numbers. we can't make up for that. Oil prices will go up. Are you kidding? We can pump enough to drop the price below what they can extract it for if we had the will to do it. |
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NZL
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Posted: 9/5/2023 12:07:53 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: That is definitely true. But they have a lot of resources the world can never get enough of. About 10% of the world's oil exports, by your own numbers. we can't make up for that. Oil prices will go up. Oil prices go up and down, and will regardless of whether Russia exists or pumps oil. That's how free markets work. All the hand-wringing over not being too mean to Russia is pointless. You've made your point, and you do not seem to have any takers. Perhaps it is time to move on to not shitting up the thread? |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 9/5/2023 12:08:44 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: In Ukraine I think there is a fair amount of regrouping going on. Here on the site the antis are backing down so things can be heated up later if their current pattern continues. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: Originally Posted By stone-age: Is it just me or have things quieted down again right now? Russia moved a bunch of top tier units in to contain the push. Maybe it opens something up elsewhere, but likely Ukraine will need to repeat the attrition process on these units with artillery dominance. Time is running out to get about 30km south. Around there 155mm can do a lot of work interdicting any supplies to the southwest front. |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 12:12:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: thanosnap]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Are you kidding? We can pump enough to drop the price below what they can extract it for if we had the will to do it. We would be talking about doubling our oil production, or at least up by 50% if Russia still produces in non-permafrost areas and OPEC increases output. It's just not possible. According to your numbers Russia exports 119 billion barrels. We export 112. Yeah, they're a poor country. But we need their resources to keep flowing. Much more than we need them destroyed. |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 12:13:18 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: No, it's not the truth. At. All. Or, even close. We knew they were going to collapse because we were causing their collapse! *THAT* is undeniable. (As Reagan said, "we win, they lose"). We also knew what was going to happen to the nukes, which was nothing. And, no, "tear down this wall" was specifically referring to the iron curtain of the Soviet Union. It was given at the Brandenburg Gate between East and West Berlin as that was *the* symbol of the iron curtain surrounding the Soviet Union. Again, lack of historical knowledge leads one to spectacularly wrong conclusions about current events and what should be current policy. We need to cause the collapse of Russia, like we did to the USSR before it, so that they can never again threaten their neighbors or cause instability worldwide. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: Originally Posted By thanosnap: Originally Posted By Auto5guy: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/476-342.gif Reagan made all the intellectuals who said the Soviets couldn't be defeated and that he was going to start a nuclear war by trying, look really really stupid. The ivy league idiots have been trying to revise history ever since. Well, the collapse happened under the elder Bush, who was Raegan's VP, and much of the same administration. And at the time they were like "oh crap, what about the nukes! They need to stay together." That's undeniable. Sorry if that makes me look like an idiot but its the truth. And today Russia just isn't that important that we should destroy them and need to worry about loose nukes or people (not just in Russia but around the world) unable to feed themselves or put gas in their car or fertilizer on their crops. There might have been a time in the 70s when they were. And "tear down that wall" was about ending the occupation and reuniting East/West Germany. No, it's not the truth. At. All. Or, even close. We knew they were going to collapse because we were causing their collapse! *THAT* is undeniable. (As Reagan said, "we win, they lose"). We also knew what was going to happen to the nukes, which was nothing. And, no, "tear down this wall" was specifically referring to the iron curtain of the Soviet Union. It was given at the Brandenburg Gate between East and West Berlin as that was *the* symbol of the iron curtain surrounding the Soviet Union. Again, lack of historical knowledge leads one to spectacularly wrong conclusions about current events and what should be current policy. We need to cause the collapse of Russia, like we did to the USSR before it, so that they can never again threaten their neighbors or cause instability worldwide. Well said planemaker Reagan made it crystal clear he wanted to END the Soviet Union. He publicly called them an EVIL EMPIRE. He didn't call them wrong, misguided, or mistaken. He called them EVIL. You don't want to sustain evil. There were some bedwetters in Reagan's administration. They are a built in part of the bureaucracy. When Reagan was on his flight to Germany to make his famous speech some of his staff members pressured his speech writers into removing the "tear down this wall" line. Reagan had to assert himself and put it back in. So it's no surprise that some bureaucratic egghead can be found to say "I was there and we wanted x y or z." Doesn't matter because the bureaucrats didn't set America's policy towards the Soviets. RONALD FREAKING REAGAN DID!! And Ronald Freaking Reagan said the Soviets were an "EVIL EMPIRE" that he wanted to toss "ON THE ASH HEAP OF HISTORY" So when somebody (Looking at you thanosnap) tries to say Reagan wanted to keep the Soviets around their opinion is laughable and worthy of ridicule. They need to go sit at the kids table while the adults are talking. |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 12:15:14 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: No, Russia doesn't feed *or* power much of the world. In fact, they barely feed and power their own country. Production =/= export. Further, your charts are inaccurate. Here's the top wheat *exporters* for 2022: Australia: US$10.2 billion (15.4% of total wheat exports) United States: $8.52 billion (12.9%) Canada: $7.9 billion (12%) France: $7.4 billion (11.2%) Russia: $6.8 billion (10.3%) Argentina: $3.1 billion (4.7%) Ukraine: $2.7 billion (4%) Germany: $2.2 billion (3.3%) For oil it's a similar story: Saudi Arabia: US$224.8 billion (16.7% of exported crude oil) Canada: $120.5 billion (8.9%) Russia: $119.5 billion (8.9%) United States: $117 billion (8.7%) United Arab Emirates: $112.7 billion (8.4%) Iraq: $82.3 billion (6.1%) Norway: $57.8 billion (4.3%) Kuwait: $54.3 billion (4%) Russia is a bit player in the global economy. Causing their collapse will be a boon to the rest of the world. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: Originally Posted By thanosnap: Originally Posted By lorazepam: Fuck that. They need to be fucked so bad that the populace looks at N. korea with jealousy. ... This is the chance to finish them off, and let the outlying areas head to moscow for payback. Well, aside from the loose nukes possibility this is the main problem. Here's global oil output: https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/16274.jpeg Here's global wheat production. A lot of people eat bread or feed livestock with wheat: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Valentina-Mereu/publication/277007923/figure/fig1/AS:749503481118721@1555706963235/List-of-the-largest-wheat-producing-countries-FAOStat-2011.png Here's global fertilizer producers: https://www.fas.usda.gov/sites/default/files/styles/wysiwyg/public/media/images/2022-06/fertilizer-IATR-2.png?itok=ojlaD6o7 What then happens to the economy? Russia feeds and powers much of the world. We can produce for ourselves because we are a top producer, but our economy is so globalized... Even if nukes aren't lost, how many people die just because we don't like the Russian government? How many people have their quality of life reduced? No, Russia doesn't feed *or* power much of the world. In fact, they barely feed and power their own country. Production =/= export. Further, your charts are inaccurate. Here's the top wheat *exporters* for 2022: Australia: US$10.2 billion (15.4% of total wheat exports) United States: $8.52 billion (12.9%) Canada: $7.9 billion (12%) France: $7.4 billion (11.2%) Russia: $6.8 billion (10.3%) Argentina: $3.1 billion (4.7%) Ukraine: $2.7 billion (4%) Germany: $2.2 billion (3.3%) For oil it's a similar story: Saudi Arabia: US$224.8 billion (16.7% of exported crude oil) Canada: $120.5 billion (8.9%) Russia: $119.5 billion (8.9%) United States: $117 billion (8.7%) United Arab Emirates: $112.7 billion (8.4%) Iraq: $82.3 billion (6.1%) Norway: $57.8 billion (4.3%) Kuwait: $54.3 billion (4%) Russia is a bit player in the global economy. Causing their collapse will be a boon to the rest of the world. Interesting that Russia lags behind Canada in both wheat and oil exports. “Boris, make train go faster. Throw another peasant on the fire!” |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 12:15:42 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: We would be talking about doubling our oil production, or at least up by 50% if Russia still produces in non-permafrost areas and OPEC increases output. It's just not possible. According to your numbers Russia exports 119 billion barrels. We export 112. Yeah, they're a poor country. But we need their resources to keep flowing. Not really. There are plenty of idle oil fields here that could pick up the slack. Just need the leases opened up. No one would miss russia except you. |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 12:19:42 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thanosnap: Not if the ruble is worthless. A currency these days is only backed by its government. Not if the oil well heads in the permafrost Siberia freeze over again. It would take at least decade to re-drill again. We would actually need to send them aid again to get this stuff going again. I suppose there will always be farming though, it would just be much tougher. Gee, then I guess Russia better fuck off back to Russia then. You're right, things could get MUCH worse for them, and I sure hope they don't escalate and trip those triggers. |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 12:22:09 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Are you kidding? We can pump enough to drop the price below what they can extract it for if we had the will to do it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Originally Posted By thanosnap: That is definitely true. But they have a lot of resources the world can never get enough of. About 10% of the world's oil exports, by your own numbers. we can't make up for that. Oil prices will go up. Are you kidding? We can pump enough to drop the price below what they can extract it for if we had the will to do it. Now let’s do natural gas! 
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Posted: 9/5/2023 12:28:36 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Auto5guy: Well said planemaker Reagan made it crystal clear he wanted to END the Soviet Union. He publicly called them an EVIL EMPIRE. He didn't call them wrong, misguided, or mistaken. He called them EVIL. You don't want to sustain evil. There were some bedwetters in Reagan's administration. They are a built in part of the bureaucracy. When Reagan was on his flight to Germany to make his famous speech some of his staff members pressured his speech writers into removing the "tear down this wall" line. Reagan had to assert himself and put it back in. So it's no surprise that some bureaucratic egghead can be found to say "I was there and we wanted x y or z." Doesn't matter because the bureaucrats didn't set America's policy towards the Soviets. RONALD FREAKING REAGAN DID!! And Ronald Freaking Reagan said the Soviets were an "EVIL EMPIRE" that he wanted to toss "ON THE ASH HEAP OF HISTORY" So when somebody (Looking at you thanosnap) tries to say Reagan wanted to keep the Soviets around their opinion is laughable and worthy of ridicule. They need to go sit at the kids table while the adults are talking. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Auto5guy: Originally Posted By planemaker: Originally Posted By thanosnap: Originally Posted By Auto5guy: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/476-342.gif Reagan made all the intellectuals who said the Soviets couldn't be defeated and that he was going to start a nuclear war by trying, look really really stupid. The ivy league idiots have been trying to revise history ever since. Well, the collapse happened under the elder Bush, who was Raegan's VP, and much of the same administration. And at the time they were like "oh crap, what about the nukes! They need to stay together." That's undeniable. Sorry if that makes me look like an idiot but its the truth. And today Russia just isn't that important that we should destroy them and need to worry about loose nukes or people (not just in Russia but around the world) unable to feed themselves or put gas in their car or fertilizer on their crops. There might have been a time in the 70s when they were. And "tear down that wall" was about ending the occupation and reuniting East/West Germany. No, it's not the truth. At. All. Or, even close. We knew they were going to collapse because we were causing their collapse! *THAT* is undeniable. (As Reagan said, "we win, they lose"). We also knew what was going to happen to the nukes, which was nothing. And, no, "tear down this wall" was specifically referring to the iron curtain of the Soviet Union. It was given at the Brandenburg Gate between East and West Berlin as that was *the* symbol of the iron curtain surrounding the Soviet Union. Again, lack of historical knowledge leads one to spectacularly wrong conclusions about current events and what should be current policy. We need to cause the collapse of Russia, like we did to the USSR before it, so that they can never again threaten their neighbors or cause instability worldwide. Well said planemaker Reagan made it crystal clear he wanted to END the Soviet Union. He publicly called them an EVIL EMPIRE. He didn't call them wrong, misguided, or mistaken. He called them EVIL. You don't want to sustain evil. There were some bedwetters in Reagan's administration. They are a built in part of the bureaucracy. When Reagan was on his flight to Germany to make his famous speech some of his staff members pressured his speech writers into removing the "tear down this wall" line. Reagan had to assert himself and put it back in. So it's no surprise that some bureaucratic egghead can be found to say "I was there and we wanted x y or z." Doesn't matter because the bureaucrats didn't set America's policy towards the Soviets. RONALD FREAKING REAGAN DID!! And Ronald Freaking Reagan said the Soviets were an "EVIL EMPIRE" that he wanted to toss "ON THE ASH HEAP OF HISTORY" So when somebody (Looking at you thanosnap) tries to say Reagan wanted to keep the Soviets around their opinion is laughable and worthy of ridicule. They need to go sit at the kids table while the adults are talking. I remember Reagan’s speeches on TV and it was astounding to hear such leadership after the Carter handwringing whimpering (sound familiar?). Funny that Reagan used space as a battlespace to bankrupt Soviets and just a couple of weeks ago Russia burns billions of real dollars to run smack into it like a weightless dodo bird 🦤 . Oh the irony! It irons. 
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Posted: 9/5/2023 12:31:53 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Now let’s do natural gas! Yeah, I am done responding to him. It's clogging up a great thread with bullshit. |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 9/5/2023 12:34:07 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Auto5guy: ... RONALD FREAKING REAGAN DID!! ... He did it by bosting the debt pushing debt/gdp from 30% to 50%. If you want to try that trick again keep in mind today our debt/gdp is 120%. |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 12:36:31 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Yeah, I am done responding to him. It's clogging up a great thread with bullshit. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Originally Posted By RockNwood: Now let’s do natural gas! Yeah, I am done responding to him. It's clogging up a great thread with bullshit. Speaking of Russian retardation writ largo Maybe they can big red ❌ to mark them. 
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Posted: 9/5/2023 12:39:27 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By merick: He did it by bosting the debt pushing debt/gdp from 30% to 50%. If you want to try that trick again keep in mind today our debt/gdp is 120%. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By merick: Originally Posted By Auto5guy: ... RONALD FREAKING REAGAN DID!! ... He did it by bosting the debt pushing debt/gdp from 30% to 50%. If you want to try that trick again keep in mind today our debt/gdp is 120%. No need. Russia is imploding all on its own. Ruble is a penny. Revenue is down over 40%. Ukraine is proving to be the new Star Wars. And instead of us spending huge amounts we clean out our surplus closets. |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 12:49:35 AM EDT
[#41]
Third line of defense reached?!!!
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Posted: 9/5/2023 1:08:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RockNwood]
[#42]
Speaking of evil Russian oil being irrelevant 😁 Romania declared Gazprom violated its laws so now all oil production and distribution is done by Romania. I think significantly this “kick in the balls” applies over Transnistra as well.
Ain’t gonna miss ya!
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Posted: 9/5/2023 1:14:37 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Third line of defense reached?!!!
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/494438/IMG_3514-2943340.jpg |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 2:03:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RockNwood]
[#44]
 Time is not a friend to China or Russia. Both are swirling the drain. Good fucking riddance. Fuck Kissinger/Nixon, Fuck Clinton, and Fuck Obama/Clinton. Click To View Spoiler Click To View Spoiler   Today is Monday. Normal workday. It feels like a Sunday morning in Germany. Very quiet. Very little road traffic. Western restaurants used to be a real status symbol to eat in. Now they’re empty. Our freight loads out of here are half of what they used to be. China is in trouble.” These photos from today. These places were full pre-covid. (Must all be in America and Europe).   
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Posted: 9/5/2023 2:16:44 AM EDT
[#45]
The officer added that the invaders' second line of defense is also very powerful, as Russian troops have been entrenched for more than a year. "The second line of Russian defense is quite powerful. I don't know why everyone thinks it is weaker," Shtupun said. |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 2:17:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RockNwood]
[#46]
Dupe
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USA
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Posted: 9/5/2023 2:23:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: PolarBear416]
[#47]
Don't be complacent about China's problems.
Those are real problems, but recall that during the time the United States emerged as the world's superpower we went through multiple depressions including the Great Depression, and still when looked at over the longer horizon it was a time of enormous growth despite the bumpy ride. Growth often isn't managed properly but the underlying fundamentals still favor growth in China for at least a few more decades. We need to take advantage of the opportunity their problems create but not assume the threat is gone. More like they will be distracted for awhile. |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 2:32:01 AM EDT
[#48]
So I guess last week wasn't the big offensive breakthrough they were hoping for?
That sucks. |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 2:33:04 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PolarBear416: Don't be complacent about China's problems. Those are real problems, but recall that during the time the United States emerged as the world's superpower we went through multiple depressions including the Great Depression, and still when looked at over the longer horizon it was a time of enormous growth despite the bumpy ride. Growth often isn't managed properly but the underlying fundamentals still favor growth in China for at least a few more decades. We need to take advantage of the opportunity their problems create but not assume the threat is gone. More like they will be distracted for awhile. A big difference is demographics. In the 30s we still had large families of 4-10 kids being common. That workforce powered us through WW2 and the explosion of industry and growth in the 50-60s. China has the reverse. A massive disparity of mostly males and less than replacement births. Similar to Russia. All industrialized countries are going down that narrow road but Russia leads the way and China not far behind. It will be very ugly for them. |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 2:36:21 AM EDT
[#50]
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