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Link Posted: 1/12/2024 12:12:10 PM EDT
[#1]
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

I have to hand it to the Russians and their steam-punk form and design factor...Maybe steam powered T34's will make an appearance.
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:
Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDpUlktWoAAmNpa?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDo0lr-WUAAs-OO?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDo0mR-XAAAuUbJ?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDo6RDnW4AAuniW?format=jpg&name=large

I have to hand it to the Russians and their steam-punk form and design factor...Maybe steam powered T34's will make an appearance.


This is new and interesting:
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 12:24:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Capta] [#2]
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Originally Posted By vtmarine:

The main posters in this thread believe they are all connected. Putin persuaded the Iranians to persuade Hamas to attack the Jews to distract the United States from Ukraine, etc.
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Originally Posted By vtmarine:
Originally Posted By ad_nauseam:


This is a totally off-topic, unrelated, different war, different theater, different part of the world not logically connected to the thread.
Would you PLEASE create  a separate thread for this as this one is already cluttered to the 9th degree?



The main posters in this thread believe they are all connected. Putin persuaded the Iranians to persuade Hamas to attack the Jews to distract the United States from Ukraine, etc.

Actually it’s Putin assisted the Palestinians in attacking Israel and murdering 1300 people.  Whether Iran was in that loop is unknown but likely.

“We will make sure Ukraine wins as well and we will make sure Russia will pay" - Amir Weitman
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 12:28:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: _disconnector_] [#3]
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

I have to hand it to the Russians and their steam-punk form and design factor...Maybe steam powered T34's will make an appearance.
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:
Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDpUlktWoAAmNpa?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDo0lr-WUAAs-OO?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDo0mR-XAAAuUbJ?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDo6RDnW4AAuniW?format=jpg&name=large

I have to hand it to the Russians and their steam-punk form and design factor...Maybe steam powered T34's will make an appearance.
It's very interesting to me the design decisions and how they vary between the Russians and the West.  Even their bombs look quite different than ours.

Link Posted: 1/12/2024 12:37:52 PM EDT
[#4]
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Originally Posted By JTF:


This is new and interesting:
https://i.postimg.cc/jShNB39S/FAB.jpg
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Originally Posted By JTF:
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:
Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDpUlktWoAAmNpa?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDo0lr-WUAAs-OO?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDo0mR-XAAAuUbJ?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDo6RDnW4AAuniW?format=jpg&name=large

I have to hand it to the Russians and their steam-punk form and design factor...Maybe steam powered T34's will make an appearance.


This is new and interesting:
https://i.postimg.cc/jShNB39S/FAB.jpg


That caught my eye also.. anyways wonder what range they can get with that flying elephant
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 12:39:42 PM EDT
[#5]
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Originally Posted By strykr:

Yes, Russia has trouble fielding proper AESA radars in numbers. However, the F-16s that Ukraine will likely get are not the latest models either. A modern Sukhoi could spell trouble vs a Rafale or Eurofighter, let alone a 70s/80s tech F-16. And we are not talking a USAF situation here. Green Ukrainian pilots vs experienced Russian pilots, I think we need to be realistic.

R77/73 will still get the job done if you launch enough of them. The F-16 can carry what, 6 missiles? It is a small fighter jet. It needs external fuel tanks for most missions, which take up space. And if it is out on a ground strike mission, it might very well only carry 2 Sidewinders just in case it runs into another fighter. Also consider that the Sukhoi has better range, can carry more missiles, and the advantage could very well be on the Sukhoi side for air combat. A few hand me down F-16s will not be enough to dominate the Russian air force.
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Originally Posted By strykr:
Originally Posted By Flogger23m:


The problem with Russian planes is avionics. Radar technology is not as good as the west. This affects everything, including Su-35s. Their missile technology seems to suffer as well. We've seen Su-34s do low level Vietnam style bomb runs on tree lines. We don't do that anymore. We do proper SEAD, then drop a GBU/JDAM from high altitude.

Russia doesn't really have many targetting pods. So while their planes can carry similar weapons they don't have enough pods or smart weapons to go around. They do seem to have a fair amount of cruise missiles, but their AGM-65 and AGM-88 counterparts are seemingly poor in comparison.

It would be like having 100 rifles, but only 200 magazines and 10000 rounds of ammo for them.


As for MIG-35s, last I heard Egypt wasn't too happy with them. Even India is not happy with the MIG-29K and wants to retire them already.

Yes, Russia has trouble fielding proper AESA radars in numbers. However, the F-16s that Ukraine will likely get are not the latest models either. A modern Sukhoi could spell trouble vs a Rafale or Eurofighter, let alone a 70s/80s tech F-16. And we are not talking a USAF situation here. Green Ukrainian pilots vs experienced Russian pilots, I think we need to be realistic.

R77/73 will still get the job done if you launch enough of them. The F-16 can carry what, 6 missiles? It is a small fighter jet. It needs external fuel tanks for most missions, which take up space. And if it is out on a ground strike mission, it might very well only carry 2 Sidewinders just in case it runs into another fighter. Also consider that the Sukhoi has better range, can carry more missiles, and the advantage could very well be on the Sukhoi side for air combat. A few hand me down F-16s will not be enough to dominate the Russian air force.

There was a report that the F-16s were getting a radar upgrade, and someone posted info that a drop-in export AESA was available.
IMO F-16s will probably shoot HARMS for a while to diminish the Russian AD threat.  Remember that Russian fighters are almost exclusively operating behind their own SAMs.  If their SAMs start to go away they become a lot less secure and might be pushed back even further.
It’s standard practice to carry two AMRAAMS on the wingtips now.  Two AMRAAMS, two HARMS, and two tanks is very doable.  Or two AMRAAMS, two JDAMS, and two tanks.
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 12:43:46 PM EDT
[#6]
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Originally Posted By _disconnector_:
It's very interesting to me the design decisions and how they vary between the Russians and the West.  Even their bombs look quite different than ours.

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Originally Posted By _disconnector_:
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:
Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDpUlktWoAAmNpa?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDo0lr-WUAAs-OO?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDo0mR-XAAAuUbJ?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDo6RDnW4AAuniW?format=jpg&name=large

I have to hand it to the Russians and their steam-punk form and design factor...Maybe steam powered T34's will make an appearance.
It's very interesting to me the design decisions and how they vary between the Russians and the West.  Even their bombs look quite different than ours.




Same here, it is what has kept me interested in weapons systems for over 30 years now.
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 12:46:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest] [#7]
Looks like the entire Russian advance was repulsed by FPV drones.  NSFW


https://x.com/region776/status/1745845981017686342
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 1:00:53 PM EDT
[#8]
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Originally Posted By Jaehaerys:

I'm just going by what a number of people in the intelligence community (both current and former) have stated. At the very least, there is a lot of circumstantial evidence. Even R0N, who is extremely opposed to Ukraine aid, acknowledged in a thread a little while ago that there might be something to this. Personally, I don't think Putin convinced Hamas, Iran, and its proxies to go hot, but the timing does strike me as interesting, given that Russia went on the offensive in Avdiivka within 24 hours of the Hamas attack.
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Originally Posted By Jaehaerys:
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:
Originally Posted By vtmarine:

The main posters in this thread believe they are all connected. Putin persuaded the Iranians to persuade Hamas to attack the Jews to distract the United States from Ukraine, etc.

I personally believe this. Except I would use "pushed" instead of persuaded.

I'm just going by what a number of people in the intelligence community (both current and former) have stated. At the very least, there is a lot of circumstantial evidence. Even R0N, who is extremely opposed to Ukraine aid, acknowledged in a thread a little while ago that there might be something to this. Personally, I don't think Putin convinced Hamas, Iran, and its proxies to go hot, but the timing does strike me as interesting, given that Russia went on the offensive in Avdiivka within 24 hours of the Hamas attack.

Thanks for the link.  There was also a post a while back about another highly suspicious indication.  A Russian-linked propaganda website went live with a well-developed anti-Israel narrative and spam news campaign like the day after the attack.  Meaning the narrative already had to be developed and ready to go.
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 1:03:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AROKIE] [#9]
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Originally Posted By ad_nauseam:


We got to put North Korea here as well and China. They are all friends you know.  While at it, why not include Taiwan? Can't exclude them.  They are critical to electronics used in Ukraine. Let's discuss all military engagements here in this very thread.
In fact I have an idea. Let's just have one thread for all military topics, past and present. This one. Obstinacy is a virtue.  

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Originally Posted By ad_nauseam:
Originally Posted By Prime:
Originally Posted By ad_nauseam:
This is a totally off-topic, unrelated, different war, different theater, different part of the world not logically connected to the thread.
Would you PLEASE create  a separate thread for this as this one is already cluttered to the 9th degree?


Though they are tangentially related, events like this absolutely do deserve their own thread. The problem is you get a lot of retarded responses in other threads, but "because retards" is not a great reason to keep them here.

I'll meet you halfway and minimize these posts to big breaking stuff and keep them inside quotes so you don't have to do a lot of scrolling to get past them.



We got to put North Korea here as well and China. They are all friends you know.  While at it, why not include Taiwan? Can't exclude them.  They are critical to electronics used in Ukraine. Let's discuss all military engagements here in this very thread.
In fact I have an idea. Let's just have one thread for all military topics, past and present. This one. Obstinacy is a virtue.  



It only seems to be bothering you, your moaning over it is doing more thread sliding than anything.  I'm glad snippets of the crisis in the middle east is included here as yes it is somewhat related.  And I don't have to Wade through all the bullshit in the other threads to see it.
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 1:09:18 PM EDT
[#10]
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Originally Posted By AROKIE:


It only seems to be bothering you, your moaning over it is doing more thread sliding than anything.  I'm glad snippets of the crisis in the middle east is included here as yes it is somewhat related.  And I don't have to Wade through all the bullshit in the other threads to see it.
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Agree. Stop trying to run the thread if you aren't a mod. Bring your list of complaints up with them.
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 1:13:27 PM EDT
[#11]
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Originally Posted By ad_nauseam:
Really the "Big Picture" is that Ukraine has shown tremendous restraint. If I were in place of Zelensky, I would have found a way to demolish Kremlin. Something symbolic without any casualties. The big Kremlin tower with the big clock on it, or maybe St Basil's Cathedral, the one on the Red Square. Or the Lenin tomb where the freak still resides.  

Just f-ing strike it. If they can strike Kiev and kill sleeping 2 year olds on a daily basis, common sense would suggest it's only fair game to hit Moscow. They won't understand otherwise. This will have to be ended *IN* Russia. Just trust me on this one.

nato is stupid. What if that leads to escalation? I mean, what are they going to do, if Moscow is hit?   Bomb Kiev?

We are living the worst scenario. And Putin got too much vested to strike London or Berlin or anything like that. If he can't conquer a neighboring republic which is 27 times smaller territory-wise and 1/4 of the population, and the GDP is also much less. What hope does he have of conquering anything bigger than that? And if he can't conquer Germany/Berlin/US, there is utterly no point in starting a conflict with them under any circumstances. So nato/us' fear of retaliation is unfounded. Give Ukrops some long range missiles and target Moscow. Target the 870 year old Kremlin.

There, I said it.

NATO/US strategists are wrong.

The more damage Russia itself takes, the less likely it will continue the war and it needs internal destabilization and ultimately collapse of Putinism. That's why I think ultimately both RDK and the Legion Free Russia will play a key role in the process. They fight alongside the Ukrop partners, for now but when/if the way is over, they plan to march on Moscow itself.
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I would modify one thing. A symbolic target in Moscow is nice, but if there are limited long-range strike options, the #1 targets should be gas/oil production facilities in the east & north. Take away Russia's resource wealth, and the whole calculus changes. Even cutting their production in half would wreck their export business, and they'd be forced to use most of their remaining production domestically and for war. If production could be reduced by 75% or more, it would start to impact their ability to fight, and that is how you win wars.
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 1:32:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 1:38:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4xGM300m] [#13]


Orc propaganda.  

Link Posted: 1/12/2024 1:42:50 PM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 2:05:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Probably just a misquote/mistranslation, but:

Newsweek
Ukrainian forces destroyed 26 Russian helicopters in a single day using an unknown long-range weapon supplied by Kyiv's allies, Volodymyr Zelensky has claimed.

During a press conference with journalists in Latvia on Thursday, the Ukrainian president remained light on details when discussing the use of the mystery weapon, not disclosing which country had provided the system, how long it had been in operation or when it had been used against the helicopters.

"Partners have provided us with some long-range weapons," he said, according to a translation by Ukrainian news outlet RBC. "I won't say what, but our partners will understand.

"With it, we destroyed 26 helicopters in a day, and 12 planes that took off and attacked with missiles, against which these systems were working. We destroyed 12 at once."

Newsweek approached the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense via email for comment on Friday.

According to the Ukrainian Armed Force's own tally, they have not taken out any Russian helicopters since October 19, when they say they destroyed one so it is unclear if the 26 referenced by Zelensky were destroyed recently but were previously undisclosed, or if they were destroyed over three months ago.

Link Posted: 1/12/2024 2:09:19 PM EDT
[#17]
Independent Russian media out of Latvia



Most of those who returned to Russia during the last exchange of prisoners are ex-prisoners
Such an approach to the exchange may be due to the fact that it is easier to force convicts to return to the front

On January 3, Russia and Ukraine conducted their first prisoner exchange in six months. According to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, 248 servicemen returned to Russia as part of the new exchange. At the same time, 73% of them (180 people) were recruited by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation in colonies, according to the project "Our Way Out", which is engaged in the search and return of prisoners in cooperation with the state Ukrainian platform "I Want to Find".

It is alleged that Ukraine was preparing a larger number of Russian contract soldiers and mobilized soldiers for exchange, but the final lists mainly included former prisoners.

The "Our Exit" project also published a list of 248 Russian prisoners who returned home. IStories checked the people on this list with a random sample and made sure that it mainly consists of convicts in recent years who were supposed to serve their sentences during the war in Ukraine. The editorial office also contacted the relatives of those on the exchange list and confirmed that they were indeed returned to Russia on January 3.

Among those exchanged are those who have been repeatedly convicted, convicted of murder, including of close family members, kidnapping, robbery and extortion, and other especially grave crimes.

Among the exchanged prisoners of war is Anton Meshcheryakov, a prisoner of a colony in the Leningrad Region, who was recruited into the Shtorm-Z detachment, his relative and colleague confirmed to Important Stories.


https://istories.media/news/2024/01/12/bolshinstvo-vernuvshikhsya-v-rossiyu-v-khode-poslednego-obmena-plennikh-eks-zaklyuchennie/


Anton Meshcheryakov in captivity

Before the start of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Meshcheryakov served a five-year sentence in colony No. 4 in Fornosovo, Leningrad Region, under the "people's" Article 228 of the Criminal Code. By the time the contract with the Ministry of Defense was signed, he had 2 years left in prison. "He didn't have the opportunity to get parole, so he went to war," says a relative of Meshcheryakov.

According to a former colleague of Meshcheryakov, in the Donetsk region, the man was part of a separate detachment of "blacks", where the most hardy were selected from among the former prisoners, to perform "especially difficult tasks" at night. During the offensives in the winter and spring of last year, most of the members of the "black" detachment were killed, some are still missing. Meshcheryakov himself was seriously wounded near Maryinka and was taken prisoner.

Meshcheryakov told a relative that he was treated normally in the camp, although he complained about the lack of heating. The prisoners were fed porridge and bread, they worked on gluing paper bags.



From the moment the serviceman was taken prisoner, Meshcheryakov's relatives sought his exchange: they wrote letters to various authorities, communicated with volunteers.

"We were told: 'we are waiting for the exchange, we are waiting for the exchange'... And we could not understand on whom this exchange depends," says a relative of the ex-prisoner. "It's just that the camp called the exchange lists, and Anton was on that list."

On December 31, 2023, Meshcheryakov and other prisoners of war were taken out of a camp in the Lviv region. "For several days, they were kept somewhere and collected from different camps. He does not know where exactly, but he says that the bugs were bitten. Probably some kind of basement. Then they were brought to Belgorod, and on January 3 they were sent by plane to Moscow. Before boarding the plane, they gave me SIM cards and clothes, and he called," our interlocutor explained.

Now Meshcheryakov, along with other exchangeees, is in a military unit in the Moscow region. According to the interlocutor of Important Stories, it was explained to the servicemen that they would stay there for about a month, during which time the FSB would "work with them."

They were not told anything about the fate of the former prisoners. "I don't think Anton can be returned to the front. His contract expired in August. In addition, there are many wounds: contusion, cyst and hematoma in the head. And shrapnel in the body," says a relative.

"The concussion changed him a lot, he began to forget a lot. He doesn't even remember which unit he served in," said a former colleague who spoke to Meshcheryakov by phone.

Relatives fear that the serviceman's problems may arise because of a video recording in which Meshcheryakov, while in captivity, criticized the Russian command.


Oleg Shunin in captivity

Oleg Shunin, who was sentenced in January 2023 by a court in Voronezh to 11 years of strict regime for the murder of a drinking companion, also returned from captivity, his relative confirmed to Important Stories.

"After his release from captivity, he contacted me, but for two days he has not been in touch, the phone is out of reach. He said that in the Moscow region, some of them are undergoing a medical examination, the FSB is questioning them. There is no information at all about what will happen to him next," she said.

The Our Way project believes that the lists for exchange mainly included former prisoners, since it is easier to send them back to the front, motivating this by the need to fulfill the "conditions" of pardon. "Prisoners are easier to manage, they can be manipulated, and most importantly, they can be sent back to war. It is hard to realize how the Russian government once again spat on the mobilized who are now in captivity in Ukraine," write social activists who were present at the exchange.

A lawyer with the Appeal to Conscience coalition, who works with military personnel participating in the war, believes that such a proportion of prisoners and ordinary soldiers in the exchange lists is unlikely to be due to the desire to return them to the front. "They [ex-prisoners] end up in stormtroopers more often than others, and stormtroopers are more likely to be captured," he told Important Stories. "The ban on returning to the front is based on international norms, not Russian law. Therefore, theoretically, there are no obstacles for any group to return to the front. At the beginning of the war, there were even conscripts who had to complete their military service after captivity."

https://istories.media/news/2024/01/12/bolshinstvo-vernuvshikhsya-v-rossiyu-v-khode-poslednego-obmena-plennikh-eks-zaklyuchennie/

Link Posted: 1/12/2024 2:13:37 PM EDT
[#18]
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Originally Posted By 7empest:



Always has been.

Rape of Berlin as a start.
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Originally Posted By 7empest:
Originally Posted By Jaehaerys:



Always has been.

Rape of Berlin as a start.



Not a "start," more like an "opportunity for continuation." Rapes happened across Eastern Europe, not just Germany.


Russians even rape their own- look up the history of the NKVD chief, Beria.
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 2:20:19 PM EDT
[#19]
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Originally Posted By yekimak:

That one was a rough watch.
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Originally Posted By yekimak:
Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
NSFW.  There does not seem to be a shortage of grenades for drones to drop anymore.


That one was a rough watch.
Agreed.  Hard to watch.
" You wonder what his name is... where he came from. And if he was really evil at heart. What lies or threats led him on this long march from home. If he would not rather have stayed there in peace." - Faramir.

A shame that so many Russians waste their lives in this needless war.

Link Posted: 1/12/2024 2:21:55 PM EDT
[#20]
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Originally Posted By ad_nauseam:
Three generations of family killed in Russian missile strike – BBC News
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TggPA1rBAf4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV5YhQbxrPI


These two are about the same incident.  
A 3-month old. At 1:00 the woman eloquently explains that it's our common pain, there is that matter of commonality and ultimately unity and empathy, they deal with it together.

Qualities which are absent in sociopaths and psychopaths who are unable to authentically process these feelings towards their neighbors. The situation in Ukraine is in fact very much analogous to a house in which a neighbor has taken hostages and is sadistically killing them one by one, Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer style, you know cannibals who tortured and then consumed their victims. Except that in the case of Ukraine, their neighbors are debating whether to interfere and help, since it's not their house and they should worry about their internal issues. Except that no country on the planet is immune to a colossal humanitarian disaster which is currently unfolding in Ukraine, not even the US. Who knows what will happen here in the future.
Ukrainian children died yesterday, today and without a doubt, someone, somewhere, will die tomorrow or the day after tomorrow under a "Kinzhal" hypersonic missile or  a Shahed. It's unknown who and where, but someone in Ukraine will definitely get hit tomorrow.



Six year old girl here. Doctors weren't able to save her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PNi_x8uMEc

a 4 year old here. It goes on and on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZFUCf6Xk8M


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwpuYIrkMYo

2 year old here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvStWh_aeWw


2 year old boy from Mariupol


6 year old

A wounded 3-year old from Mariopul is calling for his father:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEMklu8EXu8

А 3 year old lost his legs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VPHO92s2Ps

Meanwhile, here is what Republicans are doing. Backstabbing Ukraine to our enemies delight. Sabotaging the war effort.   Sickening and disturbing doesn't even begin to encompass it.  

https://i.imgur.com/sWePw4x.mp4

http://i.imgur.com/sWePw4x.mp4
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Russia has a psychopathic culture and is lead by a psychopath. It amazes me that other world leaders extend the same courtesies and inclusion to Russia as any other country. Including the idea of negotiating issues. Rather than isolating them and minimizing interactions.

When it comes to psychopaths and sociopaths:
There is no negotiating with them.
They do not think like we do.
They never associate consequences with their actions, bad things are ALWAYS the fault of others.
They will never feel sympathy or remorse for hurting others.
They enjoy stirring up shit.
They understand better than anyone that information is a weapon. Never share info with them for any reason.
They are pathological liars at all times.
The best approach is to stay away from them. Do not negotiate, make your plans based on the sound assumption they will lie, cheat, steal or sabotage any “deal.”  Your words mean nothing to them.


Link Posted: 1/12/2024 2:23:25 PM EDT
[#21]
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Originally Posted By Prime:

The Houthi militia announced the killing of 5 of its members and the wounding of 6 others following the American-British strikes that struck several military sites belonging to the militia at dawn on Friday.

The Houthi military spokesman, Ali X, said that American and British forces launched 73 raids on Yemen.

He added that the militia would not hesitate to "target sources of threat and all hostile targets on land and sea in defense of Yemen, its sovereignty and independence," as he put it.

He stressed that the militia members "will continue to prevent Israeli ships or other ships heading to Israel from passing through the Red Sea and the Arabian Sea."


https://www.adengad.net/news/721000


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Rising oil prices directly benefits Russia and Iran.


Link Posted: 1/12/2024 2:23:30 PM EDT
[#22]
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Originally Posted By 4xGM300m:


Orc propaganda.  

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With their top of the line, military grade Chinese Baofeng radio getting prime billing.  
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 2:26:04 PM EDT
[#23]
This morning (ET)

Dnipropetrovsk Governor
The enemy hit the Dnipro district with a rocket. No dead or injured. ▪️It was also loud in Synelnykiv Oblast. An agricultural enterprise was damaged there. People are whole. ▪️Russian troops were hit by artillery in Nikopol three times. The utility company was beaten. Fortunately, there were no casualties there either.
https://t.me/dnipropetrovskaODA/9945


Map of current worries ‼️ Vibuhi ‼️ Rockets ‼️
🚀→Dnipro/region
💥Dnipropetrovsk region - vibuhi

https://t.me/povitryanatrivogaaa/74713

Link Posted: 1/12/2024 2:27:33 PM EDT
[#24]
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Originally Posted By ad_nauseam:



Really the "Big Picture" is that Ukraine has shown tremendous restraint. If I were in place of Zelensky, I would have found a way to demolish Kremlin. Something symbolic without any casualties. The big Kremlin tower with the big clock on it, or maybe St Basil's Cathedral, the one on the Red Square. Or the Lenin tomb where the freak still resides.  

Just f-ing strike it. If they can strike Kiev and kill sleeping 2 year olds on a daily basis, common sense would suggest it's only fair game to hit Moscow. They won't understand otherwise. This will have to be ended *IN* Russia. Just trust me on this one.

nato is stupid. What if that leads to escalation? I mean, what are they going to do, if Moscow is hit?   Bomb Kiev?

We are living the worst scenario. And Putin got too much vested to strike London or Berlin or anything like that. If he can't conquer a neighboring republic which is 27 times smaller territory-wise and 1/4 of the population, and the GDP is also much less. What hope does he have of conquering anything bigger than that? And if he can't conquer Germany/Berlin/US, there is utterly no point in starting a conflict with them under any circumstances. So nato/us' fear of retaliation is unfounded. Give Ukrops some long range missiles and target Moscow. Target the 870 year old Kremlin.

There, I said it.

NATO/US strategists are wrong.

The more damage Russia itself takes, the less likely it will continue the war and it needs internal destabilization and ultimately collapse of Putinism. That's why I think ultimately both RDK and the Legion Free Russia will play a key role in the process. They fight alongside the Ukrop partners, for now but when/if the way is over, they plan to march on Moscow itself.
View Quote



Yeah I would have ordered parts of the elephants foot sent to Moscow among other things if I were Zelenskyy.....
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 2:27:58 PM EDT
[#25]
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Originally Posted By vahog:


But only as a last resort (or next to last). The Poles did that in 1920 and they almost ended up exactly like Ukraine.

The Poles would need to have an exit strategy and that might be problematic -- they could end up in same situation the Ukrainians are in now.

Opening a land war against Russia could easily have been Vizzini's line in Princess Bride.

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Originally Posted By vahog:
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

I had the same thoughts. It almost seems like NATO membership has a downside in that they have to behave. If it starts to look like Ukraine will lose, they really must make a move before Russia regains strength and momentum.


But only as a last resort (or next to last). The Poles did that in 1920 and they almost ended up exactly like Ukraine.

The Poles would need to have an exit strategy and that might be problematic -- they could end up in same situation the Ukrainians are in now.

Opening a land war against Russia could easily have been Vizzini's line in Princess Bride.


The land war has already started. The Poles can either enter it alongside Ukraine and have a good chance of ending Russia for good. OR, wait for Ukraine to be defeated (assuming waning support from the West) and then face Russia alone (with same cheerleaders Ukraine has). They might try to bestir NATO by warning them You guys either get serious and give Ukraine what it needs out of your active duty supplies now, or we have no choice but to mobilize ourselves and jump in while Ukraine is still a force.


Link Posted: 1/12/2024 2:34:49 PM EDT
[#26]
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Originally Posted By Easterner:


This is just the tip of the iceberg as far as what's available. Soft ballistic panels are available for just about anywhere you want them. I only have the front crotch, rear lumbar, and the wrap around cumberbund. Supposedly  will stop 9mm (level 1). Don't want to test it out. It really isn't much of a big addition in weight like hard plates are.

These easily attach to the Velcro that holds the main plate opening shut. There are also shoulder pads, upper arms, neck, and upper legs. I have seen inserts that fit in elbows and knees.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/IMG_20240111_190836_2_jpg-3090100.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/IMG_20240111_192212_2_jpg-3090125.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/IMG_20240111_190924_2_jpg-3090101.JPG

Example:
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/bronezhilet-warmor-4-klasc-zashchity-ves-3090148.JPG
View Quote

Nodding head "Yes"  stay safe mang, stay frosty
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 2:35:54 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History

If the Republicans are serious about solving the border and not just using it as a perpetual vote carrot, they should first work on converting the US Chamber of Commerce. The big money comes from the US multinationals that want top consumer markets and lowest worker wages. Unless those companies are convinced to quit spending millions on lobbying for open borders nothing will change.

And the Rs have to get it through their pig heads that the Dems don’t really care about Ukraine, not even in their top 10 issues.


Link Posted: 1/12/2024 2:37:28 PM EDT
[#28]
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

I personally believe this. Except I would use "pushed" instead of persuaded.
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:
Originally Posted By vtmarine:

The main posters in this thread believe they are all connected. Putin persuaded the Iranians to persuade Hamas to attack the Jews to distract the United States from Ukraine, etc.

I personally believe this. Except I would use "pushed" instead of persuaded.

Who massively benefits from higher oil prices?
Who has a history of stirring up shit in various regions to entangle the West and benefit itself?




Link Posted: 1/12/2024 2:44:18 PM EDT
[#29]
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Originally Posted By RockNwood:

Russia has a psychopathic culture and is lead by a psychopath. It amazes me that other world leaders extend the same courtesies and inclusion to Russia as any other country. Including the idea of negotiating issues. Rather than isolating them and minimizing interactions.

When it comes to psychopaths and sociopaths:
There is no negotiating with them.
They do not think like we do.
They never associate consequences with their actions, bad things are ALWAYS the fault of others.
They will never feel sympathy or remorse for hurting others.
They enjoy stirring up shit.
They understand better than anyone that information is a weapon. Never share info with them for any reason.
They are pathological liars at all times.
The best approach is to stay away from them. Do not negotiate, make your plans based on the sound assumption they will lie, cheat, steal or sabotage any “deal.”  Your words mean nothing to them.
View Quote

Can a country be Sociopathic?  I think so too.
The only way to permanently defeat  a Sociopath
Is to kill it.  Maybe, also burn the remains, over water.
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 2:55:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RockNwood] [#30]
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Originally Posted By K0UA:



Exactly. These are all related, and perhaps the beginning of WW3 if we don't prevent it.
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Originally Posted By K0UA:
Originally Posted By vtmarine:
Originally Posted By ad_nauseam:


This is a totally off-topic, unrelated, different war, different theater, different part of the world not logically connected to the thread.
Would you PLEASE create  a separate thread for this as this one is already cluttered to the 9th degree?



The main posters in this thread believe they are all connected. Putin persuaded the Iranians to persuade Hamas to attack the Jews to distract the United States from Ukraine, etc.



Exactly. These are all related, and perhaps the beginning of WW3 if we don't prevent it.

One of the great failures of the west is to treat all these flare ups as isolated incidences rather than symptoms of the strategy of a few terrorist states collaborating.

Also, I find it amusing that most derail complaints come from posters that contribute very little content, while the “derail” posts are from guys that post 100 direct Ukraine items for every one about the broader conflict.

I am a relative newbie and have still posted a a few hundred Ukraine items plus my own cynical hyperbole opinions about the war in Ukraine. Many others guys have posted many thousands. But every month or so we get one or two guys that have not posted much content start complaining of detail!  

The best antidote to what seems a derail is to flood the thread with good content.


Link Posted: 1/12/2024 2:59:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime] [#31]


https://twitter.com/UKikaski/status/1745792016473100378
Low flyover
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 3:01:43 PM EDT
[#32]
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:



I would modify one thing. A symbolic target in Moscow is nice, but if there are limited long-range strike options, the #1 targets should be gas/oil production facilities in the east & north. Take away Russia's resource wealth, and the whole calculus changes. Even cutting their production in half would wreck their export business, and they'd be forced to use most of their remaining production domestically and for war. If production could be reduced by 75% or more, it would start to impact their ability to fight, and that is how you win wars.
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:
Originally Posted By ad_nauseam:
Really the "Big Picture" is that Ukraine has shown tremendous restraint. If I were in place of Zelensky, I would have found a way to demolish Kremlin. Something symbolic without any casualties. The big Kremlin tower with the big clock on it, or maybe St Basil's Cathedral, the one on the Red Square. Or the Lenin tomb where the freak still resides.  

Just f-ing strike it. If they can strike Kiev and kill sleeping 2 year olds on a daily basis, common sense would suggest it's only fair game to hit Moscow. They won't understand otherwise. This will have to be ended *IN* Russia. Just trust me on this one.

nato is stupid. What if that leads to escalation? I mean, what are they going to do, if Moscow is hit?   Bomb Kiev?

We are living the worst scenario. And Putin got too much vested to strike London or Berlin or anything like that. If he can't conquer a neighboring republic which is 27 times smaller territory-wise and 1/4 of the population, and the GDP is also much less. What hope does he have of conquering anything bigger than that? And if he can't conquer Germany/Berlin/US, there is utterly no point in starting a conflict with them under any circumstances. So nato/us' fear of retaliation is unfounded. Give Ukrops some long range missiles and target Moscow. Target the 870 year old Kremlin.

There, I said it.

NATO/US strategists are wrong.

The more damage Russia itself takes, the less likely it will continue the war and it needs internal destabilization and ultimately collapse of Putinism. That's why I think ultimately both RDK and the Legion Free Russia will play a key role in the process. They fight alongside the Ukrop partners, for now but when/if the way is over, they plan to march on Moscow itself.



I would modify one thing. A symbolic target in Moscow is nice, but if there are limited long-range strike options, the #1 targets should be gas/oil production facilities in the east & north. Take away Russia's resource wealth, and the whole calculus changes. Even cutting their production in half would wreck their export business, and they'd be forced to use most of their remaining production domestically and for war. If production could be reduced by 75% or more, it would start to impact their ability to fight, and that is how you win wars.

Excellent point. Putin is immune to public option and he doesn’t care that much about symbolism except how it can be used against his enemies.

The best way to hurt Putin and Russia is the pocketbook and that means gas and oil production and transport.


Link Posted: 1/12/2024 3:18:19 PM EDT
[#33]
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Originally Posted By Easterner:


This is just the tip of the iceberg as far as what's available. Soft ballistic panels are available for just about anywhere you want them. I only have the front crotch, rear lumbar, and the wrap around cumberbund. Supposedly  will stop 9mm (level 1). Don't want to test it out. It really isn't much of a big addition in weight like hard plates are.

These easily attach to the Velcro that holds the main plate opening shut. There are also shoulder pads, upper arms, neck, and upper legs. I have seen inserts that fit in elbows and knees.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/IMG_20240111_190836_2_jpg-3090100.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/IMG_20240111_192212_2_jpg-3090125.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/IMG_20240111_190924_2_jpg-3090101.JPG

Example:
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/bronezhilet-warmor-4-klasc-zashchity-ves-3090148.JPG
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By Easterner:
Originally Posted By Capta:
Originally Posted By walkinginadangerzone:
Originally Posted By johnh57:
Originally Posted By Capta:

IMO frag effect on people is hard to judge visually from a drone spotter.  It’s probably better to look at burst distance and any cover to judge whether they likely collected frag.
The video that brought that home to me was one of K2 Battalion in Bakhmut.  IIRC it was “Battle of T-shape”.  They dropped arty and mortars on a Russian assault unit of 20-30 people and from the drone spotter it looked pretty questionable whether they wounded more than 2-3 Russians.  Then they filmed ground level with clean-up infantry which made it obvious the Russians were just butchered.  Body parts here and there, dudes torn in half, bloody dressings everywhere.  Humans are the squishiest thing on the battlefield.


Seems odd though that the drone dropped grenades don't do more damage to the squishies.  This latest one took like 5 grenades to finally dead the guy.


Body armor helps.

The front/back plate probably prevents more instakills, but Russian problems with first aid, CASEVAC and medical care later might nullify that benefit due to hits elsewhere causing slightly slower death.
This war really needs a high-coverage soft armor suit.


This is just the tip of the iceberg as far as what's available. Soft ballistic panels are available for just about anywhere you want them. I only have the front crotch, rear lumbar, and the wrap around cumberbund. Supposedly  will stop 9mm (level 1). Don't want to test it out. It really isn't much of a big addition in weight like hard plates are.

These easily attach to the Velcro that holds the main plate opening shut. There are also shoulder pads, upper arms, neck, and upper legs. I have seen inserts that fit in elbows and knees.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/IMG_20240111_190836_2_jpg-3090100.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/IMG_20240111_192212_2_jpg-3090125.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/IMG_20240111_190924_2_jpg-3090101.JPG

Example:
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/bronezhilet-warmor-4-klasc-zashchity-ves-3090148.JPG



Reminds me of the armor kits you could get in the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games (all developed by Ukrainians, by the way!).
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 3:23:37 PM EDT
[#34]
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:



I would modify one thing. A symbolic target in Moscow is nice, but if there are limited long-range strike options, the #1 targets should be gas/oil production facilities in the east & north. Take away Russia's resource wealth, and the whole calculus changes. Even cutting their production in half would wreck their export business, and they'd be forced to use most of their remaining production domestically and for war. If production could be reduced by 75% or more, it would start to impact their ability to fight, and that is how you win wars.
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:
Originally Posted By ad_nauseam:
Really the "Big Picture" is that Ukraine has shown tremendous restraint. If I were in place of Zelensky, I would have found a way to demolish Kremlin. Something symbolic without any casualties. The big Kremlin tower with the big clock on it, or maybe St Basil's Cathedral, the one on the Red Square. Or the Lenin tomb where the freak still resides.  

Just f-ing strike it. If they can strike Kiev and kill sleeping 2 year olds on a daily basis, common sense would suggest it's only fair game to hit Moscow. They won't understand otherwise. This will have to be ended *IN* Russia. Just trust me on this one.

nato is stupid. What if that leads to escalation? I mean, what are they going to do, if Moscow is hit?   Bomb Kiev?

We are living the worst scenario. And Putin got too much vested to strike London or Berlin or anything like that. If he can't conquer a neighboring republic which is 27 times smaller territory-wise and 1/4 of the population, and the GDP is also much less. What hope does he have of conquering anything bigger than that? And if he can't conquer Germany/Berlin/US, there is utterly no point in starting a conflict with them under any circumstances. So nato/us' fear of retaliation is unfounded. Give Ukrops some long range missiles and target Moscow. Target the 870 year old Kremlin.

There, I said it.

NATO/US strategists are wrong.

The more damage Russia itself takes, the less likely it will continue the war and it needs internal destabilization and ultimately collapse of Putinism. That's why I think ultimately both RDK and the Legion Free Russia will play a key role in the process. They fight alongside the Ukrop partners, for now but when/if the way is over, they plan to march on Moscow itself.



I would modify one thing. A symbolic target in Moscow is nice, but if there are limited long-range strike options, the #1 targets should be gas/oil production facilities in the east & north. Take away Russia's resource wealth, and the whole calculus changes. Even cutting their production in half would wreck their export business, and they'd be forced to use most of their remaining production domestically and for war. If production could be reduced by 75% or more, it would start to impact their ability to fight, and that is how you win wars.


That is the pragmatic view. And you right. That's target number 2.
I was hoping to make a symbolic statement. Take this down. Every single person in the country knows what it is and what it represents.  It would send a message for sure. Moscow itself would not be what it is without the clock.

Kremlin clock


This war is never going to end otherwise. Just realize it's a 2 or 5 or 10 year engagement. Even the change of power there does not mean anything, maybe another hardliner will come to power after Putin.
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 3:28:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime] [#35]
🔴 21:17 Air alert in Sumy region. Stay tuned for further messages. #Sumy region


Flight of Shahedov through Sumy Oblast in the direction of Chernihiv Oblast.
https://t.me/kpszsu/9687



Link Posted: 1/12/2024 3:37:17 PM EDT
[#36]
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Originally Posted By fervid_dryfire:



Not a "start," more like an "opportunity for continuation." Rapes happened across Eastern Europe, not just Germany.


Russians even rape their own- look up the history of the NKVD chief, Beria.
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Originally Posted By fervid_dryfire:
Originally Posted By 7empest:
Originally Posted By Jaehaerys:



Always has been.

Rape of Berlin as a start.



Not a "start," more like an "opportunity for continuation." Rapes happened across Eastern Europe, not just Germany.


Russians even rape their own- look up the history of the NKVD chief, Beria.


True.  To say that the 'Russian War of War" began with Berlin is to ignore a LOT of Russian/Eastern European history going back as far as the 900's AD
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 3:43:29 PM EDT
[#37]
Not sure if there is a translation, but the executive summary is:
The woman talks how happy she is that he and her child spent an evening in  warm family atmosphere with Putin. Her child got to see his horses, and how magnificent it all was.

She expresses delight and radiates with joy on a cold January day.   It's -20C now FWIW.

The reason she is there is because her husband got blown up in Ukraine per dictator's orders.  Along with with other war widows.

You can't help that country.  It's so far off the scale of normalcy that words defy me.  It's the Stockholm  Syndrome to the Nth degree.

??????? ??? ?? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ???????? ???????... ?????? ???????? ?????????
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 3:46:18 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RockNwood:

Excellent point. Putin is immune to public option and he doesn’t care that much about symbolism except how it can be used against his enemies.

The best way to hurt Putin and Russia is the pocketbook and that means gas and oil production and transport.


View Quote



He doesn't. The public would notice the Kremlin tower gone. It stood there for 800 years or such. Well, the original Kremlin was wood, in 1200AD, not sure when they built the brick variant but the Kremlin tower is highly symbolic, for example every New Year entails watching that clock strike 12. It's like their Times Square variant.  I think with the clock gone they would realize Ukrops are serious and the next target will be something other than the Kremlin towers.
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 4:00:45 PM EDT
[#39]
In the Mykolaiv region, a soldier shot his commander, and then committed suicide

In the Mykolaiv region, a serviceman shot his commander, and then committed suicide.
This was reported to an Ukrinform correspondent by the head of the Mykolaiv Specialized Prosecutor's Office in the field of defense of the Southern region, Andriy Kliopov.

"The incident took place on January 7. The serviceman shot the deputy company commander about six times with his own machine gun, as a result of which he died. Then the serviceman shot himself," Kliopov said.

According to him, criminal proceedings have been initiated. The investigation is carried out by the Investigative Department of the Main Directorate of the National Police in Mykolaiv region, procedural guidance is provided by the Mykolaiv Special Prosecutor's Office in the field of defense.

Other circumstances of the incident are being established, interrogations of witnesses are ongoing.

As reported, in June 2023 in the Mykolaiv region, a young man killed three people, after which he shot himself.

https://www.ukrinform.ua/rubric-regions/3812600-na-mikolaivsini-vijskovij-zastreliv-svogo-komandira-a-todi-pokinciv-zitta-samogubstvom.html

Link Posted: 1/12/2024 4:03:06 PM EDT
[#40]
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Originally Posted By lorazepam:

The average kevlar vest will not stop a knife attack, and I doubt it will stop most fragmentation. There is probably improvement since I was around it, but in my experience I would rather have something chain mail like instead.
View Quote

A straight dagger thurst CAN penitrate.  Yet that is not what it's made for.  It's made to stop frag....hence the name Flack jacket.  It does that well
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 4:09:32 PM EDT
[#41]
Commission approves €126 million Romanian State aid scheme to support ports facing increased trade flows due to Russia's war against Ukraine

The European Commission has approved, under EU State aid rules, a  €126 million Romanian scheme to support investments in ports facing increased trade flows after Russia's war against Ukraine. The measure facilitate flow trades in and from Ukraine in line with the  objectives of the EU's Solidarity Lanes action plan.

The Romanian scheme

Romania notified to the Commission its plans to support companies active in certain Romanian ports to invest in additional handling or storage facilities for processing goods deviated from their normal trading routes due to Russia's war against Ukraine, and the collapse of Ukraine's direct maritime export routes. The scheme, with a budget of €126 million (around RON 626 million), will run until 31 December 2024.

Under the scheme, the aid will take the form of grants up to €10 million to logistics companies active in Romanian maritime and inland ports located on: (i) the eastern border of the EU (Constanta, Galati, Giurgiu); (ii) the Danube - Black Sea Canal (Poarta Alba, Midia, and Navodari); (iii) the Sulina Canal or in the "satellite" ports of Constanța (Midia, and Mangalia). The aid cannot exceed the lowest of the following amounts: (i) €10 million per beneficiary, (ii) the funding gap, or (iii) 65% of the eligible costs of the project.

The measure will be partly funded through EU Cohesion funds and will contribute to the functioning of the EU-Ukraine Solidarity Lanes  by facilitating the trade flows in and from Ukraine.

The Commission's assessment

The Commission assessed the measure under EU State aid rules, in particular Article 107(3)(c) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, which enables Member States to support the development of certain economic activities subject to certain conditions.

The Commission found that:

The aid is necessary and appropriate to trigger the investment, which could not be carried out absent the aid as neither a market investor nor any financial institution would have financed it on commercial terms due to the uncertainties linked to the Russian war and the temporary nature of the trade flows it created.  
The aid is proportionate and limited to the minimum necessary to trigger the investments. Moreover, the aid level is based on a proven funding gap. Operators can receive only the aid that is necessary to cover the additional cost of equipment and storage needed for handling goods diverted from their normal trading routes.
The positive effects of the aid outweigh any potential negative effects on competition and trade between EU Member States. The trade flows concerned have naturally appeared in the ports that are geographically closest to Ukraine and will disappear once the crisis is resolved.
On that basis, the Commission approved the Romanian scheme under EU State aid rules.

For More Information

The non-confidential version of the decision will be made available under the case number SA.109965 in the State aid register on the Commission's competition website once any confidentiality issues have been resolved. New publications of State aid decisions on the internet and in the Official Journal are listed in the Competition Weekly e-News.

"This €126 million scheme will allow Romania to reduce bottlenecks created by the sudden surge in goods arriving in the Danube and Black Sea coast ports. The aid will support port operators to process and store queuing goods, thereby reducing the blockade caused by Russia’s war against Ukraine. This will contribute to the EU Solidarity Lanes action plan without unduly distorting competition in the Single Market."

-Margrethe Vestager, Executive Vice-President in charge of competition policy

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_24_104

Link Posted: 1/12/2024 4:15:36 PM EDT
[#42]
Here is  a visual of what I mean, at 2:43. Actually anything in that vid would be fair game from any angle.

This by the way is Shaman, the epitome of modern military pop-culture in RF.
The nazi look is intentional. Armband, blond, straight from a 1930's propaganda film.  Not much talent but he is the chosen leader in the field.


Link Posted: 1/12/2024 4:41:25 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ad_nauseam:
That is the pragmatic view. And you right. That's target number 2.
I was hoping to make a symbolic statement. Take this down. Every single person in the country knows what it is and what it represents.  It would send a message for sure. Moscow itself would not be what it is without the clock.

Kremlin clock

This war is never going to end otherwise. Just realize it's a 2 or 5 or 10 year engagement. Even the change of power there does not mean anything, maybe another hardliner will come to power after Putin.
View Quote

I think the fear of this is what keeps Biden from sending sufficient aid to Ukraine. The DC Establishment is pants-wetting petrified of somebody worse that Putin, or even a Yugoslavia-style breakup of the Russian Federation with regional governors becoming feudal warlords (as befits their culture). Think of all the really insane stuff Medvedev has spouted off. Medvedev was once warming the chair for Putin, and remains head of their national security council. Putin really is a mild dictator compared to Medvedev.

But again, I think fear of change is worse than change itself. Change can be managed, and change carries opportunities.
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 4:57:12 PM EDT
[#44]
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Originally Posted By ad_nauseam:


We got to put North Korea here as well and China. They are all friends you know.  While at it, why not include Taiwan? Can't exclude them.  They are critical to electronics used in Ukraine. Let's discuss all military engagements here in this very thread.
In fact I have an idea. Let's just have one thread for all military topics, past and present. This one. Obstinacy is a virtue.  

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IMO almost all of our world conflicts are promoted, encouraged, instigated and financed by the Russia/China/Iran/North Korean alliance. That would include Venezuela's recent saber rattling and most of what happens in Africa. To ignore the big picture, is to ignore the fact that these actors want to foist their disgusting world view on us all.
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 5:02:18 PM EDT
[#45]
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Originally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly:


True.  To say that the 'Russian War of War" began with Berlin is to ignore a LOT of Russian/Eastern European history going back as far as the 900's AD
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I wasn't saying it was where Russia starting being an asshole. I was saying the Rape of Berlin was a good start to go down the rabbit hole of Russia being an asshole.
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 5:22:56 PM EDT
[#46]
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Originally Posted By RockNwood:

Rising oil prices directly benefits Russia and Iran.


View Quote


As well as every other oil producing nation.

If we want to, and someday we will, 100% of Iranian and Russian oil exports will get deep sixed.
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 5:23:38 PM EDT
[#47]
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:

I think the fear of this is what keeps Biden from sending sufficient aid to Ukraine. The DC Establishment is pants-wetting petrified of somebody worse that Putin, or even a Yugoslavia-style breakup of the Russian Federation with regional governors becoming feudal warlords (as befits their culture). Think of all the really insane stuff Medvedev has spouted off. Medvedev was once warming the chair for Putin, and remains head of their national security council. Putin really is a mild dictator compared to Medvedev.

But again, I think fear of change is worse than change itself. Change can be managed, and change carries opportunities.
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:
Originally Posted By ad_nauseam:
That is the pragmatic view. And you right. That's target number 2.
I was hoping to make a symbolic statement. Take this down. Every single person in the country knows what it is and what it represents.  It would send a message for sure. Moscow itself would not be what it is without the clock.

Kremlin clock

This war is never going to end otherwise. Just realize it's a 2 or 5 or 10 year engagement. Even the change of power there does not mean anything, maybe another hardliner will come to power after Putin.

I think the fear of this is what keeps Biden from sending sufficient aid to Ukraine. The DC Establishment is pants-wetting petrified of somebody worse that Putin, or even a Yugoslavia-style breakup of the Russian Federation with regional governors becoming feudal warlords (as befits their culture). Think of all the really insane stuff Medvedev has spouted off. Medvedev was once warming the chair for Putin, and remains head of their national security council. Putin really is a mild dictator compared to Medvedev.

But again, I think fear of change is worse than change itself. Change can be managed, and change carries opportunities.

This is tangentially related, but this is something that drives me nuts when people act like the US is the same as Russia and China. Yes, the US did nasty things in our past, such as ethnic cleansing, engaging in imperialism, slavery, etc. No one is denying that. Yet, most Americans today are taught that this behavior was wrong, and a blight on our history. However, Russia and China are still actively engaging in that behavior, and there are no meaningful forces in their societies that stand to stop that behavior. The only meaningful opposition to Putin comes from people who think he hasn't gone far enough with his imperialism and ethnic cleansing. There is no comparison between the US and Putin's Russia. None.
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 5:35:50 PM EDT
[#48]
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Originally Posted By ad_nauseam:



He doesn't. The public would notice the Kremlin tower gone. It stood there for 800 years or such. Well, the original Kremlin was wood, in 1200AD, not sure when they built the brick variant but the Kremlin tower is highly symbolic, for example every New Year entails watching that clock strike 12. It's like their Times Square variant.  I think with the clock gone they would realize Ukrops are serious and the next target will be something other than the Kremlin towers.
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Originally Posted By ad_nauseam:
Originally Posted By RockNwood:

Excellent point. Putin is immune to public option and he doesn’t care that much about symbolism except how it can be used against his enemies.

The best way to hurt Putin and Russia is the pocketbook and that means gas and oil production and transport.





He doesn't. The public would notice the Kremlin tower gone. It stood there for 800 years or such. Well, the original Kremlin was wood, in 1200AD, not sure when they built the brick variant but the Kremlin tower is highly symbolic, for example every New Year entails watching that clock strike 12. It's like their Times Square variant.  I think with the clock gone they would realize Ukrops are serious and the next target will be something other than the Kremlin towers.


What needs gone is Putin. A 3:00 a.m. cruise missile in his bedroom window would be more symbolic than the loss of a clock.
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 5:44:46 PM EDT
[#49]
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Originally Posted By ad_nauseam:

Here is  a visual of what I mean, at 2:43. Actually anything in that vid would be fair game from any angle.

This by the way is Shaman, the epitome of modern military pop-culture in RF.
The nazi look is intentional. Armband, blond, straight from a 1930's propaganda film.  Not much talent but he is the chosen leader in the field.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXreSAXf1V8
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Where are America's patriotic videos? The Russian people are more united than we are, that means something when push comes to shove. I grew up during the 1960's race riots and Vietnam War protests. I have never seen America more divided than it is now.
Link Posted: 1/12/2024 5:49:31 PM EDT
[#50]
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OFFICIAL Russo-Ukrainian War (Page 5270 of 5591)
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