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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:21:35 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russian logistics is a joke. A humiliating joke for them. Those idiot purchased cheap Chinese tires that are rotted and go flat over smooth terrain. Their entire campaign should be termed "IFR" for "I follow roads" because apparently their armored units can't even operate that well over the muddy field of Ukraine. The Russians picked the worse possible time to launch their invasion, apparently they don't weather reports in Russia. I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed this. Rasputitsa is the great equalizer. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:21:40 PM EDT
[#2]
I think we should supply Ukraine with jets, surface to air missiles and more, then train them how to use it if needed.
The Soviets did the same thing to us in Vietnam, they sent jets and trained the NV on how to use them, they also sent advisors to NV and trained them to use surface to air missiles. No telling the number of US planes shot down in Vietnam from Russian surface to air missiles and the men killed or captured. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:21:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Does either Blackwater or Executive Outcomes have an aviation division?
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:23:08 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does either Blackwater or Executive Outcomes have an aviation division? Pretty sure both of those outfits have been shut down or renamed at least. In either case their aviation assets wouldn't last long in this fight. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:26:16 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does either Blackwater or Executive Outcomes have an aviation division? After Yemen not so much. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:27:05 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the question that makes people swallow hard. High tech jets require sophisticated airport and maintenance facilities. Any airfield not in Ukraine that is used for takeoffs and landings becomes subject to attack for not remaining neutral. So, to your question--just because the Ukrainians might get fighter planes now--where in the blue blazes do they take off from? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Does Ukraine have a relatively safe airbase still open to refuel and rearm these? That's the question that makes people swallow hard. High tech jets require sophisticated airport and maintenance facilities. Any airfield not in Ukraine that is used for takeoffs and landings becomes subject to attack for not remaining neutral. So, to your question--just because the Ukrainians might get fighter planes now--where in the blue blazes do they take off from? I figure Poland, Germany, and USA are no longer neutral as soon as those planes enter Ukrainian airspace. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:29:34 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It doesn't really matter how "good" the MiG-29s are or aren't... the Ukrainian pilots and maintainers are already trained on them, so they're the only aircraft that could do them much good right now. This is a good move for everyone (except the Russians... and fuck those guys anyway). No Su 27s laying around NATO? |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:30:32 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do they have pilots? Changing the avionics from NATO to whatever Ukraine uses is another. And xiden taking possession of the aircraft and then giving them to Ukraine, assuming they have operational airfields for them, is going to cause even more blustering from Putin. I wonder if Putin is going to go batshit crazy and retaliate with massive cyber warfare or some more traditional aggression. And if he really does go off his rocker will the Russian military or his political foes depose him? ETA And does Ukraine have missiles to arm the planes? |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:30:58 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why? The money would have just been siphoned off by the Dems.  TC Clarifying my statement - If we were concerned about UKR, we should've 8 years ago ... |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:33:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If Russia is really having these problems taking Ukraine that once they take Ukraine and go for Poland. Wouldn't Poland just be giving them the anchor shot?  Russia is not touching Poland. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:36:05 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the question that makes people swallow hard. High tech jets require sophisticated airport and maintenance facilities. Any airfield not in Ukraine that is used for takeoffs and landings becomes subject to attack for not remaining neutral. So, to your question--just because the Ukrainians might get fighter planes now--where in the blue blazes do they take off from? If memory serves, they can take off from a wheat field. The Soviets designed their aircraft to fly from “unimproved” air bases. Also, from what I’ve read the MiG-29 is a very good plane. It would suffer badly against F/A-18s (16s, 35s) with AWACS, because it’s not so great in long distance engagements, but in knife-fighting range it’s good. I don’t know how it stacks up against the latest MiG or Sukhoi models though. I hope that the Ukrainians can beat the Russians soon, and as soon as the war is over the people of both countries DELETE FUCKING EVERYTHING when it comes to the corrupt cunts in their governments. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:39:05 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well Poland dropping them off at Ramstein with no backfill. Its up to US and UKRAINE to get them. Poland treading very lightly it seems Yup. Poland is putting up a front but wants the actual heat off their hands. No one is going to do shit but send some rockets and ammo. No jets will make it to Ukraine. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:39:59 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No F35 sweeping the skies clean no care I dont think they will have time to get pilots and crewed trained on them in time |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:40:02 PM EDT
[#14]
Yay one step closer to nuclear Armageddon
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:40:34 PM EDT
[#15]
They'll be needing some backup.
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:43:17 PM EDT
[#16]
Putin will do what Putin will do. If it's not the Mig transfer that pushes him, it will be something else. Just hope my potassium iodine order arrives soon.
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:43:42 PM EDT
[#17]
Whoa. Way late on that response.
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:45:26 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Poland isn’t Ukraine. They will fuck the Russians up. This. Existing NATO forces and supplies in Europe could push Russia's shit in. Too bad for canned sunshine though... |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:47:58 PM EDT
[#19]
I must be missing something. Russia is obviously a Superpower and I wouldn't believe to take them lightly. Would they as a super power at war want to achieve air superiority? I would think that some out dated migs that Poland transfers to Ukraine would be dinner and easy targets for some of Russia's newer fleet?
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:51:23 PM EDT
[#20]
Is Poland/NATO supply missiles for the MiGs too, or does UKR already have a supply of them? Anybody heard?
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:52:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: ...if the US will go ahead and transfer them to Ukraine. Poland Has Made Available All Its MiG-29 Jets For US To Transfer To Ukraine In the latest major development in what's become a "huge operation" mounted by individual NATO member states to assist Ukraine's military, Poland has announced it is ready to transfer all of its Russian-made MIG-29 jets to the Rammstein Air Base in Germany. A statement posted Tuesday to its Ministry of Foreign Affairs website indicated the jets will be placed "at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America" which in turn is expected to send them to Ukraine, after President Zelesnky has issued a series of urgent appeals for fighter planes. "The authorities of the Republic of Poland, after consultations between the President and the Government, are ready to deploy – immediately and free of charge – all their MIG-29 jets to the Rammstein Air Base and place them at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America," it said. And here's where it gets sporty: "Poland is not in a state of war with Russia, but it is not an impartial country, because it supports Ukraine as the victim of aggression. It considers, however, that all military matters must be a decision of Nato as a whole." Already many NATO nations have been supplying Ukraine with anti-tank and anti-air should fired missiles, but if a large-scale movement to get more fighter jets to Kiev gains momentum, this will certainly mark a huge escalation, and the Kremlin has recently warned it could attack such provocative military supplies coming from the West. Is this the straw that breaks the camel's back and causes Putin to widen the war to Poland and/or NATO? Does he have the guts to call this enough to start World War III? |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:56:03 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was kind of my take. Poland thought of a clever way to get NATO planes while it offloads Soviet Commie Trash Plane Garbage. (That last part is just me being snarky; I don't know if MiG's are quality planes or not.  )Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well Poland dropping them off at Ramstein with no backfill. Its up to US and UKRAINE to get them. Poland treading very lightly it seems That was kind of my take. Poland thought of a clever way to get NATO planes while it offloads Soviet Commie Trash Plane Garbage. (That last part is just me being snarky; I don't know if MiG's are quality planes or not. )Well, the Ukrainian pilots and GCs are flying Mig-29s, so it kinda makes sense to ship them. Better than trying to get familiar with a new plane in the middle of a fight. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:57:27 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am not saying these will not be helpful, but I believe it would be MORE helpful to give Ukraine more S-300s (particularly the missiles to replace the ones they've already expended) and more MANPADS. I don't know whether the Ukrainian pilots are going to be up-to-date on the updated avionics of the MIG29s from Poland, those are not the same as the MIGs that the Ukrainians were flying. Maintenance could be an issue as well, since I don't know how up-to-date on those updated avionics the Ukrainian ground crews are either. Plus, let's not forget that the Ukrainian pilots aren't very good at least not by U.S. standards. They did NOT have that many flight hours before the war in Ukraine broke out and I don't think Ukraine has flight simulators for their pilots to train on so they didn't get a lot of the training that our pilots do on air-to-air combat. In short, don't think that the Ukraine is now going to lay waste to Russia with these planes to the level that U.S. pilots would do. I guess we'll also see how things go with Russia over this one. When the Russians see those MIGs on their S-400 radars coming in from over the Polish border are they going to think that "NATO has entered the chat?" What happens if those aircraft get blown out of the sky while still over Polish territory by a Russian S-400 missile? Is that then an Article 5 act of war? Would have been better for everyone and cheaper to just ship more S-300 missiles via rail or truck into Ukraine and more MANPADs. The Ukrainians already know how to use those systems and it wouldn't risk any escalation in the conflict by NATO. I think this is another dumb idea by our idiot leader class, but that's me. I think it's being done more for "show" than for practical purposes. Awesome how you know better than the Ukrainians what they need, and what they already have. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 5:58:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for the link. It was a good read. I thought so. I'm certainly in no position to make any kind of decision about how right any of his conclusions might be, but it's definitely interesting. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 6:00:23 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I must be missing something. Russia is obviously a Superpower and I wouldn't believe to take them lightly. Would they as a super power at war want to achieve air superiority? I would think that some out dated migs that Poland transfers to Ukraine would be dinner and easy targets for some of Russia's newer fleet? Russian jets don't even have GPS. People make jokes about the AK belonging in a trash can. But AKs and Grads are about the only decent thing they've brought to the table. Their tanks and armored vehicles don't have GPS either and they gave their troops maps as the primary means of navigation. Almost all their radio communications is being done on Baofengs. The same cheap units you can buy on Amazon for 25 bucks and the whole world can hear everything they do and plan. Russia's super power is making things that should be immediately thrown away. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 6:03:23 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If memory serves, they can take off from a wheat field. The Soviets designed their aircraft to fly from “unimproved” air bases. Also, from what I’ve read the MiG-29 is a very good plane. It would suffer badly against F/A-18s (16s, 35s) with AWACS, because it’s not so great in long distance engagements, but in knife-fighting range it’s good. I don’t know how it stacks up against the latest MiG or Sukhoi models though. I hope that the Ukrainians can beat the Russians soon, and as soon as the war is over the people of both countries DELETE FUCKING EVERYTHING when it comes to the corrupt cunts in their governments. There is a misconception about the off runway use of Soviet fighters. They would have been dispersed along highways rather than airports and with poor quality pavement/concrete spalling was always a problem hence need for FOD screens,they weren’t really going to be taking off from fields. Next time I’m west of here will take pictures of the closest area I know that remains. They were just widened area of highway with some dispersal areas. The US has flown A-10s out of this one a few times.  Attached FileI absolutely disagree about deleting everything regarding the UA government,Zelensky has been phenomenal and has worked very much to eliminate problems. I think he’s going to want to have some kind of a normal life again after this though,the past 2 weeks have aged him 10 years already. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 6:04:18 PM EDT
[#27]
Polish MiG 29 porn. Good luck in your new home pretty birds.
     
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Posted: 3/8/2022 6:06:26 PM EDT
[#28]
But do they have enough qualified pilots to fly them?
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Posted: 3/8/2022 6:10:43 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 3/8/2022 6:11:59 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Awesome how you know better than the Ukrainians what they need, and what they already have. If the Ukrainian leadership knew what they needed they wouldn't have waited until just two days before the Russian invasion to call up their reservists. Sorry, Ukrainians military and political leaders don't know what they don't know and are just lucky the Russians are the same. Anyone can look up Ukrainian military equipment numbers online, must be dozens of videos on it all public open source stuff. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 6:15:35 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Group buy on MiG's?? Hell yes 
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Posted: 3/8/2022 6:16:25 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pilots are one factor. Changing the avionics from NATO to whatever Ukraine uses is another. And xiden taking possession of the aircraft and then giving them to Ukraine, assuming they have operational airfields for them, is going to cause even more blustering from Putin. I wonder if Putin is going to go batshit crazy and retaliate with massive cyber warfare or some more traditional aggression. And if he really does go off his rocker will the Russian military or his political foes depose him? ETA And does Ukraine have missiles to arm the planes? Well, time to find out of the billions we've spent on the NSA is useful for anything other than spying on Americans. If Putin wants to get into cyber warfare than it's time for the U.S. to roll up its sleeves and remind Russia that we invented the internet. I don't think we let the Russians intimidate us with threat of cyber attacks. We threaten them right back if they do. I do worry about the Russians cutting our undersea internet cables, but that's just more reason why we need more satellite internet like Elon's Starlink. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 6:16:35 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lets get the party started |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 6:18:16 PM EDT
[#34]
How far into Russia could these planes strike?
Because this isn't about defense anymore. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 6:18:43 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can they though? Or will Poland continue to buy more F35s? |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 6:18:59 PM EDT
[#36]
Are the Poles getting a one for one trade of Mig 29s for F-16s?
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Posted: 3/8/2022 6:21:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think we should supply Ukraine with jets, surface to air missiles and more, then train them how to use it if needed. The Soviets did the same thing to us in Vietnam, they sent jets and trained the NV on how to use them, they also sent advisors to NV and trained them to use surface to air missiles. No telling the number of US planes shot down in Vietnam from Russian surface to air missiles and the men killed or captured. Have Israel give it up and spread some of the wealth we have bestowed upon them. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 6:27:23 PM EDT
[#38]
Not going to happen !
The US is not dumb enough (even with Biden admin) to do that. It would be a direct overt action. Might as well just say fuck it and declare war. It’s bullshit back door diplomacy in an attempt to get other NATO nations into stepping into this mess.. and letting them do the fighting for them. Direct military assistance of a non defensive nature violates the previous pact Russia had with the Ukraine. It will be used as provocation and validation by Russia to go all in. and..it says “ready to be transferred” as a back door offering. Not the transfer is approved ! |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 6:29:13 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How far into Russia could these planes strike? Because this isn't about defense anymore. A Russian 911 would flick the wrong switch. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 6:32:17 PM EDT
[#40]
What gets me is, IF when this whole mess started Biden had said we was going to push for NATO involvement, all of GD and much of the country would have been all "not my circus, not my monkeys, stay out of starting WWIII". But since it's not something that Biden wanted to do from the get-go, the "nature of the beast" of politics has pushed us here now.
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Posted: 3/8/2022 6:46:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I actually have not. I thought jet fighter logistics was jet fighter logistics no matter whose jets they are. I have always thought any jet aircraft had to be treated like a purebred race horse. MiG 29s are mules. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 6:55:25 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a cartel war and we are the luciferian globalists led by Gates,Soros,Fauci,Obama,Clinton,Biden,Bush,Romney, Bezos,Zuckerberg,Klaus Schwab, determined to destroy America and build back better...aka a globalist vassal state. Putin is the other side of the same coin...build back better after you destroy what is... The only way to win is not to play. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A war is nothing more than the transfer of massive quantities of wealth from one party to another. Wars have always been fights for resources. Money is the easiest resource to move around. It's a cartel war and we are the luciferian globalists led by Gates,Soros,Fauci,Obama,Clinton,Biden,Bush,Romney, Bezos,Zuckerberg,Klaus Schwab, determined to destroy America and build back better...aka a globalist vassal state. Putin is the other side of the same coin...build back better after you destroy what is... The only way to win is not to play.  |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 6:55:35 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does Ukraine have a relatively safe airbase still open to refuel and rearm these? This is my question as well, but will Russia air power be be waiting to engage the moment they come into Ukrainian air space or what Putin calls his own. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 6:58:25 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So technically, they are not giving them to Ukraine, they are giving them to us to give to Ukraine, right? 30 or so. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 7:07:09 PM EDT
[#45]
Our faggot government just pussied out.No jets for Ukraine.
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Posted: 3/8/2022 7:11:04 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Our faggot government just pussied out.No jets for Ukraine. You're fuckin kidding |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 7:12:52 PM EDT
[#47]
US "Surprised", Wasn't Pre-Consulted On Poland's Announcement Of Jets For Ukraine
This level of huge contradiction among allies on such a big development is just a bit awkward and even embarrassing. The Biden administration is saying it was caught completely by "surprise" at Poland's declaration hours ago that it would send all its Russian-produced MiG-29 jets to Ramstein Air Base in Germany for the United States to be able to transfer them to Ukraine. While the possible plan was reportedly under consideration for days, it doesn't appear the White House was notified of Warsaw's final decision prior to the announcement being declared as a 'done deal' via the Polish Ministry of Foreign Affairs website. Apparently for Washington, there was no done deal at all. "Poland's decision to put all its MIG-29 jets at the disposal of the United States was not pre-consulted with Washington," State Department Undersecretary Victoria Nuland said Tuesday in the wake of Poland's statement. And more: AND HERE'S WHAT I'VE BEEN WONDERING: Elsewhere during her Senate testimony remarks, Nuland said that the US is currently considering placing Patriot missile batteries in Poland. What about possibly supplying Patriots to Ukraine? Any difference between doing that and sending Javelins? Or do Patriot batteries require American crews to run them? Is it a complicated weapons system that a Ukrainian won't pick up with OJT? |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 7:14:05 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It doesn't really matter how "good" the MiG-29s are or aren't... the Ukrainian pilots and maintainers are already trained on them, so they're the only aircraft that could do them much good right now. This is a good move for everyone (except the Russians... and fuck those guys anyway). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That was kind of my take. Poland thought of a clever way to get NATO planes while it offloads Soviet Commie Trash Plane Garbage. (That last part is just me being snarky; I don't know if MiG's are quality planes or not. )It doesn't really matter how "good" the MiG-29s are or aren't... the Ukrainian pilots and maintainers are already trained on them, so they're the only aircraft that could do them much good right now. This is a good move for everyone (except the Russians... and fuck those guys anyway). Exactly. They are all MIG-29As, which are essentially the not so good base models. Even compared to the 1980s era MIG-29S, it is a notable step down. But Ukraine can actually use them. Bulgaria and some other countries have MIG-29s and Su-25s that they were looking to donate. Replenishing their air force will give Ukraine a massive advantage even if they are dated. Giving more abilities to attack from the air and fight back against attack helis/planes is a great help. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 7:18:20 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I figure Poland, Germany, and USA are no longer neutral as soon as those planes enter Ukrainian airspace. We've already sent Ukraine hundreds of javelins and stingers. Adding a few migs doesn't change our status. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 7:26:44 PM EDT
[#50]
Syncical
But Pigs. will fly before these MIGs. |
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