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Posted: 8/9/2023 7:17:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rudukai13: We’ll have to agree to disagree. Missilegeek has a point though, this is a thread about pistol RDS, not compensators. I’ll accept my 20 lashes for the temporary hijack and return to the original topic You can agree to ignore that no less energy is being applied to the slide when a comp is in play... |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 8/9/2023 7:27:18 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BMSMB: You can agree to ignore that no less energy is being applied to the slide when a comp is in play...  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/9/2023 8:13:31 PM EDT
[#3]
Can we all agree that Grace Optics “topless” pistol optic sucks?
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VA, USA
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Posted: 8/9/2023 8:59:15 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Dear god what sins have I committed and what have I done to initiate the unleashing of physics nerds on this thread? /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/shame-295.png  Wonder how long it’ll be before they bicker over the different effects of a comp vs a brake. |
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Posted: 8/9/2023 9:08:18 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rb889: Wonder how long it’ll be before they bicker over the different effects of a comp vs a brake. There's nothing to argue about, unless he thinks the brake steals energy under the threat of breaking legs. |
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Posted: 8/9/2023 10:01:41 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BMSMB: You can agree to ignore that no less energy is being applied to the slide when a comp is in play... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BMSMB: Originally Posted By Rudukai13: We’ll have to agree to disagree. Missilegeek has a point though, this is a thread about pistol RDS, not compensators. I’ll accept my 20 lashes for the temporary hijack and return to the original topic You can agree to ignore that no less energy is being applied to the slide when a comp is in play... I don’t believe I’m wrong, but I’m certainly open to the possibility that that’s the case. I’m happy to continue the discussion elsewhere so we can figure out what the answer actually is, but I’d prefer not to derail this thread from the original subject any further. If you’d like to DM me or @ me in a new thread (perhaps in Team so we could avoid some of the usual GD shenanigans?) I’ll be more than happy to continue the conversation. I would genuinely be interested in figuring out what the correct answer is and if I’m wrong I’ll have no issues publicly admitting so |
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Posted: 8/9/2023 10:07:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BMSMB]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rudukai13: I don’t believe I’m wrong, but I’m certainly open to the possibility that that’s the case. I’m happy to continue the discussion elsewhere so we can figure out what the answer actually is, but I’d prefer not to derail this thread from the original subject any further. If you’d like to DM me or @ me in a new thread (perhaps in Team so we could avoid some of the usual GD shenanigans?) I’ll be more than happy to continue the conversation. I would genuinely be interested in figuring out what the correct answer is and if I’m wrong I’ll have no issues publicly admitting so You can not believe physics all you want. This thread has been 75% off topic and tangents and I don't care to go to a new thread to explain opposing forces. |
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Posted: 8/9/2023 10:14:35 PM EDT
[#8]
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 8/9/2023 10:59:44 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BMSMB: Do you want me to find the clip where Stoeger talks about that happening with an SRO? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BMSMB: Originally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: Do u want me to post the gif where the lens flew out and he ignored it Do you want me to find the clip where Stoeger talks about that happening with an SRO? Stoeger isn't one I can take seriously. He probably cannot even change the battery. |
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Posted: 8/9/2023 11:02:20 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sierra-def: Stoeger isn't one I can take seriously. He probably cannot even change the battery. When it comes to handguns and their accessories... I doubt there are many people in this world that have more exposure than he does. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 8/9/2023 11:03:40 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BMSMB: Less reciprocating mass = easier to return to target Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BMSMB: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: I see. Not to derail or go off on a rant, but why do so many companies add unnecessary slide cuts? I don't want extra holes that just let the dirt in TYVM. Less reciprocating mass = easier to return to target bUt thAt hIgh bOrE AxIs! |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 8/9/2023 11:04:26 PM EDT
[#12]
As someone with a good bit of time getting Browning actions to work with comps and brakes I think both of them are fairly incorrect in some ways and both have valid points.
It's is physics and statics and dynamics. That's just from what I've read I've the last page or so. One of these days I'll get around to cutting my slide for an optic. |
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Posted: 8/9/2023 11:08:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Rudukai13]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BMSMB: You can not believe physics all you want. This thread has been 75% off topic and tangents and I don't care to go to a new thread to explain opposing forces. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BMSMB: Originally Posted By Rudukai13: I don’t believe I’m wrong, but I’m certainly open to the possibility that that’s the case. I’m happy to continue the discussion elsewhere so we can figure out what the answer actually is, but I’d prefer not to derail this thread from the original subject any further. If you’d like to DM me or @ me in a new thread (perhaps in Team so we could avoid some of the usual GD shenanigans?) I’ll be more than happy to continue the conversation. I would genuinely be interested in figuring out what the correct answer is and if I’m wrong I’ll have no issues publicly admitting so You can not believe physics all you want. This thread has been 75% off topic and tangents and I don't care to go to a new thread to explain opposing forces. I’m trying to better understand the physics involved in good faith. This topic is of some interest to me because this is an issue I actually ran into in practice when I built a few comped pistols in previous years. When I installed extended and threaded barrels into the pistols and shot light 115gr target loads through them with just the threaded barrels, they ran perfectly reliably with normal ejection. After I installed compensators, they began exhibiting issues with the same light loads to include weak ejection or outright failures to fully eject. Based on the research I did and the conversations I had at the time, my understanding was that the reason for the cycling issues was because the compensators leech some portion of the energy required to properly cycle the gun, with the amount of energy directly proportional to the number/size of the ports present in the compensators. What you’re saying though is that the energy that the compensators utilized was taken from the expanding gas that was otherwise wasted when it was ejected out of the front of the un-compensated barrel, and not any part that would normally be directed rearward on the breach face to cycle the pistol? What I’m not understanding is why that would then induce malfunctions in the pistol if the rearward-directed energy from the fired round wasn’t somehow being reduced by the addition of the compensator? ETA the reliability issues were resolved by swapping to lighter recoil springs and running hotter ammo, specifically 124gr +P loads |
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Posted: 8/9/2023 11:09:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Deerhurst: As someone with a good bit of time getting Browning actions to work with comps and brakes I think both of them are fairly incorrect in some ways and both have valid points. It's is physics and statics and dynamics. That's just from what I've read I've the last page or so. One of these days I'll get around to cutting my slide for an optic. Feel free to point out what I've said that is not true |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 8/9/2023 11:14:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BMSMB: When it comes to handguns and their accessories... I doubt there are many people in this world that have more exposure than he does. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BMSMB: Originally Posted By sierra-def: Stoeger isn't one I can take seriously. He probably cannot even change the battery. When it comes to handguns and their accessories... I doubt there are many people in this world that have more exposure than he does. Yet he doesn't understand how shit works? Exposure is one thing but he cannot even clean his own Glock? |
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Posted: 8/9/2023 11:16:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BMSMB]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rudukai13: I’m trying to better understand the physics involved in good faith. This topic is of some interest to me because this is an issue I actually ran into in practice when I built a few comped pistols in previous years. When I installed extended and threaded barrels into the pistols and shot light 115gr target loads through them with just the threaded barrels, they ran perfectly reliably with normal ejection. After I installed compensators, they began exhibiting issues with the same light loads to include weak ejection or outright failures to fully eject. Based on the research I did and the conversations I had at the time, my understanding was that the reason for the cycling issues was because the compensators leech some portion of the energy required to properly cycle the gun, with the amount of energy directly proportional to the number/size of the ports present in the compensators. What you’re saying though is that the energy that the compensators utilized was taken from the expanding gas that was otherwise wasted when it was ejected out of the front of the un-compensated barrel, and not any part that would normally be directed rearward on the breach face to cycle the pistol? What I’m not understanding is why that would then induce malfunctions in the pistol if the rearward-directed energy from the fired round wasn’t somehow being reduced by the addition of the compensator? For a threaded on comp, the gas that is being used has already reached a point where it would normally be in free space and spreading out. The comp is just taking that spread, and directing it into specific directions. One of the other posters has said that the weight is not significant enough to cause failures on its own, but the added weight will still need to be accounted for in terms of energy. If the comp is directing the gas upwards, then you're going to have downward force being applied at the end of your barrel. Go grab a pencil and put it in the end of your barrel, apply some downward pressure, and try and pull the slide back. It's going to be more difficult. The comp isn't sucking up any of the energy that would normally go to the slide, it's making it harder to cycle the slide, thus requiring more energy. |
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Posted: 8/9/2023 11:16:55 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sierra-def: Yet he doesn't understand how shit works? Exposure is one thing but he cannot even clean his own Glock? The more you shoot, the less you clean |
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Posted: 8/9/2023 11:27:59 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BMSMB: For a threaded on comp, the gas that is being used has already reached a point where it would normally be in free space and spreading out. The comp is just taking that spread, and directing it into specific directions. One of the other posters has said that the weight is not significant enough to cause failures on its own, but the added weight will still need to be accounted for in terms of energy. If the comp is directing the gas upwards, then you're going to have downward pressure being applied at the end of your barrel. Go grab a pencil and put it in the end of your barrel, apply some downward pressure, and try and pull the slide back. It's going to be more difficult. The comp isn't sucking up any of the energy that would normally go to the slide, it's making it harder to cycle the slide, thus requiring more energy. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BMSMB: Originally Posted By Rudukai13: I’m trying to better understand the physics involved in good faith. This topic is of some interest to me because this is an issue I actually ran into in practice when I built a few comped pistols in previous years. When I installed extended and threaded barrels into the pistols and shot light 115gr target loads through them with just the threaded barrels, they ran perfectly reliably with normal ejection. After I installed compensators, they began exhibiting issues with the same light loads to include weak ejection or outright failures to fully eject. Based on the research I did and the conversations I had at the time, my understanding was that the reason for the cycling issues was because the compensators leech some portion of the energy required to properly cycle the gun, with the amount of energy directly proportional to the number/size of the ports present in the compensators. What you’re saying though is that the energy that the compensators utilized was taken from the expanding gas that was otherwise wasted when it was ejected out of the front of the un-compensated barrel, and not any part that would normally be directed rearward on the breach face to cycle the pistol? What I’m not understanding is why that would then induce malfunctions in the pistol if the rearward-directed energy from the fired round wasn’t somehow being reduced by the addition of the compensator? For a threaded on comp, the gas that is being used has already reached a point where it would normally be in free space and spreading out. The comp is just taking that spread, and directing it into specific directions. One of the other posters has said that the weight is not significant enough to cause failures on its own, but the added weight will still need to be accounted for in terms of energy. If the comp is directing the gas upwards, then you're going to have downward pressure being applied at the end of your barrel. Go grab a pencil and put it in the end of your barrel, apply some downward pressure, and try and pull the slide back. It's going to be more difficult. The comp isn't sucking up any of the energy that would normally go to the slide, it's making it harder to cycle the slide, thus requiring more energy. Ok I follow and that makes sense to me. What’s coming to mind then is threaded compensators on pistols with non-tilting barrel actions - I don’t have the experience with them to know what the answer is, but does a threaded barrel Beretta M9 for example with an added compensator exhibit the same reliability issues with light target loads as a Browning-style tilting locked breach action? |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 8/9/2023 11:33:05 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BMSMB: The more you shoot, the less you clean Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BMSMB: Originally Posted By sierra-def: Yet he doesn't understand how shit works? Exposure is one thing but he cannot even clean his own Glock? The more you shoot, the less you clean Because he doesn't know how too take his Glock apart. |
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Posted: 8/9/2023 11:38:27 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rudukai13: Ok I follow and that makes sense to me. What’s coming to mind then is threaded compensators on pistols with non-tilting barrel actions - I don’t have the experience with them to know what the answer is, but does a threaded barrel Beretta M9 for example with an added compensator exhibit the same reliability issues with light target loads as a Browning-style tilting locked breach action? I run a CZ, I don't know what type that is, but it doesn't really tilt like a glock does. The downward force on the end of the barrel still made racking the slide much harder. Looking at a clip of an m9, it doesn't look like the barrel tips at all, but downward pressure would still cause more friction between parts if not some alignment issues that would need overcome. If I had one, I'd play around with it to see if it could be replicated. |
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Posted: 8/9/2023 11:52:33 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BMSMB: I run a CZ, I don't know what type that is, but it doesn't really tilt like a glock does. The downward force on the end of the barrel still made racking the slide much harder. Looking at a clip of an m9, it doesn't look like the barrel tips at all, but downward pressure would still cause more friction between parts if not some alignment issues that would need overcome. If I had one, I'd play around with it to see if it could be replicated. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BMSMB: Originally Posted By Rudukai13: Ok I follow and that makes sense to me. What’s coming to mind then is threaded compensators on pistols with non-tilting barrel actions - I don’t have the experience with them to know what the answer is, but does a threaded barrel Beretta M9 for example with an added compensator exhibit the same reliability issues with light target loads as a Browning-style tilting locked breach action? I run a CZ, I don't know what type that is, but it doesn't really tilt like a glock does. The downward force on the end of the barrel still made racking the slide much harder. Looking at a clip of an m9, it doesn't look like the barrel tips at all, but downward pressure would still cause more friction between parts if not some alignment issues that would need overcome. If I had one, I'd play around with it to see if it could be replicated. CZs - I imagine a 75 or variant thereof? - utilize a linkless Browning-style tilting barrel action, same as a 1911 or a Glock. The angle of tilt is much more severe in most modern duty pistols which makes it more noticeable, but if you look at the cut-away slow-motion animations of various pistol designs you’ll see they all tilt in order to unlock:  How a gun (Colt M1911) works! (Animation) Jump to 2:05  3D Animation: How a Pistol works (CZ 75)  How a Glock Works Whereas the M9 is a linear short recoil system with no tilt necessary for unlocking the barrel:  Slow Mo Of Beretta 92 FS Firing (How It Works Beretta 92 FS Semi-Automatic Pistol) Jump to 0:35 |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 12:16:35 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rudukai13: CZs - I imagine a 75 or variant thereof? - utilize a linkless Browning-style tilting barrel action, same as a 1911 or a Glock. The angle of tilt is much more severe in most modern duty pistols which makes it more noticeable, but if you look at the cut-away slow-motion animations of various pistol designs you’ll see they all tilt in order to unlock:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjQrhDKDWFkJump to 2:05 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJz3JWJ-EfU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2RDitgCaD0Whereas the M9 is a linear short recoil system with no tilt necessary for unlocking the barrel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNgi2VGcM3kJump to 0:35 I'm not surprised the Beretta also has issues... from what I've heard they can't get an open gun to run reliably, hence JJ swapping out of open at the world shoot. Just looking at the action cycling, the best guess I have is friction and/or alignment issues. If I had one to play with I could try and narrow it down though. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 12:19:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SIASL]
[#23]
My .02¢ and as I understand it…
Comps added to barrels (muzzle mount) do not decrease recoil energy needed for cycling. They divert energy as a function but they do so only after all the gasses have already travelled down the full length of a given barrel length with no losses occurring. They do however add weight to the muzzle end of the barrel which requires energy for proper cycling due to the short action tilting barrel design (object sitting still - Newton’s Second Law of Motion). That additional weight at the extreme end of the barrel might upset the cycling if using weaker ammo, hence why pretty much everyone making them recommends using +P or better. Also, cycling issues may include running a stock or heavier recoil spring, or running an unmodified (not lightened) or heavier than stock slide (example: added MRDS),…OR…your gun may already have enough built in leeway you won’t have any issue(s) whatsoever. I’ve been very fortunate with my Glocks; they’ve ran flawlessly with comps and MRDS’s added with no cycling issues. Now, barrels with machined ports on the other hand do require bleeding off gasses to function as intended. Barrels with machined ports (must) divert some of the gasses, i .e., energy, as an intended function. In doing so, only a portion of the gasses pass completely down the entire length of the barrel. ETA: Think that’s why larger comps for short action pistols (tilting barrels) are generally machined out of aluminum while the micro comps can be made of steel (due to differences in metal weights). |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 1:29:02 AM EDT
[#24]
Originally Posted By BMSMB: I'm not surprised the Beretta also has issues... from what I've heard they can't get an open gun to run reliably, hence JJ swapping out of open at the world shoot. Just looking at the action cycling, the best guess I have is friction and/or alignment issues. If I had one to play with I could try and narrow it down though. I believe that was also KC Eusebio’s problem when he was shooting Open division for Glock. They were trying to put so much pressure/force through an action that wasn’t designed for it that it didn’t hold up to the rigors of Major PF Open division. Originally Posted By SIASL: My .02¢ and as I understand it… Comps added to barrels (muzzle mount) do not decrease recoil energy needed for cycling. They divert energy as a function but they do so only after all the gasses have already travelled down the full length of a given barrel length with no losses occurring. They do however add weight to the muzzle end of the barrel which requires energy for proper cycling due to the short action tilting barrel design (object sitting still - Newton’s Second Law of Motion). That additional weight at the extreme end of the barrel might upset the cycling if using weaker ammo, hence why pretty much everyone making them recommends using +P or better. Also, cycling issues may include running a stock or heavier recoil spring, or running an unmodified (not lightened) or heavier than stock slide (example: added MRDS),…OR…your gun may already have enough built in leeway you won’t have any issue(s) whatsoever. I’ve been very fortunate with my Glocks; they’ve ran flawlessly with comps and MRDS’s added with no cycling issues. Now, barrels with machined ports on the other hand do require bleeding off gasses to function as intended. Barrels with machined ports (must) divert some of the gasses, i .e., energy, as an intended function. In doing so, only a portion of the gasses pass completely down the entire length of the barrel. ETA: Think that’s why larger comps for short action pistols (tilting barrels) are generally machined out of aluminum while the micro comps can be made of steel (due to differences in metal weights). That all makes sense to me. The explanations provided by multiple members here are sufficiently convincing for me to change my understanding of what’s physically happening inside a comped gun. BMSMB, I apologize for providing incorrect information to start and for the initial frustration while I sorted out my confusion. I very much appreciate your willingness to continue discussing and helping me better understand the reality of the issue good sir  Hope the initial friction didn’t leave too bad a taste in your mouth.After all, us Holofags really ought to stick together 
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Posted: 8/10/2023 9:49:16 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rudukai13: I believe that was also KC Eusebio’s problem when he was shooting Open division for Glock. They were trying to put so much pressure/force through an action that wasn’t designed for it that it didn’t hold up to the rigors of Major PF Open division. That all makes sense to me. The explanations provided by multiple members here are sufficiently convincing for me to change my understanding of what’s physically happening inside a comped gun. BMSMB, I apologize for providing incorrect information to start and for the initial frustration while I sorted out my confusion. I very much appreciate your willingness to continue discussing and helping me better understand the reality of the issue good sir Hope the initial friction didn’t leave too bad a taste in your mouth.After all, us Holofags really ought to stick together no worries, I've been there before with other firearms related topics.
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Posted: 8/10/2023 12:07:59 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BMSMB: I'm not surprised the Beretta also has issues... from what I've heard they can't get an open gun to run reliably, hence JJ swapping out of open at the world shoot. Just looking at the action cycling, the best guess I have is friction and/or alignment issues. If I had one to play with I could try and narrow it down though. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 12:27:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By November5: The Beretta also has issues because the downward force applied by the comp is not the main factor having to be overcome. It's the braking effect that is pushing the reciprocating mass forward when the expanding gasses hit the front face of the comp. You could put a brake instead of a comp on a handgun and you'd still have the same problem. Whereas when you put ports, which only apply downward pressure, you tend to not have the problem. This is also why "comps" like the Sig Macro X Comp and 1911 bushing comps aren't very effective. They don't restrict forward movement of the gas. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By November5: Originally Posted By BMSMB: I'm not surprised the Beretta also has issues... from what I've heard they can't get an open gun to run reliably, hence JJ swapping out of open at the world shoot. Just looking at the action cycling, the best guess I have is friction and/or alignment issues. If I had one to play with I could try and narrow it down though. Bushing comps have always sucked, and that’s all Sig is making with their “integrally compensated” slides. It’s a stupid trend that needs to die |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 2:15:10 PM EDT
[#28]
What about red dots though?
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Posted: 8/10/2023 2:19:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RustedAce: What about red dots though? Covered. I think what we came up with is they’re not needed at spitting distance and it interferes with concealing because I buy my clothes from Baby Gap. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 2:48:20 PM EDT
[#30]
I’m fixin to red dot some ARF folks Saturday.
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Posted: 8/10/2023 6:45:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BMSMB]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RustedAce: I’m fixin to red dot some ARF folks Saturday. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/47980/IMG_2547-2914988.jpg You should have some quick draw duels at spittin distances and see if the dots come out on top (Mainly so people are getting welts from close up shots )
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Posted: 8/10/2023 7:26:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BMSMB: You should have some quick draw duels at spittin distances and see if the dots come out on top (Mainly so people are getting welts from close up shots )AGREED |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:29:20 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RustedAce: What about red dots though? I'll ask a tangential question. I kind of want to start fucking around with shooting some Carry Optics matches. Right now, all I have for pistols are some Glocks (17, 21, 34), along with some RMRs I haven't mounted on anything. The boring route would be to just get one of the Glocks milled and slap an RMR on it. I want an excuse to buy new shit, though. What would be a solid combo of gun / dot that isn't the same boring striker-fired gun I've been shooting for the last 15 years? It won't be for carry, and I'm willing to spend, say 1700 on the setup - the cost of the last gun I tried to buy but kept getting screwed on (they kept losing my order or something). |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:50:14 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CDPhD: I'll ask a tangential question. I kind of want to start fucking around with shooting some Carry Optics matches. Right now, all I have for pistols are some Glocks (17, 21, 34), along with some RMRs I haven't mounted on anything. The boring route would be to just get one of the Glocks milled and slap an RMR on it. I want an excuse to buy new shit, though. What would be a solid combo of gun / dot that isn't the same boring striker-fired gun I've been shooting for the last 15 years? It won't be for carry, and I'm willing to spend, say 1700 on the setup - the cost of the last gun I tried to buy but kept getting screwed on (they kept losing my order or something). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CDPhD: Originally Posted By RustedAce: What about red dots though? I'll ask a tangential question. I kind of want to start fucking around with shooting some Carry Optics matches. Right now, all I have for pistols are some Glocks (17, 21, 34), along with some RMRs I haven't mounted on anything. The boring route would be to just get one of the Glocks milled and slap an RMR on it. I want an excuse to buy new shit, though. What would be a solid combo of gun / dot that isn't the same boring striker-fired gun I've been shooting for the last 15 years? It won't be for carry, and I'm willing to spend, say 1700 on the setup - the cost of the last gun I tried to buy but kept getting screwed on (they kept losing my order or something). Honest question/serious suggestion, if you don’t want it for anything other than competition and you have a $1,700 budget why not get a SAO pistol and run in Limited Optics? Same 9mm Minor PF scoring. And it won’t be a boring striker fired pistol |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:50:39 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RustedAce: What about red dots though? Red dot everything |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:53:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rudukai13: Honest question/serious suggestion, if you don’t want it for anything other than competition and you have a $1,700 budget why not get a SAO pistol and run in Limited Optics? Same 9mm Minor PF scoring. And it won’t be a boring striker fired pistol Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rudukai13: Originally Posted By CDPhD: Originally Posted By RustedAce: What about red dots though? I'll ask a tangential question. I kind of want to start fucking around with shooting some Carry Optics matches. Right now, all I have for pistols are some Glocks (17, 21, 34), along with some RMRs I haven't mounted on anything. The boring route would be to just get one of the Glocks milled and slap an RMR on it. I want an excuse to buy new shit, though. What would be a solid combo of gun / dot that isn't the same boring striker-fired gun I've been shooting for the last 15 years? It won't be for carry, and I'm willing to spend, say 1700 on the setup - the cost of the last gun I tried to buy but kept getting screwed on (they kept losing my order or something). Honest question/serious suggestion, if you don’t want it for anything other than competition and you have a $1,700 budget why not get a SAO pistol and run in Limited Optics? Same 9mm Minor PF scoring. And it won’t be a boring striker fired pistol In that price range, I think you are looking at a Springfield Prodigy for SA |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:55:38 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: In that price range, I think you are looking at a Springfield Prodigy for SA Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By Rudukai13: Originally Posted By CDPhD: Originally Posted By RustedAce: What about red dots though? I'll ask a tangential question. I kind of want to start fucking around with shooting some Carry Optics matches. Right now, all I have for pistols are some Glocks (17, 21, 34), along with some RMRs I haven't mounted on anything. The boring route would be to just get one of the Glocks milled and slap an RMR on it. I want an excuse to buy new shit, though. What would be a solid combo of gun / dot that isn't the same boring striker-fired gun I've been shooting for the last 15 years? It won't be for carry, and I'm willing to spend, say 1700 on the setup - the cost of the last gun I tried to buy but kept getting screwed on (they kept losing my order or something). Honest question/serious suggestion, if you don’t want it for anything other than competition and you have a $1,700 budget why not get a SAO pistol and run in Limited Optics? Same 9mm Minor PF scoring. And it won’t be a boring striker fired pistol In that price range, I think you are looking at a Springfield Prodigy for SA  Probably more reliable than a Prodigy, and definitely cooler 👀 |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:58:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Rudukai13]
[#38]
These are listed for less than $900 on Gunbroker:
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Posted: 8/10/2023 11:01:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rudukai13: These are listed for less than $900 on Gunbroker: https://marvel-b1-cdn.bc0a.com/f00000000269380/www.beretta.com/assets/0/15/DimLarge/92xi_listing001.jpg pls Stop posting gross guns Thx |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 11:13:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BMSMB]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CDPhD: I'll ask a tangential question. I kind of want to start fucking around with shooting some Carry Optics matches. Right now, all I have for pistols are some Glocks (17, 21, 34), along with some RMRs I haven't mounted on anything. The boring route would be to just get one of the Glocks milled and slap an RMR on it. I want an excuse to buy new shit, though. What would be a solid combo of gun / dot that isn't the same boring striker-fired gun I've been shooting for the last 15 years? It won't be for carry, and I'm willing to spend, say 1700 on the setup - the cost of the last gun I tried to buy but kept getting screwed on (they kept losing my order or something). Cookie cutter, but incredibly good, route would be a shadow 2 and either an SRO or Holosun 507Comp. Sig are also an incredibly popular choice for the division, but I dont know anything about them. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 11:18:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: New2AR15s]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CDPhD: I'll ask a tangential question. I kind of want to start fucking around with shooting some Carry Optics matches. Right now, all I have for pistols are some Glocks (17, 21, 34), along with some RMRs I haven't mounted on anything. The boring route would be to just get one of the Glocks milled and slap an RMR on it. I want an excuse to buy new shit, though. What would be a solid combo of gun / dot that isn't the same boring striker-fired gun I've been shooting for the last 15 years? It won't be for carry, and I'm willing to spend, say 1700 on the setup - the cost of the last gun I tried to buy but kept getting screwed on (they kept losing my order or something). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CDPhD: Originally Posted By RustedAce: What about red dots though? I'll ask a tangential question. I kind of want to start fucking around with shooting some Carry Optics matches. Right now, all I have for pistols are some Glocks (17, 21, 34), along with some RMRs I haven't mounted on anything. The boring route would be to just get one of the Glocks milled and slap an RMR on it. I want an excuse to buy new shit, though. What would be a solid combo of gun / dot that isn't the same boring striker-fired gun I've been shooting for the last 15 years? It won't be for carry, and I'm willing to spend, say 1700 on the setup - the cost of the last gun I tried to buy but kept getting screwed on (they kept losing my order or something). Shadow 2 or P226 SAO if you want to do something other than striker guns. P226 X5 if you up your budget a bit I recently picked up a SAO P226 Legion for something different since Ive been competing with a P320 Eta: SAO only guns will affect what divisions you can shoot which is why Carry Optics is full of 320 Legions and Shadow 2 DA/SA |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 11:35:34 PM EDT
[#42]
This thread convinced me to buy a MOS 19, now I have to find one.........
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 8/10/2023 11:54:21 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 8/11/2023 12:20:54 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sierra-def: While you guys were bitching about how comps work, deals were being had: Socom RMR $439.99 https://shop.gafiringline.com/prodimages/2731-DEFAULT-l.jpg Only half a day late on that one... |
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Posted: 8/11/2023 9:22:06 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CDPhD: I'll ask a tangential question. I kind of want to start fucking around with shooting some Carry Optics matches. Right now, all I have for pistols are some Glocks (17, 21, 34), along with some RMRs I haven't mounted on anything. The boring route would be to just get one of the Glocks milled and slap an RMR on it. I want an excuse to buy new shit, though. What would be a solid combo of gun / dot that isn't the same boring striker-fired gun I've been shooting for the last 15 years? It won't be for carry, and I'm willing to spend, say 1700 on the setup - the cost of the last gun I tried to buy but kept getting screwed on (they kept losing my order or something). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CDPhD: Originally Posted By RustedAce: What about red dots though? I'll ask a tangential question. I kind of want to start fucking around with shooting some Carry Optics matches. Right now, all I have for pistols are some Glocks (17, 21, 34), along with some RMRs I haven't mounted on anything. The boring route would be to just get one of the Glocks milled and slap an RMR on it. I want an excuse to buy new shit, though. What would be a solid combo of gun / dot that isn't the same boring striker-fired gun I've been shooting for the last 15 years? It won't be for carry, and I'm willing to spend, say 1700 on the setup - the cost of the last gun I tried to buy but kept getting screwed on (they kept losing my order or something). Get you a platypus...... 
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Posted: 8/11/2023 10:23:16 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2tired2run: Get you a platypus...... https://cdn7.coreware.com/cache/image-full-327250-1eadc333ed8e59787349bf5d014b4bfd.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2tired2run: Originally Posted By CDPhD: Originally Posted By RustedAce: What about red dots though? I'll ask a tangential question. I kind of want to start fucking around with shooting some Carry Optics matches. Right now, all I have for pistols are some Glocks (17, 21, 34), along with some RMRs I haven't mounted on anything. The boring route would be to just get one of the Glocks milled and slap an RMR on it. I want an excuse to buy new shit, though. What would be a solid combo of gun / dot that isn't the same boring striker-fired gun I've been shooting for the last 15 years? It won't be for carry, and I'm willing to spend, say 1700 on the setup - the cost of the last gun I tried to buy but kept getting screwed on (they kept losing my order or something). Get you a platypus...... https://cdn7.coreware.com/cache/image-full-327250-1eadc333ed8e59787349bf5d014b4bfd.jpg THIS. This is an excellent suggestion considering you’ll already have plenty of Glock mags. Can’t believe I didn’t think of it |
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Posted: 8/11/2023 10:30:32 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2tired2run: Get you a platypus...... https://cdn7.coreware.com/cache/image-full-327250-1eadc333ed8e59787349bf5d014b4bfd.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2tired2run: Originally Posted By CDPhD: Originally Posted By RustedAce: What about red dots though? I'll ask a tangential question. I kind of want to start fucking around with shooting some Carry Optics matches. Right now, all I have for pistols are some Glocks (17, 21, 34), along with some RMRs I haven't mounted on anything. The boring route would be to just get one of the Glocks milled and slap an RMR on it. I want an excuse to buy new shit, though. What would be a solid combo of gun / dot that isn't the same boring striker-fired gun I've been shooting for the last 15 years? It won't be for carry, and I'm willing to spend, say 1700 on the setup - the cost of the last gun I tried to buy but kept getting screwed on (they kept losing my order or something). Get you a platypus...... https://cdn7.coreware.com/cache/image-full-327250-1eadc333ed8e59787349bf5d014b4bfd.jpg Does anyone know if the Platypus frame takes advantage of the Glock mag’s over-insertion feature? |
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Posted: 8/11/2023 12:06:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TW200]
[#48]
I got to speed shoot the piss out of this staccato yesterday and made another new shooting friend.
When i'm at my local range shooting, other shooters keep putting their loaded guns in my hands for me to speed shoot for some reason. I shot this Staccato really fast 30 yards with the 28 round factory magazine. Staccato had a two pound trigger. I shot the fastest I ever have and only missed 3 shots. All together I shot 125 rounds. We both shot Staccato at 50 yards a 1.5 steel plate. We both hit the steel almost every shot. We were both close to the same exact shooting skill level.    |
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Posted: 8/11/2023 12:29:38 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BMSMB: Cookie cutter, but incredibly good, route would be a shadow 2 and either an SRO or Holosun 507Comp. Sig are also an incredibly popular choice for the division, but I dont know anything about them. S2 is an awesome choice for Carry Optics. I think the 320/Legion is also a really good choice and is easier to live with/work on in some respects but doesn’t offer as much raw performance (subjectively speaking). |
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Posted: 8/11/2023 12:31:23 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2tired2run: Get you a platypus...... https://cdn7.coreware.com/cache/image-full-327250-1eadc333ed8e59787349bf5d014b4bfd.jpg On paper, it should really be a winner and I’m not hearing anything bad about them. Then again, I’ve had a lot going on and have been distracted for a couple of months. So what’s the story on these? |
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