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Posted: 9/13/2024 10:36:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: HIPPO]
[#1]
The Biden administration is expected on Friday to announce a major effort to blunt the global influence of RT and expose what it says is the Russian state media network’s key role in the Kremlin’s global intelligence and influence operations, according to a senior administration official and three other sources familiar with the matter. The State Department will reveal declassified US intelligence findings that suggest RT is fully integrated into Russia’s intelligence operations around the world and begin a diplomatic campaign to provide countries with information about the risks associated with RT activities, the official said. A key finding from the new US intelligence is that, for more than a year, the Russian government has quietly embedded an intelligence-gathering unit within RT that is focused on influence operations globally, one of the sources familiar said. That activity has been part of US officials described as a big expansion of RT’s role as an arm and mouthpiece of the Kremlin abroad. The activity goes beyond propaganda and covert influence operations to even include military procurement, the source said. The goal of the US is to make sure that countries know that RT and Russian intelligence agencies are working together in efforts to sow division and harm democratic processes, while simultaneously making it much more difficult for RT to operate globally, the official said. CNN has asked RT for a response. The State Department did not immediately respond to a request for comment. This focus on the global activity of RT and its subsidiaries on behalf of Russian intelligence comes just over a week after the Biden administration announced a major set of measures to tackle similar Russian government-backed efforts inside the US targeting the 2024 US presidential election. The Department of Justice (DOJ) unveiled criminal charges against two Russian nationals, sanctioned on 10 individuals and entities in the efforts, and seized 32 internet domains. US diplomats are looking to the coming days and weeks – including the UN General Assembly gathering – to try and build a coalition of countries to take on this challenge. Formerly known as Russia Today, RT runs television and online platforms around the world that advance the Kremlin’s agenda. The US Department of Justice forced RT America to register as a foreign agent in 2017 after US intelligence officials concluded that the media outlet contributed to Russian efforts to meddle in the 2016 election. The US believes RT propaganda and disinformation has been key to generating pro-Russia reactions to the Ukraine war globally, the senior administration official said. When Russia invaded Ukraine, RT was banned in the European Union, and in the US the channel is not publicly broadcast. But in Latin American and Sub-Saharan Africa RT broadcasts have been expanding. The US led effort to target Huawei – a Chinese telecoms equipment maker – which began during the Trump administration and continued under President Joe Biden is viewed as a model for how US officials are currently looking at targeting RT globally. The US was able to push many countries not to use the Chinese company’s equipment after a global effort to making the case that the company was an instrument of the Chinese government. CNN article link here. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 10:45:11 AM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ServusVeritatis: I don’t know why that isn’t taken as an attempted shoot down. FOD the engines at that height on purpose is no different than putting an A2A missile into it. China knows the west are pussies. Say they FOD that on video how it is and the P8 crashes. What would we do? Honestly we should send one warning to China that if an ATTEMPT is made to destroy manned aircraft (to include dangerous flying, dumping fuel, chat, etc) then we will shoot down your offending aircraft immediately. But both you, me, and them know we won’t. We are pussies….no balls. It will keep happening without consequences. Agree 100%. But I hope you don't expect the Xiden Admin to do anything. They are certainly compromised, especially by China, and they are just the tip of the iceberg. The non-compromised elements of our State dept. are hard core pacifists and escalation managers. It would take something Pearl Harbor level (probably more) to get more than a strongly worded letter from them. I feel sorry for all the dedicated patriots in the US military that will be sacrificed on the escalation management ladder. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 10:47:18 AM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CS223: Because orcs are so backwards that this represents a great feat of engineering & ingenuity worthy of Hero Of Russia medal. Remember, they steal toilets which most don't know know how they even work. Only that you sit to shit instead of gopnik squat which is a huge leap forward in shitting technology. No one is going to shit in one of those fancy white Ukrainian drinking fountains! |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 10:50:12 AM EST
[#4]
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Posted: 9/13/2024 11:06:12 AM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: China doesn't need VLS cells for land launched missiles, and from what we've seen in the red sea our "allied" partners' VLS capacity is a complete joke. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott: China has half the VLS cells that the US has and when you count allied nations VLS cells China will likely face parity in cell counts on day 1. They can reload more quickly though. China doesn't need VLS cells for land launched missiles, and from what we've seen in the red sea our "allied" partners' VLS capacity is a complete joke. Those are European partners. We shouldn’t expect them to come to the Pacific. But the Koreans, Japanese and Australians will be there with hundreds or over a thousand cells. Prioritizing land attack loadouts would be a choice and one I don’t know they’ll make. Our side has the ability to range most or all of China with land, air and sea based missiles but China has relatively few systems that can range the US and if CONUS is attacked we can draw the moderately willing parts of NATO in at that point, probably mostly to defend things between India and Australia. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 11:07:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: HIPPO]
[#6]
Keep watching this one…
September 3rd —
A cargo vessel carrying 20k tons of Russian ammonium nitrate (Beirut explosion was from 2.7kt) has sought refuge under unclear circumstances in Tromsø, N Norway. Police is investigating and has ordered the ship to leave. 6 hours ago a navy frigate docked alongside the ship. September 11th —
Damaged fertilizer ship / floating bomb (depending on intentions) Ruby that got run out of Tromsø a week ago is: A) Heading for Andöya military air/space base. ETA 5h B) Have asked permission to go to Klaipėda, Lithuania for repairs. From Russia with love. WTH September 12th —
September 13th —
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Posted: 9/13/2024 11:20:04 AM EST
[#7]
Should just sink it and blame smokers.
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Posted: 9/13/2024 11:20:24 AM EST
[#8]
Blinken expected to hold presser on or after 1:15 PM today. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 11:32:48 AM EST
[#9]
Streiff's latest analysis: Putin's War Week 133
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Posted: 9/13/2024 11:37:30 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO:
CNN article link here. Fantastic news. Now do China... |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 11:42:36 AM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryExactly why I prefer rail movements of Armor over long-distance truck when feasible! 
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KY, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2024 11:58:17 AM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: And I would ask JD and Trump what does Ukraine get out of this deal? Besides getting fucked? An end of hostilities after all the murder and theft? Fuck that shit! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By stone-age: If I'm not mistaken it's that "out of nato" part that makes sure that russia can invade again later. I think russias wet dream would be 1) Out of NATO 2)Russia gets to keep what they've taken 3)Russia is not responsible for fixing anything they've broken 4)Russia gets some of the sanctions lifted 5)Russia gets some time without war to rebuild and modernize their military. 6)They make some agreement to not invade, something they can just break later with little consequences. And I would ask JD and Trump what does Ukraine get out of this deal? Besides getting fucked? An end of hostilities after all the murder and theft? Fuck that shit! I have been willing up until this point to give Trump/Vance a chance to win me over and secure my vote this November. But that statement from Vance has eliminated any possibility of me voting for the Trump/Vance ticket. Either they are complete fucking idiots or worse, Russian agents. I will not be casting a vote in this year's presidential election because all of the choices are utter dogshit. And I don't want to hear any of this "lesser of two evils" bullshit. There are no lesser of two evils in this case. One ticket is owned by Russia. The other is owned by China. They can both fuck off as far as I am concerned. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 12:03:47 PM EST
[#13]
I'm surprised a
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Posted: 9/13/2024 12:07:47 PM EST
[#14]
JFC |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 12:09:08 PM EST
[#15]
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WI, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2024 12:20:42 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: I have been willing up until this point to give Trump/Vance a chance to win me over and secure my vote this November. But that statement from Vance has eliminated any possibility of me voting for the Trump/Vance ticket. Either they are complete fucking idiots or worse, Russian agents. I will not be casting a vote in this year's presidential election because all of the choices are utter dogshit. And I don't want to hear any of this "lesser of two evils" bullshit. There are no lesser of two evils in this case. One ticket is owned by Russia. The other is owned by China. They can both fuck off as far as I am concerned. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By stone-age: If I'm not mistaken it's that "out of nato" part that makes sure that russia can invade again later. I think russias wet dream would be 1) Out of NATO 2)Russia gets to keep what they've taken 3)Russia is not responsible for fixing anything they've broken 4)Russia gets some of the sanctions lifted 5)Russia gets some time without war to rebuild and modernize their military. 6)They make some agreement to not invade, something they can just break later with little consequences. And I would ask JD and Trump what does Ukraine get out of this deal? Besides getting fucked? An end of hostilities after all the murder and theft? Fuck that shit! I have been willing up until this point to give Trump/Vance a chance to win me over and secure my vote this November. But that statement from Vance has eliminated any possibility of me voting for the Trump/Vance ticket. Either they are complete fucking idiots or worse, Russian agents. I will not be casting a vote in this year's presidential election because all of the choices are utter dogshit. And I don't want to hear any of this "lesser of two evils" bullshit. There are no lesser of two evils in this case. One ticket is owned by Russia. The other is owned by China. They can both fuck off as far as I am concerned. Fair enough. I don’t agree at all, but of course we don’t need to. But I will point out that another 8 years of democrat control will be fatal to our country as we have always known it. There may be a small chance what you say about Trump/Vance is true, but I am certain that “it’s a wrap” if we don’t get the dems out. These last 4 years has been proof enough. Trump/Vance are our last stand whether we like it or not, and I really DON’T. They’ll be gone in 4 years, but at least there’s hope our freedoms won’t be. Hope I’m wrong. Sorry bout the thread slide. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 12:26:38 PM EST
[#17]
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Posted: 9/13/2024 12:27:07 PM EST
[#18]
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Posted: 9/13/2024 12:27:22 PM EST
[#19]
T-90 delete with this one neat trick. Ivan got alt + F4’d.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2024 12:27:24 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: I suspect the answer he'd come to is arming commercial ships. Theres a ton of modern cargo ships available and sailing now - eliminating the biggest production bottleneck. They are gigantic, allowing them to both hold a lot of munitions and making them very hard to sink. We seen the cargo ships hit by Houthis mostly survive, and gigantic Kh-22 russian missile hit a Turkish grain ship today without sinking it. Mount some Patriot etc GBAD and radars on the front, a whole bunch of Andruil / SpaceX low cost cruise missiles in the middle, and a few helicopters in the back. https://www.sandboxx.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/lora.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By GBTX01: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: 11 years to build a ship is just staggering. I know they're the third most complicated machines on the planet, but 11 years? Surely Stennis & Bush could be available a whole lot sooner if we were in a jam, right? And Kennedy could wrap sooner? Right? Maybe we need to hold off on decommissioning Nimitz. Maybe we need to put naval Elon Musk in charge of streamlining ship building! I suspect the answer he'd come to is arming commercial ships. Theres a ton of modern cargo ships available and sailing now - eliminating the biggest production bottleneck. They are gigantic, allowing them to both hold a lot of munitions and making them very hard to sink. We seen the cargo ships hit by Houthis mostly survive, and gigantic Kh-22 russian missile hit a Turkish grain ship today without sinking it. Mount some Patriot etc GBAD and radars on the front, a whole bunch of Andruil / SpaceX low cost cruise missiles in the middle, and a few helicopters in the back. https://www.sandboxx.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/lora.jpg Not saying armed cargo ships is a horrible idea, but those grain carriers survive hits because they are full of grain. Load them up with missiles instead and they will make a T-72 turret toss look like a fire cracker. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 12:34:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: HIPPO]
[#21]
fuck off with your blackmail anatoly ETA — just for reference: 
. @nataliabugayova : The Kremlin depends on the West to accept Russia’s fabricated assertions about reality, which often cause the West to reason to conclusions that advance Russia’s interests and not ours. Key examples include: ▪️ The false assertion that Russia has the right to a self-defined sphere of influence, and, therefore, a right to do whatever it wants to those within this sphere — including invading — with no repercussions ▪️ The false assertion that any provision of advanced military capability to Ukraine is a red line that will result in a nuclear escalation, and therefore, the US should de facto grant a veto to any nuclear power over US national security policy. The Kremlin’s strategy in Ukraine disproportionately depends on the West accepting these premises, making Russia vulnerable to changes in Western perceptions. Russian dependencies give the West opportunities to exploit or dismantle Russia’s capability to sustain the war against Ukraine. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 12:35:33 PM EST
[#22]
There are more details to this story. Goodwin and his mate Ernest (who also died in the meat assault) were part of the 87th Regiment and led a team of specialists who handled drones and combat tasks. Despite their effectiveness, a new commander disbanded the team and confiscated their equipment, restricting aid channels. Ernest and some team members re-formed into a reconnaissance group, identifying key targets before their drone was shot down by friendly fire. After acquiring new equipment, they were tasked with an assault on Lesovka, but by September 13, their group had gone missing.  
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Posted: 9/13/2024 12:50:06 PM EST
[#23]
🤝 Met with Yale University professor, famous historian and researcher of totalitarianism, Timothy Snyder.
▫️ I was impressed by his confident command of the Ukrainian language - the professor learned our language in just a year. 🔗 https://gur.gov.ua/content/kyrylo-budanov-ta-timoti-snaider-provely-zustrich.html  
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Posted: 9/13/2024 1:16:38 PM EST
[#24]
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Posted: 9/13/2024 1:19:38 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Neither do we. https://i.redd.it/e69g1p5bcwnb1.png https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312639728/figure/fig1/AS:456258399543296@1485791887342/US-Navy-positions-in-the-Pacific-2016-Map-created-by-the-University-of.png https://www.voronoiapp.com/geopolitics/Who-Rules-the-Waves-US-and-Chinese-Fleets-by-Tonnage-1345 https://www.voronoiapp.com/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.voronoiapp.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fvoronoi-Who-Rules-the-Waves-US-and-Chinese-Fleets-by-Tonnage-20240606115649.webp&w=1080&q=75 Those are in short range missile distance, which returns us to ground air defense discussions |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 1:21:52 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO:
Technically those Iranian missiles haven’t been used yet and are short range |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 1:26:21 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Larger ships have more capability, range, endurance and survivability. They generate more electrical power, have more and larger sensors, more armaments and larger aviation sections. There is a reason that most navies are getting larger ships with each generation. Chinese ships aren’t just (typically) smaller than US ships they are less capable. That trade, to keep costs lower and make the ships harder to find, may have some value to China but the US cannot operate that way across the ocean. China has half the VLS cells that the US has and when you count allied nations VLS cells China will likely face parity in cell counts on day 1. They can reload more quickly though. China has those small craft for the shallow waters of the South China Sea. The whole “China ain’t got no blue water navy” to fight outside the 1st island chain forgets the flip side to that argument |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 1:28:08 PM EST
[#28]
https://x.com/i/broadcasts/1rmxPoEEovmJN https://ofac.treasury.gov/recent-actions/20240913 |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 1:38:41 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: China has those small craft for the shallow waters of the South China Sea. The whole “China ain’t got no blue water navy” to fight outside the 1st island chain forgets the flip side to that argument That’s basically what I said. We need large ships to cross the ocean. They don’t. That said a huge percentage of their surface combatants have essentially no defense from ballistic anti ship missiles or stealth aircraft. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 1:52:22 PM EST
[#30]
Kind of an embarrassing admission.
Russian territory since May. Of 2022. 13 September, 06:27 In the LPR, a cache with 10 thousand rounds of ammunition and 734 ammunition for artillery was found LUGANSK, September 13. /TASS/. Law enforcement officers found a cache near Popasna in the Lugansk People's Republic, which contained more than 10 thousand cartridges, 734 artillery shots, as well as mines and grenades. "Officers of the combined police detachment of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia in the Lugansk People's Republic, together with colleagues from the FSB of Russia, operatives of the Main Directorate of Criminal Investigation of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia and the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia "Pervomaisky" found ammunition and explosives in the forest belt of the city of Popasnaya," the report says. It is specified that 2,450 foreign-made cartridges, 8,560 rounds of 7.62-mm caliber, 20 rounds of 30-mm caliber, 312 RGN grenades, 20 F-1 grenades, 12 UZRGM fuses, 283 OG-9M1 rounds, 308 PG-9 rounds, 143 rounds for a foreign-made NR-4 8-A-M hand grenade launcher, 21 mines with a PG-7L engine with fuses, 48 powder charges for a grenade launcher were seized from the cache. 315 fuses for VP-22D4 projectiles. The finds were handed over to representatives of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. https://tass.ru/proisshestviya/21856743 |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 2:42:17 PM EST
[#31]
 ME(A)D TEAM ALPHA: The Craziest Medevac Unit in Ukraine that Shoot Rockets ??  ?????? ?????? ????? ???????. ???????? ?? ?????????? ???? ????.  ???????? ????? ?????? ??? ? ???????? ??????? (ENG SUBS)  Kursk Battle. Best Shorts. War Footage & Updates. Why has Ukraine invaded Russia's region? |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 2:52:36 PM EST
[#32]
Can anybody tell me what would happen if one of those thermite
drones parked over a tank and dropped it's load on it? |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 2:56:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Those are in short range missile distance, which returns us to ground air defense discussions Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Neither do we. https://i.redd.it/e69g1p5bcwnb1.png https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312639728/figure/fig1/AS:456258399543296@1485791887342/US-Navy-positions-in-the-Pacific-2016-Map-created-by-the-University-of.png https://www.voronoiapp.com/geopolitics/Who-Rules-the-Waves-US-and-Chinese-Fleets-by-Tonnage-1345 https://www.voronoiapp.com/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.voronoiapp.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fvoronoi-Who-Rules-the-Waves-US-and-Chinese-Fleets-by-Tonnage-20240606115649.webp&w=1080&q=75 Those are in short range missile distance, which returns us to ground air defense discussions Probably why the Air Force has been practicing with using strips of highway to conduct operations in the region. Once the Chinese missiles start flying I think the Air force plans to have as much in the air asap to minimize aircraft losses. https://www.businessinsider.com/us-air-force-special-operators-landing-on-roads-beaches-2023-9 Runway agnostic options.  MILITARY & DEFENSE US Air Force special operators' search for new runways is expanding from highways to beaches Christopher Woody Sep 19, 2023, 7:00 PM EDT US Air Force Special Operations Command is widening its search for runways as it seeks to counter what the US military sees as China's growing ability to threaten its bases across the Pacific. The Air Force as a whole is working to expand the number of places where it can land and launch aircraft as part of Agile Combat Employment, an approach to dispersed operations developed with the Pacific in mind. US airmen have used remote airfields in the Pacific and civilian highways in the US and Europe for ACE-related exercises, and US air commandos are now looking for more highways and soon for beaches on which to do those missions, Lt. Gen. Tony Bauernfeind, the head of Air Force Special Operations Command, the Air Force component of US Special Operations Command, said this month. The efforts are an "acknowledgement that our adversaries have watched the American way of war for several decades and they are going to hold our initial staging bases and our forward operating bases at risk" in a war, Bauernfeind told reporters at the Air and Space Forces Association conference near Washington, DC, on September 12. The search for runways has ramped up in recent years. Gen. Kenneth Wilsbach, commander of US Air Forces in the Pacific, said in late 2020 that his command had "studied every single piece of concrete in the Pacific" to find viable airfields. Since then, US airmen have trained more often in places like Tinian, an unincorporated US territory, and Palau, an island country that has a defense partnership with the US. Highway landings are also increasingly common, including first-of-their-kind landings by piloted aircraft on highways in northern Michigan and the first landing of a drone on a US highway in Wyoming. An adversary that can deny the use of one base "is going to have a nearly impossible time trying to defend every single linear mile of roads," the deputy mission commander of the Wyoming exercise said afterward. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2024 3:00:11 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO:
CNN article link here. I bet there will be a lot of push back from Trump backers. Who can't admit Russia is doing this because they think it means Trump wasn't legitimately elected. Hey, you can know Russia is spreading propaganda and still say Trump won fairly in 2016, ya know.... |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 3:06:03 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: China has those small craft for the shallow waters of the South China Sea. The whole “China ain’t got no blue water navy” to fight outside the 1st island chain forgets the flip side to that argument Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Larger ships have more capability, range, endurance and survivability. They generate more electrical power, have more and larger sensors, more armaments and larger aviation sections. There is a reason that most navies are getting larger ships with each generation. Chinese ships aren’t just (typically) smaller than US ships they are less capable. That trade, to keep costs lower and make the ships harder to find, may have some value to China but the US cannot operate that way across the ocean. China has half the VLS cells that the US has and when you count allied nations VLS cells China will likely face parity in cell counts on day 1. They can reload more quickly though. China has those small craft for the shallow waters of the South China Sea. The whole “China ain’t got no blue water navy” to fight outside the 1st island chain forgets the flip side to that argument Very similar to the US Navy "littoral frigate" doctrine that led to the LCS ("little crappy ships"). Hardly a new naval concept, and has occasionally proven effective. One can make the argument that the Ukrainians have been VERY effective at a variation of this doctrine using mostly drones and small craft to deny Russian naval use of the western Black Sea. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 3:08:54 PM EST
[#36]
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Posted: 9/13/2024 3:08:55 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: I bet there will be a lot of push back from Trump backers. Who can't admit Russia is doing this because they think it means Trump wasn't legitimately elected. Hey, you can know Russia is spreading propaganda and still say Trump won fairly in 2016, ya know.... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Originally Posted By HIPPO:
CNN article link here. I bet there will be a lot of push back from Trump backers. Who can't admit Russia is doing this because they think it means Trump wasn't legitimately elected. Hey, you can know Russia is spreading propaganda and still say Trump won fairly in 2016, ya know.... Probably with some justification. With the current maladministration, EVERYTHING is primarily geared towards domestic political issues. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 3:13:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#38]
 This could be a reason they wanted the 1,000 lb warhead of the LRASM replaced with a 500 lb one but smarter missile with double the range.
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Posted: 9/13/2024 3:16:55 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: Very similar to the US Navy "littoral frigate" doctrine that led to the LCS ("little crappy ships"). Hardly a new naval concept, and has occasionally proven effective. One can make the argument that the Ukrainians have been VERY effective at a variation of this doctrine using mostly drones and small craft to deny Russian naval use of the western Black Sea. It’s niche but for those applications it can be effective, obviously for most everything else, ineffective. China will have to demonstrate the leadership to employ those ships, just owning them won’t be sufficient even in those perfect storm niche situations. On the one hand I caution dismissing China but on the other the PRC is not well known for creativity and thinking outside the box, so we’ll have solutions even if occasions arise in which those ships are advantageous. I have a suspicion we’ll have Russian submarine advisors like Spielberg’s film 1941 {instead of the Nazi} |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 3:19:30 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Probably why the Air Force has been practicing with using strips of highway to conduct operations in the region. Once the Chinese missiles start flying I think the Air force plans to have as much in the air asap to minimize aircraft losses. https://www.businessinsider.com/us-air-force-special-operators-landing-on-roads-beaches-2023-9 Runway agnostic options. Yeah, that effort is soaking up a lot of time, money and diplomacy as necessary as it is. Sorta same situation as finding mid range missile hosts in the Pacific but the runway stuff is at least a lot more successful |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 3:22:08 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: That’s basically what I said. We need large ships to cross the ocean. They don’t. That said a huge percentage of their surface combatants have essentially no defense from ballistic anti ship missiles or stealth aircraft. Ah, I missed your original point |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 3:25:13 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Yeah, that effort is soaking up a lot of time, money and diplomacy as necessary as it is. Sorta same situation as finding mid range missile hosts in the Pacific but the runway stuff is at least a lot more successful Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Probably why the Air Force has been practicing with using strips of highway to conduct operations in the region. Once the Chinese missiles start flying I think the Air force plans to have as much in the air asap to minimize aircraft losses. https://www.businessinsider.com/us-air-force-special-operators-landing-on-roads-beaches-2023-9 Runway agnostic options. Yeah, that effort is soaking up a lot of time, money and diplomacy as necessary as it is. Sorta same situation as finding mid range missile hosts in the Pacific but the runway stuff is at least a lot more successful It is a crazy game of chess. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2024 3:32:45 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: It's niche but for those applications it can be effective, obviously for most everything else, ineffective. China will have to demonstrate the leadership to employ those ships, just owning them won't be sufficient even in those perfect storm niche situations. On the one hand I caution dismissing China but on the other the PRC is not well known for creativity and thinking outside the box, so we'll have solutions even if occasions arise in which those ships are advantageous. I have a suspicion we'll have Russian submarine advisors like Spielberg's film 1941 {instead of the Nazi} Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Originally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: Very similar to the US Navy "littoral frigate" doctrine that led to the LCS ("little crappy ships"). Hardly a new naval concept, and has occasionally proven effective. One can make the argument that the Ukrainians have been VERY effective at a variation of this doctrine using mostly drones and small craft to deny Russian naval use of the western Black Sea. It's niche but for those applications it can be effective, obviously for most everything else, ineffective. China will have to demonstrate the leadership to employ those ships, just owning them won't be sufficient even in those perfect storm niche situations. On the one hand I caution dismissing China but on the other the PRC is not well known for creativity and thinking outside the box, so we'll have solutions even if occasions arise in which those ships are advantageous. I have a suspicion we'll have Russian submarine advisors like Spielberg's film 1941 {instead of the Nazi} They can build a large Navy.....I have to think the big maintenance costs, which usually cost a bit more than building the ships themselves, will make any chance of them invading Taiwan a pretty tight window. Which makes the next couple years most dangerous. Obviously I'm preaching to the choir though.
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Posted: 9/13/2024 3:36:20 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime:
Failed to launch 
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Posted: 9/13/2024 4:16:48 PM EST
[#45]
40 mins ago |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 4:19:19 PM EST
[#46]
And another one
~2 min video in this one:
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Posted: 9/13/2024 4:36:56 PM EST
[#47]
near the frontline. This allows Ukraine to focus concentrated fire on specific sections of the front while targeting deeper operational areas. Russians also say that the EW situation is rather poor due to "complete radio suppression". 
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Posted: 9/13/2024 5:01:00 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: Very similar to the US Navy "littoral frigate" doctrine that led to the LCS ("little crappy ships"). Hardly a new naval concept, and has occasionally proven effective. One can make the argument that the Ukrainians have been VERY effective at a variation of this doctrine using mostly drones and small craft to deny Russian naval use of the western Black Sea. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Larger ships have more capability, range, endurance and survivability. They generate more electrical power, have more and larger sensors, more armaments and larger aviation sections. There is a reason that most navies are getting larger ships with each generation. Chinese ships aren’t just (typically) smaller than US ships they are less capable. That trade, to keep costs lower and make the ships harder to find, may have some value to China but the US cannot operate that way across the ocean. China has half the VLS cells that the US has and when you count allied nations VLS cells China will likely face parity in cell counts on day 1. They can reload more quickly though. China has those small craft for the shallow waters of the South China Sea. The whole “China ain’t got no blue water navy” to fight outside the 1st island chain forgets the flip side to that argument Very similar to the US Navy "littoral frigate" doctrine that led to the LCS ("little crappy ships"). Hardly a new naval concept, and has occasionally proven effective. One can make the argument that the Ukrainians have been VERY effective at a variation of this doctrine using mostly drones and small craft to deny Russian naval use of the western Black Sea. China operates almost 200 small combatants of which the majority are a Wish.com Skjold and most of the rest are a Wish.com LCS. Very vulnerable to airpower and if they try to use land as concealment they are liable to be attacked even by attack helicopters. They can’t generate targets at reasonably safe ranges for their antiship missiles either and will rely on aircraft sensors or major surface combatants to generate targets. I’m not saying it’s pointless but I am saying it’s risky. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 5:02:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO: And another one https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GXYouLeWcAAhyWH?format=jpg&name=medium
~2 min video in this one:
I mean, if you want to directly contradict the Russian MoD...  Summary of the Russian Ministry of Defense on the progress of repelling the attempted invasion of the Ukrainian Armed Forces into the territory of the Russian Federation in the Kursk region (as of September 13, 2024) ▫️ Units of the North group of troops, continuing offensive operations, defeated the formations of the 22nd and 44th mechanized, 82nd and 95th air assault brigades of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the areas of the settlements of Lyubimovka, Darino, Nikolaevo-Daryino, Pokrovsky and Borki. Also, over the past 24 hours, an enemy counterattack in the direction of the settlement of Obukhovka was repelled and two attempted attacks in the direction of the settlements of Kamyshevka and Borki were thwarted. As a result, the Ukrainian Armed Forces lost up to 20 people killed and wounded, one serviceman was captured, two armored combat vehicles and a car were destroyed. ▫️ With the support of army aviation and artillery fire, three enemy attempts to break through the border of the Russian Federation in the direction of the settlements of Novy Put, Medvezhye and Veseloe were repelled. The enemy lost up to 50 personnel killed and wounded, five tanks, two infantry fighting vehicles, an armored personnel carrier, 9 armored combat vehicles, two vehicles and two engineering barrier vehicles. ▫️ Air strikes, artillery fire and troop actions defeated concentrations of manpower and equipment of the 22nd, 61st and 115th mechanized, 17th tank, 80th and 95th air assault brigades, 1st brigade of the National Guard, as well as the 129th Terrestrial Defense Brigade in the areas of the settlements of Borki, Guevo, Darino, Zeleny Shlyakh, Kositsa, Lyubimovka, Malaya Loknya, Martynovka, Novaya Sorochina, Novoivanovka, Nikolaevo-Daryino, Pokrovsky and Uspenovka. Operational-tactical aviation and missile forces attacked concentration areas in the Sumy region and the reserves of the 21st, 22nd and 41st mechanized, 17th tank, 82nd air assault brigades of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, 1st brigade of the National Guard and 1004th Security Brigade, as well as the 101st, 103rd and 129th Terrestrial Defense Brigades in the areas of the settlements of Belopolye, Glukhov, Zhuravka, Obody, Kondratovka, Katerynovka, Rechki, Stepanovka, Sumy, Pavlovka, Pustogorod and Khoten. During the day, the losses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces amounted to up to 300 military personnel and 34 armored vehicles, including seven tanks, two infantry fighting vehicles, three armored personnel carriers and 22 armored combat vehicles, as well as an artillery piece, an electronic warfare station, two engineering barriers vehicles and eight vehicles. Twelve Ukrainian soldiers surrendered. ▫️ In total, during the fighting in the Kursk direction, the enemy lost more than 12,795 military personnel, 108 tanks, 44 infantry fighting vehicles, 86 armored personnel carriers, 691 armored combat vehicles, 418 vehicles, 93 artillery pieces, 26 multiple launch rocket system launchers, including seven HIMARS and five MLRS made in the USA, eight launchers of anti-aircraft missile systems, two transport-loading vehicles, 25 electronic warfare stations, seven counter-battery radars, two air defense radars, twelve units of engineering equipment, of which six engineering vehicles clearing and one mine clearance installation UR- 77. The operation to destroy Ukrainian Armed Forces units continues. https://t.me/mod_russia/43331 |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 5:17:51 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: It’s niche but for those applications it can be effective, obviously for most everything else, ineffective. China will have to demonstrate the leadership to employ those ships, just owning them won’t be sufficient even in those perfect storm niche situations. On the one hand I caution dismissing China but on the other the PRC is not well known for creativity and thinking outside the box, so we’ll have solutions even if occasions arise in which those ships are advantageous. I have a suspicion we’ll have Russian submarine advisors like Spielberg’s film 1941 {instead of the Nazi} Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Originally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: Very similar to the US Navy "littoral frigate" doctrine that led to the LCS ("little crappy ships"). Hardly a new naval concept, and has occasionally proven effective. One can make the argument that the Ukrainians have been VERY effective at a variation of this doctrine using mostly drones and small craft to deny Russian naval use of the western Black Sea. It’s niche but for those applications it can be effective, obviously for most everything else, ineffective. China will have to demonstrate the leadership to employ those ships, just owning them won’t be sufficient even in those perfect storm niche situations. On the one hand I caution dismissing China but on the other the PRC is not well known for creativity and thinking outside the box, so we’ll have solutions even if occasions arise in which those ships are advantageous. I have a suspicion we’ll have Russian submarine advisors like Spielberg’s film 1941 {instead of the Nazi} Probably. I just feel bad for the Taiwanese/Filipino version of Slim Pickens!
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