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Posted: 9/13/2024 5:20:11 PM EST
[#1]
T
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO: AP: North Korea discloses a uranium enrichment facility as Kim calls for more nuclear weaponshttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/61522/IMG_4939_jpeg-3320859.JPG |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2024 5:22:56 PM EST
[#2]
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NV, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2024 5:24:56 PM EST
[#3]
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NV, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2024 5:25:31 PM EST
[#4]
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Posted: 9/13/2024 5:26:34 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: They can build a large Navy.....I have to think the big maintenance costs, which usually cost a bit more than building the ships themselves, will make any chance of them invading Taiwan a pretty tight window. Which makes the next couple years most dangerous. Obviously I'm preaching to the choir though.  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Originally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: Very similar to the US Navy "littoral frigate" doctrine that led to the LCS ("little crappy ships"). Hardly a new naval concept, and has occasionally proven effective. One can make the argument that the Ukrainians have been VERY effective at a variation of this doctrine using mostly drones and small craft to deny Russian naval use of the western Black Sea. It's niche but for those applications it can be effective, obviously for most everything else, ineffective. China will have to demonstrate the leadership to employ those ships, just owning them won't be sufficient even in those perfect storm niche situations. On the one hand I caution dismissing China but on the other the PRC is not well known for creativity and thinking outside the box, so we'll have solutions even if occasions arise in which those ships are advantageous. I have a suspicion we'll have Russian submarine advisors like Spielberg's film 1941 {instead of the Nazi} They can build a large Navy.....I have to think the big maintenance costs, which usually cost a bit more than building the ships themselves, will make any chance of them invading Taiwan a pretty tight window. Which makes the next couple years most dangerous. Obviously I'm preaching to the choir though. Plus, the issue will be naval losses, and making up for them creatively. One problem with a "small ship" fight is that it quicky evolves into a "big ship" fight (think Solomons Island Campaign of 1942/43). The battle will often come down to things like ship repair capabilities, damage control, and being able to reconstitute combat in the face of losses. The South China Sea will get a bunch of new artificial reefs from both sides to join the ones from World War 2 and Vietnam, as the seafloor gains a bunch of new vessels and aircraft to join the ones already there. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 5:33:41 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: I have been willing up until this point to give Trump/Vance a chance to win me over and secure my vote this November. But that statement from Vance has eliminated any possibility of me voting for the Trump/Vance ticket. Either they are complete fucking idiots or worse, Russian agents. I will not be casting a vote in this year's presidential election because all of the choices are utter dogshit. And I don't want to hear any of this "lesser of two evils" bullshit. There are no lesser of two evils in this case. One ticket is owned by Russia. The other is owned by China. They can both fuck off as far as I am concerned. I definitely understand single-issue voting, but I'm also tired of waiting for the 'perfect' candidate. Is anyone seriously going to argue that McCain or Romney would have been just as bad as Obama in every way? Of course not. They were awful candidates but they weren't Obama. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 5:50:49 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: China operates almost 200 small combatants of which the majority are a Wish.com Skjold and most of the rest are a Wish.com LCS. Very vulnerable to airpower and if they try to use land as concealment they are liable to be attacked even by attack helicopters. They can’t generate targets at reasonably safe ranges for their antiship missiles either and will rely on aircraft sensors or major surface combatants to generate targets. I’m not saying it’s pointless but I am saying it’s risky. Like the ground bases they have all over SCS on artificial islands including ones that don't rightfully belong to them? They have about a dozen static airbases, presumably with ample radar and air defense. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 5:55:04 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GoldenMead: That is not correct and not how the US military works. They go to basic training and then AIT. Then they go to their unit and then those “midwits” learn from guys who have been doing the job for decade. They spend many months or longer learning their “system”, hours and hours in the field training. The US military spends a ridiculous amount of money to train one soldier. Ukrainian troops getting trained in Europe only get a fraction of the training our guys do. First, 'midwit' meaning middle, not derogatory. Second, the point is that average people became able to use these systems over the course of several weeks, and okay months to get good at it. I don't believe that ONLY Americans can become operators of the systems. The point about shallow training from the west for AFU is valid. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 6:03:36 PM EST
[#9]
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Posted: 9/13/2024 6:23:56 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Like the ground bases they have all over SCS on artificial islands including ones that don't rightfully belong to them? They have about a dozen static airbases, presumably with ample radar and air defense. Much like US airbases on islands, those are going to get blasted on day 1. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 6:30:15 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Much like US airbases on islands, those are going to get blasted on day 1. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Like the ground bases they have all over SCS on artificial islands including ones that don't rightfully belong to them? They have about a dozen static airbases, presumably with ample radar and air defense. Much like US airbases on islands, those are going to get blasted on day 1. I don't know if any of the small islands/atolls are defensible in the current environment (regardless of which boots are on them). Saturation is a real SOB to deal with. Maybe... Maybe if some of the more sophisticated GBAD systems come online in the next decade, but that's to be determined. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 6:44:12 PM EST
[#12]
Those islands and the ships that supply them can be ranged from land on two or three sides. I don’t expect that it’s going to be a happy life for the guys stationed there.
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Posted: 9/13/2024 8:09:43 PM EST
[#13]
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Posted: 9/13/2024 8:13:26 PM EST
[#14]
On the YouTube channel "O! Nebylovych" released a powerful video about the special assault company of our unit.
This is a story about those who went from the stadiums to combat missions as part of the active operations unit of the GUR MO KRAKEN. About football devotion, which turned into a man's fighting courage. Just like the ancient hoplites who went into battle in a dense phalanx, defending their cities and freedom, today's warriors stand side by side, ready to protect the common future. Their strength is faith in each other and dedication to a common goal. History repeats itself - the same principles apply now. Full video HERE.  ????????? ?????? ? ????? ??? Also, see a great interview with the soldiers of the company on the Zee Interviewer channel. https://t.me/kraken_kha/633 |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 8:24:46 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
It looks like it's time for the thermite drones to have an fpv high explosive escort. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 8:39:40 PM EST
[#16]
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Posted: 9/13/2024 9:02:42 PM EST
[#17]
The ICRC office will suspend its work in Dnipro after the death of three employees as a result of the shelling of Virolyubivka in Donetsk region
https://suspilne.media/dnipro/835967-ofis-mkch-prizupinit-svou-robotu-u-dnipri-pisla-zagibeli-troh-pracivnikiv-vnaslidok-obstrilu-virolubivki-na-doneccini/ |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2024 9:04:21 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: I definitely understand single-issue voting, but I'm also tired of waiting for the 'perfect' candidate. Is anyone seriously going to argue that McCain or Romney would have been just as bad as Obama in every way? Of course not. They were awful candidates but they weren't Obama. I voted for McCain and Romney despite having many negative feelings about both of those candidates. But I wouldn't have had they taken a position that either purposefully or indirectly rewarded Russia for invading a European nation. That isn't just some kind of minor policy difference I can overlook. That is something so serious as to be a deal breaker for me. Unlike Trump, Romney at least had enough sense to recognize Russia for what they are ----an untrustworthy adversary. And this was before they ever invaded Ukraine! Now we have a Trump/Vance ticket that wants to halt the war along current lines, which basically gives Russia most of what they've been striving to achieve. Either Trump is the dumbest son of a bitch that we've ever had for a president, or he is on the payroll for the other side. I don't see any other reasonable conclusion one can draw when looking at this situation. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 9:12:51 PM EST
[#19]
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Posted: 9/13/2024 9:14:13 PM EST
[#20]
🔥 Today, the first part of our HUMINT/CYBINT study, which we distributed in X under the hashtag #SU30Leaks, was published on the website of the international intelligence community InformNapalm in 9 languages.
In this study, we uncovered a shadowy scheme that allows the Russian Federation to continue servicing its military aircraft despite international sanctions. Thanks to unique documents and testimonies, we managed to establish how the Kazakh company ARC Group cooperates with the Russian military and maintains Russian Su-30SM aircraft, which are equipped with French THALES and SAFRAN aviation equipment. 🔥 We ask both journalists and readers to actively participate in the dissemination of this study, which is already available: ▪️︎ in Ukrainian ▪️︎ in English ▪️︎ in French ▪️︎ in German ▪️︎ in Spanish ▪️︎ in Portuguese ▪️︎ in Bulgarian ▪️︎ in Swedish ▪️︎ in Russian 🔥 Let's light a flame together today that will overcome the darkness of Russian lies and force French companies to stop cooperation with ARC Group. https://informnapalm.org/en/french-equipment-thales-safran-for-russian-aircraft/ https://t.me/informnapalm/22990 |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 9:18:53 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GoldenMead: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/482001/IMG_0900_jpeg-3321655.JPG Lol. 1.7 million seafarers vs merchant marines? Are they counting anyone with a boat? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2024 9:21:04 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: It looks like it's time for the thermite drones to have an fpv high explosive escort. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
It looks like it's time for the thermite drones to have an fpv high explosive escort. That's the most tracers I have seen in a while from assault groups |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 9:21:06 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: Probably. I just feel bad for the Taiwanese/Filipino version of Slim Pickens! Where Hollywood? Right here! 
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Posted: 9/13/2024 9:25:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: GoldenMead]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: Lol. 1.7 million seafarers vs merchant marines? Are they counting anyone with a boat? US Merchant Mariners run less than 200 ships. China calls their ”mariners” seafarers and run 7,000 ships. And no they don’t count anyone with a boat. China’s ships are vastly larger than ours. So not sure what you are laughing about. The US ship industry is a disaster. Edit more info: last year the US navy had 8 ships built and decommissioned 12. Every single ship currently being built for the navy is YEARS behind schedule. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2024 9:25:59 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey:
If they can't figure out how to speed up production expect to get nationalized. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 9:33:40 PM EST
[#26]
Just think China could do with 8,100 preprogrammed drones for a military mission. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2024 9:34:08 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: I voted for McCain and Romney despite having many negative feelings about both of those candidates. But I wouldn't have had they taken a position that either purposefully or indirectly rewarded Russia for invading a European nation. That isn't just some kind of minor policy difference I can overlook. That is something so serious as to be a deal breaker for me. Unlike Trump, Romney at least had enough sense to recognize Russia for what they are ----an untrustworthy adversary. And this was before they ever invaded Ukraine! Now we have a Trump/Vance ticket that wants to halt the war along current lines, which basically gives Russia most of what they've been striving to achieve. Either Trump is the dumbest son of a bitch that we've ever had for a president, or he is on the payroll for the other side. I don't see any other reasonable conclusion one can draw when looking at this situation. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: I definitely understand single-issue voting, but I'm also tired of waiting for the 'perfect' candidate. Is anyone seriously going to argue that McCain or Romney would have been just as bad as Obama in every way? Of course not. They were awful candidates but they weren't Obama. I voted for McCain and Romney despite having many negative feelings about both of those candidates. But I wouldn't have had they taken a position that either purposefully or indirectly rewarded Russia for invading a European nation. That isn't just some kind of minor policy difference I can overlook. That is something so serious as to be a deal breaker for me. Unlike Trump, Romney at least had enough sense to recognize Russia for what they are ----an untrustworthy adversary. And this was before they ever invaded Ukraine! Now we have a Trump/Vance ticket that wants to halt the war along current lines, which basically gives Russia most of what they've been striving to achieve. Either Trump is the dumbest son of a bitch that we've ever had for a president, or he is on the payroll for the other side. I don't see any other reasonable conclusion one can draw when looking at this situation. Wow. There are far more important things going on within our own nation than Ukraine getting smaller. I can't believe how candidates like Kamala ever even become viable, then I read posts like yours. Short sighted emotional BS. |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2024 9:40:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: Glock63]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: I voted for McCain and Romney despite having many negative feelings about both of those candidates. But I wouldn't have had they taken a position that either purposefully or indirectly rewarded Russia for invading a European nation. That isn't just some kind of minor policy difference I can overlook. That is something so serious as to be a deal breaker for me. Unlike Trump, Romney at least had enough sense to recognize Russia for what they are ----an untrustworthy adversary. And this was before they ever invaded Ukraine! Now we have a Trump/Vance ticket that wants to halt the war along current lines, which basically gives Russia most of what they've been striving to achieve. Either Trump is the dumbest son of a bitch that we've ever had for a president, or he is on the payroll for the other side. I don't see any other reasonable conclusion one can draw when looking at this situation. Wether you want to accept it or not, that's probably the best Ukraine can hope for. Barring direct nato intervention, they aren't pushing Russia out of the occupied territories. It simply isn't going to happen. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 9:41:58 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GoldenMead: US Merchant Mariners run less than 80 ships. China calls their ”mariners” seafarers and run 5,500 ships. And no they don’t count anyone with a boat. China’s ships are vastly larger than ours. So not sure what you are laughing about. The US ship industry is a disaster. Edit more info: last year the US navy had 8 ships built and decommissioned 12. Every single ship currently being built for the navy is YEARS behind schedule. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GoldenMead: Originally Posted By fike: Lol. 1.7 million seafarers vs merchant marines? Are they counting anyone with a boat? US Merchant Mariners run less than 80 ships. China calls their ”mariners” seafarers and run 5,500 ships. And no they don’t count anyone with a boat. China’s ships are vastly larger than ours. So not sure what you are laughing about. The US ship industry is a disaster. Edit more info: last year the US navy had 8 ships built and decommissioned 12. Every single ship currently being built for the navy is YEARS behind schedule. So…an average of 309 crew per ship? If you want to equate that number to size of the ship, the largest shipping vessels on earth have a crew of about 30. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 9:45:33 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: So…an average of 309 crew per ship? If you want to equate that number to size of the ship, the largest shipping vessels on earth have a crew of about 30. The numbers came from your government I’m just relaying the information. Also there are multiple crews per ship. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 9:51:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: fike]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GoldenMead: The numbers came from your government I’m just relaying the information. Also there are multiple crews per ship. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GoldenMead: Originally Posted By fike: So…an average of 309 crew per ship? If you want to equate that number to size of the ship, the largest shipping vessels on earth have a crew of about 30. The numbers came from your government I’m just relaying the information. Also there are multiple crews per ship. Where did it come from? Got a link? And who is your government? |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 10:00:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: GoldenMead]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: Where did it come from? Got a link? And who is your government? It’s in Mike Waltz new legislation I was reading regard ship building. It’s where the picture came from. Shows China with 7,000 ships. PACFLEET CO says they have over 5,500. https://news.usni.org/2024/02/01/pacfleet-co-paparo-warns-a-weak-u-s-maritime-sector-risk-in-conflict-with-china |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 10:10:06 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GoldenMead: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/482001/IMG_0900_jpeg-3321655.JPG Industry is the heart of a nation. It drives the economy, it creates wealth, it creates capacity for ventures of significance like the Apollo program. That graph is one slice out of many similar pieces that show PRC > USA. Where do your tools, appliances, household goods, and small machinery come from? China. The narrative that the US is still bigger or more powerful somehow is a rearward view, it's normalcy bias. But GD will surely say 'yeah, but...' |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 10:12:37 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Industry is the heart of a nation. It drives the economy, it creates wealth, it creates capacity for ventures of significance like the Apollo program. That graph is one slice out of many similar pieces that show PRC > USA. Where do your tools, appliances, household goods, and small machinery come from? China. The narrative that the US is still bigger or more powerful somehow is a rearward view, it's normalcy bias. But GD will surely say 'yeah, but...' Yep people just laugh at it literally. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2024 10:16:41 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Nicodemus7: Wow. There are far more important things going on within our own nation than Ukraine getting smaller. I can't believe how candidates like Kamala ever even become viable, then I read posts like yours. Short sighted emotional BS. Short sighted? Just how far would Trump have to go before some of you would be willing to write him off? For me, siding with our enemies exceeds my limit for party loyalty. I voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020. But this Ukraine situation has been quite revealing to me and showed me some things I didn't want to believe are likely true. Kamala isn't a choice. I could never vote for her under any circumstances. But Trump is likewise so questionable that I cannot in good faith vote for him either. So sitting out this election is all I can do. I will still vote in the down ballot races, at least the ones that don't feature pro-Russian republicans. But I simply won't vote for that kind of idiocy. I have overlooked many things in my life and voted for R candidates because they were the lesser of two evils. But I won't vote for traitors. If that makes me short sighted and emotional, then I am short sighted and emotional. What I'm not is a Putin peter puffer. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 10:21:28 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Nicodemus7: Wow. There are far more important things going on within our own nation than Ukraine getting smaller. I can't believe how candidates like Kamala ever even become viable, then I read posts like yours. Short sighted emotional BS. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Nicodemus7: Originally Posted By Charging_Handle: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: I definitely understand single-issue voting, but I'm also tired of waiting for the 'perfect' candidate. Is anyone seriously going to argue that McCain or Romney would have been just as bad as Obama in every way? Of course not. They were awful candidates but they weren't Obama. I voted for McCain and Romney despite having many negative feelings about both of those candidates. But I wouldn't have had they taken a position that either purposefully or indirectly rewarded Russia for invading a European nation. That isn't just some kind of minor policy difference I can overlook. That is something so serious as to be a deal breaker for me. Unlike Trump, Romney at least had enough sense to recognize Russia for what they are ----an untrustworthy adversary. And this was before they ever invaded Ukraine! Now we have a Trump/Vance ticket that wants to halt the war along current lines, which basically gives Russia most of what they've been striving to achieve. Either Trump is the dumbest son of a bitch that we've ever had for a president, or he is on the payroll for the other side. I don't see any other reasonable conclusion one can draw when looking at this situation. Wow. There are far more important things going on within our own nation than Ukraine getting smaller. I can't believe how candidates like Kamala ever even become viable, then I read posts like yours. Short sighted emotional BS. Framing this as "Ukraine getting smaller" is indicative of you not understanding the situation at all. This war is not about territory, but rather about the existence of a separate Ukrainian people. It is genocidal both in intent and conduct. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 10:28:35 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Glock63: Wether you want to accept it or not, that's probably the best Ukraine can hope for. Barring direct nato intervention, they aren't pushing Russia out of the occupied territories. It simply isn't going to happen. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Glock63: Originally Posted By Charging_Handle: I voted for McCain and Romney despite having many negative feelings about both of those candidates. But I wouldn't have had they taken a position that either purposefully or indirectly rewarded Russia for invading a European nation. That isn't just some kind of minor policy difference I can overlook. That is something so serious as to be a deal breaker for me. Unlike Trump, Romney at least had enough sense to recognize Russia for what they are ----an untrustworthy adversary. And this was before they ever invaded Ukraine! Now we have a Trump/Vance ticket that wants to halt the war along current lines, which basically gives Russia most of what they've been striving to achieve. Either Trump is the dumbest son of a bitch that we've ever had for a president, or he is on the payroll for the other side. I don't see any other reasonable conclusion one can draw when looking at this situation. Wether you want to accept it or not, that's probably the best Ukraine can hope for. Barring direct nato intervention, they aren't pushing Russia out of the occupied territories. It simply isn't going to happen. I think that most people would accept a peace deal that entailed Ukraine ceding what's currently occupied, provided they got to maintain military power and domestic/foreign policy agency. The problem is, there is no evidence that Russia is interested in such a deal, and there's tons of evidence to the contrary. Putin and Russian leadership as a whole have constantly signaled that their war goals remain in place, in terms of demilitarization and denazification. One of the last times negotiations were brought up, Putin stated that the starting point for negotiations to begin was ceding the entirety of the four occupied oblasts and agreeing not to join NATO. In effect, that's what the war is still being fought over, not retaking occupied Donbas or Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, which is not going to happen given the current state of the ZSU. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 10:40:16 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jaehaerys: Framing this as "Ukraine getting smaller" is indicative of you not understanding the situation at all. This war is not about territory, but rather about the existence of a separate Ukrainian people. It is genocidal both in intent and conduct. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jaehaerys: Originally Posted By Nicodemus7: Originally Posted By Charging_Handle: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: I definitely understand single-issue voting, but I'm also tired of waiting for the 'perfect' candidate. Is anyone seriously going to argue that McCain or Romney would have been just as bad as Obama in every way? Of course not. They were awful candidates but they weren't Obama. I voted for McCain and Romney despite having many negative feelings about both of those candidates. But I wouldn't have had they taken a position that either purposefully or indirectly rewarded Russia for invading a European nation. That isn't just some kind of minor policy difference I can overlook. That is something so serious as to be a deal breaker for me. Unlike Trump, Romney at least had enough sense to recognize Russia for what they are ----an untrustworthy adversary. And this was before they ever invaded Ukraine! Now we have a Trump/Vance ticket that wants to halt the war along current lines, which basically gives Russia most of what they've been striving to achieve. Either Trump is the dumbest son of a bitch that we've ever had for a president, or he is on the payroll for the other side. I don't see any other reasonable conclusion one can draw when looking at this situation. Wow. There are far more important things going on within our own nation than Ukraine getting smaller. I can't believe how candidates like Kamala ever even become viable, then I read posts like yours. Short sighted emotional BS. Framing this as "Ukraine getting smaller" is indicative of you not understanding the situation at all. This war is not about territory, but rather about the existence of a separate Ukrainian people. It is genocidal both in intent and conduct. Not to mention that after Ukraine is subjected/killed then the rest of Europe comes under the gun. It is all just a matter time. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 10:44:12 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GoldenMead: Yep people just laugh at it literally. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GoldenMead: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Industry is the heart of a nation. It drives the economy, it creates wealth, it creates capacity for ventures of significance like the Apollo program. That graph is one slice out of many similar pieces that show PRC > USA. Where do your tools, appliances, household goods, and small machinery come from? China. The narrative that the US is still bigger or more powerful somehow is a rearward view, it's normalcy bias. But GD will surely say 'yeah, but...' Yep people just laugh at it literally. I pulled some numbers (for science). Container shipping 1. MSC - Swiss - 19.9% market share 2. Maersk - Danish - 14.6% market share 3. CMA CGM - French - 12.7% market share 4. COSCO - Chinese - 10.8% market share 5. Hapag-Lloyd - German - 7.0% market share 6. ONE - Japanese - 6.3% market share 7. Evergreen - Taiwanese -5.7% market share 8. HMM - South Korean - 2.8% market share 9. Yang Ming - Taiwanese - 2.5% market share 10. Zim - Israeli - 2.3% market share The top 10 account for 84.1% world market share. The only other Chinese companies in the top 30 (Shandong, Zhonggu, Antong, and Ningbo) account for an additional 1.6%. All told in the top 30, Chinese companies account for 842 container ships and 12.4% market share. If you look at dry bulk, the Chinese aren't a massive player either. Oil shipping, same thing. Going back to the 1.7 million number, the total world number is 1.9 million. Of those, 380,000 are Chinese working on international voyages and 120,000 are working on coastal voyages. For reference, the Philippines has 400,000. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 10:48:36 PM EST
[#40]
As always, thank you everyone that contributes. I’ve been reading every page from day one in the old thread.
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Posted: 9/13/2024 10:54:24 PM EST
[#41]
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Posted: 9/13/2024 11:09:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: GoldenMead]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: I pulled some numbers (for science). Container shipping 1. MSC - Swiss - 19.9% market share 2. Maersk - Danish - 14.6% market share 3. CMA CGM - French - 12.7% market share 4. COSCO - Chinese - 10.8% market share 5. Hapag-Lloyd - German - 7.0% market share 6. ONE - Japanese - 6.3% market share 7. Evergreen - Taiwanese -5.7% market share 8. HMM - South Korean - 2.8% market share 9. Yang Ming - Taiwanese - 2.5% market share 10. Zim - Israeli - 2.3% market share The top 10 account for 84.1% world market share. The only other Chinese companies in the top 30 (Shandong, Zhonggu, Antong, and Ningbo) account for an additional 1.6%. All told in the top 30, Chinese companies account for 842 container ships and 12.4% market share. If you look at dry bulk, the Chinese aren't a massive player either. Oil shipping, same thing. Going back to the 1.7 million number, the total world number is 1.9 million. Of those, 380,000 are Chinese working on international voyages and 120,000 are working on coastal voyages. For reference, the Philippines has 400,000. China has the largest shipping fleet which it just surpassed Greece which was #1 forever. You said Chinas is not a player in bulk carriers? They literally have 20% of the market share. A simple search confirms all of this. Then add in the amount of ships and tonnage they are producing every year. Your information looks like it’s 15 years old. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2024 11:14:36 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryI do believe 73 is a fucking record. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 11:19:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: fike]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GoldenMead: China has the largest shipping fleet which it just surpassed Greece which was #1 forever. You said Chinas is not a player in bulk carriers? They literally have 20% of the market share. A simple search confirms all of this. Then add in the amount of ships and tonnage they are producing every year. Your information looks like it’s 15 years old. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GoldenMead: Originally Posted By fike: I pulled some numbers (for science). Container shipping 1. MSC - Swiss - 19.9% market share 2. Maersk - Danish - 14.6% market share 3. CMA CGM - French - 12.7% market share 4. COSCO - Chinese - 10.8% market share 5. Hapag-Lloyd - German - 7.0% market share 6. ONE - Japanese - 6.3% market share 7. Evergreen - Taiwanese -5.7% market share 8. HMM - South Korean - 2.8% market share 9. Yang Ming - Taiwanese - 2.5% market share 10. Zim - Israeli - 2.3% market share The top 10 account for 84.1% world market share. The only other Chinese companies in the top 30 (Shandong, Zhonggu, Antong, and Ningbo) account for an additional 1.6%. All told in the top 30, Chinese companies account for 842 container ships and 12.4% market share. If you look at dry bulk, the Chinese aren't a massive player either. Oil shipping, same thing. Going back to the 1.7 million number, the total world number is 1.9 million. Of those, 380,000 are Chinese working on international voyages and 120,000 are working on coastal voyages. For reference, the Philippines has 400,000. China has the largest shipping fleet which it just surpassed Greece which was #1 forever. You said Chinas is not a player in bulk carriers? They literally have 20% of the market share. A simple search confirms all of this. Then add in the amount of ships and tonnage they are producing every year. Your information looks like it’s 15 years old. It’s current. The 1.7 million number is bullshit as an analog to seagoing merchant marines. What are the companies that make up the largest shipping fleet in the world for China? |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 11:21:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: GoldenMead]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: It’s current. The 1.7 million number is bullshit as an analog to seagoing merchant marines. Well yell at your government for the wrong number then. But I’ll take the US Navy’s numbers over your fictional ones with no sources. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 11:24:14 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GoldenMead: Well yell at your government for the wrong number then. But I’ll take the US Navy’s numbers over your fictional ones with no sources. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GoldenMead: Originally Posted By fike: It’s current. The 1.7 million number is bullshit as an analog to seagoing merchant marines. Well yell at your government for the wrong number then. But I’ll take the US Navy’s numbers over your fictional ones with no sources. Again, who is your government? |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 11:25:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: GoldenMead]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: Again, who is your government? You’d like to know. I’ll give you a hint it’s run by an old bastard. https://www.ship-technology.com/news/china-overtakes-greece-fleet-tonnage-leader/#:~:text=The%20latest%20estimates%20value%20China |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2024 11:31:30 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jaehaerys: Framing this as "Ukraine getting smaller" is indicative of you not understanding the situation at all. This war is not about territory, but rather about the existence of a separate Ukrainian people. It is genocidal both in intent and conduct. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jaehaerys: Originally Posted By Nicodemus7: Originally Posted By Charging_Handle: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: I definitely understand single-issue voting, but I'm also tired of waiting for the 'perfect' candidate. Is anyone seriously going to argue that McCain or Romney would have been just as bad as Obama in every way? Of course not. They were awful candidates but they weren't Obama. I voted for McCain and Romney despite having many negative feelings about both of those candidates. But I wouldn't have had they taken a position that either purposefully or indirectly rewarded Russia for invading a European nation. That isn't just some kind of minor policy difference I can overlook. That is something so serious as to be a deal breaker for me. Unlike Trump, Romney at least had enough sense to recognize Russia for what they are ----an untrustworthy adversary. And this was before they ever invaded Ukraine! Now we have a Trump/Vance ticket that wants to halt the war along current lines, which basically gives Russia most of what they've been striving to achieve. Either Trump is the dumbest son of a bitch that we've ever had for a president, or he is on the payroll for the other side. I don't see any other reasonable conclusion one can draw when looking at this situation. Wow. There are far more important things going on within our own nation than Ukraine getting smaller. I can't believe how candidates like Kamala ever even become viable, then I read posts like yours. Short sighted emotional BS. Framing this as "Ukraine getting smaller" is indicative of you not understanding the situation at all. This war is not about territory, but rather about the existence of a separate Ukrainian people. It is genocidal both in intent and conduct. No, it's not that at all. When corrupt dictators have the will and means to commit genocide, they do it. And Putin has the means. Ukraine is a resource rich country in a strategic location. NATO wants to bennifit from what Russia had a hold on until the revolution under Obama. Over there it's a Civil War. Here it's a civil war if your smart or an existential threat to western civilization.l if your a warhawk, establishment military industrial complex cuck, a dumbass or both. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 11:32:27 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: I pulled some numbers (for science). Container shipping 1. MSC - Swiss - 19.9% market share 2. Maersk - Danish - 14.6% market share 3. CMA CGM - French - 12.7% market share 4. COSCO - Chinese - 10.8% market share 5. Hapag-Lloyd - German - 7.0% market share 6. ONE - Japanese - 6.3% market share 7. Evergreen - Taiwanese -5.7% market share 8. HMM - South Korean - 2.8% market share 9. Yang Ming - Taiwanese - 2.5% market share 10. Zim - Israeli - 2.3% market share The top 10 account for 84.1% world market share. The only other Chinese companies in the top 30 (Shandong, Zhonggu, Antong, and Ningbo) account for an additional 1.6%. All told in the top 30, Chinese companies account for 842 container ships and 12.4% market share. If you look at dry bulk, the Chinese aren't a massive player either. Oil shipping, same thing. Going back to the 1.7 million number, the total world number is 1.9 million. Of those, 380,000 are Chinese working on international voyages and 120,000 are working on coastal voyages. For reference, the Philippines has 400,000. Now do loaded container origins. |
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Posted: 9/13/2024 11:34:00 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GoldenMead: You’d like to know. I’ll give you a hint it’s run by an old bastard. https://www.ship-technology.com/news/china-overtakes-greece-fleet-tonnage-leader/#:~:text=The%20latest%20estimates%20value%20China Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GoldenMead: Originally Posted By fike: Again, who is your government? You’d like to know. I’ll give you a hint it’s run by an old bastard. https://www.ship-technology.com/news/china-overtakes-greece-fleet-tonnage-leader/#:~:text=The%20latest%20estimates%20value%20China I’ll go ahead and assume you aren’t an Army vet living in Minnesota. The Chinese-owned fleet is reported to have recently surpassed Greece with a total of 249.2 million gross tons compared to Greece which currently stands at 249 million gross tons. While Greece has a commanding lead in the more significant deadweight tonnage (dwt) measuring cargo capacity, China is still trumpeting the development. |
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