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Posted: 2/18/2018 10:14:58 PM EDT
[#1]
I would accept Architecture
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Posted: 2/18/2018 10:19:20 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They should make it accounting.  |
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Posted: 2/18/2018 10:42:14 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Google human factors or ergonomics, that along with making a product proportional and beautiful is my day in day out. The principles that govern those things are based on science and math like any engineering principle. The arrogance, indifference, and ignorance of engineers just make shit harder than it has to be. Haveing an engineer tell me that it's unimportant what handle a $12,000 luxury appliance has is just silly. All of the work that engineer put in doesn't mean shit if the product looks like a bunch of engineers tacked on an off the shelf handle and half assed the gaps because it makes their life easier. Ignore and bilittle art at your own risk if you're engineering on human centered products, your competitors thank you. |
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Posted: 2/18/2018 10:59:42 PM EDT
[#4]
It's one of my triggers. I get angry, and I don't even have a fucking degree.
They did steam night at the local school...... Cleveland steamer that is..... It's fucking horseshit. Stop watering shit down. The acronym becomes useless if you include arts. Just as well say, fuck just get a degree. It's not really relevant which one........ God damnit! FUCK! Makes me want to kick a lib in the face........ Fucking shit!  I Said Over Easy!!! This is a representation of what I look and feel like when steam is discussed...... And why the fucking goddamn piece of fuck A is in there........ |
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Posted: 2/18/2018 11:11:44 PM EDT
[#5]
STEAM is a stupid acronym. Hard sciences do NOT belong in the same category as the arts. The problem we have today is that here are too many liberal arts schools that take Uncle Sugar's money to churn out liberal arts majors who become a drain on society and our ability to technologically outproduce our competitors.
I do NOT believe that we would be lost without the arts. I also do NOT believe that without artists, all our shit would look boring. Form follows function. Sales follow appeals to one's senses. If you do not think this is so, tell me which competitor won the F-35 contract, the one with a nice looking airplane or the one that had a butt-ugly guppy of a plane. Both were equally capable and the ugly one probably would have cost less. But, no aviator wants to jump in to an ugly aircraft. They want it to look as sexy as they perceive themselves to be. Art appeals to those who have disposable income. Ferrari wouldn't exist were this not so, as nice as most of their cars look. Same applies to iToys. |
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Posted: 2/18/2018 11:14:58 PM EDT
[#6]
STEM = technicians who obey those with vision.
A = those with vision. 
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Posted: 2/18/2018 11:18:08 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
To me it seems that the focus should be on STEM Adding Arts into STEM only seems to drag it down. Full employment for art majors. |
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Posted: 2/18/2018 11:20:01 PM EDT
[#8]
A doesn't exist. It's fake.
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Posted: 2/18/2018 11:20:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Life imitates art.
Your car, your iphone, putting a man on the moon.... all inspired by someone's imagination and creative work. The idea that STEM exists in any meaningful way without STEAM is ludicrous. 
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Posted: 2/18/2018 11:24:46 PM EDT
[#10]
So little commie hippies can get an education as well?
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Posted: 2/18/2018 11:34:02 PM EDT
[#11]
I think it belongs. Not many would understand the technicalities of digital art and animation. I.E. working at Pixar, EA using Maya, 3D Studio etc.
Video games alone are a massive challenge to make. Traditional arts are not even considered as qualifiers in that arena because of tools like photoshop and Corel paint. You can spend years working in Maya and still learn things, the shader system alone could be a college degree. Not sure what you guys call it, but it's art not many can do. |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 12:00:18 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Beat me too it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Beat me too it. "Main stem stop wow." |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 12:03:52 AM EDT
[#13]
You will not disrespect the Arts. Blade at 45
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Posted: 2/19/2018 12:30:50 AM EDT
[#14]
My kid goes to a Charter School that is Steam. Stem only is hard to find now that it’s all steam.. Initially I also mocked the “A”
I’m an engineer with very little “A” Then I thought about some of the people I work with and respect. I work with several very smart people, engineers and scientists. A majority of them are also talented musicians. There must be some data to suggest a correlation. I don’t feel my life is lacking artistry by who knows |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 1:04:32 AM EDT
[#15]
I think arts education is important, great and wonderful.
But trying to attach arts to STEM is like water-filter manufacturers trying to get into a conference of screwdriver, hex-key and socket wrench makers. “Yes, water filters are important... but please fuck off down the road. This isn’t for you.” Besides, STEM is about these students getting a job when they grow up. Arts jobs don’t actually... um... yeah. |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 1:17:18 AM EDT
[#16]
“If I were not a physicist, I would probably be a musician. I often think in music. I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music.” -- Albert Einstein
Check out this award-winning short "Donald Duck: Mathmagic land (DISNEY)" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJgkaU08VvY |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 1:26:17 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you ever hear STEAM, slap it down and point out just how stupid it is. There is no point of STEM if you include art. It's like the sex's. Males are excluded from the definition of female and vice versa. Wait.......I may be off point there..... |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 8:53:15 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
To me it seems that the focus should be on STEM Adding Arts into STEM only seems to drag it down. STEM is the product of intense study, hard work, & brain power that builds nations... STEAM is what emanates from a pile of bullsh*t!!!! |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 8:58:10 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My kid goes to a Charter School that is Steam. Stem only is hard to find now that it’s all steam.. Initially I also mocked the “A” I’m an engineer with very little “A” Then I thought about some of the people I work with and respect. I work with several very smart people, engineers and scientists. A majority of them are also talented musicians. There must be some data to suggest a correlation. I don’t feel my life is lacking artistry by who knows |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 8:58:47 AM EDT
[#20]
STEM is not STEM because "STEM is essential and nothing else is." If that was the case, it would include Grammar, Logic/Rhetoric, Writing/Composition, and much more. STEM is STEM because (1) it is quantifiable, data-driven, and objective, and (2) it attracts people with a certain way of thinking. Art is not quantifiable, data-driven, or objective, nor does Art attract people with the same way of thinking as STEM. This is not to denigrate Art by comparison. So, including Art in STEM to make it STEAM is an attempt to delegitimize STEM by those who seek to tear down Western Civilization.
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Posted: 2/19/2018 11:00:54 AM EDT
[#21]
Because they wanted the acronym to be meaningless.
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Posted: 2/19/2018 11:24:33 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
To me it seems that the focus should be on STEM Adding Arts into STEM only seems to drag it down. (No, I didn't read the whole thread first.) |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 11:26:16 AM EDT
[#23]
Nothing magic about STEM degrees. You all will be working for accountants anyway.
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Posted: 2/19/2018 12:50:18 PM EDT
[#24]
Why is the A in there ¿
A stands for inclusiveness 
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Posted: 2/19/2018 12:56:25 PM EDT
[#25]
When Arts can pay as much as the others then they can add. But I don't think that will ever happen.
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Posted: 2/19/2018 1:22:21 PM EDT
[#26]
Huh, and to think i was having flashbacks to reading steam tables in thermodynamics.
Yes, there is a need for imagination and an artistic touch to good engineering and design. But it's a small aspect of the larger problem. |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 1:26:52 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
STEM wasn't inclusive. The 'A' had to be added so the thinking-challenged wouldn't feel left out. Why A? Cause feels. |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 1:28:09 PM EDT
[#28]
Our town of ~5k people just approved a $25M improvement to our three ~60 year old schools including a significant emphasis on STEAM.
The A being AGRICULTURE. We're building new tech-ed spaces ground up, and allowing the Arts to have the old crappy spaces. |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 1:40:38 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Our town of ~5k people just approved a $25M improvement to our three ~60 year old schools including a significant emphasis on STEAM. The A being AGRICULTURE. We're building new tech-ed spaces ground up, and allowing the Arts to have the old crappy spaces. 
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Posted: 2/19/2018 4:13:34 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Google human factors or ergonomics, that along with making a product proportional and beautiful is my day in day out. The principles that govern those things are based on science and math like any engineering principle. The arrogance, indifference, and ignorance of engineers just make shit harder than it has to be. Haveing an engineer tell me that it's unimportant what handle a $12,000 luxury appliance has is just silly. All of the work that engineer put in doesn't mean shit if the product looks like a bunch of engineers tacked on an off the shelf handle and half assed the gaps because it makes their life easier. Ignore and bilittle art at your own risk if you're engineering on human centered products, your competitors thank you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Meanwhile... industrial designers are over in the corner laughing their asses off while engineers are getting butt hurt about art getting added to their nerd club. It takes a team to develop a product; designers, engineers, manufacturing, distribution, marketing, and sales... all working together to succeed. Art and creativity is part of humanity; if art is irrelevant then throw out your furniture, your books, you kitchen appliances, whatever good looking car you have in the garage... art exists in every single one of those products The arrogance, indifference, and ignorance of engineers just make shit harder than it has to be. Haveing an engineer tell me that it's unimportant what handle a $12,000 luxury appliance has is just silly. All of the work that engineer put in doesn't mean shit if the product looks like a bunch of engineers tacked on an off the shelf handle and half assed the gaps because it makes their life easier. Ignore and bilittle art at your own risk if you're engineering on human centered products, your competitors thank you. *actually engineering and psychology |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 4:23:26 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Human factors and ergonomics were in the engineering* department where I went to school. Paintings, sculptures and theater have nothing to do with it. *actually engineering and psychology |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 4:31:19 PM EDT
[#32]
We do this one on Tuesdays.
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Posted: 2/19/2018 4:42:11 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
To me it seems that the focus should be on STEM Adding Arts into STEM only seems to drag it down. They can flap all they want, it's not more a thing than whatever new dozen made up gender pronouns they're pushing this week. |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 4:47:45 PM EDT
[#34]
I don’t think anyone actually feels the design, art, look, etc. of something is worthless.
A brilliant artist with a degree in engineering and eye for design is a fantastic asset. What people think is worthless is a bunch of people with 97 IQs with meager artistic skills but degrees in art with middle school level algebra done in college meeting their math requirement being counted in as STEM by adding an A. That’s how you end up with tachometers that look great, but with a 500rpm wide needle with the scale in the middle of the needle instead of at the point that an actual engineer or driver would know is worthless. |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 4:48:11 PM EDT
[#35]
So if its F the arts, does that make FARTs?
Its STEM, period. The A are the useless electives I was forced to take to keep the Arts profs employed when I was getting my Ag degree. |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 4:52:16 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
To me it seems that the focus should be on STEM Adding Arts into STEM only seems to drag it down. |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 4:56:42 PM EDT
[#37]
A being Agriculture is the only use I've ever heard of. Ag definitely fits into the STEM fields.
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Posted: 2/19/2018 4:59:09 PM EDT
[#38]
Kids who learn to play a musical instrument (proficiently) do better in all other courses of study than kids who don't. It enhances the brain's ability to compute. Your doctors and scientists and engineers will be better at their jobs if they have some fine art under their belt.
So yes, as long as it's not finger painting, the acronym should be STEAM. |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 5:00:55 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A being Agriculture is the only use I've ever heard of. Ag definitely fits into the STEM fields. Seems like they're already part of STEM. |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 5:06:39 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tell that to Apple. People buy design as much as they buy function. Art is important. But not in the same qunatity as STEM. |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 5:07:02 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's so the 'humanities' crowd doesn't feel microaggressed by the science nerds. |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 5:20:48 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Kids who learn to play a musical instrument (proficiently) do better in all other courses of study than kids who don't. It enhances the brain's ability to compute. Your doctors and scientists and engineers will be better at their jobs if they have some fine art under their belt. So yes, as long as it's not finger painting, the acronym should be STEAM. Taking the A out of STEAM is not saying F the Arts. |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 5:25:37 PM EDT
[#43]
There is no STEAM. It was an idea that they tried as a way to invalidate the differences between the value of different degrees. Thankfully it never caught on.
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Posted: 2/19/2018 5:30:52 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, then your engineering department was technically STEAM. As those are the A in STEAM. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Human factors and ergonomics were in the engineering* department where I went to school. Paintings, sculptures and theater have nothing to do with it. *actually engineering and psychology This is both an IE and PSYC class and used to also be listed as an AVI* class back in the day. Like this: https://ise.illinois.edu/courses/profile/IE340 *aviation |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 5:31:21 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bingo. Science, Technology, and Math are all closely related. Art? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Funding. The “arts” didn’t want to get left out of the money pool. Science, Technology, and Math are all closely related. Art? |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 5:35:08 PM EDT
[#46]
Playing devil's advocate:
Art can foster creativity, which is useful in just about any endevour. However, it should not be the focus imo. |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 5:36:10 PM EDT
[#47]
Lots of STEMs get a masters in A, never seen an A get a masters in a STEM, coincidence or the cold hard truth.
Had an HR lady that pointed to her business degree and said that engineers think they are in a little fraternity, "I'll have you know, I worked every bit as hard for that degree as any of them did". I managed to keep my laughter internal. Dumb cunt with many chips on her shoulder. |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 5:42:48 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
To me it seems that the focus should be on STEM Adding Arts into STEM only seems to drag it down. |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 5:45:30 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
STEM = technicians who obey those with vision. A = those with vision. |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 5:47:33 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
STEM = technicians who obey those with vision. A = those with vision. 
Few people really have vision. Yeah, a few artists will do well, but the vast majority will be average and averages artists have to get real jobs. They generally wind up with shitty jobs that pay poorly. A STEM degrees will get you a job that pays well even if you are average. Our universities crank out too many A's for the actually demand. Until they stop doing that, there will be "do you want fries with that" type of comments. |
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