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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:17:15 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL....you lost me in your rambling diatribe when you claimed most of us had "never killed anything with either", and are "pussies afraid of recoil." I honestly can't even guess at how many rounds I have fired or how many critters I have killed with a 12 gauge. I used to burn through a case of 12 gauge ammo a month. A 12 gauge doesn't intimidate me at all. Nobody would argue that a 12 gauge slug , 00, or #4 buck is pretty effective. If that's what you want to use, go ahead. I don't care. But at least be honest in the conversation. The recoil of a shotgun exists, whether you think I'm a pussy or not (and I don't give a fiddlers fuck if you do). An AR is superior in recoil control. An AR is superior when it comes to reloading. Ergonomics. Reliability. Accuracy. Should I go on? The funniest thing shotgun guys preach is "versatility". Horse Shit. Beyond 30 yards and your buckshot effectiveness diminishes bigly. Slugs can be accurate, but a fighting shotgun isn't a designated slug/deer gun, is it? I live in the middle of nowhere. The Sherriff won't get here until rigor mortis starts to set in. If something stupid happens, I'm on my own. 8 shots in a shotgun, or an AR with a pile of magazines? It's a pretty simple answer. If you think your only possible threat is 1 bad guy within 20 yards, I guess you have found what works for you. Good luck  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Argue with me... Fuck your meme... lets do this.. LOL....you lost me in your rambling diatribe when you claimed most of us had "never killed anything with either", and are "pussies afraid of recoil." I honestly can't even guess at how many rounds I have fired or how many critters I have killed with a 12 gauge. I used to burn through a case of 12 gauge ammo a month. A 12 gauge doesn't intimidate me at all. Nobody would argue that a 12 gauge slug , 00, or #4 buck is pretty effective. If that's what you want to use, go ahead. I don't care. But at least be honest in the conversation. The recoil of a shotgun exists, whether you think I'm a pussy or not (and I don't give a fiddlers fuck if you do). An AR is superior in recoil control. An AR is superior when it comes to reloading. Ergonomics. Reliability. Accuracy. Should I go on? The funniest thing shotgun guys preach is "versatility". Horse Shit. Beyond 30 yards and your buckshot effectiveness diminishes bigly. Slugs can be accurate, but a fighting shotgun isn't a designated slug/deer gun, is it? I live in the middle of nowhere. The Sherriff won't get here until rigor mortis starts to set in. If something stupid happens, I'm on my own. 8 shots in a shotgun, or an AR with a pile of magazines? It's a pretty simple answer. If you think your only possible threat is 1 bad guy within 20 yards, I guess you have found what works for you. Good luck Have a wraparound porch and about 10 of these on it? 
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:23:13 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Calling horseshit on the versatility of the shotgun seems short sighted. What other gun can you shoot dove in the morning, deer in the afternoon, and assholes whenever required? Because trying to use one tool for everything....when you don't have to, is dumb. I own shotguns a'plenty. The 3 events you describe are best served by 3 different guns. If a carpenter shows up with just a Leatherman tool I'm going to send him home. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:25:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have a wraparound porch and about 10 of these on it? https://thememescraps.files.wordpress.com/2020/01/img_0429.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Argue with me... Fuck your meme... lets do this.. LOL....you lost me in your rambling diatribe when you claimed most of us had "never killed anything with either", and are "pussies afraid of recoil." I honestly can't even guess at how many rounds I have fired or how many critters I have killed with a 12 gauge. I used to burn through a case of 12 gauge ammo a month. A 12 gauge doesn't intimidate me at all. Nobody would argue that a 12 gauge slug , 00, or #4 buck is pretty effective. If that's what you want to use, go ahead. I don't care. But at least be honest in the conversation. The recoil of a shotgun exists, whether you think I'm a pussy or not (and I don't give a fiddlers fuck if you do). An AR is superior in recoil control. An AR is superior when it comes to reloading. Ergonomics. Reliability. Accuracy. Should I go on? The funniest thing shotgun guys preach is "versatility". Horse Shit. Beyond 30 yards and your buckshot effectiveness diminishes bigly. Slugs can be accurate, but a fighting shotgun isn't a designated slug/deer gun, is it? I live in the middle of nowhere. The Sherriff won't get here until rigor mortis starts to set in. If something stupid happens, I'm on my own. 8 shots in a shotgun, or an AR with a pile of magazines? It's a pretty simple answer. If you think your only possible threat is 1 bad guy within 20 yards, I guess you have found what works for you. Good luck Have a wraparound porch and about 10 of these on it? https://thememescraps.files.wordpress.com/2020/01/img_0429.jpg Oh heck yes. I need a Roomba Claymore. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:30:08 PM EDT
[#4]
Claymore's suck too..........if you are in front of them~
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:41:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Claymore's suck too..........if you are in front of them~ I only set them up in training. They seem terrifying. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:42:19 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL....you lost me in your rambling diatribe when you claimed most of us had "never killed anything with either", and are "pussies afraid of recoil." I honestly can't even guess at how many rounds I have fired or how many critters I have killed with a 12 gauge. I used to burn through a case of 12 gauge ammo a month. A 12 gauge doesn't intimidate me at all. Nobody would argue that a 12 gauge slug , 00, or #4 buck is pretty effective. If that's what you want to use, go ahead. I don't care. But at least be honest in the conversation. The recoil of a shotgun exists, whether you think I'm a pussy or not (and I don't give a fiddlers fuck if you do). An AR is superior in recoil control. An AR is superior when it comes to reloading. Ergonomics. Reliability. Accuracy. Should I go on? The funniest thing shotgun guys preach is "versatility". Horse Shit. Beyond 30 yards and your buckshot effectiveness diminishes bigly. Slugs can be accurate, but a fighting shotgun isn't a designated slug/deer gun, is it? I live in the middle of nowhere. The Sherriff won't get here until rigor mortis starts to set in. If something stupid happens, I'm on my own. 8 shots in a shotgun, or an AR with a pile of magazines? It's a pretty simple answer. If you think your only possible threat is 1 bad guy within 20 yards, I guess you have found what works for you. Good luck Can you please explain to me a situation that you envision your self need a "pile of magazines" and engaging targets at 20 + yards INSIDE YOUR HOUSE??? This is what you people do not understand... The narrative of needing to be able too was created to insure you will always able too... And I agree with it, it worked.. We convinced enough people to think that way, so much so they made a butt loads of youtube videos and posts on the internet that Im sitting here arguing with "one of us" over it... |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:42:58 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Claymore's suck too..........if you are in front of them~ Claymores Suck If you are Behind them too ...  BIGGER_HAMMER 
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:44:01 PM EDT
[#8]
 This is my HD gun. Fight me. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:48:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I want to know what is the largest size buckshot that would not penetrate the exterior walls of my neighbor's house about 100 yards away, after a) exiting through the walls of my house if fired indoors in their direction, or b) fired directly at their house from 100 yards away. That would be my #1 motivation in using a shotgun: I would know what is a safe direction in terms of where my family is in my house, but working out what is in the long distance behind the bad guy in a stressful situation would be hard. I figure #4 buck at the least is going to be neighbor friendly and I'm wondering if I can go up to #1 buck or even 00. ETA, the assumption here is it's night and they are inside their home, probably sleeping. @martin248 Old Painless & the Box O' Truth https://www.theboxotruth.com/ Member here set up dummy sheetrock & 2x4 wall panels & shot them with a variety of shotgun, pistol & rifle loads. enjoy! BIGGER_HAMMER
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:49:11 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:50:14 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/47980/E44DA883-FD9F-4D11-AFCF-B0625AF3C0DE-2154724.jpg This is my HD gun. Fight me. Y u 1-8 for home defense |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:51:44 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Y u 1-8 for home defense Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/47980/E44DA883-FD9F-4D11-AFCF-B0625AF3C0DE-2154724.jpg This is my HD gun. Fight me. Y u 1-8 for home defense Look again. 
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:53:29 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can stand there with a Super Soaker filled with piss and I still wouldn't want to shot by it. Double-ought buck is gonna take more than a shower and a change of clothes to recover from .... |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:54:58 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can you please explain to me a situation that you envision your self need a "pile of magazines" and engaging targets at 20 + yards INSIDE YOUR HOUSE??? This is what you people do not understand... The narrative of needing to be able too was created to insure you will always able too... And I agree with it, it worked.. We convinced enough people to think that way, so much so they made a butt loads of youtube videos and posts on the internet that Im sitting here arguing with "one of us" over it... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: LOL....you lost me in your rambling diatribe when you claimed most of us had "never killed anything with either", and are "pussies afraid of recoil." I honestly can't even guess at how many rounds I have fired or how many critters I have killed with a 12 gauge. I used to burn through a case of 12 gauge ammo a month. A 12 gauge doesn't intimidate me at all. Nobody would argue that a 12 gauge slug , 00, or #4 buck is pretty effective. If that's what you want to use, go ahead. I don't care. But at least be honest in the conversation. The recoil of a shotgun exists, whether you think I'm a pussy or not (and I don't give a fiddlers fuck if you do). An AR is superior in recoil control. An AR is superior when it comes to reloading. Ergonomics. Reliability. Accuracy. Should I go on? The funniest thing shotgun guys preach is "versatility". Horse Shit. Beyond 30 yards and your buckshot effectiveness diminishes bigly. Slugs can be accurate, but a fighting shotgun isn't a designated slug/deer gun, is it? I live in the middle of nowhere. The Sherriff won't get here until rigor mortis starts to set in. If something stupid happens, I'm on my own. 8 shots in a shotgun, or an AR with a pile of magazines? It's a pretty simple answer. If you think your only possible threat is 1 bad guy within 20 yards, I guess you have found what works for you. Good luck Can you please explain to me a situation that you envision your self need a "pile of magazines" and engaging targets at 20 + yards INSIDE YOUR HOUSE??? This is what you people do not understand... The narrative of needing to be able too was created to insure you will always able too... And I agree with it, it worked.. We convinced enough people to think that way, so much so they made a butt loads of youtube videos and posts on the internet that Im sitting here arguing with "one of us" over it... What does "inside your house" have to do with it, other than to validate your choice of weapon? I think you and I live in 2 different environments. Why would I NOT have a good stash of magazines? I don't think I'll ever need them, but loading while dumb shit is happening is a pretty bad plan. I don't think my woodstove is ever going to burn my cabin down but I have a fire extinguisher sitting next to it. I don't expect to cut my leg with the chainsaw, but when I'm cutting firewood a throw a tourniquet in my pocket. You might live in some awesomely safe, predictable place. I don't. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:55:17 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look again. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/47980/E44DA883-FD9F-4D11-AFCF-B0625AF3C0DE-2154724.jpg This is my HD gun. Fight me. Y u 1-8 for home defense Look again. I see the RMR Ace RMRs everything lol |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:59:42 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 2/11/2022 11:01:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because trying to use one tool for everything....when you don't have to, is dumb. I own shotguns a'plenty. The 3 events you describe are best served by 3 different guns. If a carpenter shows up with just a Leatherman tool I'm going to send him home. again, you show how ignorant you are.. In your situation, the AR-15/556 would be the leatherman.. One gun, one caliber to do many jobs, were as the shotgun needs different barrels, chokes, shot(or slugs) to handle many tasks at many ranges, properly... ya know like the different tools a carpenter would need to though out the day.. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 11:13:34 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: again, you show how ignorant you are.. In your situation, the AR-15/556 would be the leatherman.. One gun, one caliber to do many jobs, were as the shotgun needs different barrels, chokes, shot(or slugs) to handle many tasks at many ranges, properly... ya know like the different tools a carpenter would need to though out the day.. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Because trying to use one tool for everything....when you don't have to, is dumb. I own shotguns a'plenty. The 3 events you describe are best served by 3 different guns. If a carpenter shows up with just a Leatherman tool I'm going to send him home. again, you show how ignorant you are.. In your situation, the AR-15/556 would be the leatherman.. One gun, one caliber to do many jobs, were as the shotgun needs different barrels, chokes, shot(or slugs) to handle many tasks at many ranges, properly... ya know like the different tools a carpenter would need to though out the day.. Hot take. Chokes don't fundamentally change a goddamn thing. 5.56mm is more versatile. Also, multiple intruders are a thing. Kyle Rittenhouse would be dead if he'd been using a shotgun and that was three guys at contact distance. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 11:16:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: again, you show how ignorant you are.. In your situation, the AR-15/556 would be the leatherman.. One gun, one caliber to do many jobs, were as the shotgun needs different barrels, chokes, shot(or slugs) to handle many tasks at many ranges, properly... ya know like the different tools a carpenter would need to though out the day.. Ummmm...nope. My 5.56 AR is a self defense rifle. That's it. Not a dove-turkey-pheasant-deer-bad guy gun. I have other, more appropriate weapons for that. Not anywhere, in all of this conversation have I said a 5.56 AR is a do everything rifle. I could certainly kill a deer with it, but it isn't the right tool. The only consistent crossover would be coyotes and groundhogs. My 2 main AR's are perfect for that. I also have 2 AR's in 450 Bushmaster. Those are designated hunting AR's. I've killed a bear and 9 whitetails with the 450 Bushmaster. Try reading a bit before you post and start calling folks ignorant. And by all means....if a one gun approach is what you seek, go for it. I don't care what you do. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 11:20:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because trying to use one tool for everything....when you don't have to, is dumb. I own shotguns a'plenty. The 3 events you describe are best served by 3 different guns. If a carpenter shows up with just a Leatherman tool I'm going to send him home. being dumb doesn’t mean it’s not versatile |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 11:30:12 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Claymore's suck too..........if you are in front of them~ If you're behind them without cover too. They'll kill in all directions, they're just more effective from the front. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 11:31:42 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Double-ought buck is gonna take more than a shower and a change of clothes to recover from .... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You can stand there with a Super Soaker filled with piss and I still wouldn't want to shot by it. Double-ought buck is gonna take more than a shower and a change of clothes to recover from .... Especially 18 pellets at a time(10 gauge, 3.5 inch magnum). |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 11:34:30 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I knew a dude that took a halberd to the head and survived. Just a few stitches but it may have induced dain bramage as he just kind of disappeared from the social circle not too long after that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: there was a reason we were trained to shoot them to the ground. Thats because people dont die unless they feel like it. Ive seen people hit with 30mm keep fighting, and a dude who shot himself in the foot with a Makarov fall over and die. People are weird, keep shooting them until they stop, with whatever it is. Take a look at what Phineas Gage survived sometime-and that was before good medical care was available. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 11:38:18 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Calling horseshit on the versatility of the shotgun seems short sighted. What other gun can you shoot dove in the morning, deer in the afternoon, and assholes whenever required? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: LOL....you lost me in your rambling diatribe when you claimed most of us had "never killed anything with either", and are "pussies afraid of recoil." I honestly can't even guess at how many rounds I have fired or how many critters I have killed with a 12 gauge. I used to burn through a case of 12 gauge ammo a month. A 12 gauge doesn't intimidate me at all. Nobody would argue that a 12 gauge slug , 00, or #4 buck is pretty effective. If that's what you want to use, go ahead. I don't care. But at least be honest in the conversation. The recoil of a shotgun exists, whether you think I'm a pussy or not (and I don't give a fiddlers fuck if you do). An AR is superior in recoil control. An AR is superior when it comes to reloading. Ergonomics. Reliability. Accuracy. Should I go on? The funniest thing shotgun guys preach is "versatility". Horse Shit. Beyond 30 yards and your buckshot effectiveness diminishes bigly. Slugs can be accurate, but a fighting shotgun isn't a designated slug/deer gun, is it? I live in the middle of nowhere. The Sherriff won't get here until rigor mortis starts to set in. If something stupid happens, I'm on my own. 8 shots in a shotgun, or an AR with a pile of magazines? It's a pretty simple answer. If you think your only possible threat is 1 bad guy within 20 yards, I guess you have found what works for you. Good luck Calling horseshit on the versatility of the shotgun seems short sighted. What other gun can you shoot dove in the morning, deer in the afternoon, and assholes whenever required? He's not calling bullshit on the shotgun's versatility. He's calling it on using versatility as a primary reason to employ one as a first choice home defense weapon. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 11:40:03 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ummmm...nope. My 5.56 AR is a self defense rifle. That's it. Not a dove-turkey-pheasant-deer-bad guy gun. I have other, more appropriate weapons for that. Not anywhere, in all of this conversation have I said a 5.56 AR is a do everything rifle. I could certainly kill a deer with it, but it isn't the right tool. The only consistent crossover would be coyotes and groundhogs. My 2 main AR's are perfect for that. I also have 2 AR's in 450 Bushmaster. Those are designated hunting AR's. I've killed a bear and 9 whitetails with the 450 Bushmaster. Try reading a bit before you post and start calling folks ignorant. And by all means....if a one gun approach is what you seek, go for it. I don't care what you do. M-lock, key mod, or old school picatinny mount, whats your style? Ill make a shovel that mounts to it just for you.. You seem to enjoy digging... Every rebuttal you generate is more of the same.. You actually think a varmint round is superior to a 12 gauge at close range... Reloads, range, mags, piles of ammo, blah blah blah fuck all of that shit... your not that important... you will never fight off hordes of bad guys.. Again, I agree you should be able too... but that does not change the fact your relying on 30 rounds per mag of what was intended to be, and is still considered a varmint round... |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 11:46:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M-lock, key mod, or old school picatinny mount, whats your style? Ill make a shovel that mounts to it just for you.. You seem to enjoy digging... Every rebuttal you generate is more of the same.. You actually think a varmint round is superior to a 12 gauge at close range... Reloads, range, mags, piles of ammo, blah blah blah fuck all of that shit... your not that important... you will never fight off hordes of bad guys.. Again, I agree you should be able too... but that does not change the fact your relying on 30 rounds per mag of what was intended to be, and is still considered a varmint round... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ummmm...nope. My 5.56 AR is a self defense rifle. That's it. Not a dove-turkey-pheasant-deer-bad guy gun. I have other, more appropriate weapons for that. Not anywhere, in all of this conversation have I said a 5.56 AR is a do everything rifle. I could certainly kill a deer with it, but it isn't the right tool. The only consistent crossover would be coyotes and groundhogs. My 2 main AR's are perfect for that. I also have 2 AR's in 450 Bushmaster. Those are designated hunting AR's. I've killed a bear and 9 whitetails with the 450 Bushmaster. Try reading a bit before you post and start calling folks ignorant. And by all means....if a one gun approach is what you seek, go for it. I don't care what you do. M-lock, key mod, or old school picatinny mount, whats your style? Ill make a shovel that mounts to it just for you.. You seem to enjoy digging... Every rebuttal you generate is more of the same.. You actually think a varmint round is superior to a 12 gauge at close range... Reloads, range, mags, piles of ammo, blah blah blah fuck all of that shit... your not that important... you will never fight off hordes of bad guys.. Again, I agree you should be able too... but that does not change the fact your relying on 30 rounds per mag of what was intended to be, and is still considered a varmint round... Nobody has a problem with you using a shotgun. Odds are you'll never have to use it. If you do use it, odds are it will work very well. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 11:53:08 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M-lock, key mod, or old school picatinny mount, whats your style? Ill make a shovel that mounts to it just for you.. You seem to enjoy digging... Every rebuttal you generate is more of the same.. You actually think a varmint round is superior to a 12 gauge at close range... Reloads, range, mags, piles of ammo, blah blah blah fuck all of that shit... your not that important... you will never fight off hordes of bad guys.. Again, I agree you should be able too... but that does not change the fact your relying on 30 rounds per mag of what was intended to be, and is still considered a varmint round... Holy shit…. You sound frustrated. Just chill. Defend your home however you see fit. I wish you well. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 11:57:31 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agreed that the Shotgun can be THE most versatile gun for a wide variety of uses. If the I could only have ONE gun ... But for just from experience - when it comes to Self Defense & Hunting - I'd stay away from #4 - it can have difficulty with deep enough penetration - I use #1, #00 #0 which all give excellent terminal results. I can understand if you want it for less penetration, but only projectiles that reach deep enough to reach the vitals really matter. BIGGER_HAMMER Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Shotguns are my favorite firearm type. If you load a shotgun with #4 buck, and mag dump it, you are putting over 200 .24 caliber projectiles into the universe in a matter of seconds. It's kind of amazing. And then right after that, you can switch to a different ammo and go duck hunting with the SAME gun the next day. Then turkey season comes up, no worries SAME GUN. Uh-oh, deer season is in. Better grab the SAME GUN. Damn the coyotes are in the yard again. Better get the varmint gun. But guess what, the varmint gun IS ALSO YOUR SHOTGUN. Agreed that the Shotgun can be THE most versatile gun for a wide variety of uses. If the I could only have ONE gun ... But for just from experience - when it comes to Self Defense & Hunting - I'd stay away from #4 - it can have difficulty with deep enough penetration - I use #1, #00 #0 which all give excellent terminal results. I can understand if you want it for less penetration, but only projectiles that reach deep enough to reach the vitals really matter. BIGGER_HAMMER @bigger_hammer Plus #4 is hard to find, and I have read it doesn't pattern great. I would think at house distances it would be OK, especially if you have a small house. If you ever read Point Man by Chief James Watson, he says a lot of good things about #4 buck and a duckbill compensator. But, I don't remember If he had the option for 00, or if #4 was all they were offered. Good book though |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 12:07:13 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryBut the Mini 14 is so inaccurate, you can't hit the side of a barn from 10 feet with it - says every tool on the on the internet who never shot one. Nice shot and nice pig by the way |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 12:09:16 AM EDT
[#30]
My 12 g. Browning A-5 with 10 rounds of buck and ball say otherwise.
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Posted: 2/12/2022 12:09:50 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But the Mini 14 is so inaccurate, you can't hit the side of a barn from 10 feet with it - says every tool on the on the internet who never shot one. Nice shot and nice pig by the way I've never actually shot one-despite having owned one. Got it in trade and got into a bad spot money wise before I had time to shoot it-that gun was the least important one in my collection. |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 12:11:55 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Kyle Rittenhouse would be dead if he'd been using a shotgun and that was three guys at contact distance.  My M4 holds 7+1. Why and how would this have been insufficient? |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 12:16:45 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My M4 holds 7+1. Why and how would this have been insufficient? Should be 7+1+1. |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 12:16:58 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you ever tried to load an M1 with your penis? Who doesn't load their M1 that way?
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Posted: 2/12/2022 12:17:22 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never actually shot one-despite having owned one. Got it in trade and got into a bad spot money wise before I had time to shoot it-that gun was the least important one in my collection. You should have tried it, it may have changed your mind. 
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Posted: 2/12/2022 12:21:18 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I've never actually shot one-despite having owned one. Got it in trade and got into a bad spot money wise before I had time to shoot it-that gun was the least important one in my collection. You should have tried it, it may have changed your mind. https://i.imgur.com/RF8LCQ2.jpg I didn't even know they're considered inaccurate at the time. I do want to try one, a friend of mine got one for stupid cheap in the big Walmart clearance(I got my .45-70 that round). He hasn't shot it yet but we plan to fix that. 
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Posted: 2/12/2022 12:25:01 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hot take. Chokes don't fundamentally change a goddamn thing. 5.56mm is more versatile. Also, multiple intruders are a thing. Kyle Rittenhouse would be dead if he'd been using a shotgun and that was three guys at contact distance. All he would have done is racked it, and his attackers would have fled. |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 12:28:35 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: While buckshot is preferable, birdshot should never be underestimated. Some will say that it just causes "superficial flesh wounds," but many a man has died to birdshot. If not from the GSW, then from infection. If the docs don't get out every single bead, assuming they're using lead, you could be looking at a case of gangrene. Nasty stuff. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Pretty sure infantry isn't issued shotguns due to international treaties. Bullshit While buckshot is preferable, birdshot should never be underestimated. Some will say that it just causes "superficial flesh wounds," but many a man has died to birdshot. If not from the GSW, then from infection. If the docs don't get out every single bead, assuming they're using lead, you could be looking at a case of gangrene. Nasty stuff.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 12:29:15 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn't even know they're considered inaccurate at the time. I do want to try one, a friend of mine got one for stupid cheap in the big Walmart clearance(I got my .45-70 that round). He hasn't shot it yet but we plan to fix that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I've never actually shot one-despite having owned one. Got it in trade and got into a bad spot money wise before I had time to shoot it-that gun was the least important one in my collection. You should have tried it, it may have changed your mind. https://i.imgur.com/RF8LCQ2.jpg I didn't even know they're considered inaccurate at the time. I do want to try one, a friend of mine got one for stupid cheap in the big Walmart clearance(I got my .45-70 that round). He hasn't shot it yet but we plan to fix that. I don’t do any paper punching except sighting in scopes, they’re fun and they work very well for my uses. |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 12:30:31 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AR’s are better, but a shotgun will fuck your day up in a big way. People argue 5.56/7.62x39 and 9mm/45ACP stopping power. A shotgun laughs.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bpu6XgtS02wSomething something chunk of shit something something throws that chunk of shit on the floor. |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 12:32:35 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Pretty sure infantry isn't issued shotguns due to international treaties. Bullshit While buckshot is preferable, birdshot should never be underestimated. Some will say that it just causes "superficial flesh wounds," but many a man has died to birdshot. If not from the GSW, then from infection. If the docs don't get out every single bead, assuming they're using lead, you could be looking at a case of gangrene. Nasty stuff. Looks like it worked pretty good to me, I bet he didn’t hang around to get another one. |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 12:33:04 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @bigger_hammer Plus #4 is hard to find, and I have read it doesn't pattern great. I would think at house distances it would be OK, especially if you have a small house. If you ever read Point Man by Chief James Watson, he says a lot of good things about #4 buck and a duckbill compensator. But, I don't remember If he had the option for 00, or if #4 was all they were offered. Good book though @Idpapaperoperator the Seals had some bad ass shotguns in the Vietnam. They ran the Ithaca 37 (old school slamfire) and the surface warfare group developed a unique choke called the Duck bill that was supposed to spread the pattern out in a fan...   Might check out You Tube Shotgun buckshot Gel Tests.  Stuff You Should Know About Buckshot [Part 1]  More Stuff You Should Know About Buckshot [Part 2] The #4 is effective VERY Close, but as distance opens up, the lethality drops off. I really like the Federal Flight Control "Tactical" loads - #1, #0 & #00 they are hard to find, but are about the best factory made 12 gauge load for defense. Mind you that most "budget" Buckshot is a 20-30 yard optimized before patterns open up beyond minute of man. The Federal with the right choke extends to 40-50 yards with all pellets ON a silloutte in my patterning. Every shotgun is DIFFERENT - so you need to SHOOT your GUN & LOAD to see what results YOU get. BIGGER_HAMMER
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Posted: 2/12/2022 12:34:28 AM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 2/12/2022 12:39:51 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My M4 holds 7+1. Why and how would this have been insufficient? You are responsible for every projectile. I don't think he'd be free if a few dozen pellets hit some randos Glock boi would be an amputee though |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 12:46:35 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryI need to get me one of those old school SF fore ends. |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 12:47:01 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are responsible for every projectile. I don't think he'd be free if a few dozen pellets hit some randos Glock boi would be an amputee though Clarence Boddicker Agrees..  BIGGER_HAMMER
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Posted: 2/12/2022 1:20:12 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Idpapaperoperator the Seals had some bad ass shotguns in the Vietnam. They ran the Ithaca 37 (old school slamfire) and the surface warfare group developed a unique choke called the Duck bill that was supposed to spread the pattern out in a fan... https://content.osgnetworks.tv/firearmsnews/content/photos/Duckbill-ShotSpreader-1-840.jpg https://rs2vietnam.com/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php/weapons/us_weap_m37_duckbill.png Might check out You Tube Shotgun buckshot Gel Tests. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3haq5BFh7qs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf4i8gRTsJsThe #4 is effective VERY Close, but as distance opens up, the lethality drops off. I really like the Federal Flight Control "Tactical" loads - #1, #0 & #00 they are hard to find, but are about the best factory made 12 gauge load for defense. Mind you that most "budget" Buckshot is a 20-30 yard optimized before patterns open up beyond minute of man. The Federal with the right choke extends to 40-50 yards with all pellets ON a silloutte in my patterning. Every shotgun is DIFFERENT - so you need to SHOOT your GUN & LOAD to see what results YOU get. BIGGER_HAMMER Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @bigger_hammer Plus #4 is hard to find, and I have read it doesn't pattern great. I would think at house distances it would be OK, especially if you have a small house. If you ever read Point Man by Chief James Watson, he says a lot of good things about #4 buck and a duckbill compensator. But, I don't remember If he had the option for 00, or if #4 was all they were offered. Good book though @Idpapaperoperator the Seals had some bad ass shotguns in the Vietnam. They ran the Ithaca 37 (old school slamfire) and the surface warfare group developed a unique choke called the Duck bill that was supposed to spread the pattern out in a fan... https://content.osgnetworks.tv/firearmsnews/content/photos/Duckbill-ShotSpreader-1-840.jpg https://rs2vietnam.com/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php/weapons/us_weap_m37_duckbill.png Might check out You Tube Shotgun buckshot Gel Tests. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3haq5BFh7qs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf4i8gRTsJsThe #4 is effective VERY Close, but as distance opens up, the lethality drops off. I really like the Federal Flight Control "Tactical" loads - #1, #0 & #00 they are hard to find, but are about the best factory made 12 gauge load for defense. Mind you that most "budget" Buckshot is a 20-30 yard optimized before patterns open up beyond minute of man. The Federal with the right choke extends to 40-50 yards with all pellets ON a silloutte in my patterning. Every shotgun is DIFFERENT - so you need to SHOOT your GUN & LOAD to see what results YOU get. BIGGER_HAMMER I need to get some federal flight control loads. Most of what I have is the cheaper buckshot in 00, 000, and #4. I'll make sure to check out those videos, thank you! |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 1:26:56 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @martin248 Old Painless & the Box O' Truth https://www.theboxotruth.com/ Member here set up dummy sheetrock & 2x4 wall panels & shot them with a variety of shotgun, pistol & rifle loads. enjoy! BIGGER_HAMMER Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I want to know what is the largest size buckshot that would not penetrate the exterior walls of my neighbor's house about 100 yards away, after a) exiting through the walls of my house if fired indoors in their direction, or b) fired directly at their house from 100 yards away. That would be my #1 motivation in using a shotgun: I would know what is a safe direction in terms of where my family is in my house, but working out what is in the long distance behind the bad guy in a stressful situation would be hard. I figure #4 buck at the least is going to be neighbor friendly and I'm wondering if I can go up to #1 buck or even 00. ETA, the assumption here is it's night and they are inside their home, probably sleeping. @martin248 Old Painless & the Box O' Truth https://www.theboxotruth.com/ Member here set up dummy sheetrock & 2x4 wall panels & shot them with a variety of shotgun, pistol & rifle loads. enjoy! BIGGER_HAMMER Is he still around and kicking? |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 1:41:41 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These threads really bring out the morons in the gun community... 556 vs 12 gauge under 20 yards is the absolute definition of retarded... Most of you dont even realize why you think the way you do, and its comical.. Most of you probably have never killed anything with either and rely on "facts" on the internet and just puke your "knowledge" all over these threads... I dare say most of you that are against a shotgun are just flat out pussies who would rather pull their finger a few extra times to avoid recoil... The fact of the matter is, a 12 gauge round, be it slug or shot delivers a much larger and lethal payload per shot (excluding bird shot)... There is a reason why you never hear of a home invasion were some dude fights off 25 bag guys like a bad 90s action movie, Nor would you the average idiot be able to fend off 25, let alone 5 armed people at once... Your using a scenario that will never exist to justify things you dont "need"... And this is the issue... After the AWB, people have been (and rightfully so) trying to make the AR15, (and the 556) into a common use, solves every problem sorta thing and it worked... Too well, because you now have idiots in our own community trying to compare 556 to 12 gauge in home defense situations, hell we even had one moron here asking why its ok to shot a elk with a bow, yet not a 223/556... Think about that....It worked, and dont get me wrong Im not mad about it, hell I'll shout off the roof tops that a AR15 is better for everything under the sun just to make sure they dont get banned again, but deep down I know that inside 15 yards, Shotgun still wins.. You forgot about all the arfcom millionaires, the hallway to their bedroom is a good 30-40 yards. |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 1:48:11 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL....you lost me in your rambling diatribe when you claimed most of us had "never killed anything with either", and are "pussies afraid of recoil." I honestly can't even guess at how many rounds I have fired or how many critters I have killed with a 12 gauge. I used to burn through a case of 12 gauge ammo a month. A 12 gauge doesn't intimidate me at all. Nobody would argue that a 12 gauge slug , 00, or #4 buck is pretty effective. If that's what you want to use, go ahead. I don't care. But at least be honest in the conversation. The recoil of a shotgun exists, whether you think I'm a pussy or not (and I don't give a fiddlers fuck if you do). An AR is superior in recoil control. An AR is superior when it comes to reloading. Ergonomics. Reliability. Accuracy. Should I go on? The funniest thing shotgun guys preach is "versatility". Horse Shit. Beyond 30 yards and your buckshot effectiveness diminishes bigly. Slugs can be accurate, but a fighting shotgun isn't a designated slug/deer gun, is it? I live in the middle of nowhere. The Sherriff won't get here until rigor mortis starts to set in. If something stupid happens, I'm on my own. 8 shots in a shotgun, or an AR with a pile of magazines? It's a pretty simple answer. If you think your only possible threat is 1 bad guy within 20 yards, I guess you have found what works for you. Good luck 30 yards and beyond sounds more like a murder charge instead of a self defense victory. |
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