You are most certainly correct. It’s not that they can say you used too much AC or something else. They just say you’ve used too much power. And cut you off.

But they're not using smart meters to cut off the high-tension lines to those remote ass desert towns with 35 people in them.

They send a radio signal out over their network to your meter. Each meter has its own ID. Theres a relay inside that opens = no power. Pay your bill online, they send another signal, literally a minute or 2 later = you have power. No one comes to pull the meter like in the old days.

Aclara I-210+c here.  I'm annoyed because they replaced an Itron that I could read, with whatever the hell this thing does.

I've got 24 CTs on branch circuits and the kind of analytics you'd need to get good data from just the meter, even with sub-second accuracy would be pretty impressive.

No it was the government who said that the power company was on the hook for what in the other 49 states don't have to do. The power company is responsible for every linear inch of their hundreds of thousands of miles of cable and if an act of God (legal term) causing them to break and spark a fire they're on the hook for all damages. That's a level of risk no company on the planet should have to accept and not a single insurance company in the known universe would issue the power company insurance against that level of loss.

It was very likely the power company tried to abandoned those hundreds and hundreds of customers out in their single-wide trailer cities and instead shuts off the power when the lines are most likely to break and start fires.

I can read my neighbors smart reader with a SDR.

I can't read mine, because its a newer model, and encryption was employed.  I read the specs on my model to verify this.

It's a big club, and you ain't in it.

Brb in a few. Checking on a friend’s rental im doing work on.

https://www.mihagrabner.com/post/how-to-recognize-appliances-from-smart-meter-data-using-ai

Not just hundreds and hundreds... potentially very large areas. Already into the thousands and thousands.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/california-wildfires/article/PG-E-issues-unprecedented-power-shutoff-watch-for-14498454.php

you are wrong .. actually...

So we've reached the end of discussions with you and you want to resort to personal attacks and insults?

How long have you been working in network security?

I’m a transmission system operator. These threads are always next level fucking retarded.

So my one sentence dismissal was an adequate summary of the paper you posted.   Thanks!  I'm aware of the "state of the art."

Things progress. Here's a hint. If you have concerns with the power company shutting off your power, then maybe it's time to think about using that power to charge batteries, or capacitors.

You could run off of solar during the day, and batteries at night. You can also run off of wind, or propane, or diesel, or even a water wheel. Smart devices of today consume much less power. Heck, you could go completely off grid.

But then, you would stick out like a sore thumb, and end up on a watch list anyway. Yeah, they're doing this. Just got to be smarter than the system is all.

Which is why they shed residential circuits first. Smart meters would keep more of your neighbors alive.

There are a handful of agencies that utilities answer too. NERC/FERC... your state utility commision... SERC for your area.

All electrical threads in GD are retarded. Its stuff like that what makes this place so fun!

Uhhh the name on my check aka the utility but ultimately it’s up to us to control the grid.

Im not in network security, im in power engineering. Its not so much of an insult as it is me pointing out your mindset is counter to your field. "Nobody would want this information, what would they even do with it" when we literally pay the federal government to monitor our networks for additional security.

Multiply that by tens of thousands of meters and there needs to be a large revenue stream to pay for all that data gathering. I don't think anyone is exploiting that data yet, I was "unto and touching" pre-COVID but the IT training big tent circuses shut down during COVID and then I retired.

If someone comes up with a way to monetize or even exploit this data it's very likely nobody else is doing it.

Fuck smart meters.  Violation of privacy.  Tons of little things that seem benign but in the aggregate it can be used against you.  Already lots of cases of power companies caught lying about how often they transmit, among other things.  Why lie about it?  More big brother.

"Your smart meter data shows a vivid profile of your personal living patterns, and whether or not you were home on the night of the murder".

"we need higher frequency data such as 10s or 1s or even higher"

Our smart meters provide sub 10s data...

There is a lot of variability in the field.   Some places are on the ball, and other place still live in the 1950's "we don't even lock our doors at night".

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I'm living the cyberpunk dystopian ???? life.

@viralinsurgency

5/10/15/20 years from now there'll be nashing of teeth and arglebraggling "who could've known???".

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"The wisdom of the masses" lol @narphenal @RustedAce

Hello South Africa!

lOaD ShEdDiNg

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GD is purse swinging central

I have worked in the electric utility industry for over 35 years.  I have deployed and operated two systems and have advised utilities all over the country about deploying  and operating these systems.  

Most utilities guard your usage data above all else.  The ones I have worked for won't even give it to law enforcement without a subpoena.  The data is encrypted from the time it leaves the meter until it hits the server at the utility or in the cloud.  The only time we look at individual usage is to bill the customer or aide them in figuring out high consumption.  We give no shits about what you are using or when you use it.  We do engineering analysis on data collected by feeder for reliability and system planning.  The usage on your individual home is pretty much irrelevant unless you have an issue or want to size a generator.

There are virtually no "dumb" meters produced any more.  If your meter is digital, it is a "smart" meter whether it can transmit data or not.  Aggregate interval data can be pulled from virtually any digital meter by having the proper software and optical connector with a laptop.

No one at a utility wants to spy on you.  We bill you for what you use.  All this spying crap is internet conspiracy theories.  All access to individual data is logged by user access and can be traced if there is ever any doubt.  

On most rf systems, the meters report hourly and transmit at 1 watt.  Total transmission time daily is a matter of seconds.  You get far more rf exposure from the router in your home or your cell phone.  

"Smart" meters are just utilities moving from 50's technology to the digital age.  They provide data that not only helps the utility plan and operate more efficiently, but can also help you understand when you use power and diagnose any problems you may have.  They help restore outages more quickly and reduce theft.  If you monkey with the meter, any system operator worth a damn will know about it and you will get a visit.  There is nothing nefarious or dangerous about the systems.  

People demand the latest and greatest technology from virtually any device they buy, but get all bent out of shape when their power provider embraces new tech.  It is all so tiresome.

Based and realitypilled.

Most of these meters are using TI reference designs; you're somewhat limited in what you can collect, at scale.

As someone said above, you need a "killer app" to make collecting and processing all that data at a useful resolution (beyond billing) an economic proposition.

I'd absolutely love to have a utility grade CT that I could "train" to identify various household loads.  It would save me a bundle in discrete CTs and CT channels.

Once we start seeing those, I'll start worrying about what the utility can see, and if I need that much tinfoil, I'll start showing up as a constant 10A resistive load.  :)

One might argue that variable rate billing is the most capitalist friendly model. You pay at market rate.

Next controversial topic is how subsidized residential electricity is, especially you people in low population areas.

I had to opt out. Pay the one time fee and the ongoing monthly monitoring fee. It is worth it to me. I don't want one. Generally speaking, I find opting out to be the best thing one can do in most situations.

Learn how to read your meter.
If they fuck up, bitch, cry, stomp your feet, piss on their pillow, and make your voice heard.

All that being said, most importantly, learn how to read your meter.

We would get in alot of trouble for that................we take them with us and dump them at the end of the day

Electricity is a right

You don’t want a smart meter make your own electric

Your concerns seem unfounded if you use any type of smart phone.

Smart thermostat is a complete non issue. 10+ easy tricks.

Smart meter?

Throughly fucked. No way around that.

Our meter information is open to who has access to the PI data... we are fairly new to this though... also, all it takes is getting commission approval and the director of IT to tell someone to copy all of that data from server and send it to whomever. You can also assume the feds already have it, as I believe it is common practice to have them monitor utility company networks as part of critical infrastructure security. I know my company pays them for this help at the very least.

An RC/DC meter, yeah................a regular smart meter has to be physically turned off........of course you know that

I'm trying to sus-out a value to that information. That has to be done to ensure a reasonable amount of protection is provided.

I can't fathom a reason to obscure any of my power consumption so long as I don't have a 5x5" grow tent with 500 watts of LED lights full of budding Sativa dope plants.

What could I possibly do with electrical power that I wouldn't want my neighbors or government to know about?



We protect valuable information with greater protections than we do information that is of little value. There is no reason to protect worthless data -- which I think the time I took a shower is.

I was educated about this in a similar thread six months ago.

The meters actually have a zero crossing detecting switch and can connect/disconnect at rated load.

Glowies don't like it when plebes build nuclear reactors

You don’t get it.

Using smart meters to manage grid flow would allow the PoCo to minimize the extent of the outage. Otherwise they drop entire feeders and/or subs. You not having a smart meter doesn’t mean the system won’t overload. It actually increases the chance of problems in areas without enough of them vs a saturated area.

If you’re the one residence without a smart meter, it won’t make a difference. Unless you’re the only one out for whatever reason.

Then you just have to call them like the good ole days.

I know this varies by utility and State laws, but we do share individual account data with anyone, State or Federal.  We have to report total kW and kWh to certain agencies, but it is not aggregated to individual consumers.  We will only share individual data with the consumer.

Electric utility? What role?

And your utility is talking about selling usage data?

I wouldn’t be surprised if they sold it in aggregate, but individual usage data without an option to opt out is a few generations away from being acceptable.

Uh. Distribution should be networked so that crit distribution doesn’t lose service. If you aren’t on that circuit, you lose power.

That’s distribution planning 101.

I think. I don’t do that little stuff.

Now we’re getting somewhere. Let’s go from white paper theoretical world to real world.