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MN, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2023 1:21:50 PM EDT
[#1]
I have to say I'm surprised at the scale of the damage to the whole site.
This was not a minor miscalculation, and considering that it cost them what probably would have been a flawless launch test otherwise, it is a pretty uncharacteristic blunder for SpaceX. |
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Posted: 4/27/2023 1:55:37 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 4/27/2023 2:09:10 PM EDT
[#3]
I was expecting to see holes in star hopper. held up well.
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Posted: 4/27/2023 2:18:48 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RyanEsstac: I was expecting to see holes in star hopper. held up well. That picture doesn't really show the side that took the blast, look at the roof of the building to the left to see the direction of the incoming frag. There have been other pics of it showing damage, not sure if anything actually punched all the way through. |
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Posted: 4/27/2023 2:48:00 PM EDT
[#5]
I think hopper is a water tank now. I think otherwise the launch would have moved it.
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USA
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Posted: 4/27/2023 2:55:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Zam18th]
[#6]
So maybe 4.
ETA: I had been assuming they would be working on the deluge installation for 2-3 months after this launch. So if they're back to testing in 4 months I'll be ecstatic. |
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Posted: 4/27/2023 3:06:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mousehunter]
[#7]
They were building a system of water cooled steel plates to protect the concrete before the launch - but had not had time to install it. My humble understanding is was going to be a steel sandwich with water cooling in the center. They believed the active water cooling on the back side of the plate could prevent the front side from melting due to the rockets - with the plates protecting the concrete from the direct fire of the blast.
Of course, if the water flash vaporizes - I bet Musk could get a bigga boom. I can not see how heat almost capable of melting steel on one side would not boil water on the other. |
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Posted: 4/27/2023 3:20:45 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mousehunter: I can not see how heat almost capable of melting steel on one side would not boil water on the other. Maybe the water flow rate/volume carries the heat energy away fast enough to prevent flash boiling? |
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Posted: 4/27/2023 3:31:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mousehunter]
[#9]
Oh, I am sure they can come up with something. By the time they get enough water flow - I am not sure how much different this would be from a deluge system. Still, I can not help but imagine they are building a steam cannon. But in all fairness - boiling water does take energy. It will be cooler than the rocket blast. That is the main goal - to keep the heat from destroying the concrete.
Flip side, if the boiling water hits the gulf - environmentalists will be calling it an industrial sized crab boil. To the extent any birds get caught by it... |
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Posted: 4/27/2023 3:45:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mousehunter: Oh, I am sure they can come up with something. By the time they get enough water flow - I am not sure how much different this would be from a deluge system. Still, I can not help but imagine they are building a steam cannon. But in all fairness - boiling water does take energy. It will be cooler than the rocket blast. That is the main goal - to keep the heat from destroying the concrete. Flip side, if the boiling water hits the gulf - environmentalists will be calling it an industrial sized crab boil. To the extent any birds get caught by it... I'm not convinced heat was the biggest issue with the concrete. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2023 6:53:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Furloaf]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zam18th: So maybe 4.
ETA: I had been assuming they would be working on the deluge installation for 2-3 months after this launch. So if they're back to testing in 4 months I'll be ecstatic. LOL 2 months? No way. I'm saying 6 months minimum. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2023 6:56:09 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mousehunter: They were building a system of water cooled steel plates to protect the concrete before the launch - but had not had time to install it. My humble understanding is was going to be a steel sandwich with water cooling in the center. They believed the active water cooling on the back side of the plate could prevent the front side from melting due to the rockets - with the plates protecting the concrete from the direct fire of the blast. Of course, if the water flash vaporizes - I bet Musk could get a bigga boom. I can not see how heat almost capable of melting steel on one side would not boil water on the other. Oh nice, so then will have steel shrapnel instead of concrete ripping through the engine bay. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/27/2023 7:03:48 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mousehunter: Oh, I am sure they can come up with something. By the time they get enough water flow - I am not sure how much different this would be from a deluge system. Still, I can not help but imagine they are building a steam cannon. But in all fairness - boiling water does take energy. It will be cooler than the rocket blast. That is the main goal - to keep the heat from destroying the concrete. Flip side, if the boiling water hits the gulf - environmentalists will be calling it an industrial sized crab boil. To the extent any birds get caught by it... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mousehunter: Oh, I am sure they can come up with something. By the time they get enough water flow - I am not sure how much different this would be from a deluge system. Still, I can not help but imagine they are building a steam cannon. But in all fairness - boiling water does take energy. It will be cooler than the rocket blast. That is the main goal - to keep the heat from destroying the concrete. Flip side, if the boiling water hits the gulf - environmentalists will be calling it an industrial sized crab boil. To the extent any birds get caught by it... Pic of the steel plates Click To View Spoiler Originally Posted By dmnoid77: I'm not convinced heat was the biggest issue with the concrete.
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Posted: 4/27/2023 7:23:37 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Furloaf: LOL 2 months? No way. I'm saying 6 months minimum. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Furloaf: Originally Posted By Zam18th: So maybe 4.
ETA: I had been assuming they would be working on the deluge installation for 2-3 months after this launch. So if they're back to testing in 4 months I'll be ecstatic. LOL 2 months? No way. I'm saying 6 months minimum. |
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Posted: 4/27/2023 7:37:13 PM EDT
[#15]
How many launches can they do this year? A full 5? Is that what the license was for I can't remember.
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USA
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Posted: 4/27/2023 7:44:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By theskuh: How many launches can they do this year? A full 5? Is that what the license was for I can't remember. The PEA said 5 full stack and 5 Starship only suborbital. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2023 7:55:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: memsu]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mousehunter: They were building a system of water cooled steel plates to protect the concrete before the launch - but had not had time to install it. My humble understanding is was going to be a steel sandwich with water cooling in the center. They believed the active water cooling on the back side of the plate could prevent the front side from melting due to the rockets - with the plates protecting the concrete from the direct fire of the blast. Of course, if the water flash vaporizes - I bet Musk could get a bigga boom. I can not see how heat almost capable of melting steel on one side would not boil water on the other. If you pump the water fast enough it doesn't have time to get hot enough to flash to steam. Just need lots of water and big pumps. You can also raise the boiling point by keeping it pressurized. |
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SYC
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Posted: 4/27/2023 7:56:41 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By memsu: If you pump the water fast enough it doesn't have time to get hot enough to flash to steam. Just need lots of water and big pumps. even if it did flash to steam as part of a water deluge system it would just make a faster water deluge... those plates above definitely look like a combo shielding deluge system. |
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Posted: 4/27/2023 7:59:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BeatsOfftoEVs]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zam18th: I'm under the impression that the water cooled plates underneath and the water cooled plates on the top of the launch mount are all tied into a water deluge system. You need the plates to protect high stress areas and you need the deluge to help mitigate all the energy from the acoustics and probably heat. I've been wondering if they'll flow the water through the plates so fast that the heating is negligible and then that water sprays out to handle to deluge duties. Best part is no part. It will be interesting to see what they have come up with, especially with environmental restrictions. Pic of the steel plates Click To View Spoiler Sounds like the force and shockwaves cracked the concrete and that allowed the hot gas to penetrate and peel up the rest.
My dad is an mechanical engineer and this is exactly what he said probably caused it ETA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_suppression_system |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2023 8:05:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Obo2: even if it did flash to steam as part of a water deluge system it would just make a faster water deluge... those plates above definitely look like a combo shielding deluge system. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Obo2: Originally Posted By memsu: If you pump the water fast enough it doesn't have time to get hot enough to flash to steam. Just need lots of water and big pumps. even if it did flash to steam as part of a water deluge system it would just make a faster water deluge... those plates above definitely look like a combo shielding deluge system. They are basically making a heat exchanger. That's all it really is. I'm interested if it's going to be a closed loop system or open loop. Like do you just need lots of raw water flowing through the plates. This would dump all kinds of water out at the launch site. If they did a closed loop to recirculate the water they'd have to take the hot water and cool it down to send it back to the launch site. That might be what makes the enviro people happy in the long run since you won't be releasing the water into the environment. You only need the system to operate for less than a minute maybe more if you want to use it to slowly cool the launch pad down after launch. Closed loop would be way more complex and that's not really Space X's motto. The best part is no part. |
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Posted: 4/27/2023 8:17:27 PM EDT
[#21]
I don't know about the characteristics of their concrete. Normal concrete has thermal expansion issues. I think it is also technically porous. I know river stones can explode when heated, don't know if saturated concrete might do the same.
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Posted: 4/27/2023 8:42:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zam18th: The PEA said 5 full stack and 5 Starship only suborbital. So if they launch every two months from here till the end of the year they can launch 5 times full stack. That would be crazy. I bet that is the timeline Elon is pushing. Though probably not at all achievable but I can see him not wanting to leave any launches on the table this year if he has ships available. |
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Posted: 4/27/2023 8:51:24 PM EDT
[#23]
  Raptor Roost Cam - SpaceX Starbase Starship Launch Facility |
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Posted: 4/27/2023 8:52:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: fox2008]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By theskuh: So if they launch every two months from here till the end of the year they can launch 5 times full stack. That would be crazy. I bet that is the timeline Elon is pushing. Though probably not at all achievable but I can see him not wanting to leave any launches on the table this year if he has ships available. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By theskuh: Originally Posted By Zam18th: The PEA said 5 full stack and 5 Starship only suborbital. So if they launch every two months from here till the end of the year they can launch 5 times full stack. That would be crazy. I bet that is the timeline Elon is pushing. Though probably not at all achievable but I can see him not wanting to leave any launches on the table this year if he has ships available. Assuming they get the OLM fixed quickly….maybe….assuming they also manage to recover equipment and don’t damage the OLM on launch again. Even if all that happens…it seems pretty aggressive but I hope it works out that way. ETA: They also need to not burn down any buildings to stay on schedule |
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SYC
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Posted: 4/27/2023 9:27:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By memsu: They are basically making a heat exchanger. That's all it really is. I'm interested if it's going to be a closed loop system or open loop. Like do you just need lots of raw water flowing through the plates. This would dump all kinds of water out at the launch site. If they did a closed loop to recirculate the water they'd have to take the hot water and cool it down to send it back to the launch site. That might be what makes the enviro people happy in the long run since you won't be releasing the water into the environment. You only need the system to operate for less than a minute maybe more if you want to use it to slowly cool the launch pad down after launch. Closed loop would be way more complex and that's not really Space X's motto. The best part is no part. It might be a closed loop in that they have a catch/settling pond that reclaims the water but that amount of water will likely be in an elevated/pressurized tank. |
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Posted: 4/27/2023 9:39:19 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Obo2: It might be a closed loop in that they have a catch/settling pond that reclaims the water but that amount of water will likely be in an elevated/pressurized tank. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Obo2: Originally Posted By memsu: They are basically making a heat exchanger. That's all it really is. I'm interested if it's going to be a closed loop system or open loop. Like do you just need lots of raw water flowing through the plates. This would dump all kinds of water out at the launch site. If they did a closed loop to recirculate the water they'd have to take the hot water and cool it down to send it back to the launch site. That might be what makes the enviro people happy in the long run since you won't be releasing the water into the environment. You only need the system to operate for less than a minute maybe more if you want to use it to slowly cool the launch pad down after launch. Closed loop would be way more complex and that's not really Space X's motto. The best part is no part. It might be a closed loop in that they have a catch/settling pond that reclaims the water but that amount of water will likely be in an elevated/pressurized tank. I can see water flowing through the plates and shooting out through openings in the top edge to buffer the sound and shockwaves. I think the four tanks will be too small for the job, but I'm not an engineer. |
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Posted: 4/28/2023 12:27:47 AM EDT
[#27]
Is water now an environmental hazard?
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Posted: 4/28/2023 1:07:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Master_of_Orion]
[#28]
Fill pit with rebar. Then More concrete. The rocket dug the exact right depth you need.
Repair damage to ring launch pad and beef up protection where it was damaged. Same for the tank farm. Install the water deluge system. Launch again and see if the beefed up protection and water system are enough. 2 months might be a bit optimistic... unless you mean... May and June dedicated to such work and then transitioning to making things ready for a launch around the end of July... Most normal people would call that 3-4 months... I'm confident they can be ready around the end of July maybe August... if they try to add some sort of additional pad protector system as that would need to get its design finalized, fabricated, shipped to and installed at the site and then tested and bugs worked out. SpaceX is in a testing campaign to find out what the least amount of infrastructure is actually needed to launch such a large rocket. Things are going to break. Things breaking is not a failure. It is expected and precisely the point of doing the test in the first place. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a moron. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2023 1:11:07 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoseCuervo: Is water now an environmental hazard? |
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Posted: 4/28/2023 1:27:51 AM EDT
[#30]
While the fish might somewhat migrate out of the our bays during the winter - most of the time we don't have a problem with cold water. Now sometimes we do get an issue with too warm of water, I think it might be associated with red tide outbreaks.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2023 1:38:48 AM EDT
[#31]
Elon's not launching anything until the FAA, the EPA, and US Fish and Wildlife agency put Spacex through the ringer. Elon got very lucky he didn't have a RUD on the pad or at very low altitude.
Spacex might launch in six months but not sooner. |
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Posted: 4/28/2023 6:53:37 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ILfreedom: Elon's not launching anything until the FAA, the EPA, and US Fish and Wildlife agency put Spacex through the ringer. Elon got very lucky he didn't have a RUD on the pad or at very low altitude. Spacex might launch in six months but not sooner. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2023 6:59:54 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 7: It was quite expected that Starship would blow up on the pad and approvals were given with that in mind. I think once SpaceX is ready, they will launch again. Expected by Elon perhaps. I don't think the FAA are going to see it that way. The rocket was clearly out of control near the end of its flight and could have veered over populated areas before the flight termination explosives were activated. The FAA isn't going to let them launch again until Spacex can guarantee that won't happen. It's sort of their mission. |
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Posted: 4/28/2023 7:20:32 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ILfreedom: Expected by Elon perhaps. I don't think the FAA are going to see it that way. The rocket was clearly out of control near the end of its flight and could have veered over populated areas before the flight termination explosives were activated. The FAA isn't going to let them launch again until Spacex can guarantee that won't happen. It's sort of their mission. There is a reason why the exclusion zone wasn’t 9 meters wide. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2023 7:34:15 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ILfreedom: Expected by Elon perhaps. I don't think the FAA are going to see it that way. The rocket was clearly out of control near the end of its flight and could have veered over populated areas before the flight termination explosives were activated. The FAA isn't going to let them launch again until Spacex can guarantee that won't happen. It's sort of their mission. I don't think it could have veered over populated areas before they blew it. They probably have rocket scientist that considered that possibility when planning don't you think? |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2023 7:44:46 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DirkericPitt: I don't think it could have veered over populated areas before they blew it. They probably have rocket scientist that considered that possibility when planning don't you think? Were these the same rocket scientist who didn't design and build a flame trench and water deluge system? Elon said they didn't have time to install a method to keep the concrete from flying for hundreds of meters and damage the OLM. Was Elon on a clock to launch? Except a self imposed one. I'm not against Spacex. I'm against this reckless approach that is going to put the whole Artemis program in danger of failure. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2023 7:46:53 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mousehunter: They were building a system of water cooled steel plates to protect the concrete before the launch - but had not had time to install it. My humble understanding is was going to be a steel sandwich with water cooling in the center. They believed the active water cooling on the back side of the plate could prevent the front side from melting due to the rockets - with the plates protecting the concrete from the direct fire of the blast. Of course, if the water flash vaporizes - I bet Musk could get a bigga boom. I can not see how heat almost capable of melting steel on one side would not boil water on the other. Steel and more exotic materials are often used in combustion chambers of power plants and rocket engines where the hot side is at or near the melting temperature of the chamber material. Liquid cooling with water in the case of power plants and cryogenic liquid in the case of rocket engines removes enough heat to prevent melting. In the case of coal fired power plants, the system works this way for years. The water is pressurized and the boiling point is therefore raised. The flow rate must be high enough to prevent boiling. Good distribution is critical. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2023 7:50:54 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ILfreedom: Were these the same rocket scientist who didn't design and build a flame trench and water deluge system? Elon said they didn't have time to install a method to keep the concrete from flying for hundreds of meters and damage the OLM. Was Elon on a clock to launch? Except a self imposed one. I'm not against Spacex. I'm against this reckless approach that is going to put the whole Artemis program in danger of failure. Actually they probably were not the same scientists. |
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SYC
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Posted: 4/28/2023 7:52:04 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ILfreedom: Expected by Elon perhaps. I don't think the FAA are going to see it that way. The rocket was clearly out of control near the end of its flight and could have veered over populated areas before the flight termination explosives were activated. The FAA isn't going to let them launch again until Spacex can guarantee that won't happen. It's sort of their mission. The flight termination system appears to have functioned. As far as I have seen the main concern raised so far was the particulate being spread outside the intended debris field. They want to get samples to ensure it does not pose a public health risk. It seems noise levels from the previous static fire and presumably this launch exceeded projections. One article stated 110 decibels a mile from the site. Spacex should be able to implement their flame diverter/deluge system and so long as it functions as intended both of those issues should be successfully mitigated. I would not expect sand kicked up from a methalox engine to contain anything harmful to public health though the particulate itself if inhaled could pose some danger. I hope spacex is taking the flame diverter/deluge system very seriously. |
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Posted: 4/28/2023 8:39:09 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoseCuervo: Is water now an environmental hazard? It can be a contaminant, in certain cases. Dump a shit ton of freshwater into the sea, or concentrated brine into any body of water, or water with a substantial temperature differential…. It’s why California doesn’t have a ton of desalinization plants, because the “where’s the brine going?” question is enough to derail them on environmental grounds. |
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Posted: 4/28/2023 9:31:31 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ILfreedom: Expected by Elon perhaps. I don't think the FAA are going to see it that way. The rocket was clearly out of control near the end of its flight and could have veered over populated areas before the flight termination explosives were activated. The FAA isn't going to let them launch again until Spacex can guarantee that won't happen. It's sort of their mission. Lololololol U can't into reading [youtube]shorts/cqbIwZMvbqw[/youtube] |
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Posted: 4/28/2023 9:47:12 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ILfreedom: Were these the same rocket scientist who didn't design and build a flame trench and water deluge system? Elon said they didn't have time to install a method to keep the concrete from flying for hundreds of meters and damage the OLM. Was Elon on a clock to launch? Except a self imposed one. I'm not against Spacex. I'm against this reckless approach that is going to put the whole Artemis program in danger of failure. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ILfreedom: Originally Posted By DirkericPitt: I don't think it could have veered over populated areas before they blew it. They probably have rocket scientist that considered that possibility when planning don't you think? Were these the same rocket scientist who didn't design and build a flame trench and water deluge system? Elon said they didn't have time to install a method to keep the concrete from flying for hundreds of meters and damage the OLM. Was Elon on a clock to launch? Except a self imposed one. I'm not against Spacex. I'm against this reckless approach that is going to put the whole Artemis program in danger of failure. lol....you guys act like this hasn't been the strategy of SpaceX from the beginning. They are approaching Starship very similar to how they approached Falcon, the only difference is scale. You honestly think the FAA issued a license with no knowledge of the likelihood it would explode and likely tear stuff up in the process? I'm guessing the volume of information that anyone planning on building and launching rockets has to provide various .gov agencies is staggering. I'd also guess that companies are fairly honest in their expectations of experimental launches with those agencies, since they need future approvals from them as well. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2023 10:43:52 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ILfreedom: Were these the same rocket scientist who didn't design and build a flame trench and water deluge system? Elon said they didn't have time to install a method to keep the concrete from flying for hundreds of meters and damage the OLM. Was Elon on a clock to launch? Except a self imposed one. I'm not against Spacex. I'm against this reckless approach that is going to put the whole Artemis program in danger of failure. Also, the main goal of the Aremis program is stupid. We shouldn't be trying to go back to the moon. The only good thing will be gateway, however that should be the priority. We should be constructing a huge space station, with tons of capabilities. Sure it might be useful to go to the moon a couple times, but we need a station with artificial gravity, shielding, and very long term habitation. Should have huge fuel storage, many, many docking stations, and large construction facilities for assembling new spacecraft. That should be the priority, with the longer term goal of another station near the asteroid belt. |
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Posted: 4/28/2023 10:58:50 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ILfreedom: Expected by Elon perhaps. I don't think the FAA are going to see it that way. The rocket was clearly out of control near the end of its flight and could have veered over populated areas before the flight termination explosives were activated. The FAA isn't going to let them launch again until Spacex can guarantee that won't happen. It's sort of their mission. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ILfreedom: Originally Posted By 7: It was quite expected that Starship would blow up on the pad and approvals were given with that in mind. I think once SpaceX is ready, they will launch again. Expected by Elon perhaps. I don't think the FAA are going to see it that way. The rocket was clearly out of control near the end of its flight and could have veered over populated areas before the flight termination explosives were activated. The FAA isn't going to let them launch again until Spacex can guarantee that won't happen. It's sort of their mission. That is old space thinking and not the way SpaceX does things. Rapid prototyping and test to failure. They had said success on this was launching and clearing the tower. It made it past that. |
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Posted: 4/28/2023 12:28:03 PM EDT
[#45]
Originally Posted By ILfreedom: Expected by Elon perhaps. I don't think the FAA are going to see it that way. The rocket was clearly out of control near the end of its flight and could have veered over populated areas before the flight termination explosives were activated. The FAA isn't going to let them launch again until Spacex can guarantee that won't happen. It's sort of their mission. You literally have no idea what you are talking about - once again.  I cannot tell if you are deliberately trying to troll or derail the thread, or if you are just very uninformed. Please stop posting in this thread. |
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Posted: 4/28/2023 12:34:44 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: You literally have no idea what you are talking about - once again. I cannot tell if you are deliberately trying to troll or derail the thread, or if you are just very uninformed. Please stop posting in this thread.  |
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Posted: 4/28/2023 12:38:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DirkericPitt: Also, the main goal of the Aremis program is stupid. We shouldn't be trying to go back to the moon. The only good thing will be gateway, however that should be the priority. We should be constructing a huge space station, with tons of capabilities. Sure it might be useful to go to the moon a couple times, but we need a station with artificial gravity, shielding, and very long term habitation. Should have huge fuel storage, many, many docking stations, and large construction facilities for assembling new spacecraft. That should be the priority, with the longer term goal of another station near the asteroid belt. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DirkericPitt: Originally Posted By ILfreedom: Were these the same rocket scientist who didn't design and build a flame trench and water deluge system? Elon said they didn't have time to install a method to keep the concrete from flying for hundreds of meters and damage the OLM. Was Elon on a clock to launch? Except a self imposed one. I'm not against Spacex. I'm against this reckless approach that is going to put the whole Artemis program in danger of failure. Also, the main goal of the Aremis program is stupid. We shouldn't be trying to go back to the moon. The only good thing will be gateway, however that should be the priority. We should be constructing a huge space station, with tons of capabilities. Sure it might be useful to go to the moon a couple times, but we need a station with artificial gravity, shielding, and very long term habitation. Should have huge fuel storage, many, many docking stations, and large construction facilities for assembling new spacecraft. That should be the priority, with the longer term goal of another station near the asteroid belt. The entire purpose of Artemis is to put a black woman on the moon. As soon as that goal is accomplished, the US government will suddenly lose ALL interest in manned spaceflight, and will stop funding it. Just watch. New space stations? Human travel to Mars? Permanent human presence outside of Earth? None of that will happen without SpaceX, because NASA will not have the funds for it. |
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Posted: 4/28/2023 12:52:01 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Drugmanrx: My dad is an mechanical engineer and this is exactly what he said probably caused it ETA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_suppression_system Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Drugmanrx: Originally Posted By Zam18th: I'm under the impression that the water cooled plates underneath and the water cooled plates on the top of the launch mount are all tied into a water deluge system. You need the plates to protect high stress areas and you need the deluge to help mitigate all the energy from the acoustics and probably heat. I've been wondering if they'll flow the water through the plates so fast that the heating is negligible and then that water sprays out to handle to deluge duties. Best part is no part. It will be interesting to see what they have come up with, especially with environmental restrictions. Pic of the steel plates Click To View Spoiler Sounds like the force and shockwaves cracked the concrete and that allowed the hot gas to penetrate and peel up the rest.
My dad is an mechanical engineer and this is exactly what he said probably caused it ETA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_suppression_system Cool. It sure makes a lot of sense. Also, the startup shock wave from engines is supposed to be pretty violent, so it got pounded by 33 engine shock waves just from startup. |
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Posted: 4/28/2023 12:55:58 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DirkericPitt: Also, the main goal of the Aremis program is stupid. We shouldn't be trying to go back to the moon. The only good thing will be gateway, however that should be the priority. We should be constructing a huge space station, with tons of capabilities. Sure it might be useful to go to the moon a couple times, but we need a station with artificial gravity, shielding, and very long term habitation. Should have huge fuel storage, many, many docking stations, and large construction facilities for assembling new spacecraft. That should be the priority, with the longer term goal of another station near the asteroid belt. The current plan for the gateway is for it to be smaller than the ISS by a lot. It's basically a hut. I would agree that a good use for it would be as a temporary living area to facilitate the building of a large rotating Space Station. Materials for such a station could be mined, refined, and launched from the Moon. The Moon is a great place to go if your goal is to exploit its resources to build a Space Station to use for refining asteroids. Once built, start with the Near Earth Asteroids... the ones that often pass between the Earth and the Moon (several a month do this) and any that may one day impact Earth. Once you've cleared those out then start on the asteroid belt. |
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Posted: 4/28/2023 1:00:49 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: The entire purpose of Artemis is to put a black woman on the moon. As soon as that goal is accomplished, the US government will suddenly lose ALL interest in manned spaceflight, and will stop funding it. Just watch. New space stations? Human travel to Mars? Permanent human presence outside of Earth? None of that will happen without SpaceX, because NASA will not have the funds for it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Originally Posted By DirkericPitt: Originally Posted By ILfreedom: Were these the same rocket scientist who didn't design and build a flame trench and water deluge system? Elon said they didn't have time to install a method to keep the concrete from flying for hundreds of meters and damage the OLM. Was Elon on a clock to launch? Except a self imposed one. I'm not against Spacex. I'm against this reckless approach that is going to put the whole Artemis program in danger of failure. Also, the main goal of the Aremis program is stupid. We shouldn't be trying to go back to the moon. The only good thing will be gateway, however that should be the priority. We should be constructing a huge space station, with tons of capabilities. Sure it might be useful to go to the moon a couple times, but we need a station with artificial gravity, shielding, and very long term habitation. Should have huge fuel storage, many, many docking stations, and large construction facilities for assembling new spacecraft. That should be the priority, with the longer term goal of another station near the asteroid belt. The entire purpose of Artemis is to put a black woman on the moon. As soon as that goal is accomplished, the US government will suddenly lose ALL interest in manned spaceflight, and will stop funding it. Just watch. New space stations? Human travel to Mars? Permanent human presence outside of Earth? None of that will happen without SpaceX, because NASA will not have the funds for it. Musk should announce that he wants to put a black lesbian woman on Mars.....he'll need his own blast shields to protect him from all the money the .gov will through at him.
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