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Link Posted: 12/20/2020 9:55:36 PM EDT
[#1]
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Sidious would still have been recycled...I am just saying a scene at the end after Sidious is killed and the big victory celebration they cut back to Exegol and we see that the Sith are not dead because of Maul's line of Sith Lords.
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A fair point. He seemed enamored with his former master's plan once he realized how it was to unfold.  Almost giddy about finally understanding how every piece of the puzzle fit together. His own lust for power put him on a collision course with Sidious though as he was causing trouble and drawing attention.  

Still, a story told from his point of view would be amazing, even if it casts him as an antihero. He's not though, cause he's a Sith. Doing good is not in their nature.  It would be far more interesting exploring his rule of Mandalore and control of the various crime families. Basically a space Godfather, I guess.


Covered in spice like Al Pacino in Scarface?

Well...  he was working with the Pikes.


One of my issues with Maul was they did not give him an apprentice after The Clone Wars....he was trying to corrupt Ezra in Rebels...but to me giving him an apprentice to carry on the Sith after the death of Palpatine and Vader was a mistake....and a scene at the end of TRoS with Maul's apprentice and an apprentice to him/her would have been interesting.

That would have been infinitely better than recycling Sidious.  Unlike his former master, Maul sought to consolidate power throughout the underworld to have the hidden power and influence of the crime families for himself. He, and his successor(s), would have been formidable opponents with that kind of backing.  Further, unlike Palpatine, he could openly threaten innocents to use as leverage, effectively holding entire planets as hostages.

Hell, with just his little impromptu coalition he was able to conquer Mandalore remarkably quick.  Imagine if he could have expanded that power throughout the outer rim.


Sidious would still have been recycled...I am just saying a scene at the end after Sidious is killed and the big victory celebration they cut back to Exegol and we see that the Sith are not dead because of Maul's line of Sith Lords.

Then I'm out. His survival makes Anakin's sacrifice meaningless.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 9:59:24 PM EDT
[#2]
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With Luke screaming "There is no try motherfucker there is only do!"
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Link Posted: 12/20/2020 10:02:04 PM EDT
[#3]
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This EP of Mando was the best Star Wars since the Vader scene in Rogue one. R1 was a great SW movie. This EP is how SW movies should be made.



Anyone else thing we will see a Jedi Academy? Luke, Grogu, Kylo and a few others. Will Grogu escape Kylo's wrath?
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They just need to do their own thing a pretend those shit movies do not exist.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 10:14:37 PM EDT
[#4]
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Thank you for putting into words what I could not.   I'm going to borrow this for a different forum!
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But wasn't that whole point of Beskar, grappling hooks, backpack rockets and the like?  These were all gadgets the Mandalorians developed to even the playing field against the Jedi.
That was what I thought. Like the wrist rockets, too many at one time for them to block.

In the end, it's kind of a pointless discussion.

The winner is whoever the author/writer decides it is. If a Mandalorian fires off his Whistling Birds and downs a Jedi/Sith or two, it's because the story needed it to happen. He's either the hero, or the villain. If, on the other hand, the Jedi/Sith held up their hand and stopped all the little missiles with telekinesis, or turned them back against the Mandalorian, it's because that's what the writer wanted to happen.

Trying to get consistency out of dozens (hundreds?) of authors over a 40+ year time span isn't really possible. Lucas tried...for a long time everything had to be approved by Lucasfilm, or even by him personally. Eventually that devolved into "don't fuck up what George has already written and you're fine."

For the most part, though, the media portrays the Jedi/Sith as literally superhuman (superalien?). They can accomplish anything and everything with the Force, if they have the will. If they fail, it's because they needed to for the plot or character development journey. The hero or villain can block incoming blaster bolts from a dozen stormtroopers or droids or whatever, but the secondary characters die.

A perfect example is falling. Jedi/Sith can throw themselves out of moving aircraft, fall hundreds or thousands of feet, and land safely in a superhero pose. But when you need one of them to die, you toss them off a building. Maybe after cutting off a limb, but still...the glaring inconsistencies are deeply embedded.

The same thing happens in the philosophy. The Jedi are supposed to be peacekeepers, non-violent, etc. etc. etc., but they never fail to use violence to solve a problem. They're control freaks, and the instant they feel control slipping away, a lightsaber comes out, and the bodies hit the floor. Or, sometimes, that's the go-to-first. Look at Ahsoka in this season of the Mandalorian.

Did she have to run through the forest and literally murder a dozen troopers before approaching the gate to give her demands? Couldn't she, basically being an invincible ninja, have crept into the main compound, cut down the two guard droids as she dropped in, reflected a blaster bolt into Michael Biehn's face, and beat down the woman, all before anyone could have realized what had happened? It's happened before, many times in the shows. Sneak in, maybe have to fight out. Instead, she goes all judge, jury, and executioner on a bunch of flunkies first. That also happens a lot. So much for the ideals of the Jedi. More glaring inconsistencies.

But, back on the point we were discussing, Ahsoka was able to fight Vader almost to a standstill. She would have lost in the end (because everyone has to lose to Vader except Luke in the end...plot), and was saved by Ezra. She would also have gone through the Dark Troopers like they were paper-mache. She could have probably held her own against Luke for quite a while.

Din was about two steps and two seconds from being cut in two. He's alive because that's what the plot said. Had he been one of the faceless Mandalorian cohort that trained him (and that he was no better than), she would have cut down several in the space of that scene.

And that's the problem with arguing who would beat who in any genre of media. Bruce Lee vs Chuck Norris. Superman vs Batman. Din vs Ahsoka. Who does the plot say wins? Can you really make a compelling argument of any kind as to who, in our warped imaginations would win any given confrontation between fictional super-beings (Bruce and Chuck included)? Our favorite will win, because that's what our imagination wants to happen, and we'll always come up with some convoluted reason why.



Thank you for putting into words what I could not.   I'm going to borrow this for a different forum!

You bet. It's always fun to have these discussions about X vs Y or what if Z happened, but when it devolves into pointless arguing (and it always does) it's easier to remember that whatever the writer wants to happen, happens.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 10:40:43 PM EDT
[#5]
I have been watching Rebels.  It did tie up some stuff that made no sense and was never mentioned in earlier movies.  

The whole books and temples didn't become a thing until Rebels came along.  Along with the little pyramid key things.  NONE of that was in a SW movie or even alluded to until the last three movies that shall not be named.  To the movie goers that shit made no sense to the anime watchers it did.  

As far as the temple mess goes, they went all in on it in other sources.  

The current crop of stories such as the anime and Mando all, tie into that comics and books that most moviegoers never got exposed too.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 10:42:38 PM EDT
[#6]
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This EP of Mando was the best Star Wars since the Vader scene in Rogue one. R1 was a great SW movie. This EP is how SW movies should be made.



Anyone else thing we will see a Jedi Academy? Luke, Grogu, Kylo and a few others. Will Grogu escape Kylo's wrath?
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The whole storyline with Kylo is so lame that it will be ignored (they won’t go that far chronologically).

“Kylo’s wrath” sounds silly now.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 10:47:49 PM EDT
[#7]
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*snip*
Did she have to run through the forest and literally murder a dozen troopers before approaching the gate to give her demands? Couldn't she, basically being an invincible ninja, have crept into the main compound, cut down the two guard droids as she dropped in, reflected a blaster bolt into Michael Biehn's face, and beat down the woman, all before anyone could have realized what had happened? It's happened before, many times in the shows. Sneak in, maybe have to fight out. Instead, she goes all judge, jury, and executioner on a bunch of flunkies first. That also happens a lot. So much for the ideals of the Jedi. More glaring inconsistencies.
*snip*
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But wasn't that whole point of Beskar, grappling hooks, backpack rockets and the like?  These were all gadgets the Mandalorians developed to even the playing field against the Jedi.
That was what I thought. Like the wrist rockets, too many at one time for them to block.

*snip*
Did she have to run through the forest and literally murder a dozen troopers before approaching the gate to give her demands? Couldn't she, basically being an invincible ninja, have crept into the main compound, cut down the two guard droids as she dropped in, reflected a blaster bolt into Michael Biehn's face, and beat down the woman, all before anyone could have realized what had happened? It's happened before, many times in the shows. Sneak in, maybe have to fight out. Instead, she goes all judge, jury, and executioner on a bunch of flunkies first. That also happens a lot. So much for the ideals of the Jedi. More glaring inconsistencies.
*snip*

Actually an interesting thought. No, it wasn't necessary. The thing is though, Ahsoka isn't a Jedi. She never ascended from being a padawan. Her formative years while a padawan were spent almost entirely in war. There's also the influence of her master to be contended with, and I think her behavior here was a nod to Anakin's teachings.  

Think back to Mortis. Anakin embraced the Son because he feared the evil he would become and thought doing so could end evil throughout the galaxy. He justifies betraying Ahsoka and Obi-Wan as being a necessary sacrifice. He was essentially a father to Ahsoka, so it stands to reason she would suffer the same pitfall, justifying immoral acts for the sake of righteousness.  This often makes excellent villains if they believe the ends always justify the means.  

And that's what we see here.  The ends justifying the means. She's judged them evil because they assist in the perpetuation of suffering, irrespective of whether this was done of their own free will.  To her, cutting them down isn't immoral as it tips the balance toward good.  This is what makes her a "Gray Jedi", neither light nor dark, akin to the Father.  Her not tipping to the dark side like her master before her is undoubtedly an influence of the Daughter, whose sacrifice gave Ahsoka new life.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 10:48:04 PM EDT
[#8]
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The whole storyline with Kylo is so lame that it will be ignored (they won’t go that far chronologically).

“Kylo’s wrath” sounds silly now.
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Nope,

I think Kylo kills Grogu.  Had they shown that storyline or at least written it, Kylo would have been a better villain instead of the often soyboy that he was.  

The problem was, nobody thought through the stories.  They just let people throw shit on the wall and said yes to anyone who was given the reins.  That in itself is why the entire story always comes across as a convoluted mess with no continuity.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 10:48:26 PM EDT
[#9]
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100% wrong. His beskar armor fought Ahsoka to a draw for long enough to talk to her. Without that, he'd be a rapidly cooling gut pile. Just like everyone else a skilled Jedi fought. It's one of the problems with having Jedi, actually.
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The clones seemed to wipe most of them out.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 10:50:22 PM EDT
[#10]
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If people cancel. We won’t get more. I liked it.
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No they’ll track the subscription numbers and realize what content brings in subscribers and they will develop enough of that content and schedule it so there is always something to keep those subscribers paying year round.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 10:51:33 PM EDT
[#11]
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They just need to do their own thing a pretend those shit movies do not exist.
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This EP of Mando was the best Star Wars since the Vader scene in Rogue one. R1 was a great SW movie. This EP is how SW movies should be made.



Anyone else thing we will see a Jedi Academy? Luke, Grogu, Kylo and a few others. Will Grogu escape Kylo's wrath?



They just need to do their own thing a pretend those shit movies do not exist.

I've never understood the hate for Rogue One or even Solo. They are EASILY superior to Episodes 1, 2, 6, 7, 8, and 9. Solo was just fun entertainment in the SW universe, and Rogue One was a good movie that gave us a semi-legitimate reason for the weakness of the first Death Star (even though that doesn't really hold up to serious scrutiny...are we supposed to believe one engineer was completely responsible for the entire design with zero oversight?).

Anyway, I enjoy more SW that isn't total shit, but I really can't wait for them to be done sucking fanboi cock and give up on the Skywalker/Palpatine era and saga.

Lets go back to the Old Republic, or even the High Republic, and tell some original tales with completely new characters we can all grow to love/hate and argue about.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 10:53:31 PM EDT
[#12]
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The clones seemed to wipe most of them out.
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100% wrong. His beskar armor fought Ahsoka to a draw for long enough to talk to her. Without that, he'd be a rapidly cooling gut pile. Just like everyone else a skilled Jedi fought. It's one of the problems with having Jedi, actually.


The clones seemed to wipe most of them out.

Sure, with surprise attacks from an unexpected quarter, from people they trusted implicitly after years of fighting alongside them...and because the plot said it had to happen.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 10:56:02 PM EDT
[#13]
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Yes, Almec said Jango wasn't a Mandalorian.  Doesn't make it true.  Sort of like when GD says Trump was re-elected.  Doesn't make it true.
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He was excommunicated essentially
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 10:58:23 PM EDT
[#14]
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Sure, with surprise attacks from an unexpected quarter, from people they trusted implicitly after years of fighting alongside them...and because the plot said it had to happen.
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100% wrong. His beskar armor fought Ahsoka to a draw for long enough to talk to her. Without that, he'd be a rapidly cooling gut pile. Just like everyone else a skilled Jedi fought. It's one of the problems with having Jedi, actually.


The clones seemed to wipe most of them out.

Sure, with surprise attacks from an unexpected quarter, from people they trusted implicitly after years of fighting alongside them...and because the plot said it had to happen.

Yep.  And when the plot said it didn't need to happen quickly (Krell), a Jedi, albeit a fallen one, slaughtered dozens of them before he was finally apprehended.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 10:59:10 PM EDT
[#15]
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Nope,

I think Kylo kills Grogu.  Had they shown that storyline or at least written it, Kylo would have been a better villain instead of the often soyboy that he was.  

The problem was, nobody thought through the stories.  They just let people throw shit on the wall and said yes to anyone who was given the reins.  That in itself is why the entire story always comes across as a convoluted mess with no continuity.
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It is the Star Wars way... make some good shit, make some bad shit, make shit to try to make the bad shit fit in and not look so bad and so forth...
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 10:59:22 PM EDT
[#16]
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Actually an interesting thought. No, it wasn't necessary. The thing is though, Ahsoka isn't a Jedi. She never ascended from being a padawan. Her formative years while a padawan were spent almost entirely in war. There's also the influence of her master to be contended with, and I think her behavior here was a nod to Anakin's teachings.  

Think back to Mortis. Anakin embraced the Son because he feared the evil he would become and thought doing so could end evil throughout the galaxy. He justifies betraying Ahsoka and Obi-Wan as being a necessary sacrifice. He was essentially a father to Ahsoka, so it stands to reason she would suffer the same pitfall, justifying immoral acts for the sake of righteousness.  This often makes excellent villains if they believe the ends always justify the means.  

And that's what we see here.  The ends justifying the means. She's judged them evil because they assist in the perpetuation of suffering, irrespective of whether this was done of their own free will.  To her, cutting them down isn't immoral as it tips the balance toward good.  This is what makes her a "Gray Jedi", neither light nor dark, akin to the Father.  Her not tipping to the dark side like her master before her is undoubtedly an influence of the Daughter, whose sacrifice gave Ahsoka new life.
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But wasn't that whole point of Beskar, grappling hooks, backpack rockets and the like?  These were all gadgets the Mandalorians developed to even the playing field against the Jedi.
That was what I thought. Like the wrist rockets, too many at one time for them to block.

*snip*
Did she have to run through the forest and literally murder a dozen troopers before approaching the gate to give her demands? Couldn't she, basically being an invincible ninja, have crept into the main compound, cut down the two guard droids as she dropped in, reflected a blaster bolt into Michael Biehn's face, and beat down the woman, all before anyone could have realized what had happened? It's happened before, many times in the shows. Sneak in, maybe have to fight out. Instead, she goes all judge, jury, and executioner on a bunch of flunkies first. That also happens a lot. So much for the ideals of the Jedi. More glaring inconsistencies.
*snip*

Actually an interesting thought. No, it wasn't necessary. The thing is though, Ahsoka isn't a Jedi. She never ascended from being a padawan. Her formative years while a padawan were spent almost entirely in war. There's also the influence of her master to be contended with, and I think her behavior here was a nod to Anakin's teachings.  

Think back to Mortis. Anakin embraced the Son because he feared the evil he would become and thought doing so could end evil throughout the galaxy. He justifies betraying Ahsoka and Obi-Wan as being a necessary sacrifice. He was essentially a father to Ahsoka, so it stands to reason she would suffer the same pitfall, justifying immoral acts for the sake of righteousness.  This often makes excellent villains if they believe the ends always justify the means.  

And that's what we see here.  The ends justifying the means. She's judged them evil because they assist in the perpetuation of suffering, irrespective of whether this was done of their own free will.  To her, cutting them down isn't immoral as it tips the balance toward good.  This is what makes her a "Gray Jedi", neither light nor dark, akin to the Father.  Her not tipping to the dark side like her master before her is undoubtedly an influence of the Daughter, whose sacrifice gave Ahsoka new life.

Not an unfair point to make, but it's not just Ahsoka who resorts to the lightsaber without hesitation. The stories, books, movies, and games are filled with such incidents. In the distant past of the EU, the point of a lightsaber was to be able to defend yourself against blasters and to be able to incapacitate your enemy without killing them. It wasn't even considered harsh, considering the advanced state of prosthetics.

Somewhere along the way, that seems to have gotten lost. You don't see it as much in TCW, or Episodes 1, 2, and 3 because Lucas was very careful to make the opponent non-living droids that could be slaughtered at will in cool action scenes. Almost everyone else that gets slaughtered is wearing a mask, or armor and a helmet, or something similar. Essentially the message seems to be "if you don't know who your enemy is, and dehumanize them, it's fine to swing away." Sometimes the Jedi seem very Jedi, and sometimes the plot needs an action scene with lightsabers, so a lot of things die. All I'm saying is it's a bit...inconsistent.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 11:02:46 PM EDT
[#17]
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I finally saw the last episode and think I’m done with the series.

 My overall complaint stands that it’s too neat,too tidy and absolutely nothing of consequence actually happens. It was entertaining enough to watch all of it but I don’t care about the minor characters,especially when nothing is actually a big deal.

 

 
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Well... bye
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 11:05:16 PM EDT
[#18]
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Not an unfair point to make, but it's not just Ahsoka who resorts to the lightsaber without hesitation. The stories, books, movies, and games are filled with such incidents. In the distant past of the EU, the point of a lightsaber was to be able to defend yourself against blasters and to be able to incapacitate your enemy without killing them. It wasn't even considered harsh, considering the advanced state of prosthetics.

Somewhere along the way, that seems to have gotten lost. You don't see it as much in TCW, or Episodes 1, 2, and 3 because Lucas was very careful to make the opponent non-living droids that could be slaughtered at will in cool action scenes. Almost everyone else that gets slaughtered is wearing a mask, or armor and a helmet, or something similar. Essentially the message seems to be "if you don't know who your enemy is, and dehumanize them, it's fine to swing away." Sometimes the Jedi seem very Jedi, and sometimes the plot needs an action scene with lightsabers, so a lot of things die. All I'm saying is it's a bit...inconsistent.
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But wasn't that whole point of Beskar, grappling hooks, backpack rockets and the like?  These were all gadgets the Mandalorians developed to even the playing field against the Jedi.
That was what I thought. Like the wrist rockets, too many at one time for them to block.

*snip*
Did she have to run through the forest and literally murder a dozen troopers before approaching the gate to give her demands? Couldn't she, basically being an invincible ninja, have crept into the main compound, cut down the two guard droids as she dropped in, reflected a blaster bolt into Michael Biehn's face, and beat down the woman, all before anyone could have realized what had happened? It's happened before, many times in the shows. Sneak in, maybe have to fight out. Instead, she goes all judge, jury, and executioner on a bunch of flunkies first. That also happens a lot. So much for the ideals of the Jedi. More glaring inconsistencies.
*snip*

Actually an interesting thought. No, it wasn't necessary. The thing is though, Ahsoka isn't a Jedi. She never ascended from being a padawan. Her formative years while a padawan were spent almost entirely in war. There's also the influence of her master to be contended with, and I think her behavior here was a nod to Anakin's teachings.  

Think back to Mortis. Anakin embraced the Son because he feared the evil he would become and thought doing so could end evil throughout the galaxy. He justifies betraying Ahsoka and Obi-Wan as being a necessary sacrifice. He was essentially a father to Ahsoka, so it stands to reason she would suffer the same pitfall, justifying immoral acts for the sake of righteousness.  This often makes excellent villains if they believe the ends always justify the means.  

And that's what we see here.  The ends justifying the means. She's judged them evil because they assist in the perpetuation of suffering, irrespective of whether this was done of their own free will.  To her, cutting them down isn't immoral as it tips the balance toward good.  This is what makes her a "Gray Jedi", neither light nor dark, akin to the Father.  Her not tipping to the dark side like her master before her is undoubtedly an influence of the Daughter, whose sacrifice gave Ahsoka new life.

Not an unfair point to make, but it's not just Ahsoka who resorts to the lightsaber without hesitation. The stories, books, movies, and games are filled with such incidents. In the distant past of the EU, the point of a lightsaber was to be able to defend yourself against blasters and to be able to incapacitate your enemy without killing them. It wasn't even considered harsh, considering the advanced state of prosthetics.

Somewhere along the way, that seems to have gotten lost. You don't see it as much in TCW, or Episodes 1, 2, and 3 because Lucas was very careful to make the opponent non-living droids that could be slaughtered at will in cool action scenes. Almost everyone else that gets slaughtered is wearing a mask, or armor and a helmet, or something similar. Essentially the message seems to be "if you don't know who your enemy is, and dehumanize them, it's fine to swing away." Sometimes the Jedi seem very Jedi, and sometimes the plot needs an action scene with lightsabers, so a lot of things die. All I'm saying is it's a bit...inconsistent.

Not necessarily. One might argue that Palpatine placing the Jedi in command of the clone troops was a means to corrupt them.  It's hard to be righteous in the middle of battle where compromising one's morals may be necessary to accomplish an objective or where doing so the moral way would inflict a higher cost, which one might argue is itself immoral.

Basically, he forced them into an unending barrage of moral dilemmas.  This would cloud their vision while simultaneously shifting public opinion against the Jedi.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 11:09:27 PM EDT
[#19]
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Sure, with surprise attacks from an unexpected quarter, from people they trusted implicitly after years of fighting alongside them...and because the plot said it had to happen.
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Because the Jedi which have precog abilities all failed to see it happening...

Yes, it needed to happen, but let’s not pretend they are invincible except to other Jedi or Sith.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 11:19:53 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:

I've never understood the hate for Rogue One or even Solo. They are EASILY superior to Episodes 1, 2, 6, 7, 8, and 9. Solo was just fun entertainment in the SW universe, and Rogue One was a good movie that gave us a semi-legitimate reason for the weakness of the first Death Star (even though that doesn't really hold up to serious scrutiny...are we supposed to believe one engineer was completely responsible for the entire design with zero oversight?).

Anyway, I enjoy more SW that isn't total shit, but I really can't wait for them to be done sucking fanboi cock and give up on the Skywalker/Palpatine era and saga.

Lets go back to the Old Republic, or even the High Republic, and tell some original tales with completely new characters we can all grow to love/hate and argue about.
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I was referring to the Rey movies.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 11:20:22 PM EDT
[#21]
Just finished Season 5 of Clone Wars.  Holy fuck, powerful shit.  In the second to last scene, every time the Jedi council spoke, I was yelling, "Fuck you" at the screen.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 11:24:50 PM EDT
[#22]
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Not necessarily. One might argue that Palpatine placing the Jedi in command of the clone troops was a means to corrupt them.  It's hard to be righteous in the middle of battle where compromising one's morals may be necessary to accomplish an objective or where doing so the moral way would inflict a higher cost, which one might argue is itself immoral.

Basically, he forced them into an unending barrage of moral dilemmas.  This would cloud their vision while simultaneously shifting public opinion against the Jedi.
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Plus, Jedi will get killed along the way, making Order 66 that much easier to execute.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 11:26:39 PM EDT
[#23]
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True, but after all the Jedi were wiped out, you could argue she is more of a Jedi than Luke. She certainly had more training.
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Ahsoka wasn't a Jedi, she left the order.



True, but after all the Jedi were wiped out, you could argue she is more of a Jedi than Luke. She certainly had more training.


I was just responding to:

"The same thing happens in the philosophy. The Jedi are supposed to be peacekeepers, non-violent, etc. etc. etc., but they never fail to use violence to solve a problem. They're control freaks, and the instant they feel control slipping away, a lightsaber comes out, and the bodies hit the floor. Or, sometimes, that's the go-to-first. Look at Ahsoka in this season of the Mandalorian."

Without going on a diatribe about people treating the Jedi as a monolithic entity, which is clearly false given all the lore we have.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 11:40:16 PM EDT
[#24]
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I always thought the whole rule of 2 thing was incredibly dumb.  You are trying to take over the entire galaxy with only one sidekick?  Plus, they seem to kick it to the side, whenever they want.

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Without it, the Sith always turned on themselves and the Jedi always put them in check.

With it, they destroyed the Jedi Order. Which is why Darth Bane put it in place.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 11:51:42 PM EDT
[#25]
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 11:53:05 PM EDT
[#26]
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 12:28:31 AM EDT
[#27]
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With Luke screaming "There is no try motherfucker there is only do!"
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I just worry a little that Luke is going to succumb to the abused child syndrome and visit all the abuse Yoda heaped onto him onto poor Baby Yoda.



Its going to suck for Baby Yoda when Luke makes Grogu carry him around in a backpack.  Those little feet are going to be working over time.


With Luke screaming "There is no try motherfucker there is only do!"


“Only Master Windu could use that sort of language. I knew Master Windu. I trained with Master Windu. You are no motherfuckin’ Master Windu.”
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 1:00:02 AM EDT
[#28]
Pretty epic season finale but the beef over the Mandalorian sword wasn't settled. Or did the extended cut after the credits rolled where Fett and his sidekick take the throne settle that part?
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 1:32:56 AM EDT
[#29]
Is there a pared down list of must watch episodes of The Clone Wars, I cant see myself getting through them. I’m like 18 episodes into Season 1 and every time I cue up an episode I turn the TV off.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 1:35:51 AM EDT
[#30]
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Pretty epic season finale but the beef over the Mandalorian sword wasn't settled. Or did the extended cut after the credits rolled where Fett and his sidekick take the throne settle that part?
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Unrelated. That was just a teaser for the new series and Boba getting some long overdue revenge. It occurred at Jabba's palace on Tattooine.

I'd guess Din ends up being the ruler of Mandalore by the time it's all over.  Who knows though.

I can't see Bo-Katan getting the throne or the saber.  Her past is filled with failures. Formerly of the terrorist cult Deathwatch, who were ultimately allied with Maul. It wasn't until he seized control by killing Vizsla that she split off.  She'd also be seen as weak as her claim to the throne would be by relation to the ruler prior to Maul's takeover, her sister Satine, a devout pacifist, who Maul also killed.

Her efforts to remove Maul resulted in masses of clone troopers occupying the planet to aid in his capture, and ultimately it was Ahsoka who accomplished this task.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 1:51:49 AM EDT
[#31]
Has anyone watched the reaction videos on YouTube? Genuine tears from grown men and women, it was honestly beautiful to see. That show really impacted normal fans. The men seemed more impacted by Luke and the women more impacted by the parting of Grogu from Din. However, I saw one generation Z lady cry  when seeing Luke. It’s amazing how much Star Wars resonates with people from multiple generations and walks of life.

Disney executives have no clue how important Luke was to the fan base until now. They’ve got something very powerful. People wanted to see real Luke so badly it was like he was Space Jesus or something. If Disney had treated Luke with that kind of respect they would have made conservatively three times as much money off the sequel trilogy.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 1:57:12 AM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:
Is there a pared down list of must watch episodes of The Clone Wars, I cant see myself getting through them. I’m like 18 episodes into Season 1 and every time I cue up an episode I turn the TV off.
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You have to power through season 1. By season 3 it’s really good. When you get to season 5 it’s epic after you watch season 7 go watch ROTJ and it will impact you more than ever.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 1:59:04 AM EDT
[#33]
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You have to power through season 1. By season 3 it’s really good. When you get to season 5 it’s epic after you watch season 7 go watch ROTJ and it will impact you more than ever.
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Do you really miss out on anything crucial in seasons 1 and 2, because so far I’m not seeing it.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 2:01:44 AM EDT
[#34]
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Do you really miss out on anything crucial in seasons 1 and 2, because so far I’m not seeing it.
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Absolutely. Tons of character introductions and development. If you skip then later episodes could be confusing and you'll think it's just more Mary Sues.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 2:07:58 AM EDT
[#35]
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Absolutely. Tons of character introductions and development. If you skip then later episodes could be confusing and you'll think it's just more Mary Sues.
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Thanks, if I get COVID and am bedridden maybe I’ll watch it.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 2:31:46 AM EDT
[#36]
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Quoted:
Is there a pared down list of must watch episodes of The Clone Wars, I cant see myself getting through them. I’m like 18 episodes into Season 1 and every time I cue up an episode I turn the TV off.
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I felt much like you.  I was watching season 1 thinking I had been duped.  In season 2 it gets a bit more adult and some of the themes are more mature.  The writing is quite a bit better.  It’s more than just Skyguy and his precocious little Padawan getting into more zany trouble.

Granted there are some throw away episodes, “The Zillo Beast” for instance but I’m actually enjoying it now whereas I also found season 1 hard to watch.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 3:18:39 AM EDT
[#37]
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Not necessarily. One might argue that Palpatine placing the Jedi in command of the clone troops was a means to corrupt them.  It's hard to be righteous in the middle of battle where compromising one's morals may be necessary to accomplish an objective or where doing so the moral way would inflict a higher cost, which one might argue is itself immoral.

Basically, he forced them into an unending barrage of moral dilemmas.  This would cloud their vision while simultaneously shifting public opinion against the Jedi.
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But wasn't that whole point of Beskar, grappling hooks, backpack rockets and the like?  These were all gadgets the Mandalorians developed to even the playing field against the Jedi.
That was what I thought. Like the wrist rockets, too many at one time for them to block.

*snip*
Did she have to run through the forest and literally murder a dozen troopers before approaching the gate to give her demands? Couldn't she, basically being an invincible ninja, have crept into the main compound, cut down the two guard droids as she dropped in, reflected a blaster bolt into Michael Biehn's face, and beat down the woman, all before anyone could have realized what had happened? It's happened before, many times in the shows. Sneak in, maybe have to fight out. Instead, she goes all judge, jury, and executioner on a bunch of flunkies first. That also happens a lot. So much for the ideals of the Jedi. More glaring inconsistencies.
*snip*

Actually an interesting thought. No, it wasn't necessary. The thing is though, Ahsoka isn't a Jedi. She never ascended from being a padawan. Her formative years while a padawan were spent almost entirely in war. There's also the influence of her master to be contended with, and I think her behavior here was a nod to Anakin's teachings.  

Think back to Mortis. Anakin embraced the Son because he feared the evil he would become and thought doing so could end evil throughout the galaxy. He justifies betraying Ahsoka and Obi-Wan as being a necessary sacrifice. He was essentially a father to Ahsoka, so it stands to reason she would suffer the same pitfall, justifying immoral acts for the sake of righteousness.  This often makes excellent villains if they believe the ends always justify the means.  

And that's what we see here.  The ends justifying the means. She's judged them evil because they assist in the perpetuation of suffering, irrespective of whether this was done of their own free will.  To her, cutting them down isn't immoral as it tips the balance toward good.  This is what makes her a "Gray Jedi", neither light nor dark, akin to the Father.  Her not tipping to the dark side like her master before her is undoubtedly an influence of the Daughter, whose sacrifice gave Ahsoka new life.

Not an unfair point to make, but it's not just Ahsoka who resorts to the lightsaber without hesitation. The stories, books, movies, and games are filled with such incidents. In the distant past of the EU, the point of a lightsaber was to be able to defend yourself against blasters and to be able to incapacitate your enemy without killing them. It wasn't even considered harsh, considering the advanced state of prosthetics.

Somewhere along the way, that seems to have gotten lost. You don't see it as much in TCW, or Episodes 1, 2, and 3 because Lucas was very careful to make the opponent non-living droids that could be slaughtered at will in cool action scenes. Almost everyone else that gets slaughtered is wearing a mask, or armor and a helmet, or something similar. Essentially the message seems to be "if you don't know who your enemy is, and dehumanize them, it's fine to swing away." Sometimes the Jedi seem very Jedi, and sometimes the plot needs an action scene with lightsabers, so a lot of things die. All I'm saying is it's a bit...inconsistent.

Not necessarily. One might argue that Palpatine placing the Jedi in command of the clone troops was a means to corrupt them.  It's hard to be righteous in the middle of battle where compromising one's morals may be necessary to accomplish an objective or where doing so the moral way would inflict a higher cost, which one might argue is itself immoral.

Basically, he forced them into an unending barrage of moral dilemmas.  This would cloud their vision while simultaneously shifting public opinion against the Jedi.

So, what you're saying is, the Jedi couldn't hold to their morals in the face of adversity. Which means, they have no morals. They just pretend to, until it's inconvenient.

A great analogy to everything in human history, and great writing. Unfortunately, when you let 100 writers do whatever they want, inconsistencies arise.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 3:21:11 AM EDT
[#38]
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Quoted:


I felt much like you.  I was watching season 1 thinking I had been duped.  In season 2 it gets a bit more adult and some of the themes are more mature.  The writing is quite a bit better.  It’s more than just Skyguy and his precocious little Padawan getting into more zany trouble.

Granted there are some throw away episodes, “The Zillo Beast” for instance but I’m actually enjoying it now whereas I also found season 1 hard to watch.
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Is there a pared down list of must watch episodes of The Clone Wars, I cant see myself getting through them. I’m like 18 episodes into Season 1 and every time I cue up an episode I turn the TV off.


I felt much like you.  I was watching season 1 thinking I had been duped.  In season 2 it gets a bit more adult and some of the themes are more mature.  The writing is quite a bit better.  It’s more than just Skyguy and his precocious little Padawan getting into more zany trouble.

Granted there are some throw away episodes, “The Zillo Beast” for instance but I’m actually enjoying it now whereas I also found season 1 hard to watch.

There's a lot of "throwaway" episodes, but even in those there's usually some form of plot/character development for the overall series. Skipping them just leads to confusion. If you really can't be bothered to sit through a 20-minute episode that you don't really think you like a few times a season, how do you get through ANY SHOW on modern media today? If you like every single episode of a series, it probably means every single episode of a series is exactly the same.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 3:28:52 AM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:

Absolutely. Tons of character introductions and development. If you skip then later episodes could be confusing and you'll think it's just more Mary Sues.
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Do you really miss out on anything crucial in seasons 1 and 2, because so far I'm not seeing it.

Absolutely. Tons of character introductions and development. If you skip then later episodes could be confusing and you'll think it's just more Mary Sues.
And if you've already watch all The Mandalorian episodes then you have a year to catch up on TCW and Rebels.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 8:00:28 AM EDT
[#40]
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 8:05:16 AM EDT
[#41]
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How about a supercut of all the important shit? There are versions of the prequals cut down to just the Jedi stuff without podracing.
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Is there a pared down list of must watch episodes of The Clone Wars, I cant see myself getting through them. I’m like 18 episodes into Season 1 and every time I cue up an episode I turn the TV off.


I felt much like you.  I was watching season 1 thinking I had been duped.  In season 2 it gets a bit more adult and some of the themes are more mature.  The writing is quite a bit better.  It’s more than just Skyguy and his precocious little Padawan getting into more zany trouble.

Granted there are some throw away episodes, “The Zillo Beast” for instance but I’m actually enjoying it now whereas I also found season 1 hard to watch.

There's a lot of "throwaway" episodes, but even in those there's usually some form of plot/character development for the overall series. Skipping them just leads to confusion. If you really can't be bothered to sit through a 20-minute episode that you don't really think you like a few times a season, how do you get through ANY SHOW on modern media today? If you like every single episode of a series, it probably means every single episode of a series is exactly the same.


How about a supercut of all the important shit? There are versions of the prequals cut down to just the Jedi stuff without podracing.

I think there's a category in D+ that has a collection  of the major episodes.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 8:51:48 AM EDT
[#42]
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There's a lot of "throwaway" episodes, but even in those there's usually some form of plot/character development for the overall series. Skipping them just leads to confusion. If you really can't be bothered to sit through a 20-minute episode that you don't really think you like a few times a season, how do you get through ANY SHOW on modern media today? If you like every single episode of a series, it probably means every single episode of a series is exactly the same.
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But, it’s still 133 episodes. Not just one each week, or a season or two. That’s a lot of viewing time.

In the run up to Endgame, I caught up on the essential movies in about six weeks, and it was a chore. A fun chore, but an effort nonetheless. I had seen Iron Man, Captain America I, and Avengers I at that point. I watched Thor, Winter Soldier, Ultron, Civil War, Black Panther, Ragnarok, Ant Man and Infinity War in that time.   I missed a lot of the fun by not watching it spread out over the years and catching all the reveals and references.

I feel like watching TCW now would provide some background, but I have already missed the magic.

And when I tried watching a couple years ago, even my toddlers didn’t like season 1, and they only cared about motion and color then.

If I get injured, or quarantined, I might watch. But I’m just as likely to read the Wikipedia summaries.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 9:44:59 AM EDT
[#43]
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Unrelated. That was just a teaser for the new series and Boba getting some long overdue revenge. It occurred at Jabba's palace on Tattooine.

I'd guess Din ends up being the ruler of Mandalore by the time it's all over.  Who knows though.

I can't see Bo-Katan getting the throne or the saber.  Her past is filled with failures. Formerly of the terrorist cult Deathwatch, who were ultimately allied with Maul. It wasn't until he seized control by killing Vizsla that she split off.  She'd also be seen as weak as her claim to the throne would be by relation to the ruler prior to Maul's takeover, her sister Satine, a devout pacifist, who Maul also killed.

Her efforts to remove Maul resulted in masses of clone troopers occupying the planet to aid in his capture, and ultimately it was Ahsoka who accomplished this task.
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Maybe Grogu will be considered a foundling and he'll receive the Darksaber after his training is complete, making him the ruler.  

(Okay, probably not. )
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 9:52:56 AM EDT
[#44]
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Then I'm out. His survival makes Anakin's sacrifice meaningless.
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A fair point. He seemed enamored with his former master's plan once he realized how it was to unfold.  Almost giddy about finally understanding how every piece of the puzzle fit together. His own lust for power put him on a collision course with Sidious though as he was causing trouble and drawing attention.  

Still, a story told from his point of view would be amazing, even if it casts him as an antihero. He's not though, cause he's a Sith. Doing good is not in their nature.  It would be far more interesting exploring his rule of Mandalore and control of the various crime families. Basically a space Godfather, I guess.


Covered in spice like Al Pacino in Scarface?

Well...  he was working with the Pikes.


One of my issues with Maul was they did not give him an apprentice after The Clone Wars....he was trying to corrupt Ezra in Rebels...but to me giving him an apprentice to carry on the Sith after the death of Palpatine and Vader was a mistake....and a scene at the end of TRoS with Maul's apprentice and an apprentice to him/her would have been interesting.

That would have been infinitely better than recycling Sidious.  Unlike his former master, Maul sought to consolidate power throughout the underworld to have the hidden power and influence of the crime families for himself. He, and his successor(s), would have been formidable opponents with that kind of backing.  Further, unlike Palpatine, he could openly threaten innocents to use as leverage, effectively holding entire planets as hostages.

Hell, with just his little impromptu coalition he was able to conquer Mandalore remarkably quick.  Imagine if he could have expanded that power throughout the outer rim.


Sidious would still have been recycled...I am just saying a scene at the end after Sidious is killed and the big victory celebration they cut back to Exegol and we see that the Sith are not dead because of Maul's line of Sith Lords.

Then I'm out. His survival makes Anakin's sacrifice meaningless.


The whole ST was crap...yes is should have been a different story...but my thinking about this is that the Sith should never be completely gone.  That's why I wanted Maul to have an apprentice.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 9:54:07 AM EDT
[#45]
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Quoted:


Without it, the Sith always turned on themselves and the Jedi always put them in check.

With it, they destroyed the Jedi Order. Which is why Darth Bane put it in place.
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I understand the history of it, it seems like it is easily cast aside whenever they want.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 10:06:18 AM EDT
[#46]
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 10:06:24 AM EDT
[#47]
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One man's terrorist is another man's Founding Fathers
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The Rebels were, are and always have been space terrorists.


One man's terrorist is another man's Founding Fathers

That is absolutely true.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 10:07:47 AM EDT
[#48]
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This EP of Mando was the best Star Wars since the Vader scene in Rogue one. R1 was a great SW movie. This EP is how SW movies should be made.



Anyone else thing we will see a Jedi Academy? Luke, Grogu, Kylo and a few others. Will Grogu escape Kylo's wrath?
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STOP with this shit. Just STOP. Kylo and everyone associated with those shit movies do not exist.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 10:26:55 AM EDT
[#49]
The Book of Boba Fett is now confirmed as a standalone show set in the same time frame as The Mandalorian.

...

The Book of Boba Fett will be set within the timeline of The Mandalorian and star Temuera Morrison as the titular bounty hunter, along with Ming-Na Wen as Fennec Shand. Robert Rodriguez  who directed Chapter 14 of The Mandalorian, a thrilling installment that reintroduced Boba Fett to the Star Wars galaxy  joins Favreau and Dave Filoni as executive producer.

...
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Link Posted: 12/21/2020 10:37:51 AM EDT
[#50]
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Absolutely! I get that. This entire 187-page thread is nothing but people's opinions. I have mine, you have yours. We're coming from completely different SW experiences, so...  

Everyone can agree how much Boba Flabb sucks though.

Goddamn. His name just lends itself so readily to ridicule. So far I've used
Boba Fat
Boba Flab
Blowba Fett
and my personal favorite,
Blobba the Fett

I might be about out of them though. Anyone else got any? Bubba Fett maybe?
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. Season two took that fresh bread and made stale croutons out of it. In my opinion, that's down to two things:

Number one, it was like watching a second season of Picard. Every single episode seemed to include cameo appearances from Riker, Troi, Seven of Nine, Hugh, etc., culminating with the ultimate fanboi service, a horribly CGI's Luke Skywalker. Although I was excited at the rumors of Ahsoka's return, Bo-Katan, etc., in the end it felt like force-fed nostalgia. It sucked the originality out of the show.


As somebody who never watched the animated series but knows a few things, and as my wife knows next to jack shit about SW outside the original three, we didn't find those stale or force fed. Because we don't really know those stories. Those are going to be new and interesting stories to most people.

Force feeding it would've been if Han had shown up, or when they shoved the two guys from the Mos Eisely cantina into Rogue One.

Absolutely! I get that. This entire 187-page thread is nothing but people's opinions. I have mine, you have yours. We're coming from completely different SW experiences, so...  

Everyone can agree how much Boba Flabb sucks though.

Goddamn. His name just lends itself so readily to ridicule. So far I've used
Boba Fat
Boba Flab
Blowba Fett
and my personal favorite,
Blobba the Fett

I might be about out of them though. Anyone else got any? Bubba Fett maybe?


Bubba Fett.  
Maybe they can make his throne into a rocker, and one of his minions can sit at his feet plucking a space banjo.  

You got a purty mouth on ya!  

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