In the past, I was looking at employment for the LE agencies in DC since their pay is fantastic. But when I looked at the cost of living, I said screw that. Sure, I could've made $100k easily pre-Trump (that's when I was looking) but $100k even back then in the DC metro area was nothing.

LOL, not in LE.

@N1Rampage, DeSantis didn't suppress teacher pay. He rose it to $47,500. Prior to him, it was less. You do know how our system of government works, right? The legislature passes a bill setting teacher pay and the governor signs it. DeSantis lobbied for more pay, the legislature gave him that.

@peacematu, bachelor's is required to get a teaching cert in FL.

Hate to break it to ya. Getting fat is cheap.  You buy boxes of processed shit food for 1.50 a box. To make the equivalent from. Fresh food, it's 15.00.


Do a lap around the perimeter of your local chain grocer.  Those are the relatively healthy food. Now look at the prices down the isles.  Make s3nse now?

I am a fat, who has recently made the switch to eating healthy and losing weight.  I spend 2 to 2 5 times more on food a month now.

That said, we can't get people to work for 25 bucks an hour. Part of it is the requirements have gone up for menial work.  Around here, they want a college degree to be a secretary. Employers have an unreasonable expectation of new hires in some fields.

@SavedByTheBlood, have you seen the price of spam? That shit is a luxury now.

The political right wants 5 star services at 1 star prices.

That is a holdover of gatekeepers by boomers @CSeaBass. Starting in the late 80s and early 90s. Boomers in management positions started changing the requirements for jobs, all while insulating themselves and exempting themselves via grandfathering their positions. It was done to make it harder for younger workers to apply for their positions. It has since carried over to just about everything now.

I've seen cases where job postings require an exorbitant amount of experience and degrees/certs and pay shit. It turns people away, and allows companies to hire H1Bs at a cheaper price than American labor.

The decades of witnessing corporate America and Government screwing the working class over softened us up, but 2020 was the final blow.  COVID and the "Summer of Love" broke people.  Morale and trust in the establishment is at an all time low.  Nobody wants to work for the Devil, and those that do are 100% in it for themselves.  Zero loyalty because the working class knows that the establishment will fuck you over the instant it is politically or monetarily expedient to do so.  Many would rather stay in their parent's basement or work just enough to be able to afford shelter, food, recreational drugs, and a device that allows them to go online and get the dopamine hits they need to keep from roping themselves.

The train is already off the tracks and careening into a ravine, but it will take a while before it finally crashes into the dirt.  Hopefully something better springs up from the ashes of the bullshit clown world we are currently in.

Which is a big part of why illegal immigration will never truly be fixed.

Here in FL, some of the loudest MAGA flag wavers that scream "shut the border!" Are also the ones who hire a shit ton of illegals to work their agricultural and construction businesses.

A lot of places here are crying about wanting help, but either pay shit wages or are just collecting applications and doing nothing with them.

Exactly like my former employer.

At least once a week during meetings, the issue of being understaffed came up.
The execs were utterly baffled as to why.

I kept my mouth shut, as I am not suitably credentialed with an MBA.

In a lot of areas it's because the pay for those positions would not allow someone to live within realistic commuting distances. Add the price of gas to commute, and for a lot of low level jobs it just doesn't make sense to even bother. You're better off finding something that has true growth potential, pays better, or is at least fun.

Oftentimes positions are listed with low pay, extremely high qualifications, and other absurd factors like 24/7 availability just to justify the use of foreign workers.

As for police, I don't think that is just an economic issue. In similar areas where pay and benefits are similar you don't see that trouble with recruitment for similar government jobs (e.g. fire or EMS).

2020 was also the time many long-time established employees that could swing it bailed, at least in my industry.  The people that replace them only last a few months before they bail too.  Tons of knowledge and experience has been lost in such a short time.  Our department has been the exception to this phenomenon but everything and everyone around us is a complete shitshow.

My Boss(as in owner of company) is very maga and very well connected. Company recently got audited by immigration and was told we couldn’t keep certain guys as employees because they were illegals. Now he’s gone and done some shady stuff and has a few guys that are foremans working as subcontractors and he is still paying the same illegals through these foremen. The foremen are also still being paid as regular employees as well.


Idk why immigration hasn’t deported these known illegals. Personally I think the employment audit was politically motivated hence the lack of deportation.

Covid stimulus's are over and whatever welfare programs are there are largely the same as it was pre covid. So while there is a problem with paying people not to work that was already the case and I don't think it explains the increase in worker shortage.

Covid and the vaccines killed some, many more choose early retirement and didn't come back, many more decided one income was enough and one parent decided to stay home with the kids especially after being forced to for awhile with everything shut down. They realized they could make it on one income and they liked it.

More an increase in young people staying home with mom and dad and all added up equals what we have.

tl;dr: YOLO, and damn the long-term consequences, because you can't change those anyway.

Most of what I'm saying applies to retail, factories, etc. I know cops who say it's nearly impossible to get candidates. I've heard the same from factory workers. I can't speak to teachers.

Having lived in poor, rural America for my entire life, the thing that seems to have shifted with COVID and young people is the willingness to sacrifice (for those at entry level), and the unwillingness to pay (for those with the jobs).

Young people have come to realize that you can live pretty cheaply, and side gigs and income are easy to come by. A cash side gig is easier than ever....we're all getting used to things like Instacart, Doordash, and Uber, so the idea that a person could/does this is common now. Yes, those companies report employee income. No, not everyone plays along. There are cash tips in person, and people who do it on the side for a few people they know. Cash-under-the-table has been a thing approximately forever, but it's gotten easier and more pervasive.

Then there's creator crap. There are some really good creators on YouTube, Insta, etc., but social media has pushed towards ever shorter attention spans, so outrageous positions are what gets attention, and young people are certainly strong in their beliefs.

And then you have OnlyFans. In a world of free porn, it's hard to understand why people would pay money for it, but there it is.

If you're young, and you have a place to crash, and you don't need health insurance, you can make a little money, travel pretty cheap, and generally enjoy life. It's also easier than ever to buy the things that numb you...marijuana is essentially legal at this point, regardless of what club Fed thinks. That combination makes this a viable short-term choice.

Let's not forget that college is beginning to be seen for what it is...valuable to some people, at the right price point, but that's far from a given. Student loans are a complete shitshow. At some point, we're going to have to decide what our policy towards secondary education will be in America. For now, it's political football, with imported workers taking ever more good jobs that we aren't reliably producing candidates to fill.

The problem with all of this is that it needs to be a short-term view. I don't even think it's a bad idea for young people to go and have experiences while they can. Good for them. I wish I had done more of that. That said, it's physically, mentally, and emotionally harder to start your career at 30 than it is at 20. Here in the US, healthcare is typically an employer-provided benefit, and one that becomes much more important as we age. Starting your career at 30 with entry-level work, no education, no retirement savings, and the beginnings of health problems is a sure way to ensure you're poor forever. The healthcare system is literally designed to bankrupt people without insurance, and if you don't believe that, try having a health problem without it.

You might argue that the solution is to get a job and work your way up. The problem is that increasingly, there ISN'T a way up. You can be a responsible employee, who shows up, does a good job, and generally does the right things, and you can easily end up having a boss fresh out of college, with no experience, who runs the place into the ground (and likely gets promoted faster). They rolled the dice on a degree, and it's anyone's guess whether it will pay off for them or not, but they're going places you aren't. You're not going anywhere. They might be going up, but it probably isn't far enough, fast enough. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Guess who's laughing all the way to the bank?

IMO, what's really happening is that the idea of a meritocracy is being replaced by social cliques. Who you know has always been a thing, but we're getting to a point where we have a ruling class that isn't fit to rule.

With the name - ramairthree - either you are a young guy who likes old Pontiacs or you are a Boomer too.

The Boomers had the draft, Vietnam, limited information (no internet) and expensive communication.

In many ways there are way more opportunities for people today.  The society has decayed but that is another topic.

Sure prices were lower but so were wages.

I was too young for Vietnam but entered the working world during the high interest rate stagflation period of the early 1980's.  Not an easy time to find a good job.

There are slackers in every generation.

Here's an example of shitty wages. Saw this during my travels through the state.

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Average median price for a home in the area is hovering around $400k.

I wouldn't be a cop for double that. Jesus christ.

I have seen or heard of it in Tech, Transportation/Shipping, and Manufacturing.

You can make similar working at Buckeys.

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A gas station company offers similar pay and benefits, with far less stress and danger. And agencies in FL wonder why they can't attract talent.

You get what you pay for.

Welcome to much of the Pac NW.

That pension seems awful damn good though.

Think its why total compensation is pushed honestly.

With respect to society, quite honestly it seems like an additional class came out of this. Those that bought their house before 2020 at the old money, and those that are having to buy houses at current valuations.

I would never relocate for a job because it's common practice for companies to have annual layoffs (the company I'm at now does layoffs twice a year.)

Its like all the CalPERS people, many of them retire, but in my view you work it just long enough to spike your pension. Then you retire to a less cost of living state/work there as you are the only one who can afford a house.

Owning rental homes in a population loss state like Michigan negates one of the biggest advantages. The home increasing in value.

Barely breaking even on rent is just fine if the house doubles in value every 10-years

It has always been a game of "not what you know but who you know." That existed long before I was sucking oxygen. Ivy League schools have always been about that. Meritocracy has never existed for the most part. For as long as time has existed, social cliques have existed.

People here are bitching about this being a new and current issue. Look at the film Falling Down. It was released in 1993, meaning it scripted, produced, and filmed earlier than that. The story is about a middle-aged man getting fucked over by work, the courts, society, etc... and he has a mental health crisis and goes nuts because of it.

Middle-aged in was someone who was between aged about 45 to 55 in 1993. And that was a topic in society then to the point that they made a film about it.

The difference then versus now is younger folks instead of saying "fuck it, I guess this is it" and accepting the shitty rat-race. Instead, they're doing something different. They aren't caring about keeping up with the Jones and getting in debt for materialistic consumerism. They're living life on their terms.

The post WWII lifestyle of materialistic consumerism is coming to an end because the entire artificially inflated system that supported it is crashing.

Good grief. Give me those options and I'll take Buc-ees every day of the week and twice on Saturday.

That's what all the folks from the NE do. They collect their fat pensions, sell their shitty places for over $750k, and move to FL, driving up home prices. To them, $500k for a house is a steal, all while the locals are fucked because median pay here is under $50k a year.

Staring pay for FL Dept. of Corrections.



Most state agencies don't have built in longevity step raises. Raises are either through positional promotional (meaning promoted to higher rank) or through an act of the legislature.

Good to know. I knew Yankees were going to Florida, but was unaware it was as bad as Californians on the west coast.

Straight up going to use that on my mother in law.   She will have a fit.

Jesus,  it is $50,760 here.

With the cost of housing, and how sucky DOC work is, corrections in general it makes me go WTF.

ETA: the other trouble is, you might could pay your bills on that salary, but are you putting enough back in retirement to even have a chance when you reach that age?

Minimum salary to afford Miami is $60k and that's living like a bum in a ratty apartment with nothing but romen noodles to eat and no entertainment as one person. Add kids and a wife... you're fucked. FL Highway Patrol pays less than that.

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That's why Troopers work every off-duty detail they can and are burnt out. Monroe County.... LOL.

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Probably not. God help you if you have an unforseen medical expense.

I've noticed this trend for a while now job hunting on LinkedIn. I see job posts that have been posted for 2-4 weeks and have 400-500 applicants, yet they stay up for another 2-4 weeks.

I applied for a job that was posted 3-weeks ago. The role is for the exact same role I have today, with our number one competitor. I have displaced many of their customers and actively sell against them every single day. I meet every single requirement on the job listing, yet I can't get a call back from anyone there.

I believe companies are gaining something by having X number of job postings, and have no intention of filling them. I just don't know what it is.

Turn on, tune in, drop out.

Without the acid.

It's only $40k here.

There's something definitely up with this phenomenon. I have 20 years experience in my field. I've been working independently for 4 years, started that just before the COVID crap started (great timing, /s). It's been a rollercoaster and I have been applying to corporate jobs for the past 6 months. Few call backs and the postings just stay up for months?!?

Off the top of my head COL (housing) is around half in Georgia what it is here though...

The other issue I see with not making a six figure salary, is these folks are not gonna be able to save anything for retirement. I think in 30 years, the retire at 55-65 American dream will be gone. What likely will be a thing will be multifamily living, ie older side owning the housing and having the younger family members live on the property/in the home for affordable rent.

Nope. But I have seen jobs in the above category that include law enforcement as a preferred background.

More and more of civilization seems to be becoming a cargo cult. People going through the motions, not understanding how anything works and hoping that more "cargo" will fall from the sky and everything will somehow work out.

It's very different than covid 2020. That was when I was last looking for a job, and it was the opposite of this. Fewer job postings, but TONS of callbacks and interviews, but everyone was hesitant to pull the trigger. It was like the whole world was put on pause while people waited to see what would happen next.

Today, there are TONS of job postings, but zero callbacks and interviews. They're not even pretending to play they game anymore.

@Extorris, and compared to some of the municipal and sheriff agencies in GA. $40k for corrections is considered "good" pay.

I think what he's also noticing, is that companies aren't adding more cargo anymore. For some reason they want it to look like they're trying to add cargo, but very few are actually doing it.

I just can't figure out what incentive these companies have for keeping job postings open, and not filling them.

@Chromekilla, that's how it was before WWII in the US for the most part. a multi-generational family lived in the same home/property. The elderly watched the young ones and the working aged folks worked.

People are going through the motions as if it is still the economic global and political environment/situation of the 1980s/1990s. Times are changing.

And plenty of corporations who are still LARPing their hiring processes like its 1937

H1B Visas. If jobs are kept open and not filled, these companies can state American labor can't fill it and they need to import cheaper foreign labor. These companies want cheaper workers so they can have larger quarterly profits to pad their CEO golden parachutes.