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Posted: 8/4/2023 4:07:49 PM EDT
[#1]
Lol why is there so much corporate cock sucking here?
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Posted: 8/4/2023 4:09:04 PM EDT
[#2]
UAW = U Ain't Workin' |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 4:10:08 PM EDT
[#3]
This is why they keep unloading more and more of their engineering to low cost countries
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Posted: 8/4/2023 4:25:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol why is there so much corporate cock sucking here? I don't know what their pension and healthcare plans look like. In my area, the UAW healthcare and pension plans are not golden...they're made of platinum. The few workers I know, all bitch about pay and due to the union structure...some are underpaid (like automation engineers, maintenance). The problem is, and I've told them this, is that they carry way too much dead weight. The fellas I know are hard workers, but they will readily admit that many of their union brothers are lazy POS's who game the system the day after they clear probation period. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 4:27:57 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never hurts to ask. At a certain point, I disagree. Become too outrageous and management no longer just laughs you off, they retaliate |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 4:32:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At a certain point, I disagree. Become too outrageous and management no longer just laughs you off, they retaliate Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Never hurts to ask. At a certain point, I disagree. Become too outrageous and management no longer just laughs you off, they retaliate Are corporations known to be fair otherwise? They treat people with respect? Isn't there a huge culture pushing back against them as we speak? Haven't they done as much damage as deep state? I don't get the love for them at all. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 4:40:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol why is there so much corporate cock sucking here? It isn't one or the other. They can both suck equally for entirely different reason. I'll give you this...at least the union guys aren't selling out the entire population by moving production off shore. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 4:46:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It isn't one or the other. They can both suck equally for entirely different reason. I'll give you this...at least the union guys aren't selling out the entire population by moving production off shore. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lol why is there so much corporate cock sucking here? It isn't one or the other. They can both suck equally for entirely different reason. I'll give you this...at least the union guys aren't selling out the entire population by moving production off shore. Totally agree but most on here seem to take one side or the other and its sickening to watch them simp for corporations ....both suck but imo corporations have done far more damage. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 5:03:43 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And yet, the endorsements and donations keep flowing. Someone among the membership must be okay with it. Depending on a Union's Constitution and bylaws it CAN be difficult but not impossible to shift top leadership in order to change entrenched positions. I know that my union at the State leadership level endorsed and gave the maximum 5k donation to Kari Lake. Regardless at how that election has shook out, you might be surprised at what doors that has opened and continues to open at the State Capital. In many, but not all ways we need to stop with the old thinking and start with the new. The old battle lines are no more. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 5:13:52 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is how you get your auto makers to pack up and move to Mexico.  |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 5:16:08 PM EDT
[#11]
work slower, join a union
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Posted: 8/4/2023 5:18:13 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just like we’re all about to earn 120 month financing on auto loans, right? That’s a feature not a bug. Just think what it will do for your credit score. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 5:18:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Why not 400%? No cajones?
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Posted: 8/4/2023 5:22:31 PM EDT
[#14]
This is why these jobs get "relocated," to Mexico and then they bitch. Sounds reasonable at first, sure, but in a year or two they'll be back for more. Unions are the mirror image of "if you give a mouse a cookie". They outlived their usefulness and now it's all a greedy money grab. FUCK UNIONS. And if you don't like that statement, I don't care because you're likely a union teat sucker. Yeah, I said it and I'll own it.
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Posted: 8/4/2023 5:25:14 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is far from typical. I haven't seen an initial ask like this in the 40 years that I've been around the industry as best I can recall. I'm sure the exploding cost of living has nothing at all to do with it. And either way it's an "ask" that has yet to evolve into, and likely never will, a hard "40% or we strike!" ultimatum... |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 5:28:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As I say in every union thread, the democrats in congress and the president should force a shitty agreement on them. Hehe I've seen it done... And you can rest assured I've used it to bludgeon the handful of 'diehard' dems in my local. 
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Posted: 8/4/2023 6:32:13 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Article says 20% now and 5% per year for four years. Article also says pay is $18-32 per hour - considering I can get $16/hour at chik-fil-a it doesn't sound as outrageous as thread title makes it sound. Chick-fil-a workers are probably more skilled. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 6:36:09 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they automakers were smart (LOL) they would happily trade 40% for better ability to fire terrible employees. But they aren't, so the big three are likely to go the way of Sears. This is the correct response based on my experience with unionized auto workers. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 6:37:35 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Another knee-jerk GD reaction. While some union leadership MAY have democrat ties, union membership is no longer a safe democrat vote stronghold. In fact, it is just the opposite. I work in a union shop and while there are some dyed in the wool democrats, the majority are not, and some would make GD look tame in their conspiracy theories and .gov hate. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Article says 20% now and 5% per year for four years. Article also says pay is $18-32 per hour - considering I can get $16/hour at chik-fil-a it doesn't sound as outrageous as thread title makes it sound. This is GD. Mention any union and the hate blathering goes into hyperdrive. Most likely the UAW will not get that but something less. MAYBE 15% then 3.5% each year but most likely nothing greater than 10% first year. Where the gains will be could be on the non-monetary side. People tend to ignore this, but non-financial gains can be quite good to have in a union contract. Couldn't have anything to do with their universal support for dems could it? Another knee-jerk GD reaction. While some union leadership MAY have democrat ties, union membership is no longer a safe democrat vote stronghold. In fact, it is just the opposite. I work in a union shop and while there are some dyed in the wool democrats, the majority are not, and some would make GD look tame in their conspiracy theories and .gov hate. Been hearing this same drivel for at least 20 years, it's bullshit. Unions have and continue to primarily fund and vote for democrats. Hell, the votes don't even really matter that much any more - the dems just need to keep the union leadership in their pockets for that sweet union cheddar. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 6:41:30 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It isn't one or the other. They can both suck equally for entirely different reason. I'll give you this...at least the union guys aren't selling out the entire population by moving production off shore. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lol why is there so much corporate cock sucking here? It isn't one or the other. They can both suck equally for entirely different reason. I'll give you this...at least the union guys aren't selling out the entire population by moving production off shore. They're just funding the onshoring of the immigrant hordes to replace all the American workforce. 
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Posted: 8/4/2023 6:44:16 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are corporations known to be fair otherwise? They treat people with respect? Isn't there a huge culture pushing back against them as we speak? Haven't they done as much damage as deep state? I don't get the love for them at all. If these people are treated SOOOOOOOOOOO unfairly, why are they there? I have an idea. You go 30 days without using or consuming anything that was produced by a corporation. After that if you haven't starved to death, let me know how you feel about corporations, then. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 6:44:47 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Article says 20% now and 5% per year for four years. Article also says pay is $18-32 per hour - considering I can get $16/hour at chik-fil-a it doesn't sound as outrageous as thread title makes it sound. That's very reasonable, sounds like they are underpaid. A lot of fast food is paying $20+. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 6:46:59 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure the exploding cost of living has nothing at all to do with it. And either way it's an "ask" that has yet to evolve into, and likely never will, a hard "40% or we strike!" ultimatum... The companies should send a counter-offer of a 40% decrease in wages. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 6:49:45 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are corporations known to be fair otherwise? They treat people with respect? Isn't there a huge culture pushing back against them as we speak? Haven't they done as much damage as deep state? I don't get the love for them at all. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Never hurts to ask. At a certain point, I disagree. Become too outrageous and management no longer just laughs you off, they retaliate Are corporations known to be fair otherwise? They treat people with respect? Isn't there a huge culture pushing back against them as we speak? Haven't they done as much damage as deep state? I don't get the love for them at all. Why aren't all the union lackeys starting their own corporations and creating worker utopias to show us how it's done? Y'all been bitching for 100 years how fucking great you are and how you carry every company, yet you don't do the one thing that can stop the bitching??? |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 6:52:19 PM EDT
[#25]
Fuck 'em.
I'm buying a new Nissan Frontier. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 6:52:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's very reasonable, sounds like they are underpaid. A lot of fast food is paying $20+. First, of all, no it's not. The average is something like $25,000/year ($12/hour). What does "underpaid" even mean? If they could get a better deal somewhere else, they would. UAW workers should probably earn much less than fast food workers. 1) Fast Food has a social stigma associated with it that manufacturing does not 2) They require the same amount of skill 3) Fast food is much grosser and more strenuous. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 6:57:04 PM EDT
[#27]
The national debt is out of control. The two obvious ways out are inflation and default.
We are currently trying inflation. Inflation is like saying, "Yes, we told you would pay you $1 Trillion. And, we will, but when we pay it back, $1T will buy ONE electric power plant." Inflation will ripple through everywhere. Consumer prices, wholesale prices, energy, wages, etc. I think the UAW will get a large portion of what they are asking for. Some years from now, the auto manufacturers will be asking for another taxpayer bailout. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 6:58:58 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: they may get the pay hike short term, but long term the company will just expand their production in mexico and lay off UAW workers this inflation is not sustainable , and there will be a lot of pain In a lot of cases, inflation has morphed into easy reasons for raising prices and making more profit (but perhaps not just reasonable profit but record breaking greed known as greedflation). The fed might try to battle inflation all they want but greedflation is going to hold that back.  How Corporate Greed Makes Inflation Worse |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 7:00:08 PM EDT
[#29]
Doesn't seem that wild to me. EVERYTHING costs more. Inflation is through the roof.
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Posted: 8/4/2023 7:02:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol why is there so much corporate cock sucking here? GD is a bunch of old school boomers who think that conservatism = corporatism. It’s not. It never was. But they were sold that false claim by political mouthpieces in the media over the last 30 years. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 7:02:45 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doesn't seem that wild to me. EVERYTHING costs more. Inflation is through the roof. Except for the fact that it's the government forcing the employer to do something they don't want to. Are you into that kind of thing? |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 7:04:57 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GD is a bunch of old school boomers who think that conservatism = corporatism. It’s not. It never was. But they were sold that false claim by political mouthpieces in the media over the last 30 years. If wanting the government to piss off and stay out the affairs of private companies makes a person a corporatist, then so be it. Two things can be, and are, true: 1) Unions are commie scum. Petitioning the government to come in and force your employer to give you something you didn't earn is as commie as it gets. 2) The big 3 automakers are terrible companies. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 7:05:45 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Chick-fil-a workers are probably more skilled. They're certainly a motivated bunch. I'm quite certain that anyone that's managed a CFL, an In n Out, or a Quick Trip convienence store for at least a year could manage the massive corporation I work for better than the batch of C-Suite folks running it now. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 7:07:38 PM EDT
[#34]
2022 profit sharing bonus was $12,750 for 42,300 hourly employees.
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Posted: 8/4/2023 7:12:27 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The companies should send a counter-offer of a 40% decrease in wages. They most certainly are free to do so
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Posted: 8/4/2023 7:17:06 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GD is a bunch of old school boomers who think that conservatism = corporatism. It’s not. It never was. But they were sold that false claim by political mouthpieces in the media over the last 30 years. The traditional left feels that fascism will be foisted on America by corporations... The traditional right feels that fascism will be foisted on America by big government... The simple answer to both questions is "yes" and they're doing it as one. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 7:21:22 PM EDT
[#37]
A GM or Dodge truck made in Mexico costs the same as my F150 made in Kansas City Missouri. So it doesn't seem like the manufactures are passing on that labor savings to the consumer or it just isn't a big driver in cost.
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Posted: 8/4/2023 7:22:26 PM EDT
[#38]
Top pay is $32.I guess if you are unskilled then this is good.
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Posted: 8/4/2023 7:54:49 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A GM or Dodge truck made in Mexico costs the same as my F150 made in Kansas City Missouri. So it doesn't seem like the manufactures are passing on that labor savings to the consumer or it just isn't a big driver in cost. I believe labor is relatively inexpensive compared to the total cost of a vehicle, but it is easier for manufacturers to try to cut labor costs than it is to cut the price of steel etc, so the workers get the bad press. Fuzzy math- If it takes an average of 20 hours for the big 3 to build a vehicle in the US, (probably less) and including benefits it costs GM 58 dollars per hour for labor (pulled randomly from the internet) then they have $1,160 in each vehicle for labor. How much are new vehicles costing these days? If I made an error please correct it. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 7:59:05 PM EDT
[#40]
$200k to turn a screwdriver.
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Posted: 8/4/2023 7:59:05 PM EDT
[#41]
Good, they should make a good wage...the products are cheaply made and have huge margins..they can pass someof that to the workers.
Maybe cut some of the other bullshit jobs in corporate |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 8:00:07 PM EDT
[#42]
The 10 million illegals let in will work for $10 an hour.
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Posted: 8/4/2023 8:01:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I believe labor is relatively inexpensive compared to the total cost of a vehicle, but it is easier for manufacturers to try to cut labor costs than it is to cut the price of steel etc, so the workers get the bad press. Fuzzy math- If it takes an average of 20 hours for the big 3 to build a vehicle in the US, (probably less) and including benefits it costs GM 58 dollars per hour for labor (pulled randomly from the internet) then they have $1,160 in each vehicle for labor. How much are new vehicles costing these days? If I made an error please correct it. Ford netted themselves $25 Billion for 2022, and sold 4.2 Million vehicles. That's about $6,000 profit per vehicle sold. If the average price of their vehicles is $50,000, those aren't exactly huge margins... |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 8:01:22 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: $200k to turn a screwdriver. let's do some maths Currently, unionized factory workers at the Detroit car companies start at about $18 an hour. The top wage, achieved over a period of years, is about $32 an hour. take the top $32 * .40 = 12.8 32+12.80 = $44.80 $44.80 * 40 = $1792 * 52 = $93,184 That seems fair for top pay assembly line workers. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 8:02:26 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol why is there so much corporate cock sucking here? Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol why is there so much corporate cock sucking here? I would imagine a few here are actual owners of corporations or llc's and sign people's paychecks. They did not apply for their jobs, they created their job. That's something most union members will never do nor understand. Quoted: They're certainly a motivated bunch. I'm quite certain that anyone that's managed a CFL, an In n Out, or a Quick Trip convenience store for at least a year could manage the massive corporation I work for better than the batch of C-Suite folks running it now. Interesting comment, we hired a CFL manager into a management position to manage ~15 people full time about 7 months ago and the guy is excelling at the role. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 8:02:50 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good, they should make a good wage...the products are cheaply made and have huge margins..they can pass someof that to the workers. Maybe cut some of the other bullshit jobs in corporate They really don't have huge margins.... Sure, if you only consider the cost to build the car they might seem like good margins, but then there are these things called marketing, compliance costs, bullshit lawsuits, etc. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 8:04:30 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doesnt seem unreasonable Union gets most of that back in dues anyway Last time I checked, UAW dues were two hours pay per month. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 8:04:56 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: let's do some maths Currently, unionized factory workers at the Detroit car companies start at about $18 an hour. The top wage, achieved over a period of years, is about $32 an hour. take the top $32 * .40 = 12.8 32+12.80 = $44.80 $44.80 * 40 = $1792 * 52 = $93,184 That seems fair for top pay assembly line workers. And yet, nobody is chopping at the bit to offer them that much, or else they would take it. So maybe it's not quite so "fair" after all? If $93,000 per year was truly the fair market value of their labor, then why hasn't somebody poached these people, already? Why do they need the government to come in and force the employer to pay them more? |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 8:06:00 PM EDT
[#49]
And we thought those market adjustments were fun
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Posted: 8/4/2023 8:10:28 PM EDT
[#50]
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