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Posted: 10/5/2018 7:39:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Shit... my cousin works for UP on those trains in that area, IIRC. I can't recall if he makes it that far east...
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Posted: 10/5/2018 8:54:22 PM EDT
[#2]
The section of track where the derailment happened is considered mountain grade territory. Which basically means, the heavier your train is the slower speed it is restricted to. The runaway should have only been doing about 20-25 mph.
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Posted: 10/5/2018 9:33:08 PM EDT
[#3]
Just because its PTC territory doesn't mean it was turned on. They have all kinds of PTC issues every day and if it takes longer that 15 minutes to fix the issue, dispatcher tells us to run without it.
Think of how heavy 13,000 tons is and being on a 2% grade. I know it doesn't sound like much but its freaking scary how fast the train will pick up speed. There's more to this story, I don't know how they lost their air. Usually we start out in dynamic brakes and then set a minimum air brake application. Usually using the two together is enough to get the train safely down a grade like that. As was said, there should have been enough air for an emergency application of the brakes. U.P will never discuss what happened unless it's with the FRA and to warn other employees about the mistakes made. Haven't heard anything yet but I'm sure they'll give us some info in the next few days. Hope the families are doing ok, these things aren't good for anyone. |
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Posted: 10/5/2018 9:35:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Not gonna lie, my first thought when I read the thread title :
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Posted: 10/5/2018 11:48:56 PM EDT
[#5]
What kind of power was this train packing?
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Posted: 10/6/2018 12:15:25 AM EDT
[#6]
Question: Is this company union?
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Posted: 10/6/2018 1:12:20 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Question: Is this company union? |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 1:16:13 AM EDT
[#8]
Holy cow.
I lived about a mile away from there a few years ago. |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 2:25:54 AM EDT
[#9]
Possibly relevant: at Wall Street's urging, UP was adopting CSX's (disastrous) "precision scheduled railroading".
http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/272052.aspx From the comments: "Based on the webcast this morning, I wouldn't hold my breath. Everything boiled down to longer trains with less HP per ton, less locomotives, less T&E personnel, less managers, and more road trains stopping to block swap." So if they were running this train with fewer locomotives than before, might be the root cause of the wreck: too much train, not enough engines. |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 5:47:46 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What kind of power was this train packing? |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 6:05:58 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Three locomotives. All on the head end. ES44AC, AC4400 and an SD70M Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What kind of power was this train packing? Those are all fairly new(er) locomotives that have crew survivablity in crashes but at 51 mph I guess there's only so much safety that can take place with that much weight behind you. Sorry for your loss my friend. |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 6:08:02 AM EDT
[#12]
Pissed away the air
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Posted: 10/6/2018 6:17:51 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Possibly relevant: at Wall Street's urging, UP was adopting CSX's (disastrous) "precision scheduled railroading". http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/272052.aspx From the comments: "Based on the webcast this morning, I wouldn't hold my breath. Everything boiled down to longer trains with less HP per ton, less locomotives, less T&E personnel, less managers, and more road trains stopping to block swap." So if they were running this train with fewer locomotives than before, might be the root cause of the wreck: too much train, not enough engines. I hope the deceased crew members’ families of the UP train can find peace and comfort soon. Railroads are putting profits ahead of safety nationwide right now trying to keep up with CSX. |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 6:42:42 AM EDT
[#14]
Another update on the runaway. The train was the MGRCY 04. Manifest train from Green River WY to Cheyenne WY built on 10/4/18. With three locomotives UP 5412, UP 5842 and UP 5003 hauling 76 loads 10 empties 9935 tons 5627 feet. The train picked up an additional 19 loads in Laramie making it 95 loads 10 empties 12417 tons 6581 feet. It rear ended the MPCNP 03. Manifest train from Pocatello ID to North Platte NE built on 10/3/18.
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Posted: 10/6/2018 6:45:44 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pissed away the air |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 6:49:07 AM EDT
[#16]
Sad. Sorry OP.
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Posted: 10/6/2018 7:45:02 AM EDT
[#17]
Prayers for those involved and for the deceased.
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Posted: 10/6/2018 7:45:53 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There’s video of a UP Passenger train going through Deshler, OH (CSX) touring the lines. Cindy Sandborne Express! I hope the deceased crew members’ families of the UP train can find peace and comfort soon. Railroads are putting profits ahead of safety nationwide right now trying to keep up with CSX. |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 8:26:51 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: it's hard to imagine guys doing this, but it still happens. it's called "dump and jump" for a reason, not dump and pray it slows down eventually. i was in st. paul yard the night the bnsf dropped train 144 into the yard, as a run-away. a pinched air hose prevented an emergency application, due to a non functioning 2-way on the rear of the train. we were sure the kid pissed the air away, but he hadn't. it's a hell of a sight, watching a train come to a sudden, violent stop from 54 mph. thoughts and prayers to our lost brothers, and their families and coworkers. |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 9:05:43 AM EDT
[#20]
an lmx ge b40-8 actually went airborne, and landed ahead of the lead unit, remaining upright in the process. imagine a 30 second long continuous coupling sound (with the volume set to 11), followed by dead silence. then the yelling starts. my biggest fear on the job, is the other guy not getting stopped where/where he's supposed to, and taking me out along with the rest of us.
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Posted: 10/6/2018 9:07:24 AM EDT
[#21]
Sorry for your loss. My dad retired from a different railroad
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Posted: 10/6/2018 9:31:35 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There’s video of a UP Passenger train going through Deshler, OH (CSX) touring the lines. Cindy Sandborne Express! I hope the deceased crew members’ families of the UP train can find peace and comfort soon. Railroads are putting profits ahead of safety nationwide right now trying to keep up with CSX. |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 9:59:38 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's Wall Street chasing the lowest possible operating ratio at the expense of everything else. CEO's adopt "precision BS railroading" or are forced out by "activist investors / hedge funds" who install Hunter Harrison clones. The railroads get gutted, customers get driven off and safety goes out the window, but the stock price goes up. At that point the "activist investors" cut and run, leaving the carcass to rot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There’s video of a UP Passenger train going through Deshler, OH (CSX) touring the lines. Cindy Sandborne Express! I hope the deceased crew members’ families of the UP train can find peace and comfort soon. Railroads are putting profits ahead of safety nationwide right now trying to keep up with CSX. |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 10:39:39 AM EDT
[#24]
Hell on Wheels. Blame Cullen Bohanan.
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Posted: 10/6/2018 10:42:49 AM EDT
[#25]
It'd be interesting to hear the radio comms of this incident.
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Posted: 10/6/2018 11:04:15 AM EDT
[#26]
No, I think it would be messed up hearing a crew panicking and knowing that they're about to die.
Plus I wouldn't put it past the railroad to knowingly run them into the back of that other train to stop them. Wouldn't be the first time that its happened. |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 12:30:29 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, I think it would be messed up hearing a crew panicking and knowing that they're about to die. Plus I wouldn't put it past the railroad to knowingly run them into the back of that other train to stop them. Wouldn't be the first time that its happened. I don't suspect that is the case here I'm just curious what your comment is about. |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 12:35:17 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, I think it would be messed up hearing a crew panicking and knowing that they're about to die. Plus I wouldn't put it past the railroad to knowingly run them into the back of that other train to stop them. Wouldn't be the first time that its happened. |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 12:45:05 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Another update on the runaway. The train was the MGRCY 04. Manifest train from Green River WY to Cheyenne WY built on 10/4/18. With three locomotives UP 5412, UP 5842 and UP 5003 hauling 76 loads 10 empties 9935 tons 5627 feet. The train picked up an additional 19 loads in Laramie making it 95 loads 10 empties 12417 tons 6581 feet. It rear ended the MPCNP 03. Manifest train from Pocatello ID to North Platte NE built on 10/3/18. Forgive me, I'm just a real casual railfan. |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 12:45:12 PM EDT
[#30]
They would crash it into the back of another train to keep it from being a bigger mess down the line. That train is a manifest train and carries all types of freight including some very hazardous materials.
Better to wreck it in a place that doesn't have that many people, houses, businesses... yeah, it will keep any further costs down from the derailment. A couple of guys I work with were coming down the Cajon Pass on the BNSF tracks. Something similar happened to them, one of our managers told the BNSF dispatcher to run them into the back of the train stopped a few miles ahead of them. The dispatcher told the manager to F.O. as he wasn't going to have that on his head! The dispatcher routed them through everything to the bottom of the hill and they got the train stopped. So yeah, you didn't hear about it because they lived and there was no derailment. These are just a couple incidents, more have happened, the RR's are masters of keeping most of them quiet. |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 12:50:19 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's Wall Street chasing the lowest possible operating ratio at the expense of everything else. CEO's adopt "precision BS railroading" or are forced out by "activist investors / hedge funds" who install Hunter Harrison clones. The railroads get gutted, customers get driven off and safety goes out the window, but the stock price goes up. At that point the "activist investors" cut and run, leaving the carcass to rot. Due to this, I think the railroad industry is going to get even more government jammed up its collective backside in the form of additional regulations. |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 3:28:05 PM EDT
[#32]
RR's are arrogant beasts...
There is a natural spring encroaching on the mainline near the Salton Sea, UP evidently decided a giant steel plate would divert the water from the tracks....they got a giant sinkhole the other day instead.... RR's are so used to thumbing their nose at everyone that they tried it with Mother Nature......but in the end she has the ultimate eminent domain trump card... Stopped all traffic for about 12-16 hours until the could get a shoefly in place.... but fuck it, with the held away it was about a $1300 round trip |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 3:41:14 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They would crash it into the back of another train to keep it from being a bigger mess down the line. That train is a manifest train and carries all types of freight including some very hazardous materials. Better to wreck it in a place that doesn't have that many people, houses, businesses... yeah, it will keep any further costs down from the derailment. A couple of guys I work with were coming down the Cajon Pass on the BNSF tracks. Something similar happened to them, one of our managers told the BNSF dispatcher to run them into the back of the train stopped a few miles ahead of them. The dispatcher told the manager to F.O. as he wasn't going to have that on his head! The dispatcher routed them through everything to the bottom of the hill and they got the train stopped. So yeah, you didn't hear about it because they lived and there was no derailment. These are just a couple incidents, more have happened, the RR's are masters of keeping most of them quiet. |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 3:41:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Traffic is up, everything is under powered save for UPS trains, UP is cutting Carmen, the remaining ones are being pressured to rush required Air Break tests etc...
shenanigans.... |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 7:16:53 PM EDT
[#35]
Juan,
I heard about the natural spring there at Wister broke loose and almost swallowed the mainline! They've been working on that for months, guess their plan didn't work! Now they'll have to speed up building the bridge over it, not that U.P. is paying for it! They got it declared an emergency so that tax payers money would pay for all of it. |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 7:30:55 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Juan, I heard about the natural spring there at Wister broke loose and almost swallowed the mainline! They've been working on that for months, guess their plan didn't work! Now they'll have to speed up building the bridge over it, not that U.P. is paying for it! They got it declared an emergency so that tax payers money would pay for all of it. 
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Posted: 10/6/2018 7:32:31 PM EDT
[#37]
Cheyenne up to no good again?
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Posted: 10/6/2018 8:07:40 PM EDT
[#38]
That's just way to close!
Never thought that those steel beams were going to do much. That shoofly isn't in much better of a spot, guess that's all they have for now. 
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Posted: 10/6/2018 8:13:41 PM EDT
[#39]
I'm sure they have top people working on it.....top people
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Posted: 10/6/2018 8:16:35 PM EDT
[#40]
Whenever I have an enroute problem and require over the radio mechanical assistance from Omaha and they're reading their trouble shoooting script.....I can only envision it is just like this....not...
top men...  Fit This Into the Hole for This using Nothing but that... |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 8:39:34 PM EDT
[#41]
I have a family member that drove that run for years for UP. He retired last year. I'm glad I don't have to worry and wonder any more.
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Posted: 10/6/2018 11:32:16 PM EDT
[#42]
When I went by this morning, they had one of the engines upright. Looked pretty mangled. And got more info on what happened to the crew from a friend with UP, sucky situation to be in, with no good options or outcome.
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Posted: 10/7/2018 12:14:46 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A little over 1 hp/t. Is that normal? Sounds really underpowered for a train out west. Forgive me, I'm just a real casual railfan. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Another update on the runaway. The train was the MGRCY 04. Manifest train from Green River WY to Cheyenne WY built on 10/4/18. With three locomotives UP 5412, UP 5842 and UP 5003 hauling 76 loads 10 empties 9935 tons 5627 feet. The train picked up an additional 19 loads in Laramie making it 95 loads 10 empties 12417 tons 6581 feet. It rear ended the MPCNP 03. Manifest train from Pocatello ID to North Platte NE built on 10/3/18. Forgive me, I'm just a real casual railfan. I’m just a lowly conductor so maybe an engineer can step in on this part. Plus our steepest grade is only like 1.6%. So no experience with anything that steep myself. |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 12:16:32 AM EDT
[#44]
 RIP Engineer Jason Martinez and Conductor Benjamin Brozovich
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Posted: 10/7/2018 12:24:15 AM EDT
[#45]
N/M
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Posted: 10/7/2018 1:03:37 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1967/30209988097_728c64c84a_b.jpg RIP Engineer Jason Martinez and Conductor Benjamin Brozovich
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Posted: 10/10/2018 3:45:32 AM EDT
[#47]
Another update: I heard from other crew members from Cheyenne that the engineer did not jump but was running back to one of the trailing units when the wreck occurred. They found his body under the second engine
The train started having braking issues after it picked up the 19 loads in Laramie but a manager instructed the crew to take the train anyway . The train was restricted to 25 mph going down the 2% grade. It hit 33 mph when they placed it into emergency and the train was going between 50 and 60 when the collision occured
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Posted: 10/10/2018 5:59:16 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Another update: I heard from other crew members from Cheyenne that the engineer did not jump but was running back to one of the trailing units when the wreck occurred. They found his body under the second engine The train started having braking issues after it picked up the 19 loads in Laramie but a manager instructed the crew to take the train anyway. The train was restricted to 25 mph going down the 2% grade. It hit 33 mph when they placed it into emergency and the train was going between 50 and 60 when the collision occured
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Posted: 10/10/2018 7:13:34 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hunters PR BS wrecked a train going down the hill from Sand Patch in Hyndman a year or two ago. Plus other misadventures. He didn't kick off soon enough. Think they reinstated helpers on the rear. NS knows better and keeps helpers on the rear of most trains going up and down the mountain. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's all good until it ain't. EHH's "precision railroading" bit with CSX is doing the same, but the Great Lakes and Indianapolis subs (along with much of their other trackage) are flat enough that braking power isn't that big of an issue. Probably doesn't fly so well in the Intermountain West. |
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Posted: 10/10/2018 10:37:56 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Another update: I heard from other crew members from Cheyenne that the engineer did not jump but was running back to one of the trailing units when the wreck occurred. They found his body under the second engine The train started having braking issues after it picked up the 19 loads in Laramie but a manager instructed the crew to take the train anyway. The train was restricted to 25 mph going down the 2% grade. It hit 33 mph when they placed it into emergency and the train was going between 50 and 60 when the collision occuredStupid corporate metrics always trump safety with these people. |
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