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WI, USA
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Posted: 12/22/2023 4:27:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NAM]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: Because rifles over .50 cal which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes is exempt from the definition of a DD. ATF couldn't do fuck all about it as the burden is on ATF in such a case to show evidence you intended to use it for other than sporting purposes.  No offense intended, but are we talking about the same ATF? |
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Posted: 12/23/2023 2:53:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Ben]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NAM: No offense intended, but are we talking about the same ATF? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NAM: Originally Posted By Ben: Because rifles over .50 cal which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes is exempt from the definition of a DD. ATF couldn't do fuck all about it as the burden is on ATF in such a case to show evidence you intended to use it for other than sporting purposes. No offense intended, but are we talking about the same ATF? You mean the one that I've beat into a corner over this stuff repeatedly? The ATF who primarily relies on intimidation and fear to get your compliance with their wishes, especially if you're doing something expressly legal which they don't like? There are very, very, very few cases of someone doing something expressly and unambiguously legal wherein the ATF charged, much less managed to convict, them. Almost invariably when the ATF realizes they fucked up, they quietly drop charges if the defendant makes it clear they aren't taking a plea deal and aren't just giving up their property. You just don't see that stuff because it is intentionally left out of the news. Consider that. We have 360,000,000 people in this country. Now think of every case of the ATF unlawfully going after someone and winning. You're literally just as likely to win second place in the Powerball lotto. |
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Posted: 12/23/2023 7:26:47 PM EDT
[#3]
I guess the auto key card guys are just lucky.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/23/2023 7:36:55 PM EDT
[#4]
FPNI and SPNI
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Posted: 12/24/2023 2:25:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Ben]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MHIDPA: I guess the auto key card guys are just lucky. Yeah. How many people out there have actual MGs that aren't registered? Those dudes are the exception, not the norm. On top of that, he made a video and posted it on YouTube directly stating that his product was for customers to convert their ARs into MGs, removing any question as to whether his device was solely a free speech/political statement. In the case of a statute where "the owners intent" is what determines legality, that is very different than building something explicitly legal, and making videos harping on "don't use this for anything other than as designed, or you're committing a federal felony!" |
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Posted: 12/24/2023 12:15:03 PM EDT
[#6]
I love you.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 12/24/2023 1:38:44 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: It's too bad they're so expensive, I would love to arrange cannons around my house. AHOY BURGLAR, PREPARE FOR A WHIFF OF THE GRAPE! *blasts door completely off hinges *grapeshot goes into my neighbors house across the street *entire house filled with smoke  Be sure to yell out “Tally-Ho lads!” before touching off the first volley. |
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Posted: 1/4/2024 7:12:31 PM EDT
[#8]
 AZAO's RPG Demo Day |
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Posted: 1/4/2024 7:14:25 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Go on. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 1/4/2024 7:17:42 PM EDT
[#10]
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OH, USA
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Posted: 1/5/2024 3:13:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Millennial]
[#11]
So the HE-Trainer (1/4oz binary fuzed chalk) rounds are $180…
How much $ is the 1.5LB HE-Binary rounds? What is the binary… flash powder or ammonal (tannerite-ish) or ??? How much are the HEAT 1.5LB RDX rounds? Although the licensing and storage requirements are a challenge for most… probably best to stick to the HE-Binary (to assemble just before use at the range). |
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Posted: 1/5/2024 3:57:01 PM EDT
[#12]
If the AZAO launcher is the one in the OP, then it is still listed as a DD, just a Form 1 vs Form 4. Am I missing something?
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Posted: 1/5/2024 4:43:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ben]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MHIDPA: If the AZAO launcher is the one in the OP, then it is still listed as a DD, just a Form 1 vs Form 4. Am I missing something? Yes. You are. Before you cut the notch that allows it to utilize PG2 rounds, it is classed the same as a 37mm flare launcher. You can still shoot dummy rockets out of it, or flare rounds, or smoke...arguably even rounds with less than a 1/4oz bursting charge. Think giant bird bangers. |
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Posted: 1/5/2024 5:34:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: Yes. You are. Before you cut the notch that allows it to utilize PG2 rounds, it is classed the same as a 37mm flare launcher. You can still shoot dummy rockets out of it, or flare rounds, or smoke...arguably even rounds with less than a 1/4oz bursting charge. Think giant bird bangers. Link to launcher. So this is incapable of firing anything until the Round Indexing Notch (F1 $200) is paid and removed? |
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Posted: 1/5/2024 6:19:26 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: Yes. You are. Before you cut the notch that allows it to utilize PG2 rounds, it is classed the same as a 37mm flare launcher. You can still shoot dummy rockets out of it, or flare rounds, or smoke...arguably even rounds with less than a 1/4oz bursting charge. Think giant bird bangers. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: Originally Posted By MHIDPA: If the AZAO launcher is the one in the OP, then it is still listed as a DD, just a Form 1 vs Form 4. Am I missing something? Yes. You are. Before you cut the notch that allows it to utilize PG2 rounds, it is classed the same as a 37mm flare launcher. You can still shoot dummy rockets out of it, or flare rounds, or smoke...arguably even rounds with less than a 1/4oz bursting charge. Think giant bird bangers. Ah, cool. |
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ID, USA
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Posted: 1/5/2024 6:24:34 PM EDT
[#16]
I hope PSA is watching this thread...us poors need RPG's too ya know.
 #justasgood |
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Posted: 1/5/2024 9:42:22 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: Yes. You are. Before you cut the notch that allows it to utilize PG2 rounds, it is classed the same as a 37mm flare launcher. You can still shoot dummy rockets out of it, or flare rounds, or smoke...arguably even rounds with less than a 1/4oz bursting charge. Think giant bird bangers. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: Originally Posted By MHIDPA: If the AZAO launcher is the one in the OP, then it is still listed as a DD, just a Form 1 vs Form 4. Am I missing something? Yes. You are. Before you cut the notch that allows it to utilize PG2 rounds, it is classed the same as a 37mm flare launcher. You can still shoot dummy rockets out of it, or flare rounds, or smoke...arguably even rounds with less than a 1/4oz bursting charge. Think giant bird bangers. I guess I don't fully understand how an RPG-2 functions. How does the notch prevent PG2 ammo but not "non DD" ammo. Also are those rounds available? |
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Posted: 1/5/2024 9:49:23 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MHIDPA: I guess I don't fully understand how an RPG-2 functions. How does the notch prevent PG2 ammo but not "non DD" ammo. Also are those rounds available? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MHIDPA: Originally Posted By Ben: Originally Posted By MHIDPA: If the AZAO launcher is the one in the OP, then it is still listed as a DD, just a Form 1 vs Form 4. Am I missing something? Yes. You are. Before you cut the notch that allows it to utilize PG2 rounds, it is classed the same as a 37mm flare launcher. You can still shoot dummy rockets out of it, or flare rounds, or smoke...arguably even rounds with less than a 1/4oz bursting charge. Think giant bird bangers. I guess I don't fully understand how an RPG-2 functions. How does the notch prevent PG2 ammo but not "non DD" ammo. Also are those rounds available? I believe it's because without the notch, you can't readily use RPG ammo. The firing pin and primer won't line up. So when you make your own "Non RPG" ammo, you'll be making a completely different munition. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 1/5/2024 10:05:17 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Sure. Might not even be a rifle, would be an "other" - over 26", rifled bbl, vertical forgrip. Meh, shoulder fired, just the top of the shoulder. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 1/5/2024 10:09:43 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: Then you'd be using it as a weapon, and it would become a regulated weapon. Either an SBR (because it has a rifled barrel under 16" and is shoulder fired) or a DD (if it lacks a stock). The funny thing, is if you had one with a 16" barrel and a stock, it actually wouldn't need to be registered at all...even if you used it for hunting. Because rifles over .50 cal which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes is exempt from the definition of a DD. ATF couldn't do fuck all about it as the burden is on ATF in such a case to show evidence you intended to use it for other than sporting purposes. It is the exact same as having bottles of gasoline in your garage and rags stacked next to them. Perfectly legal unless it can be objectively shown you intend to use these things unlawfully. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: Originally Posted By xviperx420: Originally Posted By Ben: Originally Posted By AbsolutLemur: Can I get that non-DD thing in the form of a non-DD M203?  https://media.tenor.com/R-NnRPNQQcYAAAAC/mark-me-down-scared-and-horny.gif Absolutely. A 37mm launcher with avalanche control rounds. The issue might be convincing anyone your M203 has the range to be effectively as such a device. Non semi auto straight wall cartridge firearms are legal to hunt deer with where I'm at. I kinda wanna bloop a deer in the face with one. Then you'd be using it as a weapon, and it would become a regulated weapon. Either an SBR (because it has a rifled barrel under 16" and is shoulder fired) or a DD (if it lacks a stock). The funny thing, is if you had one with a 16" barrel and a stock, it actually wouldn't need to be registered at all...even if you used it for hunting. Because rifles over .50 cal which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes is exempt from the definition of a DD. ATF couldn't do fuck all about it as the burden is on ATF in such a case to show evidence you intended to use it for other than sporting purposes. It is the exact same as having bottles of gasoline in your garage and rags stacked next to them. Perfectly legal unless it can be objectively shown you intend to use these things unlawfully. Long barrel M79s are gtg if the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes? Any distinction between 40 mm vs 37 mm? |
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Posted: 1/6/2024 12:54:43 AM EDT
[#21]
Do we have an ATF determination letter on this saying that or where are we getting this information from? Maybe I’m crazy but I’m going to be hesitant to build an RPG and just not cut the notch and say I’m good to go without some sort of guidance to back it up.
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Posted: 1/6/2024 3:55:04 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors: Link to launcher. So this is incapable of firing anything until the Round Indexing Notch (F1 $200) is paid and removed? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors: Originally Posted By Ben: Yes. You are. Before you cut the notch that allows it to utilize PG2 rounds, it is classed the same as a 37mm flare launcher. You can still shoot dummy rockets out of it, or flare rounds, or smoke...arguably even rounds with less than a 1/4oz bursting charge. Think giant bird bangers. Link to launcher. So this is incapable of firing anything until the Round Indexing Notch (F1 $200) is paid and removed? Oh no. It can absolutely fire things. It just can't fire any actual PG rounds. Since it can't fire any existing mil spec rounds (or any other commercially available rounds that are meant to produce lethal effects) it is not a DD. There is a change coming though...one that was one made on my suggestion after meeting the guy who makes these. I got a bunch of photos today but was asked not to post them yet. Soon. |
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Posted: 1/6/2024 3:56:12 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jchewie1: Long barrel M79s are gtg if the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes? Any distinction between 40 mm vs 37 mm? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jchewie1: Originally Posted By Ben: Originally Posted By xviperx420: Originally Posted By Ben: Originally Posted By AbsolutLemur: Can I get that non-DD thing in the form of a non-DD M203? https://media.tenor.com/R-NnRPNQQcYAAAAC/mark-me-down-scared-and-horny.gif Absolutely. A 37mm launcher with avalanche control rounds. The issue might be convincing anyone your M203 has the range to be effectively as such a device. Non semi auto straight wall cartridge firearms are legal to hunt deer with where I'm at. I kinda wanna bloop a deer in the face with one. Then you'd be using it as a weapon, and it would become a regulated weapon. Either an SBR (because it has a rifled barrel under 16" and is shoulder fired) or a DD (if it lacks a stock). The funny thing, is if you had one with a 16" barrel and a stock, it actually wouldn't need to be registered at all...even if you used it for hunting. Because rifles over .50 cal which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes is exempt from the definition of a DD. ATF couldn't do fuck all about it as the burden is on ATF in such a case to show evidence you intended to use it for other than sporting purposes. It is the exact same as having bottles of gasoline in your garage and rags stacked next to them. Perfectly legal unless it can be objectively shown you intend to use these things unlawfully. Long barrel M79s are gtg if the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes? Any distinction between 40 mm vs 37 mm? No difference. |
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Posted: 1/6/2024 3:57:37 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By agb104983: Do we have an ATF determination letter on this saying that or where are we getting this information from? Maybe I’m crazy but I’m going to be hesitant to build an RPG and just not cut the notch and say I’m good to go without some sort of guidance to back it up. Yes, I have seen the ATF determination. He sends you a copy with the launcher. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 1/7/2024 10:10:50 AM EDT
[#25]
That will get your dog shot.
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Posted: 1/7/2024 10:13:39 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Creole_Cat: That will get your dog shot. Oh man, you're right. I have no experience with this and don't know what I'm talking about. 
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Posted: 1/7/2024 10:33:56 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: Oh man, you're right. I have no experience with this and don't know what I'm talking about. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: Originally Posted By Creole_Cat: That will get your dog shot. Oh man, you're right. I have no experience with this and don't know what I'm talking about. Most of us don't have millions of $$$ insulating us from legal consequences. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 10:39:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Ben]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Keymaster4225: Most of us don't have millions of $$$ insulating us from legal consequences. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Keymaster4225: Originally Posted By Ben: Originally Posted By Creole_Cat: That will get your dog shot. Oh man, you're right. I have no experience with this and don't know what I'm talking about. Most of us don't have millions of $$$ insulating us from legal consequences. Technically, I don't either. I gave everything that I inherited to charity. Literally. All of it. I didn't even pay for my school, I went to college on a track scholarship and the GI bill. I have earned all the money I spend. I don't spend money I didn't earn on myself. The thing that most shields me from legal consequences is the fact that I am very meticulous about dotting every "i" and crossing every "t". Analysis and prep work on the front end of anything you are afraid might become controversial is usually the best medicine. To win without having to fight should always be the ultimate goal. On top of that, I literally just posted that the manufacturer ships a copy of the ATF determination letter with each launcher. If people would stop being afraid all the time, much of the ATFs criminal level of regulation through intimidation would lose its power. They do in fact, despite popular belief, have limited resources- both from a time and money perspective. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 4:51:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: Technically, I don't either. I gave everything that I inherited to charity. Literally. All of it. I didn't even pay for my school, I went to college on a track scholarship and the GI bill. I have earned all the money I spend. I don't spend money I didn't earn on myself. The thing that most shields me from legal consequences is the fact that I am very meticulous about dotting every "i" and crossing every "t". Analysis and prep work on the front end of anything you are afraid might become controversial is usually the best medicine. To win without having to fight should always be the ultimate goal. On top of that, I literally just posted that the manufacturer ships a copy of the ATF determination letter with each launcher. If people would stop being afraid all the time, much of the ATFs criminal level of regulation through intimidation would lose its power. They do in fact, despite popular belief, have limited resources- both from a time and money perspective. So the product I linked above “is” the one you have been talking about the whole time? Or a slightly different version? I just want to know firm price on a non DD recoilless launcher. Aka recoilless signaling device. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 6:13:34 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors: So the product I linked above “is” the one you have been talking about the whole time? Or a slightly different version? I just want to know firm price on a non DD recoilless launcher. Aka recoilless signaling device. There is a cheaper version that will be put up shortly. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 6:17:54 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors: So the product I linked above “is” the one you have been talking about the whole time? Or a slightly different version? I just want to know firm price on a non DD recoilless launcher. Aka recoilless signaling device. It is that product. They ship it to you without the Indexing notch cut. You fill out a form 1 then Cut the indexing notch for a pg2 rocket. If you don't cut the indexing notch you could still make smoke/flare/recreational shooting into berms with less the 1/4 oz of explosive rockets that line up and fire without the notch. It is essentially the same as a 37mm launcher. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 6:18:56 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: There is a cheaper version that will be put up shortly. 👍 |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 6:39:44 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ShooterPatriot: It is that product. They ship it to you without the Indexing notch cut. You fill out a form 1 then Cut the indexing notch for a pg2 rocket. If you don't cut the indexing notch you could still make smoke/flare/recreational shooting into berms with less the 1/4 oz of explosive rockets that line up and fire without the notch. It is essentially the same as a 37mm launcher. @ben what you are saying is that this company has found a work around also for the 1/4 oz of rules as well? Lyft/launch charge is separate from report charge? |
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Posted: 1/8/2024 1:14:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Ben]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors: @ben what you are saying is that this company has found a work around also for the 1/4 oz of rules as well? Lyft/launch charge is separate from report charge? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors: Originally Posted By ShooterPatriot: It is that product. They ship it to you without the Indexing notch cut. You fill out a form 1 then Cut the indexing notch for a pg2 rocket. If you don't cut the indexing notch you could still make smoke/flare/recreational shooting into berms with less the 1/4 oz of explosive rockets that line up and fire without the notch. It is essentially the same as a 37mm launcher. @ben what you are saying is that this company has found a work around also for the 1/4 oz of rules as well? Lyft/launch charge is separate from report charge? Ok. I'll break this down: For a DD, the 1/4oz rule always applied to the projectile, not the propellant. So you're still limited to 4oz of propellant if you have an explosive rocket. If you have a rocket that is not explosive, incendiary, or poison gas, then there is no limit to the amount of propellant you can use. However, none of the above apply to a device which is not designed to be used as a weapon, or a device which was a weapon which has been redesigned for use as a safety or signaling device or similar. The avalanche control rounds for these not only will not be designed for use as a weapon, but will likely be made from a material which ensures they don't produce dangerous fragmentation. Now, here is where that leaves a person: it is in fact possible to have a device which is exempted from the definition of DD based on its use, become a DD if used as a weapon. Make sense? For example, there is an exception for rifles over .50cal which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes. The moment the rifle uses it for something other than sporting purposes (ie as a weapon) he has demonstrated that his intent is not solely sporting, and thus the rifle becomes a DD. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/8/2024 3:21:57 AM EDT
[#35]
Ben, are the projectiles constructed to have more or less the same same mass and center of gravity?
It would be nice if they were consistent across the board. If not, I need a accurately weighted and balanced inert projectile. Would you mind inquiring of your acquaintances? |
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Posted: 1/8/2024 4:56:51 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By only1asterisk: Ben, are the projectiles constructed to have more or less the same same mass and center of gravity? It would be nice if they were consistent across the board. If not, I need a accurately weighted and balanced inert projectile. Would you mind inquiring of your acquaintances? I just passed your question along. |
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Posted: 1/8/2024 10:01:23 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: Ok. I'll break this down: For a DD, the 1/4oz rule always applied to the projectile, not the propellant. So you're still limited to 4oz of propellant if you have an explosive rocket. If you have a rocket that is not explosive, incendiary, or poison gas, then there is no limit to the amount of propellant you can use. However, none of the above apply to a device which is not designed to be used as a weapon, or a device which was a weapon which has been redesigned for use as a safety or signaling device or similar. The avalanche control rounds for these not only will not be designed for use as a weapon, but will likely be made from a material which ensures they don't produce dangerous fragmentation. Now, here is where that leaves a person: it is in fact possible to have a device which is exempted from the definition of DD based on its use, become a DD if used as a weapon. Make sense? For example, there is an exception for rifles over .50cal which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes. The moment the rifle uses it for something other than sporting purposes (ie as a weapon) he has demonstrated that his intent is not solely sporting, and thus the rifle becomes a DD. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: Originally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors: Originally Posted By ShooterPatriot: It is that product. They ship it to you without the Indexing notch cut. You fill out a form 1 then Cut the indexing notch for a pg2 rocket. If you don't cut the indexing notch you could still make smoke/flare/recreational shooting into berms with less the 1/4 oz of explosive rockets that line up and fire without the notch. It is essentially the same as a 37mm launcher. @ben what you are saying is that this company has found a work around also for the 1/4 oz of rules as well? Lyft/launch charge is separate from report charge? Ok. I'll break this down: For a DD, the 1/4oz rule always applied to the projectile, not the propellant. So you're still limited to 4oz of propellant if you have an explosive rocket. If you have a rocket that is not explosive, incendiary, or poison gas, then there is no limit to the amount of propellant you can use. However, none of the above apply to a device which is not designed to be used as a weapon, or a device which was a weapon which has been redesigned for use as a safety or signaling device or similar. The avalanche control rounds for these not only will not be designed for use as a weapon, but will likely be made from a material which ensures they don't produce dangerous fragmentation. Now, here is where that leaves a person: it is in fact possible to have a device which is exempted from the definition of DD based on its use, become a DD if used as a weapon. Make sense? For example, there is an exception for rifles over .50cal which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes. The moment the rifle uses it for something other than sporting purposes (ie as a weapon) he has demonstrated that his intent is not solely sporting, and thus the rifle becomes a DD. So if somebody has a large bore African hunting double rifle that is over 50 caliber(such as 600NE or 700NE) and because of some fluke situation or whatever, ended up having to use that to shoot someone in self-defense, they would be charged with illegal possession/construction of an unregistered destructive device? |
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Posted: 1/8/2024 10:41:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: FrankW134]
[#38]
Originally Posted By Ben: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/72384/IMG_20231129_115227_705-3044465.jpg Like, you can buy it over the counter. Would you like to know more? Need to move some stuff in the EE, I'll order as soon as I get funds. |
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Posted: 1/8/2024 10:41:24 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By agb104983: So if somebody has a large bore African hunting double rifle that is over 50 caliber(such as 600NE or 700NE) and because of some fluke situation or whatever, ended up having to use that to shoot someone in self-defense, they would be charged with illegal possession/construction of an unregistered destructive device? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By agb104983: Originally Posted By Ben: Originally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors: Originally Posted By ShooterPatriot: It is that product. They ship it to you without the Indexing notch cut. You fill out a form 1 then Cut the indexing notch for a pg2 rocket. If you don't cut the indexing notch you could still make smoke/flare/recreational shooting into berms with less the 1/4 oz of explosive rockets that line up and fire without the notch. It is essentially the same as a 37mm launcher. @ben what you are saying is that this company has found a work around also for the 1/4 oz of rules as well? Lyft/launch charge is separate from report charge? Ok. I'll break this down: For a DD, the 1/4oz rule always applied to the projectile, not the propellant. So you're still limited to 4oz of propellant if you have an explosive rocket. If you have a rocket that is not explosive, incendiary, or poison gas, then there is no limit to the amount of propellant you can use. However, none of the above apply to a device which is not designed to be used as a weapon, or a device which was a weapon which has been redesigned for use as a safety or signaling device or similar. The avalanche control rounds for these not only will not be designed for use as a weapon, but will likely be made from a material which ensures they don't produce dangerous fragmentation. Now, here is where that leaves a person: it is in fact possible to have a device which is exempted from the definition of DD based on its use, become a DD if used as a weapon. Make sense? For example, there is an exception for rifles over .50cal which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes. The moment the rifle uses it for something other than sporting purposes (ie as a weapon) he has demonstrated that his intent is not solely sporting, and thus the rifle becomes a DD. So if somebody has a large bore African hunting double rifle that is over 50 caliber(such as 600NE or 700NE) and because of some fluke situation or whatever, ended up having to use that to shoot someone in self-defense, they would be charged with illegal possession/construction of an unregistered destructive device? In theory, yes- though the basis in the case of a rifle over .50 caliber is the intent of the owner. I think the .gov would have a really hard time proving that case in court if you utilized said rifle incidentally in self defense. On the flip side, if you posted YouTube videos about how "this is my hunting rifle, and man would it wreck some home invaders or people I don't like, which is why I bought this as my hunting rifle even though I never plan to go on an African safari" they'd probably be able to make a case that your intent was never to use it for sporting purposes. |
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Posted: 1/8/2024 11:39:49 AM EDT
[#40]
Is anyone still selling new tubes/barrels for the demilled RPG 2 kits? I see that AZAO is selling a firing pin/vent kit.
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Posted: 1/8/2024 11:56:23 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By only1asterisk: Ben, are the projectiles constructed to have more or less the same same mass and center of gravity? It would be nice if they were consistent across the board. If not, I need a accurately weighted and balanced inert projectile. Would you mind inquiring of your acquaintances? Answer to your question: "Yes, my rounds are balanced for both centers of gravity and pressure. They should fly like huge lawn darts. Now the rounds where customers fill their own are a little tricky." |
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Posted: 1/8/2024 12:08:09 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: In theory, yes- though the basis in the case of a rifle over .50 caliber is the intent of the owner. I think the .gov would have a really hard time proving that case in court if you utilized said rifle incidentally in self defense. On the flip side, if you posted YouTube videos about how "this is my hunting rifle, and man would it wreck some home invaders or people I don't like, which is why I bought this as my hunting rifle even though I never plan to go on an African safari" they'd probably be able to make a case that your intent was never to use it for sporting purposes. I agree with you on the law and what it means. That said, rather than attack the owner's intent, I suspect they'd bank on using the Chevron deference to define "sporting, recreational, and cultural purposes", and it won't include your rifle. Then, they'll show that you're not making efforts to employ your rifle towards their "sporting purposes", or that it's not suitable under their definition as prima facie evidence that you're not intending to use it under their definition of sporting purposes. They've already established this with import law, where they use "generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes" to restrict what we can import. |
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Posted: 1/8/2024 12:56:40 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mechanical: I agree with you on the law and what it means. That said, rather than attack the owner's intent, I suspect they'd bank on using the Chevron deference to define "sporting, recreational, and cultural purposes", and it won't include your rifle. Then, they'll show that you're not making efforts to employ your rifle towards their "sporting purposes", or that it's not suitable under their definition as prima facie evidence that you're not intending to use it under their definition of sporting purposes. They've already established this with import law, where they use "generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes" to restrict what we can import. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mechanical: Originally Posted By Ben: In theory, yes- though the basis in the case of a rifle over .50 caliber is the intent of the owner. I think the .gov would have a really hard time proving that case in court if you utilized said rifle incidentally in self defense. On the flip side, if you posted YouTube videos about how "this is my hunting rifle, and man would it wreck some home invaders or people I don't like, which is why I bought this as my hunting rifle even though I never plan to go on an African safari" they'd probably be able to make a case that your intent was never to use it for sporting purposes. I agree with you on the law and what it means. That said, rather than attack the owner's intent, I suspect they'd bank on using the Chevron deference to define "sporting, recreational, and cultural purposes", and it won't include your rifle. Then, they'll show that you're not making efforts to employ your rifle towards their "sporting purposes", or that it's not suitable under their definition as prima facie evidence that you're not intending to use it under their definition of sporting purposes. They've already established this with import law, where they use "generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes" to restrict what we can import. There is court precedence in regards to sporting purposes. Hunting and target shooting are both sporting purposes. There is also SCOTUS precedence that has been cited in cases after Bruen even which emphasizes that when the wording is similar, but not identical, in different parts of the same statute, you may not read into it meanings that are the same. ATF gets to decide prima facie whether a shotgun is legal based on if they decide it is particularly suitable for sporting purposes (the law specifies shotguns are legal based on the findings of the director), but rifles are based on the owners intent. So...Fuck ATFs feelings. |
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Posted: 1/13/2024 7:04:12 AM EDT
[#44]
So technically my m203 should be exempt. I bought it to use in run and guns.
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Posted: 1/13/2024 7:18:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Ben]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LineOfDeparture: So technically my m203 should be exempt. I bought it to use in run and guns. Then it would still be an SBR if not a DD, unless not a shoulder fired setup, or custom long barrel. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 1/13/2024 8:08:50 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: That was put on hold when I was hospitalized repeatedly the last couple months. Spring that project takes back off. This post is someone else being way more awesome than me. How is that even possible?! |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 1/13/2024 8:44:12 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: The government: let me get this straight, you just want explosives to "blow shit up in peace" Me: yes The government: why should we believe you? How do we know you're not a terrorist? Me: because it's fun. Explosions are fun “Why do you think you deserve to have fun?”-Government |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 1/13/2024 8:47:50 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DFARM: Desire to search these things online intensifies. I really like my dogs though and dislike unannounced guests. Imagine if we were free to learn about these things on our own. I suppose I could always go to the library and see what they have and just not check anything out. Lol Just get a fake Library card, I got one, I’m Dale Gribble. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 1/13/2024 8:49:28 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: I've wanted to add a separate sprinkler system that either sprays gasoline or diesel on command for awhile now. I just can't afford that much ethanol-free. I see you read “Patriot Acts” as well. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 1/13/2024 8:54:50 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FightingHellfish: Well… Maybe. Not sure about Texas, but in many (most?) states you can’t lawfully kill an animal in a way that causes unnecessary suffering. You’d want to make sure your airburst could be expected to drop the hogs right where they stood. That explosion is humane as fuck! |
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