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Posted: 7/31/2022 8:23:44 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryI still want to shoot that thing! |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 8:27:56 PM EDT
[#2]
13 rounds of 3” bear slugs from a Gen 12 ought to do the trick.
https://www.genesisarms.com/product-page/10-5-gen-12-upper-only |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 8:32:46 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Check this guys channel.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-l_LzVu9s0This is a rifle/shotgun video on shooting a bear. He also has one with handguns. That dude is sufficiently hillbilly. I like it. 
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Posted: 7/31/2022 8:48:04 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That dude is sufficiently hillbilly. I like it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Check this guys channel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-l_LzVu9s0This is a rifle/shotgun video on shooting a bear. He also has one with handguns. That dude is sufficiently hillbilly. I like it. I liked it too. I'd think a charging bear would probably have a lot more head movement, but I don't know how he could replicate that. |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 8:49:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Check this guys channel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-l_LzVu9s0This is a rifle/shotgun video on shooting a bear. He also has one with handguns. Ha, that's awesome, thanks. He shoots pretty well. |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 9:26:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An Official Red Ryder carbine action 200 shot range model air rifle It better have a compass in the stock and a thing that tells time, or it’s your funeral. ETA, Should have known I’d be beat. |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 9:52:13 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryIs there any magazine standardization between these MegaMan ARs? |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 10:08:16 PM EDT
[#8]
M1 Rifle loaded with AP.One round in the noggin,lights out.
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Posted: 7/31/2022 10:32:27 PM EDT
[#9]
.45-70 ends the discussion. Just as a reminder, here's a round next to a .40.
 Attached FileLever action even better. |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 10:49:05 PM EDT
[#10]
My grandpa popped a black bear in the head with 30-06 220g. Looked dead but only knocked it out.
I like the 12g slug idea. Or 4570 lever gun. I have a 450 bm but im not sold on the 250g flex tip as a bear round. |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 11:16:34 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My grandpa popped a black bear in the head with 30-06 220g. Looked dead but only knocked it out. I like the 12g slug idea. Or 4570 lever gun. I have a 450 bm but im not sold on the 250g flex tip as a bear round. Underwood has their screwdriver bullets in .450. https://underwoodammo.com/rifle-ammo/?_bc_fsnf=1&Cartridge=.450+Bushmaster Buffalo Bore makes a 360 grain hardcast round. https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=540 |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 11:24:35 PM EDT
[#12]
7.62X54R PSL
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Posted: 7/31/2022 11:31:08 PM EDT
[#13]
Guns I own, we talking defense or hunting?
Hunting 300wm will do it Defense that I own, 458 socom with 600gr hard cast flat nose lead projectiles. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 12:18:57 AM EDT
[#14]
 Wilson Combat makes an ar-10 that fires this 358 Winchester. 180gr bullets – 2600 FPS 200gr bullets – 2400 FPS 225gr bullets – 2200 FPS Buffalo bore is 225gr at 2500fps. I'll bet it kicks like a buffalo. And also .357 bullets if you really want the bullets to blow up, maybe nice for home defense if the gun will run. It's semi-auto so it's just a matter of controlling the recoil. 3 or 4 or 5 200gr bullets at 2400fps should stop any bear. 180gr at 2600fps should be really nice for reaching out to hit smaller game like elk or deer. And 158gr pistol bullets flying at whatever speed to avoid over penetration around the house. This seems ideal. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 2:29:53 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Phil? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I would want bigger than 308 against a big brownie...especially in a spitting distance alder patch..A good friend who spent most of his adult life guiding kodiak brown bear hunts on Kodiak Island has tried a pile of cartridges for a one shot point blank stop a big bear in its tracks..his choice......505 Gibbs... Phil? |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 2:41:25 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Browning BAR in 300 or 338 the 300 is a sweet shooter. More than one has been converted to 458 Win Mag |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 2:44:46 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 12 gauge slugs, gets the job done. Or you could hire this guy.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2fLyZfaaZsFirst video I ever saw on the internet. We had dial up. I think it took 10 minutes to down load. I have it on a floppy I think. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 1:05:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More than one has been converted to 458 Win Mag That would be ideal for bear defense but it would lack range for anything else. Though, the recoil might drastically slow down follow-up shots. 4 mid caliber shots might be better than 2 sledgehammers. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 4:16:39 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That would be ideal for bear defense but it would lack range for anything else. Though, the recoil might drastically slow down follow-up shots. 4 mid caliber shots might be better than 2 sledgehammers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: More than one has been converted to 458 Win Mag That would be ideal for bear defense but it would lack range for anything else. Though, the recoil might drastically slow down follow-up shots. 4 mid caliber shots might be better than 2 sledgehammers. What kind of range you planning to shoot at? |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 4:30:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here is what the ADF&G has to say about cartridge selection. https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=hunting.firearms https://i.imgur.com/UZ9IUOs.png eta: An avid hunter of Admiralty Island brown bear (he lived to be 95) once told me that there is a difference between killing a bear and stopping it. To stop it, you need to break a shoulder because that's where its strength and speed reside. Killing a bear can take time, because sometimes the bear doesn't yet know that you have killed it. Meaning you are more likely to hit it correctly with the light recoiling and fast follow up shots 6.5 Grendel versus a (relatively) uncontrollable 338 Lapua. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 4:47:27 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What kind of range you planning to shoot at? The first goal is to find a semiauto rifle that will work reliably for defense against bear. If that factor is met and there are multiple options, the goal would be a rifle that is flexible, carryable, prefer box magazine. If a bone crusher is the only choice, then the rifle will not work very well for other stuff just like a double rifle, basically. I doubt a suitable bear rifle will be well suited for 400 yard shots on deer. But if one rifle will do both, then cool. Might as well pick the one that will do both. It looks to me that a rifle that can make accurate repeat shots would be a a good priority. I'm not confident a little .223 is going to do much very fast. I think the .358 winchester in a semi auto might be big enough while also being shootable. And lighter bullets would give it some range. I think something like a .458 win mag would be more difficult to shoot fast and also would have limited range. But if nothing short of a .458 win mag will stop a bear, then that's just the way it is. Fish and game say shot placement is a lot more important than caliber. But I don't know. I'm asking just for the sake of conversation. But this conversation is starting to make me think I should buy something even though I don't need it. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 5:01:04 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is there any magazine standardization between these MegaMan ARs? Quote HistoryQuoted: Is there any magazine standardization between these MegaMan ARs? No, the OMEN series has been through a few iterations. We did a single stack version in the same body for .300 Norma Mag for ASR trials. None of them are the same... Closest would probably be OMEN/PETRA, probably close. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 5:29:12 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’d rather be able to put a lot of decent rounds on target quickly if your talking about self defense from bears and not hunting. Give me some decently hot .308 in a 20rd mag from a 16” AR10 with a decent quick acquisition optic. I'm genuinely interested to know -- in what non-hunting scenario would an optic be useful for bear defense? How far off can you shoot a bear and still claim self-defense? I don't live anywhere near bears and so don't have a bear defense weapon -- besides great distance! 
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Posted: 8/1/2022 5:36:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm genuinely interested to know -- in what non-hunting scenario would an optic be useful for bear defense? How far off can you shoot a bear and still claim self-defense? I don't live anywhere near bears and so don't have a bear defense weapon -- besides great distance! If iron sights are useful in the situation then I would think a zero power red dot would be just as good to somebody who is practiced with it. If it is down to point and shoot, then the red dot would be just as useless as iron sights. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 5:42:04 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm genuinely interested to know -- in what non-hunting scenario would an optic be useful for bear defense? How far off can you shoot a bear and still claim self-defense? I don't live anywhere near bears and so don't have a bear defense weapon -- besides great distance! Red dots beat sights |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 5:47:14 PM EDT
[#26]
First thing that comes to mind is that FD338 from tomorrow war. An AR pattern in 338 Lapua Mag. Fits your accuracy, range and power requirements plus the detachable box mag.https://www.fddefense.com/rifles/fd338/
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Posted: 8/1/2022 5:50:25 PM EDT
[#27]
I'm sure that there have been plenty killed with .30WCF. .308 would be sufficient.
Besides, I only need to shoot my partner in the leg.
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Posted: 8/1/2022 5:55:46 PM EDT
[#28]
Just bring a friend. ??
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Posted: 8/1/2022 6:01:25 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryThe concussion and muzzle blast would be like a 50bmg. 
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Posted: 8/1/2022 6:04:01 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryIs that for real? |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 6:12:40 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: First thing that comes to mind is that FD338 from tomorrow war. An AR pattern in 338 Lapua Mag. Fits your accuracy, range and power requirements plus the detachable box mag.https://www.fddefense.com/rifles/fd338/ Look at thr handguard again. Then look at the Omen by Nemo Arms. The rifle in Tomorrow War was the Nemo. Personally; GM6 Lynx. A lot shorter than a Nemo. If it still keeps coming after taking the first hit from .50BMG, I don't know that anything else would really stop it more quickly, but YT vids show that you can fire followup shots fairly quickly. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 6:17:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Ma Duece
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Posted: 8/1/2022 6:45:38 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that for real? Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that for real? Yes. Ask Fluffy about it. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 6:46:43 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: .45-70 ends the discussion. Just as a reminder, here's a round next to a .40. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/215839/20220314_202211_jpg-2472430.JPG Lever action even better. Truth... if you have to stop a charging Kodiak, this is what you need: http://www.garrettcartridges.com/4570540tech.html It will break anything and go through anything. Now, if you're hunting and you have a guide carrying something big, sure, have at it with whatever you guys are talking about. But don't kid yourself, you need big, heavy and a large flat meplat to consistently crack skulls, break shoulders and penetrate from any angle. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 7:08:42 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: eta: An avid hunter of Admiralty Island brown bear (he lived to be 95) once told me that there is a difference between killing a bear and stopping it. To stop it, you need to break a shoulder because that's where its strength and speed reside. Killing a bear can take time, because sometimes the bear doesn't yet know that you have killed it. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 7:24:24 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There was a news story about a guy hiking in Alaska about 8-9 years ago I think that put down a charging bear with a 5.45x39 AK74. 5.56 should be fine if you get enough rounds on target. I think he fired somewhere around 10-12 rounds IIRC. Now I'm not saying its ideal, but it would probably work. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 7:34:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember that story. I have a semi auto Remington 7400 in 30-06. With recoil, I could probably only get 3 aimed shots off in the span of time I could put 12 or so out of an AR. Probably just 2-3 slugs out of the 1301. (Say 3-4 seconds or so to shoulder and fire.) |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 7:41:31 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How true. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: eta: An avid hunter of Admiralty Island brown bear (he lived to be 95) once told me that there is a difference between killing a bear and stopping it. To stop it, you need to break a shoulder because that's where its strength and speed reside. Killing a bear can take time, because sometimes the bear doesn't yet know that you have killed it. Same as hunting dangerous game in africa. It seems like there is a lot of overlap. To reliably stop a bear will require a structural breakage like a shoulder, or central nervous system hit, or massive blood loss which usually requires some time. I don't know where the cut off is in calibers between "good enough to break bones" vs "probably won't break bones". But I'm kind of thinking somewhere around .35 caliber and 200 grains with some speed. I'd prefer to not find out I'm wrong. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 7:42:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The concussion and muzzle blast would be like a 50bmg. Quote HistoryQuoted: The concussion and muzzle blast would be like a 50bmg. Muzzle flash alone might make the bear stop 
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Posted: 8/1/2022 7:44:14 PM EDT
[#40]
45-70 loaded with Garrett Hammerheads. Or an 870 loaded with 3” Black Magics.
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Posted: 8/1/2022 7:52:15 PM EDT
[#41]
Benelli R1 in .338 Win Mag.
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Posted: 8/1/2022 7:53:36 PM EDT
[#42]
My brother guides, in Texas.
He had a customer fly in from Seattle. The customer fished in Alaska, and had a run in with a Browny. Scared him. He went to a local gunsmith and asked for something for Bear defense. The smith built him a .458 AR. Told him he he had to go test it before carrying it. He flew to Texas to hunt very big hogs on his smith's advice. He wanted to see the suggested ammo's performance on something huge, and a big hog was as good as you can get. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 8:10:47 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryThere is a book called of Bench and Bear by a Alaska Territory Judge who arrived in Juneau around 1908. Hunting bears was his hobby and he killed dozens per year. He started with a 35 Remington and switched to a Garand once he was able. The Garand was a bear killing machine in the Judges hands. He made several trips to Kodiak and killed big ass Brownies but something spooked him and he never returned after his 2nd or 3rd trip. He had several other notable hunts. Once shooting an old boar with a lady friend along and the hide was rubbed badly so he removed the "Oosik" for his lady friend. Returning the next day to hunt whatever bear had claimed the kill site he found no evidence of the bear who woke up with his penis deboned. Another time he snap shot a bear which turned out to be using his penis on another bear he couldn't see which started chasing him. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 8:19:26 PM EDT
[#44]
One of these in a magnum should be excellent.
Put a fixed 3x or 4x on it, or a 1-8x, 3-9 or something with usable visibility for up close snap shooting.  Attached Filehttps://www.benelliusa.com/rifles/r1-big-game-rifles |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 8:22:21 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More than one has been converted to 458 Win Mag that blows my mind and makes my shoulder hurt. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 8:35:34 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They were popular with the Natives in SE too. In fact they were popular all over Alaska. Tons of commercial fisherman carried them. Tons of the rural areas around here have tons of them and I always wondered if it was the prison connection. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Every Inuit I have seen has a mini14 They were popular with the Natives in SE too. In fact they were popular all over Alaska. Tons of commercial fisherman carried them. Tons of the rural areas around here have tons of them and I always wondered if it was the prison connection. The natives made do with whatever was sent up here, they were at the mercy of some bean counters in SanFrancisco or Seattle. Then they adapted hunting methods to feed the people. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 9:39:51 PM EDT
[#47]
You are way overthinking a hypothetical unlikely situation.
338 winmag will easily kill big bears and I have shot moose and boo at 500 yds best all around caliber for AK. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 9:44:40 PM EDT
[#48]
M1 Garand, of course
Especially if it's a certain Arfcomer's custom Garand in 9.3x62mm |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 9:47:13 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 3 or 4 seconds? You all need to shoot some low gun Sporting clays. In 3 or 4 seconds I would be reloading Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I remember that story. I have a semi auto Remington 7400 in 30-06. With recoil, I could probably only get 3 aimed shots off in the span of time I could put 12 or so out of an AR. Probably just 2-3 slugs out of the 1301. (Say 3-4 seconds or so to shoulder and fire.) I really do. I’ve got a Montefeltro sitting here just waiting to bust some clays. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 9:48:10 PM EDT
[#50]
Remington 7400 in .35 Whelen would probably be good enough.
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