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Posted: 1/7/2018 7:37:33 PM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By gatordev: I did a little testing on this, but most of my data is from a 10.3" government profile barrel and not a 14.5". Take any and all of this with a grain of salt... -Shooting a CQBR at 50y with a -212 can gave a solid 3" drop. (Fed M193...zeroed for 50y) -Shooting a CQBR at 100y with a -212 can gave a ~4" drop. (Fed M193...zeroed for 50y) -Shooting a CQBR at 200y with a -212 can gave a 12" drop. (Fed M193...zeroed for 50y) -Shooting a M4B2 at 100y with a -212 can gave a 4" drop. (Fed M193...zeroed for 100y) -Shooting a M4B2 at 200y with a -212 can gave a..."good enough" for an 18" steel target. (Fed M193...zeroed for 100y) Both barrels were M4/government profile. Both rifles have RIS II rails. Both rifles were run with either an Elcan (mostly), an ACOG (for when the M4B2 didn't have an Elcan), or an EXPS 3 w/ G33 (when the CQBR lost the Elcan). For comparison, my 416 had near POI/POA at 200y when running a SOCOM RC and an EXPS 3 w/ G33 (Fed M193...zeroed for 50y). I'm guessing barrel profile was a big reason for that. I know I'm not answering your SOCOM RC suppressor question, but the -212 can is damn near close enough, and very repeatable, as is the SOCOM RC. The data I have (which is very little) on the SOCOM barrel is hampered with having a non-FF (KAC RAS) rail and changing optics a lot. But the basic info I have is that the SOCOM barrel with a SF RC suppressor was less reactive at 100y than the M4 profile. At the end of the day, I'd like to move my SOCOM barrel (which I'm not really using) over to my M4B2. Again, take all of this and put on the rim of your glass when making margaritas. Seriously, who cares what it looks like? If it's timed to make it work for you, then rock on. As you said, SF doesn't specify where it has to be timed to work (only what they mention in the fold-out). Personally, I have a Warcomp OT timed neutrally on my 416. It works fine, and while the suppressor notch isn't at 6:00, it only bothers others that worry about such things. Otherwise, it works fine, suppressed or otherwise. Originally Posted By DoubleTap556: Someone just posted one in the EE so I'm good now. Thank you though |
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Posted: 1/7/2018 7:41:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 871JZ]
[#2]
Glitch.
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Posted: 1/7/2018 7:41:38 PM EDT
[#3]
Dub tap, just so you know brother, front sight bases and barrels are drilled as matched pairs. Meaning no 2 will be exact....so just keep that in mind. May get lucky, may not be able to get the holes to match up (make sure it doesn't cant the FSB too) if any issues I would probably just stick with the turd
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Posted: 1/7/2018 7:41:40 PM EDT
[#4]
Glitch.
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Posted: 1/7/2018 7:44:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 871JZ]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Dub tap, just so you know brother, front sight bases and barrels are drilled as matched pairs. Meaning no 2 will be exact....so just keep that in mind. May get lucky, may not be able to get the holes to match up (make sure it doesn't cant the FSB too) if any issues I would probably just stick with the turd You may not have seen my post, but this is what I was trying to tell you before you bought that one off the EE. That's why I recommend contacting ADCO first. The pins in the new FSB and your barrel probably wont line up. IF it works, you may end up with a FSB that's canted in one direction or the other. |
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Posted: 1/7/2018 9:29:23 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 871JZ: @DoubleTap556 You may not have seen my post, but this is what I was trying to tell you before you bought that one off the EE. That's why I recommend contacting ADCO first. The pins in the new FSB and your barrel probably wont line up. IF it works, you may end up with a FSB that's canted in one direction or the other.  . Guess you learn something new everyday, I just assumed they were interchangeable. Oh well, guess I've got an extra FSB now lol.
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AR, USA
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Posted: 1/7/2018 9:31:01 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DoubleTap556: Someone just posted one in the EE so I'm good now. Thank you though |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 1/7/2018 9:41:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DoubleTap556: Saw this too late . Guess you learn something new everyday, I just assumed they were interchangeable. Oh well, guess I've got an extra FSB now lol.If the one you bought doesn't work I can send you the 2 I have and you can see if either will line up for ya if you want? |
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Posted: 1/7/2018 10:07:27 PM EDT
[#9]
Originally Posted By DoubleTap556: Saw this too late . Guess you learn something new everyday, I just assumed they were interchangeable. Oh well, guess I've got an extra FSB now lol.Originally Posted By 5pt56:
Well and to everyone's point, I've been lucky and used a different FSB but I've also had to go through a pile of them to find one that lined up and wasn't canted. If the one you bought doesn't work I can send you the 2 I have and you can see if either will line up for ya if you want? |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 1/8/2018 3:30:50 AM EDT
[#10]
Do the surefire 3/4 prong and warcomp flash hider mounts have a blind hole pre drilled for pin and weld? Id like to see a good pic of a pin and weld job on one of these muzzle devices to see exactly where its located, and how clean it looks. Im tossing around the idea of building a block 2 non fsp, but it would have to be pinned and welded. thanks in advance for any help with this
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Posted: 1/8/2018 3:36:45 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ckopp636:
Do the surefire 3/4 prong and warcomp flash hider mounts have a blind hole pre drilled for pin and weld? Id like to see a good pic of a pin and weld job on one of these muzzle devices to see exactly where its located, and how clean it looks. Im tossing around the idea of building a block 2 non fsp, but it would have to be pinned and welded. thanks in advance for any help with this |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 1/8/2018 3:46:16 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
Many of these that I have seen don't have an actual hole but they do have a dimpled area at the 6 o'clock that would make drilling cleaner and easier (i.e. your drill bit wont slip) Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
Originally Posted By ckopp636:
Do the surefire 3/4 prong and warcomp flash hider mounts have a blind hole pre drilled for pin and weld? Id like to see a good pic of a pin and weld job on one of these muzzle devices to see exactly where its located, and how clean it looks. Im tossing around the idea of building a block 2 non fsp, but it would have to be pinned and welded. thanks in advance for any help with this the pic I found online 
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IA, USA
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Posted: 1/8/2018 2:33:21 PM EDT
[#13]
What kind of price should one expect to pay for a Gen 1 LMT FDE Sopmod stock?
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AR, USA
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Posted: 1/8/2018 2:55:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5pt56]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TigerHawk:
What kind of price should one expect to pay for a Gen 1 LMT FDE Sopmod stock? Edit: doing a quick 30 day search on the EE it looks like a black fde painted one went for $100 and another in better shape for $180. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 1/8/2018 4:10:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Thanks, that’s pretty much what I suspected. Reached out to member here who’s sells lots of AR parts on Gunbroker who has one listed, and he made it sound like people were buying them at $325.. seems crazy and I was hoping that wasn’t the norm.
I’ll keep and eye out on the EE. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/8/2018 6:52:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 871JZ:
I care what it looks like. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 1/8/2018 10:39:36 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ckopp636: Upon more searching, I was able to find a decent pic of a pin and weld job for a warcomp. The area that is pinned is a little wider than it looks in pics of the FH by itself. If you leave a small mound of weld over the pin, will a suppressor still attach fine, or does it need to be ground smooth? I pinned and welded the A2 on my block 1 but Id really hate to mess up a surefire mount. the pic I found online https://i.imgur.com/HY2gRTC.jpg |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 1/8/2018 10:53:31 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By scottr: Anybody have a source for the shims? Doesn't look like SF has them on their website. I bought a used FH and the only shims I had stick out. |
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Posted: 1/8/2018 11:14:42 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By scottr: Anybody have a source for the shims? Doesn't look like SF has them on their website. I bought a used FH and the only shims I had stick out. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 3:06:46 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevieJ309:
Supposedly Surefire will send you some if you ask. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevieJ309:
Originally Posted By scottr: Anybody have a source for the shims? Doesn't look like SF has them on their website. I bought a used FH and the only shims I had stick out. 
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AR, USA
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Posted: 1/9/2018 9:57:24 PM EDT
[#21]
@871JZ
My apologies! It's really everyone else's fault if I wasn't working on an epic clone list all at once. 
https://www.ar15.com/forums/equipment-exchange/-/159-1728841/?#top |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 1:44:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 871JZ]
[#22]
Originally Posted By gatordev: Godspeed. But looks will matter little when actually shooting it. Originally Posted By scottr: Anybody have a source for the shims? Doesn't look like SF has them on their website. I bought a used FH and the only shims I had stick out. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 1:47:31 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 5pt56:
@871JZ My apologies! It's really everyone else's fault if I wasn't working on an epic clone list all at once.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/equipment-exchange/-/159-1728841/?#top Nice. You do know about the secret Colt parts site, right? |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:55:48 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 871JZ:
Sounds odd, but I've bought a few Gemtech shim kits off Amazon for around $10 shipped. They came with something like 20 different shims per kit. I didn't want to order another set from a different manufacturer and have the same problem. |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 1/10/2018 1:03:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 871JZ: @5pt56 Nice. You do know about the secret Colt parts site, right? 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/10/2018 5:59:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: gatordev]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 871JZ: I shoot plenty, but I'm also a bit of a collector, so I like them to look the way I like them to look. Personal preference, shared by many. Pay attention to all these threads and you'll see what I mean. Wanting your guns to look the way you want them to look isn't out of the ordinary. 
Completely incorrect lower receiver profile. Somehow I persevere. @871JZ, my intent isn't to be picking on you (or anyone). I just take the clone game with a grain of salt. Everyone makes exceptions on builds due to whatever limitations they may personally have. I just think some (and not necessarily you) take themselves a little too seriously in the clone world. But I'll get off my soapbox, and again, nothing personal towards you or your preferences. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 6:53:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 871JZ]
[#27]
Originally Posted By 5pt56:
No i dont and why do I feel like there's a high probability that you're messing with me or a punch line coming in your next response?? 
Originally Posted By gatordev: Trust me, I get it. But this is where I roll my eyes. People pay attention and want their guns to look a certain way...right up until it becomes too inconvenient for them, however that may be defined. That's why I start out from the beginning knowing my "clone" isn't really a clone because I like shooting them and set them up for what works for me. It's also why this isn't clone correct (because...pic thread!): https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1508/24688426956_c6b53a4b89_b.jpg Completely incorrect lower receiver profile. Somehow I persevere. @871JZ, my intent isn't to be picking on you (or anyone). I just take the clone game with a grain of salt. Everyone makes exceptions on builds due to whatever limitations they may personally have. I just think some (and not necessarily you) take themselves a little too seriously in the clone world. But I'll get off my soapbox, and again, nothing personal towards you or your preferences. And I get what you're saying, but let's remember this conversation started after seeing the picture of Geissele's new Block III/URGI upper with a "technically" crooked flash hider. Like some others stated, and I agree, I personally think that looks like shit. I think the better option would be to sell it without the Warcomp pinned, or with a pinned 3 prong. That way if it's a pinned 3 prong, no timing is required and it doesn't look goofy, and if the buyer wants a Warcomp where timing is required, then they can clock it however they wish and pin it themselves. If it was an upper that was built to suit an individual's personal needs then it would make sense, but it isn't. It's an upper designed to be marketed and sold to the public, most of which who care more about how their gun looks than how it performs, and would look at that crooked flash hider and say "WTF?". Lol. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 7:06:22 PM EDT
[#28]
XM4 Block II
Waiting on my correct upper receiver. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 7:06:38 PM EDT
[#29]
@5pt56
Remember, Shhh!!! 
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Posted: 1/10/2018 7:23:27 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Infidel4life11:
XM4 Block II
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/325471/IMG_0393_JPG-416679.jpg Waiting on my correct upper receiver. I like it.
@Augee check this shit out lol |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 7:31:58 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Infidel4life11:
XM4 Block II
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/325471/IMG_0393_JPG-416679.jpg Waiting on my correct upper receiver. 
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Posted: 1/10/2018 7:33:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aaron580:
This is quite possibly my favorite block II clone and I don't know why... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aaron580:
Originally Posted By Infidel4life11:
XM4 Block II
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/325471/IMG_0393_JPG-416679.jpg Waiting on my correct upper receiver.
Fawesome sauce right there. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 7:34:47 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aaron580: This is quite possibly my favorite block II clone and I don't know why... |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 1/10/2018 8:28:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 871JZ:
@5pt56 Remember, Shhh!!! 
Shhhh about what? lol 
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Posted: 1/10/2018 8:30:26 PM EDT
[#35]
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
I think because it brings out our inner retard. Could you imagine how ridiculous it would look if it had a continuous RIS II and a KAC 99051?
Fawesome sauce right there. Originally Posted By Infidel4life11: Still thinking about mounting the SU-231A-PEQ on top of the carry handle lol. 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/10/2018 8:41:59 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Infidel4life11: Still thinking about mounting the SU-231A-PEQ on top of the carry handle lol. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 9:24:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4A1SOPMOD: Mount it on the handguard |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 9:51:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 871JZ]
[#38]
Originally Posted By Infidel4life11:
XM4 Block II
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/325471/IMG_0393_JPG-416679.jpg Waiting on my correct upper receiver.
Originally Posted By 5pt56:
Shhhh about what? lol
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Posted: 1/11/2018 11:22:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: MegaTarsal]
[#39]
I'm going to be listing my ATPIAL-C, dual switch, and tan WMX200 later today in case anyone is interested. Just wanted to give the cloners a heads up.
EE LISTING |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 1/11/2018 11:24:45 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cschelk2:
I'm going to be listing my ATPIAL-C, dual switch, and tan WMX200 later today in case anyone is interested. Just wanted to give the cloners a heads up. 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/11/2018 4:40:15 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 871JZ:
Nice rifle. And I get what you're saying, but let's remember this conversation started after seeing the picture of Geissele's new Block III/URGI upper with a "technically" crooked flash hider. Like some others stated, and I agree, I personally think that looks like shit. I think the better option would be to sell it without the Warcomp pinned, or with a pinned 3 prong. That way if it's a pinned 3 prong, no timing is required and it doesn't look goofy, and if the buyer wants a Warcomp where timing is required, then they can clock it however they wish and pin it themselves. If it was an upper that was built to suit an individual's personal needs then it would make sense, but it isn't. It's an upper designed to be marketed and sold to the public, most of which who care more about how their gun looks than how it performs, and would look at that crooked flash hider and say "WTF?". Lol. But moving on...(might be a repeat...I can't remember) 
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Posted: 1/13/2018 7:41:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 871JZ]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gatordev:
I understand your point. I don't agree with the argument that it's crooked, as SF designed it to be run that way, but I also understand a portion of the consumer population doesn't know that which would illicit the reaction you describe. You say that a pinned 3-prong doesn't require timing, but it does if one cares where the suppressor lug goes and where the pin position is. The 3-prong has the same issue as the Warcomp since it's the same lug design. But moving on...(might be a repeat...I can't remember) https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4518/38262521036_5556622551_b.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gatordev:
Originally Posted By 871JZ:
Nice rifle. And I get what you're saying, but let's remember this conversation started after seeing the picture of Geissele's new Block III/URGI upper with a "technically" crooked flash hider. Like some others stated, and I agree, I personally think that looks like shit. I think the better option would be to sell it without the Warcomp pinned, or with a pinned 3 prong. That way if it's a pinned 3 prong, no timing is required and it doesn't look goofy, and if the buyer wants a Warcomp where timing is required, then they can clock it however they wish and pin it themselves. If it was an upper that was built to suit an individual's personal needs then it would make sense, but it isn't. It's an upper designed to be marketed and sold to the public, most of which who care more about how their gun looks than how it performs, and would look at that crooked flash hider and say "WTF?". Lol. But moving on...(might be a repeat...I can't remember) https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4518/38262521036_5556622551_b.jpg Surefire designed the Warcomp to be timed with the SF logo at 12:00 and the index lug at 6:00, with the OPTION of neutral or left hand timing if you're not a right handed shooter or if you don't want to take advantage of the right hand bias built into the device. When I said the 3P doesn't require timing, I meant that it has no ports like the Warcomp, so naturally it would be installed one way, which is straight up and down. SF logo at 12:00 and index lug at 6:00. Unless you want your can's release lever in a certain location, why would you time it any other way? I've only ever seen 3/4 prongs timed straight up and down, and that's the way I've always done it. I believe it was designed to be timed to 12:00. This puts the logo up top, the index lug at the bottom, and also keeps one of the tines dead at the 6:00 position, which minimizes dust signature when firing prone. These same things apply to the Warcomp, as well, and work great for the majority of shooters who are right handed. This all seems like common sense stuff to me regarding the design and installation of SF flash hiders. ETA: Don't take my posts as me being a dick. I just find it interesting to have a friendly disagreement on topics that interest me.
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Posted: 1/13/2018 7:43:37 PM EDT
[#43]
I never knew that CMMG made a 14.5: SOCOM profiled barrel. Not interested in one, just news to me.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/equipment-exchange/CMMG-14-5-SOCOM-upper/138-1729849/ https://imgur.com/gallery/vwryc |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 1/13/2018 7:46:00 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 871JZ:
I never knew that CMMG made a 14.5: SOCOM profiled barrel. Not interested in one, just news to me. https://www.ar15.com/forums/equipment-exchange/CMMG-14-5-SOCOM-upper/138-1729849/ https://imgur.com/gallery/vwryc I'm with you... not interested in one. |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 7:48:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 871JZ]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 5pt56:
I saw that today and thought "huh.. who knew".... I'm with you... not interested in one. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 5pt56:
Originally Posted By 871JZ:
I never knew that CMMG made a 14.5: SOCOM profiled barrel. Not interested in one, just news to me. https://www.ar15.com/forums/equipment-exchange/CMMG-14-5-SOCOM-upper/138-1729849/ https://imgur.com/gallery/vwryc I'm with you... not interested in one. ETA: Am I reading the barrel markings right? I think I am. What's with the Colt style markings? MPC?? "CMMG MPC 5.56 NATO 1/7" |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 1/13/2018 8:01:09 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 871JZ: Me, too. Just saw it and never knew about it. ETA: Am I reading the barrel markings right? I think I am. What's with the Colt style markings? MPC?? "CMMG MPC 5.56 NATO 1/7" "CMMG M4 barrels have the following standard features. Mil-spec certified 4150 chrome-moly vanadium steel barrel 5.56x45 NATO chamber 1/7 twist Hard chrome lined chamber and bore M4 feed ramps/Barrel Extension 11 degree recessed target crown 1/2x28 Threaded Muzzle Parkerized Barrel, including under the front sight base F marked front sight base for flat top receivers Round M4 Handguard cap M4 contour for attaching 40mm M203 and 37mm Less Lethal launchers Each barrel is individually magnetic particle tested. Barrels are engraved CMMG MPC 5.56 NATO 1/7. Barrel specific features are listed with the individual item. " |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 1/13/2018 8:02:33 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 5pt56:
You're reading it right. Below is a cut and paste that was accurate about 8 years ago. If the barrel is still stamped MPC then I would consider it a "good one" before they stopped using mil-spec certified steel for their barrels. "CMMG M4 barrels have the following standard features. Mil-spec certified 4150 chrome-moly vanadium steel barrel 5.56x45 NATO chamber 1/7 twist Hard chrome lined chamber and bore M4 feed ramps/Barrel Extension 11 degree recessed target crown 1/2x28 Threaded Muzzle Parkerized Barrel, including under the front sight base F marked front sight base for flat top receivers Round M4 Handguard cap M4 contour for attaching 40mm M203 and 37mm Less Lethal launchers Each barrel is individually magnetic particle tested. Barrels are engraved CMMG MPC 5.56 NATO 1/7. Barrel specific features are listed with the individual item. " |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 8:09:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 871JZ]
[#48]
Originally Posted By 5pt56:
You're reading it right. Below is a cut and paste that was accurate about 8 years ago. If the barrel is still stamped MPC then I would consider it a "good one" before they stopped using mil-spec certified steel for their barrels. "CMMG M4 barrels have the following standard features. Mil-spec certified 4150 chrome-moly vanadium steel barrel 5.56x45 NATO chamber 1/7 twist Hard chrome lined chamber and bore M4 feed ramps/Barrel Extension 11 degree recessed target crown 1/2x28 Threaded Muzzle Parkerized Barrel, including under the front sight base F marked front sight base for flat top receivers Round M4 Handguard cap M4 contour for attaching 40mm M203 and 37mm Less Lethal launchers Each barrel is individually magnetic particle tested. Barrels are engraved CMMG MPC 5.56 NATO 1/7. Barrel specific features are listed with the individual item. " Originally Posted By 5pt56: Edit: opinion of 1 here, I think CMMG quality (loosely defined here) has gone down since the days of the above specs. I don't know about their current barrels, but the one I linked certainly seems like a quality piece. I was just curious why they stamped it "MPC". This has always been something unique to Colt as far as I'm aware. ETA: Someone that's pretty deep into Colt stuff once told me that CMMG sources certain barrel components directly from Colt. I don't know if this was correct information, or if it included the barrels themselves, but the Colt style markings on the CMMG barrel made me remember this. @pezboytate Any input on this topic? Just thought you may know since you seem to be very knowledgeable in this thread. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/14/2018 4:35:07 AM EDT
[#49]
I'm trying to collect some more opinions on Eotechs being run currently. Are people still running the original FDE Eotech 553s?
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CA, USA
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Posted: 1/14/2018 8:48:17 PM EDT
[#50]
Anyone need a brand new WMX? Want to check here before I list it
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