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Posted: 3/6/2006 11:57:03 PM EDT
[#1]
Wow that was quick. Thanks. When I submit the paperwork I just pick a caliber and barrel lenght? If I decide to buy another upper for it I will need to call them and have them add it to my file? |
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Posted: 3/7/2006 12:00:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: gsu2720]
[#2]
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Posted: 3/7/2006 6:19:36 AM EDT
[#3]
Right, so if you have a registered AR with an 11.5 inch upper for example, and then get a second upper with a 14.5 in barrel you have to notify ATF of the change. What do you do if you want to swap them out routinely say everytime you go to the range? Notify the ATF every week?
Or, if you own a registered SBR with an 11.5 in barrel for example, do you have to notify ATF if you swap the short barreled upper for an upper with a 16 or 18 inch barrel? |
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Posted: 3/7/2006 8:47:40 AM EDT
[#4]
I have heard that some will tell the ATF that the configuration "may change" to whatever you you want to get or currently have. This would allow you to go back and forth. I am not sure about the validity of this, it is only what I have heard.
If someone with a little more experience dealing with the ATF would chime in, maybe they could clear some of this up. |
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Posted: 3/7/2006 11:19:14 AM EDT
[#5]
Is caliber listed as...
.223 (5.56) ...acceptable ? |
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Posted: 3/7/2006 1:07:31 PM EDT
[#6]
If you can fit all that into the space go for it. If not, .223 will suffice. |
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Posted: 3/7/2006 1:14:14 PM EDT
[#7]
I think I fit about 14 or 15 different calibers on mine, everything I thought I might use down the road. |
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Posted: 3/8/2006 4:21:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Question:
Do you measure the length of a rifle with a 16" barrel and a colapsing/folding stock with the stock closed or open? |
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Posted: 3/8/2006 4:50:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Open! |
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Posted: 3/8/2006 5:04:29 PM EDT
[#10]
Thanks, thats what I thought but someone told me diffferent, almost thought my 10/22 was get my ass in trouble. |
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Posted: 3/9/2006 7:16:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: watersniper]
[#11]
IF you have ONE and ONLY ONE lower receiver, and it's an SBR registered lower telling them you are going to change the barrel length now locks you into the new barrel length? What if you want to take both short barrels to the range and use them both in the same day? Send a letter each time the barrels are swapped? |
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Posted: 3/9/2006 8:38:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tony_k]
[#12]
I would send them a letter along these lines:
Dear BATF: I am the registered owner of a Short-Barrelled Rifle, Serial Number 123xyz, caliber 5.56mm, with a 14.5-inch barrel. I intend to also use it on occasion with upper receivers in the following calibers/barrel lengths: 9mm 10.5", 5.56 11.5", .22RF 14", .550 Bozo 1.75", ...(etc.) None of the above will be permanent modifications, and the caliber and barrel length of record will remain 5.56mm and 14.5 inches. Please make a notation in the NFA Registry to reflect the above occasional use. Thank you for your time and consideration. I remain your obedient and humble servant, tony k OK, you can skip the "obedient and humble servant" and ".550 Bozo" references, but you get my drift. In a few weeks or months, you should get a letter back from BATF saying the Registry has been so amended. Keep a copy of the letter with your Form 1. |
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Posted: 3/9/2006 11:03:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Thanks for the clarification tony_k.
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Posted: 3/11/2006 2:34:45 PM EDT
[#14]
Alright, get ready for a few stupid NFG questions. I have had my CLEO sign my Form 1's, but I need some clarification on a couple things to ensure that my forms are legit and not kicked back:
1) Is there a minimum OAL? I listed 17.5' on the Form 1 for a 7' barrel. Do they really care, and is this kosher? 2) In Box 4c I listed 5.56 & 9mm. Should I delete the 9mm and insert it in 4h under Additional Description, or is OK as listed? 3) Where the hell do I send the forms? WV or DC? 4) Check payable to whom? ATF or Dep. of Treasury? 5) Last but not least, if I do need to make a change to the form, is white-out acceptable, or do I use the one line and initial method? Thanks to all that help. |
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Posted: 3/11/2006 3:46:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: fq1234]
[#15]
2. It should be fine the way it is 3. Do you have a current form? (there should be a date on it somewhere) The address should be printed near the top of the first page, above where you put your name. Mine still says DC. If you send it there, it should be forwarded to WV after the check clears. I think you are supposed to send them directly to WV. 4. put a checkmark in box 1a. It says on my form to make it out to Dept. of the Treasury, I've done it both ways though. 5. I have used whiteout in the past. |
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Posted: 3/13/2006 10:44:17 AM EDT
[#16]
Hey guys,
I was wondering how long it's been taking applications to process lately. I'm looking at moving out of state in late June or July, but I'd really like to get the process started. Would I be crazy to try to submit an application now? I'm guessing "yes," but if they've been turning them around in about 3 months or so, I'd be alright. Thanks, Dave |
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Posted: 3/14/2006 2:06:29 AM EDT
[#17]
What is the preferred way to send the forms? UPS, FedEx, USPS, or does it not really matter?
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Posted: 3/14/2006 8:04:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: gsu2720]
[#18]
I was told to send them USPS Priority Mail with Signature Confirmation. That is what I did, and the shipping was about $6. It was delivered in WV within 3 days from Georgia.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2006 3:18:46 PM EDT
[#19]
So I have a question and please forgive my ignorance. I would like to build and SBR sometime this summer hopefully. The upper is from POF and is Approximately 9.25". So if I buy a pain jane lower form my FFL dealer and build tha tand register that as my SBR and then buy the upper does POF ship the upper to my FFL dealer and I have to wait on getting the forms approved before I can take posession of it. And how would I go about getting the Serial # off the upper to put it inthe paperwork.
Again i apologize for my ignorance. 
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Posted: 3/14/2006 3:56:26 PM EDT
[#20]
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VA, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2006 4:15:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Thank you for clearing that up for me. I appreciate it.
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Posted: 3/15/2006 11:42:46 PM EDT
[#22]
Originally Posted By SSeric02:
......so if you have a registered AR with an 11.5 inch upper for example, and then get a second upper with a 14.5 in barrel you have to notify ATF of the change. What do you do if you want to swap them out routinely say everytime you go to the range? Notify the ATF every week? What would happen if you registered a second "stripped lower" so that the summation including the parts in the above quote would equal two complete SBRs. That being so, you could swap both said uppers with the first lower at will. I am asking this because I also own additional semi-ARs and don't want any legality problems. Is this a dumb idea or does it make sense? |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 7:22:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: gsu2720]
[#23]
Dear BATF: I am the registered owner of a Short-Barrelled Rifle, Serial Number 123xyz, caliber 5.56mm, with a 14.5-inch barrel. I intend to also use it on occasion with upper receivers in the following calibers/barrel lengths: 9mm 10.5", 5.56 11.5", .22RF 14", .550 Bozo 1.75", ...(etc.) None of the above will be permanent modifications, and the caliber and barrel length of record will remain 5.56mm and 14.5 inches. Please make a notation in the NFA Registry to reflect the above occasional use. Thank you for your time and consideration. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 11:23:08 AM EDT
[#24]
Your hypothetical letter seems far to simple in content. It appears to be asking indirect permission to be in possession of a greater number of shorty uppers than the number of registered lowers. It also does not address the possibility of having additional non-registered semi-ARs in your possession.
Again I ask,... would it not be "safer" for your number of shorty uppers not exceed the number of registered lowers in your possession considering the additional presence of non-registered semi-AR lowers? Am I not the only one seeing the potential problem here? Your hypothetical letter brings up another question. Why would you send in unnecessary letters to the ATF? Does one really want the attention? I suspect they are busy enough without having to take the time to respond to such requests. It just seems easier to register an additional "stripped lower" so you can enjoy dual uppers without the risk. Not trying to stir the pot, just trying to clarify some of this before jumping into the NFA game. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 2:47:14 PM EDT
[#25]
So let me get this straight, it is completely legal to own multiple uppers for a registered lower if and only if you have no other non-registered lowers in your possession?
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Posted: 3/16/2006 3:53:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: PRAIRIERAT]
[#26]
Never mind... I see this has already been covered.
The BATF letter that I've seen says that you shouldn't have spare short barrel uppers around if you also own a non-SBR AR-15. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS WASHINGTON, DC 20226 MAR 29 2000 Dear Mr. : This refers to your letter of January 22, 1999, requesting information on the legality of possessing a registered full auto AR15 and also possessing one or more semiautomatic pre-1994 assembled AR15 rifles. You appended a number of specific questions relating to this subject which will be answered in the order received. Is it legal to own both? There are no provisions under the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA) or the National Firearms Act (NFA) that prevent an individual from possessing an AR15 registered machinegun and one or more semiautomatic AR15 rifles at the same time. If legal to own both, which spare parts for the registered gun can you also own? Any weapon which shoots automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger meets the definition of a machinegun in section 5845(b) of the NFA. An AR15 rifle which is assembled with certain M16 machinegun fire control components, and which is capable of shooting automatically is a machinegun as defined. The definition of a machinegun in section 5845(b) also includes any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person. Thus, an AR15 rifle possessed with separate M16 machinegun components can meet the definition of a machinegun, if the rifle shoots automatically when the components are installed. The fact that a person lawfully possesses a registered NFA firearm does not grant authorization to possess additional non-registered firearms. A person who possesses a registered M16 machinegun and a semiautomatic AR15 and a separate quantity of M16 machinegun components could be in possession of two machineguns. We advise any person who possesses an AR15 rifle not to possess M16 fire control components (trigger, hammer, disconnector, selector, and bolt carrier). If a person possessed only the M16 machinegun and spare M16 fire control components for that machinegun, the person would possess only one machinegun. Is it legal to use the upper receiver off of the semi-auto AR's on the registered AR if they are different lengths and calibers than listed on the Form 4's? Before changing the caliber of a registered machinegun you should notify the NFA Branch in writing of the proposed change. Can you have several short barrel uppers (less than 16 inches) for the registered AR and still own semi-auto AR's? The definition of a firearm in section 5845 of the NFA includes a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length. An individual possessing more than one short (less than 16 inches) barreled upper receiver for a registered AR15 machinegun (or SBR) along with one or more semiautomatic AR15 rifles would have under their possession of control an unregistered short barreled rifle, a violation of the NFA. If you change the barrel length or caliber do I need to notify your office if the change is not a permanent one? This question was answered under Question 3. We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry. If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us. Sincerely yours, [signed] Edward M. Owen, Jr. Chief, Firearms Technology Branch |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/19/2006 4:39:05 PM EDT
[#27]
Not to beat a dead horse, but do I have to write the ATF when I put a 18in upper on my SBR reciever?
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Posted: 3/20/2006 1:39:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: eklikwhoa]
[#28]
what would one put in 3a of the form 1? it asks for TRADE NAME. lawyer told me to use the LLC name
filing under a LLC |
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Posted: 3/20/2006 4:11:12 PM EDT
[#29]
I just got my Form 1 back. Corp route (LLC). I left trade name blank, since I'm not operating under any different names. I took it as I would fill in "Acme Company" if had that registered as a trade name in the case where my actual LLC is "Acme Company, LLC". You see that a lot, like "Stag Arms" is a trade name. The LLC behind it is "Stag Arms, LLC" but that doesn't look as pretty. In the end, I guess it's a moot point if you fill in the same information in the trade name and the applicant box. |
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Posted: 3/21/2006 4:59:56 PM EDT
[#30]
I am "making" a preban AR15 into an SBR. What do I put on line 4h???? Will that be my name and address, which I will have to put on the reciever after the form 1 is approved???
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Posted: 3/22/2006 1:36:46 PM EDT
[#31]
I've heard of people putting "None" or leaving it blank and supposedly that's fine. On mine I put my corp details, I figured it has to be marked anyway, so it couldn't hurt to list those markings in 4h. So something like "Acme Inc. Anytown, NY" should work. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 1:43:17 PM EDT
[#32]
Thanks,
So I'll put my name, city and state. Is that the norm?? |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 1:44:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Punani]
[#33]
I'm confused filling out the certificate of citizenship. this one
In #1 I have my LLC What do I put in #2? My name or someone certifying the LLC? Don't understand it  The who are #3, 4 and 5 for? Me, or the person certifying? Very confusing...please help 
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Posted: 3/22/2006 2:56:08 PM EDT
[#34]
Yes, name, city and state. Or "recognized abbreviations". |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 3:03:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tctlrld]
[#35]
You put your name (John Smith or whatever) in box 2, since you're the actual person certifying your eligibility for Company X. In box 3 you put "USA" unless it's something else. Assuming your an American citizen, you leave box 4 and 5 blank, or fill them in with N/A. 1. Acme Inc 2. Smith, John H 3. USA 4-6: leave blank 7. Sign and date |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/22/2006 6:39:35 PM EDT
[#36]
Quick refresh- Form 1. On the citizenship forms, do I need duplicates on those as well?
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Posted: 3/22/2006 6:59:12 PM EDT
[#37]
Yes. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 8:27:17 PM EDT
[#38]
Ah, missed that one. So both Form 1 and citizenship go in duplicate!? |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 9:56:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tctlrld]
[#39]
That's how most people do it. I prepared two "packages" with all the forms, and attached the check with one of them. Paperclip, mail out. Lets assume that you really don't need the citizenship paper in duplicates, worst case you just wasted a single piece of paper... |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/23/2006 1:08:09 PM EDT
[#40]
Yeah I was planning dupes anyways, but was curious. thanks.
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Posted: 3/24/2006 4:37:41 PM EDT
[#41]
I am working on my very first Form 1 and had some questions so I called the NFA branch. I asked about the 4.c and 4.e (gauge and barrel). I was told that I could only put ONE caliber and ONE length on the form or my form would be kicked back to me. He said if I wanted to change either, the ATF would have to be notified. I specifically asked about listing 9mm and 5.56 as well as "less than 16" and was told those were NOT acceptable.
Any remarks, or is this just how it is now? I meant to aks about 4.f overall length as well. And in 4.d Model - is that AR-15, 6450 or Colt or what? Of course, my local Chief will not sign off.....so I will try the Sheriff next week. And I thought getting $200 out of my wife was the hard part! |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2006 5:15:38 PM EDT
[#42]
What is the number on the Citizenship form? I am having trouble locating it. I have the form "Certification of Compliance with 18 USC" form 1140-0061. Is this the correct form?
Thanks |
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Posted: 3/24/2006 5:20:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GA-Dawg]
[#43]
I know others have gotten these...but...I finally got a response to SBR marking of a kit gun.
It is as follows:  But is says NOTHING about not being able to put the marking under the hanguards! 
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Posted: 3/24/2006 5:27:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Punani]
[#44]
www.atf.treas.gov/forms/pdfs/f533020.pdf There ya go.. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2006 10:02:57 PM EDT
[#45]
What do you guys put down as the reason for manufacture on the Form 1?
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Posted: 3/25/2006 3:19:45 AM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 3/25/2006 9:45:52 AM EDT
[#47]
Do your initials satisfy the "recognized abbreviations" requirement? They are what one uses whenever initialing specific itmes or pages on some legal documents after all. |
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Posted: 3/25/2006 5:46:23 PM EDT
[#48]
Just to be safe, I'd use your first initial and full last name.
Postal abbreviations will work for location. |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 4/2/2006 3:53:02 PM EDT
[#49]
This may be a stupid question but here it goes... When ordering a SBR barrel do the retailers ask for a copy of the form 1? What if you have a pistol ar that has no form 1?
Thanks Monoskier |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 10:01:37 PM EDT
[#50]
most places dont ask |
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