You can always recycle legacy gear.  Old doesn't mean unusable (see Ukraine).

Attached File



The human form is generally the same around the world.  Russians have copied western-style layout (with hippo belt):

Oh man that's what I call defense re-utilization.

Not gonna lie, this is pretty sexy.

No doubt that as been said by DIz people can and will be thrifty with gear, however your first pic is a rig by Hub City Outdoors and is as expensive as any other modern one, this is just fashion for larpers and youtubers (which is nothing negative). In my opinion they are trying to copy what Darin Talbot from Extreme Gear Labs has been doing for a while, but with less success than EGL IMHO (unless they are trying to copy the old russian lazuchik chest rig).
Want to see real thrifty gear? i bought this from a Army ranger for my collection. one is a alice chest rig made with a reverse mounted belt, alice pouches and shoulder straps made with machine gun spare barrel bag carrying straps. Also alice suspenders rigged with detachable TLBV panels attached with grenade rings and mini carabiners.



Regarding the tailored night camo parka, Travis Rolph is now a prominent figure in the tactical gear world today, maybe someone already asked him why he did that, if it was a fashion statement or had a varying degree of use in the field.
I won't discuss the Ukraine assertion, i think we can discuss more about knockoff/chinese items in use more than about a couple of Chechens manning checkpoints with a mosin, steel helmet and a veshmeshok.

Regarding the Russian Smersh (won't go into its roots and variations, but there are basically two variants, one closer to british plce, the other to an enhanced ALICE with h suspenders) I was just thinking about it yesterday.
I saw from IWA pics that Helikon showed a new "chicom" chest rig. I said to myself "hey, are those things coming in fashion again? i still have my old one made by Colin Baird (762 tactical, i have a very early circa 2008 one in SOE colors, OD with black trimmings) which is identical, people definitely have no memory".  Then i stooped and thought "hey, 762 tactical also made a LBE".
Back when Larping dressed as Russians was cool and people started to appreciate the SMersh webbing design 762 tactical made their "partisan LBV", which was a full fledged sewn LBE. Aptly named partisan with a nod to the russian partizan camouflage and partizan LBE and a nod to the fact that a citizen may become a partisan. I will give credit to Colin Baird for making such a LBE with the idea that the citizen (which was the target customer of his business) may end up on foot for a long period carrying sustainment items. The rig was very american, you can see is not level on the back, and may not be the ideal shelf for a beltless pack, but i think it was cool. It was definitely inspired by the London Bridge Trading 1195 series, but without the floating foam inside the belt. Just like the LBT 1195 it was very expensive, around 500$, i don't think many were sold. The LBT itself has its heritage in the Israeli forces EPhod webbing, itself a well thought and practical design; LBT americanized it and made it riverine operation friendly.
762 tactical Partisan LBV

Again, Israeli ephod webbing (those are italian issue copies of the "48 hours" model, there is a "24 hours" model with less pouches and less padding)

And again belt pad comparison of a IDF ephod, British sewn webbing and alice webbing with belt pad, all sized for the same person. i think it is a good comparison to understand how the british webbing wears

Quick question in regard to bergens. I’m only doing it here because we have discussed it in this thread before. Not trying to sidetrack things.

I ordered one and was able to get a PLCE bergen for $45 shipped.  They advertise their sizes as large and medium, meant for users above/below 5’7 respectively. Mistakenly, I made the assumption that they were differentiating between long and short back bergens. The one I received is labeled long. Is it really a big difference between the long and short back? It seems to fit well enough. I did find another online supplier that definitively advertises the pack as a short back version. The downside is the place I originally ordered from does not take returns on surplus items. Should I stick with the original long pack or should I eat the $45 and order the short back version?TIA

Well at those prices, I'd eat the long back and get another short back, IF you plan on wearing belt kit, and you're around 6' or so (torso length around 16-17").  If you are taller (torso length 18"+), then a long back might just work for you.  If not, use it as an alternative for when you might be wearing a pc/chest rig config and need a full pack waistbelt (such as cold weather operations, where you need more kit).   Or just sell it to a tall dude.  

It's too bad these idiots cannot describe what they sell better than that.  Technically, the short back WAS for shorter individuals, and the long back for tree top lovers.  So you should have been ok with that assumption.  It's just the grunts who have taken to shortbacks for wear with rucksacks; I don't think that was intentional.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/455093/20150820-FOI06779_Demise_of_1975_Pattern_Design.pdf

While searching i found this interesting read, part of an army booklet. It goes from the first trials of the PLCE (1975) to Iraq war. I think it is a good read from the MOD perspective on how things work and a look at the different requirements between branches. Nice insight on chest rigs, assault vests, civilian packs, troop feedbacks and such.

I just discovered that they made two kidney pouches instead of a buttpack just because they had to put their non folding full size shovel handle between those pouches and couldn't do it with a large buttpack (which they trialed).

@cap6888

Can you post links to the two packs?

I'm 6'8" and might be looking for a surplus pack. Might be able to take it off your hands if it'd work with the kit I purchased from Kit Monster and is too tall for you.

@towerofpower94

Link for the long back (medium on their website)

https://colemans.com/british-military-plce-rucksack-dpm-camo

Seems like the short back I found is now listed as OOS. I think it was a glitch, because there was a drop down box that was for the side pouches (I’m guessing to opt with or without) but the drop downs were empty. I sent an email asking about it, and now it says OOS. Guess I’m keeping the long back.

Colemans description was confusing.
Maybe they never looked at the ID tag that is sewn into the top flap that has "Long Convoluted Back" on it.
I could almost climb into it (but I am 5'6")
Well made pack in decent condition, but way to big for me.
They did have some good Osprey PLCE utility pouches recently.

The best source for good (cheap) shortbacks has been ebay.  Buy straight from the Brits and you know what you're getting.  Yes the shipping, but they're so cheap you're still getting a bargain.

The next step up is kitmonster.  You might pay a bit more but it's guaranteed good kit.

I swear next time I go over I'm brining back a bunch for you lot.      

I'm 6'3" with somewhat "longish" torso and arms; I must wear "Tall" shirts and coats.

Will the "tall" Brit pack linked above (Coleman's) work for the belt kit which is the topic of this thread?  Will it work OK for me?

Or should I simply use the "Other Ranks" Brit pack I already own?

Raf you are tailor-built for the long back.  It depends on your torso length, which in your case, I'm guessing would come in nicely.  You have to be long enough to let the ruck rest on the shoulder straps up top, but still rest on the pouches down below.  It's a balancing act.  If the pack "bottoms out" first on the pouches, before settling into the straps up top, too much weight is put on the hips.  If all the weight is on the shoulder straps, and nothing taken up on the hips, then you are end for an equally miserable time.

Anyone over 6'+ is gonna like the long back.  Anyone around 6' can go either way, depending on how you rig your belt kit (low/high).  Anyone around 5'10" and below will probably like the short back.

BTW the tag should say pack, convoluted, longback/shortback.  The convoluted refers to the padding in the back.  That is/was the issue pack.

Looks like my 6'8" ass is a shoe-in then

On a more serious note, my torso isn't much longer than the average bear. My above average height is almost all in my legs. If I squat down and get hip-to-hip woth folks a foot shorter than me my head is only an inch or two taller than there's, but I'm guessing that's enough of a difference to make the long vs short backed Bergen noticeable. I also dropped my belt rig down a couple inches as I noticed the pistol and mags were riding a little too high for my liking at the match where I had a few layers on to deal with the rain and cold.

Yeah it's all to taste as the Brits say.  I prefer a low mount belt kit, pretty much hugging my hips.  So the ruck can be a tad longer and I get by.  Also, when sizing, set your belt kit up about an inch or so higher than where you want it with a full ruck resting on back.  The weight will stretch the belt kit down a bit.  

Just to say, I also spend the vast majority of my time low and slow, doing land nav through the forests, with the odd ruck run thrown in.  So with bungee around the pouches I don't have any issues with pouch bounce.  If you are a bit more dynamic, practicing raids n ambushes n so forth, you might rig differently; all depends.  

You can usually tell if you have it balanced right, there is no gap between the shoulder harness and your shoulders, and your belt kit is pushed down a bit.  If your buddy can slip his hand in between your harness and your shoulders/back, the ruck is too long, and/or your belt kit too high.  (Another common mistake is to pull in too hard on the upper stab straps, which will also create this gap.)  The shoulder strap should drape snugly across your shoulders and onto your back with no gaps.

Now with this set up, you can adjust the system on long humps, by transferring more weight to the shoulders or waist as required.  Loosening the stab straps will transfer more weight to the waist, where you tighten the waist belt.  Tightening the stab straps will transfer more weight to the shoulders, where you loosen the waist belt.  On level ground, I prefer more weight on my waist.  On uphill climbs, I prefer more weight on my shoulders.

Well, let's see what is shipped.  I'm perfectly willing to spend $$ on Hippo belt and suitable back pouches.

Let's see what comes.

ETA: Item arrived.  Ordered "Medium" from vendor linked above (with side pouches), and tag said "Longback".  For reference, distance between bottom of pack and shoulder strap attachment point is 17-1/2 inches, approx same as the Other Ranks (OR) pack.

The pack will stand some cleaning and searing of loose threads, but otherwise no unexpected issues.  No yoke supplied (none expected) for the side pouches in order to make of them a "Day" pack.  Same size side pouches (rockets) as on OR pack, so yoke should be identical.

I think you will like it.  If you run the ALICE, I would "jump rig" the waist/belly band, by folding back (behind the pad) and duct-taping it secure.   Let the frame nestle into the back pouches and cinch the belt kit up snug, instead of letting it hang loose like the LC1/2 pistol belt.  If you don't have top stab straps, then you just tighten/loosen the main shoulder straps as required to shift the load.  

Since I shot my mouth off so much, if you don't like it, I will buy it from ya.  I know several guys that would like a JJ's hippo.

I'm headed out into the Uwharrie tomorrow with one of them.

What is the opinion concerning using at least one, perhaps two of the British Military Field Pack MTP | Respirator Case as "back shelf" pouches on a Hippo belt + appropriate yoke?

I think one might work as a buttpack, if you like that concept.  Two might be a bit much.  The totally enclosed Birt sustainment pouches are a bit bigger than their US counterparts (approx 5" x  3" x 8"), meaning you can get a canteen, canteen cup, plus a few other odds n ins.  So if you are running 4 of them, with 2 canteens, you still have 2 decent-sized pouches for IFAK, cook stove and heat tabs, instant coffee, cocoa, and soup, plus a few more items.  A poncho or jacket can be carried on top of them.  

If you go with a buttpack/respirator pouch, you can still get 1 sustainment on either side of it.

Understood, just trying to make the best of what is available without absurd shipping charges.

Just get some of the $9 Osprey pouches from Colemans that have been mentioned.

Just get some of the $9 Osprey pouches from Colemans that have been mentioned.

Coleman's reports "OOS" on Brit pouches, and on the "Longback: pack mentioned above.

Raf I seem to recall you mentioned another member here who made some custom kit for you.  Is that no longer an option?  If the shipping is a factor then maybe we can get you something made on this side of the pond?  Be glad to send sustainment pouch patterns to your man (if required) to get you going.  Mine are approx 5" x 3" x 8".  Little bit bigger than our canteen pouches, with an enclosed top.  

Our marketing guy was just at shows in Germany and France.  Next time he's in the UK, gonna have him load up on kit!

Thanks for the offer!  I'll keep looking for the Large Brit Multicam pouches required for this rig.

In a related note, do you have any comments on the sizing of JayJay's hippo belt?

@Diz

Here is my spin on the kit,  Hybrid;  British 3 roll belt w/yoke.  Pouches are TT, 4 lg utility,  ammo pouches are Blackhawk.  This is unused gear from way back, Repurposed gear at the cheap.  The TT OD large utility pouch, TT OD ammo pouch let alone WC pouches are hard to find.



@Raf the TT pouches have the stiff-inter black lining similar to the Brit's pouches.  That's why I used TT pouches.

I'll need to reexamine currently owned stuff--especially the "larger' pouches that fit within this equipment exercise.

I have "tubs" of such pouches, and it may be that some of them will work as "back-shelf" pouches if the Brit "gas mask" carrier fails to perform.

What is required in order to determine how all this stuff works together is appropriate Hippo belt and yoke from JayJays.  Awaiting further info as to sizing.

No shortage on my part of mag pouches, nor "admin" pouches.  I have a 38" waist belt, but If I lose weight, perhaps smaller.  It might be tricky to fit all additional pouches of currently desired items (Rifle Mag pouches/Pistol mag pouches/Pistol holster/Field knife) onto this rig.

As a side note, I have been investigating various canteen/stove/pot rigs, mostly made of titanium.  I >>think<< I have found some titanium canteens/cups/stoves which are compatible with typical GI canteens as well as very similar canteens like the Oasis canteen and "collapsible" GI-style canteens.  Both the latter-mentioned items are currently available, but kinda scarce.  It may be possible to tote such rigs within a MOLLE Canteen/Utility Pouch.

I've yet to find any purpose-made titanium Canteen cups/Stoves that will fit well with Brit-made water bottles and aftermarket stoves made for them.  Nothing against the Brit water bottle ensemble--as a whole-- except that the plastic Brit water bottle cannot be heated over a flame.  YMMV, but that is a potential problem in cold temps.

 As an aside, I always liked a canteen/water bottle that could be instantly accessed, as against fumbling with a top-mounted cup and all that which is necessary with the Brit kit.  Might be useful as part of "Water Discipline", but I suggest a different approach. Just to repeat: Too much bother with Brit kit to access water bottle and to re-assemble the kit. YMMV.  I understand that folks believe such "Brit" kit is necessary to provide a decent "shelf" for their pack.  I believe that carefully-selected  non-Brit items might serve very well in that specific application, and such carefully selected items might be superior.   As we all know, "time marches on."  

So does equipment.

Time will tell and also experimentation on my part--as well as all our parts; will advise.   If I'm very wrong, please correct me.  @Diz

I'm certainly no Expert with regards to the "belt-mounted" kit which supports a medium sized backpack.

That said, such a rig makes a lot of sense to me--Me not being any sort of "tactical Expert" but one who has toted packs and gear into the wilderness.

@raf

Sorry you missed the pouches. They were a heck of a deal!

As to using what you have: in my observations (and they are only that, mind you), I would think that part of using a mass of smaller pouches, as opposed to fewer, larger ones, would be your ability to more tightly fill them, creating a firmer mass, making for a better shelf, as it were. If I were you, I would take possession of the belt, and would outfit it with an array of MOLLE canteen pouches, or similar, to test the concept. They may not be as deep or squared off as Brit pouches, but you could pack them pretty evenly to start to test the concept, I would think.

As to fit, the way it's ideally worn, the padded portion of the belt should terminate iliac crest to crest. I'm a 38 (pant) like you, and I think the measurements of the medium on Jay Jays was 35"? For me I think that puts it where it's supposed to go, over normal layers. Frustratingly, JayJays doesn't provide measurements of the large, but it never seems to be in stock anyway.

TYVM for kind and instructive/useful comments!  I'll need to inventory owned items that will suit the application; likely many will suit.  Unfortunately, JayJays  is not offering some Hippo belts at this time.  No worries, I am patient.

On sizing Brit hippos, you typically have to measure from hip point, to hip point, not all the way around like a US belt pad.  The Brit pads only run from hip to hip, because they wear their mag pouches way back, so they can take a knee and prone out without all that crap poking into their thighs.  So for example, my hippo belt pad is 28", even though my waist size is 34".  As you can see, the pad may wrap slightly around the hip a bit, but definitely is much shorter than a typical US padded belt.  

If you look at JJ's size guide, I am a small hippo, even though I am a medium belt size.  The small pads stop at 28" even though the belt wraps around for a 31"-34" waist.  A JJ's medium is actually too big for me, the hip pad itself is 34", and the belt is 35"-38", which would normally be considered a large.  And their large pad is 36", which covers 39"+.  So it's like you size down one.  There is plenty of extra belt to finish wrapping around you.  Think of it more as a rucksack waist belt with side wings, rather than a classic padded gun belt.

As you can see, JJ's sizes on your actual waist size, not their pad size.  Some other vendors size on their pad size, not the complete belt size.  So there can be some confusion there.  If you weren't buying from JJ's, you might have to measure from hip point to hip point instead of waist measurement.  He just does the math for you so to speak.

Kinda hate you lot. Apparently I'm a gear queer now after finding this thread. I'll post what I come up with when its all said and done. The knowledge and experience being thrown around in here is quite the spectacle, and I thoroughly enjoyed reading through all of it. Sorry I dont have anything to add, just thought I would comment on this awesome collection of info.

I can say I've got some Tyr Tactical kit on the way and I'm very excited to get out and larp with it.

Cheers

Very interesting info about the differences in belt constructions and widths. I was thinking on trying a BFG Beltminus, but they are out of stock (size small) and sounds like they arn't going to make any more. Here is a link, https://www.blueforcegear.com/beltminus-v3
I have been using the BFG Splitminus and I like the thinnest and weight compared to Cordura Molle, so am looking for a laser cut laminate. Perhaps that is too thin of a material to use on a belt, but I thought it would be worth a try when used with the Splitminus to distribute the load between both pieces.Thoughts??

About the stacked rifle mag pouch idea mentioned earlier, I found this one that I enjoy the thought of on top of a tall esstac. The only problem I can forsee would be stability or "wiggle" of a stacked setup. I like that this one is almost completely enclosed but the flap/lid folds out instead of up or in (however you want to look at it). Am I missing the point of a jungle mag pouch? I don't really live in that sort of environment anyhow, more sagebrush and rocks, evergreen forest if I go camping up in the hills.

https://zulunylongear.com/m4double.html

Well this is sorta apples n oranges now.  Most current US belt set ups are pistol support belts, with the odd rifle mag thrown in, so comparing them to a Brit hippo might be difficult.  You can load up one of these new light weight specials, but that sorta defeats the whole purpose of that initiative.  

I would pair something like that with a plate carrier for urban ops, vs a Brit belt kit and rucksack for woodland ops.  

That last mag pouch is unique, in that it tries to be the best of both worlds; enclosed for woodland, and peeled back, open top for urban.  Not that either mode might work in either area.

Brits used to make an ammo pouch with a sleeve for a fixed blade knife in the rear.

Anyone still do that?

Kinda like this?

https://www.helikon-tex.us/e-e-pouch-u-03.html

Kind of like that. More of a mag pouch with a channel for a knife/sheath. It alactially went into the main pouch.

Just a few points here.

I (NOT being an Expert) kinda favor a very low-profile set of multi-point (at least 4 point) suspenders for such a belt-oriented kit.  Such very low-profile suspenders might not be "ideal" but can be worn under body armor more comfortably than the Yokes I've seen.  Opinions from users of BOTH types of belt suspension are very much welcomed.  I'm willing to tailor gear for specific purposes, but I sure do appreciate some decent compatibility of items in case add-on items are required.

I've been looking into both GI and aftermarket stainless steel and titanium canteen ensembles.  Ideally (to my mind) a "Canteen Ensemble" should include a "Wide-Mouth metal canteen, a Plastic canteen with a gas mask compatible cap, a metal cup, and a stove capable of heating contents of both cup and metal canteen, as well as a MOLLE suitable cases.  Ideally, such canteen pouch "nested" stoves >>might<< be capable of multi-fuel use, such as fuel bars, Trangia alcohol stoves, and even twigs.  IMHO, the more fuel sources, the better.

My research is ongoing, but so far "Boundless Voyage" items seem promising as regards compatibility with USGI items.   There are vids on YouTube about a great many canteens and cooking ensembles; only a very few discuss compatibility of store-bought items with previously owned GI items.

ETA: there is some evidence that the cylindrical "Boundless Voyage" 1050 ml titanium water bottle will accept Nalgene style caps, which opens up some options since some water filters have a Nalgene-threaded collar at their output end.  It's a lot easier to have the water bottle/receptacle affixed to the bottom of the water filter/purifier and simply push down with one hand to pump than it is to use both hands to hold the filter/purifier and pump away.

Disclaimer: no financial interest.

The tactical tailor fight light yoke is very comfortable under my carrier. If you're carrying a lot of weight especially on a non rigid belt you're going to lose stability without those outrigger 2 attachment points though. It's a bit hard to describe but they keep the sides from torqueing. You can mitigate this by mounting the 4 points out a little further and adding sternum type straps to bring them together half way up but if heavy loads is your standard I'd be looking at a 6 point.

TYVM for good advice!  I sure do appreciate it!

@Diz So, you think because of the thinnest of the Beltminus-V3 that it would be too flimsy even with the 3 sections of pads, to carry, say a Poncho & liner in the back with 2 canteens+cups, 1 on each side of the poncho, with maybe a sustainment pouch & medic pouch forward of the canteen pouches. Rifle mags would be carried up on a chest rig with other gear, so the belt would just be for stuff to keep you alive in the bush (no real combat load, primarily bushwacking). There is a guy living in BC that is using this rig setup and he loves it for the dense coastal forest he's in. Your thoughts?

@Crusader I cut the bottom of a BFG Single Ten-speed open and shoved a Kukuri Kydex sheath in it and secured it. Works Great!

No canteen works as well as the Brit ones. Nalgene and a stainless cup work ok.

You have to buy the crusader metal mug for the Brit canteen. You don’t have to carry both cups on 1 canteen- invert the canteen top down in both cups - I carry one plastic on one canteen and one metal on the other.

The us molle canteen covers sit at the wrong height compared to the rest of the pouches to be a good shelf.

Yes random shit in a pouch can work- not as well as the canteen - one on each side of 1-2 utilities in the middle. Are you always going to repack the same? Never use up any of those items. Even empty the canteens work

@ Diz

Have you tried the sewn in 4 pouch JJs webbing?

To me it is imperative that the canteens make contact with the pack. I have a jj molle belt and using 3 row jj water bottle pouches - if I run 4 (12 rows molle) - they just make a bit of contact. From my experiments- I can run a 3-4 row utility in the center of two 3 row water bottle pouches for maximum contact.

Is it the same with the sewn pouches? Was not sure if they are closer together than the molle pouches ?

Thanks !!!

On pig stickers n pouches.  Several vendors still do something like that.  The last webbing set from "Marauders" I bought had loops for a bayonet and/or big fixed blade knife.  I think that's an option Dixie's Corner and others will also add to custom sewn in webbing.  

On other belt set ups.  I'm sure there's guys out there doing all sorts of things, and I'm sure they're having lots of fun with it.  It's not that far off from what I wore at the time, when modified US kit was all we could get.  It WILL work, so I'm not going to say don't use it, merely to point out that Brit kit actually works better.  If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times.  Use what's available to you.  But.  If you can modify, upgrade, optimize to something better, as time and money allow, why not.  

If you've ever worn a heavy belt kit for an extended period of time, you will discover why we started padding these damn things.  The hippo belt concept was a natural progression from all that.  It's not just the hips that you're protecting, it's also your thighs from the bottom of the pouches.  Those sharp corners are a pain in the ass (sometimes literally) when lying in ambush position, half the night, or trying to low crawl with all that crap.  And before you say man that's Diz is a such a pussy, consider what you've heard about patrolling in the bush, and how fatigue magnifies the pounds on your back.  It also magnifies the jabs from your kit, especially to sore, tired, water-soaked-for-days ass.  After a solid week (or two) in the bush, every little niggle is magnified a thousand times.  That's why I caution guys sometimes, about throwing on your kit, prancing around in the woods for an afternoon, and calling it good.  I watch all those youtube vids myself, and sometimes you have to take a lot of that stuff with a grain of salt.  

So just to say, you CAN make practically any belt set up workable, but the point I try to get across concerning the hippo is that for extended time in the bush, it's an optimal set up.  Not the only set up, but "A" set up, that just so happens to work pretty damn good.

On canteens.  US, Brit, commercial, whatever works for you.  Lots of guys are running Nalgenes these days, so lots of variation there.  I'm like Raf, in that I like a metal wide-mouth, a plastic, and at least two cups, with again at least one metal.  A fold up stove and heat tabs.  Instant coffee, cocoa, oatmeal, and soup.  On longer patrols I will have a cannister stove, fuel , and another cup in the ruck, along with the freeze-dried meals.  BTW you save a lot of weight by getting #10 cans of freeze-dried, breaking it down into 1 cup meals, putting it into those triangular-shaped baggies (just like the old Lurp rats).  Gives you a 96 hour load out for a fraction of the weight of even stripped down MRE's.

@Diz

You mentioned a metal wide mouth canteen.  Is there a modern source for one like the 58 pattern metal canteen we discussed earlier in the thread?  All is see is the modern Brit issue plastic canteens. I would love to get a couple if they are available. I love my 58 pattern canteen but if you lose the rubber sealing ring you are SOL and that thing will leak like a garden hose. I know why it is removable (so you can use it over a heat source directly) but replacement rings are not available anywhere.

I appreciate your comments based on REAL experience. I can see the advantage of having a more heavy duty belt rig that can be added to if needed in the future. I can see the shortcomings of the VelSys and BFG belts. The extra width of the Hippo is very practical giving more support fro the lower portions of the pouches (something I had not considered).

On wide mouth, metal canteens, the only ones readily available are the "Pathfinder" ones you see on-line. The older ones had shitty seals, but the newer ones seem to be OK.  If anyone else sees something new, let us know.  

On JJ's sewn in, yeah I think they are slightly higher, due to the fact that the molle belts have a separate panel that is pre-sewn and then sewn onto the main one.  But if your ruck isn't making contact, you need to lower the ruck, or raise the belt kit.  If you want, post a pic of you with it on, so I can maybe see what's going on.  It's usually the US canteens and pouches because the cap sticks up past the top of the belt.  But with Brit pouches you should be GTG.  Depends on what ruck you have and what the length of the frame is.  And if you can adjust the length of the suspension.  

On pouches, belt pads, and you.  This is something I've played with for 30+ years.  Besides getting a pad behind the pouch, if you eliminate the sharp corners at the bottom of the pouches, and replace with a curved line, this eliminates any hard points contacting your not so hard points.  I realize we haven't been getting down to this level of detail in a long time. So I don't blame anyone for not knowing much about this stuff.  We haven't been spending multiple weeks in the jungle much lately.  

Keep in mind I don't claim to know everything; just a data point of one.  This is what I have found to work.  There are many other ways of doing this stuff.  I say that because I don't want to set myself up as some guru; I'm not, just a serious student of load bearing equipment; and I don't want 10 other vets telling me I'm full of shit, and they have a better way.  If they do, I'm happy for them.  

A little late to the party but thought this was inline with the discussion:
IDF setup

It’s not that it doesn’t touch- it does. It’s just that 4 wide (with molle pouches) is too wide for the 1606 frame. The frame doesn’t really make contact with more than 1/4 of the outside 2 canteen pouches thus lessening the effectiveness of the load shelf via the canteens. I just wondered if jay jays sewn in rig had  same issue.
Cheers!