Mine supports it fine. And I have a full on buttpack.

Also, I think Diz is planning on doing the 4 sustainment pouches as an OPTION.  I doubt he intends to change the overall footprint of that size belt - ie, he doesn't intend on pushing the mag pouches farther out on the belt.




It's not supposed to be a standalone unit.  It's supposed to provide EMERGENCY support for 24-36 hours in case you get separated from your ruck.




Yes it does.  Even when I'm carrying 9 x mags on my belt.  You aren't doing it right if you are having a problem.




I have a poncho, woobie, 24 hour emergency ration, mini rifle cleaning kit, extra pair of socks, tiny thing of foot powder, and a couple random things in my buttpack.  I can probably shove a windshirt in there, but that's not the point of the buttpack.  The buttpack is something you should NOT have to touch in the field except in an emergency.  You SHOULD be living out of your ruck.  Like you said, sleeping under a poncho sucks.  I keep a tarp in my ruck.  

I can also throw a poncho roll / bum roll on it (right now I have a USGI molle 2 buttpack I'm using for that) and add a full days ration + whatever else I need - shelter kit, windshirt, whatever. Keep it on my pack and transfer it from my pack to on top of my buttpack if I want to drop my ruck and go off and do something.




This.  I did a post in this thread back pages ago where I went and measured and pictured the height of various water bottles / canteens.  The 1 Quart Nalgene bottles or the stainless versions of them are the way to go.  They are roughly the same height as the british canteen and are far easier to maintain in the field (wide round opening) than the various canteens.  

Well guys not to worry; we have 1K of Diz rigs coming and I mean real soon.  So when and if we do a 4 pouch model, there will always be plenty of 3-pouch models.  

Right now it's a question of when & what cammo is available for doing additional runs.  Talking about MC, M-81, and Tiger.  That's the only limiting factor.

CF3's right behind them.  

Mansdorf let me know whatever you need to get surplus kits out to the peeps.  

CAP6888 can't wait to see yer NI-CAP ruck.

*coughcough* Rhodie Brushstroke and I might actually buy one

Heck, I'll buy a roll of fabric from crossfire too if they do a run.





About $5k?  lol.  I need at least $3k to make an order.  The more I order, the cheaper it gets re: shipping, which is like half the cost at $3k.

I'm going to be cleaning out my stockpile of surplus stuff I have on hand to raise money.  I'll still need to make some stuff to sell to make the rest.  Maybe do a run of molle buttpacks to sell?  I have a good design already prototyped out.  I'm still slow at sewing though.

Me too!

All the material is ordered and will start arriving this week. Of course Rockywoods won’t get here until next week. Will be slow going, a couple hours a day here and there.  Thinking about making a list of how to attack it one day at a time (cut materials, back panel, side panels, etc.) Hoping that will keep me focused and not stray off course.

Absolutely agree. I run the Nalgenes in my belt kit and Crossfire ruck. Tried the canteens but they swelled out the utility pouches too much for my liking and the crusader cups were a pain to get out. That, and the bottles always smell like an old tire no matter what I wash them with. I like the Nalgene Usgi canteens for my Hill People Gear stuff but they’re a no-go on belt kit for a ruck shelf.

Admin just released his initial video w/ the DZ rig on his secondary channel. He's wearing it completely incorrectly and it shows in his comments.

That man has never worn an LBE. Still hasn't. I wonder why he's wearing it so high?

He doesn't understand that it's a LBE that is designed to be worn down on the hips.  He is thinking of it like a chest rig meets an FLC or something.

Alot of these younger guys have grown up seeing nothing but body armor and chest rigs on troops.  

Here he is wearing a set of ALICE gear.

https://youtu.be/L3KgRUW11IE

Yeah, I picked up my Thinsulate poncho liner from US Cav many moons ago. I should do a comparison as the new OEM poncho liner (made by Pinnacle Mercantile) now uses Climashield insulation, which is actually an upgrade to Thinsulate that was used over 20 years ago. Neither compares to Kifaru, HPG, or Wilderness Innovations, but they both compress quite small. I would put the Swagman Roll in the same category as the new Climashield poncho liner, but more functionality (I think Helikcon-Tex uses Apex insulation).

ROCK6

I didn't realize how out of touch I was w/ regard to poncho liners.  The USGI ones you mentioned by Pinnacle Mercantile are on Amazon for $100-115 (depending of if you want a zipper or not) while the nicer ones from Kifaru, HPG, or Group 1 are all $200-280.  Very surprised by the pricing. Hard for me to just if the nicer ones but the PM one seems like something I might get in the future.

Wiggy's
 makes a variety of ponchos and poncho liners/woobies.

You forgot Wild Things.

My wife is a quilter.  I swear I'm gonna have her make a run of custom woobies one day.

I think General Jackson's still has them at 35 bucks.

When I was a teen flipping through US Cav and BQM, I always wanted a thinsulate woobie (for $50 if I remember). Now for $100 not sure if I want to spend that.

Also HPG Serape and Kifaru Woobie.

Are those Gen Jax ones legit?  or are they the made in bangladesh ones that seem to be all over at that price?

I wore LBE for a long time, I wore it real high to clear the ruck and not have pouches digging into my thighs.  At that time I didn't run a butt pack. When your skinny and have to have certain stuff, not having pouches forward of the hips isn't an option. Space was at such a premium that I found an old alice web belt with the brass buckle rather than the newer plastic buckle because it took up less space.

I've got all Snugpak stuff - Jungle Blankets in both sizes, Jungle Bag, and a UK built Merlin.

I remember going into US Cavalry a lot when they took over the AARCO store on Victory Dr, Ft Benning, in the 80's. We used to drive up to Atlanta to go to Brigade Quartermasters too. I still have a VHS tape about Mitch Werbell and BQM, that I got there.

Diz: Multicam Arid please - stuff gets brown in the fall around here....and even in the summer, the woods floor is brown. I've got MCA stuff out the wazoo

As far as the woobies, I really like the Helikon-Tex Swagman Roll under a regular mil-spec poncho, but only once I have hiked to where I want to end up and am static and making my coffee, meal, and practicing my tarp set-ups, improvised traps, etc.

While on the move, I get too warm with it on. In the winter and cold Autumn/Spring days, I wear the old set of lightly insulated Gortex duty boots I wore on the job before I retired.
Merino wool socks, long underwear and top under regular weight BDU's. I usually always have the poncho on unless it's hot summer afternoon just because it covers the gear, pistol, and 14.5 inch barreled AR10 tight to my chest on a 2 point Vickers sling that I ALWAYS have when I'm in "the bush".
I have not spent the night sleeping under a pine tree in any of it because, frankly, even though I am still lean and very muscular and work out heavy regularly, I am 63 years old and too old for that sleeping outside shit unless forced to. So I can not attest to how well it works doing that.

Back to the DZ rig. As far as the utility of other type/more/different pouches are concerned, I can use those 4 ammo pouches for any other accessories I want to take. IFACK Binoculars, snivel gear, whatever. IF I don't want or feel the need to carry a ruck.

This is my plan whether I am doing the real things that I do now, which is getting outside in the woods and mountains around my house and practicing my skill and enjoying what I believe to be the closest thing to Heaven on this Earth.

IF I am thrust into the SHTF scenarios being discussed, I will still use the same techniques for the infinite different applications that would arise in such a situation. From years of doing this shit I have accumulated a lot of experience with all kinds of different equipment dating all the way back to hand me down WW2 and Korea stuff from family members that served.
The equipment I was initially issued and have always used has served me well, such as LBE, LBV, and ALICE with those old pistol belts have become uncomfortable the last few years and dig into places that I never noticed before, even with pads added, which are makeshift solutions at best. And, trying to adjust those pistol belts with any pouches attached is frustrating to say the least.

If I feel the need for more ammo, which I carry anyway to be used to packing weight, I will (hopefully soon) wear the DZ rig with the pouches filled as needed, and the pictured "Rhodesian" chest rig which holds five 25 round P-mags, so 150 rounds of 7.62 NATO on my normal walkabouts. If I need more stuff/food/ammo/ comms, then I will adapt accordingly with rucks, different items in different pouches, etc.

The DZ just looks right to me, and checks all the boxes that I feel were needed in my kit. The heaps of stuff I already have will be barter material or, as discussed by others, given to the un or under equipped.
Attached File

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I'm quite fond of the HPG Serape.  If I had to be serious about stuff, that Serape is probably going in instead of the thinsulate poncho liner.

Yea, poncho liners have gotten expensive.  

Some of the nicer poncho liners (HPG for instance) have other functionalities that make them worth the price.

Wiggy's!  I actually like Wiggy's stuff for what it is.  I run a Wiggy's overbag as a summer bag that goes over my Western Mountaineering winter bag.  

However, Wiggy's poncho liners ABSOLUTELY will not pack down small, lol.  But they will probably outlast whoever buys them.

I've been thinking about fabbing up some DIY woobies for my own gear stash.  I have a dozen yards of thin ripstop nylon sitting here I keep eyeing to use for that.

Maybe a candidate to be "encapsulated" within a GI "Waist Pack" which has MOLLE mounting capability.  Suggest common and cheap USGI MOLLE Waist Packs as ertsatz Brit "Bum Roll" items.

Yeah man I think woobies would be a hot seller.  If you could bang something out at 75-100 bucks, I think peeps would buy them.  

I've been lied to before, but, the Diz rigs are SUPPOSED to be here tonight.  If they look good, will be put into inventory tonight.  I will personally be sewing down each drag handle before it goes out, so you all know what I'll be doing this weekend.  

I think 100 have been air-shipped on this first push.  So about a dozen per size, per color.

I, personally would have preordered and prepaid if offered the opportunity.
I’m hoping that they can be obtained without having to wait a year for production to meet demand.
Win/ Win. I’d have known it was coming, and CF would’ve had more capital to increase production.

I dunno man.  Wiggy's stuff doesn't pack down well at all.  His stuff is notorious for being bulky.

I don't have one of his poncho liners, so I couldn't try.

I don’t know about the wiggys either, but a USGI woodland woobie barely fits in a Molle 2 waist bag.  It fits better if I put it in a small cylindrical stuff sack that I have first.

You had the alice belt riding above the rucks hip pad? Where was your buttpack? Were you a civilian or in the mil? I was 5'8", 154lbs and I could fit 4 3x30mag , 2 canteens, and a buttpack. Either way, this guy isn't wearing it that way because he "knows" the gear from experience, as you may have been. Every one of his complaints on the rig are because he's wearing it incorrectly.

"Every one of his complaints on the rig are because he's wearing it incorrectly."

I concur, and this will always happen when reviewers/testers are not provided with some sort of decent info on how the gear is intended to be worn/used.

Perhaps some gear reviewers are motivated to deliberately misuse the gear.  Maybe favoring "sponsored" gear from another mfr.

Perhaps some gear reviewers are actually honest.

Takes some digging and evaluation to tell the truth.

Not sure many folks are up to that standard nowadays.

Buck up Raf, there's still some people on the internet who want to learn, as opposed to just wanting to be right.

Mil
5'9' sub 150
from the right front going around
small pouch with compass
mag pouch
knife (duh it was the early 90s)
canteen
canteen
mag pouch
small pouch with 2 field dressings
that was an early set up


his says many times that he is not a SME.  Hes funny but I dont see him telling you how to run your stuff.  I also not really stressing over a video thats mainly about a rifle I will never own

I'm not sure what you're saying here. What's an SME? Who implied he was telling anyone how to run his gear? Who is stressing?

Having an exhaustive discussion is how intelligent people process information and learn. There's no stress involved whatsoever.

PSA the Diz Rig is available on Crossfire’s website, just placed an order for one in Woodland. Pretty excited to try it out with a pack.

The admin results guy and the video several posts above mine that started the discussion about the cons of running an LBE high.

Admin Results states numerous times that he is not a Subject Matter Expert.

Having an exhaustive discussion is a start, sometimes, then you have to put it into action.

Hell yea! Thanks for the heads up. I got an order in for a L/XL M81 w/ a Cobra as well. $378 shipped for all of it.

Got a set in MC on order, just hoping it’ll be delivered around the end of next week when I’ll be home, lol.

Large in Desert Tiger is already Out Of Stock

That makes me sad. (random DTS pic)

M81 and green OOS as well.  

ETA:  in large

Wow.  Those went fast. Glad I didn't wait on the M81. Wonder what the mix of colors was in the initial 1000 CF brought in?

ETA: just checked, looks like just those colors in L/XL is OOS.  Everything in M/L is still in stock.

Oh wow hey thanks guys.  This is just an initial air-shipment of 128 out of 1,000.  I think we are getting another 100-ish air-shipped most skosh.  Then we gotta wait for the boat with the rest.  

I will be sewing like two mother-fuckers all weekend to get the drag handles tacked down.  The next run will have the box-x's moved up 1 1/2" so it's all ready to rock.  

Want to they are pretty much evenly split between the M/L and the L/XL.  And maybe slightly weighted with more MC and RG, then with M-81, and the Tigers.  

I could talk about pre-orders with marketing guru if you guys want.  We just didn't want to string you guys out if there were any delays.  I will get an update on both air and sea shipments and let you know.  At least get your place in line if they're going quick.

Again, thanks a lot for your support here.  It means the world to me.

People like buttpacks and want to fit a day worth of items inside a belt kit, possibile without pack. I have used the three pouch Airborne webbing and....well it does have less capacity.
Also people May like ammo.pouches closer to their front, so they go.with large.
It Is negligible, but large Will fit more people than the medium.

I figured it was to accommodate middle-aged beer bellies.

Yep. Wish I had the time like some to sit in front of a computer non stop.

@Diz
Appreciate the preorder consideration but I have an XL in MC on the way now.👍

Surprisingly, they were not the first to sellout.

How dare you speak such a correct statement.

I ordered mine through my phone right after I saw the first post of them being available while waiting on a table at dinner. Took all of 2 min.

That makes even more sense that my assumptions.

I'm glad you got one.

I'd rather not sit in front of the computer non stop, but it's how I support my family.  If I could make this kind of money raising cattle and pigs you would only see me here a few times a week.

As it is, this lets me afford to play farmer on the weekend and still feed my family.  Jumping over to arfcom gives my brain a break.

These were already posted at the beginning of this discussion, but for comparison an average 3 pouch utility belt kit vs. a 4 utility one to show how tiny the 3-pouch is (and it has extra padding to accomodate the FFD pouch that nowadays is usually mounted on the side of a ammo pouch, so it could be even smaller).
Metric tape in the middle, both are Dragon Supplies rigs


The more i look at it the more i understand the DiZ rig having more appeal in its larger size