Yep, that was one of the solutions discussed earlier, and very field-repairable, too! I've also recently become aware of gated D-rings.

I tried that as a proof of concept: you can roll the loaded dz rig to about the size of a large Battle bag or a range bag and figure a way keep It cinched down with elastic cord or a couple carabiners, leaving part of the harness area outside to serve as an impromptu shoulder straps. Depending on your vehicle and padsengers you could fit behind your feet or under the passenger Seat cinched to It with elastic cord. If you Need to egress you could grab It and wear like a shoulder bag until there Is a lull in the action and wear It. We had similar grab bags that became chest rigs (sucking at both ).
It's a very niche application (why One should prefer a belt kit over a pack or a bag in a run from your vehicle situation ?) but it's doable.

Jeff Gurwich video on bailout bags Is a very valid inspiration should you like this concept. I improved mine After watching It.

Yeah, I get distracted and miss shit.

I was just agreeing. It was way earlier, so repeat freely.

This only works if the pouch has 3 columns of attachment.

I have been working on getting a hot drink kit inside one DZ rig canteen pouch for a couple weeks. I am getting close to something, but need to test it further in the cold.

Time to boil 5 minutes. Fuel for three burns available. I already carry the tent pegs for shelter and antennas.

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America has been starved of decent belt kit for quite awhile now.  We are trying to catch up.






It's super super easy, let me know and I can post some pics.  





Either will integrate with a pack as long as the buttpack / utility pouches are all the same height across the back.

You are thinking of the american habit of running the buttpack a couple inches higher than everything else.  I drop it down flat.

There ARE pros and cons to the buttpack / utility pouches.  Utility pouches are slightly more stable / less bulky in tight quarters / less bulk in general while 'assaulting the target' or whatever.  Buttpacks allow you to carry quite a bit more sustainment gear on your combat load - specifically I can stuff a poncho AND a poncho liner in mine.  It's not that HEAVY, mostly bulky because of the poncho liner.  Either works.  I don't look down my nose at the British types, I have a few sets set up like that too.  I live in the mountains and don't feel like getting cut off from a poncho and poncho liner should I have to drop my pack - even in the summer the temps can drop quite a bit around here on the off night.  





Definitely get at least a 6 point harness.  Like I said, a stock PLCE one is great to 'test the system'.  

The Sord one is actually a great harness except for 1 GLARING problem.  The whole thing is solid un-breathable cordura.  There is zero breathablity, especially across the entire back.  If the SORD harness had a vented back, I wouldn't have started sewing my own kit, I just would have kept the SORD harness I had bought.  (well, I technically still have it.  I don't use it.)  I wouldn't get the SORD harness unless the ONLY thing you are going to be doing is wearing a full set of belt kit OVER a slick set of armor.  Then it's probably super awesome.




I don't have a shop up yet.  I am working on that part of it - I have all my extra cash tied up in equipment and materials, and am almost done working on a run of 8 full sets of belt kit.  I'll be selling them, and part of that money will be going to doing a webpage.  Currently I have a very poor instagram and facebook presence.  I'm kinda waiting on my next run of stuff to be finished so that I can take some good, detailed pictures of the kit to post before really ramping the marketing up.  My meager online presence is on here and the links in linktree below basically.  I'll be posting a bunch of pictures of finished stuff here soonish, and you're welcome to message me and ask me stuff, but this thread is kinda a default 'belt kit info' thread.  Besides a TON of useful info throughout this thing, you are definitely welcome to ask questions and join in the autism around anything belt kit related here.  There are a few other belt kit related threads in the tactical gear forum, mostly revolving around  'support gear' and such.  And the Crossfire packs threads are kinda belt-kit related, as they mate really well with belt kits.  

https://linktr.ee/beltkitguy

As a teaser, here's a batch of water bottle pouches I finished last night for this run of belt kits I'm doing.  They still need to be cleaned up and loose threads removed.  

Nice.  I'm going to be re-doing my entire loadout as soon as I get my next set of belt kit done, and this is one of my goals, fine-tuning an actual brew kit, not just throwing in some stuff in a ziplock and stashing it somewhere.

Good looking kit.  Hurry up and set up a shop so you can do OEM for Crossfire here.

Whenever Crossfire wants to get started, I can have a shop set up in 3 months and start training people.  I've already got an outline of a plan in place that I've been working on to expand quickly.  I've also started putting feelers out for labor.  I have one person I already have working with me on a limited basis that I can bring on full time.  There's enough labor with basic sewing experience up here I can man a small shop pretty quickly then start training more.

Yes! More dispersed US manufacture!

I'm such a sucker for M81....

I actually have a plan that Diz got me thinking about to disperse it even more.  I'll be dabbling with the idea once I get a core shop up and running smoothly.

Why?

If you can sew, you can make some woodland abominations, like British woodland tops with US M81 pockets on the sleeves, lol

I should have used black velcro…….

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I mean, technically it would work.  But attaching the D-ring directly to the pouch, makes the pouch the load-bearing part of the system, instead of the belt.  Off-setting it to one side of the pouch on a 2-column pouch would throw the weight balance of the pouch off, with the suspenders pulling up on just one side of the pouch.

Maybe I'm overthinking this.

Yes.  This is the way.

(Or OD velcro)

That's pretty wild lol. I like it.

I think the velcro looks fine, or OD next time.

I'd smash a "like" button hard if there was one to smash

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You’re not. Putting the load into an angular position on the back or front half of two MOLLE pouches on each side would be terrible. You’d eventually rip the pouches apart due to a single piece of MOLLE strap carrying the load at an angle they’re not designed for.

That was part of my thought, plus the irregular beat of the pouch flopping around, torqued from the pull upwards on one side of the pouch vs. the other side.

I GUESS you could put a D-ring on both ends of the pouch, and run paracord or some webbing between the two, then attach the strap from the harness to that.  I did something similar back in the day with my ALICE gear to spread the load out on the belt instead of the harness attaching to one specific spot.

That's what I was going to suggest - the old ALICE paired mag pouch trick.

I suppose you could paracord loop only and just skip the D rings altogether, if necessary. Maybe it's even preferable within this context of retrofitting.

So, honestly between LBE and Chest rigs does anyone need an assault pack really?

The question demands context. However, everyone should have a small, medium and large pack/ruck. So the answer is yes, regardless of context. I view these as patrol pack, summer ruck and winter ruck. Your terms, needs and milage may vary.

As mentioned above, depends on context/intended use.  I think it wise to adopt/arrange belt kit so that some sort of suitable pack can be added as circumstances require.

All depends on the situation.  If you are going to be out overnight in the, you are going to want at least an assault pack with more shelter and sleep stuff.  Same if you need more water than just 2 quarts.  

This gets even more convoluted when you factor in the idea of a 'bum roll' or 'poncho roll' on top of the belt kit.  

I'm TRYING to stick to one single ruck (for both summer and winter) and an assault pack.  I might end up having to bump up to a full winter pack, downgrade my ruck to a patrol pack, and the assault pack in conjunction with both the above.

Lots of factors.  I would say though that you can carry more sustainment gear on LBE than a chest rig. You can easily last 24 hours with LBE in the summer. As fall closes in, as long as you have someway of having a poncho and woobie on your LBE (buttpack, bum roll, molle waist pack), you can survive depending on your environment.  Typically, most chest rigs won’t allow you to do this and will require a pack for any sort of sustainment.  That being aid, because you can carry some sustainment gear in LBE, your pack can be relatively smaller. In warmer months, I can wear my PLCE  and 22L LBT pack and last 72 hours. If you have a chest rig, you would need a larger pack to carry sustainment gear for 72 hours.

Nobody can decide It for you.
A good British rule of thumb Is that beside carrying a larger combat load the subsistence item carried are to be used...i wouldn't say only for survival or Emergencies but for contingencies or if the amount of items are carried in Just enough quantity the ones in the belt are to be used last while they are to be drawn from the pack first.

To me having a small simple pack May be Better than trying to overload your combat vest.
Again, if you are like SOG John St.Martin and you can go for a three days patrol like he did and it's good for you to sleep leaning on a tree you don't Need a pack.

Have you seen some of the loadouts those SOG and LRRP dudes would carry?  Count their rifles magazines by how many DOZEN they have?  A dozen grenades?  Half dozen smokes?  10-12 quarts of water?  Plus demo, support weapon ammo, etc.

What we see here is a mixing of WW II gear with "later-issued" items.  Most of which are "unlikely" to be suitable for "belt-carried" kit as discussed in this thread.  Time marches on and gear also improves over time.

They had a little hack to avoid carrying sleeping gear. Amphetamines.

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And after patrolling all day in the jungle you don't really want to crawl into a sleeping bag. Maybe strap a poncho over head so you  won't get rained on. But you won't dry out and you'll get wet the next day anyways

I think i missed my point.

I am aware of heavy SOG loadouts and sadly i am aware of the use of stimulants, even well into GWOT. Lots of ephedrine.
That said my point is that Mr. St.Martin. in this picture has a lot of combat items. i see a Bar Belt plus a canteen full of mini grenades so around 360 rounds, 3 smokes and 5 large hand grenades, a strip of detonation charge worn crossbody, a claymore mine in the front pocket of the modified claymore bag. two pouches have antenna/radio gear (i recognize the at984 fishing reel antenna, not the other). Hanging from the belt there are 1 jungle first aid kit and 3 m1942 bandage pouches (contents unknown), same for the two first aid kit pouches on the suspenders. also extraction harness taped to the belt.

On the other hand he has a just few subsistence items. I see one water canteen on his hip (no doubt he had way to purify more), the rest is in the other half of the claymore bag worn as a pack (maybe the shape inside is of a indigenous ration). There is a poncho wrapped with i think a GP strap and tied to the suspenders.

I show this because it is well documented, but it's a choice he made of carrying no pack at all for a short duration mission. According to the book "Running Recon" by Frank Greco at pg.100 "One Zero John st.Martin displayting the way he organized and carried his equipment without the use of a rucksack..."

Pic with same loadout is shown on page 67 prior to embarking for a mission from Dak To launch site. His colleague Ed Wolcoff is shown with a similar rucksack-less web gear. That same mission ended with an emergency extraction after 3 days, so they survived atleast 3 days with just those items.

I have already said it, but lot of the packing light concept is having the phisical and mental strength to bear with discomfort, which is something you can't buy.
If you think it is all due to amphetamines that is an opinion i wouldn't agree with.

I think the amphetamines was more just to address the need to not sleep in context here.  Obviously frowned upon, but war is hell.  In today’s world of Larping, bushcrafting, or whatever you want to call it, we “need” some degree of comfort.  The trick is to temper the weight to comfort ratio.  As you said, knowledge and physical/mental ability are the true deciding factors.

While we are on the top of specifying gear worn, it is also important to point out concepts for people who have not patrolled in teams.

Cross loading gear.

Not everyone in a team has to carry every type of item needed. Even sleep systems can be carried by one person, and shared with another, as you are going to be holding security of at least 50% on long halts.

It might also be pertinent to have a bag large enough so it has a good amount of extra room. If someone gets hurt, that persons gear might need to be spread out to others, or you might run across items in the field you need to carry out.

*side note; I was recently hiking in an area with nice black walnut trees and quite a few smaller diameter ones had been cut down by a fence line and left on the ground. Well……. I like turning wood on a wood lathe and I have cargo straps for my ruck sack…….. so I am carrying that weight.

The C-Rats we were issued in the ’70’s had 4 inch round chocolate discs in them.
They were kinda like Nestle Crunches but like a 1/4 inch thick and harder with dark chocolate added.
A young fighting man could go several days with 5 or 6 of those stashed on him.

Good add-on.

And yea, I was just making a side comment about the size load these guys rocked.  Funny how you see loadouts of guys with 3 or 4 magazines total these days.  Again.  Random side comment.

EDIT:  The Germans quickly learned that the meth only worked to extend capability without sleep a day or two.  After two days without sleep, they had a seriously degraded performance, 3 days and they started hallucinating, longer and it caused enough problems that they decided to stop issuing it except to certain pilots on long-range patrols for emergencies.

And you should really look up the story of the Finnish soldier who accidentally took enough meth for his entire squad while out on a ski patrol.  It's hilarious.

I'm not shooting this idea down, it's a valid one.  People should take note.

However, coming from the viewpoint of a civilian, if I'm ever having to 'cross load a combat load with a team', then this country has gone sideways one way or the other.  Coming from THAT viewpoint, that gear might be the only gear I ever get, and it might not have a place to safely leave it behind to crossload.  It's a completely different ballgame when you don't have the full support of a national military to give you support.  Just throwing that out there as additional thought to chew on.  Especially since the ramifications are huge - for instance, be careful what gear you get and intend to use, and how you intend to use it.

Valusteleka carries little tins of German Scho-Ka-Kola chocolate.  Infused with caffeine and coffee beans.  The same stuff the German military issued during WW2.  You are right about a few tins of those keeping you going.  I may or may not have a couple cases stashed away.  

(If you order it by the case of 10 tins, it's cheaper than buying a decent chocolate bar at the store here.  And it's actually really good chocolate too.  I have to hide it, my mother steals them if she sees them when she's here.)

They look bulkier, but still interesting.

Varusteleka has gotten a LOT of my coin this year already, though. LOL

I've been buying SARMA Recon Smocks and other British type smocks like a crack addict.

Those huge pockets everywhere are the shit!!

I approve this message.  

Dammit! I forgot to add that stuff to my last order!

I deal with meth addicts everyday. No thank you. Popping a couple Adderall for a couple days to accomplish the mission is one thing but I'm not touching meth.

I know you're not saying anyone should either.

I wasn't suggesting stimulants or, er, "Better patrolling through chemistry".

They didn't do a great deal of sleeping on LRRP teams or MAC/v. We didn't do much doing LRS either. I usually had one of my LBV double mag pouches filled with chocolate covered coffee beans.

Regardless, they still made us carry all the sleeping kit. Safety first.

I'd like to see St Martin there in modern gear. His choice would be fascinating.

@marnsdorff

*Tyrone biggums voice* You have any of that mossy oak fabric….

Does the British MTP Smock have the ability to accept a zip in liner like the old USGI M65 field jackets?

Does the British MTP Smock have the ability to accept a zip in liner like the old USGI M65 field jackets?

Mmmmyyyyyyyyy man....man of culture and sophistication....