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Posted: 8/19/2024 9:15:56 AM EDT
[#1]
The man himself; that's pretty funny; I'm just another dickhead with a sewing machine.
Ok, yeah, I think we got that one; pretty easy to un-do or whatever. For some reason the Brits prefer to have separate yoke harnesses, so they prefer loops or d-rings at the base of their belt pads. Some say this also gets the hardware out of the way. Dunno about that. Some times I'm tempted to direct-sew web straps to the base pad; that way the hardware goes up on the yoke, and makes adjusting (down) on the fly easier. At least on the front straps. On velcro, check out the prototype rig that Hawkeye posted pics of. It's the first thing he added. I would THINK you could walk your machine through by hand and get it done. If not, yeah, a big needle and some dental floss will do the trick. I've also had good luck with Barge cement holding velcro to cordura. Just coat both sides well, let dry, then coat again. Let that "tack up" then press together and set a can of ammo on it over-night. The pressure is the key. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/19/2024 11:55:29 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Diz: The man himself; that's pretty funny; I'm just another dickhead with a sewing machine. Ok, yeah, I think we got that one; pretty easy to un-do or whatever. For some reason the Brits prefer to have separate yoke harnesses, so they prefer loops or d-rings at the base of their belt pads. Some say this also gets the hardware out of the way. Dunno about that. Some times I'm tempted to direct-sew web straps to the base pad; that way the hardware goes up on the yoke, and makes adjusting (down) on the fly easier. At least on the front straps. On velcro, check out the prototype rig that Hawkeye posted pics of. It's the first thing he added. I would THINK you could walk your machine through by hand and get it done. If not, yeah, a big needle and some dental floss will do the trick. I've also had good luck with Barge cement holding velcro to cordura. Just coat both sides well, let dry, then coat again. Let that "tack up" then press together and set a can of ammo on it over-night. The pressure is the key. My old domestic would do that. You are right, you might need to help it along by hand, but it wouldn't have a problem overall. I would TRY the sewing machine at least. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 8/19/2024 9:31:36 PM EDT
[#3]
What’s the ideal pack you have all found you can pair with belt kit?
I scored a used Malice Pack and it looks to be the bleeding edge of what can still pair with belt kit. The Alice frame still sits above my buttpack and it goes wide not tall in length. I’m sure crossfire will be a popular answer here |
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Posted: 8/19/2024 9:55:30 PM EDT
[#4]
Pretty much everyone I know has a Crossfire Cf2, Cf3 or MkVII.
I still use an old Eberlestock built on an Alice frame for three seasons, and a large Alice in Winter, but will get a Crossfire when I have more money sat aside for fancy gear. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/19/2024 10:19:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: marnsdorff]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ct78: What’s the ideal pack you have all found you can pair with belt kit? I scored a used Malice Pack and it looks to be the bleeding edge of what can still pair with belt kit. The Alice frame still sits above my buttpack and it goes wide not tall in length. I’m sure crossfire will be a popular answer here Crossfire is kinda the go-to pack now. TBH, it's not so much the pack itself, it's the frame and suspension that makes them so good. (I'm not dissing on the pack itself either, they are really nice. I'm just saying that the best thing about them is the frame and suspension) As for the Malice pack, there ain't nothing wrong with the MALICE pack (or Large Alice in general). The ALICE system (the MALICE is basically a modded out Large ALICE) usually works well with belt kit. The Crossfire stuff is very similar in alot of ways to the ALICE system, but a very upgraded, modernized version. If you can get the MALICE suspension dialed in to work for you, then the MALICE will do what you want it to do. But this is the key here - it doesn't work for everyone, as there isn't much adjustment in the system. You are REALLY going to want to get a better set of shoulder straps for that. That would be the first thing I'd upgrade. Then the belt, then the frame. And the frame, mostly because the stock ALICE frames eventually fail. If you are going to run the MALICE pack, there are a bunch of little tips and tricks you can do to fix various little issues. It's worth researching this stuff. These little things end up helping alot. (I run a Crossfire DG3, the older version of the CF3. I started out as a teenager with medium ALICE, had a Blackhawk version of the MALICE pack for years after that, before getting into commercial packs for backpacking. For reference.) |
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Posted: 8/20/2024 10:33:36 AM EDT
[#6]
But again, most anything will do, if you will do. Spent a lot of time under an ALICE pack, with modified GI belt kits. The key is getting your belt pouches down low, so the ruck frame will fit on top of it better, as in the canteen caps not protruding up and banging into the frame. If the ALICE frame (or any other for that matter) is sitting on your canteen caps, it's like someone with two thumbs, pressing down on your belt kit. Instead of the load being spread over the entire belt area. This also makes you rig the belt kit lower so your shoulder straps are in proper position.
So although I use CF packs quite a bit, nothing "wrong" with other systems, as long as you have a good PLCE-style belt kit to go with it. But yeah, std mods are highly recommended, such as a decent shoulder harness and pads. |
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Posted: 8/20/2024 3:38:24 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ct78: What’s the ideal pack you have all found you can pair with belt kit? I scored a used Malice Pack and it looks to be the bleeding edge of what can still pair with belt kit. The Alice frame still sits above my buttpack and it goes wide not tall in length. I’m sure crossfire will be a popular answer here If you can swing a frameless pack, I highly recommend the Savotta Jääkäri S pack. I have two. With belt kit, I can be out for three days in non-wintry weather. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/20/2024 3:44:46 PM EDT
[#8]
For those who are interested in and have been following my sewing progress and projects, I am moving the posts over to this thread. I probably should have done this a long time ago and left this to be dedicated to belt kit stuff.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/DIY-Tactical-Gear-Sewing-Thread/10-553400 |
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Posted: 8/20/2024 4:31:14 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lew: If you can swing a frameless pack, I highly recommend the Savotta Jääkäri S pack. I have two. With belt kit, I can be out for three days in non-wintry weather. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lew: Originally Posted By ct78: What’s the ideal pack you have all found you can pair with belt kit? I scored a used Malice Pack and it looks to be the bleeding edge of what can still pair with belt kit. The Alice frame still sits above my buttpack and it goes wide not tall in length. I’m sure crossfire will be a popular answer here If you can swing a frameless pack, I highly recommend the Savotta Jääkäri S pack. I have two. With belt kit, I can be out for three days in non-wintry weather. I looked really hard at that for a simple, no frills pack. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/20/2024 4:52:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: marnsdorff]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lew: If you can swing a frameless pack, I highly recommend the Savotta Jääkäri S pack. I have two. With belt kit, I can be out for three days in non-wintry weather. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lew: If you can swing a frameless pack, I highly recommend the Savotta Jääkäri S pack. I have two. With belt kit, I can be out for three days in non-wintry weather. Originally Posted By King_Mud: I looked really hard at that for a simple, no frills pack. I have heard good things about those too. If you want a barebones BUDGET pack that works well with beltkit, but that is actually pretty good, the British surplus 'NI' or 'Northern Ireland' or '30L' Patrol packs are actually pretty decent. You can usually find one on ebay and such for $60-70 shipped. The Savotta pack mentioned above reminded me of them, as the Patrol Packs are similar in size to the Savotta pack, but with 2 x side utility pouches and a smaller zipper pocket on the lid. They also come in DPM camo (and sometimes MTP and other colors) which works well with Woodland gear if you are into that. Edit: These guys are selling them for $60. https://swisslink.com/48807-retail.html?cgid=retail-new-arrivals 
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Posted: 8/20/2024 11:50:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WillieTangoFox]
[#11]
I am trying to save money right now, if we could stop posting links to delicious euro surplus bags.
 Here is my old Eberlestock, dont even know the model name. Its on an Alice, and the harness adjusts to a high back. Kind of hard to see whats happening, as its already loaded/staged for this weekend with stuffs.  Attached File Attached File |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/21/2024 12:00:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: marnsdorff]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WillieTangoFox: I am trying to save money right now, if we could stop posting links to delicious euro surplus bags. Here is my old Eberlestock, dont even know the model name. Its on an Alice, and the harness adjusts to a high back. Kind of hard to see whats happening, as its already loaded/staged for this weekend with stuffs. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/123862/IMG_0255_jpeg-3300144.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/123862/IMG_0253_jpeg-3300145.JPG For $60, those little packs are hard to beat. I'm tempted to take mine apart to pattern so I can start making some. But I already have a ton of projects on my hands - besides the stuff I'm doing for people, I've got the modernized medium ALICE project and the 'start making British style smocks here in the USA' project going. I'm going to have to do the British pack project at some point in the future though. And that little Eberlestock looks like it'll get the job done with belt kit. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 8/21/2024 12:01:58 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lew: If you can swing a frameless pack, I highly recommend the Savotta Jääkäri S pack. I have two. With belt kit, I can be out for three days in non-wintry weather. I'll second that, it's still my go-to pack for edc or larping around in my belt kit or chest rig. It's amazing how much shit I can stuff in it or hang off it. Some cry about the shoulder straps...and there are times I might slap on some pads and/or a sternum strap if I have it loaded heavy, but for the most part I don't use them for edc. I use one of their sit pads as a frame sheet...multi-purpose gear is good. I still prefer my big-assed filbe or my medium molle ruck for heavier, multi-day loadouts, but I have to admit that every time I look at a Crossfire or one of the larger Savottas, I have to fight the urge to spend money like a trophy wife. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 8/21/2024 12:04:28 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By King_Mud: I looked really hard at that for a simple, no frills pack. You might also look at the Jääkäri M and the Kahakkas |
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Posted: 8/21/2024 12:09:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: WillieTangoFox]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By marnsdorff: For $60, those little packs are hard to beat. I'm tempted to take mine apart to pattern so I can start making some. But I already have a ton of projects on my hands - besides the stuff I'm doing for people, I've got the modernized medium ALICE project and the 'start making British style smocks here in the USA' project going. I'm going to have to do the British pack project at some point in the future though. And that little Eberlestock looks like it'll get the job done with belt kit. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By marnsdorff: Originally Posted By WillieTangoFox: I am trying to save money right now, if we could stop posting links to delicious euro surplus bags. Here is my old Eberlestock, dont even know the model name. Its on an Alice, and the harness adjusts to a high back. Kind of hard to see whats happening, as its already loaded/staged for this weekend with stuffs. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/123862/IMG_0255_jpeg-3300144.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/123862/IMG_0253_jpeg-3300145.JPG For $60, those little packs are hard to beat. I'm tempted to take mine apart to pattern so I can start making some. But I already have a ton of projects on my hands - besides the stuff I'm doing for people, I've got the modernized medium ALICE project and the 'start making British style smocks here in the USA' project going. I'm going to have to do the British pack project at some point in the future though. And that little Eberlestock looks like it'll get the job done with belt kit. I really wanted to like the rocket pack concept to turn the side pouches to a daypack…….. but found it lacking. I think my old dutch stuff is somewhere in storage, Now I want to play with it……. Lol. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/21/2024 1:34:57 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WillieTangoFox: I really wanted to like the rocket pack concept to turn the side pouches to a daypack…….. but found it lacking. I think my old dutch stuff is somewhere in storage, Now I want to play with it……. Lol. I've got an idea I've been playing with in my head to kinda do this. A pack similar looking to that NI Patrol Pack above, converts from a bigger pack - like the patrol pack, maybe a touch bigger, like a medium ALICE maybe ...to a smaller daypack size, by taking out the main pack bag and folding in the side pockets, using the side pockets and lid as the daypack. |
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Posted: 8/21/2024 2:12:19 PM EDT
[#17]
After reading lots of comments about interfacing packs and waist belt mounted kit, seems to me that we need a "better" description of how waist belt mounted kit is ideally "mated" to the pack.
Some confusion here, and some clarification made by experts might be very useful. |
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Posted: 8/21/2024 2:51:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WillieTangoFox]
[#18]
Am I wrong in the understanding that the Euro market has made the designation of low back vs high back in their description and this has not exactly been a thing in the US market? (Very far from being an expert)
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MD, USA
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Posted: 8/21/2024 4:33:37 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By marnsdorff: I've got an idea I've been playing with in my head to kinda do this. A pack similar looking to that NI Patrol Pack above, converts from a bigger pack - like the patrol pack, maybe a touch bigger, like a medium ALICE maybe ...to a smaller daypack size, by taking out the main pack bag and folding in the side pockets, using the side pockets and lid as the daypack. Eberlestock made a pack kinda like that. The Skycrane maybe? Not sure if they still do. It’s a good concept. That way you have one solid frame/suspension system. I thought the PLCE Bergen was a good concept with the rocket pockets being attached to a yoke. Until I tried it. Good in concept, poor in execution. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/21/2024 6:22:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WillieTangoFox: Am I wrong in the understanding that the Euro market has made the designation of low back vs high back in their description and this has not exactly been a thing in the US market? (Very far from being an expert) Some of the British packs have that, though I don't think it's an 'official, marked on the product' description. I'm not a huge expert in the ins and outs of this either, but I've read alot on it. I know that the US marker for packs, alot of the oldschool knowledge of what works with beltkits has started to disappear, especially in the manufacturing spaces. Most dudes out there don't understand the concept of belt kit, or how to run a pack with it, much less design a pack around the idea of making it work with belt kit. This is why you see alot of the packs that do work with belt kit come from British and Australian companies - who still actively run belt kit in at least some of their units. In the US, we are still lucky to have packs that are interchangeable with the ALICE system, which works decently well with belt kit - as long as you understand how to set it up. The military has been loath to get away from the system, maybe for good reason as alot of the parts are inter-changeable with older gear. It's an easier transition maybe? Probably some good pros and cons there. The Mystery Ranch contracts have helped push packs away from that, but then their bigger rucks aren't that great for belt kit? At least the two I have and the one I used to have aren't. |
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Posted: 8/22/2024 3:08:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Diz]
[#21]
The Brit "MOD" system came out with two pack sizes originally. The tag sez: Rucksack and Frame, Short, Convoluted Back, or, Rucksack and Frame, Long, Convoluted Back. Convoluted, as in the shaping of the padding (a series of peaks and valleys), and Short, or Long, depending on the user's torso length. But, as many came to realize, the "Short Back" made a perfect companion for your belt kit, for most folks. You had to be like 6'5" or more to want a Long Back with your belt kit.
So the term "Short Back" came into common usage to describe any pack that sat higher on your back, so as to make room for your belt kit. The classic ALICE is a perfect example. The FILBE and Large Molle can also work this way. All CF packs were designed from the ground up for this app. These packs are not designed to sit down on your hips like a classic civvie ruck, but right above your belt line. So if you're in the market for a full-sized, Brit "Bergen", and you have a lumbar measurement of around 16"-18", a "Short Back" will work great with your belt kit. If you prefer a chest rig, and the ruck waist belt down on your hips, then get a "Long Back". If you have a lumbar measurement of say 19"-21", then you would want a "Long Back" with your belt kit. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/22/2024 3:29:59 PM EDT
[#22]
Do they actually label the packs 'short back' or 'long back'? Or is that just how they are referred to?
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Posted: 8/22/2024 3:34:31 PM EDT
[#23]
Oh yeah, it says: Rucksack and Frame, (INF), Short/Long, Convoluted Back. Then the current ones say: MTP, IRR, NSN:xxxxxxx, Contract Number:xxxxxxx, Year of Mfg:xxxx
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CA, USA
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Posted: 8/23/2024 12:35:18 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By marnsdorff: I know that the US marker for packs, alot of the oldschool knowledge of what works with beltkits has started to disappear, especially in the manufacturing spaces. Most dudes out there don't understand the concept of belt kit, or how to run a pack with it, much less design a pack around the idea of making it work with belt kit. This is why you see alot of the packs that do work with belt kit come from British and Australian companies - who still actively run belt kit in at least some of their units. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By marnsdorff: I know that the US marker for packs, alot of the oldschool knowledge of what works with beltkits has started to disappear, especially in the manufacturing spaces. Most dudes out there don't understand the concept of belt kit, or how to run a pack with it, much less design a pack around the idea of making it work with belt kit. This is why you see alot of the packs that do work with belt kit come from British and Australian companies - who still actively run belt kit in at least some of their units. These are very astute points. It’s very interesting that America pretty much completely adopted the elongated design of commercial hiking backpacks like you’d see on the Appalachian or PCT. A pack like the ILBE is phenomenal for that. Rucking around with belt kit? Not so much. The question is will we see a resurgence of pack designs that prioritize short back or external frames. In the US, we are still lucky to have packs that are interchangeable with the ALICE system, which works decently well with belt kit - as long as you understand how to set it up. The military has been loath to get away from the system, maybe for good reason as alot of the parts are inter-changeable with older gear. It's an easier transition maybe? Probably some good pros and cons there. The Mystery Ranch contracts have helped push packs away from that, but then their bigger rucks aren't that great for belt kit? At least the two I have and the one I used to have aren't. For the ALICE system type packs, what adjustments to you think are ideal to better integrate with belt kit? |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 8/23/2024 12:36:53 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lew: If you can swing a frameless pack, I highly recommend the Savotta Jääkäri S pack. I have two. With belt kit, I can be out for three days in non-wintry weather. This is nice. I think I prefer something bigger to wear but I really like the fact that you can roll that pack up into something very small and stuff it into a larger ruck as an assault pack. It looks crazy rugged for how small it can pack |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 8/23/2024 12:45:51 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By marnsdorff: As for the Malice pack, there ain't nothing wrong with the MALICE pack (or Large Alice in general). The ALICE system (the MALICE is basically a modded out Large ALICE) usually works well with belt kit. The Crossfire stuff is very similar in alot of ways to the ALICE system, but a very upgraded, modernized version. If you can get the MALICE suspension dialed in to work for you, then the MALICE will do what you want it to do. But this is the key here - it doesn't work for everyone, as there isn't much adjustment in the system. You are REALLY going to want to get a better set of shoulder straps for that. That would be the first thing I'd upgrade. Then the belt, then the frame. And the frame, mostly because the stock ALICE frames eventually fail. If you are going to run the MALICE pack, there are a bunch of little tips and tricks you can do to fix various little issues. It's worth researching this stuff. These little things end up helping alot. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By marnsdorff: As for the Malice pack, there ain't nothing wrong with the MALICE pack (or Large Alice in general). The ALICE system (the MALICE is basically a modded out Large ALICE) usually works well with belt kit. The Crossfire stuff is very similar in alot of ways to the ALICE system, but a very upgraded, modernized version. If you can get the MALICE suspension dialed in to work for you, then the MALICE will do what you want it to do. But this is the key here - it doesn't work for everyone, as there isn't much adjustment in the system. You are REALLY going to want to get a better set of shoulder straps for that. That would be the first thing I'd upgrade. Then the belt, then the frame. And the frame, mostly because the stock ALICE frames eventually fail. If you are going to run the MALICE pack, there are a bunch of little tips and tricks you can do to fix various little issues. It's worth researching this stuff. These little things end up helping alot. Thanks for all the tips. I read this earlier this week and actually got an improved set of pack straps from a local surplus shop. They’re pretty comparable to the TT super straps. It seems harder to find the right hip belt that will still interface properly with belt kit. I’ll look for the other mods and tips online. I’m sure a lot of the good info is lurking in past posts around here. Originally Posted By Diz: But again, most anything will do, if you will do. Spent a lot of time under an ALICE pack, with modified GI belt kits. The key is getting your belt pouches down low, so the ruck frame will fit on top of it better, as in the canteen caps not protruding up and banging into the frame. If the ALICE frame (or any other for that matter) is sitting on your canteen caps, it's like someone with two thumbs, pressing down on your belt kit. Instead of the load being spread over the entire belt area. This also makes you rig the belt kit lower so your shoulder straps are in proper position. Nice tips on pack height and belt placement. I figure riding the pack / straps high on the shoulders helps leave extra space for belt. And then adjusting the belt to be a tad bit lower, maybe even borderline touching ones ass gets you the right balance of the two setups? |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/23/2024 2:25:14 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ct78: These are very astute points. It’s very interesting that America pretty much completely adopted the elongated design of commercial hiking backpacks like you’d see on the Appalachian or PCT. A pack like the ILBE is phenomenal for that. Rucking around with belt kit? Not so much. The question is will we see a resurgence of pack designs that prioritize short back or external frames. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ct78: These are very astute points. It’s very interesting that America pretty much completely adopted the elongated design of commercial hiking backpacks like you’d see on the Appalachian or PCT. A pack like the ILBE is phenomenal for that. Rucking around with belt kit? Not so much. The question is will we see a resurgence of pack designs that prioritize short back or external frames. Not in the commercial market, other than select companies like Crossfire that market specifically to military. TBH, internal frame packs are better for backpacking, and that's the biggest market for now. Originally Posted By ct78: Thanks for all the tips. I read this earlier this week and actually got an improved set of pack straps from a local surplus shop. They’re pretty comparable to the TT super straps. Nice! The straps are usually the expensive part. Originally Posted By ct78: It seems harder to find the right hip belt that will still interface properly with belt kit. You can always get a surplus MOLLE pack belt. It's going to be better than the stock ALICE belt. I've seen people flip the belt upside down so the flat side faces down, better to rest on the belt kit. I have no idea if that works though. I've also seen people trim most of the 'sides' of the belt off too, basically shortening the belt, so that it won't wrap all the way around the waist. (the padding) Originally Posted By ct78:For the ALICE system type packs, what adjustments to you think are ideal to better integrate with belt kit? This is pretty personal. And it depends on which pack (medium or large) and what you intend to do with it. There are dozens of frames available - TT makes nice welded metal frames for instance. There are like 4 or 5 decent polymer frames made by (I forgot that company's name?) Bunch of others. All have pros and cons. I'd look at getting a TT frame if you have a large ALICE. If you have a medium ALICE, the frame used on the FILBE isn't a bad choice. There's a TON of mods to the pack, frame, etc. I've seen over the years. Different places to place padding on the frame for instance. Certain frames have little gaps where they make custom pouches or similar DIY pouches to fill gaps, etc. I've been out of this game for YEARS, otherwise I'd post more details. |
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Posted: 8/23/2024 11:24:29 AM EDT
[#28]
Just to add on fitting. You have to decide what height you want the bolt kit to sit, as this sets up how the ruck will integrate with the belt kit. I will adjust my belt kit to sit slightly high, i.e., right above the pants/belt line, so when a full ruck sit on top of it, it will then stretch down into proper position. So my belt kit sits just flush with where my pants belt is located, and the whole she-bang sits below this, as a gridle of sorts around your hips. The rucksack is then adjusted (via top stab straps, and lower "tranny" straps) to just kiss the belt kit, or add weight to it, depending on how I want to manage the weight on the march.
You have to be careful with an ALICE system, as it has no allowance for this kind of weight adjustment. You simply have to adjust the belt kit up to it, and then "drive" the system by tightening or loosening the main shoulder straps. This may end up with a slightly different position for the belt kit, depending on your torso length. Again, what the PLCE-style system allows you to do, is get the belt kit itself flush with the bottom of the ruck, as opposed to just the canteen caps jutting up to meet it. And with the design of the ALICE frame, this results in a variable interface, to say the least; as you bend and move the canteen caps skate over the various parts of the frame or lumbar pad. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/23/2024 12:51:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Diz: Just to add on fitting. You have to decide what height you want the bolt kit to sit, as this sets up how the ruck will integrate with the belt kit. I will adjust my belt kit to sit slightly high, i.e., right above the pants/belt line, so when a full ruck sit on top of it, it will then stretch down into proper position. So my belt kit sits just flush with where my pants belt is located, and the whole she-bang sits below this, as a gridle of sorts around your hips. The rucksack is then adjusted (via top stab straps, and lower "tranny" straps) to just kiss the belt kit, or add weight to it, depending on how I want to manage the weight on the march. Again, what the PLCE-style system allows you to do, is get the belt kit itself flush with the bottom of the ruck, as opposed to just the canteen caps jutting up to meet it. And with the design of the ALICE frame, this results in a variable interface, to say the least; as you bend and move the canteen caps skate over the various parts of the frame or lumbar pad. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Diz: Just to add on fitting. You have to decide what height you want the bolt kit to sit, as this sets up how the ruck will integrate with the belt kit. I will adjust my belt kit to sit slightly high, i.e., right above the pants/belt line, so when a full ruck sit on top of it, it will then stretch down into proper position. So my belt kit sits just flush with where my pants belt is located, and the whole she-bang sits below this, as a gridle of sorts around your hips. The rucksack is then adjusted (via top stab straps, and lower "tranny" straps) to just kiss the belt kit, or add weight to it, depending on how I want to manage the weight on the march. Again, what the PLCE-style system allows you to do, is get the belt kit itself flush with the bottom of the ruck, as opposed to just the canteen caps jutting up to meet it. And with the design of the ALICE frame, this results in a variable interface, to say the least; as you bend and move the canteen caps skate over the various parts of the frame or lumbar pad. Yea, this is part of what I was saying about it's really personal and lots of tweaking and choices to make to get your ALICE system dialed in. Some of the frames make the pack ride slightly different in height. But since you are running a large alice, you're kinda limited in choices of frames that won't quickly fail under that size pack. (some of the choices really only work right with a medium alice) Originally Posted By Diz: Again, what the PLCE-style system allows you to do, is get the belt kit itself flush with the bottom of the ruck, as opposed to just the canteen caps jutting up to meet it. And with the design of the ALICE frame, this results in a variable interface, to say the least; as you bend and move the canteen caps skate over the various parts of the frame or lumbar pad. Yea, I took alot of time when designing my USGI style buttpacks to make sure they they rode the same height as British utility pouches / my nalgene pouches to create that shelf. Both when attached via molle or sewn on. The oldschool actual ALICE gear, the buttpack rode higher than the tops of the canteens, plus the design of the canteens / canteen pouches didn't provide much of a shelf. the PLCE style works WAY better. |
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Posted: 8/23/2024 10:51:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By marnsdorff: Yea, this is part of what I was saying about it's really personal and lots of tweaking and choices to make to get your ALICE system dialed in. Some of the frames make the pack ride slightly different in height. But since you are running a large alice, you're kinda limited in choices of frames that won't quickly fail under that size pack. (some of the choices really only work right with a medium alice) Yea, I took alot of time when designing my USGI style buttpacks to make sure they they rode the same height as British utility pouches / my nalgene pouches to create that shelf. Both when attached via molle or sewn on. The oldschool actual ALICE gear, the buttpack rode higher than the tops of the canteens, plus the design of the canteens / canteen pouches didn't provide much of a shelf. the PLCE style works WAY better. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By marnsdorff: Originally Posted By Diz: Just to add on fitting. You have to decide what height you want the bolt kit to sit, as this sets up how the ruck will integrate with the belt kit. I will adjust my belt kit to sit slightly high, i.e., right above the pants/belt line, so when a full ruck sit on top of it, it will then stretch down into proper position. So my belt kit sits just flush with where my pants belt is located, and the whole she-bang sits below this, as a gridle of sorts around your hips. The rucksack is then adjusted (via top stab straps, and lower "tranny" straps) to just kiss the belt kit, or add weight to it, depending on how I want to manage the weight on the march. Again, what the PLCE-style system allows you to do, is get the belt kit itself flush with the bottom of the ruck, as opposed to just the canteen caps jutting up to meet it. And with the design of the ALICE frame, this results in a variable interface, to say the least; as you bend and move the canteen caps skate over the various parts of the frame or lumbar pad. Yea, this is part of what I was saying about it's really personal and lots of tweaking and choices to make to get your ALICE system dialed in. Some of the frames make the pack ride slightly different in height. But since you are running a large alice, you're kinda limited in choices of frames that won't quickly fail under that size pack. (some of the choices really only work right with a medium alice) Originally Posted By Diz: Again, what the PLCE-style system allows you to do, is get the belt kit itself flush with the bottom of the ruck, as opposed to just the canteen caps jutting up to meet it. And with the design of the ALICE frame, this results in a variable interface, to say the least; as you bend and move the canteen caps skate over the various parts of the frame or lumbar pad. Yea, I took alot of time when designing my USGI style buttpacks to make sure they they rode the same height as British utility pouches / my nalgene pouches to create that shelf. Both when attached via molle or sewn on. The oldschool actual ALICE gear, the buttpack rode higher than the tops of the canteens, plus the design of the canteens / canteen pouches didn't provide much of a shelf. the PLCE style works WAY better. RE: buttpack ride height That’s why I used the old canvas buttpuck and didn’t use the top attachment points. I let it sag low to help creat that rear shelf long before I knew anything about doing that |
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Posted: 8/24/2024 8:04:13 PM EDT
[#31]
Drive by post:
I’m just a dude. A dude with a belt kit fetish. But I’m about to sell basically everything that isn’t my Diz Rig and a Nixie rig. JayJays, Velocity, BFG, surplus, all of it. I seriously love the diz rig that much. The Nixie I just haven’t used enough to know yet. About to order the CF1 pack too, at least when funds allow. I feel like that’s gonna be the way for your average neighborhood/ranch defense LARP’er |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/24/2024 9:23:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cowboy: Drive by post: I’m just a dude. A dude with a belt kit fetish. But I’m about to sell basically everything that isn’t my Diz Rig and a Nixie rig. JayJays, Velocity, BFG, surplus, all of it. I seriously love the diz rig that much. The Nixie I just haven’t used enough to know yet. About to order the CF1 pack too, at least when funds allow. I feel like that’s gonna be the way for your average neighborhood/ranch defense LARP’er Yea, the DZ rig is the way to go for an off the shelf rig for sure. The Nixie rig, while a niche product, is pretty interesting. I really do like some of the ideas he put into it. It might actually work pretty well for where you are in Arizona, as you won't be needing alot of heavy insulation layers in the desert. (assuming you are in the desert and not up in the mountains) I like my little CF1, though I don't have a huge amount of time with it yet. |
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Posted: 8/24/2024 11:09:22 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cowboy: Drive by post: I’m just a dude. A dude with a belt kit fetish. But I’m about to sell basically everything that isn’t my Diz Rig and a Nixie rig. JayJays, Velocity, BFG, surplus, all of it. I seriously love the diz rig that much. The Nixie I just haven’t used enough to know yet. About to order the CF1 pack too, at least when funds allow. I feel like that’s gonna be the way for your average neighborhood/ranch defense LARP’er I'm intrigued about the Nixie rig. Mostly because it seems I'm gravitating that way. PM me if you want to sell it. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/2/2024 8:09:36 PM EDT
[#34]
If anyone is looking for some cheap British MOLLE utility pouches, Keep Shooting has their Desert DPM utility pouches on sale right now for $5 each. They are dyeable with RIT dye.
They also have the matching ammo pouches for $10, but they only hold 2 x AR mags. https://www.keepshooting.com/british-osprey-utility-pouch.html |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/6/2024 11:40:44 AM EDT
[#35]
Someone posted this in another thread. Ukrainian troops. Specifically note the belt kit on the guy on the left. Specifically the mag pouches - covered mag pouches, with 2 x quick-access magazines tucked in behind the covered pouch.
I'd like to see something along the lines of a ESSTAC KWYI mag pouch set up like that behind a double mag pouch with lid for belt kit. Maybe have it have a 2nd kydex structure around the KWYI insert, so that it always holds it's shape, even after a mag has been pulled out, so that the outer mag pouches won't sag and flop around. Even if done for just one magazine - maybe tucked in behind the rearmost mag pouch on your weak side (the pouch I run my IFAK in) then you would still have access to one quick-access magazine, it would be relatively protected from snagging in that spot, and would give you an extra magazine while you are using up the main pouch for your IFAK. 
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Posted: 9/7/2024 8:17:37 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By marnsdorff: Someone posted this in another thread. Ukrainian troops. Specifically note the belt kit on the guy on the left. Specifically the mag pouches - covered mag pouches, with 2 x quick-access magazines tucked in behind the covered pouch. I'd like to see something along the lines of a ESSTAC KWYI mag pouch set up like that behind a double mag pouch with lid for belt kit. Maybe have it have a 2nd kydex structure around the KWYI insert, so that it always holds it's shape, even after a mag has been pulled out, so that the outer mag pouches won't sag and flop around. Even if done for just one magazine - maybe tucked in behind the rearmost mag pouch on your weak side (the pouch I run my IFAK in) then you would still have access to one quick-access magazine, it would be relatively protected from snagging in that spot, and would give you an extra magazine while you are using up the main pouch for your IFAK. https://p1gtac.com/image/cache/catalog/gallery/gal002-1000x666.png You know I actually thought about trying this. I have an extra 2x KYWI and some surplus MOLLE mag pouches that hold 2 mags. If I stacked them on front it should still hold 6x mags. |
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ITA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 8:57:12 AM EDT
[#37]
optactical has the platatac billy v2 on sale from 149.99 to 99.99
Regarding stacking pouches you might as well stack surplus shingle type pouches, the divider plus the snap closure makes them flop and sag a little less, granted they are 3 mags wide and that pals spacing will f@@k up your whole tight packed rig   
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Posted: 9/8/2024 4:12:51 PM EDT
[#38]
I am seeing some conflicting info online concerning the dimensions of a south african 2L canteen. I am wondering if anyone has one on hand to get a size, or relay if they fit in a DZ rig pouch.
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NV, USA
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Posted: 9/9/2024 2:27:12 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Diz: Some times I'm tempted to direct-sew web straps to the base pad; that way the hardware goes up on the yoke, and makes adjusting (down) on the fly easier. At least on the front straps. Do you think adding a split bar ladder lock (Like this) to the webbing the D ring uses would work for easier adjustments on the fly? Maybe strength and durability issues? Down side to it being inverted? |
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ITA
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Posted: 9/10/2024 12:35:30 PM EDT
[#40]
 a case study of French issue smoke and grenade pouches closure. aside the standard hook and loop on the flap there is another hook and loop strip that can be secured from accidental snagging and opening via another perpendicular piece of hook and loop not unlike the pieces used to tuck excess straps on some rigs and packs. it's all velcro with its problems with dirt, however i'd say it works. As usual, the French copy no one and no one copies the French. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2024 3:28:18 PM EDT
[#41]
I mean, it works I guess?
I just despise velcro. |
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Posted: 9/10/2024 5:50:40 PM EDT
[#42]
Looking for suggestions on how to carry a radio on the DZ rig? Hoping to avoid dedicating one of the rigs pouches to the radio. This doesn’t leave much real estate for the radio. There is the harness but not sure how the radio would fit on the harness. I’m sure some of you have recommendations for radio carry with the DZ rig or similar, right?
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Posted: 9/10/2024 6:01:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WillieTangoFox]
[#43]
I am going to guess a high band VHF or UHF small commercial radio. (140-160 440-470).
I would just take a double stack rifle mag pouch, like the USMC one and attach it to the side of canteen pouch. If you want to get the antenna higher, get a relocation cable and attach it to the harness or pack. NOTE; I recommend all radios convert from sma to bnc connectors, to facilitate the use of field antennas or antenna relocation cables. If you would like photos, i can get some later….., my DZ rig and radios are still in pelican cases from last weekend. |
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Posted: 9/10/2024 6:13:17 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WillieTangoFox: I am going to guess a high band VHF or UHF small commercial radio. (140-160 440-470). I would just take a double stack rifle mag pouch, like the USMC one and attach it to the side of canteen pouch. If you want to get the antenna higher, get a relocation cable and attach it to the harness or pack. NOTE; I recommend all radios convert from sma to bnc connectors, to facilitate the use of field antennas or antenna relocation cables. If you would like photos, i can get some later….., my DZ rig and radios are still in pelican cases from last weekend. You are partially right, uhf/vhf but it’s a large Harris radio. I’ve got a pouch…. I think. I’ll see if the radio will fit in that location. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2024 7:37:17 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jharpphoto: You are partially right, uhf/vhf but it’s a large Harris radio. I’ve got a pouch…. I think. I’ll see if the radio will fit in that location. I would imagine it will, once the belt is curved as-worn. |
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Posted: 9/10/2024 7:41:22 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jharpphoto: You are partially right, uhf/vhf but it’s a large Harris radio. I’ve got a pouch…. I think. I’ll see if the radio will fit in that location. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jharpphoto: Originally Posted By WillieTangoFox: I am going to guess a high band VHF or UHF small commercial radio. (140-160 440-470). I would just take a double stack rifle mag pouch, like the USMC one and attach it to the side of canteen pouch. If you want to get the antenna higher, get a relocation cable and attach it to the harness or pack. NOTE; I recommend all radios convert from sma to bnc connectors, to facilitate the use of field antennas or antenna relocation cables. If you would like photos, i can get some later….., my DZ rig and radios are still in pelican cases from last weekend. You are partially right, uhf/vhf but it’s a large Harris radio. I’ve got a pouch…. I think. I’ll see if the radio will fit in that location. If you have to offset the pouch high due to lack of molle fields, try to use some bungy cords to snug it up, if needed, |
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Posted: 9/10/2024 7:47:08 PM EDT
[#47]
good idea. Thanks sir.
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Posted: 9/10/2024 8:25:41 PM EDT
[#48]
looks like the radio will fit on the side of the canteen pouch, unfortunately the top row of webbing on the side of canteen pouch starts about 1/3 of the way down the pouch. this leaves the bottom of the radio flopping about beneath the pouch. I guess if there were an additional row of webbing at the top of that pouch I could mount the radio pouch further up on the canteen pouch, eliminating some of that flop. I may be trying to use the radio in a manner that the DZ rig is not intended. Good news the radio will fit fine in the canteen pouch.
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2024 8:35:19 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WillieTangoFox: I am going to guess a high band VHF or UHF small commercial radio. (140-160 440-470). I would just take a double stack rifle mag pouch, like the USMC one and attach it to the side of canteen pouch. If you want to get the antenna higher, get a relocation cable and attach it to the harness or pack. NOTE; I recommend all radios convert from sma to bnc connectors, to facilitate the use of field antennas or antenna relocation cables. If you would like photos, i can get some later….., my DZ rig and radios are still in pelican cases from last weekend. This is where I run my radios on belt kits too. |
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Posted: 9/10/2024 8:36:33 PM EDT
[#50]
FWIW; if I have to monitor a radio, i always run a small pack with it mounted high.
If I am just carrying a radio to make set comms windows, i just run it in a side pouch on the rig and forget about it. I usually have the pack, because if I am on radio, I need coax, field antenna and throw lines to get them up in a tree. |
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