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Posted: 11/25/2023 1:42:26 PM EDT
[#1]
RDS and light only on home defense weapon.
CCW neither. Research has shown that nearly all SD situations are within a few yards and practically never go to a second mag. Dots and irons within a few yards would not make a difference for me. Me CCW, g26, irons, NS, IWB. Any additions makes it cumbersome for no reason. That is me. YMMV. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 1:44:06 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why should you not be training heavily with your carry gun as an armed civilian? I'm perfectly confident the iron sights having CC guns I use will get me through any self defense encounter I might find myself in. I don't feel the need to larp like I'm some special forces soldier. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 1:44:35 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RDS and light only on home defense weapon. CCW neither. Research has shown that nearly all SD situations are within a few yards and practically never go to a second mag. Dots and irons within a few yards would not make a difference for me. Me CCW, g26, irons, NS, IWB. Any additions makes it cumbersome for no reason. That is me. YMMV. Cool. Show us the research. Also, how are you predicting how your defensive encounter will shake out? Please predict mine so I can adjust my gear accordingly. Thanks. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 1:45:35 PM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 11/25/2023 1:46:46 PM EDT
[#5]
I’m still better with irons than dots on pistols. Opposite on rifles.
My CCWs are too small for RDS. And forget pocket carry. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 1:46:50 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm perfectly confident the iron sights having CC guns I use will get me through any self defense encounter I might find myself in. I don't feel the need to larp like I'm some special forces soldier. Cool. Why are you confident? What standards are you training to? Where do you think that lands you on this chart?  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 1:47:22 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m still better with irons than dots on pistols. Opposite on rifles. My CCWs are too small for RDS. And forget pocket carry. I don’t need a reminder to forget about pocket carry. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 1:48:30 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm perfectly confident the iron sights having CC guns I use will get me through any self defense encounter I might find myself in. I don't feel the need to larp like I'm some special forces soldier. There it is. The mantra of those that don't train. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 1:48:34 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was going to light the Sasha-signal if I didn't see you were already in the thread, LOL. Might as well take 4-5 of your bullet points on RDS and sticky them to the top of GD.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 1:48:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Simple, batteries die, sometimes it's dark, so no solar, and things break.
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Posted: 11/25/2023 1:49:17 PM EDT
[#11]
I'm transitioning to dots where ever possible. I was keeping some of my longer pistols as iron only guns for comps, but will be putting dots on those, too.
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Posted: 11/25/2023 1:50:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Simple, batteries die, sometimes it's dark, so no solar, and things break. With that in mind would it not be better to have an optic with BUIS so you have a level of redundancy rather than merely irons which also fail? |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 1:59:23 PM EDT
[#13]
20 years of USPSA I never saw a guy not be able to find his irons.
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Posted: 11/25/2023 1:59:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Not going to be carving up my classic revolvers for dots any time soon.
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:05:21 PM EDT
[#15]
I have both, and I prefer iron sights.
Finding the "dot" I find slows me down, and I have never had iron sights fail. I will say I have not had a RDS fail, yet. If you prefer RDS that great! |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:11:55 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RDS and light only on home defense weapon. CCW neither. Research has shown that nearly all SD situations are within a few yards and practically never go to a second mag. Dots and irons within a few yards would not make a difference for me. Me CCW, g26, irons, NS, IWB. Any additions makes it cumbersome for no reason. That is me. YMMV. I thought the idea for having multiple backup mags wasn't exactly for having more ammo, but for having the ability to change a mag in the event of malfunctions? |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:12:50 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 20 years of USPSA I never saw a guy not be able to find his irons. Then you should also know how iron divisions are left in the dust by optic divisions. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:13:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have both, and I prefer iron sights. Finding the "dot" I find slows me down, and I have never had iron sights fail. I will say I have not had a RDS fail, yet. If you prefer RDS that great! Then your presentation has serious issues. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:15:54 PM EDT
[#19]
I like both and shoot both equally well. There are a few instances were I like irons better, and few when a dot is better for me. But really it is training and a solid index that makes the difference.
I find that how a gun points and how well I can get a solid grip on the gun makes a bigger difference in shooting drill times than what sighting system I use |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:16:14 PM EDT
[#20]
Dots have some definite advantages but they're hardly a necessity IMO.
I'd like them a lot more if they were able to do away with the distracting window and framing and just have a holographic dot or reticle floating in the air, or projected rearward onto your eye. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:19:08 PM EDT
[#21]
Nope.
Not even close. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:19:16 PM EDT
[#22]
I don’t like red dots after trying them. I prefer irons and a light.
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:19:44 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With that in mind would it not be better to have an optic with BUIS so you have a level of redundancy rather than merely irons which also fail? Irons have built in triple redundancy. Under normal conditions you ignore them and point shoot because all gunfights take place from 7-10 yards and you only need to land hits anywhere on a silhouette. If your front sight falls off you can ignore your rear sight and point shoot, if your rear sight falls off you can ignore your front sight and point shoot, and if both fall off you can point shoot without the distraction of sights. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:24:01 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Irons have built in triple redundancy. Under normal conditions you ignore them and point shoot because all gunfights take place from 7-10 yards and you only need to land hits anywhere on a silhouette. If your front sight falls off you can ignore your rear sight and point shoot, if your rear sight falls off you can ignore your front sight and point shoot, and if both fall off you can point shoot without the distraction of sights. Oh yeah… the “you won’t see your sights in a gunfight” nonsense.  You Won't See Your Sights in a Gunfight |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:26:12 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Might as well get the retardation started early in this thread. You had to know it was coming. I knew it as soon as I saw the thread title. It’s amazing how willfully ignorant people are. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:28:55 PM EDT
[#26]
Most of them, yes. But the 1911 and 686 I got from my dad and Beretta 1951 I got from grandpa are staying as is.
Next one to get an optic cut will be my G43 when I have some extra funds. All my other Glocks already have an RMR. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:31:18 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then you should also know how iron divisions are left in the dust by optic divisions. Very much but nobody’s shootin at them fellas. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:32:09 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope, i traded my G43X MOS for a flint lock. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:34:44 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You had to know it was coming. I knew it as soon as I saw the thread title. It’s amazing how willfully ignorant people are. We need the bingo card: You won’t see your sights in a gunfight. I shoot good enough with irons (despite not owning a timer, training to standards, or having any way to accurately asses performance. I won’t have time to turn it on! Tried it for 20 minutes with no dryfire and couldn’t find the dot so I gave up. What if I get it wet/bbq sauce/someone attacks you with water balloons full of black paint and sand? BULK! No advantage within 25 yards and 99.999999% of gunfights are at nipple-to-nipple distance. ELECTRONIC THINGS BREAK IRONS NEVER FAIL I mean, irons are fine and you can perform at a very high level with them but most of the arguments against optics are just nonsensical. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:35:37 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Very much but nobody’s shootin at them fellas. Is someone shooting at you while you train with irons? |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:41:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Irons have built in triple redundancy. Under normal conditions you ignore them and point shoot because all gunfights take place from 7-10 yards and you only need to land hits anywhere on a silhouette. If your front sight falls off you can ignore your rear sight and point shoot, if your rear sight falls off you can ignore your front sight and point shoot, and if both fall off you can point shoot without the distraction of sights. Its not like you can't shoot when your dot goes out. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:47:23 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most people don't think they have time to train, when in reality they don't know how to manage their time effectively. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I had one on a Glock 41 for handgun hunting. I can see the utility in that scenario. For a special forces operator or maybe certain police roles where you train heavily on one specific gun and get your presentation right I can see some utility there. For someone who conceal carries a multitude of different guns it's more of a problem. Not going to put a red dot on a j-frame I pocket carry occasionally. Not going to put one on a regular G43 where the entire point of the gun is to be small. Why should you not be training heavily with your carry gun as an armed civilian? Most people don't think they have time to train, when in reality they don't know how to manage their time effectively. Apparently people didn't think that dry fire or drawing from the holster counts as training. It costs nothing to do that and you can do it in a lot of places that don't require driving somewhere. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:51:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm perfectly confident the iron sights having CC guns I use will get me through any self defense encounter I might find myself in. I don't feel the need to larp like I'm some special forces soldier. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why should you not be training heavily with your carry gun as an armed civilian? I'm perfectly confident the iron sights having CC guns I use will get me through any self defense encounter I might find myself in. I don't feel the need to larp like I'm some special forces soldier.  Well since special forces uses pistols you don't want to larp by using a pistol so might as well just stick to pepper spray. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:53:14 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We need the bingo card: You won’t see your sights in a gunfight. I shoot good enough with irons (despite not owning a timer, training to standards, or having any way to accurately asses performance. I won’t have time to turn it on! Tried it for 20 minutes with no dryfire and couldn’t find the dot so I gave up. What if I get it wet/bbq sauce/someone attacks you with water balloons full of black paint and sand? BULK! No advantage within 25 yards and 99.999999% of gunfights are at nipple-to-nipple distance. ELECTRONIC THINGS BREAK IRONS NEVER FAIL I mean, irons are fine and you can perform at a very high level with them but most of the arguments against optics are just nonsensical. Every time we have one of these threads I’m reminded that most people never shoot, and have no idea what they are talking about. If they did they wouldn’t make the arguments they do. Those arguments make their ignorance glaringly obvious. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:54:26 PM EDT
[#35]
You’ll never use anything you don’t train with effectively.
Some have dots some don’t. I prefer optic when I can use them. Bottom line use what you want don’t hate people for not liking what you do. Nothing anywhere says what distance gunfights happen. Outliers can be a real bitch if all you do is train to the average plus the data pulled to make these so called average is extremely unreliable because there’s just not a lot of it to go off of. Same thing with how many rounds you will need. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:54:49 PM EDT
[#36]
I would probably only have iron sights but as I got older my eyesight went to shit. Now I wear bifocals which makes using iron sights difficult. Now I am going to dots (or scopes) on all firearms that can be reasonably easy to set up that way.
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:55:17 PM EDT
[#37]
seems a bit unnecessary at the ranges i'd need one for. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:59:38 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRp_wF91YGUs90TEiNVjBicLvRVTEG0Bqtw5JMWgcnCcUhLbMSgt2-P89uFQgB2GGK18i8&usqp=CAU seems a bit unnecessary at the ranges i'd need one for. What range is that, exactly? How do you know? |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 3:09:39 PM EDT
[#39]
Irons only. No fuss, no muss CCW.
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Posted: 11/25/2023 3:14:44 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Irons only. No fuss, no muss CCW. What’s the “fuss” or “muss” with an optic? |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 3:15:59 PM EDT
[#41]
All? No. Anything that I carry regularly, yes
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Posted: 11/25/2023 3:16:10 PM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 11/25/2023 3:18:04 PM EDT
[#43]
I would love to think I would be happy putting a dot on my 365xl, but the fact is, I'm a short, fat (working on that) little dude. Anything other than pocket carry is never really comfortable for me. And I hate having stuff in my pockets. For me carrying a gun is a giant uncomfortable PITA. I'm pretty certain adding the bulk of a dot would make it worse. I envy the guys that can CC something like a G17.
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Posted: 11/25/2023 3:19:11 PM EDT
[#44]
I’m not ditching my current G19s but my next purchase is going to be a G45 MOS set up like Lungbuster has his.
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Posted: 11/25/2023 3:19:50 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What’s the “fuss” or “muss” with an optic? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Irons only. No fuss, no muss CCW. What’s the “fuss” or “muss” with an optic? You tell me. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 3:22:42 PM EDT
[#46]
The addition of a RDS on my G-43 makes it much easier for me to shoot it like I could when my eyes were younger. I plan on upgrading everything I shoot, or expect to have to shoot for serious business with a RDS, rifles included.
I've had zero issues transitioning to the RDS on my CC piece. Zero negative aspects to carrying it at all. As for transitioning to presentation of the red dot vs. irons, it only took me a short time. Even though I will get better with more time and practice, I can find the dot a hell of a lot faster than a front sight I can't hardly see anymore... I was a doubter until I couldn't see my handgun's iron sights worth a shit anymore. My 1911s will retain irons because I can still see their larger sights enough to enjoy shooting them, and because an RDS on a 1911 looks awful. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 3:23:50 PM EDT
[#47]
If you're slower with a red dot, your presentation is garbage
If you don't want a red dot, you're not intelligent If you can't afford a red dot, you're a liar These are the 3 universal truths of pistol shooting. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 3:25:07 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m not ditching my current G19s but my next purchase is going to be a G45 MOS set up like Lungbuster has his. I would say the G45 MOS with the FCD plate is the way to go! The longer grip is really not that much longer vs a G19. Daily the X Carry which is no issue to CC. 
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Posted: 11/25/2023 3:27:24 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You tell me. There isn’t any. Drawing and presenting your gun and seeing a dot superimposed on your target is a simpler process than aligning a metal post in one location with a metal notch in a second location with a target in a third focal plane. I like easier. It’s faster and more accurate. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 3:35:18 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then your presentation has serious issues. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have both, and I prefer iron sights. Finding the "dot" I find slows me down, and I have never had iron sights fail. I will say I have not had a RDS fail, yet. If you prefer RDS that great! Then your presentation has serious issues. This is what most will never admit. |
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