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Posted: 2/23/2011 6:54:19 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

AF, keep fixing it till it breaks. When it breaks, hold a staff meeting with a power point presentation and impliment Zero Defect/TQM/AFSO 21 or what ever they are caling it this year. Do nothing with results except use it as a EPR/OER bullet. Repeat with new AF CC.

That would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that it is true.

Posted: 2/23/2011 7:04:15 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Ask me how I know that Circuit Breaker 14 in the SCC will stop the LCF elevator from coming up when it happens to have two missile crew in it and they've been dicks the past 24 hours and are in a hurry to get back to base.

So I'm not the only one that would have a elevator "break" on changeover days???

Was great when doing exercises...but even better on changover days when the ART was out on stupid stuff via the cone heads.....

Once a conehead called me speaking Spanish...he was seriously wound up....and speaking his native language...seems a missile away light lit up and he wanted me to send the ART out looking for signs of a missile launch....

Needless to say, the ART did not go anywhere...

That reminds me of the night, actually early morning, that I'd stumbled into my dorm room and passed out, drunk off my ass. Suddenly the light is flicked on and a Sergeant is yelling at me it's a recall and to get my ass down to the parking lot with my warbag.

I tell him to go fuck himself as I'm drunk, next thing I know I'm being propelled through the air, down the hallway, and shoved into a seat, with my bag thrown in my lap.

They take us to the armory and we get issued weapons. They were also serving coffee in the line. We sobered up really quick. The long bus ride out to the field helped and they made us drop all the windows, smelled like the Cheyenne Club in there.

Apparently a data plug had pulled out of a missile that had shifted in its silo, and the crew got a missile launch indication.

That next morning there was a perimeter of puking puppies when the sun came up.

Posted: 2/23/2011 7:05:11 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
AF, keep fixing it till it breaks. When it breaks, hold a staff meeting with a power point presentation and impliment Zero Defect/TQM/AFSO 21 or what ever they are caling it this year. Do nothing with results except use it as a EPR/OER bullet. Repeat with new AF CC.

That would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that it is true.

Yeah, remember QAF in the early 90s? What an abortion.

Posted: 2/23/2011 7:06:49 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:

AF, keep fixing it till it breaks. When it breaks, hold a staff meeting with a power point presentation and impliment Zero Defect/TQM/AFSO 21 or what ever they are caling it this year. Do nothing with results except use it as a EPR/OER bullet. Repeat with new AF CC.

That would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that it is true.

Yeah, remember QAF in the early 90s? What an abortion.

TQM?

NO SLOGANS!

Posted: 2/23/2011 7:07:34 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:

AF, keep fixing it till it breaks. When it breaks, hold a staff meeting with a power point presentation and impliment Zero Defect/TQM/AFSO 21 or what ever they are caling it this year. Do nothing with results except use it as a EPR/OER bullet. Repeat with new AF CC.

That would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that it is true.

Yeah, remember QAF in the early 90s? What an abortion.

2/3 of ALS was spent on that shit.
Guess what they did with QAF right after I graduated ALS?

Posted: 2/23/2011 7:09:11 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
AF, keep fixing it till it breaks. When it breaks, hold a staff meeting with a power point presentation and impliment Zero Defect/TQM/AFSO 21 or what ever they are caling it this year. Do nothing with results except use it as a EPR/OER bullet. Repeat with new AF CC.

That would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that it is true.

Yeah, remember QAF in the early 90s? What an abortion.

TQM?

NO SLOGANS!

Quality Air Force, it then evolved (mutated) into TQM. Made me want to kick an Airman Basic.

Posted: 2/23/2011 7:17:21 PM EDT

[#7]

I don't remember TQM. I joined in '94 and it was QAF then until late '98.

Don't remeber what we had between QAF and the current AFSO21 BS.
And what ever you do, don't call AFSO21 QAF around AFSO21 guys.

Posted: 2/23/2011 7:19:43 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
I don't remember TQM. I joined in '94 and it was QAF then until late '98.

Don't remeber what we had between QAF and the current AFSO21 BS.

And what ever you do, don't call AFSO21 QAF around AFSO21 guys.

Wow, so it's gotten worse?

Posted: 2/23/2011 8:35:53 PM EDT

[#9]

Without booze the AF would stop dead in it's tracks...

We were on telephone standby for a Global Shield when I was a wee young pup at Offutt...

No cell phones, so you were stuck at home..this went on for a couple weeks....people were rather pissy, morale sucked...could no go anywhere without calling your supervisor.before going and after arriving..could not even go shopping...

Finally our Capt said it's Friday...go out and have fun they won't do a recall Sat...

Everybody went to Building H (Hams bar right outside Bellevue gate) and got shitfaced....

So when the phone rang Saturday...

We staggered in...when in formation the Capt in blues was "inspecting" a guy puked all over her....projectile vomit into the chest...

So for the rest of the day they piled us into a flatbed truck full of ropes and stanchions & we roped and un roped aircraft after aircraft...puking on the side of the truck, on aircraft tires and all over the taxiways...

Posted: 2/23/2011 8:49:48 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
I don't remember TQM. I joined in '94 and it was QAF then until late '98.

Don't remeber what we had between QAF and the current AFSO21 BS.

And what ever you do, don't call AFSO21 QAF around AFSO21 guys.

Wasn't it LEAN?

Posted: 2/23/2011 9:26:02 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't remember TQM. I joined in '94 and it was QAF then until late '98.

Don't remeber what we had between QAF and the current AFSO21 BS.

And what ever you do, don't call AFSO21 QAF around AFSO21 guys.

Wasn't it LEAN?

Went through TQM training in 1991, would rather gouge my eyes out than go thru that again.....^%$#^& McPeak ! .....

AFSO21 ( AF Stupid Operations for the 21st century ) is equally stupid, it has morphed into an out of control absurd program...Peoples whole AF career is based on that abortion of stupidity and all they do is mess with things and make life miserable.

Posted: 2/23/2011 9:31:14 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't remember TQM. I joined in '94 and it was QAF then until late '98.

Don't remeber what we had between QAF and the current AFSO21 BS.

And what ever you do, don't call AFSO21 QAF around AFSO21 guys.

Wow, so it's gotten worse?

I spent 5 days doing an AFSO 21 class. There were about 10 Military and Civs from Supply and a few customers from other AFSCs. We had to map out every step of a part or item getting ordered. We had butcher paper hung on all 4 walls and we put every step down needed to order the item and what supply had to do to get the item to the customer. We used stickies to map it out. Some contractor that was running the class was retired from Toyota and this is what he used to do for them, cut out unneeded steps. In the corporate world, that probably works. Basically at the end of the meeting we had cut out all the steps (non-value added to the customer) needed to get the part to the customer besides delivering it.

That’s all great and all but this Civ (retired supply E8) mentioned that after cutting all that out of supply, the customer would not get his part. So it was a big waste of time and money. I would love to be able to cut out of all of the non-value added shit. But in the end if we did that there would be no part. You can't change supply at the base level. That has to come from the AF level/DOD and it would be like changing the way Mississippi river flows.

Nothing ever came out of it. No improvements, no nothing. It was the one of biggest waste of time that I have ever seen.
I would have loved to know how much that contractor from Toyota got paid. He did a few other AFSO 21 classes for other agencies on base.

So yeah, it’s gotten worse.

Posted: 2/23/2011 9:50:15 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't remember TQM. I joined in '94 and it was QAF then until late '98.

Don't remeber what we had between QAF and the current AFSO21 BS.

And what ever you do, don't call AFSO21 QAF around AFSO21 guys.

Wow, so it's gotten worse?

I spent 5 days doing an AFSO 21 class. There were about 10 Military and Civs from Supply and a few customers from other AFSCs. We had to map out every step of a part or item getting ordered. We had butcher paper hung on all 4 walls and we put every step down needed to order the item and what supply had to do to get the item to the customer. We used stickies to map it out. Some contractor that was running the class was retired from Toyota and this is what he used to do for them, cut out unneeded steps. In the corporate world, that probably works. Basically at the end of the meeting we had cut out all the steps (non-value added to the customer) needed to get the part to the customer besides delivering it.

That’s all great and all but this Civ (retired supply E8) mentioned that after cutting all that out of supply, the customer would not get his part. So it was a big waste of time and money. I would love to be able to cut out of all of the non-value added shit. But in the end if we did that there would be no part. You can't change supply at the base level. That has to come from the AF level/DOD and it would be like changing the way Mississippi river flows.

Nothing ever came out of it. No improvements, no nothing. It was the one of biggest waste of time that I have ever seen.
I would have loved to know how much that contractor from Toyota got paid. He did a few other AFSO 21 classes for other agencies on base.

So yeah, it’s gotten worse.

My. Dear. God.

Posted: 2/23/2011 9:50:20 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't remember TQM. I joined in '94 and it was QAF then until late '98.

Don't remeber what we had between QAF and the current AFSO21 BS.

And what ever you do, don't call AFSO21 QAF around AFSO21 guys.

Wow, so it's gotten worse?

I spent 5 days doing an AFSO 21 class. There were about 10 Military and Civs from Supply and a few customers from other AFSCs. We had to map out every step of a part or item getting ordered. We had butcher paper hung on all 4 walls and we put every step down needed to order the item and what supply had to do to get the item to the customer. We used stickies to map it out. Some contractor that was running the class was retired from Toyota and this is what he used to do for them, cut out unneeded steps. In the corporate world, that probably works. Basically at the end of the meeting we had cut out all the steps (non-value added to the customer) needed to get the part to the customer besides delivering it.

That’s all great and all but this Civ (retired supply E8) mentioned that after cutting all that out of supply, the customer would not get his part. So it was a big waste of time and money. I would love to be able to cut out of all of the non-value added shit. But in the end if we did that there would be no part. You can't change supply at the base level. That has to come from the AF level/DOD and it would be like changing the way Mississippi river flows.

Nothing ever came out of it. No improvements, no nothing. It was the one of biggest waste of time that I have ever seen.
I would have loved to know how much that contractor from Toyota got paid. He did a few other AFSO 21 classes for other agencies on base.

So yeah, it’s gotten worse.

The military supply system is the biggest cluster fuck I've ever seen in my life.

It's like nothing has changed since 1910. So glad I'll never have to fill out another tag in this lifetime.

Posted: 2/24/2011 12:03:04 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I don't remember TQM. I joined in '94 and it was QAF then until late '98.

Don't remeber what we had between QAF and the current AFSO21 BS.
And what ever you do, don't call AFSO21 QAF around AFSO21 guys.

Wow, so it's gotten worse?

I spent 5 days doing an AFSO 21 class. There were about 10 Military and Civs from Supply and a few customers from other AFSCs. We had to map out every step of a part or item getting ordered. We had butcher paper hung on all 4 walls and we put every step down needed to order the item and what supply had to do to get the item to the customer. We used stickies to map it out. Some contractor that was running the class was retired from Toyota and this is what he used to do for them, cut out unneeded steps. In the corporate world, that probably works. Basically at the end of the meeting we had cut out all the steps (non-value added to the customer) needed to get the part to the customer besides delivering it.

That’s all great and all but this Civ (retired supply E8) mentioned that after cutting all that out of supply, the customer would not get his part. So it was a big waste of time and money. I would love to be able to cut out of all of the non-value added shit. But in the end if we did that there would be no part. You can't change supply at the base level. That has to come from the AF level/DOD and it would be like changing the way Mississippi river flows.

Nothing ever came out of it. No improvements, no nothing. It was the one of biggest waste of time that I have ever seen.

I would have loved to know how much that contractor from Toyota got paid. He did a few other AFSO 21 classes for other agencies on base.

So yeah, it’s gotten worse.

So, the AF uses the same process for ATOs as it does for supply.

This actually makes me happy. They don't hate the Army, they hate everyone equally.

Posted: 2/24/2011 1:24:52 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't remember TQM. I joined in '94 and it was QAF then until late '98.

Don't remeber what we had between QAF and the current AFSO21 BS.

And what ever you do, don't call AFSO21 QAF around AFSO21 guys.

Wow, so it's gotten worse?

I spent 5 days doing an AFSO 21 class. There were about 10 Military and Civs from Supply and a few customers from other AFSCs. We had to map out every step of a part or item getting ordered. We had butcher paper hung on all 4 walls and we put every step down needed to order the item and what supply had to do to get the item to the customer. We used stickies to map it out. Some contractor that was running the class was retired from Toyota and this is what he used to do for them, cut out unneeded steps. In the corporate world, that probably works. Basically at the end of the meeting we had cut out all the steps (non-value added to the customer) needed to get the part to the customer besides delivering it.

That’s all great and all but this Civ (retired supply E8) mentioned that after cutting all that out of supply, the customer would not get his part. So it was a big waste of time and money. I would love to be able to cut out of all of the non-value added shit. But in the end if we did that there would be no part. You can't change supply at the base level. That has to come from the AF level/DOD and it would be like changing the way Mississippi river flows.

Nothing ever came out of it. No improvements, no nothing. It was the one of biggest waste of time that I have ever seen.
I would have loved to know how much that contractor from Toyota got paid. He did a few other AFSO 21 classes for other agencies on base.

So yeah, it’s gotten worse.

So, the AF uses the same process for ATOs as it does for supply.
This actually makes me happy. They don't hate the Army, they hate everyone equally.

See you are not that special.

In the AF you have around 50% that are in the military and the other half is in the corporate world. And I’m being very generous with those numbers. Sometimes I think that OIF and OEF are an inconvenience to some people in the AF. Hate to bad mouth the AF that I have put so much time and energy into, but I’m not sure if we know which way to go anymore. I try to "stay my lane"

Posted: 2/24/2011 1:57:56 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't remember TQM. I joined in '94 and it was QAF then until late '98.

Don't remeber what we had between QAF and the current AFSO21 BS.

And what ever you do, don't call AFSO21 QAF around AFSO21 guys.

Wasn't it LEAN?

Went through TQM training in 1991, would rather gouge my eyes out than go thru that again.....^%$#^& McPeak ! .....

AFSO21 ( AF Stupid Operations for the 21st century ) is equally stupid, it has morphed into an out of control absurd program...Peoples whole AF career is based on that abortion of stupidity and all they do is mess with things and make life miserable.

You just had trouble with the paradigm shift that produced a value-added process specifically for your customers. You need more learning.

During TQM training we had a guy raise his hand and say:

"I have a question I don't understand I was wondering if you could answer it for me. I am having trouble identifying my customer. Is my customer the Mg29 pilot I shoot down during the mission or is it the hooker that blows my afterward that night?"

During TQM training we went around the table and everyone was supposed to tell a secret about them selves that nobody else knew. When it got to me I stood up and in a monotone voice said that I probably shouldn't say anything but there is one thing that nobody knows about me. At my last job I killed 2 coworkers and didn't get caught and then I sat down. The pilot next to me was laughing so hard he fell backward in his chair.

What a bunch of pussy horseshit that whole thing was.

Posted: 2/24/2011 2:12:20 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't remember TQM. I joined in '94 and it was QAF then until late '98.

Don't remeber what we had between QAF and the current AFSO21 BS.

And what ever you do, don't call AFSO21 QAF around AFSO21 guys.

Wasn't it LEAN?

Went through TQM training in 1991, would rather gouge my eyes out than go thru that again.....^%$#^& McPeak ! .....

AFSO21 ( AF Stupid Operations for the 21st century ) is equally stupid, it has morphed into an out of control absurd program...Peoples whole AF career is based on that abortion of stupidity and all they do is mess with things and make life miserable.

You just had trouble with the paradigm shift that produced a value-added process specifically for your customers. You need more learning.

During TQM training we had a guy raise his hand and say:

"I have a question I don't understand I was wondering if you could answer it for me. I am having trouble identifying my customer. Is my customer the Mg29 pilot I shoot down during the mission or is it the hooker that blows my afterward that night?"

During TQM training we went around the table and everyone was supposed to tell a secret about them selves that nobody else knew. When it got to me I stood up and in a monotone voice said that I probably shouldn't say anything but there is one thing that nobody knows about me. At my last job I killed 2 coworkers and didn't get caught and then I sat down. The pilot next to me was laughing so hard he fell backward in his chair.

What a bunch of pussy horseshit that whole thing was.

Fucking win.

I was in an NCO of the Quarter hot seat once and they were grilling me with the same pat questions when one board member asked me, "What's the Air Force's misiion?" I could have expounded upon global aerospace dominance, force projection, serving the end user, customer, zipper suited sun gods, etc. etc, but I replied, "Success in battle, everything else is secondary".

I won.

Posted: 2/24/2011 4:08:09 AM EDT

[#19]

Any more cool S&W retro wheel gun pics?

Posted: 2/24/2011 4:34:46 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Without booze the AF would stop dead in it's tracks...

We were on telephone standby for a Global Shield when I was a wee young pup at Offutt...

No cell phones, so you were stuck at home..this went on for a couple weeks....people were rather pissy, morale sucked...could no go anywhere without calling your supervisor.before going and after arriving..could not even go shopping...

Finally our Capt said it's Friday...go out and have fun they won't do a recall Sat...

Everybody went to Building H (Hams bar right outside Bellevue gate) and got shitfaced....

So when the phone rang Saturday...

We staggered in...when in formation the Capt in blues was "inspecting" a guy puked all over her....projectile vomit into the chest...

So for the rest of the day they piled us into a flatbed truck full of ropes and stanchions & we roped and un roped aircraft after aircraft...puking on the side of the truck, on aircraft tires and all over the taxiways...

I may or may not have tied one on here...

Posted: 2/24/2011 4:50:26 AM EDT

[#21]

Here is another picture I found of a SAC HQ guard, this one in color! Probably late 50's/early 60's vintage.

Posted: 2/24/2011 10:56:16 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Without booze the AF would stop dead in it's tracks...

We were on telephone standby for a Global Shield when I was a wee young pup at Offutt...

No cell phones, so you were stuck at home..this went on for a couple weeks....people were rather pissy, morale sucked...could no go anywhere without calling your supervisor.before going and after arriving..could not even go shopping...

Finally our Capt said it's Friday...go out and have fun they won't do a recall Sat...

Everybody went to Building H (Hams bar right outside Bellevue gate) and got shitfaced....

So when the phone rang Saturday...

We staggered in...when in formation the Capt in blues was "inspecting" a guy puked all over her....projectile vomit into the chest...

So for the rest of the day they piled us into a flatbed truck full of ropes and stanchions & we roped and un roped aircraft after aircraft...puking on the side of the truck, on aircraft tires and all over the taxiways...

I may or may not have tied one on here...

Dang, it's still open....

After a mid shift we would have remount at building H....was a hiding place outside for a key to the side door...and a pitcher on the bar to put "donations" in...

Mummm, have a craving for a Hams puss rocket now.....

Posted: 2/24/2011 12:01:51 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Without booze the AF would stop dead in it's tracks...

We were on telephone standby for a Global Shield when I was a wee young pup at Offutt...

No cell phones, so you were stuck at home..this went on for a couple weeks....people were rather pissy, morale sucked...could no go anywhere without calling your supervisor.before going and after arriving..could not even go shopping...

Finally our Capt said it's Friday...go out and have fun they won't do a recall Sat...

Everybody went to Building H (Hams bar right outside Bellevue gate) and got shitfaced....

So when the phone rang Saturday...

We staggered in...when in formation the Capt in blues was "inspecting" a guy puked all over her....projectile vomit into the chest...

So for the rest of the day they piled us into a flatbed truck full of ropes and stanchions & we roped and un roped aircraft after aircraft...puking on the side of the truck, on aircraft tires and all over the taxiways...

I may or may not have tied one on here...

Dang, it's still open....

After a mid shift we would have remount at building H....was a hiding place outside for a key to the side door...and a pitcher on the bar to put "donations" in...

Mummm, have a craving for a Hams puss rocket now.....

It was still open as of 2008 when I was last there. My parents used to go after getting off alert. Used to go in their flightsuits and "feather the props", ie flipping their nametags upside down, to drink.

Posted: 2/24/2011 3:29:21 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

See you are not that special.

In the AF you have around 50% that are in the military and the other half is in the corporate world. And I’m being very generous with those numbers. Sometimes I think that OIF and OEF are an inconvenience to some people in the AF. Hate to bad mouth the AF that I have put so much time and energy into, but I’m not sure if we know which way to go anymore. I try to "stay my lane"

You mean like the finance office that was closed on Christmas in the Died? Like they had somewhere better to be.

Posted: 2/24/2011 3:50:57 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:

See you are not that special.

In the AF you have around 50% that are in the military and the other half is in the corporate world. And I’m being very generous with those numbers. Sometimes I think that OIF and OEF are an inconvenience to some people in the AF. Hate to bad mouth the AF that I have put so much time and energy into, but I’m not sure if we know which way to go anymore. I try to "stay my lane"

You mean like the finance office that was closed on Christmas in the Died? Like they had somewhere better to be.

Or any of the other base agencies that aren't open beyond Normal Business Hours? I hated that shit when I was flying night lines on my last deployment.

Everything should be open seven days a week and, if there are enough people out there, open long enough so folks on all three shifts (plus us zoomies on screwy non-schedules) can get their business taken care of. It seems that support agencies are only there to support themselves.

Posted: 2/24/2011 4:31:31 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:

See you are not that special.

In the AF you have around 50% that are in the military and the other half is in the corporate world. And I’m being very generous with those numbers. Sometimes I think that OIF and OEF are an inconvenience to some people in the AF. Hate to bad mouth the AF that I have put so much time and energy into, but I’m not sure if we know which way to go anymore. I try to "stay my lane"

You mean like the finance office that was closed on Christmas in the Died? Like they had somewhere better to be.

Or any of the other base agencies that aren't open beyond Normal Business Hours? I hated that shit when I was flying night lines on my last deployment.

Everything should be open seven days a week and, if there are enough people out there, open long enough so folks on all three shifts (plus us zoomies on screwy non-schedules) can get their business taken care of. It seems that support agencies are only there to support themselves.

Yup, I went to the base finance office after coming back from a TDY as a Senior Airman. I got up to the counter and the young female Airman said, "I'm sorry, we're closed for training today as it's a Friday". I look around and see several people chatting on the phone, one guy tidying up his desk, three people sitting in a group drinking coffee, and the section 1st Sgt and Lt. hanging a Christmas banner on the wall.

I ask her how will I get my travel voucher taken care of, she replies, "We always close for training on Fridays, it's even published in The Sentinel!" (that's base paper)

They had one of those puke green log books on the counter that had a "Comments" tag on it. I opened it up and wrote a scathing evaluation of what I was observing and what everyone was doing and left.

An hour later my 1st Sgt calls me, furious, for writing my diatribe in the finance comments book.

I explain to him what was going on and what I was told. His attitude improved drastically and he told me to meet him at finance in 15 minutes.

When I arrived Colonel Ponder, our group commander, and my 1st Sgt were there with an LE troop who unlocked the door. The blinds had been drawn by this time so when we came in the door the looks on the finance weenies faces was priceless.

I got my travel voucher turned in.

Posted: 2/24/2011 4:58:18 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:

See you are not that special.

In the AF you have around 50% that are in the military and the other half is in the corporate world. And I’m being very generous with those numbers. Sometimes I think that OIF and OEF are an inconvenience to some people in the AF. Hate to bad mouth the AF that I have put so much time and energy into, but I’m not sure if we know which way to go anymore. I try to "stay my lane"

You mean like the finance office that was closed on Christmas in the Died? Like they had somewhere better to be.

Or any of the other base agencies that aren't open beyond Normal Business Hours? I hated that shit when I was flying night lines on my last deployment.

Everything should be open seven days a week and, if there are enough people out there, open long enough so folks on all three shifts (plus us zoomies on screwy non-schedules) can get their business taken care of. It seems that support agencies are only there to support themselves.

Yup, I went to the base finance office after coming back from a TDY as a Senior Airman. I got up to the counter and the young female Airman said, "I'm sorry, we're closed for training today as it's a Friday". I look around and see several people chatting on the phone, one guy tidying up his desk, three people sitting in a group drinking coffee, and the section 1st Sgt and Lt. hanging a Christmas banner on the wall.

I ask her how will I get my travel voucher taken care of, she replies, "We always close for training on Fridays, it's even published in The Sentinel!" (that's base paper)

They had one of those puke green log books on the counter that had a "Comments" tag on it. I opened it up and wrote a scathing evaluation of what I was observing and what everyone was doing and left.

An hour later my 1st Sgt calls me, furious, for writing my diatribe in the finance comments book.

I explain to him what was going on and what I was told. His attitude improved drastically and he told me to meet him at finance in 15 minutes.

When I arrived Colonel Ponder, our group commander, and my 1st Sgt were there with an LE troop who unlocked the door. The blinds had been drawn by this time so when we came in the door the looks on the finance weenies faces was priceless.

I got my travel voucher turned in.

Excellent! I hate the damned business hours the support agencies keep on base.

Not everyone can just take off from work and go over to finance/MPF/etc before 1500/1630. I have to take care of crap on my lunch break or do it after work if I can't get permission to leave early.

Support should provide SUPPORT! when it is convenient to their customers, not to them.

Posted: 2/24/2011 5:27:10 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
We stopped at Offutt once a couple years ago.....WOZA how much had changed was unreal....my old dorm was gone...new BX...but the NCO club looked the same...responded to a riot there once & a MSgt had taken keys between his fingers & was swinging at people...

The NCO club is now the community center (the old community center near the end of the runway has been demolished), and the O Club turned into the Patriot "Consolidated" Club.

Posted: 2/24/2011 5:36:31 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I miss the old "Hap Arnold" winged star, as seen on the last photos crewman's flightsuit. I hate the new angled one, looks stoopid. No wonder we don't have any heritage, we keep changing shit.

that is our heritage

It is funny because it's true.

Instead of throwing money around at testing new uniforms and just go to ebay, buy an old Army Air Corps uniform and make it in blue.

I say make them in khaki. I miss my 1505's, even though I wouldn't fit into them any longer.

Posted: 2/24/2011 5:57:56 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Ok, I just realized, after 4100 posts, the New Topic tab. I am showing my ignorance, but if I click on that will it create a new topic thread in GD? Ok, no stupid SP jokes.

Are there any other kind?

Har, har, reminds me of the joke.

Take a new SP Airman, put him naked in a sealed room, with two steel balls. Come back an hour later and one is broken and the other's missing.

It's 3 balls, and the third one is pregnant.

Posted: 2/24/2011 6:14:13 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
AF, keep fixing it till it breaks. When it breaks, hold a staff meeting with a power point presentation and impliment Zero Defect/TQM/AFSO 21 or what ever they are caling it this year. Do nothing with results except use it as a EPR/OER bullet. Repeat with new AF CC.

That would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that it is true.

Yeah, remember QAF in the early 90s? What an abortion.

Oh, dear God, don't bring that up! I had forgotten!

Posted: 2/24/2011 7:35:27 PM EDT

[#32]

USAF 1984-1988
Anyone here remember the 86th SPS or the 377SPG from Ramstein AB West Germany?

Law Enforcement; The USAF issued me the M15 everytime for a side arm. We also carried the GAU M16 with the two position stock and very short barrel. I did qualify with the M79 at Lackland during the EST school they used to put on for us. I think that LE probably got the most exciting things to do, but sometimes I really envied the SPs in the WSA and Flight Line, they seemed to have less contact with the public.

Bomb threats a few shots fired in my general direction and some close calls with international incidents. I wish we could get our own section in the veterans forum for Air Force Cops. I would really like to talk with someone from that era of my life in the 1980s.

Posted: 2/24/2011 7:44:16 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:

See you are not that special.

In the AF you have around 50% that are in the military and the other half is in the corporate world. And I’m being very generous with those numbers. Sometimes I think that OIF and OEF are an inconvenience to some people in the AF. Hate to bad mouth the AF that I have put so much time and energy into, but I’m not sure if we know which way to go anymore. I try to "stay my lane"

You mean like the finance office that was closed on Christmas in the Died? Like they had somewhere better to be.

Or any of the other base agencies that aren't open beyond Normal Business Hours? I hated that shit when I was flying night lines on my last deployment.

Everything should be open seven days a week and, if there are enough people out there, open long enough so folks on all three shifts (plus us zoomies on screwy non-schedules) can get their business taken care of. It seems that support agencies are only there to support themselves.

They do the same here at JBB. They are closed on Sun. Where are they? There is not a lot to do here. How many times can you go to PX? I got a young kid here with me and this is his 1st deployment and I'm trying to rasie him right. Mission 1st, you 2nd. Believe it or not I have to make sure my wearhouse is good to go. Tons of AC parts and MRAP parts that need to be there for the guys that need them. We are 24/7. I want the F16s/AC130s and Predators flying. I want the MRAPs out patroling the wire and towns. If they don't than haji likes to throw rockets and mortars at us. I want those eyes and ears up in the sky and on the ground to kill bad guys and I don't want to be the cause of good guys getting killed. I have to remind people of this every so often. I shouldn't have too.

Posted: 2/24/2011 7:51:15 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
And lets not forget about those pesky duress words....or duress buttons...............

Yeeeees ! Those were always good for a laugh.......

And flight exercises......

Posted: 2/24/2011 8:40:29 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
USAF 1984-1988
Anyone here remember the 86th SPS or the 377SPG from Ramstein AB West Germany?

Law Enforcement; The USAF issued me the M15 everytime for a side arm. We also carried the GAU M16 with the two position stock and very short barrel. I did qualify with the M79 at Lackland during the EST school they used to put on for us. I think that LE probably got the most exciting things to do, but sometimes I really envied the SPs in the WSA and Flight Line, they seemed to have less contact with the public.

Bomb threats a few shots fired in my general direction and some close calls with international incidents. I wish we could get our own section in the veterans forum for Air Force Cops. I would really like to talk with someone from that era of my life in the 1980s.

What a great idea! Were you there when they blew up the O Club?

Posted: 2/24/2011 8:43:33 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

See you are not that special.

In the AF you have around 50% that are in the military and the other half is in the corporate world. And I’m being very generous with those numbers. Sometimes I think that OIF and OEF are an inconvenience to some people in the AF. Hate to bad mouth the AF that I have put so much time and energy into, but I’m not sure if we know which way to go anymore. I try to "stay my lane"

You mean like the finance office that was closed on Christmas in the Died? Like they had somewhere better to be.

Or any of the other base agencies that aren't open beyond Normal Business Hours? I hated that shit when I was flying night lines on my last deployment.

Everything should be open seven days a week and, if there are enough people out there, open long enough so folks on all three shifts (plus us zoomies on screwy non-schedules) can get their business taken care of. It seems that support agencies are only there to support themselves.

They do the same here at JBB. They are closed on Sun. Where are they? There is not a lot to do here. How many times can you go to PX? I got a young kid here with me and this is his 1st deployment and I'm trying to rasie him right. Mission 1st, you 2nd. Believe it or not I have to make sure my wearhouse is good to go. Tons of AC parts and MRAP parts that need to be there for the guys that need them. We are 24/7. I want the F16s/AC130s and Predators flying. I want the MRAPs out patroling the wire and towns. If they don't than haji likes to throw rockets and mortars at us. I want those eyes and ears up in the sky and on the ground to kill bad guys and I don't want to be the cause of good guys getting killed. I have to remind people of this every so often. I shouldn't have too.

You are my fucking HERO! Thank you and good on you for raising the next generation Airmen well.

Posted: 2/24/2011 9:10:45 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:

See you are not that special.

In the AF you have around 50% that are in the military and the other half is in the corporate world. And I’m being very generous with those numbers. Sometimes I think that OIF and OEF are an inconvenience to some people in the AF. Hate to bad mouth the AF that I have put so much time and energy into, but I’m not sure if we know which way to go anymore. I try to "stay my lane"

You mean like the finance office that was closed on Christmas in the Died? Like they had somewhere better to be.

Or any of the other base agencies that aren't open beyond Normal Business Hours? I hated that shit when I was flying night lines on my last deployment.

Everything should be open seven days a week and, if there are enough people out there, open long enough so folks on all three shifts (plus us zoomies on screwy non-schedules) can get their business taken care of. It seems that support agencies are only there to support themselves.

They do the same here at JBB. They are closed on Sun. Where are they? There is not a lot to do here. How many times can you go to PX? I got a young kid here with me and this is his 1st deployment and I'm trying to rasie him right. Mission 1st, you 2nd. Believe it or not I have to make sure my wearhouse is good to go. Tons of AC parts and MRAP parts that need to be there for the guys that need them. We are 24/7. I want the F16s/AC130s and Predators flying. I want the MRAPs out patroling the wire and towns. If they don't than haji likes to throw rockets and mortars at us. I want those eyes and ears up in the sky and on the ground to kill bad guys and I don't want to be the cause of good guys getting killed. I have to remind people of this every so often. I shouldn't have too.

You are my fucking HERO! Thank you and good on you for raising the next generation Airmen well.

I wouldn't say hero but thanks. Its called taking care of your people. Kick them in the ass when they screw up and pat them on the back when they do right. Thread highjack is in progress and I will let the SAC weapon/stories goodness continue. Sorry.

Posted: 2/24/2011 9:10:47 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Yup, I went to the base finance office after coming back from a TDY as a Senior Airman. I got up to the counter and the young female Airman said, "I'm sorry, we're closed for training today as it's a Friday". I look around and see several people chatting on the phone, one guy tidying up his desk, three people sitting in a group drinking coffee, and the section 1st Sgt and Lt. hanging a Christmas banner on the wall.

I ask her how will I get my travel voucher taken care of, she replies, "We always close for training on Fridays, it's even published in The Sentinel!" (that's base paper)

They had one of those puke green log books on the counter that had a "Comments" tag on it. I opened it up and wrote a scathing evaluation of what I was observing and what everyone was doing and left.

An hour later my 1st Sgt calls me, furious, for writing my diatribe in the finance comments book.

I explain to him what was going on and what I was told. His attitude improved drastically and he told me to meet him at finance in 15 minutes.

When I arrived Colonel Ponder, our group commander, and my 1st Sgt were there with an LE troop who unlocked the door. The blinds had been drawn by this time so when we came in the door the looks on the finance weenies faces was priceless.

I got my travel voucher turned in.

Love it!!!

Hated coming in from the field on a Thursday & not able to get shit done on a Friday...happened quite often but no matter how much we complained it never changed. The office weenies were rewarded for working a 9-5 M-T job by having Friday off and to hell with the guys who actually worked & could not get in till Friday.

The clinic does the exact same thing, closes on Friday every now and again...and even now I'm having to adjust my schedual to get into the clinic to pick something up, or get the kids to the Doc....it never changes....

Posted: 2/24/2011 9:14:02 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
We stopped at Offutt once a couple years ago.....WOZA how much had changed was unreal....my old dorm was gone...new BX...but the NCO club looked the same...responded to a riot there once & a MSgt had taken keys between his fingers & was swinging at people...

The NCO club is now the community center (the old community center near the end of the runway has been demolished), and the O Club turned into the Patriot "Consolidated" Club.

The old community center...was that the Airman's club before it became the community center?? All I remember is the Airman's club behind Generals row...

No NCO club any more, but a community center

Had some good times at the NCO club & they had a really good sub shop in the back...

Posted: 2/24/2011 9:17:24 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Yup, I went to the base finance office after coming back from a TDY as a Senior Airman. I got up to the counter and the young female Airman said, "I'm sorry, we're closed for training today as it's a Friday". I look around and see several people chatting on the phone, one guy tidying up his desk, three people sitting in a group drinking coffee, and the section 1st Sgt and Lt. hanging a Christmas banner on the wall.

I ask her how will I get my travel voucher taken care of, she replies, "We always close for training on Fridays, it's even published in The Sentinel!" (that's base paper)

They had one of those puke green log books on the counter that had a "Comments" tag on it. I opened it up and wrote a scathing evaluation of what I was observing and what everyone was doing and left.

An hour later my 1st Sgt calls me, furious, for writing my diatribe in the finance comments book.

I explain to him what was going on and what I was told. His attitude improved drastically and he told me to meet him at finance in 15 minutes.

When I arrived Colonel Ponder, our group commander, and my 1st Sgt were there with an LE troop who unlocked the door. The blinds had been drawn by this time so when we came in the door the looks on the finance weenies faces was priceless.

I got my travel voucher turned in.

Love it!!!

Hated coming in from the field on a Thursday & not able to get shit done on a Friday...happened quite often but no matter how much we complained it never changed. The office weenies were rewarded for working a 9-5 M-T job by having Friday off and to hell with the guys who actually worked & could not get in till Friday.

The clinic does the exact same thing, closes on Friday every now and again...and even now I'm having to adjust my schedual to get into the clinic to pick something up, or get the kids to the Doc....it never changes....

I remember when Warren's base hospital got downgraded to a clinic about 5 years after it had been built as a full service hospital with maternity ward, cafeteria, surgey, etc.

The day after they made it into a clinic, and the clinic commander had stated they would now be able to offer MORE services, a SSgt dropped dead walking out the front door after an appointment.

Posted: 2/24/2011 9:24:29 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

They do the same here at JBB. They are closed on Sun. Where are they? There is not a lot to do here. How many times can you go to PX? I got a young kid here with me and this is his 1st deployment and I'm trying to rasie him right. Mission 1st, you 2nd. Believe it or not I have to make sure my wearhouse is good to go. Tons of AC parts and MRAP parts that need to be there for the guys that need them. We are 24/7. I want the F16s/AC130s and Predators flying. I want the MRAPs out patroling the wire and towns. If they don't than haji likes to throw rockets and mortars at us. I want those eyes and ears up in the sky and on the ground to kill bad guys and I don't want to be the cause of good guys getting killed. I have to remind people of this every so often. I shouldn't have too.

Rock on, that's awesome!!!

When I was in the UAE finance was only open 4 hours a day, 3 days a week. Was told the finance guy had other responsibilities, but never saw him doing anything.....same with the E9 who was our DP guy, he almost never was in the office & always fiddle fucking around someplace & he did nothing but bitch when you needed something...

But we were working 6 on, 1 off 24/7.....while everybody else lounged around & got drunk on Friday or Sat night....However, when they had the Christmas party somebody had a VCR tape in the thermal camera up in the tower...and somehow it ended up pointed at the party/pool....and the Chaplin and base Commander were recorded drunk and doing things they did not want on tape....

For some reason after that we got more down time, services was more friendly to the shift worker when we went in for our 2 authorized beers... and they lifted the off base restriction...

Posted: 2/24/2011 9:27:13 PM EDT

[#42]

This is a picture of some of the holsters and armbands my late father used when he was in the USAF. For about the first 13-14 years out of 20 years in (1951-1971) he was in the Air Police. The S&W M15 is mine.

Posted: 2/24/2011 9:31:09 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
I remember when Warren's base hospital got downgraded to a clinic about 5 years after it had been built as a full service hospital with maternity ward, cafeteria, surgey, etc.

The day after they made it into a clinic, and the clinic commander had stated they would now be able to offer MORE services, a SSgt dropped dead walking out the front door after an appointment.

All I remember is it as a clinic, but they did have what they called a "ER" when we 1st got to FE....and they did run ambulances out of it..but then it seems like they turned it into flight medicine or something like that...

However, the local Ambulance service picked up the entire base, just a few days later somebody had a MI in the BX outside the barber shop (if I remember right) and the ambulance got lost...and the guy died...

AMR still has issues with the base....due to security concerns...not all of em justifiable or founded, but what the hell do I know about base security

Least they have somebody working @ AMR who lives on base...and was a guard cop & she's got a clue or 4

Posted: 2/24/2011 9:32:56 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
This is a picture of some of the holsters and armbands my late father used when he was in the USAF. For about the first 13-14 years out of 20 years in (1951-1971) he was in the Air Police. The S&W M15 is mine.

http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr27/lakecity66/AP_1.jpg

Love the picture, have never seen those arm bands before, sweet collection!!!!!

I really want to find a S&W M15

Posted: 2/24/2011 9:50:47 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
USAF 1984-1988
Anyone here remember the 86th SPS or the 377SPG from Ramstein AB West Germany?

Law Enforcement; The USAF issued me the M15 everytime for a side arm. We also carried the GAU M16 with the two position stock and very short barrel. I did qualify with the M79 at Lackland during the EST school they used to put on for us. I think that LE probably got the most exciting things to do, but sometimes I really envied the SPs in the WSA and Flight Line, they seemed to have less contact with the public.

Bomb threats a few shots fired in my general direction and some close calls with international incidents. I wish we could get our own section in the veterans forum for Air Force Cops. I would really like to talk with someone from that era of my life in the 1980s.

What a great idea! Were you there when they blew up the O Club?

The Red Army Faction blew up the Officer's Club at Rhein Main AB while I was at Ramstein. We did have a lot of bomb threats in and around the Officer's Club, and unspecified threats in the area where we kept our P.O. Boxes. In 1981, they detonated a car bomb in front of USAFE headquarters. We had some close calls there and probably saw a bunch of RAF conducting reconnaisance but did not realize it. I often thought it was crazy that we allowed anyone but American personnel on base.

I thought it was crazy in Europe, but soon realized that the Phillipines was something of a rarer situation I thought I would never see. I wish I could read more about the cops there that rode horse back patrols around Clark AB. I know that a few died on duty while protecting the peremiter. The fun part of Ramstein included the SMLM Soviet Military Liason Mission that would show up in areas they were not supposed to during alerts. They killed a U.S. Major doing the same thing in East Germany theyear I arrived at Ramstein AB. I still have the RAF wanted poster in my gun cabinet.

Posted: 2/24/2011 9:57:46 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
USAF 1984-1988
Anyone here remember the 86th SPS or the 377SPG from Ramstein AB West Germany?

Law Enforcement; The USAF issued me the M15 everytime for a side arm. We also carried the GAU M16 with the two position stock and very short barrel. I did qualify with the M79 at Lackland during the EST school they used to put on for us. I think that LE probably got the most exciting things to do, but sometimes I really envied the SPs in the WSA and Flight Line, they seemed to have less contact with the public.

Bomb threats a few shots fired in my general direction and some close calls with international incidents. I wish we could get our own section in the veterans forum for Air Force Cops. I would really like to talk with someone from that era of my life in the 1980s.

What a great idea! Were you there when they blew up the O Club?

The Red Army Faction blew up the Officer's Club at Rhein Main AB while I was at Ramstein. We did have a lot of bomb threats in and around the Officer's Club, and unspecified threats in the area where we kept our P.O. Boxes. In 1981, they detonated a car bomb in front of USAFE headquarters. We had some close calls there and probably saw a bunch of RAF conducting reconnaisance but did not realize it. I often thought it was crazy that we allowed anyone but American personnel on base.

I thought it was crazy in Europe, but soon realized that the Phillipines was something of a rarer situation I thought I would never see. I wish I could read more about the cops there that rode horse back patrols around Clark AB. I know that a few died on duty while protecting the peremiter. The fun part of Ramstein included the SMLM Soviet Military Liason Mission that would show up in areas they were not supposed to during alerts. They killed a U.S. Major doing the same thing in East Germany theyear I arrived at Ramstein AB. I still have the RAF wanted poster in my gun cabinet.

Just vaguely remember car bombings in Europe, nothing much in any detail.

Did you ever make it to the PI, I was TDY to Clark & Crow Valley a few times in 89 and 90 & loved it.

Posted: 2/24/2011 10:39:01 PM EDT

[#47]

I was at RAF Bentwaters from 1985 to 1989, I remember some of those incidents from the 1980's. We probably have some mutual friends from back then. USAFE Was the shit. Thank god I was never stationed at Lakenheath, haahha, they were failing shit left and right, and lets not forget about that day some CND wacko's broke into the WSA in 1987. That was a joy that even affected us. I was a BISS operator, so I even got my ass chewed for that one, even though I was at another fucking base ! I think my favorite incident was when some anti nuke protesters (or off duty cops! hahhahah) wrapped a bunch of red and white ribbon around an RF-4C at RAF Alconbury, turning it into a giant candy cane, if my memory is correct, on Christmas eve, or day. LoL.

Posted: 2/24/2011 10:46:25 PM EDT

[#48]

This is a pretty good thread. It takes away some of the pampered veil that most of us non-blue suiters see you guys through.

Posted: 2/25/2011 12:14:29 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
I was at RAF Bentwaters from 1985 to 1989, I remember some of those incidents from the 1980's. We probably have some mutual friends from back then. USAFE Was the shit. Thank god I was never stationed at Lakenheath, haahha, they were failing shit left and right, and lets not forget about that day some CND wacko's broke into the WSA in 1987. That was a joy that even affected us. I was a BISS operator, so I even got my ass chewed for that one, even though I was at another fucking base ! I think my favorite incident was when some anti nuke protesters (or off duty cops! hahhahah) wrapped a bunch of red and white ribbon around an RF-4C at RAF Alconbury, turning it into a giant candy cane, if my memory is correct, on Christmas eve, or day. LoL.

I remember stories of what yall painted the aircraft ordnance when we bombed Lybia in 1986. The problem as I understood was that not all of the ordnance got used and there was a great deal of angst over the vandalism. We worked about a couple or three months straight seven days a week after the raid on Lybia. One of the guys at Ramstein claimed to be at that base in England when the UFO landed in the early eighties. I did get TDY to Wallace AS in the PI late in 1987 and early 1988. They issued us brand new M16s from 1968 out of a crate complete with red muzzle protectors over the open birdcage three pronged flash suppressors.

There are lots of things I would like to discuss with other former cops and see if their experiences are familliar. I would not trade it for anything and remain proud of what we all did. It is a shame we don't have the Security Police like we used to now. Do you still have your Beret with USAFE Crest? I only have one with a subdued SAC Crest pin from my last duty station Castle AFB in Ca.
"Jet Noise!"

Posted: 2/25/2011 12:52:08 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:
USAF 1984-1988
Anyone here remember the 86th SPS or the 377SPG from Ramstein AB West Germany?

Law Enforcement; The USAF issued me the M15 everytime for a side arm. We also carried the GAU M16 with the two position stock and very short barrel. I did qualify with the M79 at Lackland during the EST school they used to put on for us. I think that LE probably got the most exciting things to do, but sometimes I really envied the SPs in the WSA and Flight Line, they seemed to have less contact with the public.

Bomb threats a few shots fired in my general direction and some close calls with international incidents. I wish we could get our own section in the veterans forum for Air Force Cops. I would really like to talk with someone from that era of my life in the 1980s.

What a great idea! Were you there when they blew up the O Club?

The Red Army Faction blew up the Officer's Club at Rhein Main AB while I was at Ramstein. We did have a lot of bomb threats in and around the Officer's Club, and unspecified threats in the area where we kept our P.O. Boxes. In 1981, they detonated a car bomb in front of USAFE headquarters. We had some close calls there and probably saw a bunch of RAF conducting reconnaisance but did not realize it. I often thought it was crazy that we allowed anyone but American personnel on base.

I thought it was crazy in Europe, but soon realized that the Phillipines was something of a rarer situation I thought I would never see. I wish I could read more about the cops there that rode horse back patrols around Clark AB. I know that a few died on duty while protecting the peremiter. The fun part of Ramstein included the SMLM Soviet Military Liason Mission that would show up in areas they were not supposed to during alerts. They killed a U.S. Major doing the same thing in East Germany theyear I arrived at Ramstein AB. I still have the RAF wanted poster in my gun cabinet.

Yup, he was peeking into the window of a tank shed and the sentry shot him. Then they prevented his fellow officers and medics from attending to him for hours. They left him to die on the ground.

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