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Posted: 4/20/2018 9:33:47 PM EDT
[#1]
I used my m4a1 on full auto during a complex ambush in helmond
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Posted: 4/20/2018 9:37:43 PM EDT
[#2]
I just read a book by a Marine sniper in Vietnam. He used his M14 on full auto a lot.
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Posted: 4/20/2018 9:47:25 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's suppressive fire and is exactly what the SAW is for. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Maybe if they have an endless supply of ammo on hand. We tried three round burst at the range and you can't hit shit. Saw a video of a dude wasting 800 rounds on a SAW shooting at a mountain and then ask the other dude for more ammo. What kind of ass whoopin do you give those guys. Training received from Special Forces, there were two scenarios when we would use F/A: Reacting to a near ambush as we charged through the ambushing force and when conducting an Australian "Peel" to break contact, and then it was one magazine per man. On the command "PEEL", trail man would run back up the trail and set up a Claymore pointed toward the enemy, lead man would fire a magazine and peel off to the left, next man would dump a mag, same thing, until they were all running past the guy with the Claymore and the last guy would yell "Last Man" and the Claymore guy would start running and set the Claymore off as he ran. Again, this was the bad old days when even Guard SF units still had M16A1's and no SAW's (and still using M60's). ETA: Talking to a buddy who was Force Recon in the same time frame, they also trained those same tactics, with semi the rest of the time. |
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Posted: 4/20/2018 10:15:04 PM EDT
[#4]
I dunno man. Have you watched 12 Strong? All full auto all day. I tend to trust the movies bro.
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Posted: 4/20/2018 10:26:20 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is there actually a Rank, MOS or title of "Commando" in the US military??? Or is it more of just a nick name for bad asses, Operators or some shit??? Marine Raiders, Delta/CAG, and SEAL's might be called Commandos, too; the term applies to any autonomous SF unit that operates behind enemy lines. But I doubt the US has any "official" commando designation, other than something company or battalion level. |
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Posted: 4/20/2018 10:42:48 PM EDT
[#6]
FA
 13 Hours: The Secret Soldiers of Benghazi - Last Battle Scene (1080p) FR |
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Posted: 4/20/2018 10:52:48 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So "going commando" is going to mean something other than free-balling now? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think OP is trying to bring back the word "Commandos" to describe special ops type people. So then people can say "Commando as fuck" |
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Posted: 4/20/2018 11:04:29 PM EDT
[#8]
While in Basic, they taught us to engage (from cover) using slow, deliberate single fire at 300 meters.
You would then increase your rate of fire at 150 meters. At 75 meters, you would switch to full auto and present a “wall of lead” to the Soviet banzai attack. Good times. |
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Posted: 4/20/2018 11:21:10 PM EDT
[#9]
I used burst on the 300m pop up range once. I put two in the 100m target and the third in the 150m target. I figured that crap was garbage then and there.
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Posted: 4/21/2018 2:50:47 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am not an expert, but I believe a lot of the L1A1 SLR rifles issued in various Commonwealth countries were semi only. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I remember reading about one of the African conflicts, where one side did not have great resupply, so they modified their troopsFAL's to semi only, and their combat effectiveness went up. Not sure where I read that, though. Don't think they modified anything it was just a standing order |
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Posted: 4/21/2018 4:41:22 AM EDT
[#11]
 Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 4/21/2018 5:53:08 AM EDT
[#12]
violence of action
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Posted: 4/21/2018 6:39:53 AM EDT
[#13]
OP, of course full auto is used. Just ask any young 11B, 03B, Ranger or SEAL. There's plenty of times to dump 450-600 rpm into something or someone. They usually involve ambushes, break contact, suppressive fire, vehicle stops, and other missions that require the target to be fucked up quickly with little regard for collateral damage.
As for the M4 yes, occasionally as it's an option though not as a rule particularly in a non-permissive scenario where resupply may be hours/days away. Another aspect is human nature under life threatening stress and the tendency to lean on a trigger to solve a problem whereas other solutions might be more effective. One of the AAR comments out of Princess Gate as well as the Moluccan train hijacking in Holland (I know, I'm dating myself but the it still applies) was that the SAS and BBE respectively used MP-5s on auto as a primary. The both practiced 2-3 bursts using trigger manipulation in training but in those Ops guys were inadvertently doing mag dumps because of stress. Not a good thing in a hostage rescue scenario. Here's an article on the BBE train take down and the dutch being sued for excessive force I worked with 2 Dutch guys that were on that op and both said that had no recollection of doing mag dumps other than they were dry quicker than they should have been. According to the lawyers for the six claimants, including now-64-year-old surviving hijacker Junus Ririmasse, hollow point bullets were used during the raid, and the six hijackers who were killed suffered a combined number of 144 gunshot wounds.
The other claimants are relatives of five hijackers -- including a woman -- who were killed, some apparently executed while no longer able to resist: Hans Papilaja, Hansina Uktolseja, Ronnie Lumalessil, Dominggus Rumamory and Matheus Tuny. |
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Posted: 4/21/2018 7:07:49 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm commando right now, but that word, how I use it, I do not think it means what you think it means. |
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Posted: 4/21/2018 7:42:46 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP, of course full auto is used. Just ask any young 11B, 03B, Ranger or SEAL. There's plenty of times to dump 450-600 rpm into something or someone. They usually involve ambushes, break contact, suppressive fire, vehicle stops, and other missions that require the target to be fucked up quickly with little regard for collateral damage. As for the M4 yes, occasionally as it's an option though not as a rule particularly in a non-permissive scenario where resupply may be hours/days away. Another aspect is human nature under life threatening stress and the tendency to lean on a trigger to solve a problem whereas other solutions might be more effective. One of the AAR comments out of Princess Gate as well as the Moluccan train hijacking in Holland (I know, I'm dating myself but the it still applies) was that the SAS and BBE respectively used MP-5s on auto as a primary. The both practiced 2-3 bursts using trigger manipulation in training but in those Ops guys were inadvertently doing mag dumps because of stress. Not a good thing in a hostage rescue scenario. Here's an article on the BBE train take down and the dutch being sued for excessive force I worked with 2 Dutch guys that were on that op and both said that had no recollection of doing mag dumps other than they were dry quicker than they should have been. Bunch of guys and some women from an Indonesian Island the Dutch promised indipendance to and then fucked over were pissed and started hijacking trains with FA Uzi's (despite strict gun control oif course) By all acounts it was a spray fest with the odd anchor shot for suviving hostage takers. The Big Lulz are that Dutch gun grabber spupreme Prime minister van Acht Always denied there was a hail of bullets. Fuck the hostage takers AND fuck gun grabber Dries van Acht  
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Posted: 4/21/2018 8:20:30 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah yes the Molukken (English?) train hostage sitation. Bunch of guys and some women from an Indonesian Island the Dutch promised indipendance to and then fucked over were pissed and started hijacking trains with FA Uzi's (despite strict gun control oif course) By all acounts it was a spray fest with the odd anchor shot for suviving hostage takers. The Big Lulz are that Dutch gun grabber spupreme Prime minister van Acht Always denied there was a hail of bullets. Fuck the hostage takers AND fuck gun grabber Dries van Acht https://www.assercourant.nl/pub/media/NDk1MzQ3XzU0ZTQ4MjZiZTg1ZTAyMjg3OWRhYzEzYjQyMWJmZGZlZGVmZmMyZjVfNjIweEMzMTgyeDE3ODkrMCsyMDc.jpg https://nos.nl/data/image/2017/02/01/350478/xxl.jpg Are you Dutch? I had "sister" relationship with the BBE for many years. Lots of good times in Den Helder and Doorn. |
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Posted: 4/21/2018 9:28:09 AM EDT
[#17]
In Franklin Miller's book, when he was first assigned to a recon platoon, he specifically states he was taught that if you have a rapidly moving target close range in the jungle, dont lead and fire semi, 'trap' the target by firing a short burst in front and let the target run into the fire. That is precisely what he did. But we are talking well less then 25meters.
In WWII in the jungle, fleeting targets, partially exposed targets, maybe a muzzleblast or flash at 50 feet where you cant see the target, or where he is, or if he is moving, then a BAR or Bren in short bursts, from the shoulder, was a TTP. There is no point in firing one round at a time as you arent really sure where the target is, and if you want to fire 5-10 rounds, shoot quickjly and then get down before someone does the same to you. .30 was better then SMG as it would plow through vegetation. In one of the old marksmanship books from the 1980s it was taught that bursts can be uesful if you wnat to suppress the enemy but need to limit your exposure, if the ranges are really close. I am thinking of terrain like this, and situations like this. link Again, overwhelmingly a bad idea in todays world, in today's mission sets. In some situations its not invalid. |
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Posted: 4/21/2018 9:30:13 AM EDT
[#18]
The quote was by Rob O'Neill.
He said in 400 missions he never used full auto. Carolla misinterpreted a few things O'Neill said, but not that. |
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Posted: 4/21/2018 9:36:57 AM EDT
[#19]
So full auto has limited application in killing people compared to semi auto.
We should all be drilling 3rd pin holes for the chrillens. |
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Posted: 4/21/2018 9:44:57 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The quote was by Rob O'Neill. He said in 400 missions he never used full auto. Carolla misinterpreted a few things O'Neill, said, but not that. Who the fuck counts anyway? |
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Posted: 4/21/2018 10:03:23 AM EDT
[#21]
I like how on Arfcom - the right answer gets posted 2-3 times per page & people post/quote it like it’s fresh on the last page.
I’ve been spending too much time here + a majority of Arfcom are 
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Posted: 4/21/2018 10:22:54 AM EDT
[#22]
Full auto works great WITH a bump stock.
It doubles your rate of fire...................
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Posted: 4/21/2018 10:33:33 AM EDT
[#23]
wrng thread
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Posted: 4/21/2018 12:13:28 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think OP is trying to bring back the word "Commandos" to describe special ops type people. So then people can say "Commando as fuck" |
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Posted: 4/21/2018 12:25:27 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Originates with French special forces, IIRC. Maritime/airborne counter-terror units. Marine Raiders, Delta/CAG, and SEAL's might be called Commandos, too; the term applies to any autonomous SF unit that operates behind enemy lines. But I doubt the US has any "official" commando designation, other than something company or battalion level. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is there actually a Rank, MOS or title of "Commando" in the US military??? Or is it more of just a nick name for bad asses, Operators or some shit??? Marine Raiders, Delta/CAG, and SEAL's might be called Commandos, too; the term applies to any autonomous SF unit that operates behind enemy lines. But I doubt the US has any "official" commando designation, other than something company or battalion level. Commando is a Boer term for Militia. Winston Churchill(having been impressed by them) adopted the term for his concept of "Set Europe ablaze" in the early days of WW2. |
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Posted: 4/21/2018 12:30:12 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Incorrect. Commando is a Boer term for Militia. Winston Churchill(having been impressed by them) adopted the term for his concept of "Set Europe ablaze" in the early days of WW2. 
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Posted: 4/21/2018 12:48:24 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Incorrect. Commando is a Boer term for Militia. Winston Churchill(having been impressed by them) adopted the term for his concept of "Set Europe ablaze" in the early days of WW2. |
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Posted: 4/21/2018 12:58:54 PM EDT
[#28]
Some Mexican food makes me go into full auto...
Oh, you mean on a weapon? |
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Posted: 4/21/2018 1:05:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IIRC, the hostages had been consolidated in a car and the engine was manned by bad guys, hence the spray fest in those pics. The assault opened with a Dutch F-4 (?) flying about 50' off the deck over the train. There was a school house hostage situation that had to be simultaneously executed as well. Those guys used a M113 to breach the school room wall. The assault force had to stage in a ditch by the school and couldn't rotate during daylight hours. They were dressed in assault kit and most were hypo-thermic because of rain and cold while waiting in that ditch. I don't miss those days. Are you Dutch? I had "sister" relationship with the BBE for many years. Lots of good times in Den Helder and Doorn. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Ah yes the Molukken (English?) train hostage sitation. Bunch of guys and some women from an Indonesian Island the Dutch promised indipendance to and then fucked over were pissed and started hijacking trains with FA Uzi's (despite strict gun control oif course) By all acounts it was a spray fest with the odd anchor shot for suviving hostage takers. The Big Lulz are that Dutch gun grabber spupreme Prime minister van Acht Always denied there was a hail of bullets. Fuck the hostage takers AND fuck gun grabber Dries van Acht https://www.assercourant.nl/pub/media/NDk1MzQ3XzU0ZTQ4MjZiZTg1ZTAyMjg3OWRhYzEzYjQyMWJmZGZlZGVmZmMyZjVfNjIweEMzMTgyeDE3ODkrMCsyMDc.jpg https://nos.nl/data/image/2017/02/01/350478/xxl.jpg Are you Dutch? I had "sister" relationship with the BBE for many years. Lots of good times in Den Helder and Doorn. Was a baby and not living here during 'De Punt' so all the info is basically from news after the fact. Going off old footage they used a Star Fighter with afterburner 
The Dutch PM at the time Dries van Agt is one of the countries biggest asshole gun grabbers. And a lot of BS directed at the BBE was because he tried play down the amount of violence used when the pics show something different. The Dutch left keep bringing up the violece subject but neglect the fact that scumbag bad guys took hostages. The Dutch right support the BBE's (IMOas well) good shoot but neglect the fact that the Dutch.gov betrayed those islanders who helped the Dutch agianst Indonesia by selling them out to Indonesia. |
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Posted: 4/21/2018 8:32:08 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah yes the Molukken (English?) train hostage sitation. Bunch of guys and some women from an Indonesian Island the Dutch promised indipendance to and then fucked over were pissed and started hijacking trains with FA Uzi's (despite strict gun control oif course) By all acounts it was a spray fest with the odd anchor shot for suviving hostage takers. The Big Lulz are that Dutch gun grabber spupreme Prime minister van Acht Always denied there was a hail of bullets. Fuck the hostage takers AND fuck gun grabber Dries van Acht https://www.assercourant.nl/pub/media/NDk1MzQ3XzU0ZTQ4MjZiZTg1ZTAyMjg3OWRhYzEzYjQyMWJmZGZlZGVmZmMyZjVfNjIweEMzMTgyeDE3ODkrMCsyMDc.jpg https://nos.nl/data/image/2017/02/01/350478/xxl.jpg |
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Posted: 4/21/2018 9:57:04 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In 400 missions, how many times did he not fire his weapon at all? Who the fuck counts anyway? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The quote was by Rob O'Neill. He said in 400 missions he never used full auto. Carolla misinterpreted a few things O'Neill, said, but not that. Who the fuck counts anyway? Anyone who writes their own deployment awards |
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Posted: 4/21/2018 10:00:22 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Guys who drive log packs and seals. Anyone who writes their own deployment awards |
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Posted: 4/22/2018 12:05:22 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting to see how the assault rifle concept has changed over the years, from people screaming that the A2's 3rd burst would get you kilt on the streets, had to have real full auto, to these days where a semi-only FCG would be just fine. |
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Posted: 4/22/2018 12:12:20 AM EDT
[#34]
I went FA during NTC back in the day... Does that count?
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Posted: 4/22/2018 12:30:30 AM EDT
[#35]
Time and place for everything. The time and place is most often handled by a belt-fed, or several.
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Posted: 4/22/2018 12:35:39 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Time and place for everything. The time and place is most often handled by a belt-fed, or several. |
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Posted: 4/22/2018 12:39:13 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Will you tell me more next time I’m sitting at your feet? I love your stories. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Time and place for everything. The time and place is most often handled by a belt-fed, or several. 
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Posted: 4/22/2018 12:43:15 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know I won't, angel. |
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Posted: 4/22/2018 12:57:35 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Going "Commando" sounds better than going "Operator". So there's that. And regarding talcum powder in the jeans, didn't California decide that stuff gives you ass cancer?
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Posted: 4/22/2018 1:08:57 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is that anything like "going regimental"? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm commando right now, but that word, how I use it, I do not think it means what you think it means. 
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Posted: 4/22/2018 1:14:57 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote History |
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Posted: 4/22/2018 1:16:27 AM EDT
[#42]
FA works great if you train with it for the times it works best.
IMHO the whole "FA doesn't get used by professionals because it's inaccurate" comes from cold warriors trying to sound like sage white bearded lore masters using vague examples of Vietnam statistics about "87 billion rounds per kill". A lot of dudes in my Bn started using 3 round burst at VCP's and at runners. Shit worked as intended. |
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Posted: 4/22/2018 1:28:36 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fuck, I have no idea how many "missions" I did. 3 or 4 a week on average for 2 years I guess. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Guys who drive log packs and seals. Anyone who writes their own deployment awards I dunno. I think maybe it's just semantics. I don't really think of it in terms of numbers either. Either way the only time I fired my personal weapon was during qual at the FOB. No idea about full auto although I think it's grossly overrepresented in films and perception. |
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Posted: 4/22/2018 1:42:15 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But they use full auto all the time in movies like Heat & on TV |
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Posted: 4/22/2018 1:49:13 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've always wondered why semi auto is extremely rare. I think I figured it out. The gun suppliers in Hollywood are trying to justify their special licenses that allow them to own such weapons. With real firearms becoming more and more scarce in movies as they're replaced by props with special CGI effects I don't think it will let up either. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
But they use full auto all the time in movies like Heat & on TV I can picture I scene where Jason is allowing a crew of illegal immigrants cuckold his wife and has to defend the lot against an overbearing racist white police chief. While Jason is on "cleanup duty" near the end of the fiesta (as his guests call it) the cops break in illegally and he repels the assault with the SALT. |
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Posted: 4/22/2018 1:55:45 AM EDT
[#46]
Never heard of it used.
As a frame of reference, my 300 man unit got a PUC. |
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Posted: 4/22/2018 10:42:08 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Mission" makes it sound like operation market garden. I guess technically I have a hundred or more missions under my belt considering I patrolled in Iraq 4 times or more a week for like 14 months. I never really consider it a mission though, nor did I keep track. I call them patrols. I guess ide consider a raid a mission. Maybe he had 400 of those considering he was a SEAL. I dunno. I think maybe it's just semantics. I don't really think of it in terms of numbers either. Either way the only time I fired my personal weapon was during qual at the FOB. No idea about full auto although I think it's grossly overrepresented in films and perception. Thats impressive. In a totally, "That would fucking suck" |
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Posted: 4/22/2018 10:43:40 AM EDT
[#48]
Full auto has its uses.
Burst is a poor substitute. |
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Posted: 4/22/2018 10:45:33 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
in my 4 years in the Army i never (outside of burning through ammo at the end of a range session) put my selector all the way back. 
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Posted: 4/22/2018 10:52:38 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In 400 missions, how many times did he not fire his weapon at all? Who the fuck counts anyway? |
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