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Posted: 4/24/2018 9:03:08 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dude, it is an accounting thing. There is building depression, facility operations costs, and overhead and support. It really adds up fast. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Average teacher pay in Arizona is about $48,000. Average classroom spending in Arizona is about $150,000. Where does the extra $100,000 go, and how much more is needed? |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 9:03:53 PM EST
[#2]
The teachers are just a bunch of FSA/gov't employees who want to steal from and exploit the taxpayer. Public schools are stupid anyways.
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Posted: 4/24/2018 9:04:25 PM EST
[#3]
Charter teachers do not have to have state certification. Public school teachers do.
BUT... If public school teachers engage in a work-action (strike), their certification can be cancelled. (I heard this on the radio, so it must be true.) Walk. Go ahead. And let's see what happens. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 9:06:40 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same. I'm genuinely curious about how they pay charter school teachers vs public. Do charters follow more of a free market model? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My kids charter school is not closing. Don't know what they pay their teachers vs. City districts. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 9:07:23 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Charter teachers do not have to have state certification. Public school teachers do. BUT... If public school teachers engage in a work-action (strike), their certification can be cancelled. (I heard this on the radio, so it must be true.) Walk. Go ahead. And let's see what happens. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 9:07:31 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am all for improving the education system in this state. It is ranked dead last year after year, but to piss off parents and leave the kids high and dry is not the way to do it. The governor agreed to their demands and they are still striking. They won’t rest until they turn this state blue and destroy it. The administrators are activists themselves and have been fined numerous times for shady practices and implementation of propaganda classes that had zero educational merit. They way to improve the schools are to use the money they have wisely. This country has been producing the most brilliant minds in the world without smart boards and the internet. The ring leader of the activist group that is leading this strike is a straight socialist and has been hear numerous times saying they want to make it as painful as possible. The governor has agreed to the demands. What else is there to do? They want him out and are using the kids and teachers to do it and it is despicable Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The 'demands'. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/40084/Screenshot_from_2018-04-24_20-51-01-524899.JPG The ring leader of the activist group that is leading this strike is a straight socialist and has been hear numerous times saying they want to make it as painful as possible. The governor has agreed to the demands. What else is there to do? They want him out and are using the kids and teachers to do it and it is despicable |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 9:18:10 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How dare people ask to be paid more!  Public sector unions are a cancer and need to go. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 9:20:35 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am all for improving the education system in this state. It is ranked dead last year after year, but to piss off parents and leave the kids high and dry is not the way to do it. The governor agreed to their demands and they are still striking. They won’t rest until they turn this state blue and destroy it. The administrators are activists themselves and have been fined numerous times for shady practices and implementation of propaganda classes that had zero educational merit. They way to improve the schools are to use the money they have wisely. This country has been producing the most brilliant minds in the world without smart boards and the internet. The ring leader of the activist group that is leading this strike is a straight socialist and has been hear numerous times saying they want to make it as painful as possible. The governor has agreed to the demands. What else is there to do? They want him out and are using the kids and teachers to do it and it is despicable Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The 'demands'. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/40084/Screenshot_from_2018-04-24_20-51-01-524899.JPG The ring leader of the activist group that is leading this strike is a straight socialist and has been hear numerous times saying they want to make it as painful as possible. The governor has agreed to the demands. What else is there to do? They want him out and are using the kids and teachers to do it and it is despicable |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 9:27:04 PM EST
[#9]
We had a meeting last week about this whole walkout thing in Colorado on Friday. If any teachers go they have to take a personal leave day or be docked pay. The other teachers want us to wear some T shirt or something to stand in solidarity with the ones in Denver. They also want us to have our classes write a letter to the state legislature about increasing school funding in the state. I'm wearing my normal clothes and I refuse to have my classes write a letter to the legislature. I hate the idea of me taking my class time to have kids write letters for an adult agenda. I don't care if the other teachers want to take a personal day to go to Denver. If they got the days, that's their choice. I got a job to do, and I'm going to do it.
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Posted: 4/24/2018 9:32:54 PM EST
[#10]
Wife is a school teacher, not a member of the teacher union, she did even vote on the walkout, the majority of her fellow teachers at the school who voted rejected the walkout. In her district only 3 out of 12 schools had a majority of the teachers vote to walkout, however the superintendent decided that all of the schools will close.
My wife will be effectively locked out of the school during the walkout, she is not allowed on campus during school hours while the walkout is occurring. These school districts want this walkout to happen, total cash grab, hope it blows up in their face. So glad wife will be teaching next year at a charter school, these public schools are way political, they do not have kids best interests in heart. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 9:40:14 PM EST
[#11]
Funny how all the teachers pushing for this are all under 25, they can’t have been teaching very long.
Add to that they recently signed their contracts so they knew darn well what they were getting into. Top it off with the fellow promoting this is a 23 year old transplant from Chicago, and you can imagine what their real motivation is. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 9:41:17 PM EST
[#12]
Friend of ours is an elementary school teacher and bitches about her pay constantly. Did she not understand what she was getting herself into?
She’s also a liberal hack that loves playing the victim card for everyone and everything, so.... |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 9:45:58 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My kids are out Thursday through Monday most likely, with Tuesday possible. I've been in the "free market rules" category on this one. Though I will say this: A couple I talked to yesterday, both teachers in the Dysart school district, told me they each bring home about $1500 a month. That kinda changed my standpoint on it. I can barely stand my own kids half the time, fuck dealing with everyone else's for $375 a week. ETA: I know there's more "payoff" in teaching than just the paycheck, though I doubt those teachers can afford to live out here. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 9:47:37 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wife works at one of the elementary schools, not sure where the 48 k average comes from as the highest paid is at 39 outside of admin staff. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 9:49:22 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can't speak for the person you quoted, but when my wife was a teacher, she was required to 10 months a year, and always taught summer school. So she worked 11 months for 11 months of pay. Maybe she teaches in Japan or something. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 9:49:58 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It comes from folks who make assumptions based on the ridiculous pay administration gets. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 9:56:58 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honestly I kept telling her to quit. I can get her a job at almost double where I work but she still seems to like teaching. That said, she is still on child care leave with our newborn so she doesn’t have to deal with this until next month. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 9:59:32 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have no problem saying teachers down here deserve more money. As a parent of two elementary school children and another in costly preschool, I donate at least $200 in supplies to all of my kids teachers. All the other parents do the same. We have to fork out dough all year long for various projects and PTA fundraisers. The school is nice, the best in the state, well staffed with good people and yet teachers only make $35K. I am more than happy for teachers advocating for more pay, but not by turning your backs on the kids and wait until very last minute to tell everyone Your schools pay scale is public record. Look it up. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 10:01:27 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am all for improving the education system in this state. It is ranked dead last year after year, but to piss off parents and leave the kids high and dry is not the way to do it. The governor agreed to their demands and they are still striking. They won’t rest until they turn this state blue and destroy it. The administrators are activists themselves and have been fined numerous times for shady practices and implementation of propaganda classes that had zero educational merit. They way to improve the schools are to use the money they have wisely. This country has been producing the most brilliant minds in the world without smart boards and the internet. The ring leader of the activist group that is leading this strike is a straight socialist and has been hear numerous times saying they want to make it as painful as possible. The governor has agreed to the demands. What else is there to do? They want him out and are using the kids and teachers to do it and it is despicable Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The 'demands'. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/40084/Screenshot_from_2018-04-24_20-51-01-524899.JPG The ring leader of the activist group that is leading this strike is a straight socialist and has been hear numerous times saying they want to make it as painful as possible. The governor has agreed to the demands. What else is there to do? They want him out and are using the kids and teachers to do it and it is despicable It's middle of the pack. It's only last by the measurements they choose, and you'll note they choose different measures in different states, so there are 8-10 states where the same unions say they're 'dead last'. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 10:02:50 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Socialism in one sentence. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They said the average pay for a teacher in Colorado is $48,000/year. When the 1000sqft shack down the street sold for $350,000 maybe it is time to give them a raise. I know the district in my area has a hell of a time hiring teachers because at what they pay, the teachers can't afford to live here. So you get the bottom of the barrel teachers and then everyone complains how shitty public education is. I don't know what the answer is, but the current system isn't working. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 10:03:08 PM EST
[#21]
I work right across the street from the capitol. I’m getting real tired of these redfored fools.
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Posted: 4/24/2018 10:05:30 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tucson's Catalina Foothills teachers go out Thursday. My kids were fine with it, til I told them it'd mean staying in school into June. PS I don't trust those numbers. One thing happened in 2008 crash-- the automatic seniority raises got short circuited. You can stay near the bottom of the pay scale for 6-8 years. And AZ ranks 48th out of 50 states in per pupil spending. I can't say I'm proud of that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Average teacher pay in Arizona is about $48,000. Average classroom spending in Arizona is about $150,000. Where does the extra $100,000 go, and how much more is needed? PS I don't trust those numbers. One thing happened in 2008 crash-- the automatic seniority raises got short circuited. You can stay near the bottom of the pay scale for 6-8 years. And AZ ranks 48th out of 50 states in per pupil spending. I can't say I'm proud of that. Kharn |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 10:06:30 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It comes from folks who make assumptions based on the ridiculous pay administration gets. It's PUBLIC RECORD. https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_az.htm#25-0000 They run the young teachers out because they're young, cute, and at the bottom of the pay scale. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 10:09:39 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I talked to two of my daughter's teacher just now. Both of them are against this walk-out, but school is closed so there is nothing they can do. They were almost in tears with the entire situation and they understood my frustration of using the kids as pons in the situation. Regardless, if you wanted better pay you chose the wrong profession. I have been a paramedic for 12 years and I knew the money would suck. I should try walking out in the middle of a call |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 10:09:41 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait till you Arizona folks get to see all the memes from teachers during the walkout. I especially liked the ones where the teachers did a self survey and determined they worked 60 hours a week and claim even with the Summer months off, this makes them work much harder than the rest of us. Kharn |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 10:13:31 PM EST
[#26]
My SO teaches at a charter school and has her teaching certificate. The pay is equal to what teachers get in the Greenville school district.
I support a pay increase, school is not like what you or I or many of us posting here remember it as anymore. The kids are fucking hooligans with very little parental guidance. The pay is shit and the hours and personal money spent on classroom supplies is fucking ridiculous. I subsidize her classroom and in essence her ability to even teach. I have no idea how a single woman could swing it on the take home pay after rent and groceries. I don't care if they get summers off, that is a BS excuse when you total up the actual hours spent working during the school year, the continuing education classes etc. The $ per hour comes out ridiculously low for a 4 year degree and required student teaching. Administrators making well into the 6 figure range for basically doing very little is a big part of the problem. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 10:13:52 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Remind me about fall recess, thanksgiving, Christmas, winter break, spring break, and every federal/state holiday plus every weekend off? The breaks/holidays alone (here at least) are 1.5 months of time off. Plus 3 months of summer. Average teacher time is 182 days worked, compared to 240+ for regular FT employees. If we argue, argue with facts. Maybe she teaches in Japan or something. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 10:14:58 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would you people do some research? It's PUBLIC RECORD. https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_az.htm#25-0000 They run the young teachers out because they're young, cute, and at the bottom of the pay scale. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It comes from folks who make assumptions based on the ridiculous pay administration gets. It's PUBLIC RECORD. https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_az.htm#25-0000 They run the young teachers out because they're young, cute, and at the bottom of the pay scale. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 10:19:40 PM EST
[#29]
This is a political stunt thats gonna backfire.
SUSD where my son attends are driving lexus, mercedes, or at least nicer new cars. I call bullshat on all this. Working 9 months per year, every imaginable holiday, pensions, f red for ed. They need a maxi pad not a raise. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 10:20:03 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. It isn't. It's middle of the pack. It's only last by the measurements they choose, and you'll note they choose different measures in different states, so there are 8-10 states where the same unions say they're 'dead last'. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The 'demands'. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/40084/Screenshot_from_2018-04-24_20-51-01-524899.JPG The ring leader of the activist group that is leading this strike is a straight socialist and has been hear numerous times saying they want to make it as painful as possible. The governor has agreed to the demands. What else is there to do? They want him out and are using the kids and teachers to do it and it is despicable It's middle of the pack. It's only last by the measurements they choose, and you'll note they choose different measures in different states, so there are 8-10 states where the same unions say they're 'dead last'. On a scale of 0-500, Arizona scores 282. That is tied for 25th. Dead smack middle of the pack. (PR and DC are in here also, so it's out of 52) It is also dead smack exactly the National Average. The high is 297 (Mass), the low is 225 (PR), second lowest is 266(DC), followed by Louisiana (267) as the lowest actual state. https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/profiles/stateprofile/overview/AZ?cti=PgTab_ScoreComparisons&chort=2&sub=MAT&sj=AZ&fs=Grade&st=MN&year=2017R3&sg=Gender%3A+Male+vs.+Female&sgv=Difference&ts=Single+Year&tss=2015R3-2017R3&sfj=NP  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 10:22:58 PM EST
[#31]
My kid in Deer Valley school district is off starting Thursday.
My kid in a Great Hearts charter school is going to be in class. Charter schools 100% better. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 10:25:00 PM EST
[#32]
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Doesn't that result in loss of family income while still paying for schools? Must be nice to be able to swing guns, McMansion, new trucks, and good burbon on a single income. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Homeschool. Must be nice to be able to swing guns, McMansion, new trucks, and good burbon on a single income. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 10:29:26 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How dare people ask to be paid more! |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 10:33:58 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And then go on strike AFTER the governor promises the 20% raise they asked for. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How dare people ask to be paid more! |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 10:34:45 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It requires sacrifices, and you have to decide how high "sending my kids to government education camp everyday" ranks on your list of priorities. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Homeschool. Must be nice to be able to swing guns, McMansion, new trucks, and good burbon on a single income. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 10:45:41 PM EST
[#36]
I'm of the mindset that if those teachers are planning to not be there Thursday, they can clean out their fucking desks Wednesday afternoon, because they're done here. I'd burn this whole thing down.
I don't have kids, but still. As governor, I'm not going to let these teachers fuck around with all these parents' schedules, or with not showing up for work. If you want to play chicken with me, you're going to lose. Gov. Ducey already agreed to give them a 20% pay bump within 24 months. They chose that profession, they knew the compensation, and if they blow off a day at work for a political reason, they should be fired. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 10:51:30 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm of the mindset that if those teachers are planning to not be there Thursday, they can clean out their fucking desks Wednesday afternoon, because they're done here. I'd burn this whole thing down. I don't have kids, but still. As governor, I'm not going to let these teachers fuck around with all these parents' schedules, or with not showing up for work. If you want to play chicken with me, you're going to lose. Gov. Ducey already agreed to give them a 20% pay bump within 24 months. They chose that profession, they knew the compensation, and if they blow off a day at work for a political reason, they should be fired. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 10:53:08 PM EST
[#38]
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And the legislation sits on it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How dare people ask to be paid more! The dumbass teachers are being made fools of to advance a political attack on the Republican governor. Lets be honest. At the university, how many of your peers were dumber or less academic than the education majors? |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 10:55:16 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bullshit. The dumbass teachers are being made fools of to advance a political attack on the Republican governor. Lets be honest. At the university, how many of your peers were dumber or less academic than the education majors? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How dare people ask to be paid more! The dumbass teachers are being made fools of to advance a political attack on the Republican governor. Lets be honest. At the university, how many of your peers were dumber or less academic than the education majors? At my wife's? I can't say. She always kept a 4.0, and would drop classes with plans to retake them if she couldn't get an "A" at that time. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 10:59:22 PM EST
[#40]
I have no issue with someone who wants a higher paying job. Ask for what you want. Be an adult.
What I do have issue with is signing a contract last year, and deciding that you no longer like the terms and are going to walk out. My solution would be very simple. I would fire them all. They don't want to sign a new contract offer and return next year? No problem. Walk out after getting a 20% increase offered? Fuck off and die. ZFG. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 11:00:08 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Homeschool. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 11:02:45 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At my "university" all I noticed was my fellow diesel techs. At my wife's? I can't say. She always kept a 4.0, and would drop classes with plans to retake them if she couldn't get an "A" at that time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How dare people ask to be paid more! The dumbass teachers are being made fools of to advance a political attack on the Republican governor. Lets be honest. At the university, how many of your peers were dumber or less academic than the education majors? At my wife's? I can't say. She always kept a 4.0, and would drop classes with plans to retake them if she couldn't get an "A" at that time. If they want to negotiate a better contract they need to do it in the summer when they renew contracts and tell them they will not be renewing until they get the terms. But instead they are strong arming people into this, it is bullshit and I dont agree with it. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 11:05:46 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The highlighted in red bit is the biggest reason why teachers burn out around here. Parents only view teachers as overpaid baby sitters. Parents don't care what is being taught, as long as someone is watching their kids while they are at work. Sadly, even as a Process Coordinator, my wife can count on one hand the number of parents who are actively involved in their children's education, out of over a hundred case files she manages. Shame on the parents of Missouri, and probably America, for their lack of involvement in their children's education. It's a movement funded to push our current governor out of office. It's crazy listening to these people say "20% is not enough.. Plus where are you even going to get the money for it?" At that point it's like... Why in the Fuck are those teachers even standing out there if they are going to turn down that raise and bitch about where that money would come from. They are being coached, and played. AZ has a bad public education record. People don't take into account the immigration and the Indian reservation situations we have though. The schools on the res (a large chunk of AZ) do whatever they want. A lot of schools take in illegals, because they have to. The language and cultural barriers hem kids up from being successful. The whole thing is just a mess. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 11:07:27 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At my "university" all I noticed was my fellow diesel techs. At my wife's? I can't say. She always kept a 4.0, and would drop classes with plans to retake them if she couldn't get an "A" at that time. How do they even consider that to be possible? I know the Arizona Constitution has some big words in it, but they aren't that hard to cipher out by context. Red for Ed. Exactly. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 11:11:54 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I definitely would like to find a way to pay them more, but turning down a 20% pay raise really shows their colors. It's a movement funded to push our current governor out of office. It's crazy listening to these people say "20% is not enough.. Plus where are you even going to get the money for it?" At that point it's like... Why in the Fuck are those teachers even standing out there if they are going to turn down that raise and bitch about where that money would come from. They are being coached, and played. AZ has a bad public education record. People don't take into account the immigration and the Indian reservation situations we have though. The schools on the res (a large chunk of AZ) do whatever they want. A lot of schools take in illegals, because they have to. The language and cultural barriers hem kids up from being successful. The whole thing is just a mess. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 11:13:06 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was telling my FIL last night they should just fire them wholesale. We have two kids in HUSD. Just to level set you guys, my son (8th grade) has had an iPad for a couple years now through the school and my daughter’s (2nd grade) school all have those new smartboards. They’re not hurting for funds, they’re just wasteful. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 11:18:04 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How will the teachers tell them to Google the answers for the standardised tests they're all supposed to teach in the exact same manner without computers that make teachers nearly irrelevant? |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 11:22:25 PM EST
[#48]
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Its going on in KY too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is this a nation wide thing? They were talking about this on our local news today. No way these ‘movements’ are organic. Someone somewhere is community organizing this shit |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 11:24:35 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's kinda sexy how you and others ignore the bit about how parents, as a whole, GD outliers excluded, treat the public school system as baby sitters, and have little to no involvement in the process. I'm coming at it from a job standpoint. You get paid to show up to work, and if you don't perform, or flat out don't show up, there goes your job. Plus, them turning down that raise truly shows the motive of this movement is to push our governor out of office. Money is being funneled through these teachers unions to push the governor out. |
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Posted: 4/24/2018 11:25:39 PM EST
[#50]
Just legalize pot to “save the schools”
Hundreds of millions in taxes collected on that in CO and little to show for it. |
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